/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

I started reading a book called "Little Boy: The Arts of Japan's Exploding Subculture" on a whim; it's a catalog from Takashi Murakami's last exhibition for his Superflat 'trilogy'. It was published in 2005, so obviously the scene has changed quite a bit but nonetheless, I'm curious about /jp/'s opinion towards these 'definitions' of otaku (taken from a conversation between Toshio Okada and Kaichiro Morikawa).

>Morikawa: Many otaku think they like what they like even though they know these things are objectionable, when in fact they like them precisely BECAUSE they are objectionable. This gap between their own perception and reality has made it difficult to distinguish otaku from mania [socially-adjusted obsessives]...otaku don't just purely love anime or manga, they choose to love these things in part as a means of making themselves unacceptable. That is why their interests are so broad [anime, manga, and figures rather than just one category].

>This dame orientation is evidenced by the history of otaku favorites. Up until the 1980s, people who watched anime-any kind of anime, be it Hayao Miyazaki or Mamoru Oishii or whatever- were all considered otaku. Today, Japanese anime is so accomplished that one film even won an Academy Award. As a result, grown-ups can safely watch, say, Miyazaki's anime without being despised as otaku. The upshot of this is, as soon as anime and games earned respectability in society, otaku created more repugnant genres, such as bishoujo games and moe anime, and moved on to them.

>Dame does not define something as bad or low quality. It's the self-indulgent fixation of otaku on certain things that is socially unacceptable.

[Anonymous No.]

Okada, who claims to belong to a previous generation of otaku, believes otherwise:

>Okada: Morikawa-san, you otaku are "urban-centric"; they are the hopeless otaku who roam around Akihabara...it's wrong to define them as core otaku. In my experience, otaku like science fiction and anime not because these things are worthless, but because they are GOOD. Otaku are attracted by things of high quality. Some otaku obsessions become hits, others don't. But according to Morikawa-san's definition, the question of "quality" becomes irrelevant in otaku culture. But what's survived in otaku culture hasn't become unacceptable. It's survived the competition because its quality has been recognized. Once something like a bishoujo game achieves a certain level of quality, you buy it even if you don't actually like bishoujo games. I feel otaku are tough customers who demand high standards.

Are either of them accurate? Do you believe them to be simply pretentious?

[Anonymous No.]

quality entertainment

[Anonymous No.]

Wouldn't know. I've never met an otaku in my life.

[Anonymous No.]

Otaku is a buzzword for jap genocide.

[Anonymous No.]

I think there needs to be a division in terminology between otaku and perverts who watch anime to fulfill their pervsions. The loli moe naked tit lovers are enough to be their own sub sub culture.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9324674
I always thought of it more as escapism than anything and I'm strongly convinced that if these people (otakus) would manage to get into normal relationship, they would give up on their habit.

And unless they really have autism or something they can't be completely satisfied with such lifestyle.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9324674
I think they both can be true. Like, some people are like 'oh im a total loser so i can just call myself an otaku and its okay,' and then they kinda insult people who just like anime and watch it because it's good.

[Anonymous No.]

Otaku the a result of the modern age. The reckless abandon these individuals treat their lives with is a materialization of the subjectivity of morals and value, the loss of spirituality and the freedom of all information. At last the common man is able to look into the abyss that is truth through the internet and he has despaired and chosen to pre-occupy himself with other things as a distraction to those horrors.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9324765 I think they both can be true.
That's what I think too.
We had this thread before right? Well it's /jp/, of course we had it before.

[Anonymous No.]

>otaku are tough customers who demand high standards

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9324677
>Okada believes otherwise
I think you are confusing something here.
>>Dame does not define something as bad or low quality. It's the self-indulgent fixation of otaku on certain things that is socially unacceptable.
It is not about quality, it is about a social stigma. As such, it is completely compatible with this:
>>otaku are tough customers who demand high standards.
High standard products that are unacceptable, sort of like the difference between child porn with obese drug-addicted and sick children and child porn with carefully selected actors.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9324753
Even that theory is not mutually exclusive with what's been said in the opening two posts.
Think about the reason why they are choosing socially unacceptable interests.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9324753

Why do you normals have this attitude where you think you can actually just tell people what they want and how they want to live their life? And even if we're not living it that way, that's of course only because we "can't", and if we had the chance of course we'd suddenly convert to your superior, sacred way of life?

