/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Umineko General Thread.

So for starters, let's have a roll call of the most suspicious people on the island.

Battler, George, Hideyoshi, Jessica, Kyrie, Kinzo, Shannon, Kanon, Kumasawa, Genji, Gohda, Eva, Rosa, Maria, Natsuhi, Krauss, Rudolf, and Kyrie are the first few that come to mind, anyone got any others?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4955974
You... you just named everyone.

[Anonymous No.]

My theory is that Genji and Shkannon are in on it.
Considering Kinzo is dead they had to have known and helped hide that fact.

[Anonymous No.]

You missed Nanjo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4955983

Well done.
Though there are fuckloads more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4955974
It's like fucking clue man... they all fucking did it man... fuck man, fuck!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956006
No doo, in clue they all did it cept for Mr.Green, also it turned out that the butler was actually the host.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4955993
Of course the servants are in on it. The question is, who else?

Episode 2 and 4 show us that Kyrie, Rosa, and Jessica are or can be heavily involved.

[Anonymous No.]

PXRLFIPGDSSTGRXHJAVMYQIWQGUNCMJCIRWDOICCQOGHMOAFAPQRBTLYOVUZOBEQJPKOU

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956037
Crap, that's right, I forgot PXRLFIPGDSSTGRXHJAVMYQIWQGUNCMJCIRWDOICCQOGHMOAFAPQRBTLYOVUZOBEQJPKOU, how could I have so blind?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956035
Rosa is fucking awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956020
> also it turned out that the butler was actually the host.
...Genji = the real Kinzo, calling it now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956103
What purpose does that even serve?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956130
Trolling.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956190

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956190

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956103
That would be epic. All the times he was supposedly locked up in his room, he was actually pretending to be his own servant. And he faked his death so he could play Genji full time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956218
GENZO THEORY GO.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956224
This puts Jessica in the clear. She wasn't lying about Kinzo being alive, he is. In addition, her being shocked that Kinzo killed her mom makes perfect sense, because Kinzo is still alive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956256
Objection. If Kinzo was Genji, Jessica would still be implicated as a troll because she DIDN'T MENTION THAT LITTLE FACT TO BATTLER.

[Anonymous No.]

oh desire~desu

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956270
Feel bad for that guy's mom.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956270
Why? either he's obviously rich and capable of supporting himself, or their obviously rich and capable of supporting him.

[Anonymous No.]

urk >>4956289 was directed at >>4956278

[None !NACK.rrrr. No.]

>>4956270
The portraits look nice at least.

Also, I want that gaap pic.

[Anonymous No.]

-nobody noticed that Kyrie is twice

[Anonymous No.]

Would anyone else watch this?

[None !NACK.rrrr. No.]

>>4956360
never really liked scooby doo, but I'd do it just because of kinzo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956360
Ok Scooby, time to unmask BEATRICHE!

It was... OLD MAN JENKINS?!

[Anonymous No.]

"I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those meddling Stakes!

[Anonymous No.]

Anyone else hoping that Shannon and Kanon will be assholes, and that the Beato persona is actually the good one?

[Anonymous No.]

Servants are involved.
Shannon, Kanon, Shkanon, Kshanon and Genji or what you want in the actions, while Kumasawa knows what's going on but doesn't do anything. She feels safe because of something, so until it's too late she doesn't realise she is going to be killed.
(I believe this is because of her relationship with Beatrice - also, if this is true, it demostrates that Beatrice =/= killer or mastermind, since beatrice should like Kumasawa)

Nanjo is the mastermind or a clueless accomplice. I bet for the first.

Gohda is a cook who deserve a better employer.

Jessica is probably Beatrice (not the killer or the mastermind, rather someone who wants Battler to remind something).

Kinzo is a amount of roasted meat.

Rosa and Kyrie are suspicious, but strangely I don't find Kyrie as mastermind or culprit: if it's not Nanjo + servants it has to be Rosa.

[GORDON FREEMAN !!L41oD04xiQF No.]

>>4956502
Wait, wait, wait. I agree that Jessica is incredibly sketchy, but her being Beatrice?

Episode one is all we need to know that's not the case.

[Anonymous No.]

