Umineko EP7

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Umineko EP7 Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:18:37 2010 No.5565031 [Reply] [Original]

New thread.

HQ opening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzoL_rK2kwM
Pre-order announcement: http://pastie.org/1031146

Previous thread:
>>5560330

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:18:37 2010 No.5565033 what the-

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:20:37 2010 No.5565043 This girl isn't the Beatrice Rosa 'saw'. It's the Beatrice Rosa pretended to be.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:20:37 2010 No.5565047 >>5565018 Hanyuu just rewrote the story so she was able to come. Or it's actually one of the previous years.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:21:37 2010 No.5565051 >>5565031 Fucking lol'd at how Zepar and Furfur have gigantic boobs... but the person in red is still the same.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:21:37 2010 No.5565055 RICHTER BELMONT AND KANONICA STAR IN WHEN THEY CRY EPISODE 7: SHIT GETS REAL FOR THE LAST TIME

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:21:37 2010 No.5565057 >>5565047 Could be a previous year. Then it doesn't matter how many people are on the island.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:23:37 2010 No.5565063 File: 132 KB, 510x680, 1278278927563.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] When they cry 5

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:24:37 2010 No.5565070 File: 854 KB, 744x900, sayo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I get to kill Ange too? It's like Christmas has come early! Oh, I got it, I'll stuff her corpse with coal!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:27:37 2010 No.5565087 >>5565070 >>>/rs/Beato never committed murder for the sake of pleasure.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:27:37 2010 No.5565088 Will the EP6 patch be released before EP7?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:28:37 2010 No.5565091 >>5565088 >It should be fast this time, but since we have several editors, it's impossible to be more precise. It's very possible we'll be seeing a release about a week from now, but no guarantees.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:28:37 2010 No.5565092 >>5565063 >David Ackroyd Oh you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:29:37 2010 No.5565100 >>5565087 >>>/rs/Well she still stuffed peoples bodies with candy. And then mocked Jessica about it. and then killed Jessica. And then killed her fiance.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:30:37 2010 No.5565103 >>5565087 Oh, is that so? >>5564916 Sorry, but "red truth" is starting to seem pretty shaky and unreliable at this point. But she's probably gonna die for good this EP, so who cares?

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:30:37 2010 No.5565106

Blondie = the Beato who existed before the rules and did not devote herself to Battler. Comes to the island in episode 2 and some other episodes but probably doesn't even kill anyone. Kinzo was her sugar daddy. Maybe her granddaddy too. Shkanontrice kills her out of jealousy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:30:37 2010 No.5565107 >>5565100 >implying she did You don't get it, do you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:30:37 2010 No.5565108 >>5565087 She still committed murders, broski. And hell, I don't know about you, but the way she kills people is quite gruesome.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:31:37 2010 No.5565109 >>5565100 Detective never saw the letter Jessica supposedly found.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:31:37 2010 No.5565114 >>5565106 I like this more than all the servants, Kyrie and Rosa just lying about Beatrice showing up.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:34:37 2010 No.5565128
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>>5565109
Then how about this? Jessica made up the letter.

Jessica's body in episode 2 and 4 is actually new girl's body dressed up to look like her. That explains her "hey battler I'm already dead and when you find my body I'll have a big hole in my head" shit. Jessica is the culprit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:34:37 2010 No.5565130 >>5565109 What motive would Jessica have to lie? for that matter, what motive would Jessica have to be the culprit? She's the biggest moralfag on the island, bar none.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:35:37 2010 No.5565142 No, the red truth is ok. When it comes from Beato. the two other bitches ( altough I love 34) never guarantee that they will say the truth in red.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:35:37 2010 No.5565144 I can't believe it's over. This is it, guys, no more Umineko. All we have to look forward to are the doujin games and spinoff stories. It's done, there's nothing left. Goddammit ;_;

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:35:37 2010 No.5565145 >>5565128 >That explains her "hey battler I'm already dead and when you find my body I'll have a big hole in my head" shit. She always had a big hole in her head.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:35:37 2010 No.5565148

>>5565130
She gets majorly pissed when anyone other than daddy in the family head. See episode 5. In episode 2, someone equal to the head appears, Beatrice. In episode 4, everyone acknowledges 'Kinzo'. Kinzo is actually the title of the family head and the blonde girl had that title.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:36:37 2010 No.5565150 >>5565144 Still have one episode left before it's over. or more.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:36:37 2010 No.5565151 So far all of the portraits had a witch or a sorcerer... and now the new one has a witch-hunter in it. A sign of things to come?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:36:37 2010 No.5565152 >>5565144 >implying there won't be When They Cry 5

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:36:37 2010 No.5565159 >>5565142 Not this shit again.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:36:37 2010 No.5565163 >>5565150 A "wrap party" episode, maybe. The theorizing's all over, though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:37:37 2010 No.5565171 >>5565145 Ba dum tish! But seriously that's not very nice.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:37:37 2010 No.5565176 Why do people still not see episode 7 is the final episode?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:37:37 2010 No.5565182 >SSVD >20 Wedges >S. S. Van Dine >20 rules This episode will crush many theories wont it ?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:38:37 2010 No.5565183 >>5565176 We don't want it to be!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:38:37 2010 No.5565185 >>5565182 It will crush all theories except for the truth. It's the answer episode.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:38:37 2010 No.5565187 >>5565176 Probably because the cover is shit and Ryukishi is being vague in interviews, as usual.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:38:37 2010 No.5565189 so when can we expect patch for 6?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:38:37 2010 No.5565190 >>5565159 Sory, I think that it is better that " every red truth are unreliable lol".

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:39:37 2010 No.5565191 >>5565176 It cannot be the last because there were four question arcs and therefore there simply must be four answer arcs too. Anything else doesn't fit in my OCD.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:39:37 2010 No.5565192 >>5565189 Late in this week.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:39:37 2010 No.5565197 >>5565182 >3. There must be no love interest. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar. Wait? There is no love? ;__;

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:39:37 2010 No.5565198 >>5565148 Refer to Episode 6 for the counter-statement

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:39:37 2010 No.5565200 >>5565163 Theorizing all over? Where?

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:39:37 2010 No.5565201

>>5565128
>new girl's body dressed up to look like her.

Would have been better if someone smashed her entire face like those in the shed for Episode 1. It's not like Shannon's case where her body was obscured and the detective didn't investigate. When Beatrice tells Battler to go to the chapel, he finds a bundle of master keys, and with those he's allowed to thoroughly check 'almost' all the rooms for the main mansion and guest house.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:40:37 2010 No.5565204 >>5565130 >She's the biggest moralfag on the island, bar none. That in itself makes her suspicious.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:40:37 2010 No.5565210

>>5565190
It's a "mystical element" or "supernatural method" or whatever the fuck you want to call it.
I've never seen any detective novel that uses bullshit like that as evidence towards anything.

So what, we're supposed to try to deny magic, while trusting everything the witch says is true, because she says it's true?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:41:37 2010 No.5565212 >>5565176 Shitty jewel cover, instead of colorful epic dvd box, like in the end of question arcs. >>5564129

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:41:37 2010 No.5565213 >>5565190 I think "all red truth is reliable" is better. I'm sick of anyone implying any red is false. Twisted, maybe, but not false. The red text, no matter who says it, is the bond of trust between R07 and reader.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:41:37 2010 No.5565215 >>She's the biggest moralfag on the island, bar none. Read episode 1. Jessica talks like she sees Kinzo often.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:41:37 2010 No.5565216 >>5565210 I agree with you. But knox was already killing the red. And as a consequence we got KNOX in red.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:42:37 2010 No.5565223 >>5565210 The goal has been finding the truth for a while now, not denying magic. It's like you're stuck back in episode 2. So yes, we're supposed to trust what the red says so we reach the truth.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:43:37 2010 No.5565225 File: 3 KB, 180x166, 1278272545788.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5565213 >R07 >trust Well, yeah, about that...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:43:37 2010 No.5565231 >>5565225 ell, yeah, about that... you should read ep6.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:44:37 2010 No.5565232 >>5565212 Stop getting my hopes up.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:44:37 2010 No.5565234

>>5565225
If you don't trust R07, you're not going to be able to solve it either way. Lacking trust in him equals thinking you can't solve it. If you can't trust the red, you probably can't trust any single scene. You can come up with whatever bullshit you like.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:45:37 2010 No.5565238 >>5565210 The Hollow Man (aka The Three Coffins). Author says in the beginning which testimonies we can surely believe.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:45:37 2010 No.5565241

>>5565223
If the truth is "lol witches did it", or "oh hey guess what, the fantasy scenes were real", then I don't want the fucking truth.

Besides, if Dine's rules really do get forced into this EP, I for one will love it. It would be interesting watching Battler trying to solve it when
>8. The problem of the crime must he solved by strictly naturalistic means. Such methods for learning the truth as slate-writing, ouija-boards, mind-reading, spiritualistic se'ances, crystal-gazing, and the like, are taboo. A reader has a chance when matching his wits with a rationalistic detective, but if he must compete with the world of spirits and go chasing about the fourth dimension of metaphysics, he is defeated ab initio.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:45:37 2010 No.5565243 >>5565212 DVD box is saved for omake episode. Don't expect to be able to theorize after 7 though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:46:37 2010 No.5565247 >>5565241 You really don't get Umineko at all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:47:37 2010 No.5565253 >>5565234 I wouldn't call it "real" trust when I have to take with a grain of salt everything he says, both in novels and interviews.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:47:37 2010 No.5565255

>>5565213
It is not. Beato's red truth is. Ryukishi would not be a liar if Lambda or bern lied in red. It's the reader who is too dumb to remember that only beato made a promise about that.

