Wizard-Hunting Wright thread. Looking forward to his inevitable rage the second he sets foot on Rokkenjima.

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Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:15:28 2010 No.5686416 [Reply] [Original]

Wizard-Hunting Wright thread. Looking forward to his inevitable rage the second he sets foot on Rokkenjima.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:17:28 2010 No.5686427 But Bern has the gameboard this time.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:19:28 2010 No.5686435

1. The reader must have equal opportunity with the detective for solving the mystery. All clues must be plainly stated and described.

2. No willful tricks or deceptions may be placed on the reader other than those played legitimately by the criminal on the detective himself.

3. There must be no love interest. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar. Fuck you Beato x Battler.

4. The detective himself, or one of the official investigators, should never turn out to be the culprit. This is bald trickery, on a par with offering some one a bright penny for a five-dollar gold piece. It's false pretenses.

5. The culprit must be determined by logical deductions — not by accident or coincidence or unmotivated confession.

6. The detective novel must have a detective in it; and a detective is not a detective unless he detects.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:21:28 2010 No.5686441

>>5686435
7. There simply must be a corpse in a detective novel, and the deader the corpse the better. No lesser crime than murder will suffice.

8. The problem of the crime must he solved by strictly naturalistic means.

9. There must be but one detective — that is, but one protagonist of deduction — one deus ex machina.

10. The culprit must turn out to be a person who has played a more or less prominent part in the story.

11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit.

12. There must be but one culprit, no matter how many murders are committed.

13. Secret societies, camorras, mafias, et al., have no place in a detective story.

14. The method of murder, and the means of detecting it, must be be rational and scientific.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:23:28 2010 No.5686450

>>5686441

15. The truth of the problem must at all times be apparent — provided the reader is shrewd enough to see it.

16. A detective novel should contain no long descriptive passages, no literary dallying with side-issues, no subtly worked-out character analyses, no "atmospheric" preoccupations.

17. A professional criminal must never be shouldered with the guilt of a crime in a detective story.

18. A crime in a detective story must never turn out to be an accident or a suicide.

19. The motives for all crimes in detective stories should be personal.

20. And (to give my Credo an even score of items) I herewith list a few of the devices which no self-respecting detective story writer will now avail himself of. They have been employed too often, and are familiar to all true lovers of literary crime. To use them is a confession of the author's ineptitude and lack of originality. (a) Determining the identity of the culprit by comparing the butt of a cigarette left at the scene of the crime with the brand smoked by a suspect. (b) The bogus spiritualistic se'ance to frighten the culprit into giving himself away. (c) Forged fingerprints. (d) The dummy-figure alibi. (e) The dog that does not bark and thereby reveals the fact that the intruder is familiar. (f)The final pinning of the crime on a twin, or a relative who looks exactly like the suspected, but innocent, person. (g) The hypodermic syringe and the knockout drops. (h) The commission of the murder in a locked room after the police have actually broken in. (i) The word association test for guilt. (j) The cipher, or code letter, which is eventually unraveled by the sleuth.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:29:28 2010 No.5686468

>>5686435
>>5686441
>>5686450

How the flying FUCK is ryukishi gonna write himself outta this?

Seriously, he's broken at least half of these rules already. I guess it means that if trollkastel is goin to follow them to the letter that eliminates at least 5 suspects straight away, unless some serious word play is put into use, but that breaks another rule of straightforwardness. Hmmm.

I'm looking forward to this, i might just forgo missing out on the spoilers and listen in anyway till the translation comes out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:32:28 2010 No.5686476 >>5686468 The more rules he writes up the more bricks he lays for his mausoleum entrance.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:34:28 2010 No.5686487 File: 468 KB, 800x601, 11744302.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Buckle up, kids. This one's going to be bloody.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:37:28 2010 No.5686500 in before BUT THIS IS A FANTASY NOVEL SCREW YOU KNOX!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:39:28 2010 No.5686512 >>5686487 >Someone that isn't battorah pointing OH GOD I CAME.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:39:28 2010 No.5686513

>>5686468
If he ends this satisfactorily, it probably means he's been intentionally writing through loopholes in these from the beginning, and we just don't know where the loopholes are yet. My money, though, is on him fucking up. Even a fuckin league of extraordinary writers made up of god damn Poe, Shakespeare, Dostoevsky, Mark Twain, etc. couldn't write their way out of this mess.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:40:28 2010 No.5686519 >>5686513 But none of those were mystery writers.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:40:28 2010 No.5686523 Wright vs Battler Finger pointing battle. Make it happen Male Featherine.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:41:28 2010 No.5686524 >>5686512 I for one desperately want some form of Battler versus Dine MANLY FIGHT.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:41:28 2010 No.5686525 >>5686519 No but they were writers who knew not to make up rules that are impossible to obey.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:42:28 2010 No.5686527 >>5686519 Hence the "etc." It would have all the great mystery writers, too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:43:28 2010 No.5686533 Multiple truths were hammered into our heads in Ep6. Wright and Bern will have their version of truth supported by the 20 Wedges differing from Battler and Beato's.

>>	None !OSakaQCVow Sat Jul 17 07:44:28 2010 No.5686535 >>5686468 >How the flying FUCK is ryukishi gonna write himself outta this? Why would he need to? It's obvious he's practically making fun of Wright.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:45:28 2010 No.5686539
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Ep 7 will actually have 2 games.
1. Bern will show the cold truth while Battler is forced to watch.
2. Same game again but this time Battler and Beato are allowed to do the same shit Rika and Keiichi did.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:45:28 2010 No.5686541 >>5686468 >Seriously, he's broken at least half of these rules already In the past episode Just like Knox, the new episode will rule out all the shit that was there until now.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:46:28 2010 No.5686543 File: 38 KB, 492x500, 1259790690367.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5686468 >How the flying FUCK is ryukishi gonna write himself outta this? It was all a dream!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:47:28 2010 No.5686549 >How the flying FUCK is ryukishi gonna write himself outta this? Kinzos Beato sitting in her Villa writing up Novels.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:48:28 2010 No.5686554 >>5686549 Self-insert fanfics are always the worst.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 07:58:28 2010 No.5686586 Hope he destroyers that faggy Beato-Battler shit. That make no sense.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:00:28 2010 No.5686593 >>5686586 This. "You were only killing everyone in my family over and over again because your crush on me didn't go anywhere? I'm so sorry! Forgive me! I love you!"

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:02:28 2010 No.5686605 File: 109 KB, 566x800, 11698150_p5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5686593 Servants cannot be culprits.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:05:28 2010 No.5686615

>>5686605
Beatrice isn't a servant.
She is a personality inside Sayo who own Rokkenjima and the gold.
If personalities = people in Umineko, and that's Hachijou and Ange confirm, then one personality can have a job, servant, and the other can have another job, witch.

Enjoy the loophole that Ryukishi will use.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:07:28 2010 No.5686627

We already know that Ryukishi altered Knox's rules, and we don't know what he will do to Wright's.
I am not quite sure if he could manage the story as it is with all of Wright's as they are.

Anyway
Bernkastel wants to tell a bare-bones store devoid of love
Wright was also opposed to include love in mysteries.
>3. There must be no love interest. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar.

He will make use of Wright to turn the whole game upside down.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:10:28 2010 No.5686644 >16. A detective novel should contain no long descriptive passages, no literary dallying with side-issues, no subtly worked-out character analyses, no "atmospheric" preoccupations. Ryukishi himself confirmed for the final victim of Wright's massacre.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:12:28 2010 No.5686650 >>5686615 >If personalities = people in Umineko, and that's Hachijou and Ange confirm Enjoy this shit being denied by Bern in red.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:12:28 2010 No.5686652 >>5686519 Poe is considered the one who started the mystery genre and even wrote the first locked room murder story. >>5686533 THIS. >>5686593 You fail at understanding Umineko.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:17:28 2010 No.5686666 >>5686650 Till she does, it's valid considering they talked about it in the GAME ITSELF. Most people realize that the whole personality = people thing is retarded, but this is what was presented in the game so what can we do?

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:27:28 2010 No.5686696
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I will say this once more
The whole idea behind the mystery genre is that things truly aren't as they are first laid out.
Now in Umineko things are laid out as murders done by a witch, that however has been denied from the beginning so it doesn't matter.
So if we ignore the witch and look at what's laid out next, we get ShKanon among others.
If this is true, then Ryukishi has failed as a mystery writer and he shouldn't refer to his own work as a mystery novel, neither inside his work or outside it.

In a proper mystery novel there should be yet another sulution.
Not the one that's impossible, not the one that's first laid out after you ignore the impossible, but something else.

I guess we will see how good of a writer Ryukishi turns out to be soon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:31:28 2010 No.5686713 >>5686696 I bet you think you're the highest meta battler in that picture

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:31:28 2010 No.5686714 >>5686696 Then again he could possibly take the "there are always multiple truths" route, if he does however then this most certainly is nothing like a mystery novel or anything like it at all.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:31:28 2010 No.5686715 File: 78 KB, 1378x831, 1279152588308.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5686696 Yeah, that solution is called Zero theory.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:32:28 2010 No.5686719

>>5686696
>>I guess we will see how good of a writer Ryukishi turns out to be soon.
Protip: he isn't good.

