/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

I have a question /jp/.

How effective modern firearms and other primitive weapons are against touhous and youkais ?

Given how almost everything in Gensokyo is powered by magic would ordinary ballistic weapons and non magic edged and blunt weapons have fare ?

I have a theory I've dragged with me from the times I used to watch dragonball.

Most attacks in touhou are magic based so it would be logical if the protection against them are also magical, but would this protection be only applied to magic or basically everything ?

For example take Yukari and Rumia. While Yukari is one of the most powerful youkai obviously she would be able to both throw powerful attacks as well dish out a lot of damage on her own, while Rumia being a lot weaker having limited power and resistance is more vulnerable.

But would this only apply with magic or would the same happen with more crude things ?

TL;DR: The same thing Sakuya does with knives and daggers can be done with BULLETS ?

[Anonymous No.]

Guns win.

[Anonymous No.]

Oh boy here we go again.

[Anonymous No.]

Weaker Touhous could probably be killed by guns, but the stronger ones could find ways to avoid actual bullets. For example Youmu and Aya can move way faster than bullets travel, Suika could make a density-lowering field around her that reduces the mass of the bullets to zero etc.

Also this exact topic comes up at least once a month, maybe once a week.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933448

[/Thread] ?

I mean most touhous can't aim for shit, it is spam spam spam everywhere and too few aimed shots.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933459
Is their an official speed each character has?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933469
No. You conclude that by playing the games and reading official print works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933469
Remilia and Aya are fast enough to leave behind afterimages at top speed. Youmu's 200 Yojana in One Slash spellcard, if taken at face-value, supposedly puts her top speed at a quarter of the speed of light.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933459
Even smallfry youkai regenerate after being cut into five pieces.
The stronger ones don't even need to mind bullets anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933493

>Youkai would surely be unable to stand a chance against weapons such as a rifle that can shoot a spread of many bullets in an instant, or small arms whose rounds cause great explosions, or guns that shoot bullets that the user can control after firing.

[Anonymous No.]

>density-lowering field around her that reduces the mass of the bullets to zero

This is a really bad idea, remember how the Mass Effect weapons work ?

If the energy is conserved reducing the mass would only mean the projectile would move faster

[Anonymous No.]

Guns would fuck youkai up unless they could hax it in time. But they wouldn''t die from being shot either. Some might be completely immune if they're ghosts or whatever and can stop being solid if they like.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933503

>Youkai would surely be unable to stand a chance against weapons such as a rifle that can shoot a spread of many bullets in an instant, or small arms whose rounds cause great explosions, or guns that shoot bullets that the user can control after firing.

The Holy motherfucking BOLTER !

[Anonymous No.]

Oh. It's THIS thread again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933579

I missed the other threads, thanks for the bump.

[Anonymous No.]

Spellcard danmaku is a game.

Guns, on the other hand are not for fun and would probably just make the youkai confused and angry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933590
That's why you bring an army or be well supplied.

[Anonymous No.]

.>>6933602

but why would you want to do that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933607
To purge the heretics, of course.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933503
This is about right.

However, there are certain residents that could stop a large army indefinitely, among then - probably Yukari, Yuyuko, Mokou, Flandre, Eirin, Watasukis, Suika, Shikieiki, and Komachi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933602
Doesn't really help when single individuals can just erase the existence of a world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933612
I am a youkai.
your life is forfeit.

[Manfred !!UiOrmYiMsJQ No.]

>>6933590
A game that could be lethal during or after.

Utsuho's bullets were lethal and if you lost a duel, who's to say the Youkai won't rape you afterward?

The spellcard rules ensure a even footing, not your survival.

[Anonymous No.]

It's my dream to go to Gensokyo and brutally murder every pig disgusting Youkai and Youkai Lovers like that horrible Reimu.

Then when all the losers come to Gensokyo they'll find their paradise is a barren wasteland.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933621
Yukari can't even open a gap into the moon directly, what makes you think she can undo the existence of a world? The only character who even comes close to doing that is Yumemi, who is a human from a technologically advanced alternate universe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933616
Second pass - I should probably add Reimu and Utsuho to that list.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933616
A single bullet would slaugher most of those you listed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933627

>If victorious against a human, you may not kill them.

It's a mock duel.

[Manfred !!UiOrmYiMsJQ No.]

>>6933652
>Kill
They could do other things and it's not like these rules could be enforced as Reimu is a lazy cunt.

If there's no body...