It's like you are completely incapable of accepting that some people just don't care to take part in your bullshit

[Anonymous No.]

If I could, I'd take all the people performing overbearing psychoanalysis and relating their "deep thoughts" about chinese girl cartoons, put them in a giant box, and sink it into the ocean.

If there were room left over, I'd add the people who make threads about them on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9327308
I apologize, but I can't help but analize everything. It's part of what I am.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9327308

ENJOY LE UPVOTE GOOD SIR +1

Seriously, I had to endure a ``cultural'' class with this sort of shit for an entire fucking year when I was taking Japanese.

I'm sure some people are genuinely very interested in what the state of the Jdrama industry in 2012 says about perceptions of femininity in Japanese society but those people are fucking annoying and listening to them talk about it is absolutely unbearable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9327286
You would still prefer to be NEET when you would have option to have a "normal life"?
By that I don't mean some shitty labor work but something that you would enjoy to an extent and make you enough money to have a comfortable life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9327533

OP's book is about otaku not NEETs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9327533
NEET isn't a status symbol, nerdlord.

[Disability-san No.]

I bet he didn't even mention secret Otakus
Hmmmh

[Anonymous No.]

>I feel otaku are tough customers who demand high standards.
We see this on /jp/ everyday.
There isnt a single kamige that wasnt criticized on /jp/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9327286
Thank you! I feel like every time I see the type of comment you're responding to it's like "wtf man, I can live however I want."

>>9327533
And fuck you, dude being NEET is way better than "normal life."
No such thing as a job I could enjoy. I hate working.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9327370
I feel the same way about the stuff you were talking about with your cultural class. I hate having people explain to me why they don't like whatever I'm talking about because blah blah blah feminism sexualization of young girls, etc. and I'm just like "shut up, it's funny/good/sad/whatever. It's worthwhile."btw I'm a girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9329786
>INTERNET TOUGH CUSTOMER

[Anonymous No.]

>they like them precisely BECAUSE they are objectionable.
There could definitely be truth to this. It's not a stretch to think that many otaku gravitate towards the objectionable in order to find a common ground in which to relate to others like them. Take /jp/ for example. This place would be incredibly twisted to a "normal" person's perspective, but here, we feel a part of a community by virtue of the fact that many of us have trouble dealing with the world out there. I agree that some otaku may like "otaku things" because it makes them different, but not for the sake of being different. Rather, it's one of the few outlets for which they may express themselves amongst those like them.

I disagree, however, with how "repugnant genres" are born from the mainstreaming of anime and manga. Bishoujo and moe have always been an intrinsic part of the otaku subculture. A larger focus upon it may just be representative of the times (socio-economic change), rather than a contrarian movement.

[Anonymous No.]

I want to like this guy but then he says stuff like this and comes off as an asshole.

I knew there was something rotten about ``superflat'' the moment I laid eyes on it.

[Anonymous No.]

Also, fuck him who says "moe is repugnant". You're repugnant. Moe is the opposite of fascism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9333716
Repugnant is probably to be taken is a very strict sense: moe pushes back normal people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9333698
>>9333716
I see it as a sign that the otaku label is still heavily stigmatized. Everyone tries to distance themselves from it, except for actual otaku, which is something I find very respectable. At the same time, writers, directors, artists, etc. have more to lose, so I guess it's understandable, but I don't like people dancing on the fence. The problem with the Superflat movement is that they try to create the illusion of being on a side. Many of them are otaku, but some of them (even some otaku) criticize and try to distinguish themselves from it. If they wish to instigate change, they must be more concrete in their ideals.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9324785
I think you might be on to something here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9324785
Holy fuck. Did you just write that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9324785

This is a really superficial analysis. What, there weren't the horrors of war before? There wasn't poverty and ugliness? There wasn't surrealism?

