Discuss.

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Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:19:20 2010 No.6214302 [Reply] [Original]

Discuss.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:20:20 2010 No.6214309 File: 130 KB, 741x648, 1207755396151.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:21:20 2010 No.6214310 Black hair?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:21:20 2010 No.6214312 >>6214309 Discussed.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:22:20 2010 No.6214314 >>6214309 Shiki could SO beat Shirou.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:22:20 2010 No.6214319 File: 111 KB, 840x693, 1238664501770.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

A Certain Magical !HOMOfybeOY Fri Oct 1 00:24:20 2010 No.6214323

Type Mercury (ORT) = Ado Edem > Type Jupiter > Type Saturn > Type Pluto > Type Venus > Type Moon (Crimson Moon) > Primate Murder > Original Roa > Angra Mainyu > Zelretch (young) > Counter Guardian Archer > Gilgamesh (Tohsaka) > Gilgamesh (Kotomine) = Arcueid (standard 30%) > Dark Sakura > Dark Saber > Lancelot = Saber > 5th Berserker = 17th Roa (Elesia) > Dark Berserker > 4th Rider > 5th Lancer (optimal) > 4th Lancer = 5th Rider (Sakura/optimal) = 4th Caster (optimal) > 5th Lancer (Kotomine) = 5th Caster = 4th Caster (Ryuunosuke) > 5th Rider (Shinji) > Nrvnqsr = Clairvoyant Fujino = Kurogiri > Archer > Kouma > 5th Assassin = 4th Assassin > Aoko = Barthomeloi = Kojirou = Ciel = "Ryougi Shiki" = Souren Araya (within the Ogawa Building) > Gun God (Black Barrel) > Touko = El-Melloi = Night of Wallachia > Sion Tatari = Melty Blood Satsuki = R.Shiki = Akiha = Asagami Fujino = 18th Roa > Tohno SHIKI = Alba = Heaven痴 Feel Shirou = Kiri > Nanaya Shiki = Reinforced Kuzuki = Sion = UBW Shirou = Waver = Bazett > Avenger = Rin = Kotomine = Zouken = Luvia > Kiritsugu = Irisviel > Maiya = Leysritt = Tsukihime Satsuki = Lio = Avalon Shirou = Sakura = Ilya = Kariya = Len > Kirie = Caren = Meruka > The Dead = Possessed Corpse = Azaka = Misayo = Dragon Tooth Warrior = Fuji-nee > Fake Shiki > Gun God (unequipped) = Ryuunosuke = Tomoe = Shinji = Hisui = Kohaku

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:24:20 2010 No.6214325 >>6214314 NO LOL

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:24:20 2010 No.6214326

>>6214302
I am not sure how Shiro could win against Shiki. Except if he get Archer's arm I am pretty sure Shiro would win though. I am even less sure why they'd fight in the first place except if he killed Saber or something lik- SHIKI CAN KILL SERVANTS.
DISCUSS.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:25:20 2010 No.6214331 Average Type-Moon thread.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:31:20 2010 No.6214363 >>6214323 I think Lancer could beat Dark Berserker.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:35:20 2010 No.6214373 If Shiki can kill servants, can Shirou kill vampires too?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:36:20 2010 No.6214377

>>6214323
Kanata > Type Mercury (ORT) = Ado Edem > Type Jupiter > Type Saturn > Type Moon (Crimson Moon) > Type Pluto = The Six Sisters > Type Venus > Arcueid (Full power) > Balor > Primordial Demons > True Demons > Primate Murder > Original Roa > Angra Mainyu > Zelretch (young) > Lancelot (F-15) > Gilgamesh (Vimana) > Counter Guardian Archer > Gilgamesh (Tohsaka) > Gilgamesh (Kotomine) = Arcueid (30%) > Dark Sakura > Dark Saber > Lancelot = Saber > 5th Berserker > Dark Berserker > 17th Roa (Elesia) > 4th Rider > Merem Solomon > 5th Lancer (optimal) > 4th Lancer = 5th Rider (Sakura/optimal) = 4th Caster (optimal) > 5th Lancer (Kotomine) = 5th Caster = 4th Caster (Ryuunosuke) > 5th Rider (Shinji) > Nrvnqsr = Clairvoyant Fujino = Kurogiri > Archer > Kouma > 5th Assassin = 4th Assassin > Aoko = Barthomeloi = Arcueid (6%) = Kojirou = Ciel = "Ryougi Shiki" = Soren Araya (within the Ogawa Building) > Gun God (Black Barrel) > Touko = El-Melloi = Night of Wallachia > Sion Tatari = Melty Blood Satsuki = R. Shiki = Akiha = Asagami Fujino = 18th Roa > Tohno SHIKI = Alba = Heaven's Feel Shirou = Kiri > Nanaya Shiki = Reinforced Kuzuki = Sion = UBW Shirou = Waver = Bazett > Avenger = Rin = Kotomine = Zouken = Luvia > Kiritsugu = Irisviel > Maiya = Leysritt = Tsukihime Satsuki = Lio = Avalon Shirou = Sakura = Ilya = Kariya = Len > Kirie = Caren = Meruka > Azaka > The Dead = Possessed Corpse = Misayo = Dragon Tooth Warrior = Fuji-nee > Gun God (unequipped) > Fake Shiki > Ryuunosuke > Tomoe > Keita San > Shinji = Hisui = Kohaku

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:37:20 2010 No.6214380 >>6214326 If Shirou had UBW up (like in the pic), he'd just hilariously stunlock and chain Shiki in Gil style. But we all know Shirou can't ever get his UBW up by himself and Shiki is useless without Nanaya.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:38:20 2010 No.6214381 Gil can kill DAAs.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:39:20 2010 No.6214385 If they both went all-out, Shiki would win. He'd end up being a vegetable after the fight but he would still win. Nasu agreed, don't bother him about it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:39:46 2010 No.6214387 >>6214373 Pretty sure the first five can steam roll him.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:40:20 2010 No.6214389 >>6214385 Against Fate and UBW Shirou, but not HF Shirou. Whether HF Shirou means True End or Archer Arm, he didn't explain.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:40:20 2010 No.6214392 >>6214381 Maybe, but definitly not the first five.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:43:20 2010 No.6214399 >>6214392 Well, the exact power of the Dark Six is currently unknown.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:45:20 2010 No.6214409

Seriously, you guys are fucking stupid.

The match would probably be a draw because:
1. To use "Unlimited Blade Works" It requires that a spell be chanted. Since the two of them fight at melee distance, it would be very difficult to perform.
2. Since both of them are human, they're (believe it or not) on about on an equal playing field. Considering that Shirou's swords are projections, they will undoubtedly have flaws which result in the lines of death becoming visible. But, Shirou can recreate as many swords as mana permits while Shiki can only keep his eyes strained for so long.
3. No shikifags, Nanaya mode won't kick in. Shirou is human.
4. Yes Shiroufags, unlimited blade works can be destroyed. UBW is just a reality (environment) contained within a barrier, so Shiki can kill it (Reread Ciel's route).

I can imagine the fight now! Two guys with no real strategy rushing head on at one another. Projecting swords over and over again just to have the lines cut, meanwhile both brains are pulsing, their lungs screaming for oxygen, they want to regurgitate blood. The fight goes on for about five minutes before Shirou is out of mana and Shiki is lying on the ground with his brain pounding in his skull like a piston.

tl;dr they're both human and both fight at melee distance using weapons of about the same length. One can kill things instantly and one can create things instantly. A battle of "LUL I KILLED UR SWORD" "LUL I GOT ANTOHER ONE."

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:47:20 2010 No.6214417 >>6214409 Shiki is faster though.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:48:20 2010 No.6214422

>>6214385
Nasu says a lot of things. Then corrects himself years later.

>>6214409
>2. Since both of them are human, they're (believe it or not) on about on an equal playing field. Considering that Shirou's swords are projections, they will undoubtedly have flaws which result in the lines of death becoming visible. But, Shirou can recreate as many swords as mana permits while Shiki can only keep his eyes strained for so long.
Just to point out, Shirou is canonically more fit and athletic than Shiki [lol just watched UBW and the battle with Gil lolwut].

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:51:20 2010 No.6214428 >>6214409 And logic kills any argument. +1

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:51:20 2010 No.6214430 >>6214422 >>6214417 One is more fit and the other is more fast.. Hmm..

Fujiwara no Mokou !!WMmFy7x/tgp Fri Oct 1 00:53:20 2010 No.6214445
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>>6214326
Exactly, they wouldn't fight. They'd team up and brofist.

>>6214417
And proof of that is?

Shirou was so fast he could block Gate of Babylon for a while with just two
swords, and with Unlimited Blade Works he's even faster.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:53:20 2010 No.6214447 >>6214409 >they're both human and both fight at melee distance using weapons of about the same length Anyways, can't Shirou's tracing copy technique and movements from the hero as well?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:56:20 2010 No.6214462 Shirou could just kill Shiki by tracing his knife.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 00:58:20 2010 No.6214467 >>6214430 No, Shirou is faster. Being more physically fit implies faster reflexes and movement. Have you played UBW? Shirou is a ripped speed demon in that route.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:01:20 2010 No.6214478 >>6214462 That would get Shirou killed very fast.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:05:20 2010 No.6214485 better question, can gil pull out black barrel or 7th holy scripture from gates of babylon?

>>	A Certain Magical !HOMOfybeOY Fri Oct 1 01:07:20 2010 No.6214497 >>6214485 No, they are not treasures.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:08:20 2010 No.6214498 >>6214462 Nanatsu-yoru has no special abilities.