Anyway, I am not for "red = true" or "red = false", I'm between the two of them, better than taking a position and refusing everything else.
But talking about trust here, about every red, when almost nobody remember that beato said "When I WILL speak the truth", it is a bit too much. If Ryukishi wanted to kill Bern's and 34's red, he could without any problem or treason..

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:47:37 2010 No.5565258 >>5565253 That's because he didn't say it in red.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:47:37 2010 No.5565259 >>5565241 Isn't there something similar in the Knox rules? R07 simply rewrote them to fit his needs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:47:37 2010 No.5565260 blond "girl" = Jessica-Beatrice (she finds the gold) cool pirate biker guy = Wizard Hunting Wright, Jessica-Beatrice's new furniture (or someone she summons anyway)

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:48:37 2010 No.5565261

I've always thought that the implication that I have to choose between "fantasy" and "mystery" is complete horseshit, especially when Ryu tries to bend it into meaning that if I don't accept fairy tale horseshit, I have to accept Sherlock Holmes horseshit instead. There are no Knox rules in real life.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:50:37 2010 No.5565274

>>5565255
No, it's the reader who's too jaded and says "welp, we were never told their red was true, let's just throw out ninth tenths of the red".

The jaded reader, who's too arrogant and thinks they're so smart and will throw out valuable tools that point them towards the truth for the sake of it. If you really think any of the red is false, you're sorely mistaken. It's really staggering how you can lack such a basic understanding of the principals of Umineko. You should just stop reading. I hope episode 7 can show you I was right, but you'll probably just say "well, how was I supposed to know that? It was stupid to assume all red was true."

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:50:37 2010 No.5565275 >>5565259 You're right. In E5, Battler realized that no elements should show up to make this mystery unsolvable. So that Dine rule is a little redundant.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:50:37 2010 No.5565278 >>5565261 >I have to accept Sherlock Holmes horseshit instead Yes, saying that hidden passages can't possibly exist because some sort of divine rule is just as fantastic as fantasy itself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:51:37 2010 No.5565285 When will this Umineko shit just die?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:51:37 2010 No.5565286 >>5565260 Wizard-hunting summoned by Beatrice mindrape

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:52:37 2010 No.5565288

>>5565261
Fuck, have you people even read a single episode beyond 2? Really? We know the fantasy is false, that's nailed into us in episodes 5 and 6. Like Battler said, the existence of Beato's game in the first place was her admitting that she wasn't a witch. The whole "I'm a witch cacklecacklecackle accept magic" thing was just a farce to get Battler to search for the truth, which has absolutely nothing to do with magic. Beato can't ever say what she wants.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:52:37 2010 No.5565291

>>5565247
I just don't want another Higurashi end, that's all.
And if the Van Dine rules are forced into this in the same way the Knox rules were, it's going to cut out a lot of theories, unless Ryukishi rewrites them to fit his needs yet again. Plus it pretty much renders all the evidence from the red text worthless.

Also,
>>5565261
This. We're pretty much forced to go along with everything Ryukishi tells us, either way.
But believing something is true just because the person who said it says it's true is pretty stupid, if you ask me.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:53:37 2010 No.5565296

>>5565274
>I hope episode 7 can show you I was right, but you'll probably just say "well, how was I supposed to know that? It was stupid to assume all red was true."
I don't know why people feel the need to attach themselves to one particular theory and disregard everything else until they are proven wrong.
Has everyone forgotten what Battler said in ep 04?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:53:37 2010 No.5565299 >>5565261 Anti-Mystery vs. Anti-Fantasy was always a trap to constrain your thinking. If you take either side, you're throwing out one of the lenses needed to reach the truth of the story.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:54:10 2010 No.5565303 [DELETED]

>>5565261
>There are no Knox rules in real life.
Yeah, but from what he states in the interviews he really wants the reader to solve his puzzle, thus stating that in a sense he tries to abide by these rules, although frankly said he fails at the "strictly naturalistic" point heavily in a sense.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:54:37 2010 No.5565306

>>5565296
What you're doing right now isn't theorizing. You're questioning the very rules of the game so you can't even get to playing it at all. We accept the red truth, no matter who says it, blindly. That's the trust between author and reader. Umineko is hard enough to solve when you have all the red, but when you scrape it down to fucking nothing, good luck.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:55:37 2010 No.5565309

>>5565261
>There are no Knox rules in real life.
Yeah, but from what he states in the interviews he really wants the reader to solve his puzzle, thus stating that in a sense he tries to abide by these rules, although frankly said he fails at the "strictly naturalistic" point heavily to some extent.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:55:37 2010 No.5565310

>>5565291
>But believing something is true just because the person who said it says it's true is pretty stupid, if you ask me.
When someone teaches you the rules of chess, do you move your pawns four spaces at a time because there's no proof that he was telling the truth?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:56:37 2010 No.5565314 I still think that any red not spoken by Beato is just pure trolling. I just hope im wrong.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:56:37 2010 No.5565321

>>5565261
>>5565278
Right. Who the fuck needs Knox's rules anyway? That guy in the portrait was actually the culprit all along. He used the sentient flying robots, disguised as gulls, to carry mysterious mind-controlling virus, that made the people kill each other, so he can get the gold.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:57:37 2010 No.5565331

>>5565274
>>
The jaded reader, who's too arrogant and thinks they're so smart and will throw out valuable tools that point them towards the truth for the sake of it. If you really think any of the red is false, you're sorely mistaken

Stopped reading here.

Go read my post again, Mr clever.
And your "valuable tool" is the best way to get tricked. To me, the best thing to do is to take the red as the absolute truth, which is pretty normal, but ALSO, aside, not to take the red as an absolute truth, but only looking at where it try to lead you, and see if there is a meaning here other that "LOL ITS U U KILLED EVERYONE".

But yeah, I absolutely think that the red is ONLY false. As you want.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:58:37 2010 No.5565337 >>5565278 entire point of the ??? party of ep5

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:59:37 2010 No.5565339 Oh boy, I sure can't wait for the Battler vs Wright duel where they're constantly pointing fingers at each other.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 10:59:37 2010 No.5565342 The rules exist because it's a fiction. What is so hard to understand with the fiction theory?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:00:37 2010 No.5565345 >>5565342 the fact that ryukishi is a professional troll?

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:00:37 2010 No.5565346

Didn't Ryu gon through taht by the anti mystery vs anti fantasy TIPs?

We could say that the 'red truth' Beatrice-sama uses is an antithesis against that.
The things she said with the 'red truth' are just as the words of a god.
Without any kind of evidence or proof, it becomes the truth.
If she said, with the red truth, that 'the door can only be unlocked with the master key', it'd become completely unnecessary to make suppositions besides that.
It'd be unnecessary to make suppositions of pulling it from inside with lock pickings or fishing lines.
if she had continued to add saying in red that 'the number of master keys is 5 and it is only possible to unlock it with them.
And that duplications are impossible', it would become even more perfect.

But, let's be bold and leave the best to the end.
It is impoosible to prove whether the 'red truth', that calls itself as the truth, is really the real truth, even for the Milady.
I guess there are people among you all who are still in doubt whether Milady's 'red truth' can really be trusted.

That's right.
In this world, a truth that you can prove to be the truth doesn't exist.
So, if you ask whether you can believe that truth or not, it will probably end up becoming a question like this.

'Can you believe her?"

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:01:37 2010 No.5565351

>>5565310
No, but when a man tries to tell me "oh I killed that guy, don't worry, it wasn't a body double or anything. I swear. Oh, and I can guarantee the identities of all those corpses. How? Magic, that's fucking how", then it's a guy I'm not inclined to believe any time soon.

But I'm not saying all red is false. The red should be about as reliable as any other color of text. Why should I trust a sentence written in red any more than I should trust a sentence written in purple, or yellow, or green for that matter?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:02:37 2010 No.5565355 >>5565345 He isn't, everything is pretty straightforward. You guys are the ones who are over-complicating everything yourself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:02:37 2010 No.5565356 >>5565337 I know, but the tea party also implied that Ryukishi could end up betraying our expectations. I don't think he would be such an asshole, though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:02:37 2010 No.5565360 >>5565346 YEs and that's the point. It's not the RED TRUTH that we have to believe. It's Beato. It doesn't mean that the other red truth are false, but it's a possibility.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:03:37 2010 No.5565364 >>5565351 Because love, if he says, red text is the truth I give you, you should believe him, because of love.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:03:37 2010 No.5565365

>>5565331
I'd say
>stopped reading there
stopped reading there, but that'd make me as ignorant as you.

If you look at the possibility that any of the red is not true, it won't get you fucking anywhere, stop pretending it will. All it will do is allow you to pick and choose with the red. Well, this red denies by theory, but Bernkastel said it, Bernkastel is a troll. That's one problem dealt with, next. You will not fucking solve the mystery with that. You will not narrow in on the truth. Doubting the red brings you further to the truth, that's something you can easily logically deduce. Each piece of red narrows down the truth, removing each piece widens the spectrum of possibilities.

