VN piracy morality thread

[Yｏur ｆavｏrite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ ßängkok No.]

By popular demand.

Discuss it here so you don't have to shit up other threads.

[Anonymous No.]

I have £15 to last me a week, fuck paying £30 for a mid-tier VN.

[Anonymous No.]

lets talk about bangkok being shitposting faggot instead

[Anonymous No.]

I'm surprised so many people actually care.

[Anonymous No.]

>asserting people in bangkok call it bangkok

[Anonymous No.]

I paid around 30k yen last month for figs and downloaded eroge for free.
Feels good man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033197
Nobody cares, bangkok's just making shitty threads as usual.

[Anonymous No.]

VNs or video games, my reasons for pirating are the same: if the developer doesn't release a demo, I will pirate as my demo.

[Anonymous No.]

eroge falls under the "lol paying for born" banner for me. Does anyone actually pay for porn these days unless you're too technologically illiterate to find it?

[Anonymous No.]

The only reason I'm a moralfag about pirating is I'm greedy and I want the people that make what I like to make more.

[Anonymous No.]

>Bangcock thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033204
Nah, he did a good thing. It's like why /b/ exists; so the shit can all be contained in one place instead of overflowing everywhere.

[Anonymous No.]

'If the game is available in your area, buy it. If not, pirate away.' has always been my mantra when it comes to games which also applies to eroge. Too bad, I already read most English translated eroge and their not available here.

[Yｏur ｆavｏrite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ ßängkok No.]

>>7033214
but you can buy and download them from the mg website...

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033217

Not every credit card accepts foreign purchases

[Anonymous No.]

why is there even a discussion about this

holy shit what has happened to /jp/

[Yｏur ｆavｏrite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ ßängkok No.]

>>7033221
the fuck?
visa/mastercard/amex are supposed to be international

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033217
Sure, that is if MG can charge my credit card for that. Too bad my credit card is being a bitch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033225

I for one use a debit card that blocks off any purchases from "unverified sources", and I need to go through all kinds of red tape to get it accepted. I had issues with PlayAsia, so I'd imagine Mangagamer would be similiar

[Anonymous No.]

The thing that annoys me about people who always pirate is their arrogance and stupidy they have about them. It all amounts to them trying to justify getting something for free that other people worked hard to release or create.

For people who apparently hate social norms and modernity, you sure fit the stereotypical "I want this now, now now!" normal crap.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033239
I'm pretty sure the vast majority people who pirate shit don't bother justifying it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033239

Well getting a game early (in terms of major stuff, not eroges like KM), is reason enough to brag when people who pay not only are out of money, but have to wait several days after pirates are playing it

[Anonymous No.]

Eyes can throw out other one.And what sacrifice on blood.I hurt.Who's care?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033239
>For people who apparently hate social norms and modernity.
The "abnormal" culture you refer to revolves completely and entirely around leeching off society, so I don't think you actually know what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033243
Because they don't have any other way to justify their acts?

[Anonymous No.]

I'd love to buy eroge I really like (majikoi), but being both poor and cheap, it's not happening.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033250
Probably because they don't give a shit.

[Yｏur ｆavｏrite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ ßängkok No.]

>>7033239
i pirate because i don't see the price justifying

id pay max $15 for a game

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033239
And those pirates that you are looking down on are actively making a voice patch so that you can enjoy the game that you bought with your hard earned money.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033192
I bet you regret that liberal arts degree now don't you faggot.

[Anonymous No.]

I think I'll just pirate everything available and not give a fuck. It's free and convenient, I'd feel like an idiot for paying for something I could so easily get for free.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033253
And yet you can afford computer and internet.....

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033266

This is exactly how I feel. Maybe I'm scum, but I'm a poor college student who can barely pay his rent. If theres a way I can get free entertainment, I'm doing it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033260
This is fair. The only reason I pay for things is when I feel it is justified.

>>7033261
I'm not looking down on you, but criticizing an attitude. That you feel you deserve things other people spent time and money on for nothing.

>>7033248

So the only thing that seperates you from being a normal is that you leech from the government? Please.

[Anonymous No.]

I pirated all of my /jp/-related material and don't feel bad about any of it.

This post is off-topic because it has nothing to do with VNs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033260
>id pay max $15 for a game
Too bad even second hand games don't cost that much. But hey, games nowadays are disposal, and I don't mind throwing off money just for a game.

>>7033261
Why would one buy an incomplete product? If there's one thing I hate about MG, it's this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033271
Computer and internet are a necessity moralfag scum.
Porn games arent high on my priority list.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033275
>So the only thing that seperates you from being a normal is that you leech from the government? Please.
Another thing that separates us from "normals" is that we don't really give a shit what other people get up to as long as it doesn't adversely affect us personally.

[Yｏur ｆavｏrite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ ßängkok No.]

>>7033277
i occasionally buy games off steam sales even when i know they're shit

last game bought : front mission evolved

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033210
I guess you missed the part where most VNs are less than 20% porn

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033279
>moralfag

>>>/b/

>>7033281
For one thing, don't talk on behalf of anyone. I'm sure there are NEETs who have bought eroge before (myself included). Selfishness + welfare = /jp/? I don't think this is wholly accurate at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033288
Yet you bought Arcana Heart 3.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033279
Unless you have an IT job,or are job hunting online internet isn't necessary. Of course if you actually had some sort of technological job ,you wouldn't be a drain on society and this thread wouldn't exist

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033289
If you like buying eroge, that's cool. If you think people with should buy eroge if they can afford it, more power to you. If you're going to moan and bitch about how people who pirate are whiny self-entitled scum, you can take it somewhere else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033294

You're talking to people who are socially inept. Without internet, what would they do?

If someone is poor, they make the choice of what are the most important things to spend their limited money on... for people that go to a board like /jp/, a computer and internet would be at the very top of that list

Plus, it more than pays for itself with all the stuff you can pirate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033294
You're talking to people who would cut their food budget in thirds and move into a 4'x4'x4' steel crate before giving up the internet.

[Anonymous No.]

import vns are overpriced and there aren't many officially released ones that interest me

i'm paranoid about buying pornography of cartoon characters, would much rather keep it as nothing but a file on my hd

pirating it is free and the little expendable income i have could be used on better things

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033298

>the crackpipe pays for itself with all the drugs I can do!

see how retarded you sound.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033296
>self-entitled scum

The post I was replying to said;

>Another thing that separates us from "normals" is that we don't really give a shit what other people get up to as long as it doesn't adversely affect us personally.

That is being self-entitled scum.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033294

next you're gonna say unless you have a job that involves being a movie/tv critic, theres no reason to have a tv, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033305
This would be a good analogy if all dealers were willing to give you unlimited amounts of crack cocaine for free.

They don't, so it's not.

You're a retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033302
You know this release is a digital download right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033302

So buy download edition.problem solved.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033305

Not at all. It would only sound the same if once you bought a "crackpipe", you could have drugs for life instantly, and for free.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033305
The drugs can't be obtained for free.

See how retarded you sound?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033307
Good thing I don't give a shit about your moral judgments.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033308
Depends. I have a TV for playing console games and watching movies. If you mean cable ,then no I don't have it. Why is it so hard for anon to grasp that if you want it ,buy it. If you don't then don't play it. That simple.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033294
Yes I have a job and I need internet to check my mails for my work purposes. Also on the internet there is something call online shopping which I also use.
50bucks for a porn game? I wonder who would spend so much on that.

Pic related. It is me giving back to the 2D industry.

[Anonymous No.]

why the fuck do you people care what i spend my money on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033316
I wanted it, but I didn't buy it, and I played it anyway.

What are you going to do about it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033316

I did want it. But not 50 dollars want it. So I pirated it to stick it to them for being a dick with their pricing

u mad?

[Anonymous No.]