Fujiwara no Mokou !!WMmFy7x/tgp Fri Oct 1 01:08:20 2010 No.6214501

>>6214462
>>6214478
Uh, the knife doesn't really matter. That's like the Trunks vs King Cold DBZ scenerio. It may be a nice looking blade and all, but it really doesn't mean a thing compared to the skill of actually using it properly.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:09:20 2010 No.6214503 >>6214501 Er, the knife isn't what grants the power. That's a terrible analogy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:10:20 2010 No.6214510 >>6214485 Question: are they Noble Phantasms? Answer: No.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:11:20 2010 No.6214515 >>6214503 Tracing a lesser form of Shiki's own skill is kinda futile, though.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:12:20 2010 No.6214516 >>6214503 That's exactly what he said anon. Maybe it's time to go to sleep?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:15:20 2010 No.6214530 >>6214516 >but it really doesn't mean a thing compared to the skill of actually using it properly. You didn't read my entire post anon. Maybe it's time to call it a night.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:16:20 2010 No.6214538 >>6214516 I interpreted that statement as saying Shirou wouldn't have the skill to use the knife. Though I can't recall what happened in that fight with Trunks. But I'm not even the anon you were quoting either.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:18:20 2010 No.6214550 vs threads are stupid. every fight is by probability and not ____>____

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:19:20 2010 No.6214554 >>6214550 Your stupid.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:20:20 2010 No.6214560 Wait, okay. What if Caster reinforced UBW?

>>	ITS HIS FAMILY NAME YOU DENSE MOTHERFUCKER Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:20:20 2010 No.6214562 >>6214498 the knife is not named nanatsu yoru. how many words ending in 夜　are pronounced 「よる」? zero. 七 is not counting anything. it is connected to 夜. why in the fuck would you tack つ on? 今夜＝コンヤ七夜＝ナナヤ

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:21:20 2010 No.6214564

>>6214530
And that's his analogy: Trunk's skills are what make him good with his sword. His sword doesn't have a special power. As Shiki's skills are what make him good with his knife. His knife doesn't have a special power.
I think I am missing something since the start.
Or I am getting trolled.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:23:20 2010 No.6214571 >>6214564 I think he was talking about Shiki's Mystic Eyes, not his knife skill; how tracing that knife won't let Shirou cut lines, pierce dots, perceive death. But I don't know, perhaps they'll clarify.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:23:20 2010 No.6214578

>>6214467
faster than the guy who wall/ceiling jumps and backdashed from the inside of a classroom filled with obstacles to the corridor in a blink of an eye?

Also before anyone says that shirow is more fit

- Basic spartan Nanaya training finished at age 6.
- Started to copy Kiri techniques after that.
- Body powered by generations of delicious wincest between pretty psychic assassins who take on demon hybrids, so since the very beggining he is not normal.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:23:20 2010 No.6214579 >>6214564 Yes, I started that line of stupidity just to troll. I'm sorry.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:25:20 2010 No.6214591 >>6214564 See: >>6214571 How is it even possible that we're not on the same page. It could only happen if you never played Tsukihime and didn't realize that Shiki's knife is just an object used to trace his lines. Go to sleep anon.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:26:20 2010 No.6214595 >>6214578 Bodies degrade.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:26:20 2010 No.6214596 >>6214497 I thought he had the original versions of everything. does that mean he doesn't have anything that can kill something without a concept of death?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:27:20 2010 No.6214597 >>6214578 Shiki is only hax when Nanaya activates; otherwise, he's just a fit highschooler. Compare to Shirou in UBW the movie, where he does all sort of crazy shit such as fending off Archer's attacks and doing techniques no ordinary human can.

Fujiwara no Mokou !!WMmFy7x/tgp Fri Oct 1 01:28:20 2010 No.6214606

>>6214538
>>6214564
Yeah, I left it kind of vague I guess and used "blade" to refer to both situations.

IN DBZ Trunks killed Freeza by cutting him in two. King Cold then asked to see the sword, and was like "HAHA I got your sword now I bet you only beat Freeza with this sword!" Naturally, it doesn't work that way, only only the character's own abilities decide the fights; the blade is just a regular tool and nothing more. When I said skill, I was referring to ability, in this case the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:28:20 2010 No.6214608 >>6214596 Not everything is based off something in the vault. Excalibur for example, or Avalon.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:29:20 2010 No.6214610 >>6214595 from the shit that he is able to pull out, it doesn't seem so. Shiki won the genetics lottery pretty much, seems to have even more potential than Kiri.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:30:20 2010 No.6214616 >>6214610 If I recall correctly, such actions strained his body. Like removing limiters on his muscles.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:30:20 2010 No.6214617 >>6214597 you know that archer wasn't being serious when fighting Shirow right?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:31:20 2010 No.6214620 >>6214597 He's kind of unfit too.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:32:20 2010 No.6214621 >>6214617 Not the point. Shirou was copying Archer's techniques, moving as fast as a rank E-D servant, and leaping impossible heights all over the place.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:32:20 2010 No.6214622

>>6214578
>faster than the guy who wall/ceiling jumps and backdashed from the inside of a classroom filled with obstacles to the corridor in a blink of an eye?
Didn't Nanaya kicked in at the time?
>>6214591
I get what he means and that's also what I meant. He meant: it's not a good analogy: his power and his knife skill is not the same. The knife is useless even if shirou traces it so that would be a proper analogy. I associated his power and knife skill together. As if Nanaya and Mystic eye were both under "skills". Nevermind.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:33:20 2010 No.6214623 >>6214620 unfit, yeah. Doesn't he put the world champion runners to shame when running to school?

>>	Fujiwara no Mokou !!WMmFy7x/tgp Fri Oct 1 01:33:20 2010 No.6214625 >>6214617 But Gilgamesh doesn't have this excuse. Granted, he wasn't serious in the sense of not using Enuma Elish right off the bat, but he was definitely serious about the sword combat and Shirou outsped him.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:33:20 2010 No.6214627 >>6214622 Seriously, one post caused so much confusion.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:35:20 2010 No.6214631 Nasu said Shiki wins. Clearly he was foreshadowing something. That Shiki wins.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:35:20 2010 No.6214632 >>6214625 but Gilgamesh sucks at swordplay and his pride always get's in the way + no armor to tank hits + UBW being the Perfect counter to GoB. His fighting style got fucked pretty much.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:36:20 2010 No.6214636 >>6214597 Shiki hax activates when he is threatened with death too. Besides, if you take away all the mana support Shirou has, he can't do a lot of his stunts as well.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:36:20 2010 No.6214637 >>6214632 No he's right. Shirou beat Gil because he got UBW up which enhanced his speed to godlike levels for some reason that was never explained. That, and projection spam. >>6214631 See: >>6214422

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:37:20 2010 No.6214639 File: 78 KB, 550x507, 1394576.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6214380 >But we all know Shirou can't ever get his UBW up by himself This isn't something to be embaressed about. A lot of men have this problem. Talk to your doctor.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:37:20 2010 No.6214640 >>6214636 His stunts weren't based on mana. The only things that used mana were projection and UBW, and without UBW, Shirou sitll did crazy things against Archer. Have you played FS/N's UBW route at all?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:40:20 2010 No.6214643 >>6214637 yeah, but when it's Gil vs Arc you fate fags surely don't question it. In short, you all want just your favorite characters to be the strongest.

Fujiwara no Mokou !!WMmFy7x/tgp Fri Oct 1 01:40:20 2010 No.6214646

Honestly, this isn't even much of a fight. One is a fighter with both closed ranged and long ranged capabilities. The other is a one-hit wonder.

It all boils down to whether Shiki can even land a single close-ranged hit. If he does, he wins; if he doesn't he loses. This would also then depend on their distance when the fight starts. If they're close, Shiki will probably win and kill Kansho and Byakuya fast. If very far away, I don't think Shiki can handle endless Unlimited Blade Works beamspam.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:43:20 2010 No.6214652 >>6214643 I'm pretty much admitting that Shirou would lose if he doesn't get UBW up and Shiki can kill projections. Are you high?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:45:20 2010 No.6214657

>Shirou
>more fit than Shiki
More fit, but he's not exactly physically the better specimen. Because even without reinforcements, Shiki can pull off shit like throwing a knife that it turns into a silver light, then appear behind someone before that knife arrives, then kill that person by ripping him from the chest to the neck.

By the way, Shiki can run all around a city even with debilitating anemia.

Yeah, Shirou's more "fit" because he's not sick. Shiki has all the genetic gifts and talent and he's only limited because some faggot's draining half his life force.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:45:20 2010 No.6214661 >>6214652 are you high? or can't you see what did you just quoted and in wich order?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:47:20 2010 No.6214669 >>6214646 Shiki's pretty fast that he killed all of Nero's familiars being thrown at him like spam too.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:47:20 2010 No.6214673 >>6214661 Your post is indecipherable. Please speak English.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:47:20 2010 No.6214674 >>6214657 >because some faggot's draining half his life force. U MAD?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:51:20 2010 No.6214680 >>6214673 oh god... just see what you just quoted. --------------------------------------------- >>6214631 See: >>6214422 ---------------------------------------------

Fujiwara no Mokou !!WMmFy7x/tgp Fri Oct 1 01:51:20 2010 No.6214681

Moving shadow creatures aren't nearly as fast as swords raining down as powerful arrows. And it's essentially endless, which is why it's called Unlimited and why Gilgamesh couldn't keep up in beamtrade, which was the point of the meme "King of Heroes, do you have enough swords?".

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:53:20 2010 No.6214686 >yeah, but when it's Gil vs Arc you fate fags surely don't question it. I don't even know what that means then. Besides, I'm off to bed.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:53:20 2010 No.6214687 >>6214680 Yeah, so I guess Nasu will correct Gil vs Arc one day. Idiot.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:53:20 2010 No.6214690 >>6214681 It's like Jesus Yamato, but endless beams in ALL directions.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:55:20 2010 No.6214696

>>6214681
I'm slightly confused, probably due to my crappy memory.
All the swords within UBW are swords Shirou had to have seen right?
When did he get all that weaponry in his world? Weren't they the same ones as the ones he saw Gilgamesh shoot at him during the moment?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:55:20 2010 No.6214697

>>6214681
Who says that Nero's animals aren't fast enough?