You're really, really fucking dense if you think any of the red is questionable because of who says it. It's a rule of the game, you have to accept it, or you can't play. You may think being the eternal skeptic makes you clever, but really it just sends you up shit creek without a paddle. Being open to the possibility of any of the red being false is being open to the possibility that the answer is going to come out of nowhere, and nobody could have seen it coming. At that point, you can stop theorizing. Or you can shut up about your lack of trust and get on with it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:05:37 2010 No.5565378 >>5565351 It's fucking fiction. Doesn't the very existence of ingenious detectives, tricky and sometimes extremely lucky culprits confuse you?

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:06:37 2010 No.5565380

>>5565346
>Can you believe her?
In other words, can you trust her? Can you trust me? People want to just say "yes", but then restrict that trust to just her. Essentially, trusting Beato but not trusting R07, maybe with the justification that we were never told to trust him beyond trusting Beato so it's okay. Missing the point entirely. When Ronove speaks the red, Battler accepts it just as he accepted Beato's. That's Battler's trust. He reached the truth without doubting the red. Whenever he doubted the red, he was UOOOING about everything being useless.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:06:37 2010 No.5565382

>>5565355
>>he isn't.

Ho yeah. Ep6 didn't exist. And the one before didn't exist either. I forgot.
please note that I like ryukishi a lot. But umineko is supposed to be a thinking game, according to himself. So I'm not gonna leave some possibilities behind just because I THINK that the author is not giving a red herring here.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:06:37 2010 No.5565383

Red truth is just word of God aka word of the author.
That's all, any author can know everything about a story he wrote and that's the same thing for Beato or rather the gamemaster, she created the stories from A to Z and therefore know everything about them.

But an author isn't god, he can fail at being consistent or just write thing that don't make sense, that's what the logical error is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:07:37 2010 No.5565387 >>5565382 Like I said, you're not playing the game. Exactly how do you think you can play, and win, if you doubt some of the red? You can't. The only way you'd stumble upon the answer is with Kinzo levels of luck.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:07:37 2010 No.5565388

>>5565360
But the red text is a rule, imposed by her, she only refers to herself, but Beato wants to be trusted, if she had noticed Lambda or Bern had been lying, she would have done something, she didn't.red text is true by default because it's a bond of basic trust between the reader and the author, that should never be betrayed. you can twist it and whatever, but it's always sincere.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:09:37 2010 No.5565397 >>5565388 When Battler tries to doubt EVA's red, EVA says that that's the same as doubting Beato behind him who he's trying to protect. Of course, proponents of this "theory" will just say that since EVA is saying that, we don't need to trust her.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:10:37 2010 No.5565400

>>5565346

I always thought the point was you were supposed to believe her and trust in the author of the story. Battler believed her and we should too. I guess people can question that. I don't see how that is going to make you find out the truth though.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:14:37 2010 No.5565425

This is the world Beato constructed, and its physics are her rules. The red truth isn't just some magic that individual people know how to use, it's a fundamental property of the territory. Different people can invoke it and misuse it as they please, but as long as they're in Beato's territory, they can't lie with it any more than you can cause gravity to run backwards.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:15:37 2010 No.5565432 File: 359 KB, 640x480, capture_16012010_153641.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5565397 Actually, when Beato tried to object against Bern's red in the trial, Bern told her to fuck off and she did.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:15:37 2010 No.5565437

>>
If you look at the possibility that any of the red is not true, it won't get you fucking anywhere, stop pretending it will. All it will do is allow you to pick and choose with the red. Well, this red denies by theory, but Bernkastel said it, Bernkastel is a troll. That's one problem dealt with, next. You will not fucking solve the mystery with that. You will not narrow in on the truth. Doubting the red brings you further to the truth, that's something you can easily logically deduce. Each piece of red narrows down the truth, removing each piece widens the spectrum of possibilities.

The problem is your definition of "not believing the red". The red have a meaning, it's something which is sure. But not believing the red does not mean that you will NOT DO ANYTHING with the red. Even if it is not the ultimate truth, it can be a part of the message Beato wanted to pass to Battler, among other things.

And it's a rule of the game. But Beato clearly said I when declaring this rule, so this rule only applies to her. So, if Ryukishi wants Bern or 34 to screw this rule, it would not be a problem AT ALL.

And you're annoying with your "lack of trust". I trust Ryukishi, otherwise I wouldn't think that the red can be true. You're the one who is forgetting some possibilities because of your personal opinion. When I see Ryukishi talking about " a very dirty play on word", to me, it is a possiblity. probably not the truth, but a possibility. And I probably trust Ryukishi more than you. He wants the reader to solve umineko. But we CAN NOT KNOW where are his red herring and what are the "real parts" of the story.
To me, searching to much is better than not enough. The wall of blue truth in ep4.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:16:37 2010 No.5565443 >>5565432 Gotta love Bern, I've never seen someone to troll so well with the truth.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:17:37 2010 No.5565449 >>5565437 oops>>5565432

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:18:37 2010 No.5565461 >>5565387 As I said, there is "not believing" and "not believing". And no, I trust the red. When it comes from someone I can trust for sure. Anti-mystery vs anti-fantasy, again.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:19:37 2010 No.5565469

>>5565437
It's not my personal opinion. Or rather, it is, but it's an opinion that is the same as the truth of things. You're the one who can't properly grasp the rules of this game. You want someone to tell you clearly that all the red is true, but by now, you should already get it.

Sure, you can't know it's the truth. You've only just been told over and over again. Your view seems like that of many philosophers who like to doubt the most accepted of constructs, like the existence of the world itself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:20:37 2010 No.5565479 Wasn't the whole point of ep6 to illustrate the nature of "The Red Truth"? You can make it up on the fly, it doesn't matter as long as it is logical consistent.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:20:37 2010 No.5565481

>>5565461
Anti-mystery vs anti-fantasy has been irrelevant from day 1. They are terms that shouldn't even be thrown around anymore, since they have nothing to do with what the game is actually about. People who don't get that still try to imagine the "epic troll" it would be if R07 came out and said "it was a witch after all". People who just don't get Umineko.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:20:37 2010 No.5565486

>>5565437
You are just fighting against windmills there.
You won't advance that way, oh well one month left.
But you should stop complicating everything, it's just a VN written by an amateur writer, everything is far more straightforward than you you think?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:21:37 2010 No.5565488 Is there going to be an eight episode? I've been holding off of buying episode 5 or 6, as it would not make sense for me to own episode 4 and 6,7 (8)? But I really want to read episode 5 since it's been translated quite some time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:21:37 2010 No.5565493 >>5565479 "The whole point" is a huge exaggeration, but sure. That means it's still the truth in the end though. Bern and Lambda know the dangers of logic errors, they were trapped in them themselves.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:21:37 2010 No.5565495 >>5565479 It was 'love in umineko for dummies', which logically explained why you have to trust the author nad his words.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:22:37 2010 No.5565502

>>5565479
No, that illustrates the huge backlash Ryukishi07 would get by fans if any of his truth turned out to be inconsistent. He would be in a situation like Battler's in episode 6, and he probably wouldn't be saved. So obviously he tries hard to maintain the trust.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:22:37 2010 No.5565503 >>5565488 Download 6 and read them both next week. Just buy the latest, will probably be the 8th.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:22:37 2010 No.5565505

About reality not following Knox rules there are two possible solutions in my opinion.

1) Fiction theory (Knox and Dine don't work in reality but they work in fiction)

2) The culprit knew the rules to begin with so, in order to make the mystery solvable he/she planned the crimes while attaining to the rules.

It's not like Mystery is really dead (not saying that I'm a mysteryfag but just pointing out possible solutions)

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:23:37 2010 No.5565515

>>5565469
Said over and over again?
where?
Not by beato herself, sorry.
So I would not argue " NO THE RED IS FALSE LOL", but you can not be sure. So if you want to skip some possibilities, do as you want. I grasp the rules of the game very well, and that's why I don't doubt of any of beato's red. The red don't mean anything by itself, I also thought that "yeah red = absolute" before anti-mystery/anti-fantasy, but when you see the red as a symbol of trust, the setence's color doesn't have any weght. It's all about believing the person or not.
Without love, and al of this sh*t.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:24:37 2010 No.5565520

>>5565505
>>2) The culprit knew the rules to begin with so, in order to make the mystery solvable he/she planned the crimes while attaining to the rules.
That would be kind of stupid.
Episode 5 and 6 were basically entirely about confirming the fiction theory anyways, I don't even know why some people are still trying to argue about it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:27:37 2010 No.5565536 >>5565505 the complicated part is that it means that the culprit must know he is in a story...

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:28:37 2010 No.5565548

>>5565505
Or 3) R07 made a mystery that follows Knox rules and inserted Meta-investigating into his novels based on the premise that these rules are being followed?

The Knox rules are rules for the author. Not the reader. They are rules the author so that the mystery is fairer to the reader. The introduction of Knox tells us that R07 follows these rules, and he's telling us to realize he follows these rules and use them to help us solve his mysteries. Even if the rules are in a slightly modified form, they still have the trust about them, like the fact that he won't introduce a cop-out culprit we've never heard about in the last minute.