It is noble to pay for material objects. VNs aren't material objects lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033315
I don't expect you to and I don't care what you or anyone else thinks of me either. You come off as a cranky child who read his first book on nihilism though~

Shall we just stop this discussion since nobody really gives a shit what anyone else thinks, even though we keep replying to each other?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033316
Don't be silly. What you do on your personal computer in privacy does not affect other people. If you choose to not buy it and not play it as opposed to pirate it and play it, it will only affect your enjoyment, it won't affect the company. Maybe some people will feel more "morally right", while others will just enjoy themselves without bothering themselves with all this sillyness.

[Anonymous No.]

>$50
>porn game
>digital download
>no voices

nope.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033326
It is noble to pay for material objects. Services aren't material objects lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033328
And you sound like an insufferable prick.

>Shall we just stop this discussion since nobody really gives a shit what anyone else thinks?
What a splendid idea.

[Anonymous No.]

what I gotta ask is.. why is everyone bothering to sage on a board that moves as slow as this in the middle of the night in America? Whether you sage or not, its still gonna stay at the top of the page

[Anonymous No.]

Support VN writers!

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033338
If you sage, it might fall down a bit. If you don't sage, it's guaranteed to stay at the top.

Sage also comes preloaded in my email field.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033338
Why do you choose to bump a worthless thread whose sole purpose was to get off all this trolling from actually important threads where people were discussing the game or working on the voice patch instead of bickering.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033338
It keeps this shitty thread at the top of the front page and it's not the middle of the night, it's the middle of the morning.

[Anonymous No.]

this is calt.look this distortion.wwwwwwwwwww

[Anonymous No.]

So, a thread about piracy when a VN is released has brought in outsiders who don't even know what sage is.

Enjoy your "bros", pirates.

[Anonymous No.]

To people who pirate VNs

Are there anythings that are pirateable (movies, tv shows, music, video games, software, etc) that you actually buy?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033350
These outsiders were here long before this thread was made, bro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033352
I watch movies in the cinema and I bought blizzard games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033352
I wonder if they buy figs?

Since they are poor (as is the common "excuse"), they should probably just steal them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033359
How do you steal something made in another country.

I pirate most things save a few games I really liked, and books, I most times buy books (manga/tankoban included)

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033359
If I steal a figure, that's somebody who owned a figure who doesn't have it anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033356
Are you me?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033364
And if I steal Koihime off /jp/, that's somebody who owned Koihime who doesn't have it anymore. Erm wait, the guy that uploaded it still has it in his HDD.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033364
Mangagamer owned time and money before working on this project, which they lost on the project.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033359

Well I've stolen a few games from my local walmart when they weren't in the big glass case, other than that obviously I might be forced to buy anything that might require a CD key to go online, or can't be downloaded or emulated.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033371
The amount of time and money Mangagamer expends translating the game is not affected by whether or not I choose to pirate it. My (hypothetical) download did not cause a programmer in a house to spend an extra hour slaving over code.

[Anonymous No.]

To the people complaining about the prices, if that's the only reason you pirate, why don't you buy every now and then? Keep a list for the prices you'd pay for what you've pirated, and when it has reached a few dozen dollars or so, buy a game of that price.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033371
You still can't claim there is any difference (profit-wise) from one person who never buys the game and one who pirates it and plays it. It may be argued that the second person may even be better as he could promote the game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033371

Is it really so much more of a crime then the rip off price they are trying to get people to pay?

[Yｏur ｆavｏrite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ ßängkok No.]

>>7033376
i buy games that i have interest in on steam when they go on sale for less than $15

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033359
I wouldn't steal a figure, but if I had a machine that could magically make me a copy of a figure that I wanted, I'd be all for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033378

No, I can't. But they may not even break even. If they are at a loss, then it is a "bad" thing. Even so, I would suspect that most "profits" would go towards funding their next project. We are talking about a company localizing eroge here, they are marketing to a niche audience in an already niche community. It isn't like they will be rolling around in NEET autism welfare payments.

>>7033385

And who is it who developed and produced this machine? Would you pay anything to them if they asked for a price lower than an actual fig?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033393
I suppose for the purposes of this argument, it would mean that my laptop had magically and mysteriously gained the ability to conjure figures out of thin air.

That would be pretty cool.

[Anonymous No.]

Personally, I'd buy VN's if they were available in a store chain like Best Buy over here in America. When I'm in Japan, I just drop by Akihabara and pick that shit up.

Not really into:
>owning digital copies
>sending out my credit card information
>waiting for physical copies to arrive

[Anonymous No.]

So,do you want what kind of any response?I feel bad.And how dirty NINJA.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033393
There's something called investing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033393
Of course I would.
I paid for a ps2 modchip, R4 card and a hacked psp.
I am a soon to be a proud owner of a CFW PS3 and a R4 3DS. I have no remorse whatsoever by doing this.
Maybe if you are such a moralfag, stop downloading animu and subscribe for crunchyroll. Also you should stop going to youtube since jewtube is a den of piracy as well and yeah I am sure you have never download a single mp3 in your life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033393
Which is why those that can should contribute. This discussion itself is pointless. People do understand that if MG does hit the 2000 mark, we'll probably be seeing Shin Koihime in the future. However, to assume that everyone can contribute and to look down on those that can't isn't correct (not that anybody cares).

>>7033393
> And who is it who developed and produced this machine? Would you pay anything to them if they asked for a price lower than an actual fig?
Price of the resources that took to make the machine. Physical stuff takes resources, unlike digital stuff (which only needs storage and bandwidth). I'd actually say that such machines may very well become more common in the near future (there are already some, but the resource cost is still ~500-1000$ at least): mini-factories which can be used to make other mini-factories as well as any 3D design of your choosing (such as 3D figs). You may also choose to donate some money to the fig's creator if you like it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033414

We'll likely see it regardless, just without voices most likely if it doesn't hit 2000. Koihime Musou is already their fastest selling title by far according to twitter. There is no reason not to get the sequel

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033410
Stop getting so angry because someone has a different opinion. And don't use "words" like moralfag. It makes you look like a dunce from /b/.

I don't have a problem with people who pirate, just people who have a shitty attitude without ever admitting outright they are just selfish.

I just support things I think are worth supporting. If a company like Aksys brings over something I really like (such as 999) I will buy it. I won't just pirate it and give nothing in return and make excuses for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033414
I've already said I'm not looking down on people. I don't care if people pirate or not, it is just the attitude some people have. I'm 100% sure I'm pissing the shit out of people. But as you said, nobody cares anyway. I certainly don't.

Storage and bandwidth require physical things to exist, too.

[Anonymous No.]

sauce all over op

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033434
> Storage and bandwidth require physical things to exist, too.
Bandwidth requires electricity. Storage merely requires hardware which would exist regardless of wether one has a copy of some data on it or not. In the end, the effective cost of data is too low to consider, unless you're talking about many terabytes of data. Even if you do consider these prices, they'll usually be quite low and manageable (unless you live in a country like Canada which can't get a decent fast uncapped internetwork going on, in which case I'm sorry you have to live in such conditions).

[Anonymous No.]

You'll never convince someone on a student budget who can't afford his preferred entertainment to stop pirating if that's his only way to access said entertainment. Telling people to try their best supporting their favorite developers as far as they can afford it is another thing, but it's impossible to convert most people over to "only play what you can afford".

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033431
>Stop getting so angry
I am not sure how you can get that from my post.
I just have sage in my email field and having it there doesnt mean I am currently raging hard and smashing everything around me.
Thanks for supporting the industry on my behalf so I can continue pirating them.

[Anonymous No.]

I really need to stop responding to threads just because I think somebody is wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033456
I'm not trying to do that. But I don't particularly care about your situation to be honest. I'm NEET and scrimp and save for the trash I buy, it may be naive but I don't particularly care about that either.

When someone pirates EVERYTHING, and has an attitude of trying to justify it with idiotic semantics or just being a moron in general is when I get kind of annoyed.

It would be better for someone to just say they are selfish and don't give a shit than to argue with flimsy arguments about not having actually stolen anything, as if intellectual property, time, effort and cost mean nothing.