Besides, unlike Gilgamesh, Shiki's not going to just trade shots there. He's going to go for the kill and just make it hard for Shirou to aim at him.

There was that thread before where if conditions held right, Shiki is almost or can break the sound barrier. But I digress.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 01:56:20 2010 No.6214705 >>6214631 This thread should've ended with this.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 02:00:20 2010 No.6214711 >>6214697 I agree, but Shiki has to be completely in serious mode at that point. Any physicists here smart enough to determine how fast you have to throw a knife so that you basically don't even see the hilt?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 02:01:20 2010 No.6214715

>>6214687
There's nothing wrong with the current answers. Normally Shiki wins vs Shirou, Normally Gil wins vs Arc and that's it.
But there's always complaining when the author himself says that someone from Fate can be defeated. Not like there's nothing from other fans by Fate fans take the cake.

Fujiwara no Mokou !!WMmFy7x/tgp Fri Oct 1 02:01:20 2010 No.6214717

>>6214696
He's also been hit by Archer's Unlimited Blade Works earlier.

Also, when he is inside his own Unlimited Blade Works, he's no longer merely projecting what he's seen. His element is Swords and it's already a vast infinite space filled with unlimited blades.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 02:15:20 2010 No.6214803 >>6214717 Hm. Could have sworn everything inside UBW is a 'recording' of things Shirou has already seen. >>6214711 And then fast enough to jump forward and beat it's speed.

>>	Fujiwara no Mokou !!WMmFy7x/tgp Fri Oct 1 02:20:20 2010 No.6214819 >>6214803 Mass production. Maybe you're right, but he can make infinite multiple copies of the same sword; after all, he's a Faker.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 10:29:20 2010 No.6215864

>>6214687
>Yeah, so I guess Nasu will correct Gil vs Arc one day.

He kinda did though. he explicitly said in a recent interview that Arcueid was the strongest character with a major appearance in his works. Besides, there is no way Gilgamesh can stand a chance against Arcueid's second personality (Princess Arcueid).

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 10:46:20 2010 No.6215918

When Shirou fought Archer, Archer was already out of energy due to lack of a master for quite some time, with only a fraction of his original strength.
And he sort of evaluated Shirou as well.

Against Gilgamesh, Gilgamesh was serious about fighting Shirou with the swords, just not serious about the situation over all. There were tons of things Gilgamesh could have done to end it immeadiately.
But in sword spam, Shirou has a mechanical advantage as long as spamming is all they do.
Gilgamesh is technically not a sword fighter, he was a wrestler and could weild the axe, but he wanted to prove that he was superior.
So Shirou attacked Gilgamesh as fast as he could and perhaps without much finesse, only to stop Gilgamesh from thinking and getting his shit straight and drop the game of his.

Shirou is not on par with Heroic Spirits or Ghost Liner class anything for that matter.
He is a Magus that can surpass humans and has an affinity for swords, but that's about it. But he can still surpass this "pinnacle of human physique" due to magical augmentation, but it doesn't put him on par with monsters just like that.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 10:52:20 2010 No.6215932 >>6215918 But... but he have UBW

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 10:57:20 2010 No.6215939 >>6215918 >still surpass this "pinnacle of human physique" due to magical augmentation I shudder to think if Shiki ever learns reinforcement magic. Arcueid did say Shiki could learn it, right?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 12:58:20 2010 No.6216269

>>6215864
I don't understand this.
If I recall correctly, Ea is said to be able to cause a dimensional rift, rendering your ATOMS to scatter, so that you can't even regenerate since they are not singular quantities so you literally just stop existing.
I have never played Tsukhime, but I'm curious as to how you can beat a technique that makes it so you literally stop existing.

>>	Da ★ Ze !MaRIsaDqf. Fri Oct 1 13:09:20 2010 No.6216296 >88 posts and 4 image replies omitted Never change /jp/ Also, Ryougi could beat both of them easily.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:09:20 2010 No.6216297

>>6216269
Arcueid cannot be destroyed as Gaia exists. The MEoDP is a reality breaking thing that's supposed to erase anything it cuts from existence, rendering all regeneration impossible.

It's a matter of reality being broken by another reality that cannot be broken.

Meaning unless you kill Gaia, Arcueid will just keep on coming back after you blast her.

Arcueid would have a harder time recreating herself from Shiki's MEoDP more than Gilgamesh blasting her with Ea. With the former, she has to rearrange herself completely before regeneration. With the latter, she just has to stick herself back to whole again.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:15:20 2010 No.6216311

>>6216297
>Arcueid would have a harder time recreating herself from Shiki's MEoDP more than Gilgamesh blasting her with Ea. With the former, she has to rearrange herself completely before regeneration. With the latter, she just has to stick herself back to whole again.
I'd imagine that having to piece atoms together is more difficult than rearranging body parts, which are still bounded together. The laws that quarks abide by mean that once they are gone, they basically can't be brought back together as atoms unless there was a tremendous attraction bringing them back.

Either way, didn't HF show that Gil could in fact, destroy the earth if he wanted to?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:16:20 2010 No.6216313 >>6216311 >HF Er, I mean Hollow Axtaria.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:18:20 2010 No.6216317 Honestly, we just simply don't know enough about the true Mechanics of Ea at full power to really say what it could feasibly do, aside from sucking things into "Hell".

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:19:20 2010 No.6216322

>>6216311
MEoDP works on the basis that you should never be able to put yourself back together again. That if you are dotted, you stop existing all together from reality.

Ea only splits you up and does not have the same existence denial ability the MEoDP has. Arc only needs to reform her atoms without any more rearranging needed.

That said, the planet busting that Gil has is more hyperbole than real. Like Shirou's million circuits deal. It CAN destroy "worlds" as in Reality Marbles.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:21:20 2010 No.6216327 >>6215939 What the fuck man? He's got no circuits, how the fuck would he do that?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:23:20 2010 No.6216331 >>6216327 Arcueid already told him he could learn magic. You gonna go against Arcueid?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:24:20 2010 No.6216337 >>6216331 Arc isn't omniscient.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:24:20 2010 No.6216342 >>6216322 Ah alright, that makes sense. I thought that I read somwhere in HA that Ea could destroy half the earth even when not used at full potential.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:25:20 2010 No.6216344 >>6216322 Actually, conceivably, were Arc to get sucked into Ea's "hell", which is a state where not even Gaia exists, and nothing living can exist, Arc might not conceivably be able to resurrect.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:26:20 2010 No.6216346 >>6216337 Arc isn't exactly dumb.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:28:20 2010 No.6216355 >>6216344 IIRC Ea's hell was what Ea caused in terms of damage, not really a hell hell.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:28:20 2010 No.6216357 >>6216337 She doesn't need to be to detect magic circuits.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:28:20 2010 No.6216360

>>6216344
>>6216322
Good point.
Ea technically brings you back to a time where nothing existed, ie. before the Big Bang.
That would mean that Gaia can't exist, and since you are in that dimension, you don't have a connection to Gaia anymore.
So we can basically conclude that Gil can kill pretty much anything, but will never be able to because he's a pompous idiot.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:29:20 2010 No.6216363 >>6216331 Fuck this plothax bullshit. Shinji can't learn magic because his circuits are dead, but Shiki can despite not having any? Fucking Shiki, what a Mary Sue. I guess that's why he hangs out with Arc.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:30:20 2010 No.6216367 File: 56 KB, 795x597, 95668874.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6216355 By "hell" I mean the void that Iskander's RM got sucked into. Trying to find the translated passage at the moment. Pic related.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:30:20 2010 No.6216368 >>6216363 I wouldn't try applying Fate's rules to Tsukihime, Nasu probably didn't even have them worked out that far ahead.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:32:20 2010 No.6216373 >>6216363 ...who says Shiki doesn't have a magic circuit?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:34:20 2010 No.6216391 File: 284 KB, 950x652, phate.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Discuss.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:49:20 2010 No.6216454 >>6216373 Regardless Shiki has at least one, because that's what connect the MEoDP to his brain. Of course, if he has only that one, I don't think learning thaumaturgy would be a good idea for him...

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:49:20 2010 No.6216460 >>6216363 > Shinji can't learn magic because his circuits are dead I thought it was because he had no magic circuits to begin with.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:52:20 2010 No.6216475 >>6216454 didnt aoko have one magic circuits too?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:53:20 2010 No.6216480

>>6216460
No, he has circuits that are forced open when he becomes the grail in UBW. It's just that they weren't naturally open and he would need to force them open with a fuckton on prana. Conceivably, post-UBW Shinji might actually be able to use magic.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:55:20 2010 No.6216489

>>6216475
Yeah, but Aoko's circuit is amazingly high quality and is extremely efficient.
And I was more referencing the fact that if passively using the circuit fucks with Shiki's brain, imagine how much worse actively attempting to use it would be along with the MEoDP strain.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:57:20 2010 No.6216493 It's funny, because Arc is quite possibly the biggest Mary Sue in the series. Also, Shirou is a fag and can't beat Shiki. Archer can though.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 13:59:20 2010 No.6216504 It doesn't really matter if Shiki has a magic circuit or not, because applying reinforcement on a human is hard as fuck. By the time Shiki would have gotten the hang of it, he's probably already dead.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:01:20 2010 No.6216510 >>6216504 >By the time Shiki would have gotten the hang of it, he's probably already dead. This is Nasuverse. There are ways to get out of death. We just don't know it yet.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:04:20 2010 No.6216520 >>6216504 Reinforcing one's self can't be all that difficult if Shirou in the prologue can do it. However, reinforcing another person on the other hand, is hard as fuck and why only Caster is the only one we've seen do it.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:06:20 2010 No.6216534

>>6216520
He doesn't even reinforce himself, he 'reinforces' inanimate objects by changing their composition. THis is also said to be an extremely rare talent anyways, and it's said that it takes a lot of concentration to do so. Shiki can never really do that since it's Shirou thing unless he trains forever.