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933650
Yukari can reflect bullets at you. Yuyuko is a ghost. Mokou is immortal. Vampires regenerate. Eirin is a veteran of moon wars where people have thrown around weaponry vastly superior to what we have now. The Watasukis have infinitely precise molecular disintegrators and can call on the power of gods for protection. Suika can break mountains with her bare hands; a bullet isn't going to kill her. Shikieiki and Komachi are rulers of hell; presumably they were immune to swords and axes and arrows, and this probably extends extends to other mundane weapons. Okuu's nuclear visor can probably stop bullets. Reimu's Fantasy Heaven makes her immune to any physical attack.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933633
I wasn't only talking about Yukari, but to answer you: She did. Even though someone who holds the same power as her was working against it. Her plan was never to just walk in on the moon. Read it again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933616
>>6933638
A bullet to the head (or chemical weapons, if Eirin isn't around to administer some sort of counters) would kill the Lunarians and Reimu (although in the latter's case, even a sniper might not be able to hit her, due to her intuition, and that's before taking Fantasy Heaven into account), Mokou could be disabled with a fatal shot and restrained, Flandre and Utsuho need to enter visual range before they can unleash their destructive powers and could thus be bombarded with artillery or missiles from afar, and Yuyuko, Shikieiki, and Komachi aren't allowed to go on a rampage in the world of the living and are thus non-factors.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933658
Dude, everyone knows that. It's a troll thread so don't waste your time.

[Manfred !!UiOrmYiMsJQ No.]

>>6933670
This is ridiculous.

Are we talking about bringing in modern armies?

The fucking Dragon would stop all this shit in two seconds.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933670
You probably couldn't kill the moon sisters if they were armored with the blessings of the war gods, or divine metal floating shields, or hell, just Lunarian body armor. As far as I recall, Mokou regenerates extremely quickly and you probably wouldn't find her on her own. Physical distance is a non-issue when Yukari can gap Okuu into the middle of your army and summon the sun in their faces.

>Yuyuko, Shikieiki, and Komachi aren't allowed to go on a rampage in the world of the living.
Guns aren't allowed in Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

Touhous are also equipped with superior FN weaponry, anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933658
Abrahamic God>Your gods. He blesses all righteous bullets that slay Youkai and Youkai lovers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933686

>Guns aren't allowed in Gensokyo.

I hate to do this but [citation needed].
But I'd love to read the sauce about that if it can be provided.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933705

The God of Abraham > Lord of Nightmares = Ryougi Shiki (Void) > Neutronium Golem > Your Touhou > Those Other Touhous >> Regular Dudes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933686
VIVIT lays waste to both sides and then returns to clean her master's room.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933709
It's not really explicitly stated, but part of the reason Gensokyo exists is to keep the whole place out of the modern era. I assume that a ban on guns would be part of this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933718

I thought it exists as a refuge for shit nobody believes in anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933722
The two go hand in hand, really.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933705
>>6933713

Speaking of Gods, isn't "faith" a prevailing factor in touhou universe ?

If enough humans believe a bullet can kill a youkai a single bullet will.
It is the same reason why outside humans never acknowledged the Lunarian/Earth incident of the Moon invasion of 1969 because there were enough people who believed and still believe that the moon landing never happened.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933729

I remember someone posting something similar a while back regarding the Colt 1911 and Hollywood.

[Anonymous No.]

Sup guys. What's going on in this thread?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933747
Rambo can kill Touhous
Discuss

[Anonymous No.]

Secular weapons don't do jack shit to youkai. You need faith-based or magical stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933750
Shiki can kill Rambo
Discuss

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933718

Still, Rinnosuke's store has several items from the outside world and Yukari also gave massive hints she spent considerable amounts of time in the outside world, there are cases of outside world humans coming to gensokyo (either when the great barrier weakens or due to Yukari's trickery) and those humans are highly valued because they know how outside world tech works.

I don't think it would be hard to slip a handgun or a rifle to Gensokyo but a tank or howitzer would be another story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933744
>Imagine what would happen if 'ol Rinnouske came into possession of a 1911. There are millions of people, (i.e. any halfwit who's ever seen a Hollywood war movie, and even some intelligent people,) who believe that this gun won WWII. They believe it can mow down sixty japs with one pull of the trigger, blow people eighty feet backwards in six pieces, that it fires a giant, hideously powerful FORTAY-FOIVE that tears buffaloes in half, that it never jams, never fails, always kills with one hit, and none of them know it has a 7-round magazine, because Americans only need to reload when they need a dramatic 'lock'n'load' scene. A 1911 in Gensokyo would be an item of terrible, fell power.