It's been 6 episodes and nobody can put a theory that is as solid as ShKanontrice, neither here nor in the Japanese fandom.
So it's simple, either Ryukishi is just that smart making a solution that nobody could find even after like 6 games that add up to 50 hours of reading, or people just discovered the truth.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:36:28 2010 No.5686729

>>5686713
>I bet you think you're the highest meta battler in that picture
No no, I hate to make myself seem "big" like that, I find self-righteous people with huge egos like that disgusting.
It's simply my favorite picture, and I like how it sums up the games progression up to Ep6.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:37:28 2010 No.5686731 >>5686719 Or maybe their theories are not described in one word, so you pretend not to notice them.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:37:28 2010 No.5686732

Anyone got the full resolution HQ version of all the umineko portraits? (not that 300 x 300 pixel shit) tried asking /r/ but no response. This is a umineko thread and i'm sure someone here will have them..
I'm looking for the one with Beatrice, Beatrice in the suit, EVAtrice, the group one, Erika and Battler.

But i'll say something related to this thread as well, that is...... WIZARD HUNTER WRIGHT HAS A LOCH OF BATTLERS HAIR ON HIS HEAD THE DYE IS A LIE!!!!!

kkthx

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:39:28 2010 No.5686735 >>5686732 >kkthx I was gonna do it till that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:39:28 2010 No.5686736 File: 915 KB, 1024x768, battlervswright.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Get your Shkanontrice shit out of here, this is Van Dine time.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:47:28 2010 No.5686773

>>5686731
Most of the alternate theories aren't solid at all.
They don't try to explain anything, they just try to deny ShKanon which is a quite retarded way of thinking.
Rather these theories should try to solve why people are dying, who is Beatrice, and some problem of consistency like why do we never see Kanon's body, etc... and stop focusing on or two closed rooms.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:48:28 2010 No.5686782 >>5686735 What. Hmmm........ Sorry?

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:52:28 2010 No.5686791

>>5686715
>Zero theory
I never got this.
I raised questions in the original thread as well but it didn't seem to catch on.

With ShKanon Kanon is Zero either way, that's how the numbers at the end of Ep6 adds up with both 18 and 17 being true.
Te way I see it Kanon being Zero does nothing other than support ShKanon, he is Zero because he is nothing other than a persona, he lacks a real body and shares Shanon's thus he isn't a proper human being and can't be counted as one.

If that's not the case, then -why- is Kanon supposed to be the Zero? Because he said he is? That may be true but it doesn't cut it, we need to be able to guess why he is the Zero.
Also Kanon isn't the only furniture, so if we go by the statement that furniture are less than human and that it affects the numbers that way, then all of a sudden we have to explain how Kanon differ from the rest of the furniture, simply because he is not the only one.

Why is he counted as Zero? How does it add up? And how does it all work together?
I never got this, not in that thread and not in the later ones either.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:52:28 2010 No.5686792 >>5686782 It's not helping that you don't even understand what you did wrong. You can't just apologize without knowing what you're sorry for. See Battler's sin.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:58:28 2010 No.5686799 >>5686782 http://www.mediafire.com/?megtvnnt2gm Now I am not that guy, but what people reacted over is how your way of writing is much so out of place here, it reminds me of how I wrote as a 13 year old, you make yourself look like a little kid/brat

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 08:59:28 2010 No.5686802 >>5686791 Why are Shannon and Kanon supposed to be the same person? Because ShkShitters said so?

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:00:28 2010 No.5686807

>>5686791

Alright, I'll sum it all up easily.

Only those with the "on" in their names are counted as actual furniture, everyone else is just a damn hired useless fob. The goal of the Zero theory isn't to deny Shkannon, but to show that it can support it and can be a stand alone theory.

Think about it like this. Kinzo gets kids from the orphanage, he turns them into "furniture". Whatever the hell he does to them. These furniture are not counted among humans but are people still. To support this witches are also a sub-type of humans, which is why the game didn't end when Eva said only humans had a connection to the game. Get it?

Furniture=Witches. Now, looking at it like this you can still both support Shkannon, or make it stand alone. Which is fine, I could care less about Shkannon. Kanon both mentioned in EP 1 and in EP 6 that he would leave, quit being furniture, etc... once Shannon dies/leaves/quits. You could take Shannon accepting George's proposal as her quitting, because she plans on leaving the island as soon as possible with George. Kanon finds out in each episode under certain circumstances and he drops his shitty Kanon title, the furniture persona/title. Then he becomes Joshua. To support this as well in EP 2 he confesses his name to Jessica, you don't exactly get to see it happen but it still does. Later when you come back they say "Kanon died in this room". You could then infer that once becoming Joshua he stops being Kanon(I.E quits being a furniture and becomes human). You following me camera guy?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:00:28 2010 No.5686809 >>5686802 >>ShkShitters That's the nice thing about shitty terms like this, you can tell right away it's always the same guy who post.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:01:28 2010 No.5686812 >>5686791 Don't worry about that "Zero theory" too much. It's just one tard samefagging all over the place. Kanon only used that as a metaphor to show Beatrice how he was able to hurt her. I'm near 100% sure that it has no actual relevance.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:02:28 2010 No.5686816 >>5686807 >I could care less Reported.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:03:28 2010 No.5686817 >>5686799 Anyone know if the high res Episode 7 portrait is in this already?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:03:28 2010 No.5686818 >>5686809 Your double quoting habits also make you easily identifiable.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:04:28 2010 No.5686823 >>5686816 >I couldn't care less Happy now?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:05:28 2010 No.5686827 >>5686791 Really, I always saw Kanon's "zero on your roulette" speech as him goading his opponent. A roulette table with a zero on it offers a slightly better chance in the house's favor, while a non-zero table offers correct odds for all parties.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:05:28 2010 No.5686829 >>5686809 >That's the nice thing >you can tell right away it's always the same guy who post. So I heard you like trip codes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:05:28 2010 No.5686831 >>5686823 Well you're still samefagging a retarded theory all over the place. I'd rather ShKanon to that.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:06:28 2010 No.5686838

>>5686792

Alright... You were referring too the 'kkthx' I really can't see whats wrong with that. 'kk' I was simply annoucing that I was finished talking and 'thx' I was just showing my appreciation to the person that would help. 'thx' is a acronym for 'thanks'...
Which made the widely known acronym or whatever speak you want to call it 'kkthx'

If you dont want me too say it fine.

But I am still requesting the pictures, and just change the 'kkthx' and will replace it with...

"Okay I've said what I wanted to say, thank you in advance for the help.".

Also I'll add this... /b/ and /jp/ are a lot more different after all.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:09:28 2010 No.5686851
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>>5686827

It's all in the matter of how you take things. Things in the meta scenes so far had at least some relevance.

>>5686831

I've done it twice. This is the second time, and I've stuck around to clear up any misunderstandings about it. If other people bring it up that really is out of my hands.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:10:28 2010 No.5686856 >>5686831 The DID meido fanatic and the Zero theory guy both hang out in the same place. You should go and annoy them there, maybe we can be rid of all three of you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:10:28 2010 No.5686858 >>5686593 Nice conclusion you're jumping to there in your attempt to take the easy way out. Shkannontrice is obviously true but that's all we know at this point. It's a fact, not a solution.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:12:28 2010 No.5686864 Just a question. After episode 6, how many people still think an answer other than DID meido is possible? Anyone still have hope that Ryuukishi07 will surprise us and make us shit bricks?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:12:28 2010 No.5686865 >>5686856 Get rid of me? What did I do? Also I wonder how you know where they hang out... closet ASfag?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:13:28 2010 No.5686867 >>5686864 Yes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:14:28 2010 No.5686872 >>5686864 Anything is possible. To put it like Ryukishi said, humans can't do anything except use the blue truth. If we could say that there is only one definite answer then we'd be witches.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:15:28 2010 No.5686878 >>5686865 1. If you're the guy I'm thinking of you pretty much go around calling everyone retarded no matter what theory they say. Do you even have your own theory? 2. I wasn't even talking about AS.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:16:28 2010 No.5686888

>>5686864
No.
By episode 4 you are supposed to realize the who do it, why did it and how did it.
And I can't see anything other than DID maid who killed for love/take them to the golden land (which also explain the Maria connection) by abusing the switching hax that she possess.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:17:28 2010 No.5686891 >>5686856 Internet detective hard at work. Why is it that neko threads are always filled to the brim with rage? The rest of /jp/ can get along.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:20:28 2010 No.5686903 >>5686891 Well I guess anyone would be angry if they realized that the stuff they obsess over is actually shit beyond redemption, or something. They should go back to animesuki/gamefags and stay there.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:20:28 2010 No.5686905 >>5686891 All the rage comes from some shkannonfag samefag calling everyone retards with no reading comprehension.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:23:28 2010 No.5686921 >>5686878 Or do you just merge the personalities of all anonymous posters you don't like in your head and imagine they are the same person?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:26:28 2010 No.5686937 File: 106 KB, 356x480, sha_odorokia2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5686921 >Or do you just merge the personalities of all servants without alibis you don't like in your head and imagine they are the same person? Fixed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:27:28 2010 No.5686938 >>5686921 Blowing stuff out of proportion is another habit of yours which you use to deny all theories. When you're only selecting from the Umineko fans on /jp/ it's pretty easy to spot samefags, bro.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:28:28 2010 No.5686944 One month left of this stupidity. Some of you guys really, really need a break. There are other VNs that Umineko you know, go play them or something.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:30:28 2010 No.5686953 >>5686944 >There are other VNs that Umineko you know, go play them or something. How do you determine we don't play other VN?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:30:28 2010 No.5686956 >>5686953 Because you spend all your time in these shit threads.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:31:28 2010 No.5686960 >>5686953 Umineko is babby's first VN nowadays. Some of you might. A lot of you probably don't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:32:28 2010 No.5686966 >>5686956 How do you know we are the same anons of the other threads? How do you know we don't take a break sometime and play other things? Following your logic, we spent all our days in Umineko threads and do nothing else.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:33:28 2010 No.5686969

>And (to give my Credo an even score of items) I herewith list a few of the devices which no self-respecting detective story writer will now avail himself of. They have been employed too often, and are familiar to all true lovers of literary crime. To use them is a confession of the author's ineptitude and lack of originality.
>(a) Determining the identity of the culprit by comparing the butt of a cigarette left at the scene of the crime with the brand smoked by a suspect.