What you're thinking of is what Rin does to her legs to run faster and avoid falling damage in the prologue, and even this is said to be a high calibur skill.

Also, anyone else think Kiritsugu is hax in all aspects? Able to move 2x as fast as anyone with Avalon and Bullet time, and having magical bullets that fuck you up so you can never perform magic again? Tell me why this man didn't outright kill Kotomine and be done with it.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:07:20 2010 No.6216537

>>6216317
We know that you have to be divine in order to use Ea.
We also know that Gilgamesh actually can't use it at it's full power due to not being fully divine.
But we still know he can utalize enough power to easilly erradicate a whole continent or so.

And it's explained how it causes a dimensional rift and tears apart everything until it stops existing, rather than destroying things.
And if we are to look at some of it's myth connections.
Enuma Elish, that move Gil uses with Ea, is in fact the old mesopotamian creation myth. And it starts with the entire world and the existence itself being split apart, erasing the old world and replacing it with a new one.

I think it's safe to assume that it basically just makes things stop existing.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:09:20 2010 No.6216543 >>6216534 I mean Shirou reinforcing his eyes to see Rin at the top of the building.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:09:20 2010 No.6216545 >>6216520 Not the same anon, but wasn't Shirou a special case, though? I was under the impression he could strengthen himself because he thinks he's a pile of swords.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:12:20 2010 No.6216552 File: 408 KB, 1120x1600, 098.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] /thread

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:12:20 2010 No.6216553

>>6216297
You're wrong sir.
Ea is the, "Star of Creation that Split Heaven and Earth". Quite literally, it splits apart the earth from reality and brings it back to a time where it hasn't existed yet. Basically, the entire world is just a mass of atoms that have no definite shape or form in this rift, so it is impossibble for them to join together in any way before the Big Bang occurs. Basically, it means that you stop existing simply because nothing else has started in the universe.

In a way, this transcends MEoDP, considering that Ea erases the concept of everything engulfed by it and is not restricted to a single target.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:12:20 2010 No.6216558 File: 300 KB, 1120x1600, 099.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6216552

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:13:20 2010 No.6216560 >>6216552 Shitty fan fiction, not so good. CCC should go back to doing porn only.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:13:20 2010 No.6216563 >>6216543 He didn't. He squinted really hard and some of Archer's attributes flowed into him. Reread that chapter.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:13:20 2010 No.6216567 >>6216558 so what happened in the end?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:14:20 2010 No.6216569

>>6216337
Nigh, the world's knowledge = Arcueid's knowledge, Gaia can fill Arcueid with whatever ammount of knowledge it wants. But on avarage, the knowledge that Gaia normally provides her is still waaaay bigger than the knowledgable and wisdom of those DAA or immortal beings that have lived for thousands of years, so yeah.

>>6216363
And where does it say that Tohno Shiki doesn't have a Magic Circuit? A lot of normal persons have Magic Circuits (hell, Shirou wasn't even part of a magus family). They are just inactive because they aren't being used, so I don't see the problem here.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:14:20 2010 No.6216570 >>6216558 >Shiki being able to destroy the concept of an intangible world witihout a strain Cool fanfiction bro. Get back to me when Nasu states specifically how Shiki will win.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:15:20 2010 No.6216572 >>6216545 Don't know about that, but Shirou has the ability to grasp the structure of things instantly, that's why he can do something that's considered crazy hard normally. Shiki would just poison himself by reinforcing himself incorrectly.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:15:20 2010 No.6216576 >>6216558 Shirou status: [ ]told [X] FUKKEN told

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:15:20 2010 No.6216577 File: 427 KB, 804x604, Noname2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6216563 Really? He makes it pretty clear that he's reinforcing his eyes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:17:20 2010 No.6216581 File: 445 KB, 1120x1600, 100.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6216567 shirou and friends bailed

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:17:20 2010 No.6216583

>>6216570

I believe the reason he said Shiki would defeat Fate and UBW Shirou is that Shirou wouldn't be able to keep up with his speed, so he would have to resort to mass Tracing. Shiki can apparently kill Traced weapons with severe damage to his consciousness, but he'd be able to break through before dying.
He mentioned that this wouldn't apply to Shirou equipped with Archer's arm, who would presumably just Noble Phantasm Shiki.

(Ordinary Shirou does not yet know how to activate the Noble Phantasms of Traced weapons, Archer does.)

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:19:20 2010 No.6216585 >>6216581 no, i mean, in the end of all the chapters.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:21:20 2010 No.6216591 Shiki's performance in battle only increases when he's fighting something "demonic" right? Wouldn't he be just some lame slacker with some instant kill haxx if he's fighting another human?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:21:20 2010 No.6216593

>>6216583
Hm derp then.
Shirou is so strange, he seems to do things unconciously all the time. He claims that he can't reinforce his arms or legs and complains that they get broken all the time, but he reinforces his eye so easily.
Possibly, this is a different kind of reinforcing (considering that to get better eyesight, you need a better ratio of the focals in your eye, so there wasn't actual composition change).

>>6216583
Yeah that makes sense, but Nasu didn't specify which Shirou or pre battle conditions. For example, if we're talking about UBW Shirou that already got mana from Rin, he could get UBW with Shiki not knowing what's going on. If it's HF Shirou, Shiki is fucked. If it's Fate Shirou, Shirou is dead unless he has Avalon and a connection to Saber.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:21:20 2010 No.6216594 >>6216583 No. Nasu never said anything about Archer Arm Shirou beating Shiki. It was the interviewer's personal opinion, not Nasu's.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:22:20 2010 No.6216597 File: 430 KB, 801x643, I can see you.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6216577 >I can barely see her Yet he can clearly see Archer 4 km away in HA. Wat.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:23:20 2010 No.6216602 Powerleveling powerlevel. What is next, Accelerator vs Shiki? You guys never tire of this shit, right?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:24:20 2010 No.6216605 >>6216597 but that is not Shirou

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:24:20 2010 No.6216606 >>6216602 Shiki would just kill his barrier, instant KO.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:24:20 2010 No.6216608 >>6216597 That's because Avenger. And I imagine Meta-knowledge from the 3 Shirous also helps.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:24:20 2010 No.6216609

>>6216534
Shiki is a special breed of human. He's far more attuned to psychic things even without training than Shirou is. He's basically talent personified. I don't think Shiki will have a hard time learning, especially considering he also is a protagonist.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:26:20 2010 No.6216616 >>6216597 >6 months of training later also plot

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:26:20 2010 No.6216617 >>6216552 >>6216558 IIRC Shiki and Arc's story is several years before the Fifth HF, right?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:27:20 2010 No.6216622 >>6216605 But Avenger is basically Shirou when he's in Shirou form. They have the exact same feelings and skills.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:27:20 2010 No.6216625 >>6216617 It was retconned to take place in 2004, the same year as Fate.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:29:20 2010 No.6216631 >>6216622 The thing is though is he has meta knowledge from all 3 routes, which would include everything Shirou absorbed from the resonance with Archer in UBW.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:29:20 2010 No.6216632 >>6216625 ...When?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:30:20 2010 No.6216635

>>6216609
>especially considering he also is a protagonist.
Yep. Considering that he can't do the more complex magus stuff in Tsukihime, I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't be able to learn things that Shirou can do that easily. But Nasu will just make some BS excuse because he is the protag.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:30:20 2010 No.6216637 >>6216597 Shirou gets substantially more skilled thoughout the grail war. For one, he actually starts using his real circuits instead of his nerves.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:31:20 2010 No.6216639 File: 72 KB, 450x671, altrouge435634634745.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Altrouge can kill servants. Discuss.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:31:20 2010 No.6216642 >>6216585 what's the name of this?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:35:20 2010 No.6216661 >>6216609 Doesn't matter, Shiki still lacks the special ability to grasp internal structures. Without it, reinforcing living beings is hard as hell and you need someone like Rin to do it the proper way.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:37:20 2010 No.6216666 Alright, would UBW Shirou with proper Kiritsugu training be able to defeat Shiki?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:38:20 2010 No.6216672 >>6216661 >you need someone like rin >you have arc and ciel with you Really? There's also Shiki's talent factor.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:39:20 2010 No.6216674 >>6216639 Gransburg can kill Servants. And he doesn't even have to move to do it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:39:20 2010 No.6216675 >>6216632 Rather, he said something along the lines of that Tsukihime takes place around the same time as Fate. According to Fuyuki, anyway.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:39:20 2010 No.6216677 >>6216666 Shiki with proper training from Arc and Ciel could kill anybody.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:39:20 2010 No.6216679 >>6216674 Do it the Anon way!

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:40:20 2010 No.6216686

>>6216558
The sad part about Shiki defeating Shirou's reality marble is when you read it as a symbolic thing: Behold Shirou, he's an idiot but a really hard worker, he's done everything he can to the best of his subpar abilities to be the best at what he does for the sake of others. He worked his ass off to get good enough to pull UBW himself and that reality marble is the sum of his ideals, his beliefs, and the fruits of his labors.

Shiki just wants to be a normal dude and fuck everything with a vagina, Shiki didn't do anything for his gift, he doesn't even want any powers, and all of Shiki's abilities were bred into him.

