/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

So I've been thinking about it, /jp/, and I've come to a conclusion.

Emotional Skyscraper is the worst final boss theme in Touhou. Hear me out here, the track is fine musically. It's not my favorite but it's decent. However, it's a terrible theme for a final boss.

Compare it to any of the others. Septette, Nuclear Fusion, Border of Life, even the final boss theme for Great Fairy Wars that I can't recall the name of at the moment.

It's missing something. It has no urgency. There's no sense that this is, indeed, the final battle that the entire game has been leading up to. There's nothing driving the track to make it really *work* as a final boss theme. It just comes off as... underwhelming.

Even Nuclear Fusion- which I love but fully admit is not as good as pure music- is better in this case. Nuclear Fusion is constantly urgent, driving, pushing. You know that this is the big fight that you've been building up to. This is the final boss and it's time to kick some ass. All of the other final boss themes have that too.

But Emotional Skyscraper doesn't. It just doesn't feel right. Let's hope that the final boss of Ten Desires has a better theme.

[Anonymous No.]

I disagree

[Anonymous No.]

Change "worst" to "least good" and you might make a better impression

[Anonymous No.]

You're missing the connection between the character and the theme.

>Septette, Nuclear Fusion, Border of Life

Byakuren is nothing like Remilia, Okuu or Yuyuko.

>It has no urgency.

See above. It doesn't call for urgency, sure it's the final boss theme but it's also Byakuren's theme and its tempo and tranquility suits her.

And in any case, it's awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365397
The start of the song has an insane buildup, TWICE. Are we listening to the same theme?

[Anonymous No.]

I agree to some extent. I think Cute Devil ~ Innocence sounds more final bossy than Cosmic Mind, even though it is just an extra boss.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365417
But Gengetsu is an extra boss.

[Anonymous No.]

Emotional Skyscraper has trumpets overkill, isn't that enough for a final boss ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365413

The build up is part of the let down, honestly. It starts to push toward an actual driving theme, but it just kinda... loses steam.

>>7365408

There is a connection between character and theme, yes. However, It doesn't excuse the fact that- as a final boss theme- Emotional Skyscraper just isn't that great. I admit, it's a pretty good piece of music, and it definitely fits Byakuren, but it's still the final boss theme, and an underwhelming one at that.

You can have tranquil and still work as a final boss theme. Ar Tonelico 2 managed it with the third part of Sublimation, which is vastly slower and calmer than the other two parts. In spite of that, it still felt like a final boss theme.

I'm not sure I can quite express it the way I'd like to- I'm not a musician or really versed in musical terms- I just feel that Emotional Skyscraper lacks something.

I should also note that every indication is that Yuyuko is a pretty calm, tranquil type, but Border of Life is much better as a final boss theme.

>>7365405

Least good is still the worst. Parsing words is for lawyers and english majors.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365408
>Byakuren is nothing like Remilia, Okuu or Yuyuko.
And neither is Shiki.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365397

Who is this? Is this from a set or something? She actually does 3D justice to Yuka.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365453

I'unno, I got it off of /jp/.

[Anonymous No.]

I have to disagree. It has a certain tense feeling, a feeling of needing to endure and fight on to the last shot rather than an intense feeling. I can't describe it better than that, unfortunately.

[Anonymous No.]

OP, the theme is supposed to be uplifting and not menacing, because in the last stage, you become the "bad guy". You're not fighting the bad boss, you're fighting the savior. It's only natural that she has the "good" music instead of the "evil" one.
It's like you've been in the darkness for the last 3 stages and Byakuren with her theme is the rising sun. I mean, it's really easy to imagine this scene, even the background screams this in your face.

[Anonymous No.]

fucking autism, stop overanalyzing songs

[Anonymous No.]

Byakuren isn't really a final boss in that she wasn't doing anything wrong like all the other final bosses.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365397

i need more pics of this cosplayer. now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365546

Except sell herself out to the youkai. She lost all illusions of being an saviour when she gave up her mortality, now she's just youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365525

it's not overanalyzing, it is simply analyzing you fucking faggot

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365589

Near 1000 years before the plot of the game, she did nothing bad to the three girls or present day Gensokyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365499

That argument is somewhat better, and I can see a definite case for it, but I'm still not totally convinced. You can have 'uplifting' and 'tense' at the same time. Just to stick with games, Battle Hymn of the Soul from Persona 3 and- again- part 3 of Sublimation from Ar Tonelico 2 spring to mind. I know there are at least a couple of other examples I can't think of off of the top of my head, but it's not an easy thing to pull it off, and IMO, Emotional Skyscraper doesn't quite manage it.

And it should be noted, this is all my opinion, and I welcome any additional opinions that are well stated.

>>7365575

Sadly, that's my only one.