What about the internet is so horrifying?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334012
Do you have a 9-5 job?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334012
Nothing. That's just a pseudo-intellectual nihilistic "analysis" of modern culture that oh-so-edgy kids identify with.

What the otaku subculture really is is the inevitable embracing of the hyperreal in a world saturated by symbols and images. It is not an escape from reality, but rather an extension because reality itself is no longer real. The irony is that there is now more truth in fantasy than what is termed "real life". It is the result of a society centered around consumption.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334203
Just going to casually recommend this documentary as an addendum to your post.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334210
That looks very insightful. Checking it out now.

[Anonymous No.]

>Caring about what is socially acceptable, instead of simply enjoying things.

Why are all normals such slaves to each others' expectations?

What a sad and pathetic existence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334012
Not the guy you were talking to, but you have to think about the fact that many horrors in life weren't well known at all. For instance, people didn't really know what happened at wars until the media managed to reach the war zones; abuse to child or women was either commonplace or never talked about; and poverty/ugliness has always existed, but (I think) now is aproached differently, since the development of an individualistic society makes most people live in a "every man for themselves" kind of mentality. It's worth noting that, since delinquency became so well-known, people began to fear contact with each other, which also explains these individualistic shenanigans.

On the other hand, the internet is a place of anonimity, and as such one does not have to think too much about the consecuences of saying or doing something stupid. This, combined with the rising liberation of sexuality and subjectivism in general, makes room for things like those horrible sexual fetishes to bloom stupendously. Since the internet is an incredibly collective place, where people from everywhere can say whatever kind of things they want, some people look inside its darkest corners and are understandably repulsed. But, who is to blame for these atrocities? The people, of course.

With this reasoning, each individual understands what the other anon called the "truth trough the internet": that the entirety of humanity is half-made of twisted and perverted people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9327533
>By that I don't mean some shitty labor work but something that you would enjoy to an extent and make you enough money to have a comfortable life.


No such thing.

>>>/b/
>>>/v/
>>>/soc/
>>>/mlp/

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334245
>>>/y/

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334012
Also, no, surrealism didn't exist the way it does now.
You can thank this man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334232
The idea that people are innately evil predates contemporary society, media, and the internet. People have always been aware of life's "horrors". If anything, the internet itself is the tool for escape as it allows one to control the flow of information on a personal level, and let's one "take a break" from reality. It's a place in which one's constructed self can flourish due to anonymity; a place where people drown in their own egocentrism and ignorance. It makes no sense that a person would turn to a niche subculture to escape truth when the internet already serves that function.

Do you think people are on this site because there are deep, hidden truths to be uncovered? No, they are here because the world outside scares them. We have already seen the truth. We reject it for the convenient half-truths found here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9333746
>moe pushes back normal people.

How? Moe is just cute stuff, the least threatening thing out there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334292
I agree with you.
I am only saying that the development of technology has made it easier for people to understand the harshness of life. This did exist earlier, but not as graphically as it does now.

The consecuence of this is what you say, people take refuge in whatever they can.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334012
He's talking about the emotional void that our lives can't fulfill. Our lives in this broken, meaningless society amount to nothing, no matter what we do.

What the internet does is show us that it's the same everywhere. This world might have seemed like a big place 20 years ago. Big enough that it could hide a place for dreams and happiness somewhere. Not so much anymore.

I wrote emotional void but you could call it spiritual void or simply a lack of meaning. It doesn't matter.

If you don't see that then I recommend you to leave now and don't look back.
/jp/ is the last stop after all.

[Anonymous No.]

