/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

What was your learned-kanji-per-hour speed for those of you who used this book?

Mine is only about 3-4 kanji per hour including daily revisions in Anki and I think I must be doing something wrong like spending too much time to find abstract, but logical explanation for the primitives (e.g. "rolled like a snake, with one of the four edges (a quarter) hidden and the rest exposed" for 巻). Other factors might be that I'm doing so only in public transport where there are too many distracting things to keep concentrated and trouble with some keywords I don't know meaning of and have to look them up in the dictionary (English is not my native language).

[Anonymous No.]

In before idiots arguing about how much you need to know about each kanji before you can say you've learned it.

[Anonymous No.]

> hour including daily revisions in Anki
What I meant was I manage to learn 3-4 new kanji and revise everything due in the deck in an hour's time.

[Anonymous No.]

What do you wants us to say? Don't worry pal everything's all right even if you go slowly here's an e-blowjob?
Speed varies according to effort, want more speed, put more effort.

[Anonymous No.]

That seems kind of low, maybe you're struggling too much with the ones you're just revising? How do you have due a day, on average?

This is my process with Heisig:
I started a notebook where the first time I learn the kanji, I write the kanji and it's meaning such that I could look it up in the notebook later. Once I've done that for all my new kanji (20 usually) I go to the Anki reps. This whole process only takes an hour or two. I've even gone long stretches without doing reps, and got up to speed on all of them in around 3.

All I can think of is that you have too many due a day or the fact that you're using English as an intermediary language is holding you back. I'm not really sure if Heisig can still work in that way, because those words are picked quite carefully in order to convey the same connotations as the Japanese word. I believe it's been translated into many languages though, you might try to find it in yours?

[Anonymous No.]

"Kanji per hour"? That's... really not how it works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440456
I guess you may be right about the cause of my slowdown. I usually look up a kanji in the japanese dictionary before making a story since the keyword may seem very vague (such as pelt: pelt with snowballs or pelt of an animal?) Unfortunately, there is no Heisig in my language, but I still think learning this way is more productive than other methods. On the bright side, I can at least hope that with the help of a japanese dictionary the connotations I remember will be more precise than those suggested by the English keyword.

[Anonymous No.]

Well sometimes 50 a day, sometimes 100.
But then I made a pause for a few days because otherwise they won't sticj.

I also have to admit I quit 2-3 times before I finished learning the 2000 because of lack of conentration and will.

Took me about 2 years to finish. Fucking vidya kept distracting me.
I started using iknow.jp after finishing.
And for RTK1 this is probably the best site:
http://kanji.koohii.com/
If you don't know it already.

[Anonymous No.]

Per-thread reminder that Heisig is a placebo and you're learning nothing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440515
Per reply reminder that you're an idiot who doesn't even try to understand the purpose of Heisig in the first place and just whine about how it won't instantly teach you everything you need to know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440515
It's probably different for everyone but heisig made it alot easier for me to make my way through Core6k.
Also if you want to write I gues you are fucked if you don't use it.

[Anonymous No.]

what does placebo mean in this context? it doesn't make any sense

[文トッラ No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440456
Oh, and the due count averages to about 20-30 kanji per day. It doesn't take too much time to revise them and the hit rate is around 90 percent. I think there should not be a problem here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440537
It had just become a buzzword for "you might think it work, but it doesn't".

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440537

You think you're making worthwhile progress and you're not, because you're too busy making up dumb anecdotes, and learning arbitrary meanings that vary in context beyond all predictability and will not help you read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440572
> will not help you read
Won't help you speak or listen either.

[Anonymous No.]

I completed it in about 1,5 months. Some days I would do 100 some days I wouldn't do any.

[original poster No.]

> I completed it in about 1,5 months. Some days I would do 100 some days I wouldn't do any.
> Well sometimes 50 a day, sometimes 100.
How many hours per day did you spend to achieve this amount? It was relative speed I was curious about. Surely if you study kanji for twelve hours a day you can make great progress. Studying them on a subway on your way to college is another thing.

[Anonymous No.]

When I was a student of elementary school in Japan, I learned 1006 of kanji by 6 years.
It averages about 0.46 kanji per a day.

[Anonymous No.]

Heisig is a really rough method, and you should try to rush it. You shouldn't worry about whether you remember every single one you encounter, you'll get more than enough repetition by reading actual Japanese text.

So I'd recommend trying to pick up your pace, and don't think that you'll have to study each one so hard that you'll never forget it. Heisig is effective up to the point where you encounter the kanji by reading and can tell yourself "hey, I think I remember that one". As soon as you get to that point, reading or studying vocabulary is more effective.

