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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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9676941 No.9676941 [Reply] [Original]

Would you say that Shirou is a good protagonist?

>> No.9676950

that guy looks weird

is he from an amateur VN or something

>> No.9676952

Would you say THIS is a good protaganist?

*whips out dick*

>> No.9676960

>>9676950

He's from a VN called Fate/stay night. It got a lot of action, drama, power level shit, cooking and some sex here and there. Stuff that appeals to teenagers but you might like it. Give it a try.

>> No.9676984
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9676984

>>9676941
He's a much better protagonist after he grows up.

>> No.9677422

No of course

He's fucking anonymous

>> No.9677456
File: 68 KB, 550x550, 1317514425793.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9677456

I absolutely hated Shirou when I started reading Fate. Hated. With a blind passion that could only be rivaled if he had murdered someone close to me. I actually stopped reading after I finished the Fate route because I was afraid I would end up hating the entire work just because of him. It didn't get much better in UBW (aren't you going to take off your thigh-highs, Rin? FUCKING SHIROU).

Something did start to change in UBW though. Maybe it was during the fight with with archer, I don't know. I took another lengthy break after UBW. By the end of Heaven's Feel... I think I actually came to like him a lot. I could spend hours writing all sorts of shit about my feelings for Shirou, I'm not, because it's probably not safe for my sanity. I consider my feelings for him "complicated" right now. But is he a good protagonist? My personal opinion would be yes. There's not been many other characters that can make me feel all the things he made me feel. Maybe it's some kind of Stockholm syndrome, I dunno, but in my eyes he is an amazing protagonist.

I remember making a comment to myself sometime during the Fate route; "I wish Archer were the protagonist".

>> No.9677644

Only in HF.

>> No.9677649

>>9676960
Why are responding to a troll?

>> No.9677702

He's not a better protagonist than Shiki, and he's full of so much goddamn plot armor he's not even visible behind it.

However he's flawed, and can be related to...so...Yeah, I guess.

>> No.9677714

>>9677456
>>9677644
Nasu pretty much explained it during the extra hot springs scene.

Fate and UBW are the dilemmas that the world presents to all sacrificing, self hating Shirou. Heavens Feel is the answer on how he should respond to those questions.
Even though all the routes are seperate "timelines" in nasuverse, we still see Shirou grow as a character along them, hence the forced playing order.

In Fate he is the spitting image of your generic shounen hero, goody two shoes.
In UBW he confronts his problems, but decides the road he's walking down is still the right path.
In HF he is presented with the ultimate choice between his ideals and saving the person he loves the most. He confronts his inner devils and grows to adulthood.

I think Baldr Sky's Kou would be maybe the closest protagonist relatable to Shirou with the way how the routes / his memory loss is executed in the game.
Another would perhaps be Asairo's Sasamaru who is fulltime "Shinji, let me clean up the dojo for you" type character for almost the entire game.

>> No.9677730

>>9677714
well, the whole point of Asairo is that there's kindness in every person and that it ultimately gets repaid in kind. The protagonist fit the game's theme perfectly.

>> No.9679420

>>9677714
>In HF he is presented with the ultimate choice between his ideals and saving the person he loves the most.
>between his ideals and saving the person he loves
But that's wrong. It was never a choice between his ideals and love. It was not a choice between being a superhero and not being one.
A major part of HF was how neither choice presented in the park was acceptable in terms of his ideal.

>> No.9679428

>He's not a better protagonist than Shiki, and he's full of so much goddamn plot armor he's not even visible behind it.

Bad ends

>> No.9679441

>>9677714
That would have been a great concept if the writing during Fate and UBW wasn't so bad.

>> No.9679459

Cookie cutter protag.

>> No.9679460

I like him. He's overly kind and stupid to a fault, which makes him work as a hero. Meaning that you'd have to be really stupid to try and play hero for the sake of some vague sense of justice.