I think both writings are over thinking why people like things. I have never felt a desire to purposely be unaccepted. I have found that others are very accepting of otaku culture. Disapproval seems to come from misinformation and lack of exposure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334391
This.
People overthink things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334353

>What the internet does is show us that it's the same everywhere. This world might have seemed like a big place 20 years ago
This actually does make sense to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334334
No, I understand what you're trying to say, but was only pointing out that your post cherry-picked the idea that the internet is used primarily to share and obtain information elucidating the harshness of this world. It's a double-edged sword and we can see with the popularity of blogs/social networking/"time-waster" sites that the contrary of what you stated is not only true, but might even take precedent over any pragmatic function of the internet. I would go so far as to say that due to the creation of the internet, people are the most out-of-touch they have ever been. Social change movements today are reduced to regurgitated memes and blatant ego masturbation. We live in an age of illusion, but we think it's meaningful because it indulges the self.

>>9334353
The idea of an emotional/spiritual void predates the internet. The internet has not made us more aware of this, but rather, in the case of the masses, pulls the wool even further over their eyes.

>>9334337
It's used (erroneously) by the mainstream as a catch-all term to refer to anything "otaku".

>>9334391
>I have found that others are very accepting of otaku culture
Not in Japan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334292
I agree with you except for one thing.

The anonymity allows people to truly be free and act how they want to act.

Thus, having seen how people truly are and how they wish to treat each other, we avoid them completely, because there is nothing to be gained from interacting with them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334232
>>9334292
I don't think "truth" has anything to do with things.
Society itself is changing, and we are the result. The waste, so to speak.
We don't know more or less than "normalfags"* about the horrors of the world. We have very simply been broken and conditioned into a state where we are no longer capable of functioning in the real world.
Most of us are afraid of other humans, some of us also completely lack ambition, rendering them unable to stand up every morning to go pursue a career. We have been trained into uselessness.
No matter what the reasons are, we constantly feel rejected and oppressed by a world we cannot deal with.
What is the response?
>I do not want to work.
>I do not want to have friends.
>I am just taking it easy.
This is self-hypnosis. It's not lies, it's our defense. We are convincing ourselves that everything is alright, that we lack nothing.
[to be continued]

*I really hate using that term.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334448
What are you doing here then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334353
The world is incredibly big. If you cannot envision the immensity of this, you probably lack an eye for details or an interest for anything else outside your bubble.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334450
[cont]
So why the socially unacceptable hobbies?
That is also a form of defense.
We are afraid of strangers. We avoid them. We want nothing to do with them.
What better way to do this than to be undesirable to them?

This does not happen on a conscious level. But very few things do. The main task of the consciousness is just to make up reasons for what the subconscious wants to do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334454
/jp/ doesn't count as interacting with people.

Stop trying to be a smartass.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334353
>/jp/ is the last stop after all.


I knwo what you mean. What's left after this place? Gensokyo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334442
>your post cherry-picked the idea that the internet is used primarily to share and obtain information elucidating the harshness of this world.

This was not my intention, and I agree completely with you. I feel trying to discuss this would be much easier if we were face-to-face, ironically.
Still, it's nice to see that someone here actually puts some thought behind their posts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334450
>>9334466
We aren't the only ones who do this though.

The Japanese are about a decade ahead in terms of the societal decay that you speak of.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334512
Sure. I thought it obvious I was referring to them as well in a thread about the nature of otaku.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334466
The "subconscious" doesn't exist in the sense you're using. If there is a "subconscious", it probably isn't capable of complex symbolic reasoning. Maybe there's some sort of positive feedback that certain types of people get from "undesirable" hobbies, but if there is, those people don't get into the hobbies just because they've made some sort of "subconscious" connection between the hobbies and undesirability—they stick with the hobbies because of the positive feedback.

>>9334491
That was uncalled for. I think I deserve to be called a person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334482
We'll meet on the other side I'm sure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334524
>those people don't get into the hobbies just because they've made some sort of "subconscious" connection between the hobbies and undesirability
Perhaps I am explaining it wrong. But the fact of the matter is that this kind of rebellion is very popular. Children do it all the time (distancing themselves from their parents).
I remember drawing swastikas everywhere, and even now I still have a habit of telling people about my bad and violent traits (to keep them away from me).