[Anonymous No.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qkyt1wXNlI

You guize. This is a doggy dog world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033468
I don't care about sage, at all. I have "stealth sage" on pretty much all the time. Your post just sounded angry and as if you were trying to provoke anger.

>Thanks for supporting the industry on my behalf so I can continue pirating them.

There is no need to be a moron.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033480
I hate you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033483
>I get kind of annoyed
>you were trying to provoke anger
It is not my problem if you cant see the sarcasm and the irony the post is trying to provoke.
Hypocrite much?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033474
Well, when someone has that kind of attitude it's reasonable to think that they would like trolling, griefing etc and people like you are just ripe and satisfying targets.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033488

I can see it, it is just very, very poor.

I think you are the hypocrite in any case. And I'm honestly tired of talking to a child. I'm going to fuck my flip hole and go to bed.

Have fun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033491
Sure. It may seem like I'm a "good target" but I really don't give a shit (even though I keep replying, I just don't have much else to do at the moment). If a kid is jerking off over making someone on the internet angry, they would be dissapointed at how easy I am taking it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033480
I wonder if eroge devs feel the same way as Gaiman does.

[Anonymous No.]

Am I the only one who realizes that it's not completely morally defensible to pirate stuff, but don't really prioritize doing morally defensible things? It's not like I go out of my way to be evil, but doing the right thing all the time takes so much effort.

[Anonymous No.]

What's there to discuss about morality? You can get shit for free without consequences, so you do what any logical being does and get shit for free.
If there are consequences one does simply consider the risk/reward ratio and makes a choice from there.

[Anonymous No.]

I hate to say it, but the ease of pirating are making the younger generation even more hesistant to work. Why work if you're still living with your parents if all the stuff you want can easily be pirated?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033558
Money isn't the best incentive to work anyway. It may give some extra boost, but you won't have acceptable work morale unless you find something about your work meaningful, or if you have some kind of religious conviction that every job deserves to be done properly. I certainly wouldn't want to pay people to work if their only motivation to work is to buy video games.

[Anonymous No.]

>I wouldn't steal a figure, but if I had a machine that could magically make me a copy of a figure that I wanted, I'd be all for it.
Already exists, and apart from material costs, it's free, too. It just still needs a lot of tweaking.
I'll probably have access to such a device within a couple of weeks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033558
How do you pirate a figure

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033570
Get a Reprap. Buy plastic. Download model. Print.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033572
Next-gen pirating

The future is EXCITING.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033579
I wonder, how long will it take...?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033499
Resorting to childish low insults when you have no counter arguments?
Stay dry anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033593
That is all you were doing for the last half hour.

[Anonymous No.]

inb4 whiteknights

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033632
First strike and protection from black for just WW, motherfucker.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033558
This might actually be kind of true. I remember when I was in early high school I actually wanted to get a part-time job so I can buy anime and shit, nowadays everything is so easily pirated that I just don't give a fuck. It also causes me to view the inherent value to be significantly less than it might have been if I had bought it.

[Anonymous No.]

Holy shit, what happened to /jp/, there's no /jp/ers left, its all /v/ and /a/. What the fuck. I know you you guys are hiding on some other website but please come back. I know for a fact you aren't in this thread... /jp/ is not this retarded,

[Anonymous No.]

It's true that in a market with thriving piracy, less games will be made; but on the other hand, most games that get made, if we're honest, are worthless rip-offs of a few titles that had some artistic value. So, less games getting made doesn't necessarily make much difference for the consumer. The issue seems almost entirely about maintaining an industry that makes money out of doing its best to clone other, successful titles and do its best to avoid any real creative work.

The other problem is the middlemen, the distributors or publishers, what have you. They have been taking advantage of both consumers and producers for a long time, using their position in the market to take ever larger chunks from the profit that would otherwise go to those who originally made the product. If this is the case, which it seems to be, then thriving piracy is a rational reaction by the consumer to counter the warped prices being charged by these companies.

Still, you can't ignore the producers. They've been uncreative, but maybe there are other reasons for that. Maybe its the nature of this market, with lots of piracy and exploitative middlemen, that makes them avoid riskier, more original productions. If that's the case, then you can't help but sympathise with their position and see piracy as somewhat immoral. On the other hand, maybe this is just desserts for being so cowardly with their production decisions -- who knows?

Fundamentally, however, it's about technology. The freedoms granted by the Internet are irresistible even to the more loyal and well-behaved consumer. It seems inevitable that markets for media material will continue to shrink in this context, regardless of the moral issues.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033737
They were making a big fuss in the actual koihime threads, so luckily bangkok made this thread for them so they wouldn't ruin the good threads. Actual /jp/ers (who really couldn't give a damn about any of this drama) were hard at work on the voice patch, they just finished preparing the scripts for the voicepatch guy to compile, now we just need to wait for him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033737
I haven't posted in months due to the deplorable state the board has fallen in, but I still come here now and then. I'm just a person and shouldn't assume what other old /jp/ posters are doing, but I like to believe some of them are still here, lurking silently like I do. Or maybe I'm alone in being too attached to this board to give it up even though it's beyond hope.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033737
the VNTL status thread attracts outsiders each week, and every new western vn release does too. Touhou 13 didn't help. /jp/ is approaching the point where it'll become /a/2

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033744
>I'm just a person and shouldn't assume what other old /jp/ posters are doing, but I like to believe some of them are still here, lurking silently like I do. Or maybe I'm alone in being too attached to this board to give it up even though it's beyond hope.

Don't worry.

[Anonymous No.]

I sometimes buy anime because it actually does support the anime industry in japan a bit. I buy vns sometimes because i want the box.

I can read Japanese. If there's no box I'm stealing the fucking game.

I do not pirate any multiplayer games. Ever.

Solution: multiplayer eroge

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033789
> I do not pirate any multiplayer games. Ever.
But I do, it's called server emulators and unofficial servers.

[Anonymous No.]

Fans who like something enough will want a physical copy of the work(s), that much is only natural.
People buy things they enjoy.

Digital copies however, are not much different from a mere donation. You don't get a physical product, instead you get a lousy piece of data, sometimes even inferior to the cracked piece of data you could get elsewhere.
Granted, there might be some really hardcore fans around who might consider donating money to their favorite company of choice, for little to no other reason at all other than how they want to support the company.

But digital copies really don't have anything they can compete with. Digital copies really are only them asking for donations, because their actual product has little to no value in digital form. Only people with money to throw away buys them frequently.

[Anonymous No.]

The last few weeks have been atrocious. I feel like I've lost a home of sorts. I know that sounds dramatic but it feels true.

The point of total shit (compared to the shit before) happened around the time UBW adaptation was released. It has been horrible ever since.

The people who are claiming /jp/ is 100% pro-piracy and anyone who disagrees is new are being foolish. Debates about this shit always happened, just never to this extent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033805
There's not a lot else to talk about, I think a lot of people are sort of holding their breath for things like R8 and the next Touhou

[Anonymous No.]

Haha .. awesome.. sometimes it's really funny to read the threads here

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033805
Shouldn't you be happy that all this is now in a single thread which you can hide and forget this exists at all. The alternative is them discussing this all over the damn VN threads, which is much uglier.

[Anonymous No.]

etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033809,1
I honestly didn't think /jp/ of all boards would care about piracy.

[Anonymous No.]

　　　人　　　　　
　　（＿_）　　　　
　 （＿＿）　　　
　（ ＿＿ ）　　　　
　（　・∀・）　Welcome to the shit thread of shit.
　（つ　　 つ　　　This thread is a shit.
　｜ ｜　|　　　　　 I welcome you.
　（_＿）＿）

[Anonymous No.]

Really ? Morality ? in porn games ? seriously ? you people really want to talk about morality when it comes to porn ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033888
Not all VNs are porn games retard

[Anonymous No.]