Unreliable narrator, the story never happened, the island doesn't exist. It was all the dream of a little girl in a coma.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956517
Just when did you start thinking that there was only one Beatrice?

[GORDON FREEMAN !!L41oD04xiQF No.]

>>4956540
Whatever do you mean, Lord Aizen?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956554
UBW - Unlimited Beato Works.

Something about a bone, and a sword.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956517
My theory is that Beatrice is not a killer, or better that 2 Beatrice exists. Before laughing, consider that we already had two in the past (the one Rosa saw and Kumasawa).
First Beatrice is a delusional form, a way to escape a sad reality. She wants Battler to do something, and maybe wants the adults to realise something too.
Most (but not all) the letters come from her, but rather than this or showing to Battler on a terrace under the rain, she doesn't do quite much.

The second Beatrice, on the contrary, is the culprit: she kills and deceives people, and is probably here for te gold (or if not, revenge). She has no problem killing Kumasawa because they aren't related and carries the murder in a ritualistic way for reasons I cannot comprehend.
If they are done to accomplish the Epitaph because this is seen as a way to succeed Kinzo, this leaves out Kyrie and Eva, since they should be smart.

The only thing I cannot comprehend is if in Ep.3 Eva becomes a culprit, or if Beatrice has to change completely her plans because of certain events I don't know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956593
I say multiple Beatrices AND multiple culprits.

Alternatively, the Everybodytrice theory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956614
Natsuhi is a pure woman, stop that. She can be crazy and have Rosa-level parenting skills, but she's a good woman.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956593
I think EP3 is the only episode in which the culprits plan comes together, people knuckle down & solve the epitah.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956593
Yup. All those sketchy things I did were for... uh... love. Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956630
SHE THREW A BABY OFF OF A GODDAMN CLIFF

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956664
Shit happens, shouldn't be playing on the cliff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956664
She didn't throw a baby off a cliff.
.
.
.
She pushed a servant off a cliff who was holding a baby at the time. There's a difference.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956664
All the Ushiromiya women have their flaws. At least Natsuhi tried to atone for it.

[Anonymous No.]

Rudolf is perfectly innocent. The only crime he's guilty of is being fabulous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956593
Time for some delirium: what about Jessica already solved the Epitaph years ago despite not being so smart or a genius.
Genji knows it and so he obeys to her.
She is teorically the head of the family, but dislike this fact. But guess what- Battler will return home.
She thinks of a plan to make Battler reminding something, and also, disgusted by adults plans on the money, she plans to give them a lesson to help them understanding money isn't all. Most of the letters, scratches on Natsuhi, door and maybe (but I believe that they should be a way to communicate something) some symbols are her doing.
Genji carries on her will.

This time I will add Shkanon.
Then Battler comes, Shkanon goes crazy because he sinned. Killing ensues.
The thing that Jessica wants Battler to remember is different from his sin. Maybe a promise, or something else.

A mastermind knows about Shanon=Kanon. Also that he should be Battler, or somehting like this.
Knowing that Battler will come back, plans to get all the gold (or, if culprit is Nanjo, to carry on Kinzo's final will or fuck-just kill all those vultures) and think of a plan.

Why Beatrice's plans aren't always perfect?
Because we have 3 parties rolling around with similar, but not equal, purposes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956678
DOUBLE HOMICIDE AND SHE'S PURE
THE FUCK DOES THAT WORK OUT?
GODDAMN YOU RYUKUSHI

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956682
He fucked a god.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956664
That's why I said she was crazy, but we don't even know if that was real.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956678
Hey wait a minute. In "And Then There Were None", didn't a pregnant maid fall/get pushed off a cliff at some point? And wasn't her name Beatrice?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956696
To be fair most murder mysteries have someone called Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956696
She wasn't pregnant and she was killed in her sleep by some kind of drug and I'm p sure Mrs. Roger's first name wasn't Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956696
I think she committed suicide because of her employer. But yeah, she was supposedly pregnant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956696
Actually, that's the current theory. Connected with Rosa's version of events, it makes sense.