[Anonymous No.]

If all you want to do with this language is engage in foreign pop culture, then don't bother

Japanese pop culture (like all others) is invested heavily in meanings which one would only grasp if they had been raised in it

I mean, imagine trying to seriously explain early episodes of The Simpsons or Beavis and Butthead: it simply cannot be reasonably done

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440687
Bullshit. Also, I recognize your writing style. You're the guy from yesterday who tried to argue the otaku lifestyle is unhealthy or something like that. All the more reason not to listen to you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440694

That's what makes it so sadly pathetic

These are mentally ill people who are attempting to engage with culture they can never really fully understand

So really, they dedicate all their efforts to a sisyphean task while ignoring the options (such as socialising) which would truly benefit from such attention, then claim after the fact that they simply can't make the effort

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440674
That idea is somewhat comforting. I feel I spent way too long time studying without even being able to read an eroge without a dictionary, but when I realize natives don't even learn to read newspaper words before high school, it doesn't seem so bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440687
What kind of bullshit is that? Are you aware a good part of the people browsing 4chan are from non English-speaking countries? That some of them are even from countries that use completely different alphabets, or even logograms? I'm one of them, and I can guarantee you I can understand the Simpsons. I'm not particularly good, either.
Stop talking out of your ass.

[Anonymous No.]

If you really serious about learning a language then I would look to one which at least has certain cultural ties so not everything is a lost cause from the start

In this I would recommend French, German or most importantly Spanish (whether you learn the European variant or one of the many American dialects is up to you)

These would not only be more readily understood by you, but if you are an American you could apply Spanish almost immediately to your daily life: it would have both interest value and use value

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440709

You are almost undoubtedly from a European country, and there is a somewhat strong shared cultural link here

Beyond this, 4chan's userbase from those outside of both A) The anglosphere and B) the latin alphabet -using world is utterly negligible

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440710
Who the fuck would want to learn Spanish?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440701
I don't need to understand their culture to read to VNs and light novels. Also you don't need a reason to learn a foreign language, people who need a valid reason for that are the ones that never achieve anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440710
>it would have both interest value and use value
Except the guy's obviously interested in Japanese, not Spanish/French/whatever

Get out. He can learn what he want, you have no right to discourage him with your bullshit whines

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440710
>Spanish
>interest value

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440716
>You are almost undoubtedly from a European country, and there is a somewhat strong shared cultural link here
No, I'm not.

>Beyond this, 4chan's userbase from those outside of both A) The anglosphere and B) the latin alphabet -using world is utterly negligible

No, it isn't. If you aren't convinced, I think moot published some 4chan stats to help attract advertisers. The number is much higher than you'd think.
Also, now that you have clearly shown to everyone you don't know what you're talking about, can you please get out?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440718

Given Spanish is just behind Chinese in terms of largest numbers of people who have it as a mother language, and that South America is also going through its own economic upswing (along with issues of immigration to America) one who was interested in something of actual practical use, rather than a language which, while having some 128 million speakers, is concentrated almost entirely in one nation which is becoming increasingly irrelevant outside of the disaster circuit

>>7440722

His interest in the language is likely marginal next to sentiments such as 'now I can watch cartoons without subtitles' or 'I can play new videogames'

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440687
>Japanese pop culture (like all others) is invested heavily in meanings which one would only grasp if they had been raised in it

The fruit is hard to reach, but it's so ripe and delicious you will hardly pass it by. Also, I usually prefer situation-based jokes to reference jokes. Those can be understood easily without much knowledge of the country's entertainment industry or heritage.

For the record, my Slavic native language does not prevent me from thinking that Futurama is the best animated series ever released, even though I admit I don't understand some references in it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440741
>I learn languages because I want to earn money and not because I'm interested in the country's cultural heritage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440751

Your image both hilariously and ironically reflects back onto yourself in a way which I do not think you intended

Also videogames and cartoons are not a nation's 'cultural heritage' and it is pretty sad that you should think so

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440741
> His interest in the language is likely marginal next to sentiments such as 'now I can watch cartoons without subtitles' or 'I can play new videogames'
That actually is great motivation, in my opinion. Knowing your native language and English suffices for everything apart from entertainment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440756
The really sad thing is that you think all Japan has to offer is video games and manga.
I can't believe I'm seriously arguing with someone this ignorant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440741
I studied Japanese just to read VNs and was able to more or less after a couple of months. Stop trying to convince everyone Japanese is something a foreigner could never understand just because you yourself think you couldn't or failed doing so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440741
>His interest in the language is likely marginal next to sentiments such as 'now I can watch cartoons without subtitles' or 'I can play new videogames'