Kyrie and Rudolph are troll tier.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:34:28 2010 No.5686974 >>5686966 You get some pretty retarded posts and memes in Umifag threads you don't get on the rest of /jp/. Except during the weekly raid.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:34:28 2010 No.5686977

>>5686966
>Following your logic, we spent all our days in Umineko threads and do nothing else.

Reading these threads, it's most likely the case.
And only someone who didn't read much could obsess over something like Umineko, look at the wall of texts full of the most stupid shit ever you all wrote for god's sake.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:36:28 2010 No.5686985 >>5686977 Or maybe we aren't obsesses an we only like to talk. Actually, you guys who post pretty much this shit in every Umineko threads are probably obsesses for everything that is popular.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:45:28 2010 No.5687020 Less samefagging moar hypothesising on what dines rules will do to the gameboard and how trollkastel will use it T9i destroy batobeato.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:45:28 2010 No.5687022
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>>5686812
>Kanon only used that as a metaphor to show Beatrice how he was able to hurt her. I'm near 100% sure that it has no actual relevance.
If ShKanon is true then it is relevant.
He is a 0 because he lacks a body, because he is just another personality that resides within Shannon.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:47:28 2010 No.5687028
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>>5687022
Master refers not to Kinzo, but to the master of the body. Shannon.
Kanon is basically saying "screw you both I'm gonna get the fuck out of here and score with jessica"

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:49:28 2010 No.5687035 >>5687028 >Kanon is basically saying "screw you both I'm gonna get the fuck out of here and score with jessica" The only good outcome of Shkanon

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:51:28 2010 No.5687044 >>5686807 >Only those with the "on" in their names are counted as actual furniture But isn't Genji the "robot" like the staple furniture? How can the best and most furniture like furniture not be actual furniture?

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:56:28 2010 No.5687061

>>5687044
Does Genji actually ever say in front of Battler that he's furniture? I don't remember him mentioning it much. He may have always told Shannon and Kanon that they're furniture, but that could be viewed as him strictly telling them not to do stupid things with their double personality. Kanon says he has mixed feelings about Genji, so he may have been harsh on them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 09:59:28 2010 No.5687081 >>5687061 He doesn't, but the tips of ep2 does

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:00:28 2010 No.5687089

>>5687061
In ep2, when Rosa demanded their master keys:
"......Rosa-sama. We are furniture who work for the Ushiromiya family. ......Whether we are trusted by you or not, that is not our concern. No matter what assessment you give us, we will only continue to serve until our final hour."

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:01:28 2010 No.5687095

>>5687081
But the tips say he's magical and all kinds of crap. Maybe the family generally misunderstands the "furniture" concept? Jessica talks about how servants not being able to love is stupid, she may equate furniture to humans but furniture may be a different concept, and that's that they are part of a person rather than real people. Like the stakes are a part of the person who summons them and imagines them. We need to find out the parts where it's really mentioned in the game.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:03:28 2010 No.5687102

>>5687089
Genji is pretty strange then. Are only one-winged eagle servants consider furniture? Maybe why he's "furniture" has something to do with his history? In the duel, being furniture represents some huge barrier that's more than just servant status, Ange stressed that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:12:28 2010 No.5687146 Are the other servants who had the "on" titles also called furniture at any point?

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:15:28 2010 No.5687159

Genji Ep1
"".........I am nothing more than furniture that serves the Master. Gold and assets are useless to me."

"...Probably. However, that has nothing to do with furniture like us. ......We must return the favor that we received from the Master...until our final moments."

".........I do not know. ...Only, I think everything is as the Master hoped, as he has arranged. ......To distrust that would exceed my role as furniture working for the Master."
"...Aren't you scared, Genji-san...? I am frightened something bad will occur again tonight..."
"............I have nothing to be afraid of. ...I simply work for the Ushiromiya family."

Granted that I don't think Battler was there when he said any of those lines, but I think we can be sure that he is.
I don't remember when, but I believe Natsuhi or someone explained (when battler was present) that only the Kinzo's servants with the one winged eagle reger to themselves as furniture.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:21:28 2010 No.5687184 >>5687159 Genji is fucking creepy.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:26:28 2010 No.5687203

>>5687095
Doesn't change the fact that he seems to be one right now. And I would agree if Shannon and Kanon were stated to be furnitues in the mystery part of the tips. but here, they are not.
So either every one of them are, either nobody is.
And everything leads to believe that he is also one.

So either Genji ALSO have a DID, and it would REALLY become a joke here, either there is a problem somewhere.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:28:28 2010 No.5687216

http://www.mysterylist.com/declog.htm

>Do not try to fool the reader with improbable impersonations, such as a woman posing as a man or vice versa and getting away with it by consummate acting ability, especially when they are deceiving people who know them well.

Where are my Grobius Shortling's rules?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:29:28 2010 No.5687222 >>5687216 Not in Japan, that's for sure

None !OSakaQCVow Sat Jul 17 10:32:28 2010 No.5687239
File: 48 KB, 320x240, 68786-hercule-poirot2.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5687216
>Do not use 'foreigners' or other aliens as major characters unless you have some real understanding of their culture and mind-set, and they have some relevance to the plot beyond exotic obfuscation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:38:28 2010 No.5687278 >>5687239 It's Knox's 5th.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:40:28 2010 No.5687296 >>5687278 Which is not applied in Umineko: See the Episode 5 TIPS.

>>	None !OSakaQCVow Sat Jul 17 10:44:28 2010 No.5687326 >>5687278 It's Hercule Poirot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:48:28 2010 No.5687357 OMG! GUYS! YOU NEVER SEE KINZO WITH GOHDA! GOHDA MUST BE KINZO'S OTHER PERSONALITY!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:49:28 2010 No.5687362 >>5687296 Where did I say otherwise?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:50:28 2010 No.5687366 >>5687357 Kinzo is another personnality of everyone on this island. Kinzo will never die.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:50:28 2010 No.5687368 >>5687239 Says the moustached Belgian.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:54:28 2010 No.5687391

>>5687203
He's probably not magic, despite the many Ronove references, but there is something suspicious about his background. Normal servants can't Vulcan Nerve Grip people to death.

He's probably a former bodyguard like Amakusa is.

>>5687357
The more I think about Gohda, the more he sticks out from the rest of the group. Why is he on the island in the first place? It's not to be a cook, considering the Ushiromiyas got on fine before and there are LESS people to feed now. Also, the whole 'Kinzo is dead' ruse; adding another person would just complicate that matter should he find out. Why run the risk?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:54:28 2010 No.5687392 File: 19 KB, 300x300, 1278855372972.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] He's such a sexy motherfucker.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:56:28 2010 No.5687406

Genji being furniture means he's an incomplete human. Like Kanon or Shannon, he's someone else's other half, most likely he is actually Kinzo's other personality who ended taking over his body, thats why the "Kinzo" personality is dead. Genji=Kinzo

What do you think, everyone

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:58:28 2010 No.5687413 >>5687391 >"Gohda was hired by Krauss and his wife, so he is more trusted than those servants who have served the family longer and who are suspected of being Kinzo's spies" He seems suspicious. Also, Kanon doesn't stand him.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:58:28 2010 No.5687422 >>5687406 <Good>

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:59:28 2010 No.5687427 >>5687392 But not as FABULOUS as Ronove

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 10:59:28 2010 No.5687428 >>5687406 I have thought about this as well, but I don't really like it. I don't want half the cast to be personalities of the other cast.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:03:28 2010 No.5687447 If there would be someone with DID it would be Goldsmith. ONLY.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:04:28 2010 No.5687452 >>5687427 Yeah, but Ronove has taken a back seat recently. I liked Umineko better when he was brofisting Battler and trolling Beato. Oh well. K1 being put into Umineko is fine too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:05:28 2010 No.5687461 One can't mistake Kinzo even under disguise because of the red, right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:05:28 2010 No.5687462 >>5687447 And not the person who keep going OH I DON'T HAVE A FULL SOUL and shit?

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:05:28 2010 No.5687463

>>5687413
The problem is that despite Krauss and Natsuhi being able to trust him, he can't actually do anything. He's never let in on the 'Weekend at Kinzo's' plan and the rest of the servants don't get on with him well enough to let him in on what's going on with them. There's Genji and at least 2 '~on' servants on the island at any one time, so he can't do much physically either.

The only thing I can think of is that he's the only other person than Battler who has no prior knowledge of Beatrice before coming to the island.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:06:28 2010 No.5687469 >>5687462 Probably.

>>	Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 11:07:28 2010 No.5687475 >>5686593 >"You were only killing everyone in my family over and over again because your crush on me didn't go anywhere? I'm so sorry! Forgive me! I love you!" I'm hoping it's something besides that. I really, really am.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:08:28 2010 No.5687482 >>5687461 Yes. But GOLDSMITH, was another person using his name so..