>> No.9679472

>>9677714
If Nasu said that he got his own game wrong. A goody two shoes wouldn't talk about letting the past go so easily in relation to Saber's goals and the people he decided to abandon. UBW was more about not regretting because at the time the actions were what you believed in just like Fate than about choosing the right path. HF also never gave the impression that it invalidated UBW's conclusion. It was a different idea entirely.

>> No.9679481

>>9679472
Why would you spoiler tags to actually hide spoiler text? Why aren't you misusing it like everybody else?

>> No.9679482

His stupidity is almost hilarious. Especially his relationship with Shinji made me question the writing. It's pretty obvious how he hates Shirou, yet Shirou considers him as a close friend. But it's a long time since I played it, maybe it gets explained somwhere.

>> No.9679492

>>9677730
The good thing of Sasamaru is that he would beat anyone who damaged his shikunshi into a pulp.
It took Shirou a lot to come to that stage, sacrificing himself and confronting everyone else for one person.

>> No.9679494
File: 478 KB, 1021x575, ichijou.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9679494

Oh hi, I just upgraded your Shirou.

>> No.9679515

Let's talk about how FSN is a big rip-off of Utena.

Shirou = Utena/Dio
Their ideal is pretty much the same, even the way they both received it is similar.
Both dreams of becoming a hero/prince (same thing in their context), both are broken to some extent.

Archer = Akio
Again really obvious, they even look alike.
The whole Akio/Dio relationship is basically Archer/Shirou, except Akio want to get back to his young day while Archer just want to erase himself.
In this way Akio also plays the role of Zouken.

Anthy = Sakura
Both are the cursed heroines who shouldn't be saved, everyone and their mother tell Shirou/Utena that they shouldn't try to save them but they try to do so anyways.
Both Anthy and Sakura betray the hero at some point and even hurt them but in the end Shirou/Utena don't waver and save them.

Grail = Power to revolutionize the world
Miraculous power that is supposed to be able to realize any wishes but is actually cursed.

>> No.9679523

>>9679515
>but is actually cursed
Was the power to revolutionize the world cursed?
the series describes it always as something incredibly beautiful, even in the last cour. The power of miracles, a shiny place, a good memory...

>> No.9679529

>>9679523
Remember the storm of sword?
Yeah it was cursed, that's why Akio wanted to use the sword of someone else too.

Talking about the storm of sword, the imagery is really similar to UBW/GoB
There is also a scene with Anthy (who is cursed by that) has a lot of swords that rip her off from the inside.

Basically lolNasu

>> No.9679528

Neo-/jp/ acts like a moron whenever the discussion of F/SN comes up, but that aside, yeah, I think he's a good protagonist. He is developed well, and we get to see many facets of his personality.

>> No.9679530

>>9679529
>Remember the storm of sword?
the storm of sword were the curses of mankind, not the power to revolutionize the world.
The fact that they didn't manage to get the power is the reason the swords appeared.

>> No.9679535

>>9679530
It cursed the power.
Same thing as Avenger with the grail.
The grail itself wasn't cursed to begin with
Actually the curses themselves are pretty much the same.

>> No.9679536

Why all TM characters are stolen from Love hina?

>> No.9679537
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9679537

All men should be eliminated from Japanese entertainment.

I'm tired of seeing anime/manga/VNs being sullied with the presence of males.

>> No.9679539

>>9679537
Fuck off to >>>/c/ and >>>/u/

>> No.9679545

>>9679535
but it's different fundamentally
Utena: fail yo obtain the power->curses catch up->bad end
FSN: obtain the grail->it's cursed->bad end
There's the fundamental difference that the power of miracles is NOT cursed by itself, and in fact is how you free Anthy from her curse.

>> No.9679575
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9679575

No I can't say that, playing as him caused me great pain and hate towards whole framchise.

>> No.9679582

>>9679537
who will give them the dick then?

>> No.9679587

>>9679537
>>9679582
replace the males with futas

>> No.9679600

>>9679592
>>9679587
>>9679537

Faggots.