Coming off of that is the concept that either Jessica is that meido's child, or, Jessica was Asumu's babby.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956692
Is that a crime?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956708
What if we change things a bit, Natsuhi was never at the cliff it was actually the same scene with Beato "slipping" in front of Rosa.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956717
Switching dead babies around has to be, no one would ever know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956696
Her name was Ethel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956718
Yeah, the two stories are one and the same.

Natsuhi is nutty, so the "baby" could have never existed, or at least wasn't out yet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956683
Writing these theory it comes in my mind that Rosa can't be the mastermind: she wouldn't carry Maria with herself, even while being Mother of the Year 1986.

However, when she survives (ep 2), different things comes around. Maybe coming to island makes her realise something and then forces her to think of a quick plan.
This would make ep 2 the most difficult one since instead of 3 parties we would have 4.

Now, recollecting previous ideas, who could be the mastermind? Someone who knows Battler's sin, in order to convince/trick Shkanon. How can culprit know sin? If it was a broken promise there would be no way, so I will go for an anagraphic one. Who can get access to these things? Someone be able to, like Nanjo (who has a sick family, can get dental records, is friend of Kinzo and can get all the money if family fail in some circumstances like failing Kinzo's test or...dieing), or someone directly involved, like Kyrie (who leaves her only known direct son, Ange, out of this and could secretly hate all the family).

Hide and Eva can't have access to Battler's sin, or Shkanon identity.
George could for the latter, bu has no reason to kill his parents.
Rudolf, Krauss and Natsuhi are too busy growing a brain.

[Anonymous No.]

BATTLER IS ACTUALLY KINZO

Remember how Kinzo trapped Beatrice's soul in a Homunculus and she did not have any of her memories while inside of it?

That's Battler, only he contains Kinzo's soul.

Do you really think Kinzo, of all people would just accept death? Fuck no, he made a homunculus and transfered his soul to it. That is also why there is a mystery surrounding Battler's birth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956718
Given Kinzo's reaction, that occurred after Beatrice's death. Krauss was off the island on a business trip and Rosa was on trip with her friends.

When Beatrice died, Rosa was being tutored. So I guess that was during the school year.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956732
>implying magic exists

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956733
I just don't know why we got that backstory with Natsuhi, when apart from that bit of blue text in EP4 it was never even hinted that she had a "son".

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956734
>implying it doesn't

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956517
wat

E1 has some of the strongest implications of Jessica being involved if nothing else. The way she changes sides and starts calling the culprit Beatrice, as well as the whole circlejerk around Kanon in the boiler room, all that with Natsuhi's approval was way too suspicious, and if you take in account Kanon is the culprit there at like 85%, there you go.

[GORDON FREEMAN !!L41oD04xiQF No.]

>>4956757
Oh, her being sketchy, I believe in. Hell, I wrote quite a few copy-pastas to that effect.

But when Beatrice appears, Jessica is right behind Battler, so, obviously, Jessica can't be Beatrice.

Well, unless of course that more than one Beatrice theory holds any water.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956763
Isn't that just in the tea party though?

The only time Battler actually sees Beatrice on the board is EP4.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956733
>Rosa was on a trip with her friends
Am I the only one who thinks this is weird? I really think Rosa was the mother of the baby.
Her or Kyrie.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956768
Dammit, go back and reread the end of Episode 1.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956769
Well, Kyrie is the mother of Battler.
I think the issue and tragedy of Umineko at least in terms of Kyrie lies in her thinking the opposite. Say that Asumu's baby is on the island, I could see Kyrie and said baby cooperating with each other, both(mistakenly so) believing each other to be kin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956768
Doubletricefag here, nope, detective Battler sees Beato.

But.... well.... the dialogue and nature of episode 4 give a ton of props to the Doubletrice theory, picture related.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956776
OK, slipped. Asumu's, but that wouldn't make sense, if Asumu had given birth normally, Battler would be her son, but she didn't, so... ok, it's a mess. My bet goes for Rosa, since the 'travel' excuse is prewtty typical for teenage mothers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956788
She was traveling when Natsuhi was given that kid right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956788
But there's no foreshadowing for Rosa having a baby other than Maria. You do need foreshadowing for that kind of thing, that's why if the second Battler is alive, the only one it can be is either Shannon or Jessica, with leanings towards Jessica merely out of age.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956785
Exactly.
End of Ep.1 the Beatrice we see is the culprit. Note that, differently from ep. 4 we don't see her as clearly as in the other episode.

