[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/jp/ - Otaku Culture

View post   
  [?]In ghost mode, only threads with non-archived posts will be shown
File: 35 KB, 848x480, katanah.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9652231 No.9652231[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Hey /jp/, /k/ here. What do you think is better? A katana or european swords?

>> No.9652239

A katana.

Katana = Meal cooked by iron chef
European sword = McDonalds

>> No.9652238

Like I'd admit anything from Europe is good...

>> No.9652241

>>9652231
Stupid question to /jp/.

>> No.9652240

I KILL BOTH WITH MY GUN

>> No.9652242

A gun

>> No.9652246

>>9652231
i got ur european sword right here
*whips out dik*

>> No.9652249

An american sword

>> No.9652252

>Hey guys what do you think is better a longbow or an Asian spear

>> No.9652255
File: 286 KB, 1472x1104, Samurai Duel.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9652255

They were made for two separate purposes.

Long sword for for thrusting/stabbing into open armor slots.

Katana for slicing/slashing cloth, fabric, and thin sheet metal.

Two different purposes for two different type of swords.

Any weeboo or weapon expert knows this.

>> No.9652260

>>9652249
Calm down amerifat.

>> No.9652261
File: 699 KB, 760x760, 1320692160040.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9652261

>> No.9652269

Katanas are folded thousands of times, the edge is sharp enough to have a drag coefficient of .0001.


They're just too fast and deadly in the hands of a master.

>> No.9652271

>>9652249
The only right answer. Forged by George Dubya Bush.

>> No.9652272

Just use magic.

>> No.9652278

2012 and this shit still guarantees replies!

>> No.9652280

A Persian scimitar could beat both, AT THE SAME TIME.

>> No.9652288

I've always wondered but did any two-handed swords actually exist in history or is that shit just in video games.

>> No.9652291

In the hands of a master? Katana, hands down. With proper technique, it cuts through almost anything.
In the hands of an amateur? European sword, no doubt about it. While a katana might be far superior in the hands of a master, just bashing things with it won't yield any decent results. Your average European medieval sword, on the other hand, was made so the average peasant can kill someone with it, rather than being specially made for elite troops.

>>9652239
I actually prefer McDonald's.

>> No.9652300
File: 53 KB, 429x340, sfdsf.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9652300

>>9652231
European

>> No.9652304

>>9652288
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longsword

>> No.9652316

>>9652291
No peasant conscript was ever going to get a sword. To expensive.
Swords were used by those who could afford them, like knights. They were definitely specifically made for elite troops.

>> No.9652323

>>9652280
We're not talking about fighting sandstorms here, bimbo.

>> No.9652324

>>9652316
Except knights weren't exactly elite troops as they are in video games. They're just peasants given a weapon and armor.

>> No.9652330

who the fuck cares spears > Everything

swords are a weapon for cowards

>> No.9652338

>>9652330
And you proved that point using a weapon that pokes people from a distance. You could have used a better example like fists or something.

>> No.9652334

>>9652330
Says the person promoting a sharp point on a long stick specifically made to hurt people from a safe distance.

>> No.9652340

A ruger straight outta da hood.

>> No.9652360

>>9652324
What? Knights were lords and landowners. They weren't "given" weapons and armor and horses, they bought their own stuff. They were most definitely the elite of medieval armies.

>> No.9652365

>>9652255
Except the rapier is more lethal.

The truth of the matter is samurai were like mongolians, they used bows on horseback. If they didn't own a horse, then they would fight with a spear or a bow. The sword was a side-arm, a weapon for self defense and harvesting heads. It was important because it was a weapon that could be used for self defense, dueling, and fighting, without being a weapon of war, making it appropriate to wear in cities and inside where there could be close quarters combat.

A bow was like an automatic sniper/assault rifle, a spear was like a tactical shotgun, and the katana was like a handgun/sidearm. You wouldn't see anyone toting around a shotgun or an assault rifle, but people carry handguns all the time.

>> No.9652372

>>9652365
Total War: Shogun II has lied to me!

>> No.9652375

>>9652334
>>9652338
When a swordsman is matched up against a weapon that is longer and therefore holds greater reach capabilities that swordsman’s chance of survival drops dramatically. Without the aid of a companion weapon, even a highly skilled swordsman finds it difficult to defeat lesser skilled opponents with longer- reaching weapons.