>INSIDE Gensokyo, a human would find his gun had become some sort of fell and terrible weapon. Shotgun pellets would vanish past twenty feet, and level mountains at ten. AK-47s would NEVAR JAM. The Desert Eagle would challenge the Master Spark for sheer destructive power, and any man holding a 1911 would become seemingly impossible to hit with bullets (either leaden or danmaku.) And reloading? As fucking if.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933759
Give Rambo prep-time and he can kill Shiki with a rock.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933759
Can he kill servants?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933757
Makes some sense, given how power in Gensokyo is given in relation to how something is remembered/perceived. This would make famous humans in Gensokyo extremely dangerous, and well-known fictional characters downright broken. Seems...orky.

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>>6933718
And that's why they have cellphones, digital cameras and TVs, right?

>>6933616
Most of them make sense, but what could Eiki do? Lecture them?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933729
Nope.
What humans of the real world believe doesn't matter. This is not FSN.
Though, if something isn't possible in the real world, it will be possible in the fantasy one since something impossible is in the realm of fantasy.

>>6933758
The kappa have way more advances technology.

[Anonymous No.]

>How effective modern firearms and other primitive weapons are against touhous and youkais ?

None. Even the weakest nameless fairies can ignore bullets. Trying to improvise a hypnotic gesture would have a better chance of working. The named touhoes can ignore all human weapons thanks to their magical forcefields.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933755
So, blessed bolters?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933818

>What humans of the real world believe doesn't matter.

What about >>6933722 then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933842

Black Barrel could kill absolutely everything there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933795
They do, but they're quite anachronistic. Yukari probably wants to keep firearms at least out of Gensokyo, and we know that she has a very good sense of what gets into Kourindou from across the border. She probably cares less about televisions that nobody knows how to use.

I just figured that Shikieiki is apparently more powerful than Yuyuko, Yukari, and Reimu together, she can probably bring down the pain in a variety of ways.

[Anonymous No.]

Shiki can't kill/evade bullets nor touhous

discuss

[Anonymous No.]

So there is no definite answer to this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>6934046

Guns win.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933757

Thank God Rinnosuke doesn't have gold deagles

[Anonymous No.]

>>6934046
Touhous win

[Anonymous No.]

You guys are forgetting in most gun engagements, you aren't staring down at the shooter so that you can evade the bullet somehow. And nobody will wait for you to do that.
If you shoot their backs from a convenient distance and cover without being spotted before firing, the first warning of a shot coming is often the last one, too.

>>6933755
I believe a rifle will put a nice hole in the target. I believe whatever is hit by a sufficient amount of rounds in specific areas will incapacitate the target. Faith.

[Anonymous No.]

>Imagine what would happen if 'ol Rinnouske came into possession of a 1911. There are millions of people, (i.e. any halfwit who's ever seen a Hollywood war movie, and even some intelligent people,) who believe that this gun won WWII.

This is a crock of bullshit. Gensokyo does not operate on unique physical laws. It is a sealed-off region of spacetime. Magic works outside of Gensokyo. Gods are sustained by faith, and apparently faith can invoke the power of the gods to make miracles happen, but youkai are imbued innately with their powers. Disbelieving in one doesn't stop their claws from tearing through you, or we could just send The Amazing Randi in to conquer it single-handedly (now there's a doujin I'd pay to have translated). Similarly, mundane weapons do not have special powers in and of themselves. Anything sufficiently common by definition loses its special powers, anyways, or every Tom, Dick, and Harry with a family katana could chop down youkai without blinking. lf you want your weapon to be effective against supernatural beings, you need it to be imbued with supernatural powers. You'd need blessed bullets, maybe silver. That, or get something that belonged to a legendary figure. A Colt Single Action Army is not the best handgun ever made unless Revolver Ocelot used it. The sword of a famous samurai may carry with it some of that warrior's spirit. For a modern-day example, try finding the Mosin Nagant used by Simo Hayha.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6934348

You do realize how ridiculous you look right now, do you? Touhou's setting is beyond silly and taking it as seriously as you are right now is pretty embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.]

the fuck? no one in the world is crazy enough to think a 1911 won a war. not even people in mental hospitals.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6934368
I have nothing else to do. Such is life on /jp/.

>I believe a rifle will put a nice hole in the target. I believe whatever is hit by a sufficient amount of rounds in specific areas will incapacitate the target. Faith.

No, you see, you don't believe in a rifle's inherent ability as an implement of death. You believe in its ability to project small pieces of metal through the air at high velocities. You expect a supernatural being to be incapacitated by such pieces of metal, a mistaken expectation based on an incorrect perception of its nature. In Touhou, faith can be a powerful force, but simple mistaken expectations such as "it will be sunny tomorrow" aren't enough to change the nature of the world. As such, your expectation that your rifle will kill with a few hits to vital areas is comparable to a belief in tomorrow's weather. Imagine what it'd be like if nobody was ever wrong in Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>6934460
RAMIREZ! TAKE OUT THOSE YOUKAI!
RAMIREZ! TAKE OUT THAT SPELLCARD!
RAMIREZ! PRESS SHIFT FOR FOCUSED MOVEMENT!