I don't think piracy is immoral as long as it isn't used to profit. If people like something (and aren't very poor), they will surely buy a copy, merchandise or something else (depending on what is available and what kind of media we're talking about here). If they don't, the authors/artists/releasers of the media/whatever don't really deserve to get the moneys of the users.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033888
Why not? While all VN:s aren't porn, most of the moral problems related to porn are destroyed when we consider VN:s are fictional. The kind of bad things that might be related to real porn business don't really exist in 2D porn.

[Anonymous No.]

what bad things ? people fuck, that's it.

you really think drugging and raping 2d character is more moral than fuckin a teenage pornstar ?


you're still a perv and you'll burn in hell.

The same morality you morons use is what keeps those games reaching western audience and censors shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033902
I mainly meant poor women being forced into it, exploited, etc. I don't know how big those problems actually are or if they really even exist, but I think I've heard something of the like before. In 2D you can also do anything without hurting anyone and fictional characters can't really be "exploited". Nothing immoral about regular porn either, as long as everyone is in it willingly.
Oh, I guess I should have paid more attention to the rest of your post before replying but whatever.

[Yｏur ｆavｏrite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ ßängkok No.]

>>7033741
>It's true that in a market with thriving piracy, less games will be made; but on the other hand, most games that get made

They told me that back in the 1980 when the vidya industry were a niche industry.
They sure got smaller today aren't they.

[Anonymous No.]

the immoral one is player and creators.

Anyway, publishers want to get 50$ for 5 year old low budget game, and you say i'm immoral thief ? you're ripping off naive idiots.

I don't care there's no market, I don't care you need income, It's your fuckin job to sell the game, not mine. If you want me to buy it you better damn well make effort, cos crappy translations, cut out contents, high price sure as hell doesn't look good.

If japanese want to make money on the west they need to try instead of fuckin schoolgirls. All i see is bunch of retards who have trouble understanding western market. No just eroge but all japanese titles are like that, eroge is just more retarded than the rest.

You don't want me to copy your game ? than make me want to buy it. western devs can do it, so why the fuck can't you ?

japanese publishers are and devs are just a bunch of whiny pussy scammers ;/

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033931
This man has a point.

[Yｏur ｆavｏrite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ ßängkok No.]

>>7033931
the japs aren't capable of understanding the global market.

look at all of their games that are made to cater the west

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033558
In the end people who didn’t pay for game get BETTER product than the ones who paid ( game is missing font files, which cause text to display improperly – pirates have it already fixed, customers still wait for MG response; Registration doesn’t work on certain 64bit systems, and customers who paid for product can’t even start the game yet, while many pirates already finished it. MG official stance on this problem: “disable antivirus and firewall”.; Pirates will get voice patch two days after release, god knows when customers will get it… ).

[Anonymous No.]

You moralfags are quite retarded. In economics, one of the main schools of thought revolves around the ideas of a man named Dupuit. He put forth the example of charging a toll to cross a bridge. The question becomes "How much should we charge for people to use the bridge?" His answer is that the ideal, most efficient price is one that changes per person, aka "price discrimination." Essentially, the more you need to cross that bridge, the more you should pay. If somebody is completely indifferent to crossing the bridge, they should pay nothing. This is a cornerstone of modern economic thought. The more you want/need it, the more you should have to pay for it, because its value to you is much higher than it's value to me. Likewise, I should not have to pay more because it is valuable to you, when it is not valuable to me.

When you look at people who pirate VNs, music, movies, etc, the vast majority of those people wouldn't buy the thing they are pirating if they couldn't pirate it. Basically, it isn't worth the money to them, so they won't spend it. This is natural behavior in a capitalist world. There is nothing wrong with it. But if they were cheaper, and you didn't have huge amounts of hassle involved with buying them from a foreign market full of people who wish they could go back to their isolationist economic stone age... then you'd see more people buying the product.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if NOBODY pirated those VNs, they still wouldn't see an increase in sales. I guarantee you that. It would be such a marginal increase that it would be barely noticeable. The real effect would be that they would lose a valuable advertising opportunity to show off their product to a market that normally hears nothing about their creations.

[Anonymous No.]

152 posts and the thread is still retarded.

Look, this shit is pretty simple: If you are willing to pay the price, you buy it. If you're not, don't and pirate it. If you only pirate even though you have more than enough money yet refuse to buy anything you're a cheap and greedy faggot, however, you're not making the company lose any money. If you only buy then you are either illogical, not really passionate o rich. Illogical because there are some things that you should test before buying and unpassionate because you don't really want to play a lot of games in the first place (unlike some pirates).

That's it, there shouldn't be anymore discussion than that.

[Anonymous No.]

This should have been a POMF thread, but you assholes ruined it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034158
The biggest problem with such a discussion is that one stance seemingly has to be above the other because both sides think themselves to be superior to their opposites.

While, sadly for them, the truth is pretty much what you have just said.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034491
There's a board for that.

[Anonymous No.]

anyone who wastes money on anything they can get for free is retarded

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034548
So I guess you steal all your food, your books, your cable, your internet?

[Anonymous No.]

The end of piracy will be the end of the Internet for me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034548

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034562
I would, if I could.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

If you like buying, buy it and shut up. If you pirate, pirate and shut up. Thinking you're better than the other guy for doing either and being obnoxious about it is retarded and you should get out of /jp/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033805

Better than every topic being nothing but tohou

[Anonymous No.]

Pirates are going to pirate until the day it's no longer worth the effort.

Why are we even discussing this? I figured /jp/ was smarter than this.

[Anonymous No.]

Real pirates pirate more stuff than they could ever realistically play

-looks at my 700 gb folder of games/vns I've pirated-

[Yｏur ｆavｏrite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ ßängkok No.]

>>7034719
i bet you never really play any of them

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034719
>-looks at my 700 gb folder of games/vns I've pirated-

-punches wall, is 900 pounds-

[Anonymous No.]

Its really funny how its only /v/ and /a/ in here. and all the /jp/ers left or are somewhere else. Im from /m/ and I can tell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034758

Anything without Tohou is allergic to the regular /jp/, so its no surprise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034744
Curse you rich people and your terabyte hard drives.

[Anonymous No.]

Who gives a shit, I doubt anyone here is a Japanese game publisher so piracy doesn't affect you at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034840

If all the buyfags lately are any indication, there are many MG developers here who are being effected

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034875
MG?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034763
1TB cost less than 50 bucks bro.

[Anonymous No.]

btw long time pirate here but seriously, I hate world-play acrobatics [downloadan is not stealan) even more than moralfags

Anyways, all of you suck and you should get some root and support the piracy

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034888
But I can't justify buying a new hard drive when my 300 GB works fine. I mean, it costs the same now, but who has money to upgrade?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034883

Mangagamer, the company that released Koihime Musou and started all of these pirate threads recently

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034894
>world-play acrobatics
But... you know. The ones claiming its theft are the ones who are playing with words.

Piracy is no more stealing than taking photographs of people is kidnapping.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034899
I have a 1TB drive solely for PS3 games and my collection of translated eroge on one of my external drives is definitely bigger than 300GBs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034907
Stop your acrobatics. It's stupid and wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034907Piracy is no more stealing than taking photographs of people is kidnapping.

STOP STEALING MY SOUL YOU HARPIES

[Yｏur ｆavｏrite Aｎonymous thaｔ liｖes iｎ ßängkok No.]

>>7034913
fun fact : you are wrong

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034909
I don't doubt that. I saw a 1.5 TB external yesterday. It's a pity that the guy who had it probably wasn't even going to use it all. He was computer illiterate.

[Anonymous No.]

I doubt a 2TB for 80 bucks the other day off of Amazon. It almost makes me wonder why the government doesn't spy on people buying hard drives this big. Theres no reason to ever have a HD that big outside of pirating tons and tons of shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034909
And why do you store them? Just delete what you don't need anymore. If you very badly need it again, you can always redownload it.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034909
That's why a delete every game after I finish playing it. You only get huge collections like that if you download a bunch of stuff and never actually get around to doing it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034916
Cool story bro. But for many reasons, you aren't even qualified to discuss in such a thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034921
Because it's the smart thing to do. Why should I make myself dependent on mirrors if I can store the data myself?