Swords simply suck you coward fucks..

>> No.9652389
File: 124 KB, 1280x720, 1342371664998.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9652389

Swords are lame, the wild west is much cooler!

>> No.9652400

There is a Japanese house code that states “Do not yearn for katanas and tantos created by famous masters. A katana or tanto worth 10,000 pieces can be defeated by 100 yari (spears) each costing a 100 pieces. It is better to purchase 100 spears and arm 100 spearmen, in this way you can defended yourself in time of war." (Toshikage Jushichikajo, 1480)

Swords simply suck

>> No.9652406

Yet during the height of the age of the Samurai, the bow, naginata, and spear were the main focus for war. The bow is found in the earliest history of Samurai warfare and the Yari-Samurai, elite spearmen, mounted or on foot, were among the highest valued warriors in a warlord’s army. The katana was more often used as a backup weapon and for personal ritualized dueling. In most cultures during the age of battlefield dueling, duels were fought on horseback with bows or lances. If the warrior lost either of those weapons, he then used his sword as a last ditch effort to save or take his life.

>> No.9652416

>>9652365
Also, there's a whole art to the quickdraw for katanas called iaido. You know what other weapon has quickdraws? The revolver, a weapon used for dueling and self defense and a weapon meant to be convenient and lethal, but not the best weapon in large scale war.

There's a reason why revolver toting cowboy movies copied samurai movies. Revolvers and katanas serve the same function or personal and convenient lethality.

Yes, there were some very large revolvers used by cavalry, but there were very big swords used by cavalry as well.

>> No.9652423

A spear, or even a lance of ten feet or less, can both cut and thrust like a sword and so deliver a variety of attacks without fear of immediate counterattack. For the swordsman to survive, he needs to close the distance on his opponent while trying to ward off thrusts and cuts from the attacking spear. The spearman need only keep attacking while retreating or circling a few steps if necessary. This is comparable to a man with an empty eighteenth-century musket fighting a ten-pace duel against a man with a colt revolver. Unless an act of God occurs, the musketeer is in for hard times.

>> No.9652426

The next problem is the issue of arch versus thrust. Everyone has seen a movie where the hapless spearman comes charging in with a stiff-armed thrust at the hero, who is always a swordsman, who jumps to the side and chops the oncoming spear in two. This is a perfect example of the mythological power of the arching sword stroke in its full absurdity. If the swordsman were to attempt a wasted motion like trying to cut the assaulting spear in two, it would be an ill-fated move for two reasons: it seriously exposes the swordsman to a counterattack, and it is an almost impossible cut to make. It is one thing to cut in two a shaft stuck firmly in the ground, it is another thing entirely to try and cut in two a free-floating shaft that deflects on impact.

>> No.9652483

>>9652426
That is just wrong.

You parry and deflect. If you can lodge your sword in the shaft even half an inch, you have the advantage in leverage, and you've compromised the structural integrity of the weapon. Does not apply to iron wrapped shafts obviously.

The spear wasn't a dueling weapon, and they did not really fight 1 on 1 with eachother. They could, but the spear was mean for organized formations. The naginata on the other hand is closer to a dueling weapon, but the techniques are also very different.

>> No.9652493

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bastard Sword" bullshit that's going on in the d20 system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.
I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.
Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.
Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.
Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected.
So what am I saying? Katanas are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for Katanas:
(One-Handed Exotic Weapon)
1d12 Damage
19-20 x4 Crit
+2 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork
(Two-Handed Exotic Weapon)
2d10 Damage
17-20 x4 Crit
+5 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork
Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Katanas in real life, don't you think?
tl;dr = Katanas need to do more damage in d20, see my new stat block.

>> No.9652500

>>9652375
Do you know what coward means?

>> No.9652501

>>9652365
Exactly.
Just like how the rapier was in Europe.

The Katana saw much more hand to hand combat in the post-fudel area.

There it flourished in duels ect. ect.

>> No.9652519

I bought a katana from a Chinese store in New York City earlier this year and the blade fell off the hilt just minutes after I pulled it out of the sheath later that day. Chinese stores, so good.