>> No.9679592

>>9679582
Nobody needs to be giving anyone “the dick”.

>> No.9679601

>>9679545
No it's not different at all
Akio was just using a proxy (Anthy) to catch all the curse.
It's the power itself that is cursed.

>> No.9679607

>>9679601
> the power itself
Again, not the power, the power was pure and clean. And Anthy accepted the curses as punishment.
Not to mention the power worked as expected and Utena was able to revolutionize Anthy's life, making her leave the academy.

>> No.9679614

>>9679600
Fuck off back to /a/.

>> No.9679640

>>9679607
It was Dio, or rather the existence of the prince who save everyone, who was cursed, the power was clean as you say because Anthy was used as proxy
Which is why the swords targeted Utena when Anthy was freed, because she was the new Dio

And why do you stop at such details? When someone copy a story he will obviously change a thing or two.
There is more than enough resemblances to show something happened.

>> No.9679676

>>9676941
I couldn't really like that guy. in Fate he was obnoxiously retarded. I just couldn't stand his constant "I'm a man I should be the one doing the fighting", when he clearly belonged to the kitchen.

In UBW at least he drops that obnoxious attitude, except his future counterpart while being cool and all was still utterly stupid. Call it my opinion, but to my he's just an emo that wants to die, because reality isn't the way he expected it to be. Fucking grow a spine, dork.

Heaven's feel it's probably where he becomes better. We neither see his retarded logic, nor his disturbing angst. Maybe it's because after that many hours of playing I developed an immunity, but anyway at that point he didn't feel that bad anymore. Except... he didn't really become a likable character either.

TL;DR Not really.

>> No.9679692
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9679692

KERRY WASA

>> No.9679717

>>9679676

>Call it my opinion, but to my he's just an emo that wants to die, because reality isn't the way he expected it to be. Fucking grow a spine, dork.
>stuck in eternal torture
>deal with it
>this is what people actually think

>> No.9679749

>>9679460

Nasu propaganda got another one.

>> No.9679753

>>9679472
>HF also never gave the impression that it invalidated UBW's conclusion. It was a different idea entirely.
Indeed. Personally I like to believe that if the world were to shit on Shirou after UBW, and Rin were to be thrown into a pinch, Shirou would give it his all to protect her until the end like with Sakura in HF.

In the end, UBW doesn't invalidate HF's character progression in anyway. HF just had dilemma's that weren't presented in UBW outside of in theory.

>> No.9679786

>>9679717
It's only a torture because he sees it that way. I don't see the other servants bitching like he does.
In the end he got the chance to be a hero eternally beyond time, that's what he fucking wanted, but hey, being a hero it's not what he thought it would be, so he doesn't like it anymore and wants to kill himself. What a pussy.

>> No.9679793

I actually really liked Shiro. Sure, I wanted to punch him the whole time he was all like "Saber, even though you're one of the strongest heroes ever, you're still a woman so you should let me fight in your place!!!!!!!!" all during Fate, but I still found him to be an enjoyable protagonist.

>> No.9679808

I was not overly fond of him in HF. I felt like he abandoned everything about himself. Sure he was basically assembled from stolen pieces of other people, but he ran with it, had a tangible goal to struggle for, and was happy. UBW route was best.

>> No.9679812

>>9679786

He wants to kill himself because he can't just get up and walk away. Are you retarded or something?

>> No.9679821

>>9679786

Yes, usually if people find out what they wanted to be wasn't what they thought it'd be they either deal with it or go on and do something else. Not really an option for servants.

>> No.9679846

>>9679812
I never said otherwise. But what does it change? Walking away from immortality means chosing death anyway.
And why can't he just accept his role as a servant and hero of legends like everyone else?

>> No.9679864

>>9679846
Because it was the complete opposite of what he wanted. He wants to save as many lives as possible and avert tragedies and difficulties, but his job is to go in after they start and murder the fuck out of everyone, then leave the situation completely unresolved.