In Ep 4 we see that: she is blonde and young (ok, silly argument, but hey- if she can alter appearance and hair colour we can just resign and admit magic exists. Wigs? No hints provided). Knows Battler and so on.
She is Beatrice, dammit.
Now, it should be useful to know what happens exactly AFTER this encounter.
Jessica killed with a pillow? Ok, then she was treatened by the culprit.
Suicide? can be.

[Anonymous No.]

Wasn't Jessica ruled out as Beatrice in Episode 6 with the given monologue?

[Anonymous No.]

Is the first twilight really completely random?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956811
Nope. The monologue was just Shkanontrice.
However, Beato has a flashback in episode 6, and that flashback really only applies to Shannon, not to Jessica.
>>4956802
Actually, that picture explains the nature of Jessica's death quite well if you'll give me some wiggle room. Note how one Beatrice "takes over" while putting the other one to rest?
Well, I gurantee you'll get some rest once you get a shotgun blast to the face. But anywho, yeah, that picture shows one Beato fail, and the other Beato plays clean-up.(Making the crime scene confusing to Battler and what not)

[Anonymous No.]

...Hey, Ryukushi didn't make any Shakespeare reference yet. And when it comes to witches, there is a certain Scottish play...

...Battler was RIPPED from Asumu, not exactly 'born'.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4955994
C-sections count as giving birth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956834
I WAS FROM MY MOTHER'S WOMB UNTIMELY RIPPED

[Anonymous No.]

Kinzo = Beatrice
someone can inherit his name like episode 4 and it bypasses the red text this explains the final riddle in ep4. Nanjo is of course an accomplice so is Genji as seen in the start of ep1. Natsuhi is getting trolled. In ep5 Battler saw the real Kinzo when he was with Erika solving the epitaph.
Kinzo just wanted to be recognised for something great before he died so he created the murder. He wrote the letters in the bottles as well. It is the same motivations as "And Then There Were None". This explains why Beatrice actually wants Battler to figure out the mystery while not just telling him at the same time. It is stated that Kinzo was a magician called Goldsmith that had Beatrice serve him, which is a hint that Beatrice is one of his personas.
There are a lot of ways Battler could have sinned against Kinzo. Kinzo would wander around the island sometimes, he saw Battler being a loudmouth and lost faith in his family or heard Battler say something that offended him.

[Anonymous No.]

>I gurantee you'll get some rest once you get a shotgun blast to the face

Convinced me in about 0.2 seconds. No pillow nor suicide, just a magical, shining, solid bullet that can be seen even without love.
One less Beatrice around the mansion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956856

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdhRwADrkYA&annotation_id=annotation_766119&feature=iv

WHEN WE THREE SHALL MEET AGAIN

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956832
Damn, that actually makes a bit of sense. Course, the tricky part of it is that Jessica knew how she was gonna die before she did.

Although, I suppose you could argue Jessica was expecting failure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956872
Oh god wat

[Anonymous No.]

Aren't you tired of always discussing the same shit all the time?
Always the same retarded shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956902
Aren't you tired of talking about Touhou all the time?

Always the same retarded hats...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956902

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956898
What is love, oddly fitting, ain't it?

[Anonymous No.]

Aren't you tired of talking about Tsukihime all the time?

Always the same retarded manfaces...

[Anonymous No.]

My theory is that Rudolf is a motherfucking PIMP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4955974
I'd love to release my semen in Kyrie's womb, if you know what I mean...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956921
It's fascinating how there are two women known whom he hit on, one of them being present in the story as his WIFE, and it's still obvious that he is a pimp.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956940
The dude is the most FABULOUS motherfucker in the game, even outdoing Ronove.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956921
Manly tears.

[Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 No.]

>>4956921

>doubles guy.jpg

Cool murders, guys

but look at my doubles

[Anonymous No.]

>>4956872
>Comments

[Anonymous No.]

You know, we all read "Azumu this", "Azumu that", but she hasn't appeared on-screen, right?