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:09:28 2010 No.5687495 >>5687406 Is kuwamasa just another person trapped in the hell that is shaknontrice? Or do she and genji mirror the shkanon switching around, crossdressing, nonsense?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:11:28 2010 No.5687503 An episode without sappy love scenes? I'm gonna love this

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:11:28 2010 No.5687504 >Yes. But GOLDSMITH, was another person using his name so.. Goldsmith (aka Kinzo when he killed everyone) wasn't real, they all lied and blamed Kinzo.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:11:28 2010 No.5687508 >>5687495 She's Virgilia, so it's likely she probably created that hell in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:12:28 2010 No.5687510 Why do people think this guy will play as an antagonist for Battler and Beatrice? He and the blonde are wrapped in golden aura in the SN cover. So far, all the characters wrapped in that aura have been good guys.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:12:28 2010 No.5687513 It's not even a mystery anymore if we are going into DID and shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:13:28 2010 No.5687522 >>5687513 Several murder mysteries use DID. Of course they are more often than no pretty shitty.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:13:28 2010 No.5687523 File: 89 KB, 1919x1087, umineko2402.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5687504 Well, I wouldn't put it past him.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:14:28 2010 No.5687531 >>5687362 Nowhere. Just saying.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:14:28 2010 No.5687532 >>5687513 Who said it was a mystery

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:15:28 2010 No.5687536 >>5687510 Unless trollkastel decides to throw down the gauntlet and kick some ass personally this episode, we lack an antagonistic foil to the battler + semi-recovered beato combo platter.

Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 11:15:28 2010 No.5687540

>>5687513
It's still a mystery, just not a very good one. Of course, there is the (Hopeful!) possibility that Shkanontrice isn't the culprit, which would make things much more interesting. Sadly, I'm getting less inclined to believe that more and more.

But there are tons of cool stuff left in the VN that can be solved. Take the two Battler mystery, the Blue Baby theory was one of the cooler ones I've seen.
And, if true, it makes for an awesome subplot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:15:28 2010 No.5687541 >>5687513 Well, R07 think that's a clever answer. Let him be. Seriously man, without love it cannot be seen. Just as some girls want to be witches, R07 wants to be a mystery novel author.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:17:28 2010 No.5687547 >>5687536 Bern will be the GM this game. She will be the antagonist. There's also Featherine, who, I'm sure, will find her way to meddle in an even more overt way. That's more than enough, if you ask me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:17:28 2010 No.5687549 As long as Bernkastel portrays the Ushiromiya family as they are (not like tragic heroes) and skips all this lovey dovey shit we had in EP6, I'm happy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:19:28 2010 No.5687558 >>5687540 The closed rooms too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:19:28 2010 No.5687560 >>5687522 Which ones? >>5687532 It's a romance >>5687540 Blue Baby theory? >>5687541 Ouch.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:19:28 2010 No.5687562

>He and the blonde are wrapped in golden aura in the SN cover. So far, all the characters wrapped in that aura have been good guys.
That's probably because they know a universal truth or something.
They might be able to blurt out a bunch of gold.
I bet it'sjust to show that they can argue even more intense.

>>	Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 11:20:28 2010 No.5687569 >>5687549 Well, Eva, Jessica, Battler, they actually ARE tragic heroes. Eva especially, my god. So, naturally, they will be the ones to get screwed with the most in episode 7.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:21:28 2010 No.5687577 >>5687569 You forgot George.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:22:28 2010 No.5687583 >>5687562 George, Jessica and the Servants knew no universal truths. They were just the good guys of EP6. I'm almost 100% sure these guys will be good guys as well.

Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 11:23:28 2010 No.5687585

>>5687577
Eh, I'll hold back on calling him a hero. His fantasy scenes push the I LOVE YOU SHANNON AND WOULD KILL EVERYONE, INCLUDING MYSELF FOR YOU angle a bit too much to be a hero.

Which would be (almost) fine if Shannon wasn't part of the mass murdering culprit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:23:28 2010 No.5687586 >>5687577 You forgot Maria.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:27:28 2010 No.5687612 >>5687585 >George is not a tragic hero >Jessica is a tragic heroine i do not like your way of thinking

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:28:28 2010 No.5687614
File: 83 KB, 356x435, Wizard hunter Wright.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

> 3. There must be no love interest. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar.
No love allowed!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:28:28 2010 No.5687616 >>5687585 George is fucking mad all the time in episode 6 too. Needs to take a chill pill. What happened to the calm, collected and mature leader of the cousins?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:29:28 2010 No.5687618 >>5687612 Jessica at least has common sense, as proved in EP6. Unlike George, who is a chauvinist 25 year old virgin.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:31:28 2010 No.5687634 >>5687614 I like your way of thinking

Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 11:31:28 2010 No.5687635

>>5687612
Well, are we defining tragic heroes as heroic characters who are utterly doomed?
If so, Eva, Jessica, and Battler suit the bill. They are shown to be people who truly don't want everyone to die, and yet, as we know, that doesn't do shit. Jessica and Battler bit it, but Eva was blamed for murders she did not commit and died a bitter old woman.

If we're defining tragic heroes as Byronic heroes, then sure, Rosa and George would fit the bill.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:32:28 2010 No.5687651 >>5687616 >>5687618 George was determined. He also knew shit wasn't true. Jessica was a coward, and thus her love wasn't rewarded.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:34:28 2010 No.5687670

>>5687635
Why is Eva heroic? She clearly has only her own interests in mind according to her battle with George. She just wants to raise him so he can be the head, a surrogate fulfilling the dream she always had. She's also rotten like all the siblings. She's not a mass-murderer, but she's not heroic either.

Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 11:35:28 2010 No.5687677

>>5687651
That's not it. The trap demons lauded Jessica as much as they did George. The thing was that Kanon had confessed his love to Jessica that day, and Jessica herself said the relationship needed time to grow. They would never be able to defeat George and Shannon, who had been into each other for years.

Besides, did you see the Jessica vs Kyrie scene? That wasn't demonic possession, all that was pure Jessica.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:36:28 2010 No.5687689 >George, Jessica and the Servants knew no universal truths Kanon knew that Moetrice was from a higher plane of existence.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:36:28 2010 No.5687692 >>5687677 People were hugely bullshitting about it being demonic possession before the translation. Those were the days.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:37:28 2010 No.5687697 Natsuhi also could be a tragic hero. Just look at what happened in EP5. Damn, even Erika could be one.

Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 11:38:28 2010 No.5687708

>>5687670
That is Eva according to George. But the Eva we saw in episode 3 was someone who didn't like when people were murdered, and also someone who had theories that were pretty on the mark.

Heck, her being right all the is pretty damn bitter. Even her opposition to George being involved with Shannon is something that is more or less correct in the end.

On the real Rokkenjima, she most likely solved the epitagh only to barely not save everyone. I see that as being a tragic heroine.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:38:28 2010 No.5687709

>>5687677
Even if Jessica's and Kanon's relationship is new, it's still fairly weak. Hell, when Kanon asked Jessica why she loved him, she had no idea at all. That's just mere attraction.

George, on the other hand, had his reasons for loving Shannon very clear. And thus, his determination was much higher than Jessica, who kept on complaining about the whole game, even if she did take part on it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:40:28 2010 No.5687728 >>5687692 Yeah when people still thought that there was no way ShKanontrice was true and that the guys who keep posting this theory were only trolls. It was almost better before the episode was translated, at least I still had some hope.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:41:28 2010 No.5687737

>>5687708
>Heck, her being right all the is pretty damn bitter. Even her opposition to George being involved with Shannon is something that is more or less correct in the end.
You've got me there. But her reason for it is that she's a mere servant. She just happens to be right. That doesn't justify it. She was just lucky that the servant happened to be criminally insane.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:41:28 2010 No.5687744 >>5687614 with love it cannot be seen

Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 11:42:28 2010 No.5687749

>>5687709
The issue here is that Jessica never said she loved Kanon. She admitted it was attraction, and was rather mature about the whole affair..It kinda went like this.

Kanon: Milady, I like you
Jessica: I like you too, let's date and see where this go-
Kanon: WHY DO YOU LOVE ME I THINK YOU SPARKLE LIKE THE SUN YOU'RE SO SPARKLY AND YOU SPARKLE SO MUCH

Jessica: Woah, I don't know yet, but I'd like to kno-

Kanon: THERE'S NO TIME WE MUST KILL PEOPLE IN A LOVE TRIAL RIGHT NOW!

It's only natural Jessica would complain at first, shit ain't logical. But after a helpful lecture from the trap demons and Kyrie, she manages to do her part in the trial just as well if not better than George.

Remember, Kanon loses the duel, not Jessica.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:43:28 2010 No.5687752 Eva in episode 1 says that the Beatrice who Maria met was most likely Shannon who dressed like that. She also was right about Kinzo and the fact that Natsuhi lied. Basically she has been right from the start.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:45:28 2010 No.5687768

>>5687749
Well let's not forget that the duel is just a fantasy scene version of the DID struggle. Kanon loses the duel not because of chance, but probably because his love with Jessica is weak compared to Shannon's with George. Although it's true that Kanon was the one holding them back all this time, what with rejecting her at the school festival.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:45:28 2010 No.5687770 Am I the only one who thinks Rudolph did love Asume after reading EP6? The whole thing about him being with Asumu in order to gain peace of mind makes me think she wasn't just Rudolph's fucktoy as Kyrie made her seem to be in the past.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:45:28 2010 No.5687771 tl;dr: Eva is the smartest person in Rokkenjima.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:46:28 2010 No.5687776 >>5687752 Well, with the minor exception of thinking Battler was the criminal in EP3 and shooting him and his blind cousin.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:46:28 2010 No.5687780 >>5687770 I think that too. Hope we know more about Asumu in EP7, though I doubt it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:47:28 2010 No.5687781 >>5687770 yeah, he loved her because she was moe~~~~~~~~~~

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:47:28 2010 No.5687783 >>5687583 In the portrait we usually have a GM. Bern is a GM. Those guys are in the portrait instead of Bern. Do the math.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:48:28 2010 No.5687796 >>5687752 >Eva in episode 1 says that the Beatrice who Maria met was most likely Shannon who dressed like that. I remember that from way back then. It didn't sound so likely when she first said it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:49:28 2010 No.5687806 >>5687783 Not all the portraits are GMs. GMs usually sit in a throne (Beatrice, Battler, hope someday we'll get Bern).