>> No.9679869

I love Shirou. There's something about him that just draws and attracts me.

His obfuscating stupidity is charming. His utter devotion to justice is admirable, and he is a great cook. I love him, and think he is one of the greatest protagonists to ever exist. Heroes of justice are just my thing, I guess.

I don't give a single fuck if you disagree.

>> No.9679871

>>9679812
What's the difference with any other suicide? They kill themselves because they have no other way to escape the sad situation they live in.

>> No.9679899

>>9679786
>that's what he fucking wanted
The place he ended up at was pretty much the opposite of his ideal.
He wanted to save everyone and for everyone to be happy and able to smile.
Where he ended up at people were always suffering and no one could smile. It was described as nothing but the ugliest sides of mankind.

>but hey, being a hero it's not what he thought it would be, so he doesn't like it anymore and wants to kill himself. What a pussy.
What he wants to do is mainly to correct a mistake. A hero was born that should never have been born.
Disregarding what people could praise as hero or not, the term is still pretty subjective. In the end the "hero" that Emiya became was an enemy to Emiya's ideal. The justice of the counter force directly conflicts with Emiya's justice.

Emiya wanted to save everyone, and disregarding the infinite number of people he saved he was still forced to kill an infinite number of people.
Such a "hero", should never have been born. He was never an ally of that "justice". Emiya Shirou dedicated his entire life for his ideal, and he ended up in a hell working against it, for eternity.

>> No.9679932

>>9679899
But is it really so? Or is it that Shirou see it that way because of his retarded ideals?

Does Saber think herself as an enemy of justice? Does she believe that she's a hero that should never exist and all that shit that angsty shirou thinks?

>> No.9679937

>>9679932
Saber wishes she never existed because she recognises that her people deserve a better king. Bad comparison.

>> No.9679943

>>9679786

Kiritsugu would've been happier as a Counter Guardian because he'd know the other side of the scale is much heavier than the one's he's killing.
But Shirou's ideal is not the same as Kiritsugu's rationalization. Shirou is not happy with killing one to save ten, not slightly. If Shirou cannot save every last person, he suffers. He understands it's an impossible pipe dream, but persists anyway.
Counter Guardian EMIYA is now eternally in a situation where he has to kill people who cannot be saved, for eternity.

>> No.9679973

>>9679937
Saber isn't an idiot that thinks she can solve things by killing herself.
In spite of her pain she fights for what she believes is the way to honor her duties of King towards her people.

>> No.9679970

>>9679932
What? Of course it's subjective.
Justice is a highly subjective term.

It's Emiya who thinks such a hero should never have been born because it directly conflicts with that hero's ideal and everything it ever worked for.

Also, Saber never actually became a counter guardian as she gave up on the grail.

>> No.9679981

>>9679973
And she decided that the best way to honor that duty was to step down as king, and the only way for her to do that was to erase herself from the past. It takes multiple dickings to get rid of that idea, and even that would not have been necessary if she listened to the other kings, but nope. She wanted to erase herself.

>> No.9679983

>>9679970
Okay then I think we've nailed the problem.
It's precisely because of his retared idealistic view that I dislike him.

Ironically, Archer himself hates his past self for his idealistic view. So he can't really complain.

>> No.9679999

>>9679983
He hates the way he thought because it got him into that loathesome situation. He hates himself, so the naive version of him that holds the secrets of his demise is someone he is obliged to hate.

>> No.9680064

>>9679494
MY WIFE

>> No.9680132

Kiritsugu > Shirou

>> No.9680146

>>9680132
Kiritsugu would kill 200 people to save 201, Shirou would save everyone, and would be happy to die in the process. It's two sides of the same insanity coin. Kiritsugu was a shitty father, and his son ended up just as crazy as he was.

>> No.9680153

>>9679983
>Ironically, Archer himself hates his past self for his idealistic view. So he can't really complain.
It's actually not as easy as to say he hates himself for his idealistic view.