Man, I'm getting a Satoshi vibe here...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957010
Asumu is fuckton important.

Mainly because of her babby switching shannonigans.

[Anonymous No.]

Am I the only one who still thinks that the other 'Battler' is somehow present on the island, without being one of the known family?

I think it's *possible* to work around most of the red and still have such a person exist, depending on Erika's existance, Shkanon, etc. whatever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957010
I'm fairly certain Rifyu's work is canon

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957012
so what? Battler is Kyrie's, Jessica's Azumu's and Natsuhi's baby died/was killed?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957018
there HAS to be a red somewhere about people with the same name...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957020
what is that strip about?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957027

Well, when the discussion centers around Battler's parentage, I believe it was confirmed that there is a "Ushiromiya Battler" who was born from Asumu. It's just not the one we know, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957034
nope, Battler wasn't able to sy in red that Asumu was his mother.

Ange, however, confirmed Battler as Rudolph's son, so the discussion ended then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957022
Not quite.

My theory?

Jessica is Asumu's baby, who was given to Natsuhi. Battler Ushiromiya was killed when she became Jessica Ushiromiya.

Kyrie thinks Jessica is her baby, but she's not, Battler is her baby.

Now why there exists two women who name their child "Battler", that is the greatest mystery of them all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957051
believe me "Battler" Ushiromiya stands for something bigger than just a name. It's like Kinzo and Rudolph knew Battler would have a greater-than-thou destiny and called him like that as the "fighter" representing the Ushiromiya bloodline

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957051
>Ushiromiya was killed when she became Jessica Ushiromiya
I think this is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, one of the dumbest ideas I've seen so far in Umineko threads.
I also think that it'll end up being correct. Goddamnit, Ryukushi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957051
>Jessica is Asumu's baby
It'd be pretty fucked up if this is true. Too much on Natsuhi's side as it is.

There were already some hints that Jessica is really Natsuhi's though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957048

But he is able to say...well, pic related.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957086

Anyways, continuing on from here, I don't think it's possible that this 2nd Battler just disappeared. There's too much ado about it.

It's either...
1. Jessica.
2-3. Shannon, Kanon, Shkanon
4. Mystery person X, who weaves around the red text by virtue of sharing Battler's name part of the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957082
Well, "hints"?

No, it's stated at the beginning by Battler that she's the daughter of Natsuhi and Krauss. Battler also states that Kanon is a guy and not... Shannon. Obviously there's tons of stuff to support Jessica being Natsuhi's daughter... that's one of the givens! Course, if we just went by the givens it was all done by magic and bathing suit wearing perverts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957102
A mystery person X would be a cope out.

Shkanon being it would be excessively sillly.

Shkanon: Battler... I'm Shannon! And Kanon! And Beatrice! And Battler!

Not that it being silly makes it any less likely.

[Anonymous No.]

I did it!

[Anonymous No.]

Asumu's son is named Battler. This son probably died in miscarriage, but some people still think he is alive somewhere.

The Battler we know, whoever birthed him, is Kinzo's grandson.
>No one except Kinzo's grandchild Battler is qualified to be an opponent

[Anonymous No.]

Mystery person X doesn't even remotely work out. Look at the source material. The point of "And then there were none" was to get you to believe in a mystery person X, a curse, or whatever when in fact there was a perfectly logical explanation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957116

I don't think it would be a cop out, necessarily. It would likely weave together the events with Natsuhi's baby 19 years ago, the Beatrice Rosa gets killed 19 years ago, Asumu's role in everything, etc.

Also, to me, it just seems like no matter what theories are proposed that there's some hole there that we need an external source to fill.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957133
The culprit being a Battler we've never seen is just plain cheap. Hell, it goes against Knox too, has to be introduced in the early part of the story.

THE CHARACTER, not THE NAME.

[Anonymous No.]

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[Anonymous No.]

>>4957128

I'm not necessarily saying it's the only way things work out, as I said, it's probably just as, if not more, likely that Battler-2 is dead or Jessica or Kanon or Shanon.