>>7365525

I work for 8 hours a day opening envelopes, typing shit into computers, and scanning checks. I listen to music while doing all of that. Overanalyzing music is all I've got to keep me sane.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365646
ruined a great picture with fucking retarded macro
good job

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365646
Again, for the same reason, it's not supposed to be tense either. It's more of a GLORIOUS wake-up theme. Byakuren arises from her prison, but not pissed off, more like ready to preach about equality. She wants to be a positive and calm force. It's like Byakuren is opening the gates of enlightenment, trying to force you to join her up there in the Light. You're like "fuck off", but that's another story

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365695

You're welcome.

>>7365697

I can see that. I'll have to chew on that some more, but it's certainly something to think about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365617
Sacrificing the crew that was helping her exorcise the vengeful ghost she was supposed to exterminate in order to get in her good side makes her qualify as Evil to me.

Do not believe Byakuren's lies.

[Anonymous No.]

OP here again. Now that I've gotten my Emotional Skyscraper thoughts out of my head, what's everyone's favorite stage theme?

I've always liked Fall of Fall. It's fast and peppy and fits the stage's mood and tempo perfectly. It's one of the tracks from Touhou that I point to as an example of video game music that really just works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365786
Ultimate Truth, Yuyuko's stage theme.

And Shinki should appear in a new game, dammit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365786

EoSD stage 1, It's pretty much perfect.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365786
Falls of Fall is my favorite song in the series!

Most stage songs are pretty lackluster, but there are some other great ones. EoSD stage 3 obviously springs to mind, as well as MoF stage 5. Also, since this is a sort of UFO thread, I should mention UFO stage 5. I don't think it's musically anything special, but the intensity makes that stage ridiculously fun to play.

Also, regarding Emotional Skyscraper: I think it's the least musically good final boss theme, but I also think it fits perfectly. In the context of the game, I think it works better than Kaguya's and Remilia's. As has been discussed a bit, the story part of the game is quite different with her from the previous ones, and I think the song really helps out with how ZUN's trying to make you feel when you get there. Finally, I think the song notes thing for this is the only one where I completely understood what he was trying to say, so I guess that's a plus for me, too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365786
MoF stage 6
short and sweet

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365786
I like a lot of Stage themes actually,
all Stage 4 themes, UFO Romance in the Night Sky and Rural Makai City Esoteria
Also Voyage FUCKING 1969, makes me feel like floating in fucking space .

Also, Cinderella Cage~ Kagome-Kagome. No explanation needed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365839

Voyage 1969 is probably my second favorite. Fall of Fall only eclipses it because listening to it, I can practically replay the stage in my head. Voyage 1969 I can't quite do that- it doesn't have quite the same synch to it.

>>7365837

Also good, pumps you right up for Kanako.

[Anonymous No.]

You know when Touhou themes sound even better? When you listen to them at the appropriate place and weather.

Try getting out in a storm and pop Suwa Foughten Field
Go outside during sunrise and play Emotional Skyscraper
Capital City of Flowers in the Sky on a Spring morning.
Wind God Girl on a really windy day.
Voyage 1969 and 1970 under a full moon.
Native Faith or Fall of Fall on rain.

I've shat bricks and come buckets when I get the right theme during the right weather and time of the day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365856

I once started crying while on a bus because Iku's theme came on while I was staring at the clouds.

[Anonymous No.]

Hellsinker has better boss themes than Touhou

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365856
Everytime I'm under the rain I listen to MoF stage 2 theme. Feels good.

My fav stage theme is fall of fall.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365856
Kinda like playing Flight of the Bamboo Cutter~Lunatic Princess on the night of a full moon, or Septette for the Dead Princess at dusk?
or U.N. Owen was Her? during a total lunar eclipse

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365786
1. Sleeping Terror
2. Satori Maiden
3. Necrofantasia
4. Hartmann's Youkai Girl
5. Lunatic Princess

Also OPINIONS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365786
>what's everyone's favorite stage theme?
Can't decide between Kagome Kagome, Fall of Fall, or The Capital City of Flowers in the Sky (so underrated.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365786

Favorite has to be Grave of Being. It may just be fond memories speaking, but its intensity really made me fall in love with it, a struggle lasting months nearly coming to an end, going forth with all my might to accomplish what I set out to do. It managed to become my favorite song overall, actually.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365880
I'd still play Voyage 1969-70 under a full moon, they feel more ambient.

Also IaMP Septette only

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365888

Also, I seem to be falling in love with The Centennial Festival for Magical Girls. I'm not exactly sure why.

[Anonymous No.]

Eiyashou stages 2 (Night Bird) and 3 (Old World) aren't getting enough love.
I just love the piano sections in those themes

[八雲紫 No.]