In fact, Archer loves his ideal deeply, and adores his younger self who embraces it so. In no way does he hate that.
Which only makes it all the more complicated given how he hates the results and feels that it's a mistake that has to be corrected.

>> No.9680162

>>9680146
The important part of Shirou's save everyone mentality is he has no appreciation for compromise toward the greater good. Your example of his choice would have been better posed as “Shirou would try to save everyone even if it meant all 401 would die if he failed.”

>> No.9680183

>>9680162
I appreciate that, but his self-destructive mentality is just crazy. What good does it do him to same 401 people if it gets him killed? It's similar to Kiritsugu's mentality, but he just considers himself the only worthwhile sacrifice. For Fate and UBW anyway. Like the way he jumps in front of Saber to shield her from Berserker. If it weren't for Avalon he'd be dead and Saber would have disappeared anyway.

>> No.9680236

>>9679808
I don't remember HF well, but I feel it was something more subtle than just ignoring everything he believed in.

>> No.9680245

>>9680183
>What good does it do him
It aligns with his goals.

>> No.9680279

>>9680245
And then he's dead. He can't save anymore people. I'm not saying he's a bad character. I love him as a character, but he's still crazy. It's why his character shift in HF is such a big thing. It may be an "alternate universe" or whatever the kids are calling it these days, but it flows so nicely from Fate and UBW as character development. I suppose in the end he still dies, sort of, but he does it to save people he cares about, it's still self-destructive, but it feels less indiscriminate.

>> No.9680316

>>9680279
You're assuming that he cares if he dies. It's a narrow-minded belief born from meaningless instinct that self-preservation is necessarily the priority.

>> No.9680335

>>9680316
Yeah, but he can't save any more people if he's dead. I realize he's got ridiculous self-destructive beliefs born from survivor's guilt, but even if his highest priority is "saving other people" he can't do that if he's dead.

>> No.9680366

>>9680335
Agreed, but even then there's room for argument. The entire idea was to refuse to accept even one death. If the only chance of that happening in the current situation is to die, he's not necessarily acting illogically. Honestly I think you're missing the point by looking at the big picture.

>> No.9680410

It's funny, because at times you're given choices to appeal to reason and hold back on being so absurdly self-sacrificial. It's largely after Fate but there are times within that route as well, if I recall.

Shirou just has a shitload of plot armor and is a nuisance, not trusting in his supernatural ally and tossing himself around like a meat shield. Characters like Ilya hold back just because. Archer is Shirou --why wasn't he following this instinct to save everyone? He's disillusioned from being a "cleaner" so he has it under control?

>> No.9680412

>>9680279
This anon is right. Shirou just can't get in his mind that he is the king inside a chessboard.

The shirou of the present would use the King to protect the Queen, because the king is a man and must save his bitch. He's too retarded to understand that if the King is defeated so does the Queen.

The Shirou of the future is only slightly better. He doesn't understand that sacrifices are unavoidable and that he should rather use his powers to minimize the damages as much as possible. Unable to accept that he decides to eliminate himself, the King, but that only means that no one will be there to minimize the damage anymore thus resulting in even more casualties.

>> No.9680425

>>9680412
He doesn't have to be smart to be consistent.

>> No.9680452

>>9680366
>>9680425
No, I get what you're saying, I think. Shirou feels that if he compromises and bargains with people's lives then it's worse then trying to save them all and failing, everyone else dying and him dying. Right?

>> No.9680457

>>9680412
>He's too retarded to understand that if the King is defeated so does the Queen.
Shirou understands that's the case. He is using twisted logic to justifying doing stupid things. It's not something a retarded person would manage to do, in most of Shirou's insanity cases at the very least.