I'm just trying not to completely exclude the thought along with thinking along other lines.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957082
>>4957086
>>4957127

well, fuck...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957104
>No, it's stated at the beginning by Battler
I mean there are other hints than Battler's speculations in both Episode 1 and 6. If the game can be solved from only the first four arcs, then Jessica's birth circumstances aren't an issue like Battler's.

[Anonymous No.]

Takano is the culprit....somehow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957160
Battler 2 being dead is a bit of an exercise in pointlessness, and in fact, goes against Beatrice.

Beato's supposed to know everything relevant to the gameboard, Battler 2.0 simply being DEAD hardly affects the board. Beatrice knows about the Battler issue because it's critical, I wager.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957155

We never directly see him, but it's not like clues weren't presented. As Battler himself suggests in ep5, his dad had something to tell him 'that would likely result in his death'. This points us to something involving Battler's birth. It happens as early as episode 1.

Also, the whole human-Beatrice and Natsuhi's baby incidents as well as the whole 'Battler wasn't born from Asumu' scenes are worthless if the fact that there was a 2nd Battler is irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957192

I agree with you, I'm just saying that the possibility for Battler-2 to be a red herring does, indeed, exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957175
With Jessica you have time. She was born in the same year as the Kuwadorian stopped taking deliveries. And she's Battler age. In episode 4 we learn of there being two Battlers, so I'd say there's enough to have Jessica be a candidate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957192
This doesn't mean she knows all there is about the two Battlers. What she does know would be derived from Rudolf, since he clearly wants to talk about it for some reason.

It was probably just Rudolf switching the two babies, Asumu's dead one for Kyrie's living one, thus why he'll "probably be killed" if he admits to it. Knowing Kyrie, he could mean that literally, or maybe he means she's just going to be very mad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957212

IIRC it specifically mentions him switching to a dead serious tone when he mentions that. I don't think he's talking figuratively.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957128
That's fine.

I'm arguing the point that there must be a certain logic to the actions present. The culprit is acting according to the epitaph and leaving no corpses behind for a reason. That reason is to convince people of a Witch's Curse on the island. The most likely culprit under this assumption is Kinzo. It works since this solidifies the legend of Kinzo and kills a bunch of vultures / incompetents.

Money as a motive is weak for the true culprit since it is very hard to spend it if you are supposed to be dead, which looking at the last several games, only once did someone make it out alive.

The question then is, how is Kinzo killing people? Is it via servants? Does Kinzo = Genji?

I honestly find the Kinzo = Genji theory much more appealing than dancing around the red making Shannon = Kannon or crow barring X into there and losing sight of the big picture (although it is pretty ridiculous).

[Anonymous No.]

* victims (instead of corpses)

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957202
So even if Jessica is Battler-2, why would that matter?

Not trying to refute the thought, I just want to keep thinking along these lines for why it would affect their behavior and whatnot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957230
Genji = Kinzo is still dancing around the red.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957228
He is talking figuratively, but he knows how much fucked up Kyrie is about this and that this would be the end of his marriage/cause evenm more problems with his son.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957212
I doubt that. She used the Battler paradox to logicbomb Battler out of action for awhile, so I think Beatrice would know about the whole thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957250

Ok, so even that point aside. Why is he trying to tell Battler now? What does he have to gain at present?

For that matter, why would he switch the babies in the first place? Just loves Asumu more?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957263
And what if she knows the hole thing because Rudolf knows the whole thing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957244
Jessica falls for Battler. Dismisses the whole 'first cousin' thing and still thinks they can be happy.

Somehow discovers that they're actually brother and sister. So now she has one of three choices.