>> No.9652522
File: 74 KB, 620x459, GETSUGA TENSHOU!!!.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9652522

A katana can emit a powerful deep black beam that will destroy any non-black creature upon impact (although it can still be regenerated). Since racial mixing was uncommon during the Middle Ages block (leading to few black fighters) and the the katana's beam was easy to use, it easily dominated the metagame.

>> No.9652534

It's pretty funny how katanas and European swords were something reserved to people with status in their respective societies, and part of their "dressing".

Read more about duels and rapiers/katanas on wikipedia. The correlation swords had to personal status on both societies, and their importance to their owners, is pretty interesting.

>> No.9652536

>>9652534
>pretty interesting
maybe to a f*cking nerd like you

>> No.9652590

>>9652522
Dat Doom Blade

>> No.9652625

>>9652291

You suffer from almost every misconception told about European swords, ever. It takes way more technique to wield a European sword probably since it's straight. The curved blade of the katana makes it much easier to cut. Try to slash with a longsword and it won't make almost no damage. A European sword was no club-like weapon, it was a highly agile - and fragile - cutting and stabing weapon. And it was way too expensive for a peasent. The sword was pretty much the most expensive weapon in any arsenal, often in the same price range as a good horse. That's why it was the typical knight's weapon.

>> No.9652627 [SPOILER] 
File: 241 KB, 650x488, 1346310067642.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9652627

>> No.9652637

>>9652522
I think Murder is a better card. Only a little bit more expensive and it can kill anything. Is it still tournament legal?

>> No.9652636

>>9652483
The article was written with dueling in mind. Even in dueling a sword is pure shit. Please stop believing all this nonsense that makes you think swords are good for anything. They are a cowards tool, they are not deisgned for fighting they are simply a status symbol used to show prestige due to the cost of owning one.


Take into account the mechanics of the human body and the length, manner, and design of the weapon being used. The nature of the sword creates a problem when defending above or below the waist. The problem is to defend one’s body above or below one must, by the nature of the sword, expose the opposite of what is defended. This is true with all weapons but to a higher degree with sword and similar weapons. The pole arm offers considerably more options. By tipping the weapon vertically, horizontally, or diagonally out from the body, one can readily defend and strike from any axis of the body. The pole arm fighter does not even have to resort to this guard until the swordsman gets in close enough to be a threat.

>> No.9652639
File: 1.99 MB, 396x224, 1334275155571.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9652639

/thread

>> No.9652671

>>9652636
>cowards tool

How is it a coward's tool if it needs a closer range to be effective than a lance, spear or pole arm?

>> No.9652715
File: 268 KB, 1920x1080, Throne of Blood.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9652715

>>9652255
>>9652501
These were my posts and I stand by them, but here is a video that everyone might find interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDkoj932YFo

A great sword could combine these two swords.

Like a wider, heavier, and longer Katana that was still curved in one direction, but had the other side bladed too, so that way it could have a tip for thrusting.

So like a berserkr Katana

>> No.9652743

>>9652715
>that everyone might find interesting.

I hope no one does. It's typical infotainment hillbilly trash full of half truths and a basic lack of research.

Whenever you watch something from History Channel, and you found it interesting, make sure to compare it with data from a more reliable source.

>> No.9652755

>>9652715

You're still wrong, though.

>Long sword for for thrusting/stabbing into open armor slots.

The main purpose of a longsword wasn't thrusting/stabbing but cutting. Try reading some old fencing books, they're full of cutting techniques.

>> No.9652761

>>9652743
Agreed. Just thought was interesting though.
>>9652755
If I can get my hands on some, that would be nice.

>> No.9652785

>>9652639
>guy randomly bashing a katana against a sword with no technique.gif
Guess what, if you keep beating the back or side of an axe against a tree, it also falls apart. This clearly means the tree is superior and it's not possible for an axe to deal any significant damage to a tree.

>>9652637
The difference between 2 mana and 3 mana is huge, especially in competitive environments. Doom Blade always lets you kill Stoneforge Mystic before it can put a Batterskull on the table (or when not playing against a cheesy Cawblade deck, he might be running a Sword that gives prot:black), while if you have Murder in hand you're screwed if he went first. Even if you're talking casual it can be a radical difference; turn two may be a nasty creature (depending on what kind of casual environment you're playing in, it could be something like a Tarmagoyf), then turn three could be Shielding Plax or a similar protection spell.