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:50:28 2010 No.5687811 >>5687771 I dunno. That prize still goes to Kyrie, who saw through the whole 'dead Kinzo' plan. The only reason she didn't solve the epitaph is probobly because the riddle seems tailored for the direct family members only.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:50:28 2010 No.5687814 >>5687770 If that blonde girl with the pants is Asumu, that would be very weird.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:51:28 2010 No.5687818 I'm laughing right right now. >>People who are mistaking determination and lack of common sense.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:51:28 2010 No.5687822

>>5687749
Dude, you remember Jessica was the one who approached him first, right? Also, the whole thing about "let's do this to see where it goes" was said by her after Kanon asked her what did she see on him. Either way, sudden or not, her determination wasn't really as close as George's, in my opinion.

Either way, she was meant to lose to George, who had actual reasons for loving Shannon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:52:28 2010 No.5687828 >>5687811 I thought it was Hideyoshi who saw through the Kinzo lie.

Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 11:52:28 2010 No.5687835
File: 259 KB, 768x432, like asumu.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5687776
Hey, Jessica isn't necessarily dead in episode 3. Battler is though lol. Not like it matters, because Eva's Rokkenjima =/= episode 3.
>>5687768
Regardless, I can't call Jessica a coward. Her fantasy scenes would argue with that, and in episode two she most likely got that stake in the back from trying to get "Kanon" to chill the fuck out. Thus sending the heartwarming message "You can be someone's best friend, or even their fiance, but only a childhood crush can stop them from killing you and your family for nonsensical reasons"
>>5687771
Poor Eva. Seriously, she solves the epitagh and is correct about pretty much everything, only to die hated and suspected by mostly everyone.
>>5687770
Well, Kyrie's interpretation of Asumu is not exactly the most charitable interpretation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:53:28 2010 No.5687840 >>5687806 Evatrice was formally a new golden witch and Erika became a GM at the end of 5, though temporary.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:53:28 2010 No.5687842 >>5687814 No, that blonde person wears the one-winged eagle, which only the family members are allowed to wear.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:53:28 2010 No.5687847 >>5687835 Eva's Rokkenjima = Episode 3 Featherine wrote that part as a story of what might have happened to Ange

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:54:28 2010 No.5687854 >>5687842 I find it weird how the person marrying in can't wear the crest, but the servants can.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:55:20 2010 No.5687869 >>5687842 They will say that is it Bern trolling ~

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:56:28 2010 No.5687872 >>5687854 That's what Kinzo wanted. It's that simple.

Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 11:56:28 2010 No.5687874

>>5687822
Yes, she approached him to say she liked him, not to confess her undying love for him. The idea that Jessica is madly in love with Kanon is a false one, and I do find it kinda irritating how you are continuing to blame Jessica for the loss.

By all the standards of a normal, healthy, relationship, Jessica's actions and explanations make total sense.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:56:28 2010 No.5687877 >>5687842 They will say that it is Bern trolling ~

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:57:28 2010 No.5687886 >>5687854 That's because they're furniture. What I find odd is that Virgilia wears it, but Kumasawa doesn't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:57:28 2010 No.5687896 >5687854 If Kinzo could, he'd probably make it so that only the servants had the crest, considering the contempt he had for his family. Well, except Natsuhi of course, who wears it on her heart. Shut up, let me enjoy my delusions! ;_;

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 11:58:28 2010 No.5687910 >>5687886 Virgilia is probably the young Kumasawa, who was allowed to wear the eagle but the lose this right for some reason. At least that's the only thing I can think about right now.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:03:28 2010 No.5687953

>>5687783
>In the portrait we usually have a GM. Bern is a GM. Those guys are in the portrait instead of Bern. Do the math.
Almost right.
What's in the portraits are the territory lords.
Such as in the case of Episode 5 with Lambda as GM but with Erika the territory lord in the portrait.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:04:28 2010 No.5687961 >>5687910 so you can only be beatrice if you are a servant?

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:06:28 2010 No.5687973

>>5687874
I'm not blaming Jessica alone for the loss. It was a team thing, remember? Both are to blame, Kanon denied his own feelings for too long, and rejected Jessica who knows how many times. Jessica, on the other hand, had no real reason to love Kanon. She probably liked him because he was cute, but that's as far as it goes. She barely even knew Kanon. So, I get the impression she simply wanted a boyfriend, and Kanon was the closest boy around.

Naturally, I'm not saying George is an awesome person. The things he said about Eva made him look like a total asshole. None of the rubbish he said made him look like a mature man.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:06:28 2010 No.5687974 >>5687961 only if you're furniture. the normal servants didn't wear the eagle, but all furniture ones did.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:06:28 2010 No.5687977 >>5687961 Well, Kinzo wasn't supposed tu be very sociable, IIRC. So I think he wasn't seeing a lot of non-servant people every day.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:09:28 2010 No.5687991 >>5687973 You don't have reasons to love anyone. Love is just love. God, what did I just say.

Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 12:11:28 2010 No.5688005

>>5687973
Here's the rub though. It's not that Kanon is the nearest boy around. Episode 6 addressed this. Jessica is not unattractive, and as one can see from episode 2, many people are into her. Episode 6 says that there were plenty of boyfriends she could have at her school, and yet she was into Kanon. She didn't know why she liked Kanon, but she wanted to. So, she liked Kanon, she sensed that Kanon liked her, why not start a relationship?
She's really not as shallow as you are making her out to be.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:14:28 2010 No.5688026

>>5687854
>I find it weird how the person marrying in can't wear the crest, but the servants can.
Kinzo's children are his children, there's no say in the matter.
Their souses however can't be trusted, no matter what the children does they will remain his children, their spouses can however quit being part of the family.
And furniture are furniture, Kinzo seemed to have 100% faith in his furniture for some reason.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:16:28 2010 No.5688041 >>5687614 needs some no_fun robot shopping

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:17:28 2010 No.5688046 >>5688005 So she is just a lesbian in denial, Kanon is most likely the only "guy" she was ever into but she probably realizes deep down that that's just a reverse trap.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:17:28 2010 No.5688049 >>5688026 because they are not human. Did you already feared the fact that one of your spoon could run away from your house one day?

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:18:28 2010 No.5688053

>>5687536
>we lack an antagonistic foil to the battler + semi-recovered beato combo platter.

If I didn't misunderstand, Trollkastel isn't Beato's game GM, she is the GM of a reconstruction of it, meaning it isn't the original board, so there's no Battler and Beato, because they are in their happily ever after.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:19:28 2010 No.5688062 >>5688053 Or so it seems actually. I would not be surprised otherwise. Even more if Bern's game is supposed to be screwed.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:20:28 2010 No.5688067

>>5688005
I'm not saying she's a shallow person, but were feelings were pretty much that. Seriously, unless she's into girlish, seemingly anti-social boys, then her feelings for Kanon are as shallow as they can be.

I'm not saying having those feelings are a bad thing. Mere attraction is something any person feels at least once, but that doesn't make those feelings any less shallow.

>>	Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 12:20:28 2010 No.5688068 File: 2.39 MB, 352x198, BA TA RA RA RA.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5688046 Now we're talking! Man, we better get some yuri doujins soon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:21:28 2010 No.5688071 I have a question regarding EP6. Did Beato and Battler actually married?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:22:28 2010 No.5688078 >>5688053 I don't think at this point in time the game will lack Battler ad Beato as the main characters. Not to mention Battler is yet to finish the whole thing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:22:28 2010 No.5688082 >>5688071 In the Meta-World, yes.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:22:28 2010 No.5688085

>>5687709
Yeah, as stated in rifyu.

The thing is that the person with initiative in the relationship is Jessica, who is a girl - there goes the fear of general violence in sex, which results in girls being cautios. In other words, George may as well be forceful whenever he feels like it, but Jessica can't quite rape Kanon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:23:28 2010 No.5688088 >>5688071 It's just meta-world stuff so the marriage and everything that happen there is only the delusion/creation of someone.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:27:28 2010 No.5688107 George, she's a table, not your desire.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:28:28 2010 No.5688119 Does Anonymous-kun have an mp3 folder of EP6's BGMs?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:28:28 2010 No.5688122 >>5687835 Battler is laughing out loud Amakusa would like to have a word with you.

>>	Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 12:31:28 2010 No.5688143 >>5688122 If we go by episode 3, Battler is dead. He saw Eva shoot his heart out. Ryukushi confirmed it in an interview. But as I said episode 3 =/= Eva's Rokkenjima.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:33:28 2010 No.5688167 >>5688143 That made me think. If EP3 =/= Eva's Rokkenjima, perhaps EP8 will explain what truly happened.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:34:28 2010 No.5688176

Jessica might have felt attracted to Kanon due to his hard work as a servant, helping others.