Favorite Touhou songs, in no particular order:
Luna Clock~Lunar Dial
Complete Darkness
Necrofantasia
U.N. Owen was Her?
Reach for the Moon~Immortal Smoke
Septette for the Dead Princess
Apparitions Stalk the Night
Voyage 1969
Gensokyo Millennium ~ History of the Moon
Border of Life

Oh, fuck it, I like ALL of the music in Touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365904
Well, honestly is there a theme you straight-up HATE hearing when you play the games? There are a lot of ones I don't really mind, but I can't say I dislike any one of them.

[八雲紫 No.]

>>7365916
Hmmm... any themes I hate...
Well, I wouldn't say I HATE Night Falls~Evening Star, but I don't like it that much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365916

As much as I love Sakuya, I hate Luna Clock. Seriously. I can't stand that music for some reason. It's the only time I turn off the sound while playing Touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365916

For me, I'd say I dislike most stage 5 boss themes, which is kind of weird considering I usually love the stage 5 bosses themselves. The only themes I like of them are Faith is for the Transient People and The Tiger-Patterned Vaisravana, which I used to dislike.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365910
When it comes to good music it has, IN certainly isn't loved enough on /jp/.

On an unrelated note, the Prismriver cunts have a pretty good theme. Really fits their bastardly stage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365982

I think IN had the perfect stage four, both when it comes to the music and actually playing through it. The stage and boss themes really meshed well with each other, and it doesn't hurt that I absolutely love Maiden's Cappricio. I'd say IN music just takes time to get used to it, I didn't like most of it until I played through it more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365982

>When it comes to good music it has, IN certainly isn't loved enough on /jp/.

Here's the thing.

Every OST up until IN (and most since, maybe excluding UFO) has been good, but good in an "in your face" way. The melody is obvious, it's good a hook, you know what's going on. The babbies on /jp/ latch on to it.

IN's soundtrack isn't like that. It's atmospheric, it's nocturnal, it's almost ambient. In a word, it's DEEP. Only true deepfags can understand it, so like 95% of /jp/ will hate and fail to grasp

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365982
But I love the IN soundtrack.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365997

I personally think that MoF has the best stage themes and SA has the best boss themes, IN is probably my favorite overall with a mix of both(though it has my favorite stage 2 and stage 2 boss themes, hands down). It was definitely more atmospheric than the others.

After that would be PCB, EoSD, and then UFO.

PCB has the only track that rivals Fall of Fall though. Capital City of Cherry Blossoms in the Sky. Another one where you can practically just feel the stage as you listen to it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7366077

I guess for me, MoF wins out because there's not a single song I wouldn't listen to in that soundtrack. IN comes close with a couple songs being pretty strong, but some others hold it back for me. After that I'd say PCB, then SA, then EoSD and UFO are around tied.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365997
>IN's soundtrack isn't like that. It's atmospheric, it's nocturnal, it's almost ambient. In a word, it's DEEP. Only true deepfags can understand it, so like 95% of /jp/ will hate and fail to grasp

I'm sorry but you were just really asking for it Anon

>>7365916

It's so true. That's part of what makes touhou such an enjoyable series. Even if you don't really like some songs, it's practically impossible to hate or *dis*like them. It's a matter of taste, of course, but by and large 95% of touhou music is just really good and pleasant to listen to

[Anonymous No.]

>>7366230

Oh, and I don't like Flowering Night either.

Really, Sakuya's themes just kinda suck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7366392
Only an enormous faggot could hate Flowering Night.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7366417

Then I must be an enormous faggot, because it's not a good song. It's too short, and very repetitive. Which is a shame, because Sakuya was and still is one of my favorite characters. I just can't stand the music associated with her.

Maid and Pocket Watch is good though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7366453
Unfortunately, I feel the same way.

Flowering Night isn't THAT bad, though. It's tolerable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365997
There is no possible way to get more "in your face" than "History of the Moon"s trumpets.
My god, those trumpets.

Regardless, there's no way I can pick a favorite song, I like too many of then.
I think the only song I've heard that I DIDN'T like is Yukari's theme from the fighting games. Just sounds messy.

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

Favorite stage theme would probably be Last Remote. Boss theme would be Hartmann's Youkai Girl.

I think it's just because I threw SO MANY attempts into SA Extra, a truly disgusting number of tries before I finally got it down. And given Koishi's whole deal it's only natural that the two songs grabbed hold of me in a rather permanent manner, without me realizing it at the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7366482

That one's one of the few where I prefer a remix to the original, honestly. Nazz-can's remix is just too perfect. The original is pretty badass, but... yeah, Nazz-can's was pretty perfect.

The others are Flowering Night, Emotional Skyscraper, and Hiroari Shot a Strange Bird.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365397
>Hating on emotional syscraper.