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334524
I wouldn't talk about the unconscious mind, because it's quite a touchy subject. I think what you say is true, though, because the whole idea that "people like things because they are undesirable for others" bases itself on a complex interaction that seems to be too right, too easy to explain, like some sort of reason taken from a magical hat.

Perhaps the whole thing is just a part of whatever happens when people become attracted to things. It sounds stupid to just like something because other people hate it; there must be something else that people see in it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334450
>>9334466
I'll be honest, this sounds like Intro to Psych-level analysis. There's no "subconscious"; what you're referring to is the Unconscious, which is limited only to Freudian/Psychoanalytical psychology--something that most people (psychologists included) regard as bullshit. My post was not really about "truth", but rather about escapism and how the internet has served as a tool to facilitate this. If we wish to talk about truth, we must understand that it's relative to the individual. If anything, I find the half-truths here to be more true than those in the outside world. To put it simply, and I feel this is why otaku do what they do: If I must live in a dream, why not one in which I am comfortable?

I agree with you that we engage in these things as a result of this world, but we don't do these things because of a contrarian need to be "different". We do these things because it's the only thing we can do at this point. This is the only way we can express ourselves in a world that flows against ours. It's not a shock to find so many NEETs and hikikomori, because the world out there is neither rewarding spiritually nor physically.

>>9334506
>Still, it's nice to see that someone here actually puts some thought behind their posts.
Likewise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334557
>Children do it all the time (distancing themselves from their parents).
>I remember drawing swastikas everywhere
But those are totally different. People do things like draw swastikas everywhere because they know that other people will see them, and children distance themselves from their parents because they want to deny their parents the right to be with them. Most people who get into "undesirable" hobbies, on the other hand, don't do it because they want to go out and parade them around like you do with your bad and violent traits—they do it because, like most people who get into hobbies, they enjoy them and aren't totally repulsed by the other people into the hobby. If they really only cared about their hobbies because of other people's reactions, they would probably act like you and make sure to make them clear to everyone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334605
>something that most people (psychologists included) regard as bullshit.

Shit son, you a psychologist? Most people seem to forget this whenever Freud is mentioned.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334621
No, but I have a personal interest in the subject. Many people forget that psychology existed before and after Freud. In fact, many people are turned off to the study of Psychology and look down upon it because they are only aware of Freudian psychoanalysis. I acknowledge his influence, but even in the scope of Psychoanalysis, I find myself more in tune with Jung's theories.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9324674

Normals are normal because they're stupid following herd mentality or are afraid to not fit in. Anti socials are more mature and see moral and philosophical values like individuality and freedom.

otakus are just a byproduct of society. Most anti socials are fucking geniuses. Otakus are just too fucking lazy, but have intelligence to enjoy. Fuck, we could have colonized Mars and shit.

[Anonymous No.]

I've done unappealing things because I don't want to deal with people. I've got to say they never involved moe. It's pretty easy to just be an anti-social cunt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334678
>Normals are normal because they're stupid following herd mentality
>Anti socials are more mature and see moral and philosophical values like individuality and freedom.
>Most anti socials are fucking geniuses.
I'm a genius too, but I just don't have any motivation ;_; us poor anti socials, man

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334678
Anti-socials, by definition, have trouble relating to morals and social values such as freedom or individuality. This is why sociopaths fall under that particular category.