And what the hell is wrong with that? As I said, He can learn what he want, and I'll add for whatever reason he want. You have absolutely no say in whatever he wants to do. If you think learning Spanish is better then YOU go pick up a spanish textbook and get out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440759

Oh wow it's almost as if you feel diplomacy, trade, immigration, education and research do not exist

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440751
I never understood people who choose to learn a language for the job opportunities. No matter what language you're learning, it will take you hundreds of hours to get to any decent level with it. If you just want money, why not just spend these hours on working and earning money for them directly, instead of hoping that all the effort you put into learning a new language will eventually make you a more attractive employee and thus give you a higher salary?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440764

These are not sentiments that will keep one interested in the long term

Additionally they are the sentiments of a greedy and grasping child

>>7440761

Beyond an overlarge entertainment industry, electronics (steadily being replaced by superior equipment from elsewhere) and a fishing industry renowned the world over for how environmentally rapacious and devestating it is, Japan offers pretty much nothing of value

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440767

One can hold down a job and learn a language at the same time

Additionally, beyond an increased salary, there is the prospect of increased attractiveness to employers and increased job security

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440776
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Japan
Do your homework. (Just kidding, I'm sure you're busy enough with high school.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440776
Besides vns and dojins I'm learning just so I can understand the comments on nicodouga. Those guys look like a lot of fun.
Sounds retarded, but internet cultures is still some sort of culture.

[Anonymous No.]

Guys, when will you learn?
He is trying to rile you up by taking obviously polemical stances.
Just don't answer and he will eventually give up.
Now observe as he answers with something along the lines of "You can't handle the truth blablabla go seek help blablabla and more autism"

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440776
>These are not sentiments that will keep one interested in the long term
Oh, really? These are the sentiments by which I started learning Japanese and now, almost one year later, I'm still going strong at it and I have actually learned quite a great deal.

Anyway, stop messing around with other people's business if you only want to discourage them. It's not like OP is trying to take drugs/kill people/etc. If you don't like what he does then just don't post here. Or what, are you trying to prevent people from making the same "mistake" you did?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440765
>> Knowing your native language and English suffices for everything apart from entertainment.
> it's almost as diplomacy, trade, immigration, education and research do not exist
Correct, I should have written "for most of us", though education and research are usually caused by the interest in a foreign culture (including entertainment). In any case, great entertainment industry sounds like a very good reason to learn a language, especially on /jp/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440756
>I know how to use a thesaurus do I seem intelligent yet?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440800
I've hidden his posts already because he keeps derailing every thread he posts in. You should hide it too. You don't even need to read his posts because his writing style is immediately recognizable.
Can we please go back to discussing RTK now?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440790
>One can hold down a job and learn a language at the same time
You can also have more jobs at the same time. Or have a job where you take on extra shifts.
>Additionally, beyond an increased salary, there is the prospect of increased attractiveness to employers and increased job security
The main problem is that it's all unquantifiable. You can't prove that it will provide any of these advantage, you're just speculating. And speculation doesn't hold much sway.

I could tell you that you're better off spending more time going to church, because that will increase your chances of a good afterlife. There is a certain possibility that this is true, so it certainly wouldn't hurt to try it. But unless I can actually prove that it will pay off, you likely won't be convinced that it's worth investing your time in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440800

Mental health is a utterly secondary concern here

I am simply cautioning qua wasting one's time on attempting to learn a language which one will have no practical use for outside of entertainment

>Oh, really? These are the sentiments by which I started learning Japanese and now, almost one year later

Anecdote =/ evidence

>>7440788

Yes that sure is a wikipedia page

[Anonymous No.]

Considering all the cultural stuff that we have in japanese games/anime you will have no problem getting all jokes and understanding everything after watching like 40 titles.A whole different issue is if you actually want to live in Japan.You may struggle at first,but with a general knowledge of stuff works that you received from entertainment and stories of people who live there,i don't think it would take too long to integrate into the culture.It simply isn't that alien.

And all the people who are learning Japenese here aren't in for it so that they would be better job applicants due to knowledge of foreign languages.They are in it solely for the entertainment that comes from the country.

And IMO all you need is English these days.Everybody speaks if it,and if not now,then in the future everybody will.It is already deeply rooted and entrenched in popular culture.Therefore studying a foreign language for any purpose other than for a love of its culture or just general thirst for knowledge,is stupid IMO

Don't know if i got trolled or not,but this is just my 2 cents.Carry on.

[Anonymous No.]

I learned English so I could play more games without waiting for a translation into my own native language. Years later I discovered that English is pretty useful for other stuff too.