Don't confuse yourself. You don't need to think about why the culprit's murders follow these rules. That's got nothing to do with the mystery itself. The fact that the Knox rules are followed here is the same fact that a story will generally have some rather exciting events compared to reality where ultimately, any stretch of time might be not at all interesting.

A mystery novelist following the rules does not mean their culprits are aware of the rules and follow them. It means the novelist wants to have a game with you, and makes the mystery easier to solve rationally. It means the novelist wants you to try your luck at solving it before they give you the answer, because they want it to be possible for the clever reader. There will be no asspulls. It isn't about the characters themselves.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:30:37 2010 No.5565564 >>5565031 Which one is the trap? Blue or orange hair?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:30:37 2010 No.5565565 Do you believe in the detective's point of view or in some colored text ? or both ? This is what makes the game so interesting. You choose in what you truest

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:30:37 2010 No.5565566

>>5565515
Love is about trusting the author, not any of his characters. And I know you'll try to pull this back to "lol, the author only told us that Beato's red is true so it's fine". See parts like
>>5565432
Get your head out of your ass and realize how this story works, seriously.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:31:37 2010 No.5565574 >>5565548 You are just ignoring the entire meta-fiction aspect of Umineko, good fucking job.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:32:37 2010 No.5565580 >>5565574 No, you're reading too far into the meta aspect.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:32:37 2010 No.5565581 You don't read Umineko for its story.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:32:37 2010 No.5565584 >>5565564 They are from different genders. Trick for this Furfur: 34th demon>Sayo Zepar>16th demon>Yoshiya BUT Zepar defends and Furfur attacks. Your choice.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:33:37 2010 No.5565587 >>5565564 I want to say it's the blue haired one. Don't ask why, it's just a feeling I get. Also, to those arguing: Why can't we all just get along and take it easy? Ryu's going to give us the answers soon, anyway.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:34:37 2010 No.5565590 >>5565536 >>5565520 It's because of this that I think the right choice is fiction theory with the culprit being the writer

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:34:37 2010 No.5565594

>>5565566
And where is the problem here?
beato will SAY THE TRUTH in red. If you don't promise that you are telling the truth, you can say whatever you want in red. Including this. Again, no contradiction here.

To m, believing the character is as important as the author. I suppose that it is a difference of point of view here.
But again, I am not saying that the red HAVE TO BE FALSE. Only that it is not " fuck you noob it contradicts everything".

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:35:37 2010 No.5565595

>>5565587
You've got a month to solve the mystery. Most of the theories around here are single-word ones that only scratch the surface and can be interpreted in many ways. If you run out of time and get given the answer before you figure it out, you've lost. But I guess it doesn't matter if you never wanted to try your luck in the first place, or if you're already given up.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:35:37 2010 No.5565597

>>5565580
I'm reading well enough, it's not like R07 is even trying to be subtle about it.
Seriously, half of Umineko is about the whole meta-fiction thing, it's not even some kind of tiny subplot about it.
If you can't see it, well you have some serious reading comprehension problems, sorry.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:36:37 2010 No.5565609

>>5565594
I'm just telling you that you're missing the point. There's going to be no revelation in 7 that X witch's red was not always true while Beato's was always true. Sure, I can't prove that to you, but the very notion that you want it to be proved to you in the first place is like the whole novel went over your head.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:37:37 2010 No.5565611 >>5565595 I just hope my theory isn't totally disproved, but whatever.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:38:37 2010 No.5565619

>>5565595
Already given up.
When the most plausible theories are a DID maid, a hotheaded bitch, and the wife of the detective's father, with the solution being something like a bomb, then it's looking to be another Higurashi ending.

If it makes any difference at all, I'm leaning towards Kyrie being the culprit. But I've given up trying to "find more proof" at this point.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:39:37 2010 No.5565622 >>5565587 same here, i also think it's zepar.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:39:37 2010 No.5565623 >>5565595 any luck figuring it out yourself? no one has the answer or at the very least knows whether it's right or not.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:40:37 2010 No.5565629 >>5565619 You have more than enough proof to know why Kyrie is a manipulative bitch and why she would kill the ushiromiyas.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:40:37 2010 No.5565631 >>5565595 Well...I already know the truth. And i can prove it. You want to know?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:40:37 2010 No.5565632 Man, I liked Umineko a lot more before it became a horribly byzantine meta-mystery with this "without love it cannot be seen" nonsense.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:41:37 2010 No.5565637 >>5565623 No one can confirm. Personally I believe I know the truth and I'm pretty sure I can make a case for almost every mysteries in the game but it's not like I can confirm it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:41:37 2010 No.5565638 >>5565595 Arguing about the really basic things with the people, who won't accept them no matter what, won't bring you closer to the solution.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:41:37 2010 No.5565640 >>5565631 Not the anon you're speaking to but I would like to know.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:41:37 2010 No.5565641 >>5565632 > without love it cannot be seen" nonsense. you mean something that was said from the first OP song? Senza amore la verita non se videre.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:41:37 2010 No.5565643 >>5565632 I'm with you there, Anon.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:42:37 2010 No.5565646

>>5565597
Episode 6 was what mainly introduced those things. Before that, we had the messages in the bottles. But despite all this, Battler never took his theories to the insane meta-levels some people do to reach the truth. All these things just make the mystery more difficult for you. Once you think about each episode as only a story by an author, an author that didn't even write them all, you start to ask questions like "is the truth they've depicted the actual truth?" and "is this mystery even solvable at all, or did they write it to have no solution"? Instead of viewing R07 as the author and trusting him, you view person X and Featherine as the authors and wonder if you trust them, R07 is taken out of the equation. Since Battler never takes them into consideration and reaches the truth anyway, how much significance can they really have? Battler hasn't even given any indication ever that he even knows about the messages in the bottles. I mean, you could even say back to me "Battler didn't actually reach the truth, Featherine just said he did". You get into all kinds of shit, that goes nowhere.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:44:37 2010 No.5565663

>>5565629
In which case, I'll stick to my theory of Kyrie being the culprit, and wait for Ryukishi to tell me whether I'm right or wrong.

It's not that the other theories seem any less possible, but I just really don't want this to end as "Sh/Kanon is a DID maid who thinks s/he is a witch and goes around killing everyone".

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:45:37 2010 No.5565673

>>5565646
You arguing about useless stuffs.
The mystery of Rokkenjima by itself has nothing to do with the fiction theory, the truth that Battler is trying to find has nothing to do with it.

The fiction theory is mainly about the meta-world itself, about what Umineko as a whole is, that's all.

And the whole meta-fiction aspect was present far before episode 6.
Heck you could see it in the first tea party of the first episode.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:45:37 2010 No.5565676 >>5565632 So you liked half of ep. 1?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:45:37 2010 No.5565677 >>5565663 I agree, mainly because i think the same about Kyrie and can more or less figure out everything with her manipulating people around. Jessica is optional, just if I feel like including her in the scheme, which I probably won't need to.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:47:37 2010 No.5565691 So try to make a solid theory with Kyrie or Jessica as a culprit rather than just talking about it. If you can't make a strong and consistent case, it's just wishful thinking without even trying to solve Umineko.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:47:37 2010 No.5565694

>>5565663
But how much of a theory is your "Kyrie is the culprit" theory? For example, how does it work with episode 2? And have you tied all the little mysteries together with your theory? Like what Battler's sin is, how that causes the tragedy to happen, why does Rudolf think he's going to die, what causes the explosion, who's urging everyone to solve the epitaph, who sent all the letters, who wrote the numbers in blood on the door, who pulls out Kinzo's corpse and where do they get it from, where does that totem pole in Gohda's notes come from and how does that relate to the mystery, what's the significance of the couple battles in episode 6, all the little things like that? That's what I mean by these one-word theories, like Shkanontrice, or these people who say they can solve every room, which is actually rather easy. But are their solutions the truth, or just possibilities? They haven't truly solved the closed room if they just present a possibility, unless that possibility happens to be the truth.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:51:37 2010 No.5565720

>>5565673
The fiction theory would say that all the worlds we see are fiction, and it has all those consequences. We don't know if the truth between each episode is consistent with the characters, especially when the authors switch, or if the depictions of the characters we see are even close to how the characters really where in the real tragedy. The fiction theory has all these mysteries lined up that may or may not be consistent, that may or may not be solvable and may or may not have any truth internally at all, then says that it may or may not be relevant to the truth of things at all. It seems to me that the messages in the bottles and the writings of featherine are just metaphors for the existence of different kakera where different things happen. But an important aspect of that is while each kakera may be different, there are truths that run consistently between each one, and each one naturally has a conclusion, unlike a story you could write that is complete fantasy and impossibility and has no truthful explanation to it.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:51:37 2010 No.5565724

>>5565694
All of them but fucking Battler's sin and how that affects the tragedy, god if I hate that part. Kyrie has a more than good enough reason to kill everybody without the need of a sin. Though if I relate it to Shannon I can get something out of it, but i just hate her so much.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:53:37 2010 No.5565732

>>5565694
Hell, it's not even my theory. Someone else came up with the idea of Kyrie being the culprit, gathered a fuckload of evidence for it, then presented it as a theory. I liked and agreed with this theory, so I've decided to stick to it. If somebody else has already gone and dug up the evidence to support it, then why should I have to go hunting for the exact same evidence when it's right there?