[Anonymous No.]

>Commando Pro "200 Feet In One Lunge"

[Anonymous No.]

>Grenade Sign "Press RB To Throw Back"

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933755

In that case, the character's from Demons' Souls should fair pretty good when fighting Youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6934746
Holy shit it's like I'm really playing CoD again


GRENATAAAAAAAA

[Anonymous No.]

>>6934746
>RB

>Computer Sign "Superiority of Upgraded Hardware"

>>6934749
Demons sound awfully similar to youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6934769
I forgot what the button was to throw back grenades on PC. It was either G or middle mouse button, and I couldn't remember which.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933633
>couldn't open a gap to the moon
That's why Yuyuko and Youmu never went to the moon!

[Anonymous No.]

>>6934769

Picture a grimdark Gensokyo except the humans cant technically die when killed by the Demons. The humans in Demons Souls also have the power to capture the demon's soul and use its power after they slay it.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

Isn't the whole point of Touhou dodging bullets?

[Anonymous No.]

For those saying there are no guns in Gensokyo. That's not true apparently.

In chapter 3 of Inaba Kourin has a gunbrella. In chapter 1 there was a land mine.

I also vaguely remember Tewi holding a shotgun at one point, but I can't remember the chapter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6934778
...you're right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933441
Guns win. Hell, the Touhou games are all about dodging a flood of VERY slow-moving bullets.

The thing is, you would have to hit a touhou's hitbox.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6935256
Are there any spellcards in any Touhou games that send very fast bullets your way? It seems like they all cater to memorization and autistic patterns.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6935298

I think you already know the answer. Danmaku games aren't comparable with proper shmups.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6935298
Sakuya's midboss spellcard in Stage 6 of EoSD

[Anonymous No.]

I think what we're all forgetting here is that, unless specifically stated otherwise, Touhou characters don't just have a massive quantity of plot armor.

Mokou is still, as far as biology can determine, human. Moreover, she still feels human. Even if it doesn't kill her, a single 7.62x38 round is going to incapacitate her through sheer shock. And we have materials that can withstand heat. She can be incapacitated.

Reimu is human, divine powers or no. A single bullet of any caliber is potentially fatal. Moreover, homegrown earth-technology projectiles move hundreds, maybe thousands of times faster than any danmaku short of a laser.

The real lynchpin here is tactical philosophy. We earth people do something very important that touhous seem incapable of: We fucking aim. Granted, they don't have targeting computers, telemetry algorithms, laser rangefinders, or fire control systems. I generally chalk up danmaku's shoot-fucking-everything tendencies to it being really fucking hard to hit something that's flying, especially if you're moving too. Compounded with the fact that we know how to lead our targets (something also foreign to touhous), I think this balances out the quality vs quantity equation.

As for magical attacks versus physical defense, that's a bit harder to say. Examples of physical attacks magically propelled are a non-issue, because we can assume certain things about the projectiles. Sakuya's knives are made of silver. Silver is a shitty thing to make a combat weapon out of, and they're useless against heavy armor. But a knife is a knife, and infantry would be fucked.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6935377

The harder questions come up when you start talking straight magic. Master Spark, for example. We call it a laser because it's bright and moves in a straight line as fast as we can perceive something moving. But it is actually a stream of photons, or is it just a torrent of ambiguous 'magical' energy? Is it even moving at the speed of light, or is it just too fast for us to judge with naked eyes? (Based on our understanding of lasers and theirs, does the word 'laser' even mean the same thing between us?) This problem goes on and on with Mokou's fire, Cirno's cold, etc etc. The only straightforward magic I can think of is Utsuho, who is basically firing plasma and gamma radiation bursts.

I think the only territory where an invading (or defending) force of real world military personnel would be totally fucked is against powers like Yuyuko's. There's no defense against spiritual anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6935377
If Gensokyo faced an existential threat that could not be dealt with in a ladylike fashion they would drop the danmaku games and just blow them all up. Those patterns are like that on purpose, read some Kirisame.

[Anonymous No.]

Because obviously ZUN is going to make a successful shmup by making bullets travel at realistic speeds, right?

[Anonymous No.]

Yukari shoots fucking nukes at people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6935377
Sakuya has silver knives so she can kill Remilia when the time is right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>6933441
Utsuho would easily wipe out large armies
using her subterranean sun..

[Anonymous No.]

I don't know why you guys assume that magical barriers cannot also be magical kinetic barriers. Plus, it's not like the spellcards are actually the best they can do. They're just playing a game.