Thus, Shiki, without having worked for any of his strengths of powers and holds no ideals ends up devastating Shirou in a single attack, shattering his dreams, his beliefs, giving one huge middle finger to his life of hard work and altruism with no effort or thought.

Fuck you, Tohno Shiki, fuck you.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:41:20 2010 No.6216688 >>6216635 >shiki >do any magus stuff in tsukihime He did no magecraft at all in Tsukihime. How the heck could you say he'd have a hard time doing anything?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:42:20 2010 No.6216693 >>6216686 Oh come on now. Shiki might be talented, but he had to finish Nanaya superhuman training by age six... oh wait, you call that a prodigy, right?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:42:20 2010 No.6216694 File: 92 KB, 750x1084, 13.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6216677

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:43:20 2010 No.6216698 File: 77 KB, 750x1078, 14.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6216694

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:44:20 2010 No.6216700 >>6216694 Oh yeah, Sion can also release Shiki's limiters. Forgot that.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:44:20 2010 No.6216706 >>6216694 >ciel getting kicked in the face HA HA

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:45:20 2010 No.6216710 >>6216672 I'm sure they can pull it off, but they're irrelevant. We're arguing about Shiki, not L'Arc n Ciel. Shiki can't do it. When I mentioned Rin, I meant you have to be as good as Rin to do it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:45:20 2010 No.6216711 >>6216686 Complete opposites. The two of them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:46:20 2010 No.6216719 >>6216710 >Shiki CAN'T do it >no real proof other than wanting Shiki to be broken as hell Nice one.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:47:20 2010 No.6216722 >>6216719 >no real proof other than wanting Shiki to be broken as hell >no real proof other than NOT wanting Shiki to be broken as hell fix'd

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:47:20 2010 No.6216727 File: 117 KB, 633x800, 1278702583300.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Kanade can kill Shiki and Shirou at once. Discuss.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:49:20 2010 No.6216733

>>6216719
Let's be serious now. If Shiki learns Reinforcement, with the baseline that he already has, that's tantamount to cheating already. More potential than his father had? When his father already had the ability to kill something that can match Servants? You've got to be kidding me.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:49:20 2010 No.6216737 >>6216727 Shiki and Shirou don't even need to kill Kanade. Because she's already dead.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:50:20 2010 No.6216745 >>6216733 Kouma can kill servants.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:51:20 2010 No.6216747 >>6216737 There is food in afterlife so no problem.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:52:20 2010 No.6216751 File: 960 KB, 682x1023, manshow_063_002.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] even as a boy, shiki is manly and awesome

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:53:20 2010 No.6216764 I stopped reading when no one included Slash God in the power levels.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:54:20 2010 No.6216767 >>6216751 did anymore get scanned?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:55:20 2010 No.6216771 File: 297 KB, 600x680, arc34434.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Princess Arc > Servants. All of them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:55:20 2010 No.6216772 >>6216751 chap 63 is the last ive seen

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:56:20 2010 No.6216777

>>6216719
I've stated it already, Shiki doesn't have the internal structure grasping ability. He hasn't shown himself to be a good magus either, or evn a magus at all. We just know he has a magic circuit in his eyes, and maybe somewhere else. And passive usage of the confirmed circuit kills him before he hits 35.

You're just a blind fanboy with no arguments except "he's the protagonist lol"

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:57:20 2010 No.6216783 >>6216751 Save your sister from a rampaging hybrid at around age 10 Gain Hax power after hospitalization ??? Profit

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 14:58:20 2010 No.6216790 >>6216581 >>6216558 source please

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:00:20 2010 No.6216801 File: 335 KB, 1000x1000, Don't make me say it.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6216790

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:00:20 2010 No.6216807 >>6216764 You mean Ado Edem, wielder of Slash Emperor?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:01:20 2010 No.6216811

>>6216777
>Shiki doesn't have the internal structure grasping ability
Nothing in any TM work says this.
>He hasn't shown himself to be a good magus either, or evn a magus at all.
Because he wasn't taught any magecraft yet. Only thing we know about ANY potential came from Arcueid saying that he could summon a familiar if he learns magecraft and Ciel saying Shiki's body is very well-built.

You're denying Shiki skills he hasn't even learned yet. Why? Because asspain.
>We just know he has a magic circuit in his eyes, and maybe somewhere else.
Agree, but who knows, the man might have a lot of magic circuits in him, coming from a demon hunter clan.
>And passive usage of the confirmed circuit kills him before he hits 35.
Yes, and? Will that stop him from being able to use any other circuits everywhere in his body? That circuit will kill him not because he's using the circuit, but WHAT that circuit is connecting him to.

Learn to separate different things.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:03:20 2010 No.6216821 >>6216801 just tell me goddammit

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:05:20 2010 No.6216825 >>6216821 Type Moon Complex X

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:08:20 2010 No.6216845

Ok, so why are we now fighting about if Shiki has circuits or if he can learn and apply reinforcement magic? The guy has the potential to learn and use it well, seeing as he's one of the most physically talented human beings we've seen in T-M. Is it really that improbable? I don't think so. But nobody has any concrete evidence for any argument. So why are you douchebags arguing? Shiki can or can't, we don't know. So fuck off.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:16:20 2010 No.6216883

Shiki being able to destroy a reality marble is outright stupid.

He can't process alien not part of his world, things that doesn't follow gaian rules.
A Reality Marble is a complete seperate entity from the world.
It's a complete world that has nothing to do with Gaia's world.
It follows it's own rules and doesn't give a crap about Gaia. (though they are fighting, that's why it's hard to maintain a reality marble. But in theory, if the reality marble is strong enough, Gaia would fail and it would replace the world)

Shiki even has trouble with taking on Gaia, he would be powerless against an alien world he cannot process.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:17:20 2010 No.6216885

>>6216811
>Nothing in any TM work says this.
So what if they don't state that Shiki doesn't have the Structural Grasp Magecraft? If they don't state a character has a special ability, normally you should assume that he doesn't. I'm not trying to tell you Shirou has MeoDP, am I?
>Because he wasn't taught any magecraft yet. Only thing we know about ANY potential came from Arcueid saying that he could summon a familiar if he learns magecraft and Ciel saying Shiki's body is very well-built.
Familiars aren't very hard to have when magi use them to do mundane tasks, unlike strengthening a living being which is considered really hard.
>You're denying Shiki skills he hasn't even learned yet.
And you're assuming he's a genius magus with no basis. He hasn't shown anything that should make us assume that he has great potential as a magus.
>Agree, but who knows, the man might have a lot of magic circuits in him, coming from a demon hunter clan.
Way too flimsy of an argument. Nowhere is it stated that demon hunters have magic circuits. "He might have circuits" is a really poor justification. Arc offhandedly stating he could do magic shit doesn't mean he has huge potential.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:18:20 2010 No.6216890 >>6216825 Where can I get it?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:20:20 2010 No.6216904 >>6216845 Physical abilities such as running on the walls don't affect how good of a magus you are in the slightest. Look at Shirou, he's buff as hell but sucks hard at magic.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:20:20 2010 No.6216905

>>6216811
>Only thing we know about ANY potential came from Arcueid saying that he could summon a familiar if he learns magecraft
I don't really think this is saying much.
People, technically, don't have to have circuits at all to do magic.
Caster's master in Fate/Zero did a summoning ritual using sacrfifices powered with prana, rather than using circuits himself.

>and Ciel saying Shiki's body is very well-built.
This most likely refers to his physique.

>>	Suigin !fKazami5bE Fri Oct 1 15:20:20 2010 No.6216910 >>6216890 google

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:23:20 2010 No.6216925

>>6216885
MEoDP is a once in a blue moon phenomenon. Magecraft can be learned. The fact that Shiki has circuits in his eyes even before the MEoDP came out means that he possibly has more. The fact that Shiki is a talented human who is beyond normal humans further help the fact that he possibly could have more than average in number.

He can learn, Arcueid said so. I'm not saying he's got it made. I'm saying the possibility for Shiki to be a talented mage is there, considering how fucked up hax his lineage is.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:26:20 2010 No.6216943 A magus can see trough the eyes of his familiar. Shiki can learn to summon this. Shikis familiar can kill servants. Discuss.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:26:20 2010 No.6216947 >>6216845 I think these guys are just angry. Because if Shiki ever learned reinforcement magic, Shiki becomes pretty hax.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:27:20 2010 No.6216953

>>6216534
>Tell me why this man didn't outright kill Kotomine and be done with it.
Because Kotomine is the Church's prodigy executor.

Not counting thaumaturgy and augmentation and other magical things, Kotomine might actually be more skilled than Ciel, when it comes to actual skill alone.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:27:20 2010 No.6216955 >>6216943 Not at all.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:28:20 2010 No.6216961 >>6216534 I guess because he expected shooting him in the heart to kill him. Not like he could predict the tainted grail would give him a new heart.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:29:20 2010 No.6216963

>>6216883
>if the reality marble is strong enough, Gaia would fail and it would replace the world

Gaia > Reality Marbles, not the other way around, only the oldest DAA can maintain a RM for a couple of hours, but a magus? lol no. The only ones who can use RM as they please are the True Ancestors.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:29:20 2010 No.6216964 Fuck powerlevels I just made up a cute personality for Altrouge and fapped to her calling me onii-chan.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:33:20 2010 No.6216990

>>6216597
>Archer 4 km away in HA.
Throughout the story he improved a lot.
In UBW, Shirou had a hard time to see Rin, but he could do it at least.
But later, after having been exposed to Archer, and little by little streaming his knowledge and memories, he learned to properly strengthen limbs/muscles and all other kinds of shit.