>> No.9680469
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9680469

>Kiritsugu spends his whole life fucking up for his shitty ideals
>before he dies he tells his son as you grow older you realize that it's impossible to still call yourself a hero
>lel im gonna be a hero 2 dad and follow my misguided ideals xD

>> No.9680477

>>9680469
If Kiritsugu was intelligent he would have taught him important lessons such as
>the church is EVIL
>the priest in this church is EVIL AS SIN

>> No.9680478

>>9680469
I do not see why everyone wants to give him shit for this. He wanted to do what his dad failed to do and become a superhero. Next you are going to start talking shit about Batman.

>> No.9680489

>>9680452
>Right?
No. His logic tree is quite easy to follow actually.
1. People dying without you trying anything? Unacceptable.
2. People dying with you trying everything? Unacceptable.
3. Some people saved with some people sacrificed? Unacceptable.
4. Trying to save people and everyone are saved? The only option.

It's little about what's better or worse. It's about what choices he feels he even has to begin with. And it's not as if he doesn't realize how implausible those options really are, cause he knew that from the start.

>> No.9680488

>>9680452
I don't think the thought even occurred to him that often. Shirou's the kind of person to just do things without doubts. His logic goes like this:
How to save? -> have to do something stupid -> do something stupid

Whether he lives or dies or whether things don't go the way he wants isn't important, because the choice was something he believed in. Basically what he was talking about in Fate. There's a lot of strange things going on in his head that aren't always obvious.

>> No.9680499

>>9680478
If actually persisted in his retarded ideals like Vash the Stampede for example or the whole cast from Gurren Lagann I'd actually respect him.

I don't respect him because first he decides to follow a retarded ideal and then once he realizes he can't possibly achieve that ideal instead of coming to terms to that, he decides he'd rather disappear.

>> No.9680504

>>9680477
>the church is EVIL
I don't think Kiritsugu thought the church was evil. Heck, the majority of the people he himself hunted were people or things that were branded as heretics anyway.

But yeah, he could have given the heads up on old Kotomine. But I suppose he thought it wouldn't matter anymore as Kotomine wasn't actually a magus and given how Tokiomi was gone and the grail wars supposedly no more.

>> No.9680511

>>9680499
Except that's not the whole story. As Archer in UBW he remembered why he wasn't so wrong. And don't forget the UBW epilogue where it said Archer would probably forget that this ever happened.

>> No.9680516

>>9680499
>then once he realizes he can't possibly achieve that ideal instead of coming to terms to that, he decides he'd rather disappear.
That's not it though. It's when he realized that him striving for his ideal was counter-productive to his ideal that he wanted to correct that mistake.

And he persisted in striving towards his ideal for an entire eternity before realizing that fact.

>> No.9680525

>>9680511
Epilogue? Are we talking about the same movie?

>> No.9680529

>>9680511
>And don't forget the UBW epilogue where it said Archer would probably forget that this ever happened
>probably
Yeah. The cruel part is that it's practically proven that he does forget it as it is heavily implied that the UBW end has already happened an infinite number of times already.

>> No.9680538
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9680538

>>9680525

>> No.9680545

>>9680525
We're not talking about the movie, but the VN route. It shows the fight between Archer and Shirou from Archer's perspective.

>>9680529
Honestly I wonder if he wasn't always being reborn in the same place? Who else would remember Shirou as a hero except for Rin, and who else would have the gem that brought him back to life except for Rin? Though I don't really understand the whole Servant logic.

>> No.9680583

>>9680545
The many people he saved in the future regards him as a hero. But frankly he doesn't need to be considered a hero by anyone given how he made a contract to be a counter guardian which is enough to make him potentially summon-able.

But it's also pretty moot. Emiya is not considered a hero in the present and thus can't be summoned as a hero.
In fact, as a general rule no one can summon anything from the future whatsoever, hero or no hero, due to the fact that the present lacks a catalyst to tie the target to the present time.

The pendant can't summon EMIYA because no such spirit exists (yet) and thus the pendant has no such connection with said spirit.
However, in the future a hero named EMIYA did exist, and that hero had a pendant with a connection to a girl in the past named Rin who had used it to save his life once.