Fuck the "there must be a serious and valid reason" crowd.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440821
It's not a crowd, it's one guy trolling the fuck out of everyone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440776
>These are not sentiments that will keep one interested in the long term

And this is the opinion of someone who has never learned a second language. Successfully using a new language, especially while doing something you already enjoy, is enjoyable for it's own sake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440811
>Anecdote =/ evidence
Ever heard of "proof by contratidction"? You said that it is absolute that such sentiments will not keep one interested for the long term. I gave you one example (and I'm sure /jp/ can give you more, hell I'll give you another one: Ixrec) that contradicts what you said, showing that it is possible for such sentiments to lead people to learn a language seriously for a long while.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm sick of people badmouthing Spanish.

[Anonymous No.]

>And IMO all you need is English these days.Everybody speaks if it,and if not now,then in the future everybody will.

This statement almost qualifies as the basis for the founding of one of those atheist religions, given how much faith is invested in it

[Anonymous No.]

>Ever heard of "proof by contratidction"?

No becaue you invented it just now

Keep bringing in those anecdotes, though

Maybe the plural will equal evidence?!?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440836
It's probably because in America it's associated with mexicans and all that stuff. Don't take it too hard if you're actually Spanish, I think it's a great language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440839
Not the guy you are arguing but

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_contradiction

MIND = BLOWN

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440836
I'm sick of people pretending it's worthwhile to learn Spanish.

Sorry man, it's not the Renaissance era anymore, all Spanish-speaking countries suck these days, and Spanish-speaking minorities in other countries are even worse.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440839
I invented it? yeah, right
http://www.math.jmu.edu/~taal/235_2000post/235contradiction.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_contradiction
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ProofbyContradiction.html
http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&q=proof+by+contradiction

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440845

That's right, people simply dislike Spanish because of their racist attitudes

>>7440844

Yes that sure is another wikipedia page

Anyway gonna leave this thread, learn German, learn french, learn Spanish

Don't bother with Japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440850
French is my first language, Spanish my second and English my third.
Don't bother. Learn whatever the fuck you want.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440850
THE TROLL HAS BEEN DEFEATED.

And seriously,what's wrong with wikipedia ? he claimed the guy invented proof by contradiction,i linked an article about it thus disproving his claim.

And all the languages you mentioned - how many of them will you actually use ? 99% of the populations of those countries speak english,in some way, shape or form.Knowing languages these days isn't a great plus as it used to be.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440850
>Yes that sure is another wikipedia page
Okay, I can see what you guys mean now, I'm sorry, I won't reply to him again.

Is he the same as the guy who has no idea what placebo means?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440858
>99% of the populations of those countries speak english,in some way, shape or form.
Not really. I hear that French people will act like you raped their mothers while they watched if you try to talk English to them. The question is whether you're going to meet enough French, German or Spanish people in your lifetime to justify learning their language. A 2 week vacation certainly isn't enough to make it worth it. Being able to impress the occasional tourist you encounter in your retail job doesn't sound that rewarding either. So I can only imagine it being useful to learn any of those languages if you're specifically planning to live or work in a country where the majority speaks that language.

[Anonymous No.]

>learn German, learn french, learn Spanish
Yeah, the US education system likes these. They the BIG3 of foreign language education in the US.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440874
Stop bumping this thread for fuck's sake.
Also, I'm >>7440857 and that's wrong as far as I can tell. Maybe I don't live in the right area (*ahem* Paris), but in my experience most people won't care if you speak English to them (As long as they know English, of course. But there's been a drastic improvement in that regard in the last 10-20 years and so you are unlikely to ever meet someone who has absolutely zero knowledge, especially among younger people.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440850
>Yes that sure is another wikipedia page

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1038_3-5997332.html

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440874
French people are notoriously bad at foreign languages, on par with the Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440891
It has a lot more in common with other Romance languages than Japanese. No excuse, please.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7440899
French is the least phonetic of the Latin languages
and it has deviated more from original Latin than the rest have.

[Anonymous No.]

Reading this thread my only question is how the fuck were you so fucking obviously hideously disgustingly synonym synonym trolled?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7441011
Cool bump, samefag.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7441015
You were trolled by this guy so bad it was worthy of a bump. Why did you reply to him? Are you some new level of autism?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7441015
I'm not the samefag.

>>7441011 is not the same person who posted >>7440903

[Anonymous No.]

>>7441020
That's great but I never posted in this thread before, although I followed it with disgust.
Stop bumping shitty threads.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7441025
Are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.]

No I'm not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7441031
>>7441040
>implying not samefag