He certainly does have an affinity for it. After what he realized what he could do, and after he realized how he should train, I don't think it's weird that he could.
Archer learned these things within his lifetime, and he can basically see any tiny detail within line of sight no matter distance.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:33:20 2010 No.6216995

>>6216925
Shiki is a demon hunter. He has a hax lineage, but those use psychic powers instead of magic, kinda like Azaka.

The structure grasping thing is a pretty much an unique ability of Shirou's, I doubt it can be easily learned because it ties straight into his "putting image to his mind" thing which is pretty rare.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:34:20 2010 No.6216997 >>6216883 >>6216963 I forget, is ORT's so-called "Reality Marble" actually a Reality Marble, or is it just called that because it has a similar effect even though it's really just a physical change caused by proximity to ORT's body?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:35:20 2010 No.6216999 >>6216997 Not actually a reality marble, just similar.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:35:20 2010 No.6217000 >>6216995 >pretty rare >we see almost everybody in the Fate series use Reinforcement >pretty rare Right.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:37:20 2010 No.6217018 >>6216953 >more skilled than Ciel >more skilled than an immortal that Kotomine can't even match with a large number of magic circuits Really?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:37:20 2010 No.6217019

>>6216963
>Gaia > Reality Marbles
Yes of course, that's why the Reality Marbles doesn't manage to overwrite Gaia, replacing the world.

But that still doesn't matter.
No matter them being weaker, while up they are still an entirely seperate entity from the world, and nothing about it cares about Gaia.
It is a seperate world, it should be about as alien as things can be.

And Shiki can't process alien things.
The moment Shiki learns to kill ORT or other types abd alien beings is the moment I might accept him taking down a reality marble.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:38:20 2010 No.6217022

>>6217000
He means the visualize the entire structure of something in an instant like Shirou does to the Heater in the first 3 days.

An unrelated thought, but it would be nice if they were to make an OVA of the relevant scenes of H/A, if only for delicious Bazett and the Bridge scene. Of course it will never happen though.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:38:20 2010 No.6217026 >>6217000 Not reinforcement, the structure grasping thing. Thanks to it, Shirou can reinforce himself despite not being a crazy talented genius like Rin and Caster.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:41:20 2010 No.6217040

>>6217000
Only Shirou, Rin and Archer does that though.
Not even Saber does it, but she has those mana burst things, but that's more like combusting rocket fuel rather than powering up the machinery.
And Rin needed her Jewels that were stored with months and years worth of magical energy, and energy storing techniques of that kind/level is also unique to the Tohsaka lineage.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:42:20 2010 No.6217042 >>6217040 Oh and yes, Caster. But she is from the age of gods and does tons of shit that is impossible for modern magi.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:45:20 2010 No.6217051 >>6216910 Already tried and couldn't find it

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:46:20 2010 No.6217057 >>6217019 But, Shiki destroyed an RM already in Nero.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:46:20 2010 No.6217061 >>6216997 No, all the Types (including Arcueid) have the ability to overwrite their surroundings with the environment of their own planets (a leaking of their alien order).

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:46:20 2010 No.6217066 >>6217057 He didn't kill the RM, he killed Nero's existence, which caused the RM to dispel.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:50:20 2010 No.6217082 >>6217061 >all the Types (including Arcueid) >Types >Arcueid Nope. Gaia is unable to form a Type for whatever reason.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:50:20 2010 No.6217083

>>6217040
Even with these, I don't think you can ultimately discount Shiki ever learning how to reinforce himself. It's a question mark until Nasu answers them. Who's to say that Shiki isn't genius enough for the job? He's clearly a genius in just about anything regarding his body.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:51:20 2010 No.6217085 >>6217082 That's why including Arcuied. The thing didn't say Arcueid was a Type. It said Types + Arcueid.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:51:20 2010 No.6217087

>>6217018
Yes, he might do it, in skill that is.

Ciel has all these kinds of magical stuff.
It's like two people competing at running, only that one person isn't running, but is instead driving a motorcycle at full speed.
It's obvious that the one that is actually only just running won't win.

But then again, if they were competing fairly, Ciel might win again, due to physique (But how strong is he without that immortal crap and magic?), but in actual skill Kotomine might still have the upper hand, even if it doesn't seem like it would matter.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:52:20 2010 No.6217091 >>6217082 Gaia is supposedly too weak to create one and planets need to die in order to create a Type.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:52:20 2010 No.6217095 >>6217083 Except his brain, after all were Shiki truly a genius he would have ignored all those dumb bitches for Arihiko.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:55:20 2010 No.6217114 >>6217082 Arcueid is Type Moon Gaia is just borrowing her through a deal.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:57:20 2010 No.6217123 >>6217083 Shiki will not learn reinforcement. He doesn't have what it takes, and I'm 100% sure Nasu will not have Shiki ever use it because that would be recycling of powers. And being a genius athletic due to incest doesn't make one a genius magus.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:58:20 2010 No.6217127 >>6217095 No, if he would have been a genius, he would have ignored the other bitches in order to go with Arcueid to her castle, so that she can give him her pure blood and make him her immortal servant.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 15:59:20 2010 No.6217129 Hasnt Shikis dad failed at kouma because he has zero magic so he could not harm him?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:01:20 2010 No.6217142 >>6217114 The Crimson Moon is Type Moon. Gaia created the TAs using him as a template. Arc is a Gaian entity, but like all TAs, contains the CM within her due to his Reality Marble.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:01:20 2010 No.6217143 >>6217129 He nearly managed to do it with a drum stick. Had he had a proper weapon, he most likely would have succeeded.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:06:20 2010 No.6217166 >>6217143 But Kouma only had one eye, and Kiri had planned the fight for like 10 years. Both were handicapped, Kouma was just way better.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:08:20 2010 No.6217184

>>6217142
No, the original Crimson Moon is dead. And Arcueid herself IS the reincarnation of Crimson Moon, for that reason the Crimson Moon inside Arcueid is merely another Arcueid and not the Evil King of the Moon. It's like Original Crimson Moon = Type-Venus, while Arcueid = V/V.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:09:20 2010 No.6217185 >>6217166 But Kiri is the goddamn Batman.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:09:20 2010 No.6217190 >>6217166 Doesn't the text outright say Kiri would have killed him had he used an actual weapon? It's been a while since I've read KT or whatever covered that.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:15:20 2010 No.6217215 >>6217123 >He doesn't have what it takes, Completely unfounded. He's one of the best humans in existence even without any magic. >and I'm 100% sure Nasu will not have Shiki ever use it because that would be recycling of powers Kara no Kyoukai

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:16:20 2010 No.6217218

>>6217184
I never said CM was alive. His RM lets him reincarnate in ALL TAs. Arc is just the only TA close enough in scope to the original CM to be a valid candidate. Altrouge is a candidate too, if I recall correctly; has to do with summoning the Millenium Castle and the name Brunestud.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:18:20 2010 No.6217230

>>6217190
My memory's real fuzzy too, that might have been the case, but the reason he managed to get Kouma's neck at all was because Kouma had a blind spot because he was missing an eye. The same eye Kiri 10 years ago popped because he felt that the harmless kid in front of him would become too strong.

Kiri already had a plan 10 years prior to the fight and had been expecting the day they'd meet again ever since, Kouma just came steamrolling with no thought because Makihisa told him to.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:19:20 2010 No.6217234 So, in Notes, when Gaia dies, could someone like Shirou use a RM without anything fighting back?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:19:20 2010 No.6217240

>>6217215
To add, being a genius athlete may or may not mean that Shiki has circuits in his body that he can use for magecraft. No one knows. But the fact that he has a magic circuit in his eyes may tell us he might have more, just that his family never used them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:21:20 2010 No.6217246 >>6217234 Possibly. However, doesn't the Gin in the atmosphere fuck with thaumaturgy?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:23:20 2010 No.6217260

>>6217215
Gotta agree with this. Reinforcement isn't like UBW. You can actually learn it, and pretty fast if you're genius enough for it. The question becomes, is Shiki genius enough to learn it?

That is a question you cannot have a definite yes or no answer for now.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:26:20 2010 No.6217275

>>6217234
I don't know.
Wasn't their world replaced with something? Araya perhaps, the combined conscience of man.

But yeah I don't know. The Gin that reeks all over the olace could possibly interfeare.
But I don't know, I don't know how any of us would know.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:32:20 2010 No.6217314

>>6217215
He's great physically because he's inbred for generations by a bunch of freaky (non-magus) psychic assassins. That doesn't mean he has magic circuits. Only the Jougan had a magic circuit by default due to their nature as mystic eyes, but nothing implies he or any other Nanaya is capable of becoming a good magus.

Seriously, just drop it, we're just arguing in circles now.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:37:20 2010 No.6217343 >>6217314 Nothing implies that he can't. He exceeds his father's potential. He's not just any other Nanaya.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:38:20 2010 No.6217346 You people arguing about wheter Shiki can be a magus or not, where do they state that his eyes have a magic circuit? I thought the MEoDP were just something similar to a circuit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:39:20 2010 No.6217354 >>6217314 Anyone can have Magic Circuits, but most people don't care or don't realize they are there because they are turned off.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:40:20 2010 No.6217366 >>6217346 Mystic eyes are basically mutated magic circuits near the eyes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:46:20 2010 No.6217401 Shirou sucks at using magic because his Magic Circuits are inferior compared to normal magic circuits. Like REALLY inferior.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:50:20 2010 No.6217418

>>6217260
>>6217343
>For a time, the Nanaya were considered one of the most powerful families of the Organization. Though they possessed a psychic ability in the form of Pure Eyes, what truly made them so powerful was their assassination skills and the refinement of normal human physical potential taken to the maximum level, which allowed them to perform incredible feats of athletics and acrobatics such as defying gravity to run across walls. So that their powers could be passed down to their descendants, the Nanaya maintained the purity of their bloodline by having incestuous relations between themselves.
Nanaya's use psychic powers, NOT magic. Reinforcement itself is considered hard, and reinforcing living creatures is even harder, and if you fail, you poison the creature. Shirou is cheating with his unique ability of visualizing shit, otherwise he couldn't even dream of doing it.