In short the pendant functions as a reverse-catalyst. It is less the fact that Rin's pendant has a connection to Archer and more the case that Archer's pendant has a connection to Rin.
And interestingly enough, for this sole reason practically no one other than Rin can potentially summon EMIYA due to Archer lacking a catalyst connecting to them.

>> No.9680596

>>9680516
That's retarded, erasing himself wouldn't have solved a damn thing. That'd just mean another servant would be summoned in his place.
In the end the only person that would have benefited from that would have been his future self.

>> No.9680612

>>9680583
If that's the case, doesn't that mean that basically all of Archer's development came from an eternal repeat of UBW?

>> No.9680634

>>9680612
That doesn't make sense. Servants clearly remember all the battles they have fought before. If the Archer we see repeated UBW multiple times, then Saber should have also repeated that and remember Archer.

>> No.9680644

>>9680634
I'm confused. Archer referenced his unclear memory of the past many times during the fight. He also stated that he'll probably forget everything he learned from watching Shirou. I also somehow got the impression that he didn't even know he was Shirou clearly early in the game, but I'm not too sure about that.

>> No.9680650

I rather like Shirou.
His determination is something I admire.
His "angst" done in more of a tasteful way than some others.
I don't really have much against him, well aside from S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-T-T-T-T-UTTERING so much during H-Scenes.

>> No.9680648

>>9680644
But just the same he remembered everything from his prior battles becaused the memories attached themselves to his tracing abilities, or at leaast that is what I got. I also assumed he was lying about the memory loss.

>> No.9680656

>>9680596
Did you mean counter guardian or did you mean servant as for the heaven's feel ritual?

In either case, yeah, another guardian would just be summoned in his place, but it doesn't change the fact that he wants no part in it.
As a guardian he is killing an infinite number of people, in the hells born from the ugliest side of man.

What he wanted was for everyone to be saved. And that's what he would do if he were capable of doing so, in theory even if he had to oppose guardians to do so. Their very concept are threatening his ideal. Of course such a hero should never have been made.

>> No.9680667

>>9680634

Servants don't remember previous times they've been summoned. Sabre is the exception due to her rather unique circumstances.

>> No.9680673

>>9680634
>Servants clearly remember all the battles they have fought before.
They don't. Far from it. They can grasp pieces from it due to how the accumulated experiences of previous summons are still technically available to them.

But it's like a library with a never ending supply of books and with no index.
Or say, imagine doing a data search after a specific file stored in an HDD with infinite amounts of data.
Or a scrambled jigsaw puzzle with an infinite number of pieces.

The only reason Archer is able to somehow remember how it is to be a counter guardian is because how practically every errand as a counter guardian is the same, so the pieces sort of makes a coherent picture even if they are pieces from different puzzles.

>> No.9680677

>>9680650
Nasu's fault. I think he's embarrassed about writing sex.

>> No.9680820

He was alright. I loved the no natural magic talent thing, and the way he constantly trained.

>> No.9680839

Not bad, there are plenty of far worse protags out there.

>> No.9680851

>>9680820

To add, the only thing that bugs me is how fucking soft he is on Shinji. I know Shirou is just a good guy and all that but it's a personal pet peeve.

>> No.9680885
File: 617 KB, 4000x600, what a pleasant surprise meeting you here.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9680885

If you re-read F/SN you really see how surprisingly similar Shirou is to Archer.

>> No.9681132

I only liked shirou in UBW.

>> No.9681379

Horrible. The consequence of making your MC a nice idiot, throwing him into a heated situation powered by reckless determination, plot armour, and power ups, and justifying his idiocy by saying he's brain damaged. Didn't even feel struggle as he made his decision. It was always too obvious.

>> No.9682072

>>9680064
I hope you're talking about Ichijou, because Masamune is mine.

>> No.9684656 [DELETED] 

>>9681379
He really isn't that bad. Japanese communities often speaks of him as rather sharp. Mentally and conflicted or whatnot disregarded.