My goal was never to solve a mystery written by a man as mad as Ryukishi, anyway. My goal was to read an interesting VN, which so far it has been. Though I would have had more interest in it if I didn't have to wait so long between the EPs.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:53:37 2010 No.5565738

>>5565724
But the sin is an important part. And when you combine the sin with this passage, what do you think? It's an important part you need to explain.

...Beatrice.
Listen carefully.
I will turn over my love for Battler to you.
Become the woman Battler desires.

I will give you the blonde hair he desires.
I will give you the blue eyes he desires.
I will give you the new personality he desires.
And... In place of me, love him.
And if possible, be loved by him.

I can no longer love him.
The feelings I could not obtain...the feelings I could not bear...please obtain them.

From this day forward, you are no longer the phantom of Rokkenjima who only plays tricks.
From this day forward, you are the ruler of Rokkenjima, and the one who waits for him to return until he fulfills his promise.

From this day forward, you will inherit that in my place.
Thus, from this day forward, you are no longer me.

I will push all of my suffering on to you... Please forgive me for being the only one to become happy.

From this day forward, you have the qualifications to detest everything.
You are the Golden Witch, Beatrice.

And someday.
Destroy everything, revive everything.
...Bless all lovers.

At that time.
...For both you and I to find happiness together...I will be wishing for from the bottom of my heart.

From this day on, you are not me.
From this day on, I am not you.
We will divide one soul, and share.
That naturally won't fill up one soul, but. (? not 100% sure about this line)
Surely it will allow (us/you/me? no subject defined) to see more dreams than a person.
May we be blessed...
My cute Beatrice...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:55:37 2010 No.5565747 >>5565732 I'm no talking about evidence, but a true theory of everything in Umienko, rather than a theory for a certain aspect of it with supporting clues.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:55:37 2010 No.5565749 >>5565640 It's Jessica. Read EP1 again and pay attention in her actions. There is a lot of logical inconsistency.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:55:37 2010 No.5565753 >>5565720 That's where you believe the author, you know the main fucking theme of Umineko.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:56:37 2010 No.5565754

>>5565738
hich is why I hate that part, that's it. I can even take Shannon and Kanon as two completely separated people and would still work, but noooo, Battler's sin has to be there. i can use it either with Shannon and Jessica and my theory would be the same, though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:56:37 2010 No.5565757 File: 188 KB, 1217x336, Teatrice Theory 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Naturally, I'll be sticking to the best theory so far.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:57:37 2010 No.5565766

>>5565749
Like the fact that she is next to Battler just when Beatrice appears, a scene that happened before midnight?

Or the fact that she pretty much always has an alibi, she sure must act fast to kill Nanjo, Kumasawa and Genji for example even though she was in the same room as Battler when it happened.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:58:37 2010 No.5565769 >>5565738 I... I understand! This is not about multiple personalities. The speaker is saying she's going to write a story with Beatrice as the main character, to have Beato live out the love she couldn't have herself!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:58:37 2010 No.5565770 >>5565766 killer=/=manipualtor, we've gone through this over and over.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 11:59:37 2010 No.5565774

>>5565753
If you believe the author, the fiction theory becomes entirely irrelevant. Unless your version of believing the author is believing that author A has their own truth which is represented in their two letters, and author B has their own truth which is represented in their four. But that doesn't get you to the actual truth of things, does it? Like I said, instead of belief in R07, you believe these two authors instead. Which, in the end, are not authors, but characters subservient to the true author who's supposed to keep things consistent.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:00:37 2010 No.5565783 >>5565770 You don't need a manipulator. Try to find the person who kill before anything else.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:00:37 2010 No.5565789
File: 2.28 MB, 640x4800, kakera memory all.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

When Battler found the truth, he observed all that have happened so far, all what we were shown. That's because different kakeras contain those pieces of information and he was drowning in that meta-Ocean with them. Even the flashbacks we've been shown are called "kakera_memory #" in the game's resources.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:01:37 2010 No.5565792

>>5565770
Having a culprit who pulls the strings and a killer who slaughters fucking everyone is usually utilized by weak theories that favor certain people as grand masterminds, but ultimately can't have them commit any crimes and so needs them "manipulating" or puppet-mastering a person (Usually Shannon or Kanon) to kill everyone by some unknown means. Like this, you can choose any culprit you like.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:02:37 2010 No.5565803 >>5565749 except Jessica is constantly with Battler in EP 1.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:02:37 2010 No.5565804 >>5565774 All the fictions originate from the same person, the author. Even Featherine said so. Umineko is just the author showing his truth in various ways, in various stories, by believing in him you can find the core of everything.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:02:37 2010 No.5565807

>>5565783
Kanon, manipulated by Jessica, not taht difficult, he isn't really dead and jessica told him that Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo are working for Natsuhi, the culprit and a person Kanon hates a lot.
She then gave Maria the lette in the room to drive them out, kanon killed them, placed the other letter, Natsuhi read it and Kanon shot her, believing she was the culprit.
This can obviously work with Nanjo being the manipulator and being betrayed by either genji or kumasawa, so Kanon kills him.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:02:37 2010 No.5565812

Van dine's rule 12.
There must be but one culprit, no matter how many murders are committed. The culprit may, of course, have a minor helper or co-plotter; but the entire onus must rest on one pair of shoulders: the entire indignation of the reader must be permitted to concentrate on a single black nature.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:03:37 2010 No.5565814 >>5565757 I almost forgot about that one

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:05:37 2010 No.5565833 >>5565676 It didn't start being this horribly complex until Episode 5.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:05:37 2010 No.5565834 .>>5565766 The killer doesn't need to be the culprit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:06:37 2010 No.5565844 Trying to find a manipulator is just overcomplicating things for no reason. Best keep it simple, who could have killed? And for what reasons? And how? That's all you need to know.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:06:37 2010 No.5565848 To lighten up everything, in 1:12 in the new OP there's a scene of eriak burning, do you think she'll come back from hell?

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:07:37 2010 No.5565851

>>5565804
And then we come to the point that discerns whether this theory actually deserves to be called a theory at all. Is the author, R07, writing a mystery that is consistent throughout all episodes, as if each episode is just another kakera with similar events? If the answer is yes, this theory doesn't even need to be spoken of at all, and you can forget all about it, since we knew from the start that someone was writing these stories, derp. If the answer is no, then the theory actually matters, and the motives of the two authors subservient to R07 actually matter. Because he is delivering the truth in a twisted way, and that truth is being filtered through the views of two characters. There may be some kind of truth that we're expected to see when the gameboards written by these two people may run contrary to it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:09:37 2010 No.5565867 >>5565812 But one killer can't kill anyone except the crazy immortal ultra-meido. But she can't be the culprit by rule 11. Therefore we need several killers. Therefore 'the true culprit' must be a mastermind manipulating them into killing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:10:37 2010 No.5565873 >>5565848 How is bringing back that stupid cunt lightening anything

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:10:37 2010 No.5565879 >>5565844 And if it somehow doesn't fit, well, we can always bend some reds, right.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:11:37 2010 No.5565881 >>5565873 I mean tio the game so we can stop the usual theory wars.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:12:37 2010 No.5565889

>>5565851
Looks like you didn't understand.
Oh well, I'll explain it again.
Basically there is 2 main plots in Umineko, one is the mystery of Rokkenjima and the other is the mystery of the "world" of Umineko.

You don't need to know the mystery of the world to understand the mystery of Rokkenjima.
Sherlock Holmes for example didn't need to know he was in the fictions to find the truth of the various mysteries he was in, same thing there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:12:37 2010 No.5565890 >>5565769 That actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Beats the DID maido.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:12:37 2010 No.5565891

>>5565867
Differences between murder methods and weapons would indicate there's more than one killer. So try to find multiple killers, but do that first before trying to say "Right, the mastermind is X but they don't kill anyone, they do it through Z and Y". Find the killers first, there should be evidence pointing towards who they are, even if they are pawns. Then, after that, you can try to trace them back to a puppetmaster. If there is one.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:13:37 2010 No.5565896

>>5565867
> Therefore 'the true culprit' must be a mastermind manipulating them into killing.
Which likely means that the person who has the letters placed in every episode (not necessarily the person who writes those letters, but the person who has them written) is probably the culprit.

inb4Kinzoplanneditallinhiswill

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:13:37 2010 No.5565900 >>5565848 I don't think that's Erika. The skirt? has a weird shape. If anything, she appears at 0:51.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:13:37 2010 No.5565902 >>5565889 The mystery of the world of Umineko, is it a bunch of glass fragments or some guy writing? That isn't a mystery, but an irrelevancy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:15:37 2010 No.5565907 >>5565902 It's a mystery and basically the whole fucking theme of the work.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:16:37 2010 No.5565910 >>5565896 >Kinzoplanneditallinhiswill It's actually a good theory, ties long-living Nanjo and faithful servants. I don't know why people don't like it at all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:16:37 2010 No.5565911 >>5565896 >inb4Kinzoplanneditallinhiswill Oh Kinzo, you so crazy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:16:37 2010 No.5565912 File: 115 KB, 480x480, kin_akuwaraia1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5565896 Kinzo as the culprit would be one giant FUCK YEAH for me. I wouldn't put it past him.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:16:37 2010 No.5565915 File: 92 KB, 619x342, kawabata.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I was trying to find out the other day. Looks a bit like Gaap to me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:16:37 2010 No.5565917 Episode 1 and 2 are done by ShKanon without a fucking doubt. Episode 3 and 4 are the ones that are problematic, though both Shannon and Kanon are very suspicious there as well.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:17:37 2010 No.5565920 >>5565907 That's fucking funny, I could have sworn the story was mainly about some aristocratic fuckasses getting their murder on.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:18:37 2010 No.5565925 >>5565910 >ties long-living Nanjo I've always thought that the reason why Nanjo goes along with the lie is because they promised him money to treat his ill grandaughter. I could be wrong, of course.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:19:37 2010 No.5565930 >>5565917 >Episode 1 and 2 are done by ShKanon without a fucking doubt. Until Dine trolls us all that is, which i hope he won't. But still DID meido is poor.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:19:37 2010 No.5565936