[Anonymous No.]

"hey guys why ever keep something when we're done with it, especially when we can get nothing in return for it and have to redownload and wait if i ever have the urge to use it again!"

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034936
Unless you are downloading a really obscure doujinsoft game from Share, you can just download it again. It's not that smart to be spending all this money on hard drives.

[Sudo !Tohsaka8ks No.]

>>7034947
$100 isn't a lot of money.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034947

Hard drives are one of the best investment anyone who pirates can make.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034950
I have around $2,000 in life savings and no income. $100 is 20% of my total worth, unless I get a job and that's a laugh.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034947
With anime, eroge and manga it's best to get what you want as fast as possible and store it. Try getting 5+ year old manga or anime in time. It won't happen. Instead, I will just quick swap some drive and have fun.

For games and movies I store mostly stuff (90%) that I'm interested in anyways

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034958

Especially in terms of backing stuff up. Could you imagine if you ever got a virus and forced a factory restore that made you lose all your stuff?

[Sudo !Tohsaka8ks No.]

>>7034965
Well it's not a lot if you have regular income, but I suppose if you're jobless it might be. Though I suppose getting a bigger hard drive would be the least of your worries in that case.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034958
>pointless investment
It doesn't really improve anything, unless you have a hdd fewer than 100GB.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034971
And nothing of value was lost.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034986

Some 1080p anime series couldn't even be fit on a 100gb hard drive. With the size of stuff these days, you'd be a fool to not have an external HD unless you already had over a TB of space to begin with

[Anonymous No.]

I don't care about this subject so I'm not going to bother to read the thread, but I do find it amusing that Anonymous of Bangkok feels the need to change his name every day to avoid being filtered.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7035000
What? You're either talking about 50+ episode series or BDMVs.

>>7034921
Because the days of getting this shit for free might end someday.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7035000
Or you don't watch anime. Books are tiny, for example.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033239
This. Completely this.

I accept software piracy as an unavoidable consequence of the world today, and I do so occasionally practice it myself, but I don't really see why there are so many shameless folks who feel obligated to wear it as some badge of honor. Really, I think the rise of in "moralfaggotry" is due to an exact counterbalance to the rise of this behavior.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7035061
Books are books. It's not like I don't store ebooks though :3

[Anonymous No.]

>>7035038

Card Captor Sakura Blu Ray off the top of my head, is about 120 GB.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7035070
I believe it would be pretty hard to find someone who wouldn't want physical copies of merchendize of their favorite franchise, pirate or not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7034922
Jesus wasn't the first pirate, God was.

"12 And she said: 'As the LORD thy God liveth, I have not a cake, only a handful of meal in the jar, and a little oil in the cruse; and, behold, I am gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die.'
13 And Elijah said unto her: 'Fear not; go and do as thou hast said; but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it forth unto me, and afterward make for thee and for thy son.
14 For thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel: The jar of meal shall not be spent, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the LORD sendeth rain upon the land.'
15 And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah; and she, and he, and her house, did eat many days.
16 The jar of meal was not spent, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the LORD, which He spoke by Elijah."
--1 Kings 17:12-16

[Anonymous No.]

I will say many more.But can't say difficulty.Other person feel same like me?At all costs please discussion this situation by the other way.

[Anonymous No.]

this thread is massively retarded and i hope all of you fags will get banned

[Anonymous No.]

*POMF*
What are we gonna do in this thread?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7035092 Card Captor Sakura Blu Ray off the top of my head, is about 120 GB.
Coalgirls quality encoding.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033474

The reason pirates say "it's not stealing" is because it *isn't*. Theft deprives the person you are stealing from of the item you are stealing, whereas piracy does not. And nor is it intrinsically "selfish" to pirate, either, because by itself it does not actually cause any harm to anyone.

I won't deny that there are selfish pirates, but not all pirates are selfish. Some of them *gasp* merely have different ideas about whether a company has the right to control the distribution of a particular sequence of 1s and 0s, or about whether it is in any way immoral to download something you would never otherwise have purchased.

I, personally, would say that the western VN localisation businesses actually *benefit* from piracy, because I very much doubt that the majority of people who buy their stuff would have gotten interested in it without the ability to torrent a copy. And, like several people have said, most of those who pirate VNs would almost certainly not have paid for them otherwise, either due to not having enough money or due to not wanting to go through the hassle of doing so.

Oh, and another thing. Do not assume that, just because the *US* has a localised version, the rest of the world does. It is nigh-on impossible to get hold of VNs or anime over here, excepting a few very well-known series, and honestly I don't think I would want to risk trying to get a copy through customs even *if* I was OK with all the hassle that trying to buy it from overseas entails. Plus, I do not want a physical copy.

So, basically, no, I'm not selfish, just lazy, disorganised, poor, unwilling to be ripped off and wanting a digital version that is simply not legally available. Plus, many VNs are not even available first-hand any more, and second-hand purchasing no more gives money to the company that made the VN than piracy does.

[Anonymous No.]

A copy of the software has a monetary value, from the development/localization/etc, that is attached to it. This is the price that the buyers pay, and the price that the pirates avoid.

There is no counter-argument to this, it's a statement of fact.

If you attained a copy of the software without paying the amount they decided the software is worth, you have deprived the creators of the value they decided the software was worth. This is also a statement of fact.

If someone makes something and wants money for it, and then someone takes it for free, what is that normally called?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7039524
>you have deprived the creators of the value they decided the software was worth
No, I'm not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7039524

Yes, but if that's true, then that price has already been paid, by the person owning the copy that is being distributed. Thus, they have the right to give it to other people, by your logic.

I have not deprived the creators of anything because I did not intend to otherwise pay them for it, and they do not own the particular copy on the computer of the person who I downloaded it from, and thus I cannot be stealing from them. The only person I could be stealing from is the person who I got the copy from, but they gave it to me willingly, and thus it is not stealing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7039524
So borrowing a copy of a game from a friend is tantamount to stealing that game. Makes perfect sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7039524

So, by your logic, selling pirated games should be legal, right? After all, you can't steal something by giving it away to someone else...

[Anonymous No.]

>>7039524
So if I develop a game, declare that it's worth a billion dollars, and you pirate it from me, have you really just deprived me of one billion dollars? Would that hold up in court?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7039807
No, because it's shit.

[Anonymous No.]

Out of curiosity, what is OPs pic from?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040413

Well, that's what the other guy was arguing and, indeed, it's the only way that defining copyright infringement as theft could *possibly* work.

Unlike physical items, data costs nothing to produce and has no intrinsic value. Thus, there is no way to set even a baseline price for the item in question to determine how much you're "stealing", and nothing to prevent someone from doing exactly what he's claiming.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040476
No, you don't understand. It isn't about the data or the game. Nobody really cares about that as long as they get their money. It's a business and you'll get sued for jeopardizing their business, past, present, or future.

To do that they'll throw whatever bullshit they can find at you. A million dollar game is shit and nobody will buy it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040476
>data costs nothing to produce

Oh boy, the acrobatics are at it again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7039679
Stealing yourself the license to play it. That is if no other laws in your country exist that explicitly allow you to make and share copies (under certain conditions).

[Anonymous No.]

Do eroge really cost $50 US? Holy shit. All you're doing is translating text.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040524
No, they're licensing, translating text, marketing and distributing. Maybe even "uncensoring" or doing other botched work to localize it.

I would say the largest sum comes from the licensing fees since Japanese eroge are pretty expensive themselves. Some $100 or more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040494

Doesn't matter, it's still not theft.

>>7040495

It's not "acrobatics", it's fact. That particular copy of the game did not cost a penny for the company to produce, and any "value" that it holds is solely down to what *they* decide to charge for it. Ergo, the million pound game argument is entirely valid.