>> No.9684659

>>9681379
He really isn't that bad. Japanese communities often speaks of him as rather sharp. Mentally conflicted or whatnot disregarded.

>> No.9684699

>>9684659
>Japanese communities often speaks of him as rather sharp
Ahahaha no.
You obviously don't frequent them

>> No.9684717

I appreciated how well defined he was, as opposed to a generic audience stand-in. It made it much more interesting to try to understand him

>> No.9684779

>>9681379
You don't have a brain.

>> No.9687515

>>9684699
It's not as if they often speak of him, but in regards of him being dense or sharp, they tend to describe him more as sharp than not. He really isn't all that different from Archer.

Of course, for all it matters Japan have also had F/HA, and they didn't watch DEEN's adaptation before reading the actual thing. And they haven't had out of context screenshots from said adaptation with subs posted around ad nauseum.

>> No.9687529

>>9687515
I've yet to watch the DEEN's adaption and I wasn't really exposed that much to that meme.
I still think that Shirou is an idiot.

>> No.9687579

>>9687515
I often go to the TM threads in may for a quick laugh.
And they definitely think Shirou is a retard.
I wonder what place you visit to think they speak of him in another way.

Oh and the Deen adaptation of FSN sold in 30000 so yeah they definitely watched it

>> No.9687598

>>9687579
>so yeah they definitely watched it
Never implied anything else. But it wasn't their first exposure.
Even though there are plenty of people who doesn't watch anime on /jp/, DEEN's adaptation was still translated first. It's what the masses of /a/ watched first.

>> No.9687627

No he's a shitty faggot. TM FS subhuman fags will of course claim otherwise.

>> No.9687629

>>9687515

He's certainly sharp about some things- He's got mind's eye for crying out loud- but he's basically brain damaged in other areas. His perception of the world is so screwed up that he can't even identify obvious things like girls who have crushes on him coming to his house every goddamn day to cook for him. So essentially he's sharp when it comes to his ideal and fail in every other aspect of life.

>> No.9687634

Shirou is my Ideal as Archer is his.

>> No.9687641

>>9687629
Shirou doesn't think of himself as someone that should love. He also doesn't think that he is anyone that should be loved by anyone else.

It's basically related to the same things brought up in UBW with Rin and all. Shirou can't even find himself to do recreational activities for the sake of his own enjoyment.

If the topic is romance involving himself, he is oblivious. Or at the very least it is something he forces himself not to think about. It's not as if he is bad at reading other people, cause if you ignore the above mentioned he is actually proven to be quite the good people reader.

>> No.9687643

No, he's a faggot.

>> No.9687653

Shirou is actually your average normal high school student, that's why he's so incompetent as a magus.

>> No.9687655

>>9687579
>And they definitely think Shirou is a retard.
They just commonly joke about his approach in regards to relations with women. That is not the same as to say that they definitely think Shirou is a retard. Far from it.

They make jokes about one aspect of the character whose underlying reason is explained in the story. And then they acknowledge what he actually is good at.

He also regularly scores quite well for a male character on all those popularity polls for all they are worth even if he is always behind Archer.

I really can't see why one would get the impression they commonly refer to him as dense, exceptionally stupid or a retard. From what I have seen at least.

>> No.9687663

Kiritsugu didn't fail in his ideals. He saved a ton of fucking people throughout his life, killed a bunch of stupid dangerous magi, and fought to end wars in shit tier countries. Hell he would have even saved the fucking world if the grail wasn't angry manjew.

I love how people shit all over his ideal of sacrifice for the greater good, when in reality the world could use more people with that mindset. His actions helped ease the suffering of more people than most other characters in the Nasuverse, but lol he's a misguided moron because the grail he tried to use to save every single person in the world was corrupted and blew up a town.

>> No.9687693

>>9687663
He lost every single person he loved in the quest of saving people, this is why he failed.

>>
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