>>5565907
Why does the nature of the world of Umineko matter? And what do you even mean by the world of Umineko, other than jerking yourself off to the possibilities of what doesn't matter, or what has already been told to you? What do you even mean by the world? The mystery of who creates the letters? Obviously, that would be someone who was on Rokkenjima at that time, for the first two. But then Featherine went and said she actually wrote the story about Ange surviving and investigating the letters. So then you wonder who Featherine is. She's probably just a metaphor for R07 who has no real role.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:20:37 2010 No.5565945 >>5565930 Wright only says that they can't be the culprits. They can be helpers or co-plotters, apparently.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:22:37 2010 No.5565954 File: 420 KB, 899x476, 1274607915135_ib4f.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:22:37 2010 No.5565959

>>5565936
Because that's the story R07 is trying to tell.
I don't even know what you are arguing about, it's about everything about Umineko.

The love between an author and a reader, the true meaning of magic, mystery vs fantasy.
Everything link to the fiction theory, that's Umineko.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:23:37 2010 No.5565963 >>5565959 You're just spouting a bunch of vagueness and pretending there's some mystery there, you know. I suppose the mystery is what the hell you're talking about.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:24:37 2010 No.5565966 >>5565917 >Episode 1 and 2 are done by ShKanon without a fucking doubt. Yeah.. no. You can use Kanon for the last murders of ep1, you don't even need him for moere, and you don't need him for ep2.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:24:37 2010 No.5565969 >>5565954 Replace with Kyrie, Rosa and Genji >Haha, remember that time tricked everyone into thinking Beatrice was a special guest on the island?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:25:37 2010 No.5565975 >>5565966 Episode 2, the murderer had to be inside the room with George, Shannon and Gohda. No murders were shown to clearly happen after that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:26:37 2010 No.5565979 The real mystery is why everyone thinks all of the survivors are just sitting on their butts when they're off-screen instead of taking action to protect themselves.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:26:37 2010 No.5565982 >>5565975 use Genji, the twilights ended, no murder had to happen after it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:28:37 2010 No.5565986 >>5565982 In episode 1 at least, Genji murders nobody, despite the fact that he's alive for almost the whole game. Why is he suddenly murdering in 2? Keep some consistency.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:28:37 2010 No.5565992 >>5565969 IIRC when they called Genji to interrogate him about Beatrice, the cousins were already sent to the guesthouse.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:29:37 2010 No.5565995 >>5565992 So you think maybe that never happened?

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:30:37 2010 No.5565997

>>5565986
>n episode 1 at least, Genji murders nobody,
He helped to move the 1st twilight corpses and murdered Eva and HIdeyoshi, locked himself in the room and fled while Kanon was in the bathroom, then ran to take everyone there, which is why they take some time to arrive.
Consistency enough.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:30:37 2010 No.5566001 >>5565997 Helped who?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:31:37 2010 No.5566003 >>5565995 I think that only Rosa, Kyrie and Maria talked about meeting Beatrice in front of Battler in ep2.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:31:37 2010 No.5566006
File: 398 KB, 900x787, 1278286806711.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Moving away from the theory wars for a moment, who else hopes this guy turns out to be a fucking awesome character?

As a side note, Pixiv work really fucking fast, don't they?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:31:37 2010 No.5566009 >>5565997 >He helped to move the 1st twilight corpses and murdered Eva and HIdeyoshi Only no. Red: Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are not murderers

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:31:37 2010 No.5566010 >>5565997 >locked himself in the room and fled while Kanon was in the bathroom why?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:32:37 2010 No.5566013 >>5566003 But didn't Gohda say that Genji told him Beatrice was a guest in front of Battler? I doubt Gohda was lying.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:32:37 2010 No.5566016 >>5565997 Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are not murderers Though you can say it only applies to parlor murder.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:32:37 2010 No.5566017 Is it bad that Wright reminds me of Squall from Final Fantasy VIII?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:33:37 2010 No.5566019 >>5566009 >not murderers By the way, in witch-hunt's latest ep4 patch this is "not killers" instead. So they couldn't have killed anyone in self-defense or anyone like that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:33:37 2010 No.5566024 File: 98 KB, 402x599, 1278260027045.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5566017 ...Shit, now I see it, too. Reminds me of Richter Belmont more, though.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:33:37 2010 No.5566025

>>5565963
Honestly everything tell me you just aren't very clever.

Alright I'll expand just for you.
What is magic in Umineko? You remember episode 4, right?
Remember the diary of Maria and how she could live through her fantasies in it?
Remember the magical setting that Maria and "Beatrice" created and the whole marriage sorciere?
Remember the whole "creating an alternate event or just making some new characters within yourself to make your heart stronger" theme present in every episodes with Maria in episode 1 and 4, Jessica in episode 2, Eva in episode 3, Ange in episode 4 and Natsuhi in episode 5?

Magic in Umineko is just creating a "fiction" that override true events you are trying to run away from, it's having delusions about stuffs you can't have.
That's exactly what the retellings of the murder of Rokkenjima is.
It's the demystifying of a murder mystery that have been obstructed by the delusions of someone who is trying to run away from his responsibility.

Then you have stuffs like the red text, aka the word of the author, the logical error, the Knox/Dine rules, all of these belong to the realm of fiction.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:33:37 2010 No.5566027 >>5566016 Oh come on. The red isn't "Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa didn't kill each-other in the parlor." It's that they aren't murderers. If they killed earlier in the game, they would still be murderers later.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:37:37 2010 No.5566048

>>5566025
No, you're just making a big deal off nothing and jerking over that nothing.

You aren't explaining. You're just answering questions. Maybe I can answer these questions for you so you can shut up about this vague mystery you won't define?
>What is magic in Umineko? You remember episode 4, right?
Lies.
>Remember the diary of Maria and how she could live through her fantasies in it?
No, she didn't live her fantasies.
>Remember the magical setting that Maria and "Beatrice" created and the whole marriage sorciere?
Lied to each other to strengthen their belief in their lies.
>Remember the whole "creating an alternate event or just making some new characters within yourself to make your heart stronger"
It's hard to convince yourself of your own lie, you need someone else to play back that lie to you.

We already know that the magic in the events don't really happen. And you're trying to assign one person as the guilty party when there are supposed to be two authors.

>Then you have stuffs like the red text, aka the word of the author, the logical error, the Knox/Dine rules, all of these belong to the realm of fiction.
Yeah, the meta-world that exists for the sole purpose of presenting the mystery to the reader.

Where's the mystery now?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:38:37 2010 No.5566050 >>5566006 I hope they both turn out to be awesome, quite frankly. If we're going to get even more new characters they might as well be good ones.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:38:37 2010 No.5566051 i find it interesting in the portrait the butterfly brooch is on the table

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:38:37 2010 No.5566052

>>5566013
About Gohda...
We have a suspicious witch party with many candies and stuff. Who's the cook? Right.
Later when they speak in the parlor he's sure that Kanon and Jessica in her room, though he never followed them to be so sure.
When Nanjo and Kumasawa murdered(?). The chapter is called Wolves and Sheep Puzzle. They were Genji, Shannon and Gohda vs them in the servants room.
Ep4 testimony about magic.

Though it's all probably a red herring, but still.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:38:37 2010 No.5566054 >>5565031 Fuck you, OP. I thought they had finally gotten a good artist to draw the characters but when I open the video, it's the same ugly artstyle. FUCK UMINEKO!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:40:37 2010 No.5566062 >>5566054 Oh look, it's a faget.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:42:37 2010 No.5566079 >>5566017 >>5566024 Richter: Blue badass coat. Squall: Hair, face, expression, white shirt with necklace. Thanks guys, now I will never be able to unsee.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:42:37 2010 No.5566081 >>No, she didn't live her fantasies. I lol'd. Read ep4 again for this point.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:43:37 2010 No.5566084 >>5566048 Alright, there is no point arguing with people like you, enjoy not seeing stuffs anyone with a lick of reading comprehension could easily see though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:44:37 2010 No.5566104 >>5566062 Oh look, it's a bleeding ass.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:45:37 2010 No.5566111 >>5566027 By this logic you can say that when Beato says "X is dead" it means that he's been dead all that time and not just died. Also, context is important, shows ep6.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:47:37 2010 No.5566117 File: 176 KB, 437x480, fea_waraia2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5566079 So Ryu has just taken Richter Belmont, combined him with Squall, and put a red streak through his hair? ...At least his outfit doesn't look anything like this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:47:37 2010 No.5566120 File: 123 KB, 465x360, 1266273400153.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5566104

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:48:37 2010 No.5566126

>>5566084
Yeah, fine. The only thing I can see you doing is pretending what we already know is some kind of mystery.