Most of the time the servant is more admirable than the master, the servant is the one who does things anyway, and they are supposed to do be happy helping out as well.
Jessica might not have been sure on the other hand though as Kanon doesn't seem to appreaciate his own work or himself, and thus she doesn't quite know why she likes him.
It might just be hope that actually does appreciate himself andhis work.

And yes, this might very well be nothing like what R07 had in mind, but it's a possibility and I doubt that Jessica's feelings would be shallow, if they were she would have hooked up with some guy from school and not the family furniture.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:34:28 2010 No.5688180 >>5688078 Pretty much this Also, The guy's name is Wizard-Hunting Wright, so I somehow get the feeling he isn't buying into the whole lolmagic explanation.

>>	Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 12:36:28 2010 No.5688195 >>5688176 Well, I view Shkanontrice as the family bicycle myself. Everyone's had a ride

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:36:28 2010 No.5688197 >>5686539 i never read higurashi, want kinf of "same shit" is that do this two characters ?

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:38:28 2010 No.5688204

>>5688180
The same could be said about Dlanor, but she's pretty much cool with magic, as long as it's not used for evil purposes.

Also, as it's been stated, he and the blonde are surrounded by that golden light and the characters that have been surrounded by that light in the game covers, so far, have been good guys.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:38:28 2010 No.5688211 >>5688176 There's also the little matter of him being the only boy in a 20 mile radius of her house.

>>	Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 12:39:28 2010 No.5688216 >>5688204 I'd be a bit slow to call these two chucklefucks good guys. This is the GRIMDARK episode after all. But you may be right.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:39:28 2010 No.5688220 >>5686541 Umineko never violated any of the Knox rules, to begin with. That's not the case with Van Dine's rules.

>>	Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 12:40:28 2010 No.5688225 >>5688211 >only boy SAY IN RED! YOU CAN'T, CAN YOU? THIS IS CHECKMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:40:28 2010 No.5688228 >>5688197 The Shmion twins: Two girls who change places, with humorous / murderous results.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:41:28 2010 No.5688230 >>5688220 And Bern will just throw away every useless love and fantasy scene.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:43:16 2010 No.5688241 [DELETED]

>>5686413
aS_ｐＲevＩOuｓLｙ mｅntＩoNeＤ,_TＨEＳＥＭeSｓｓａｇｅＳ wＩll cｏＮＴＩNuE_ＵnTiＬ_ｙｏＵ_pEｒｍAnEnＴｌY stop AｔtＡcＫｉｎg_ＡNd_FUCｋＩｎG_wｉtH_Ｗwｗ.ａNonDｅrpTＡｌｋ.ＳE (RｅMｏＶｅＴｈE ｄｅrＰ),_ＲeMOVe_AＬL_ＩＬｌEＧAL clOＮＥＳ oF Ｉt_ANｄＬIｅS ａｂｏUt_ＩＴ_aＮＤ_DOnaTＥ_ａT ＬEast_ａ_miＬLｉon usＤ_TＯｓYｓＯP_aｓ_CoｍpeｎSＡTｉＯＮｆoＲ thＥ_ｍａsSＩｖE DＡmＡＧＥＹOU_rｅtAＲＤS_ＨaＶｅ_ｃＡｕｓeｄ.
ndx nfyn qofroxn ak rjaxi vtbs iyb lib lzmcivs

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:43:28 2010 No.5688250

>>5688230
She may do it. But one game won't undo what's been done in the previous 6 episodes.

Also, the whole love theme remains there, it's been drilled throughout 6 episodes. If you want to solve the mystery, you need it, whether your like it or not.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:45:28 2010 No.5688264 >>5688250 And that's why I think that Bern will just fail lamentably. She will be useful for some points, like the epitaph or the parent's war, but she will fail to discover the core of the truth.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:46:28 2010 No.5688270 >>5686539 but if battler is the game master he should already know all the truth what cold truth is there to show him?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:47:28 2010 No.5688272 >>5688250 Bern will simply present Shannon as a batshit insane person. I still have a shred of hope, so I pray that she's not the mastermind.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:47:28 2010 No.5688276 >>5688204 You do recall which side of the equation miss DIE THE DEATH was on, right? He might be great to have tea with but when shit gets real, I'm guessing the Wizard Hunter is going to hunt him some wizards.

>>	Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 12:48:28 2010 No.5688279 >>5688272 See, if that happens, I'll be happy, because it'll mean that Battler did more in episode 5 than say "OH U LOVED ME? DAT MAKES UR MURDERPS OK DEN."

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:48:28 2010 No.5688281

>>5688264
Berns truth will be the truth universally accepted truth of the future made up by all the witch hunters and the people like them, quite possibly also what Ange belives happened but doesn't want to be true.
And Battler and Beato will struggle to portray the real truth of what happened.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:49:28 2010 No.5688284 >>5688270 Nothing, he probably meant Battler would be forced to watch how Bern rapes this game into oblivion.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:49:28 2010 No.5688285

>>5688250
Love in Umineko is like magic, it's just there to further the illusion.
But while "magic" mask how the murders happen, love is more about the motives, why everything happen.

And the motives aren't that important for a detective like Bern, that's why she won't need this love to solve Umineko.
Of course Battler will probably come to whiteknight Beatrice going LOOK AT HER MOTIVES SHE DID IT FOR LOVE POOR HER or something.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:49:28 2010 No.5688286 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality shanon is this

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:50:28 2010 No.5688290 >>5688281 Probably also the truth Featherine believes in.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:52:28 2010 No.5688303 >>5688276 Yes, but she was never on the cover with surrounded by the golden aura, which, I repeat, in EPs 5 and 6 have only surrounded the good guys. I'm not saying they'll definitely be good guys, but I think chances are high for that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:55:28 2010 No.5688333 File: 129 KB, 562x831, inception.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5686543 What do you think about the troll ending? I hope R07 can at least pull this it off like this.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 12:58:28 2010 No.5688349

I get the feeling that there is a connection between Wizard Hunter and Witch Hunt, and EP7 will involve the information that group discovered about the island after the deaths, which means it'll be heavily pro-magic biased.

Sure, it's a long shot saying he represents Otsuki, but if each magical piece is a representation of a real world piece, then we're running out of people anyway.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:00:28 2010 No.5688372 >>5688333 Too bad advanced technology has been denied. An Inception-like revelation would have been so bloody amazing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:04:28 2010 No.5688410 >>5688264 Except GM knows all truth by default.

Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 13:05:28 2010 No.5688413

>>5688285
I just can't think that Battler would switch to defend Beatrice if she were the killer but fear not! Her motives were love! She killed innocent people in cruel, violent ways that were over the top, love or not, that's just evil.

I mean, sheesh. That would mean Battler forgets that everyone being dead kinda sorta has innocent people(Eva, Ange) suffer miserably.

All for a dumb crush.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:08:28 2010 No.5688436 >>5688413 Maybe Beatoriche isn't the real mastermind.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:08:28 2010 No.5688439

>>5688410
Who knows? 34 knew the truth because Beato let her know it. Battler reached the truth on his own. Bern has always been able to used Red Text, meaning she knows some things, but it's been stated her knowledge is very limited.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bern denies a lot of fantasy with the Red, but in the end, the truth she shows is not correct at all.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:08:28 2010 No.5688440 >>5688413 it'a game board or kakera it doesn't matter she kil them 6 time on 5324461658165165161651065061501651065106506505606 over possibility

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:10:28 2010 No.5688452

>>5688410
Correct and thus Gold Truth can only be used by the GM.
This also explained the loophole for RED TEXT.

RED TEXT is perceived truth. RED TEXT is like a logic tester, as long as it is possible for you to create that scenario you can used it as RED.
Erika said 18people counting both Kanon and Shannon which is a true.
Beato said 17people counting only one of them which is also true.

But GOLD TRUTH can only be used if it is an absolute fact.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:10:28 2010 No.5688454 >>5688285 After the whole love thing being shoved on me for so long, I seriously doubt Bern will succeed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:10:28 2010 No.5688455 >>5688410 Except she isn't the GM of Beatrice's game, but of a copy of it, so no, she doesn't.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:10:28 2010 No.5688457

>>5688303
I'm sorry but who cares about "auras" since they could be used to illustrate a dozen different things. Ep 6 just covered no less than 5 characters and one ghost in one. You are just assuming that it means what you want it to mean.

On the other hand the guy's name, the need for a solid antagonistic piece to argue against Battler's twisted logic (Bern is going to be reading / GMing), and the guy's name all serve to support the fact that he will be an antagonist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:11:28 2010 No.5688462 >>5688410 No. Battler needed ep6 to PROVE that he had understood Beato's game. Also, Erika was the territory lord, => game master, in ep5.

Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 13:12:28 2010 No.5688465

>>5688454
It's sorta like a shonen manga.

Battler: BERN YOU CAN'T WIN U DON'T HAVE LOVE UR NOT TUFF

Bern: I HAVE NO LOVE, THAT IS WHAT MAKES ME TUFF

Battler: Take this!

Bern: NO WHY DID I LOSE?