Also, Murder has 2 black in its mana cost (making it harder to splash and much harder to cast early-game if you're not playing mono black; if you have three lands among which one general mana fixing land (the kind that effectively turns two mana into one colored), you can cast Doom Blade, but Murder will take you five lands using that kind of mana fixing, and starting with one swamp and two islands also leaves you screwed when it comes to Murder), and the larger cost of 3 also makes a significant difference when you have to leave mana open to be able to cast it at instant speed.

>> No.9652786

>>9652761
>If I can get my hands on some, that would be nice.

Well, we live in the age of the internet.

http://www.thearma.org/manuals.htm

>> No.9652791

>>9652785
>guy randomly bashing a katana against a sword with no technique.gif

Do you think the result would be different if he'd use a cutting technique? No matter what you do, it's physically impossible to cut steal. It's only logical that the katana bends given it's blade construction.

>> No.9652794
File: 17 KB, 507x286, gunsword.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9652794

>> No.9652802

>>9652791
Uh, dude, don't even start about 'impossible'. Even a piece of cardboard (like a card) could theoretically cut steel if sharpened (or naturally relatively sharp, like a card) and launched at an extreme velocity with correct rotation.

There are many tiny factors that all contribute to the final result of one of the two weapons breaking. You could fail to break the sword even with something extremely sharp and stable, as long as the rotation is incorrect, you don't swing straight, you put in power to swing beyond the target point, you don't put in enough power, etc.

>> No.9652819

I like Chinese style swords the best.

>> No.9652825

>>9652802
Uhh no, the sword would just cut the paper.

And the reason why that picture is flawed is because the sword has support underneath.It would be like swinging at a rock which simply has tons of mass and strength.

>> No.9652826

>>9652231
>What do you think is better? One particular type of sword from Japan or an entire continent's history worth of swords?

>> No.9652829

I think katana are better on an aesthetic level. The way they're curved, the size and length of the blade, and all the little details on the hilt and sheath make for really beautiful swords.

There's a reason why katana are so prevalent in popular media and I would say it's due to how cool they look.

>> No.9652844

Toledo sword

>> No.9652849
File: 7 KB, 290x174, images.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9652849

Katanas are lightweight and great at cutting. They are only good at cutting. If someone is wearing any decent metal, then you may as well be hitting with a small metal pole. Because they are so lightweight, they are poor for defending and rely on the user to dodge rather than block.

European swords are heavy, great for thrusting, okay at cutting, and good for defending. The sharp pointed tip makes it ideal for thrusting rather than cutting. They generally aren't very sharp. Due to it's weight, however, you use momentum to make up for the lack of sharpness. A good swing will break through armor and break bones. Even blocking a hit is dangerous

Guns are the best though. Robocop in Robocop 3 proved it. Also you can make the shape of a gun with your hand and go "pew pew"

>> No.9652850

>>9652849
BUT GUN DOESNT CARRY WARRIOR SOUL

>> No.9652853
File: 67 KB, 535x408, robocop-detroit-raising-statue.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9652853

>>9652850
GUN carry Detroit soul

>> No.9652857

Fucking nerds

>> No.9652873

European all the way. A Scottish basket hilt for me please.

>> No.9652899

European knights were idiots. Their stupidly heavy armors made them easy targets for agile mongolian horse riders.

>> No.9652905

>>9652899
Samurai would prove to be even worse if it wasn't for "kamikaze".

>> No.9652913

>>9652899
>stupidly heavy armors

30kg evenly spread across the whole body sure is heavy as HELL.

>> No.9652942

>>9652899

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqC_squo6X4

Use your common sense, people. Europe would have been overrun several times if this bullshit would be true. Effectiveness was always a matter on the battlefield.

>> No.9652954

>>9652849

A European sword and a katana weighed almost the same. Also, a katana is tip-heavy while a longsword has it's center of weight near the hilt.

>>
Reply to thread [?]Don't expect anything heroic. Your post will not be uploaded to the original board.
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Action