>>5566081
No proof that Maria's diary actually shows fantasies in it. There's only that one night she spent with Sakutarou, where she describes what she did. Only if you side with Ange and say she actually didn't have fun can you support this idea. Maria says to Ange that she's looking at everything badly, thinking that Maria couldn't possibly be happy. It's Ange who's trying to force her interpretation (truth of the future) onto the events, not Maria who's trying to mask her sadness.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:49:37 2010 No.5566129 >>5566117 >and put a red streak through his hair? The red streak is actually his hand slipping while drawing the scar.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:50:37 2010 No.5566135 >>5565031 Yawn, tell me when Ep 8 Marriage of the Golden Witch is ready.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:52:37 2010 No.5566159 >>5566117 Ryu realized that nothing could ever top Featherine's costume and stopped actively trying to make them retarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:52:37 2010 No.5566161 File: 643 KB, 800x800, 1278266477624.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5566129 Oh God, that's quite an amusing idea actually.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:53:37 2010 No.5566168 >>5566111 Nope, it's the opposite. If she said that "X is not dead" it means that X has never been dead. "X is not a murderer", therefore X has never commited murder.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:54:37 2010 No.5566171 >>5566126 Are you disregarding all of the training she did to summon the stakes and when she ordered them to kill the girls who were bullying her?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:54:37 2010 No.5566175 >>5566161 It explains that thing sticking out from the top of his nose, at least. It's the bottom half of what's supposed to be Squall's scar.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:55:37 2010 No.5566183 >>5566079 AND BLACK PANTS WITH BELTS

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:56:37 2010 No.5566188

>>5566111
No, your logic is completely broken.

What makes someone a killer? Killing someone. Once somebody has killed, at all points AFTER they killed, they're a killer. You can argue that this status is somehow removed at some point for some strange reason, but is this magical point of redemption supposed to happen in the same day they killed? Context is important, but there is nothing about the context in which Lambda says this red that says she's only talking about this case. Logically, that red just can't apply to only that case.

And what is the point of time she's talking about? Episode 1 is already long since over, you could say she's talking at a point of time that is the end of the game. And at that point, Genji is still not a killer.

On the other hand, what makes someone dead? Dying. Once they are dead, they're dead at all points AFTER they died.

Now, here is where your logic completely breaks down. The correct comparison is saying that "after someone dies, they're dead", which is correct.

The argument was that Genji killed on the second twilight. The time he died was long after that. The time we're using the red at is after that still. At that point, Genji is not a killer. So he has not yet killed. A comparison would be saying that at that point, Genji is not yet dead. That means Genji did not die before that point.

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Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:58:37 2010 No.5566199

>>5566171
No? The training she did to summon the stakes was the training of deluding herself. She couldn't tell them to kill because she was not prepared to kill, because if they were really to kill someone, Ange would have to be the one doing the killing, since they're just her imaginary friends.

Again, where is this mystery mystery you keep talking about?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 12:58:37 2010 No.5566204 File: 512 KB, 800x800, 1278348771601.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5566161 Looks like theater lights.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:00:37 2010 No.5566215 Umineko is going to end up like Lost with some really simple explanation that everyone just disregarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:01:37 2010 No.5566219 >>5566215 Rokkenjima is the island from LOST.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:02:37 2010 No.5566226 >>5566215 Time gas?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:02:37 2010 No.5566232 File: 99 KB, 247x248, 1230254876255.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >And now I summon the strongest witch-hunter, the twenty wedges: Wizard Hunting Wright! >...Whatever

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:04:37 2010 No.5566242 >>5566215 So Battler will get a CONGRATULATIONS ending, too?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:04:37 2010 No.5566246 File: 22 KB, 540x386, congratulations.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5566215 Eva end? ...Why do I think this is plausible? Fuck.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:06:37 2010 No.5566265 No Battler, you are the witches. Then Battler married Jessica.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:07:37 2010 No.5566266 File: 158 KB, 600x800, 1278267645907.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5566232 Motherfucker. His whole expression just says "...Whatever."

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:14:37 2010 No.5566317 File: 177 KB, 640x480, ep7_ss1_l.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5566204 And Nanjo is there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:16:37 2010 No.5566337 >>5566317 Nanjo Beatrice confirmed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:17:37 2010 No.5566349 ...so now that I hope we have confirmed Genji didn't kill in episode 1, why is he killing in episode 2?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:17:37 2010 No.5566355 >>5566337 WE SOLVED UMINEKO WE CAN ALL GO HOME NOW

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:17:37 2010 No.5566358 >>5566337 >Nanjo is his own granddaughter and Fukuin is a theater school confirmed Fixed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:20:37 2010 No.5566379 >>5566337 Or Banjo for short.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:22:37 2010 No.5566395 File: 40 KB, 300x316, Banjokazooie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5566379 Instead of thinking of the instrument, I thought of this motherfucker. Shit.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:24:37 2010 No.5566408

>>5566317
The murders are just an elaborate act set up for the realiy TV show "You've been murder-mystery'd" with Nanjo, retired doctor-turned television personality, as coordinator. He uses his medical skill to creating convincing faked deaths, evidenced by how many fake deaths there are in 5 and 6. All the red text just refers to the status of the actors in the script. The first four episodes are done to trick Battler, but in episode 5 and 6 he figures it out early on and joins in on the act. In episode 5, since Eva and Natsuhi, the ones being tricked, take it a little too far, Battler reveals the truth with an "it's all useless". Erika is a hired actor.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:24:37 2010 No.5566409 >>5566395 Who didn't?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:26:37 2010 No.5566429 >>5566408 That's actually pretty fucking badass.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:26:37 2010 No.5566433 Trust me , the culprit is Gohda.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:27:37 2010 No.5566438 This episode is going to confirm Kyrie culprit, then deconfirm it, then confirm Jessica as the culprit, then reveal that Jessica never existed, and then Sayo will shoot Tyler Durden in the head.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:28:37 2010 No.5566442 >>5566433 His pimphand in the new opening is suspicious...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:30:37 2010 No.5566458 >>5566429 Or retarded and makes the whole story and meta-referential wanking even more pointless.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:31:37 2010 No.5566466 File: 113 KB, 844x665, 11708170.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Shota Krauss is moe

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:32:37 2010 No.5566479

>>5566458
Umineko will be an exercise in pointlessness if everyone's dead at the end.

Yay, Battler learned the truth of his death: Mainly, that a crazy maid killed her best friends because she was crazy. Awesome. Now he can go to heaven, because he knows why he died pointlessly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:32:37 2010 No.5566483 >>5566466 TELLING YOU MAN KANON AND JESSICA DID THE FUSION DANCE

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:34:37 2010 No.5566498 >>5566479 >Awesome. Now he can go to heaven, because he knows why he died pointlessly So, LOST end.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:35:37 2010 No.5566510 >>5566483 Indeed. The real question here is why? My guess is that Jessica tried to rape Kanon, but because she inherited the stupid gene from Krauss she failed miserably and ended up doing the fusion dance with him instead. KANONICA ENSUES.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:37:37 2010 No.5566521 >>5566466 holy shit it all makes sense. the new girl is genderbent Krauss.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:37:37 2010 No.5566529

>>5566498
It's a bit worse. He married the personification of the culprit. The psycho killer who stuffs peoples bodies with candy. I mean, let's think about it for a moment. If this fiction stuff or whatever is true, if everyone is dead and there is nothing to be done, all Beato did was (agonizingly) torture Battler so he could get to the truth, so he could learn how she brutally and unjustly killed him and his entire family.

What? What's the POINT? No one is saved in the slightest.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:41:37 2010 No.5566555 >>5566458 ...are you the same guy who's been making comparisons between Meta and Masturbation for this whole thread? Give it a rest.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:42:37 2010 No.5566570 >>5566529 >>Implying Beatrice didnt had a good enough reason to kill everyone that even made Battler forgive her. >>Implying that EP2 happened.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:43:37 2010 No.5566584
File: 128 KB, 533x448, 1278269850380.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Philo Vance takes the stage, allowing Erika to exit so the real act begins. Vance switches spots on the boat and falls off into the water, ends up on Rokkenjima and everything plays out in the same situation as Erika. But because Vance is flamboyant instead of wanting Jessica's frilly dress they end up giving him either Krauss' old clothes(Which happen to be exquisite) or Rosa's old clothes. Vance sees Battler and the way Shannon and him talk so he ends up telling Shannon that he is interested in Battler romantically(To provoke a reaction), Shannon with her idiocy gives him the butterfly brooch in hopes his love can be returned to him. Later the next day after finding the gold he shows up at the mansion again to find a series of murders. At this point in time everyone thinks he's the killer but he points the fact out that he has been looking for the gold and has found it, thus he would have no reason to kill anyone on the island.

And this point in time the game freezes, and the world shatters into the Meta-World where it is revealed that Van Dine was the one to sent his foppish detective to the island. He does not care about love and nor does Vance when it comes to a mystery.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:43:37 2010 No.5566587 >>5566570 Oh god what can that reason possibly be? She killed them because whoever the culprit is "loves" Batler?

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:44:37 2010 No.5566588

>>5566529
Yeah. In a sense, I think an ending where George goes to heaven with Shannon, Jessica with Kanon, and Battler with Beatrice would be the worst of them all. Because then the culprit wins, pretty much.