If you mean asocial, there's little evidence to support such claims. A social disorder might actually imply lower intelligence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334614
>If they really only cared about their hobbies because of other people's reactions, they would probably act like you and make sure to make them clear to everyone.
Good point. There are two kinds of "otaku" out there. I did not save the images, because frankly I never found them very funny, but you surely have seen them as well, where guys openly present themselves with their dakimakura, while others seem to try their best to hide their hobbies, favouring "power-level hiding" desktop backgrounds and t-shirts (even if that is probably just a game to many).
I do not choose my hobbies purely on the social status they come with, but I must admit to a certain kind of pride that I felt when I created my gore folder all those years ago when I first started on 4chan.
For the Japanese it might be even more extreme, since they have their group mentality, so it's either WITH the normals or AGAINST them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334721
>For the Japanese it might be even more extreme, since they have their group mentality, so it's either WITH the normals or AGAINST them.
Are you just making this up on the spot?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334721
Ingroup/outgroup bias is common to everyone and I'm sure everyone get's at least a little excited when they do something favorable in the eyes of their group, whether or not it's even perceived. I wouldn't call people who parade around with dakimakura "otaku", nor would I call those that needlessly hide their hobbies "otaku". The label doesn't even matter. What matters is that the individual enjoys what he or she does. I feel that in your example, such behavior would detract from a person's actual interest in a particular hobby; they former sound like exhibitionists, and the latter sound like closet fetishists. Both enjoy their hobby for reasons other than the actual entertainment value.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334713

Aren't there loads of genius and famous scientists and researcher that didn't fit in society, or had autism (don't people who have this usually not social)? I really don't know, I'm no psychologist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334730
It's common knowledge that people from asian countries tend to collectivize themselves more that westerners.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334730
Do note the "might"
It's a theory I just thought up. You can dismiss it, you can discuss it with me. You can do with it whatever you want.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334740
There are also plenty of geniuses and scientists that fit perfectly in society, like Hawkins.
The fact that these exist or not doesn't really matter, though, since no one really knows what "intelligence" means. Most people relate it to the ability to work in group, which is why dogs are considered more intelligent than cats.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334740
There could be, but there are also many well-adjusted, "normal" scientists and researchers. I have heard that there's a correlation between high intelligence and psychological disorders, but I don't think social disorders fall under that category. My common sense tells me that a person unable to communicate properly with others lacks the intelligence in order to do so. They may possess a lot of fluid intelligence, but that will only get a person so far.

>>9334750
True, but that doesn't mean they suffer from the "us vs. them" mentality any more than individualistic societies. If anything, a collectivist culture could create a larger ingroup, in which even those that deviate are still part of the whole.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334779
>If anything, a collectivist culture could create a larger ingroup, in which even those that deviate are still part of the whole.
I thought the Japanese were a lot more ostrasizing than any European country, with bullying being commonplace almost everywhere.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334808
Possibly. I really don't know because I don't know much about Japan in general. I do know that during times of crisis, they work together amazingly well as opposed to America which breeds rioting and a lot of hate. It's could be quite true that the collectivist culture polarizes the people further when it comes to hobbies/interests, but I don't know if that alone drives otaku to invest so generously in the industry. I think, first and foremost, that they enjoy it, and even then, it would mean a stronger niche community which is something I've longed for living in America.

[Catadioptric No.]

Just my two cents, I really don't care if society likes or dislikes my hobbies. Monstergirls, moe, DFC, whatever. I neither parade them nor hide them, not that people often do go into my room. I don't think all "otaku" by nature do it for the anti-societal attention or feeling of rebelliousness that some theorize. Some, maybe. I do it just because it's what I like, so that what I'm going to do. Implying there's some kind of "subconscious" reason for this seems a little fishy to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9334853
America breeds rioting and hate because it is not a united, homogenous society, which Japan is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9335355
America breeds hate because the education is really lacking.
Yuropfag here, I've recently sat next to a mother telling another woman that she had to be very careful in what kindergarten to enlist her child. She had heard that there were muslims in one, and she definitely did not want her daughter to have to deal with such differences at such an early state of her life.
It was fucking sad, and if I wasn't who I am, I might have explained that to her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9337415
Yuropoors love muslims so much they are even giving them their countries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9337415
Another yuro here. Maybe he was trolling, maybe not,but I think the point of that post was the "dealing with such differences at such an early state" bullcrap.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9337678
Yeah.
Sorry, I'm bad at explaining things.