Battler: U DON'T HAVE LOVE, HENCE, UR NOT TUFF.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:13:28 2010 No.5688473 >>5688452 Except that a simple trick being referred as a "perfect example of magic" isn't absolute truth. Gold text is simply the truth of Beatrice, that's why it's gold, she is the golden witch.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:13:28 2010 No.5688474 >>5688457 Rather than saying "the guy's name" a second time, I meant "the fact that his role seems to mirror Dlanor's as a knight's templar supporting a promystery piece"-

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:13:28 2010 No.5688487 Battler is a pretty strange name. what /jp/ers thinks on the signification ? isn't "the battler" one of the tarrot card ? maybe is existence is a meaming to a "battle" inside ushoromiya family

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:16:28 2010 No.5688505
File: 304 KB, 640x480, kinzo4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5688413
That's because Battler is Kinzo.
He would kill everyone for his love.
Remember how Beato mentions their resemblance.
Remember how shkannon calls him father in 6, and earlier they said they were created by Kinzo.
Maybe something else.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:16:28 2010 No.5688507 >>5688473 Golden truth is the thing Dlanor is talking about in ep5 ??? . period. It also explain why it allows magic to exist.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:16:28 2010 No.5688511

>>5688457
The thing is that the golden aura has been used for Beatrice's side, so far. Check Chiru's 1st opening. Also, it doesn't matter how many characters it has surrounded. All the character's it's surrounded have been the good guys, so far.

Again, I'm not claiming this is how things will turn out for sure, but that's the way it was twice, and I wouldn't be surprised if the same patter was repeated for a third time.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:17:28 2010 No.5688515 >>5688473 But it was magic. Magic = things that can only be done by human. It was clearly stated in ep6.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:17:28 2010 No.5688517 >>5688487 To me, it is because of Dante. Dante means the one who always get up again. To me, in english, this really look a lot like "Battler".

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:18:28 2010 No.5688518 >>5688452 Except it's actually an opposite. Beato said in gold about magic, which is bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:19:28 2010 No.5688528 >>5688505 But didn't the red text in EP4 reveal that Battler was indeed Kinzo's grandson? Which means Battler is his own grandpa.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:19:28 2010 No.5688529 >>5688518 Read >>5688515. The true nature of magic was stated and explained in ep6.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:20:28 2010 No.5688532 >>5688517 No, Dante (short form for Durante) simply means lasting. I know because that's my name.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:21:28 2010 No.5688538 >>5688515 It was clearly stated that magic = bullshit. I wonder how you read.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:21:28 2010 No.5688539 >>5688528 I think all was proved was that they were blood related.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:21:28 2010 No.5688543 >>5688532 Yes, and it is pretty much what I am saying. When someone is a Battler, what is he supposed to do?

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:22:13 2010 No.5688546 [DELETED]

>>5686413
AｓｐｒEｖｉＯＵＳｌy ＭＥntＩＯNＥD, ＴＨeｓｅｍｅsSＳaｇeS_wｉLl ＣｏｎｔＩnＵE uNｔｉl YｏU PＥrManEｎＴｌｙｓtoＰ_ＡｔTAｃKｉNg_AＮD_fuＣｋＩNＧｗItｈ_WＷw.aｎＯＮＤEＲｐTAｌK.sＥ (ｒEmOＶe_tＨe_DeＲｐ), RｅＭＯVｅ Aｌl Ｉｌｌｅｇaｌ_cＬonＥｓ oF_IＴａｎＤ_LＩｅｓＡboＵＴ_iＴａＮＤ DｏｎAｔE_AT_ＬeaST_A_ＭｉＬＬiｏn_Ｕsｄ_tO sYＳoｐ_As cOｍＰｅNSaｔＩON_fOr_TｈＥＭaＳｓｉVｅｄａｍaＧe ｙｏＵＲEtＡrdｓｈAVｅ caｕＳＥd.
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>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:22:28 2010 No.5688545 >>5688529 More like it was stated and explained in episode 4 but they had to do it again because R07 loves to repeat stuff.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:22:28 2010 No.5688547 >>5688532 Shouldn't you be at work today?

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:24:28 2010 No.5688565

>>5688538
Goddamit. I seriously questioned some of the retarded people here. Are people fucking dumb or some shit?

>You used magic to create a golden flower petal inside an overturned cup. It was a splendid bit of magic.
This line here mean that the sleight of hand is so great that it is like magic. It is like someone taking a bunny out of a hat. A splendid bit of "MAGIC".

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:24:28 2010 No.5688566

>>5688543
Yeah, but "the one who always get up again" and lasting do not necessarily mean the same thing.

For example, something like "lasting love" has nothing to getting up again.

I know what you mean, though. It's just technically not the same thing. I hope you understand what I mean.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:28:28 2010 No.5688591 >>5688565 If you say that >RED TEXT is perceived truth. >But GOLD TRUTH can only be used if it is an absolute fact. then how can it be "sometimes inferior"?

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:29:28 2010 No.5688597

>>5688462
>No. Battler needed ep6 to PROVE that he had understood Beato's game.
>Also, Erika was the territory lord, => game master, in ep5.
territory lord != GM
In that game Lambdadelta was the GM, Erika was the territory lord.

Anyway, Battler had reached the truth, or at least a truth.
That however doesn't have to mean he understood the reason behind Beato's games.

Trainer White !!vJ9K2tYJitD Sat Jul 17 13:29:28 2010 No.5688600

>>5688565
Yeah. Well, I think we can all agree that magic doesn't exist.

The thing that jars me is that of course no one has a problem with "magic' like slight of hand and such. What people DO have a problem with is the "magic" that Shkanontrice uses to brutally kill people.

The way Ryukushi writes, you almost think that he thinks people are foaming at the mouth in rage at Beatrice using slight of hand to cheer up Maria. We're not, we ARE however raging at Beatrice blasting off people's heads with shotguns and then being all holier than thou to Battler.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:30:28 2010 No.5688605 >>5688566 Yes, I understand, no problem It is just quite hard to explain without a direct comparison >>5688565 Let it go, most people are are " MAGIC = BULLSHIT" and don't care about the true meaning it have or the symbolism it have in umineko

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:30:28 2010 No.5688606 search in the tarot symbolism... 1 to 22 or 0 to 21

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:30:28 2010 No.5688611 >>5688591 And absolute truth is rock solid, whereas vaguer truths can be used to deceive.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:32:28 2010 No.5688622 >>5688591 Gold truths are absolute. You cant deceive people with it like what the red texts at the end ep6 show you. Reread ep6 again and look at how Battler used it and logic errored himself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:33:28 2010 No.5688625 >>5688597 >That however doesn't have to mean he understood the reason behind Beato's games. I think that's what reaching the truth meant.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:33:28 2010 No.5688630

>>5688591
>then how can it be "sometimes inferior"?
You can't "lie"/"make up stories" with gold.
You can also not retcon gold truth.

The weakness of the gold truth is how it's absolute on another level than the red truth.
You can't use it as freely and I guess you can trap yourself quite badly with it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:34:28 2010 No.5688632 >>5688622 Golden truth can be weaker than red truth. Ryukishi himself said it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:34:28 2010 No.5688636 >>5688611 That's not what Dlanor meant, I'm sure.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:36:28 2010 No.5688640 >>5688636 FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:36:28 2010 No.5688641 >>5688611 >>5688622 >>5688630 Can you prove it, smart guy?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:37:28 2010 No.5688644 >>5688641 Erika = 18people Beato =17people Both are true but they contradict each other.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:38:28 2010 No.5688650 >>5688630 >>5688632 If it's an absolute truth, then it can be very limited in scope and you can't use it to mislead and conceal.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:38:28 2010 No.5688652 How do people know who the new man is anyway?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:39:28 2010 No.5688655 >>5688652 Only Van Dine can be so fabolous and handsome.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:39:28 2010 No.5688657 >>5688644 Erika 18th human. There are 17 people.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:40:28 2010 No.5688660 >>5688657 don't work this way.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:41:28 2010 No.5688667

>>5688625
I don't know I may be wrong after all, but

just as you can understand a something, lets say Einstein's research of photoelectric effect, it doesn't neccesarily mean you understand everything about what he himself thought about it.
You might know the theory behind photoelectric effect, and you might know what you can do with it, but do you know what he thought about it and what he aspired to be done with it?
Perhaps not but by going through the same yourney as him perhaps you will find out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:41:28 2010 No.5688668 >>5688652 R07 mentioned him in an interview. Also there was plenty of foreshowing regarding him.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:42:28 2010 No.5688673 >>5688652 We don't . Just guessing based on some circumstancual evidence . I.e the golden eyes and same hammer sign as dlanor.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:42:28 2010 No.5688679 >>5688565 How the fuck it contradicts the statement that 'magic = bullshit'? It depends on how you define 'bullshit', idiot. In this case clearly bullshit = not real thing, but a trick. You needn't say this and fell yourself very smart.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:44:28 2010 No.5688691 >>5688660 That can actually work. Erika could easily have arrived as the 18th human, but dead. Thus, only 17 people in Rokkenjima.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:46:28 2010 No.5688703 >>5688679 Because you clearly need to learn to read. [gold]It was a splendid bit of magic.[/gold] right here is clearly talking how great of the magic trick is. I am not sure why you are still trying to argue? Gold truth is the absolute truth.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:48:28 2010 No.5688712

>>5688591
Magic isn't being used to commit murders, it's being used to cover up the real methods and perpetrators.

Not knowing how a magic trick is performed can be a thing that entertains people and keeps them guessing. Not knowing who the murderers are and what they did is a grave injustice.

Just look at EP4's Witch Hunt. They're a group who are interested in the magic side of the murders, because for them it's entertaining as no one important to them was murdered, plus everyone assumes Eva is the culprit anyway.

Love is kinda the halfway house between truth and lie. Is love something romantic and spiritual or is it just a bunch of chemical reactions in the brain in response to certain psychological stimuli or events? Can both sides co-exist, and is that what R07 means by 'without love (the ability to consolidate truth and lie into one form) it (the full picture) can not be seen?'