Shiki has never studied magic. His whole clan didn't study or use magic at all. He's inbred in this damn clan of non-magi. No point thinking he's a genius at magic, because there is nothing that implies so.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:51:20 2010 No.6217423 >>6217401 It's more the fact that his are "rusty" due to the way he was using magic. Given some training odds are he'll be able to get up to normal output with time.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 16:53:20 2010 No.6217435

>>6217418
His clan never studied magic. They spent their lives either dying or training for assassination using human skillsets. That doesn't say or prevent them from learning anything.

The sole fact that they have circuits, and the fact that they are bred as some of the best humans in the modern age counts for something. You cannot definitely say that he can't learn at a genius pace, considering the fact that he comes from a genius lineage itself.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:01:20 2010 No.6217476
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>>6217435
>learn at a genius pace
Considering Shiki is borderline retarded, I doubt there's anything genius in his brain except for inbred killing techniques. He even has trouble with elementay school stuff.

All that incest made his hed not so gude.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:05:20 2010 No.6217494

>>6217476
Actually children from incestuous relationships aren't necessarily dumber. Actually it was a rather common thing in prestigious families in the past, the down side is that if there are dodgy recessive genes in your family you're pretty screwed.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:07:20 2010 No.6217505 >>6217476 >implying incest makes you stupid

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:07:20 2010 No.6217507 Never change, /jp/.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:10:20 2010 No.6217521 >>6217476 since when was shiki shirou?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:10:20 2010 No.6217530

>>6217435
The clan had mystic eyes.
But they were never magi.

But yes, the mystic eyes have a circuit, and that's at least something.
But give this thought a spin.
At the moment they gained mystic eyes, the inbreeding started.
They would have never gotten any more if they only bred with eachother.

Also, Shirou had to go through vigurous and deadly training, using a method no magi uses, for about a decade in order to reach the level he is at, and that level is quite visibly sub-par, he can't even do the most simplest type of spells.

But Shirou is also a freak as a magus. As Archer said himself, he, unlike any other legitimate magus, uses his nervous system as his magic circuits.
But then again, these circuits aren't that good for anything not related with UBW.

Now, you could of course just pull the card saying "But Shiki might be a genious on a level so entirely different from Shirou that he might succeed at it even so!", but keep in mind how Archer, kept training/studying his entire life. And to be frank, other than his reality marlbe, he sucks as a magus and is a failure as one.

Would Shiki accomplish what Archer didn't within his entire lifespan? And faster as well?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:13:20 2010 No.6217534 >>6217530 >Would Shiki accomplish what Archer didn't within his entire lifespan? And faster as well? A rather relevant question, since Shiki has about 10 years left before he dies.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:16:20 2010 No.6217551

>>6217476
Not studying religion doesn't make you stupid. Shiki lives in a fairly atheistic country, stayed in a mountain most of his childhood, then freaking lived most of his life either getting sick, getting fucked by his childhood collegiate caretaker/cherry hunter, or in the hospital.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:17:20 2010 No.6217555 >>6217530 Rin didn't spend an entire lifetime to learn what she needed. Check mate.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:18:20 2010 No.6217563 >>6217555 No, but her ancestors did, and they transplanted it into her through their magic crest.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:20:20 2010 No.6217568

>>6217530
>Would Shiki accomplish what Archer didn't within his entire lifespan? And faster as well?
Shiki is talent personified, the type of guys who don't even do anything to better themselves yet have all the ability in the world. The antithesis to Shirou's hard work and guts.

Some guys just have that talent. Tohsaka Rin is not over the age of 20, right? I doubt she started studying magic from age 1.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:21:20 2010 No.6217576 >>6217563 She also has a very exceptional amounts of circuits and an elemental affinity with all elements other than that odd anti-element thing.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:21:20 2010 No.6217580
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>>6217530

>And to be frank, other than his reality marlbe, he sucks as a magus and is a failure as one.

"To be frank", he's not a magus otherwise.

The only spells he can cast are rooted in his Reality Marble. Reinforcement, Alteration, and Projection are all extensions of Unlimited Blade Works' Tracing process.

His Circuits only can cast one spell. Those three are just individual components of that one true spell.

White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ Fri Oct 1 17:22:20 2010 No.6217581

There is no "Nanaya mode," just a disconnect between what Shiki thinks he can do normally and what he's actually capable of doing all the time.

It's like the training given to baby elephants: they can't break a little chain when they're young, and therefore give up; they never try to break it when they're older because they're conditioned to believe they can't do it.

Then you panic the elephant, and it breaks the chain, and then starts rampaging all over everything in its path.

In Shiki's case, he reverts back to a simple calculative process: something to kill, no body limits or long-term consequences to consider. All that matters is killing this one thing, even if it means giving up an arm or a leg, or even your life.

Nanaya assassins either killed their target, or they didn't come back. That was it.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:24:20 2010 No.6217594

>>6217534
That depends, Arcueid can give him more blood if she wants. In fact, at the end of Ciel's route Arcueid said that she will wait for Ciel to die before taking Shiki with her, meaning that her pure blood should be able to keep him alive for an indefinite ammount of time.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:25:20 2010 No.6217598

>>6217580
Yes, but he could try to cast other spells.
Only to fail horribly though.

But do you think he ever stopped studying magic?
He actually does have a rank in magic knowledge.
A lousy rank perhaps, but the thing about him having the skill listed at all makes it noteworthy.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:25:20 2010 No.6217601

>>6217530
>But Shirou is also a freak as a magus. As Archer said himself, he, unlike any other legitimate magus, uses his nervous system as his magic circuits.
>But then again, these circuits aren't that good for anything not related with UBW.

Regarding the nervous system as circuits, that's only before he has his circuit turned on such as eating the Jewel in Fate, Archer doing it in UBW or whatever happens in UBW.
And his 27 actual circuits can be used for things other than UBW, it's just that he doesn't know any thaumaturgy aside from Reinforcement and Projection, well, during the games any way.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:26:20 2010 No.6217608

>>6217568
Rin's got the magic crest, with all her ancestors' skills in it. Shiki has nothing of that sort. Well he's got his killer blood but once again, nothing to do with magic. And nothing implies he'd be a good magus. Just because he's inbred to be a super cool killer doesn't mean he's a genius at everything else. He's rather dense and not very good at school, for example.

He's JUST good at killing. ONLY killing. That's what he was bred for.

White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ Fri Oct 1 17:29:20 2010 No.6217614

>>6217366
Psychic power is unrelated to "magical circuits" in the same way that demonic power is unrelated to them. Similar principles, but no real connection. Psychic power is an extra-sensory ability which, in Shiki's case, overlays onto his ocular sense. Arcueid assumes they're like normal Mystic Eyes that magi/vampires use, which do operate on magic circuits. Arcueid doesn't understand psychic power, though, which makes sense, as she doesn't know about things she's never encountered/had no reason to expect to encounter.

I'm guessing his ability to see lines gives in greatly to his "spider sense" ability, and he can move faster by blind reflex trying to cut lines than he can by consciously acquiring them visually.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:30:20 2010 No.6217621

>>6217601
>that's only before he has his circuit turned on such as eating the Jewel in Fate, Archer doing it in UBW or whatever happens in UBW.
What that did was only to reveal what he already had.
And in UBW he learned that his circuits are made for UBW, that's why summoning UBW went so seemingly smooth even though it was a spell far past his level.

But
>that's only before
Archer said that Rin couldn't teach him magic in a good way because Rin would -never- understand the magic of a magic user who uses his own nervous system as his circuits.

I believe it's heavily implied that Archer's circuits are the same.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:30:20 2010 No.6217624

>>6217608
He's not that dense. Particularly because he doesn't have much conviction. They man is also witty. The reason he's bad at school is because of some dude that's sucking half of his life force, forcing him to just not keep up with everything. It's actually a miracle he never repeats a class.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:35:20 2010 No.6217645 >>6217608 His body is an exceptional specimen. It contains at least one magic circuit. That does not mean he does not have more. His family is a family of assassins, not magi. That does not mean he does not have the potential to be a genius.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:35:20 2010 No.6217646

>>6217621
>Archer said that Rin couldn't teach him magic in a good way because Rin would -never- understand the magic of a magic user who uses his own nervous system as his circuits.
That was because Rin was the type of person that never had trouble with thaumaturgy and wouldn't be able to identify with only an average at best person, not because Shirou uses his nervous system as a circuit, which he stops doing. He only does that when he creates a circuit from scratch.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:36:20 2010 No.6217647

>>6217614
>Arcueid assumes they're like normal Mystic Eyes that magi/vampires use

No, she didn't. Arcueid explicitly said that a circuit must have oppened in Shiki's brain because he SHOULD have experienced at least one death experience.

>she doesn't know about things she's never encountered/had no reason to expect to encounter.

She still knew about the MEoDP, even though she thought they were a legend, right? The reason Arcueid is nigh omnicient is because the world's knowledge = her knowledge, the world provides her with everything she needs to know. Even though that knowledge is erased and washed out everytime she goes back to sleep at her castle. Of course, she still has her superhuman intelligence which allows her to absorb information from her surroundings, so what she learns in the outside world isn't erased.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:37:20 2010 No.6217650 I can't believe the discussions you guys are having. Guess next step is writting a fanfiction about Shiki becoming a magus, right?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:38:20 2010 No.6217653 >>6217624 Twin routes were a fine example of Shiki being dense. Every player figured out the twin switch way before Shiki did. >TAKE THE RIBBON HISUI, TAKE THE RIBBOOOON. Also, that one scene where he doesn't even know what christianity means.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:42:20 2010 No.6217666

>>6217646
>He only does that when he creates a circuit from scratch.
They said that you shouldn't/don't create a circuit each time you performs magic, you are only supposed to reveal them.