>>7040511

You can't "steal" a license, at least not in that manner. Plus, that argument implies that the company owns the game and you are merely "renting" it from them, since that is the only way you could possibly argue that you're implicitly "stealing" the license to play the game when you download it (and even then it's a pretty damn dubious assertion). Which, to me, is a *very* disturbing concept.

And, BTW, that would *still* outlaw things like rental and borrowing games from your friends, at least if the company in question said so in the license.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040603
>data costs nothing to produce
>Have to pay people to produce it

Are you fucking retarded?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040620
Data costs very little to reproduce, enough to make the cost for anything non-multi-TB-sized irrelevant.
The first time a data is produced, it costs time and sometimes, money. It costs almost nothing to make a copy. It is thus an effective public good. Some governments enforce an artificial monopoly of such public goods, this is known as IP law. Most of us will ignore such monopolies, at least if we act as individuals. If we are to act as legitimate companies, we will abide by local regulations as required.

>>7040511
What license? Playing it without being given permission? Using some string of bits in a way that I want to use and that is not approved by those that first wrote that data? Big deal.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do think people should be payed for data they produced for selling, however I think they should merely be payed for that act, not for the act of putting a price on each copy which can be duplicated infinitely (to the limits of the hardware).

[Anonymous No.]

I don't mind stealing from "official" translation companies as I would rather see the entire official localization scene die off. Fan translations are usually much better (and more timely now a days).

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040620

The data itself costs nothing to produce. If it did, then copyright piracy wouldn't be an issue, in the same way that it's not an issue for cars.

Anyway, if you have to make a comparison, copyright infringement is most similar to purchasing fake goods (e.g. fake Nike trainers or fake Rolex watches). Which, last time I checked, was not described as theft by *anyone*, even the companies hit by it.

[Anonymous No.]

Pirate all you fucking want, I do it too.

Just stop trying to make silly justifications for why you do it.

[Anonymous No.]

Because I can

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040673

Again, just because *you* think like that, that does not mean *I* do. For me, if anything, it's a matter of convinience (although cost does play a part, simply because I could not *afford* to pay for even a tenth of the stuff I have downloaded), because torrenting stuff is so much easier than actually buying it would be (especially in the case of VNs and the like).

In general, if I like a game, I will go out and buy it, unless the company in question has pissed me off with retarded DRM which, ironically, is much less of an issue with torrented versions of the game (which generally come with a crack *anyway*) than with the actual legal version (which requires me to have the CD in the drive and even then often won't work unless I uninstall Daemon Tools and God-knows what else). So, I have got to the point where even if I *do* buy a game legally, I often have to torrent it as well in order to get a safe and working crack.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040673
For me its more of a spur of the moment. I've pirated every VN I've read, and only bought a few of them I could find later on just because. I've done this for plenty of video games and music. I do not purchase them because they are my favorites, I purchase them because I came across the page to pay by chance and I decide to buy it to have a physical copy to look pretty on my shelves. I have the money to buy whatever I want, I just do not feel like it sometimes, and sometimes I do.

I did get a good rush from setting up a pirated copy of oblivion a while back. One of the best games I've played on PC, but I still have no bought it. I keep telling myself I'll get it next time I go to a store that would carry it, but I do not go out much so I'm just fooling myself.

Either way, what I'm trying to say is, people have different reasons to pirate, you cannot lump them all together like that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040647
>copyright infringement is most similar to purchasing fake goods (e.g. fake Nike trainers or fake Rolex watches).
This is a comparison I can't fully agree with. This is the same shit which lumps copyright infringement as counterfeiting (see ACTA bullshit).
The thing with counterfeit goods is that they tend to be of lower quality. Not so with pirated data, it's identical to the for-money version, and sometimes even better, faster, more stable if the DRM is removed. It is essentially a 0-cost product which can even be superior to the commercial one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040643
>>7040647
You people are coming up with some pretty retarded arguments. Talking about cost of data transfer? TB hard disks? Are you really that stupid?

Data usually costs a lot to produce when it is significant enough to be sold as a product. It's the assembly of this data and the business of commercial distribution that costs money, and time. That time is the time of people, who get paid, because they're trained professionals in their field.

It doesn't cost a company anything when you install it. It doesn't cost them anything when you leave your computer on all night or day rather than saving your game. It might cost you a little in electricity bill. It costs them nothing.

It also doesn't cost them anything when you distribute the product to other people. Nobody argues this because that's an absolutely moronic argument. However, it is an entirely valid argument to say that you are competing in the market against the original creators with their own product.

The fact that you are distributing the product for free rather than charging for it is your own problem. But you are still creating competition to their distribution.

The difference between a this third-party distribution and that of the original creators is that one of the two pays wages and finances continued development.

I'm pro piracy because I think it's a natural hazard of progress, to which software developers will either co-exist, adapt, or fall. I also like free stuff.

But most of the pro-piracy arguments give me a headache for how moronically stupid they are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040866
I talked about reproduction costs, not initial production costs. Reproduction costs are close to nil. Production costs are one-time costs required to produce the data. After the data is produced, it can be reproduced at zero cost.

It's a similar idea with chip makers, it costs them a few million to make the chip design/mask, and pennies/dollars to actually manufacture the chip en-masse. Initial production cost is high one-time cost. Reproduction costs are negligible.

How they choose to recover the initial production cost is their business, however don't say it like there is a duty for whoever is reproducing some data to pay for the initial production cost. It would be /nice/ if they did, but no, it's not a duty. Data once generated is a public good, and it can mask as a limited good through artificial monopolies enforced by governments, but that doesn't mean it's not an effective public good, no matter what laws you pass to prevent such usage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040821

You're right that fake goods are indeed generally lower quality, but that's beside the point. Even if they were perfect quality (and I've heard of companies in China which take contracts from American companies, overproduce the goods and then sell the surplus as "fake" goods (this can work because the sports companies put such a high mark-up on their clothes), so it's not implausible for that to happen), it would not be any more legal.

>>7040866

Erm, I don't think you could have missed the point of our argument by more if you *tried*.

The people we were arguing with weren't saying "when you distribute pirated software, you're competing with the company that produces it lawfully", they were claiming that copyright infringement is theft. Our argument was not aimed at justifying piracy, but merely at showing that it is not in any way "theft", because nothing is actually being *stolen*.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040821
In our case, pirates will ge getting Koihime late and from shitty torrent/filesharing site.
As a paying customer, you will get tech support, fast access and hassle free to play your game.
You wouldnt need to beg for download links and crack.
So the fake rolex and nike analogy actually make sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041011
>In our case, pirates will ge getting Koihime late
Oh no, 12 hours make a difference in a few months of waiting
> and from shitty torrent/filesharing site.
Yet, that downloaded at a nice 10MB/s, while I kept hearing legitimate customers struggling at 50-100KB/s during the initial rush.
> As a paying customer, you will get tech support, fast access and hassle free to play your game.
You wouldn't need tech support if you had a head on your shoulders. It took no longer than 3 minutes to install here. The hassle was with the voice patch which paying customers would have the same hassle with.
> You wouldnt need to beg for download links and crack.
I didn't. You just notice when they're out, which is 12-24hours from the release day and 1-6 hours for crack.
> So the fake rolex and nike analogy actually make sense.
No, because your non-cracked game is slower and has the potential to have more bugs, like some customers who had to wait 19 hours for the crack to appear because the game wouldn't work on their systems. Take that DRM.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040992
So? That's certainly wordplay acrobatics. What you're saying is that you replied to this thread and made an argument about the definition of a word "theft"?

Are you really honestly that stupid?

Some guys saying software once produced is public domain? You people really are retarded. If your local law defines it as illegal then it is, fuck your arguments.

Where I live it is legal to make a copy of something for personal use.