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:48:28 2010 No.5688713 >>5688703 Gold truth being absolute truth doesn't make sense. You already have the red text for this, it doesn't make sense to introduce a colored text that basically do the same thing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:49:28 2010 No.5688720 >>5688691 The problem is that the kanji are not the same, yes, but they have exactly the same meaning.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:49:28 2010 No.5688722 >>5688703 I think with "bullshit" he means that magic is not miracles as it was claimed to be, but just merely a trick, fuelled by people who wanted to believe on it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:49:28 2010 No.5688724 >>5688713 They are not the same. Fuck it just "read" the whole thread. Goddammit, no wonder R07 is pissed when most of his readers are like you. I finally understood why R07 keep hammering his points in.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:52:28 2010 No.5688743

>>5688724
Stop insulting people like this.
You are the one not looking at thing clearly.
"it's a perfect example of magic" to describe the trick CAN'T BE AN ABSOLUTE STATEMENT, it's simple.

Why? Because you have an opinion and because you have a definition of "magic" that isn't absolute.
Red text that only care about fact is far more absolute.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:52:28 2010 No.5688744

>>5688713
Gold = Just the facts
Red = A colored interpretation of the facts

Gold is basically just R07 saying "Hey, you know all those things in red in previous chapters, perhaps there's a clue in how they were worded there".

Gold = Kinzo is dead
Red = Kinzo can no longer play the piano.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:52:28 2010 No.5688745 >>5688703 Are you idiot or what? Because I don't see any logic here. >magic is a trick, great or not - ok, good >right here is clearly talking how great (one particular trick) of the magic trick is >THEREFORE GOLD IS AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH DERP

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:54:28 2010 No.5688760 >>5688720 Sorry, but I trust WH more than you. # I am the visitor, the 18th human on Rokkenjima!! # There are 17 people.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:55:28 2010 No.5688761 >>5688744 In EP4, it was said in Red "Kinzo is dead". That cannot be any more factly.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:56:28 2010 No.5688773 >>5688760 I don't care about this, I know this red truth perfectly, the two of them say "human, people".The kanjis are only differents because it was needed for the 18TH.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:57:28 2010 No.5688780 >>5688760 我こそは来訪者ッ、六軒島の１８人目の人間ッ！！！ …………申し訳ないが、そなたを迎えても、１７人だ。１８人目 vs １７人人 = human/person 人目 = used as a counter, literally means public view/eye.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:57:28 2010 No.5688783 >>5688745 But it was the truth. Can you say that the magic trick is at an amateur level or not splendid?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:58:28 2010 No.5688787 >>5688783 Not in an "absolute" way. Like you can't say in an absolute way UMINEKO IS SHIT or UMINEKO IS AWESOME.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 13:59:28 2010 No.5688794

Hasn't Gold Text been more ambiguous than Red Text?

"I guarantee that this corpse is Ushiromiya Kinzo's corpse...!!"
"You used magic to create a golden flower petal inside an overturned cup. It was a splendid bit of magic."

This is far more ambiguous than mos of the Red that has been shown, if you ask me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:00:28 2010 No.5688802 >>5688761 You could say when he died and what he died from. This is the whole reason why the end of EP3 is suspicious and why some people think that the person who killed Nanjo died of their wounds in a previous battle right afterwards.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:01:28 2010 No.5688806 >>5688773 You obviously don't. １８人目の人間 18th - １８人目 human - 人間１７人だ 17 people

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:01:28 2010 No.5688807 >>5688794 Gold text = rules upon which the world of Umineko was build on. That's why it's gold.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:02:28 2010 No.5688819 >>5688780 Stop with this public notice bullshit. It is needed for the TH, nothing else. １８人目 = 18th. Literraly.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:03:28 2010 No.5688827 >>5688794 It's only really ambiguous in terms of when it's applied, rather to what. After all, if red text could work just as well at that point, then why use gold. What is the benefit to the speaker?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:03:28 2010 No.5688828 >>5688783 It was truth, therefore it's an absolute truth? Maybe you can read, but can't use logic.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:04:28 2010 No.5688832 >>5688828 But it is an absolute truth. You cant prove that the magic trick is not splendid.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:05:28 2010 No.5688837 >>5688802 Dude: Kinzo is already dead at the starting time for all games! That's Red text. That cannot be any more factual.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:05:28 2010 No.5688843
File: 177 KB, 420x600, 1268092768120.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

The problem is the motivation for DID meido. 6 years ago, Battler did (or DIDN'T) do SOMETHING, and as a result, the people on the island die 6 years later, when he shows up again.

What I think it is, is that SERIOUSLY THIS IS MY BEST GUESS, THIS MIGHT REALLY SPOIL THE STORYhe proposed marriage to Shannon (or ShKannon, if she already had the split personality), saying that she'd finally have the Ushiromiya name, or something like that. By abandoning the island, and the Ushiromiya name, he was basically saying FUCK YOU to the proposal that he didn't remember. 6 years of FUCK YOU echoing in your head tends to make you a bitter person.

Again, though, without sexual abuse, I can't figure out why Yoshiya/Kanon would come to be, and R07 usually prefers his stories to be devoid of torrid things like that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:05:28 2010 No.5688847 I'll laugh if finally ep7 reveal that the golden truth is completely something else.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:07:28 2010 No.5688856 >>5688827 That's the point, once you realise what the Golden Truth is, you've realised something about this game, or so R07 says.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:07:28 2010 No.5688860 >>5688832 Ok, now it's just retarded trolling, you should have done so from the start.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:09:28 2010 No.5688875

>>5688713
>>5688783
>>5688828
>>5688832
Gold text is either stronger or weaker depending on the scenario. The if it's not absolute, then it's not "exactly" the truth.

What it really is is a guarantee by someone who knows the truth/ending of a story that "This is what really happens. No lie."

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:09:28 2010 No.5688876 >>5688843 Well, Rena was almost raped. I wouldn't be surprised if R07 just went one step further this time.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:09:28 2010 No.5688880

"I will lower that by one for Kinzo!! /red "
"No more than 17 humans exist on this island!! /red "
"That excludes any 18th person. /red "
"In short, this 18th person X does not exist!! /red "

Erika on the other hand had proof in the form of herself, she was the 18th person on Rokkenjima, and thus she declared that she was the 18th human.
This is true because if we count all characters they turn out to be 18 with Erika.

Beato and Battler however said that there are 17 people.
This is also true and doesn't contradict Erika.
If you count everyone but those who lacks their won bodies then it turns out to be 17 with Erika.
In that sense they are both right, and both could say it in red.

Erika even if she was capable of using Gold, wouldn't have been able to say that she was the 18th human in gold, because in actuality 1 person lacks a body in isn't real, which would make her the 17th.

For them to use the red truth in this way they need to count the number of people to confirm the number.
In this case both of them were right depending onhow you count.
With gold however you don't even need to count as long as it's true, but you can't however not say anything other than what is true in the truest sense, it can't be argued against but it can also not be taken back in anyway.

For the human side the gold is practically better in all possible ways, for the witches side however it has it's downsides and too much gold can narrow down your available space to move in.

Right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:09:28 2010 No.5688881 >>5688843 >R07 usually prefers his stories to be devoid of torrid things like that Well, in his new "Higanbana no Saku Yoru ni" the girl gets raped on a regular basis...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:10:28 2010 No.5688888 >>5688881 ... BE RIGHT BACK, CONFIRMING FOR SCIENTIFIC PURPOSES

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:11:28 2010 No.5688890 >>5688875 THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TOLD ABOUT RED TEXT!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:11:28 2010 No.5688895 >>5688880 Well, she is an 18th HUMAN. There's no denying that a drowned HUMAN corpse is still a human, and by washing up on the shore, she IS on the island.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:13:28 2010 No.5688912 >>5688890 No. Red text can fuck around and be used to trick people, by hiding little provisos or loopholes in its words. Gold is a promise used to end those unending debates that pop up sometimes.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:15:28 2010 No.5688925

Red text can be argued against. This is how Battler got stucked with a logic error.

Think of Umineko as a closed box.
Red text can be played and changed around as long as it satisfied the final version of the result.
Gold text are like the truth, where you cant changed anything with it. They are static and cant be played around with.

Remember how game5 ended when Battler used the gold text. You cant argue against gold text.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:15:28 2010 No.5688932 >>5688912 Dude, remember the whole deal about trust we were told about right at the moment we were introduce to Red Text. Also, I don't remember any of your claims about Gold Text ever being addressed in the games.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:16:28 2010 No.5688940 File: 196 KB, 670x480, bea_akuwaraia5.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>>/rs/nobody_knows_what_gold_truth_really_is

R07 Sat Jul 17 14:21:28 2010 No.5688986

Gold Text:
If you know the "answer", you should be able to understand what gold text is, what conditions it can be used in, and whether it's stronger than red text or not.

If someone knows the answer of the game, they can use the gold even if they aren't the Game Master.

Erika does not know the truth, but Lambdadelta can probably still use the gold.

Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:23:28 2010 No.5688998

>>5688837
You can say when he died. Saying that he was dead at the staring time could mean that he died at any time from the day before to several years before. That's how Krauss and Natsuhi's "Pretend Kinzo is still alive" plan came into play, which offered new motivations for certain members of the cast.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 17 14:30:28 2010 No.5689054 >>5688998 And the Gold Text never said when he died either! All it did was to confirm the existence of Kinzo's corpse.

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