Thats the only touhou song to cause me to cry without any form of emotional build up OP, It even cheers me up when i fell depresed, and you say it is bad?

It not supposed to be OH GODS HERE COMES EPIC but HOLY SHIT THE SAINT IS ALIVE PRAISE ALL WITH CELEBRATION.

The idea of the song is to be beautiful like a lotus, and the feelings and emotions it gives off, when it slows down makes you think about the time byakuren spent with her disciples.

Sepetette for a dead princess is the equivalent of listening to a Castlevania theme tune, it's sampled, it uses too much from various other music, such as Beethoven and other classical pieces, and It simply drowns itself in vanity, whilst still pulling off addictive melody and chorus.

What gave you the idea, that the resurrection of a Budist person someone who is good, would have an ominous OH GOD EPIC theme that connotes this is the end?

Fuck your shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7366545

You'll note I said it can be uplifting and tense without being menacing, per se. My complaint is that I don't think it feels like an appropriate final boss theme. The fact that it is a good piece musically doesn't change- I simply feel it's not a good piece for the context it's in.

As an aside, Septette was inspired by and worked off of Pavane pour une infante défunte by Ravel. It's not that great musically, but then neither was Pavane. It fits Remilia well though, and makes for a pretty good boss theme because it's got some push to it. That said, Border of Life, History of the Moon, and Suwa Foughten Field pretty much blow it out of the water as final boss themes- to say nothing of Nuclear Fusion.

And I admit my bias here, Utsuho is hands down my favorite Touhou stage 6 boss fight- possibly my favorite over all, though Flan and Ran come close. I fucking love that battle to death. The music, the patterns, everything works. So I'm pretty biased by that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365442
>Yuyuko is a pretty calm, tranquil type, but Border of Life is much better as a final boss theme.
Well, she just kind of stole Spring and has that one power, while Byakuren is just a really powerful magician who's been sealed away or something like that. Reimu's only there because that's where the treasure ship led her.
So yeah, I think it's UFO's plot that sucks, not Byakuren's theme.

[Anonymous No.]

I don't know why, but I've been addicted to the intensity of Maiden's Cappricio. I really hope he has a couple fast paced songs in Ten Desires.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7365786
Lose/Ruse/Whatever Rain (FW Extra), it's so... hell, I have no idea of how to describe it. I suck at describing things, though, so that might be why.
Before last year it was Heartfelt Fancy (SA stage 4), and I wasn't able to explain why I loved it back then either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7366482

Exactly this. I didn't like Hartmann's Youkai Girl in the beginning but the riddiculous amount of attempts I needed for the SA extra slowly changed that.

When I went home from university I listened to Hartmann's Youkai Girl to mentally prepare myself for the upcoming battle.
Oh god I'm sounding really autistic right now

[Anonymous No.]

>>7366762

That's interesting. To tell the truth, there are some songs I don't like once I first listen to them, but then becomes one of my favorites once I listen to it in game rather than standalone. Necrofantasy is one of those songs for me, didn't like it at first, once I made it to Ran and actually fought her some I fell in love with it, and now it's one of my favorite songs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7366762
Surprisingly this always happens to me whenever I hear a new theme.
I expect a great epic song by ZUN and then when I hear it for the first time I think "Well, this wasn't that great" most of the time.
But then I keep listening to the theme over and over again and start to love it

[Anonymous No.]

>>7366762
I haven't even played SA's Extra, but I had the same "hate, then love" experience with Hartmann's Youkai Girl.
First reaction was something like "the fuck is this," but it really grew on me.

[Anonymous No.]

You want urgency in Byakuren's theme? Don't worry, Demetori fixed that right up for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI0jAW7s0YY

[Anonymous No.]

Yeah, Flowering Night isn't so great, especially in that goddamned Night of Nights incarnation.

But yes, seconding requests for more Yuka cosplay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7366943
>>7366943

http://behoimi.org/post?tags=kazami_yuuka&commit=Search

i still need more

[Nitori's Faceless !FRIENDgj1s No.]

>>7367031
http://en.curecos.com/character/pictures?character_master_id=342565
the good, the bad and so on

[Anonymous No.]

My favorite stage theme would be Chinese Tea, but I've really been listening to Sleepless Night of the Eastern Country a lot recently for some reason and it's becoming one of my favorites.

>>7366592
I love Ruse Rain too. FW had really good music, which kinda surprised me because I thought DS's music was average.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7366762
I did that too. Eventually, I would get a spike of adrenaline just from hearing the beginning of the song, and I'd hear the phantoms of the sounds of Koishi's bullets along with the song.

[Anonymous No.]

So, tell me. What about Fires of Hokkai that you do not like?