The culprit can't win. If everyone must be dead, at the very least I want them to know what crazy bastard did it to them. And I want the crazy bastard to realize the extent of her sins.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:44:37 2010 No.5566594 >>5566584 Yes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:45:37 2010 No.5566597 >>5566570 Really, justify the mass murders of 15 people to me. Go ahead. I'm dying to hear this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:46:37 2010 No.5566602 >>5566587 Its a devil's proof. You cant prove me that the motive of the murders was stupid while i cannot prove it isnt. But as far as the narration goes i really dont believe it will be something like ''LOL SHE'S CRAZY''

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:46:37 2010 No.5566606

>>5566597
The culprit knows an explosion will kill everyone but they know nobody will believe them. They tried to solve the epitaph themselves but they couldn't. So they forced the family to solve the epitaph with murders, hoping that although some would be killed to motivate them, some might be spared from the explosion.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:47:37 2010 No.5566610 >>5566584 Flat Chested Jessica is wearing the one winged eagle, while Erika was given clothes, she wasn't allowed to wear the eagle. I don't think that potentially penis possessing philosopher can be Vance.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:47:37 2010 No.5566612 File: 53 KB, 569x213, im okay with this.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5566584

>>	/jp/ Police Mon Jul 5 13:48:37 2010 No.5566628 reported

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:48:37 2010 No.5566629

>>5566606
The epitagh is immaterial to Beatrice, she has nothing to gain and nothing to lose from it being solved.

And your situation is contrived and quite frankly illogical.

Shannon has Jessica as a best friend and George as a fiance. They would absolutely listen to her.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:50:37 2010 No.5566639 Do we even know that the two newcomers work as a pair? Do they know each other?

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:50:37 2010 No.5566640
File: 279 KB, 562x800, 11688988.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5566610

It could be that he solved the epitaph before even coming to the island after speaking with the boat driver and hearing about it. And that the second he gets to the island he finds the gold and shows everyone while still wearing his wet clothes, and thus was given the one-winged eagle bearing clothes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:50:37 2010 No.5566641 >>5566597 >>5566587 Why don't you just wait a month and find out yourself why

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:50:37 2010 No.5566642 >>5566629 Well, the culprit isn't Shannon. It's the witch Beatrice who wants to tell everyone Kinzo rigged an explosion but can't because none of them can see her.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:51:37 2010 No.5566646 >>5566629 She wouldn't gain anything from it, but the family would.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:51:37 2010 No.5566647 >>5566642 Ah ha! Genius! A witch did it, with magi- FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:51:37 2010 No.5566650 >>5566629 Even then, they can't escape from the island.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:53:37 2010 No.5566665 >>5566650 It's not like the explosion erases the entire goddamn island. At the very least, it doesn't reach Kuwadorian.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:53:37 2010 No.5566668 >>5566647 Well, no. A witch would just be trying to help. The bomb was set by Kinzo.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:53:37 2010 No.5566670

>>5566646
She wouldn't die herself, that's something right there.
But even debating about it being immaterial is pointless, she could have just told George and Jessica. She could have told pretty much anyone.

And even if by some miracle your highly contrived scenario were true, murders are hardly an incentive. The family is full of greedy bastards, Sayo has access to gold, she could have easily motivated them to solve the epitagh using the gold. Money talks.

When it comes down to it, she DIDN'T have a valid reason to kill everyone, she's nothing but a crazy murderer.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:54:37 2010 No.5566677

>>5566597
Without love it cannot be seen, isnt it?
A murderer will be just a murderer as long as you dont really know him or his motivations, but a person can turn into a murderer for a fucking bunch of reasons, even more in a island as fucked up as Rokkenjima.

Firstly a murderer could be forced to murder to protect something, be it a secret, a person or even the honor of someone.

A murderer could have an horrible past where he/she deatached from the very own value of life which would justify his/her actions as childish and desperate (see takano).

A murderer could end up being involved in murder without really wanting to do that, and then be forced to continue murdering by someone else.

We can assume that Beatrice never killed by the sake of pleasure, that she never killed because of gold and that revenge is not the reason for the killings.

So it open dozens of possibilities that doesnt necessarily means that she kills people just because she's lol crazy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:55:37 2010 No.5566687 >>5566529 Maybe meta-Battler's just a stand-in for Ange investigating the murders. For her it's not pointless to finally understand who killed her whole family.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:58:37 2010 No.5566706
File: 488 KB, 591x1047, wtcthp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

If we're talking about incentive, then let me point out(Save Shkannon for later) that in every episode so far someone might've found the gold. Starting from EP1 to EP5 it would go in order something like Natsuhi/Krauss/Kanon, Rosa/Genji, Eva/Rosa, Kyrie/Krauss, Erika/Battler.

I'm pretty sure Eva killed Rosa to keep her mouth shut about the gold, we could then assume that someone else might be like her and kill someone else because of the secret of finding the gold.

Also to validate some of my assumptions in the tarot card Kyrie is in the library holding onto a book which may or may not be an atlas. Not that it really is anything concrete.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 13:58:37 2010 No.5566708

>>5566670

>she's nothing but a crazy murderer

Yes, that's why I don't see her being the culprit in the end. She's not in any way sympathetic. She actually has a pretty good life and people who love her. I can't deal with the whole thing boiling down to some crazy ass bitch being crazy.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:00:37 2010 No.5566725

>>5566677
Motivations can be anything under the sun, but the act of murder is always the same. Of course the murderer is going to think his or her motivations are sound, but that's not the point. Murder is wrong, plain and simple. TWe could understand Takano's motivations, but by no means does that make her good or by any means justified.

The same applies to Sayo. There's hardly any logical explanation to why she killed people, and that is because she's ill in the head. Her actions were evil. She killed her fiance, her best friend, and the closest thing she had to a family. If she wanted them to go to the golden land or not means nothing, in the end, she killed them. Maria never got Sakutarou, Jessica never graduated high school, George never got married, I could go on and on. She robbed 15 people of life, for no real reason.

That.... that doesn't feel like the Beatrice I know.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:03:37 2010 No.5566748 >>5566725 In b4 Sayo is neither the killer or Beatrice. Anyway, i never said the killer is right, but i said he could be forgiven. Things arent black and white in Umineko's world...and for the record, Beatrice WANTS to be stopped and wants to be saved.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:04:37 2010 No.5566755 >>5566677 None of those are excuses to a murder, just explanations.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:05:37 2010 No.5566761 Justifications for murder in fiction usually sound like lame freudian excuses, so I don't like them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:05:37 2010 No.5566763 >>5566725 >>5566748 Doubletrice time?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:06:37 2010 No.5566769 >>5566763 YES I MISS THE DOUBLETRICE BROS

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:07:37 2010 No.5566778 Are you kidding? Battler's family is a bunch of greedy two-faced narcissist nutcases. Offing them would practically be an act of mercy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:07:37 2010 No.5566781 >>5566763 Best part of Doubletrice is that Meta Battler marries two girls at once.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:08:37 2010 No.5566790 >>5566755 Have you read any real mysteries, by chance?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:10:37 2010 No.5566808 >>5566778 KINZO WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:15:37 2010 No.5566840 Inb4 "Beatrice" is under duress of some final boss mastermind... like Kyrie.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:17:37 2010 No.5566855 New thread: >>5566851

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:17:37 2010 No.5566857 >>5566790 Do you have anything in the way of argument other than that misplaced highschooler's arrogance?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:21:37 2010 No.5566894 >>5566840 Your love. Yourself. Everyone else.

Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:22:37 2010 No.5566896

>>5566763
I find it funny that even tough Shkanontrice fags keep on repeating that Jessica could never be the culprit, she is the one that have the BEST motivation of the suspects so far.

I mean, SHE IS THE BIRD IN THE CAGE. She is the one that is fucked up all the time by all of the Ushiromiyas. She is the loneliest one and the one that will be forced to marry to some half assed rich guy from some influent family instead of someone she loves.

While all the other cousins have it easy and could do whatever shit they wanted, she is completely chained to the family and everything it represents until the day she dies.

In the other hand there's the possibility of she being adopted and being the real Battler, or she being the daughter fo Beatrice II (this can be easily assumed if you stop to think about how after so many years Natsuhi MIRACULOUSLY had Jessica.), thing she could discover by herself.

Even if she is not the one really doing most of the murders, she is the one person that could more likely made a servant (like Kanon/Shannon) do it. And at this time she would be near Battler noticing his every move and putting all those letters when needed.

The only two episodes where she dies early are completely doubtfull (corpse thing in EP2 and the possibility of doing anything she wanted in EP5), there are many many anomalies and strange details involving her in the whole story...well i guess you guys get what i mean.

Even so people keep on hitting in the ''Shkanontrice as the only murderer'' key. I dont get it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 14:22:37 2010 No.5566898 >>5566584 I think you misunderstood. Vance is supposed to be a man.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 15:23:37 2010 No.5567248 File: 364 KB, 635x338, ghoda.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5566442

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 16:02:37 2010 No.5567530 >>5567248 This hand of mine glows with an awesome POWER! Its burning grip tells me to defeat you!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 5 18:36:37 2010 No.5568634 >>5566117 I kind of like it. Very Rain in Spain.

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