But the thread is supposed to be a morality thread, not a legal debate or arguments over word definition. Either way it seems like some of you don't have a clue what you're talking about and live in some fucked up imaginary world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033737
>>7033737
>>7033737
>>7033737
>>7033737

I don't know it seems pretty business as usual to me here... over stated elitism vs understated badass, and lots of assbergers, and I don't even come to /jp/ that often

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041072
>What you're saying is that you replied to this thread and made an argument about the definition of a word "theft"?
That's what 90% of the thread has been about. I'm glad you've finally gotten around to the same page as the rest of us.

>Either way it seems like some of you don't have a clue what you're talking about and live in some fucked up imaginary world.
Nothing imaginary about the game I'm enjoying right now. (Which, despite not being pirated, I got for free because the original owner of the CD key doesn't use it anymore. But it might as well have been.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041072

>So? That's certainly wordplay acrobatics.

How?

>What you're saying is that you replied to this thread and made an argument about the definition of a word "theft"?

No, I'm saying that someone else said "copyright infringement is theft", and then about five different people came up with five different ways why it's *not*.

>Some guys saying software once produced is public domain?

Who was saying that?

There were people saying that it *should* be public domain, yes (I think), but no-one was claiming that it actually *is*.

>If your local law defines it as illegal then it is, fuck your arguments.

Yes, and? Murder is illegal, but it's still not theft (well, unless you want to argue that it's "stealing someone's life", or something, which would make about as much sense as the bullshit that the "copyright infringement is theft" guys are spouting).

[Anonymous No.]

Continued from >>7041173

> But the thread is supposed to be a morality thread, not a legal debate or arguments over word definition.

Yes, and it *is* a "morality thread". However, most people would say that theft is not "morally acceptable", except perhaps in extreme circumstances (I personally don't have any huge issue with theft provided it doesn't significantly harm anyone (so, for example, I would have no real problem with stealing a million pounds from a billionaire), but most people would think otherwise, I suspect) and so anti-piracy groups and campaigners are determined to equate the two in order to win that moral argument. Therefore, the semantic argument about whether copyright infringement is theft is *important*, because if it geninely were it would be difficult to claim that it was morally acceptable. After all, I doubt many of us would sit here and defend a guy who just stole our computer.

>Either way it seems like some of you don't have a clue what you're talking about and live in some fucked up imaginary world.

No, because, like you said, it's a *morality* debate. At no point has anyone claimed that copyright infringement is legal, because we all know that it's not. The question is solely whether or not it's *morally* acceptable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033456
I watched it. Neil Gaiman will be sad to see his sales drop sharply when e-readers like kindle become common. The pirates won't pay then,who's going to sit at a desktop and read a bunch or print it out. No one.

>>>7033480
>You'll never convince someone on a student budget who can't afford his preferred entertainment to stop pirating if that's his only way to access said entertainment. Telling people to try their best supporting their favorite developers as far as they can afford it is another thing, but it's impossible to convert most people over to "only play what you can afford".

And this is why I keep what mediocre nihongo talents I have to myself.As it turns out,people who are too lazy to learn a language are usually too cheap to buy things;How odd.As it stands the number of translated Vns/eroge is below 100. If it were up to me ,it would stay that way.

[Anonymous No.]

I do it because it's free. I don't make any attempt to justify it, I'm just a Jew.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041239
>And this is why I keep what mediocre nihongo talents I have to myself.As it turns out,people who are too lazy to learn a language are usually too cheap to buy things;How odd.As it stands the number of translated Vns/eroge is below 100. If it were up to me ,it would stay that way.
Your pseudo-elitism is showing. I know both actual japanese people who play a lot of VNs/eroge and english-speaking people who also know japanese play VNs/eroge. Most of them pirate everything they can, making exceptions for maybe 1-5% of the titles when they have money they can afford to burn supporting their favorite eroge companies.
Japanese knowledge does not suddenly make you less off a pirate, it merely makes you more dedicated. A dedicated person may be able to make more money and if they wanted, they could spend that money on eroge, but that doesn't mean a dedicated person is always interested in making money. Some of them could be interested in translating VNs. I think the problem with most people is that once they learn the language they no longer feel the desire to contribute to their native language's translation scene. It's similar for me, when I learn a foreign language, I can't bring myself to translate anything full-length, it's just easier to use my skills for my own benefit than to use them for other people. Only when other people's interests and mine coincide, I will do it. I've also met some really nice translators who just translate a work because they want to share it with someone else. They are very nice respectable people who only work because they want other people who would be otherwise unable to experience some work, experience that work. It's essentially a form of intellectual charity.

[Anonymous No.]

I was hoping this would get derailed into a POMF thread. Oh well, got a few new images at least. Carry on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7033570
If you were a real fan you would want a lot of stuff.Let us suppose for a second in an alternate universe piracy is impossible. If you only buy physical copies unless you live in a mansion you will lose physical space very soon. dumb faggot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041302
The only problem with this is that such an universe is impossible as data can always be duplicated as long as it's physically possible to do so. If it's not possible to read or interpret the data, the data is unusable for anything, and even though it isn't copyable, it's also not usable for anything at all.

The fundamental law of cracking:
If something runs, it can be cracked.

The only way to prevent someone from pirating something is to merely not give that something to that person.

I couldn't fully understand the rest of your argument, but if you mean that data is equivalent to physical space, you are right, it's not like you don't need hard drives or other forms of storage for your data.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041344
Well , There are already security analysts working on revised encryption schemes that are mathematically impossible to break ,when that happens,checkmate. The rest should be simple. A bunch of anons are bitching that buying a download version is just a donation. The average eroge box is as big as a box of crackers. Most Japanese and American people don't have the space for several thousand such boxes ,700 would put a strain on most dwellings. In other words, download editions are good for the average joe,if you really want it ,buy a package.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041359
I am an expert in the field and I'm telling you it's physically impossible to realize. It's not even about the encryption. Encryption when used properly can be designed in such a way as it would take longer to break it than the lifetime of our universe, however nobody is breaking any encryption when they pirate stuff. This is your fundamental misunderstanding. Think for a bit, you have some DRM protected application/movie/song/book/etc, you bought it and after you performed whatever actions (inserted CD/DVD, activated, serial, and so on), you are now able to view it. The code runs for you now that you have been acknowledged as a customer. HERE IT IS. THE CODE RUNS. You see, the moment the code runs, it can be captured. You may make this very hard to do, but for something to function in our universe, it has to work through physical laws, it will also abide to some engineering principles, but this isn't mandatory. Once something is captured in some form or the other, it can be reproduced and thus you end up with pirating. The processes for doing this for applications, games, movies, music, books and so on tend to be different, but such a process will always exist as if it didn't exist, it would be impossible to physically realize it.

I repeat it again:
> The fundamental law of cracking:
> If something runs, it can be cracked.
You can't get away from this, no matter how hard you try. DRM isn't encryption used properly. If someone has the key and the chiper-text, they can obtain the clean data. Encryption is for protecting data from those that don't have the keys, DRM requires you to have the keys (even if it may hide them) for it to function, and thus it is broken by design, and cannot be fixed. Conceptually broken things cannot be fixed, no matter how hard you try.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041382
Sighs...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment

>A thought experiment (sometimes the German equivalent, Gedankenexperiment, is used) is a mental exercise which would consider a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle.

>Given the structure of the experiment, it may or may not be possible to actually perform it, and, in the case that it is possible for it to be performed, there need be no intention of any kind to actually perform the experiment in question. The common goal of a thought experiment is to explore the potential consequences of the principle in question.

Read this very carefully this is what that was. I was showing that if piracy were impossible anons would either be forced to buy a game or just simply not play it. I was criticizing those two anons who said digital downloads should be free because it was a donation.I was pointing out that if they bought a physical copy of every eroge they pirated it would overwhelm all but the grandest of abodes.

[Anonymous No.]

This again.