What Rin did with that Jewel was only to force open (revealing) the circuits Shirou had already worked hard to gain.
But they are still the same circuits.

If you claim that his old circuits are his nervous system, and that he stopped using those circuits later.
Then, just when did he gain proper magic circuits?

As I said I believe it's heavily implied that even Archer only has his nervous system as circuits, and it's those circuits that are attuned to their reality marble.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:44:20 2010 No.6217672

Being able to strengthen ones body like that is considered a high caliber thing to do.

Shirou had an affinity for it.
We don't know what kind of magic Shiki might have, or if he even has one.

But you aren't just asking if he could become a magus within his life time, you asking wether or not he could become a -great- magus within his lifetime.

White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ Fri Oct 1 17:45:20 2010 No.6217674

>>6217647
She doesn't understand how his ability actually works, though. She keeps saying "circuit," when it's actually a completely unrelated psychic ability that mutated upon experiencing death. The World should have a very limited understanding of psychic power, anyway, as it's not something that exists in nature. Psychic power arises solely from humanity, and disappears almost always with the generation it appears in. It's not something that can be acquired through research, experience, or modification. It's something one is only born with.

That the Nanaya family would breed for this genetic mutation which gives rise to inherent psychic ability in a family line is incredibly extreme, which is why they're so crazy awesome.

Arcueid misunderstands a lot of stuff about Shiki, mainly because she doesn't know what his background is. Akiha actually knows more about Shiki and his power than Arcueid does, since she can place WHY he has it and the sort of stuff it could do, since her family worked with and eventually fought against his family.

Arcueid is an outside observer who is trying to understand by piecing together things she knows and apply them to his apparent ability.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:45:20 2010 No.6217677

>>6217645
But we shouldn't assume he is a genius magus, because he has one fucking circuit. Shirou has 27 and he sucks. There is nothing in Tsukihime, KT or any official material that would give us a reason to believe Shiki is any good at magic, this discussion is as retarded as it gets. You're pulling what-ifs and crazy off the wall possiblities and theories.

Seriously, fanboy goggles much? Go jerk off to your Satsujinki fanfiction at Beasts Lair, because you aren't making any sense.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:46:20 2010 No.6217678

>>6217653
And don't forget that Shiki also thought that Nrvnqsr was the responsible of all the vampire murders, even though he knew that Nrvnqsr completely swallowed his victims instead of just sucking their blood. It was so funny when Arc called him out on that one.

>>	White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ Fri Oct 1 17:47:20 2010 No.6217682 >>6217678 To be fair, he realized that before talking to Arc and thought that she was the one responsible for the other murders.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:49:20 2010 No.6217684

>>6217666
>Then, just when did he gain proper magic circuits?
From when he was born, like everyone else. And it's pretty much explicitly stated that the nerve circuits dissolve after he turns them off. And with expanding the reality marble being so easy, it would probably be because every person's reality marble is a part of themselves and their soul, and magic circuits come from the soul

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:50:20 2010 No.6217688 >Tsubame Gaeshi >This technique is a technique of carnage that challenges God with mere human skill. >Only God would be able to block it. Assassin can kill DAAs, discuss.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:51:20 2010 No.6217694 >>6217684 Also, this is why Shirou can still use magic just as well in HF True End as otherwise, he would lose the 27 circuits that he made over and over, due to losing that body.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:51:20 2010 No.6217696 >>6217674 > Akiha actually knows more about Shiki and his power than Arcueid does No, Akiha doesn't know anything about the MEoDP. You cannot say that Akiha knows more about the MEoDP than Arcueid, that's just silly.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:52:20 2010 No.6217705 >>6217688 And then his katanah bends.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:55:20 2010 No.6217724

>>6217647
>>6217674
>She keeps saying "circuit," when it's actually a completely unrelated psychic ability that mutated upon experiencing death.

Also, I suggest you to read the Rakkyo novels. In order to use the MEoDP, a special circuit needs to be opened in the brain. Read the Rakkyo novels, all this is thoroughly explained in the prologue of Remaining Sense of Pain.
Also

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:57:20 2010 No.6217736 >>6217688 What about, you know.. Simply surviving it? Vampires are tenacious as FUCK if you don't attack them with sacramental weaponry.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 17:59:20 2010 No.6217753 >>6217682 No, he thought that Arcueid was the responsible for the new victim, the one that appeared after Nrvnqsr died. He even admited his mistake when Arcueid told him that Nrvnqsr actually swallowed his victims.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 18:10:20 2010 No.6217788 >>6217724 >Also Also what? Don't just keep us hanging like that without finishing your sentence.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 18:21:20 2010 No.6217834 A better question would be when will the remake come out?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 18:22:20 2010 No.6217841 >>6217834 2018 at the earliest I'd say.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 18:34:20 2010 No.6217907 >>6217841 Will it be translated by 2112?

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 18:40:20 2010 No.6217932

>>6217694
No.
All that would be neccesary is for his new nervous system to adapt again.
The soul remembers, and that's even why his body is the same even though it's a doll.

I still firmly believes that he only had his nervous system.
And in it he has 27 circuits.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 18:50:20 2010 No.6217997 >>6217932 Well, enjoy believing wrong then, I guess. But I do have to say, if one could just keep on making circuits like you propose, why don't other lineage of maguses do so especially when magic circuits are the second most valuable thing for one.

White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ Fri Oct 1 18:59:20 2010 No.6218045

>>6217696
You're missing the point entirely. I said she would know more about the family history that lets him have such a power. Arcueid knows nothing about it. She assumes it's some random magical circuit that opened upon dying, when it's not. Akiha knows the Nanaya clan weren't magicians, which you'd expect someone with a magic circuit powerful enough to channel true Mystic Eyes would be of a family with a recorded lineage of using thaumaturgy.

Shiki's Mystic Eyes are fake, after all. They're not thaumaturgicaly derived. They mimic the abilities of true Mystic Eyes, but aren't really Mystic Eyes.

>>6217724
Ryougi Shiki doesn't have a psychic ability. Their method of obtaining the ability to see death is different, even if they see the same death. Nanaya Shiki could always see "things that shouldn't exist," while Ryougi didn't see anything before obtaining eyes of death perception.

>>6217997
They don't do it because making a magical circuit is essentially meaningless if the quality of it isn't good. Having more circuits =/= being more powerful if the quality of the individual circuits is poor.

One person with 1 extraordinarily good circuit could be more valuable than another person with 5 mediocre ones.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 19:16:20 2010 No.6218146

>>6217997
Shirou wasn't born with 27 circuits, that's for sure.
He was an ordinary person, like Shinji, in terms of magical ability and circuits.

But Shirou went through lifethreatening and horribly crude and not even very good methods of achieving them.

Normal Magi don't do that sort stuff because it's stupid.
If it was actually viable, then Zouken would have forced his children to do it generations ago, and build his way up from there and buff it up through marriages and so on.
But the thing is, the person who does this sort of thing, is likely to die, and even if they do succeed they wouldn't have gained anything worth enough for anyone to care, because it would still be shit.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 21:19:20 2010 No.6218673

>>6216905
>Caster's master in Fate/Zero did a summoning ritual using sacrfifices powered with prana, rather than using circuits himself.
Because of the grail. Did you even play FS/N?

>>6217083
Well, when you and your Shiki-fans keep saying that he likely can with no evidence other than he's hax in other aspects that are unrelated to magecraft, it's completely natural for us to make an assumption that he can't and doesn't as well. You have no proof and you keep trying to assert and assumption as fact, and when we do it, you claim we just don't want Shiki to be hax?
lolwut? Sure is asspain at the thought that your favourite character can't beat everyone in the universe.

>>6217019
>>6217000
It looks like you haven't played FS/N. Shirou's method of reinforcement is unique from all other magus' because he percieves it differently, which leads to near perfect projections, something that is obviously not common. Please play the game before you comment.

Anonymous Fri Oct 1 21:19:20 2010 No.6218675

>>6218673

>>6217568
You're confusing physicall talent that is rooted in assassination techniques and abilities with magecraft. Just because I am a genius at logic gates and circuits programming using digiital processor, does not mean I am a genius when it comes 3rd order ODEs. You keep saying that Shiki can do everything, but it's obvious you are just sucking his cock. Seriously, the two are mutually exclusive at times.

>>6217601
You misread that entire section. The jewel awakened the other dormant circuits so that they could be switched on and off at will; it did not change his circuits. He still uses the nervous system as his primary means of channeling prana.

>>6218146
This as well. Shirou basically created circuits within himself because he was an idiot, as explained in HF. It's a miracle that he didn't like himself at one point for over the 3000~ times that he's done it. Seriously, the guy has a Mind of Steel.

Also, Shiki fanboys in this thread sort of make me rage, just randomly claiming that Shiki has 'potential', and that suddenly makes him able to become an excellent magus and such. Until Nasu states so, stick with the source material, or everything you say is just one gigantic logical fallacy.

Also, none of this matters, since Gil can technically kill everything but Gaia herself.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 1 22:49:20 2010 No.6218972 >>6218675 >Also, none of this matters, since Gil can technically kill everything but Gaia herself The True Demons would like to have a word with you. The only TM characters that can kill them are Arcueid and Void Shiki.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 2 05:48:20 2010 No.6220497 nazu writes hella shitty shonens

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 2 06:07:20 2010 No.6220568 File: 42 KB, 447x383, archer wakarimasen lol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6220497 Deal with it, pal.

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