Reported.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041586
Do you want them shitting on your eroge threads? I know I don't. It's easier to hide threads like this where everything is concentrated then to hide individual offtopic posts in VN threads.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7035092
>Card Captor Sakura Blu Ray off the top of my head, is about 120 GB

troll
>Blu-ray Discs contain 25 GB per layer, with dual layer discs (50 GB) the norm for feature-length video discs

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041633
CCS has 70 episodes. You have about 2 episodes per BD, that's 10GB per episode, or ~700GB for the original unaltered 1080p BD sources. What the person was talking about was one of the recent CCS 1080p rips, which take about 1.3-1.7GB per episode (I have them too), much smaller than the original, but yet preserving most detail.
Now let's see what the average episode size should be to fit in 120GB: 120GB/70 = 1.714...GB
Sounds about right.

[John Galt No.]

Economics minor here,

I don't expect any of you to read me , but this thread is full of misinformation.

[mahou shoujo meduka !meguca4YtA No.]

>>7041684
Go choke on Ayn Rand's zombie penis.

[John Galt No.]

>>7041684 cont.

1. Piracy is theft by the letter of the law. US law forbids the creation of a copy for anything other than personal use.Uploading it to the internet is not personal use.

2. The idea that digital reproduction is costless is of no merit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041716
Go sell some air.

[John Galt No.]

>>7041716 cont.

The most important asset in an information age society is human capital.This concept is integral and elementary.The cost of the english language edition is a result of several factors. You are paying for the license ,which is an indirect method of payment to the original company . You are paying for the skills of artists ,writer's scripts, programmers knowledge. All are specialized skillsets employed for livelihood. You are also paying for the skill sets of the translators and their knowledge of Japanese,something which cannot be done by machines.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041716
> Piracy is theft by the letter of the law.
Haha, no.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041762
Call me back when the government invades my house and arrests me for the stuff I've downloaded.

[John Galt No.]

>>7041762 Cont.
case specific: the loss of voices was a disappointment,but unavoidable given the costs of seiyuu in Japan. Why you monolinguals even care about hearing something you can't understand is beyond me.

The DRM is also irritating,but unavoidable. It was part of a binding agreement between MG and the companies whose eroge they translate.DRM wouldn't exist if piracy wasn't such a problem in the first place.

[John Galt No.]

>>7041805
>>7041816

Violation of IP is considered a matter of civil law,but when you're caught if you try to ignore the lawsuit you will be jamal's love slave

[Anonymous No.]

Quality bangcock thread guys, you sure showed him that you aren't trolled easily.

[Anonymous No.]

the bullshit cost of japanese stuff is the #1 reason why i haven't read more vns

only reason i even got umineko is because i had a friend visiting the country who bought it for me as a favor

at least it's better than the 25$ per half hour that shaft is charging for meguka

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041833
Yeah, when that happens, I'll be sure to tell you all about it. You'll be delighted, I'm sure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7040983
That doesn't matter. You are paying for the product and license in order to cover the production costs and a small margin of profit.

And a product doesn't have to be material.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041716
>1. Piracy is theft by the letter of the law
The only reason people have spouted the word theft over and over again is because it sounds bad and because these people wants to badmouth piracy.
Strictly speaking, it is a whole lot of other stuff, but not theft.

>>7041584
>I was pointing out that if they bought a physical copy of every eroge they pirated it would overwhelm all but the grandest of abodes.
And not to butcher your argument in anyway, but I can't immagine someone buying everything they pirate, at least not when you are talking about people pirating on this scale.
You can pirate something because you want to check it out.
You do not however generally buy something only to check it out unless you have some solid pointers as to why it could be worth having.
Besides, you can actually fit alot of boxes in a room if you just try.

Besides, it isn't as if downloadable editions "works" for "all of the Japanese" or antyhing even though you may not have implied that yourself.
They know the marketing value of having good physical copies, it is why they so often aren't just an empty box with a bland disc, even though it isn't exactly uncommon. There have been manga and the like, on the brink of cancellation, and then having released a special volume packed together with a figurine, and suddenly having hit the top lists with it. They do know that stuff works.
Downloadable editions are for people with money to burn and with a passive interest who care neither more or less.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7041716
>1. Piracy is theft by the letter of the law
The only reason people have spouted the word theft over and over again is because it sounds bad and because these people wants to badmouth piracy.
Strictly speaking, it is a whole lot of other stuff, but not theft.

>>7041584
>I was pointing out that if they bought a physical copy of every eroge they pirated it would overwhelm all but the grandest of abodes.
And not to butcher your argument in anyway, but I can't immagine someone buying everything they pirate, at least not when you are talking about people pirating on this scale.
You can pirate something because you want to check it out.
You do not however generally buy something only to check it out unless you have some solid pointers as to why it could be worth having.
Besides, you can actually fit alot of boxes in a room if you just try.

Besides, it isn't as if downloadable editions "works" for "all of the Japanese" or antyhing even though you may not have implied that yourself.
They know the marketing value of having good physical copies, it is why they so often aren't just an empty box with a bland disc, even though it isn't exactly uncommon. There have been manga and the like, on the brink of cancellation, and then having released a special volume packed together with a figurine, and suddenly having hit the top lists with it. They do know that stuff works.
Downloadable editions are for people with money to burn and with a passive interest who care neither more or less.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7042490

>Well , There are already security analysts working on revised encryption schemes that are mathematically impossible to break ,when that happens,checkmate.

Except that you *have* to be able to decrypt the game in order to play it. And, as long as you can do that, you can copy it too, because the part of the program that does the decryption can be hacked or, hell, the unencrypted program can be read out of memory if necessary.

The only way that DRM can ever work is if you're obliged to confirm the legality of your game with some external source that you do not control, and that, in turn, can only be enforced if you actually *need* that external source to play the game or to do what you want with it. Which can, currently, only work with games where an important function of the game itself requires you to access some central server (it has to actually be important, or else pirates will simply hack that part of the code out).

[Anonymous No.]

Continued from >>7043412

>>7041359

>1. Piracy is theft by the letter of the law.

No, it isn't, even in the US. If it were, then there would be no need for seperate anti-piracy laws, because it would be covered by both common law and by already existing US anti-theft laws.

The MPAA and the like might be trying to make it seem morally equivalent, but even they aren't trying to make it *legally* equivalent. They know that it won't wash and, further, would actually make it *harder* for them to deal with it, because theft laws are based around the fact that, when you steal something, the person you stole it from does not have it any more and, thus, you can prove theft simply by finding the item in possession of the culprit. Further, making copyright infringement equal to theft would mean that only downloading could be prosecuted, since you can't steal something by giving it to someone else.

> US law forbids the creation of a copy for anything other than personal use.Uploading it to the internet is not personal use.

Yes, and?

No-one here is claiming that piracy is legal (at least not in the US, or indeed any other major Western country). However, legality /= morality.

>>7041762

No, you're not. You're paying for a bunch of 0s and 1s. All of those events happen whether or not you buy the product, and thus to download it is not stealing.

[Anonymous No.]

Continued from >>7043415

>>7041817

>DRM wouldn't exist if piracy wasn't such a problem in the first place.

And piracy (or, at least, torrenting) would be less of a problem if DRM didn't exist.

I have yet to see a single person who said "well, I was going to torrent it, but the DRM was a pain, so I bought it instead". On the other hand, I've seen a *hell* of a lot of people who refuse (either on principle or just because it won't work) to pay for DRM-crippled games.

DRM quite simply does not work (against downloading, at least), with a few exceptions (specifically, online-based games where you need a CD key or similar to register).

The issue with it is that, if the DRM is weak, it will easily be cracked. If it is *strong*, then every cracker out there will end up working on it, both because of the challenge it poses and because it's fucking annoying, and thus it will *also* easily be cracked.

>>7041716

>That doesn't matter. You are paying for the product and license in order to cover the production costs and a small margin of profit.

And what if I decide not to pay? What right do they have to say "you need a license in order to use this particular combination of 0s and 1s"?

It's not theft because you're not taking anything from them.