1. Kill herself.
2. Kill Battler
3. Kill everyone else in the family who may know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957267
Rudolf obviously knows *something*, it's a shame we never get to hear what specifically he does.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957265
Maybe he saw the miscarriage and couldn't bear to have Asumu know and did it in the heat of the moment? Maybe at that time he did love Asumu more, or maybe she was expected to be his wife more by the family. There are a lot of reasons it could be, but it's not like we really need to explain it. It does give a good explanation as to why he would be in deep shit if he elaborated on Battler's birth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957276
KILL EVERYONE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957265
He HAD to tell him, basically because he wants to start a relationship from zero.
OR my theory for this, Rudolf wasn't involved in the whole thing, instead, the Ushiromiyas with Asumu's family were the ones who did the whole thing (troubles with the sumaderas and all that) and since the grandfather died recently, he probably left it in his will. A bit far fetched but would be good for Rudolf's innocency.
>>4957267
I really think Kyrie found up on her own, she has some reallly cunning contacts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957244
Oh, well, it would explain her actions, and her cooperation with Kyrie in episode 4. Jessica has always been a source of much frustration because of her fantasy scenes, which portray her in a very heroic light, and her mystery scenes, which from time to time show her blatantly lying. If she was the second Battler, perhaps she was manipulated into doing what she does by her "mother", Kyrie.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957276
I guess that's possible, but it seems a little shaky. She saw Battler 6 years ago, they were in their low teens and it was for 2 days. Just find it hard to believe such obsessive love would happen in that timespan.

And even if that's the case, what's the sin? Leaving the family? Being her brother?

Because of his sin, everyone dies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957308
Hmm, certainly seems possible. So that would paint one possible 'faction' of the family as Kyrie and Jessica, who are motivated by what happened regarding her birth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957311
I agree with you,(I'm the post above you).

But what's rather funny is that Shannon is obsessively in love with Battler, and looking back on it, what, did she meet him for a day or two? Ryukushicakes is silly.

[Anonymous No.]

She saw Battler 6 years ago, they were in their low teens and it was for 2 days. Just find it hard to believe such obsessive love would happen in that timespan.

She's a sheltered princess who lives on an island where the only other male her age is an emotionally withdrawn servant. She hates the idea of being the next family head and would rather be free, and her feelings towards Battler are probably because he did get free of the family, and could perhaps be the key for her getting free too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957335
Hmm? Shannon's obsessively in love with him? I thought that was just another far-out theory. Is that supported in ep6 or something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957349
By Shannon, I mean the entity known as Shkanontrice.
>>4957339
Stop it! Stop it with your Jessitrice shipper bullshit! Jessica IS involved most likely, but I think the answer is a BIT more complicated than WELL JESSICA REALLY LIKES BATTLER'S PENIS

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957349
George recalled that Shannon used to show a lot of interest in Battler 6 years ago, and he was envious of Battler because of that. Other than that she gave Battler a chance to grab her tits.

And in Episode 5, she's more concerned about Battler's safety when escaping Kinzo's study than what happened to George. (But then there's a chance it was all a setup.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957349
Beato calls someone "mother" who talked to Battler in the past, and Battler was telling her what kind of girl he liked. He said he liked big breasted blond glamorous girls, and for personality he likes someone easy-going, like Jessica.

This is taken as a memory of the person who created Beato and thus is her "mother." She also calls Battler her father in the episode.

Because Jessica is referred to in the first person, instead of "you" or anything, it has been taken to be Shannon's flashback. Although people have said it's just Jessica in disguise. Then there's a whole passage about loving Battler and making Beatrice:
...Beatrice.
Listen carefully.
I will turn over my love for Battler to you.
Become the woman Battler desires.

I will give you the blonde hair he desires.
I will give you the blue eyes he desires.
I will give you the new personality he desires.
And... In place of me, love him.
And if possible, be loved by him.

I can no longer love him.
The feelings I could not obtain...the feelings I could not bear...please obtain them.

From this day forward, you are no longer the phantom of Rokkenjima who only plays tricks.
From this day forward, you are the ruler of Rokkenjima, and the one who waits for him to return until he fulfills his promise.

From this day forward, you will inherit that in my place.
Thus, from this day forward, you are no longer me.

I will push all of my suffering on to you... Please forgive me for being the only one to become happy.

From this day forward, you have the qualifications to detest everything.
You are the Golden Witch, Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957355
Ep6 reveals that Jessica x Kanon is fake.
If she doesn't like Kanon, then who is the guy that she's talking about who is at least 1km from the beach?

[Anonymous No.]

And someday.
Destroy everything, revive everything.
...Bless all lovers.

At that time.
...For both you and I to find happiness together...I will be wishing for from the bottom of my heart.

From this day on, you are not me.
From this day on, I am not you.
We will divide one soul, and share.
That naturally won't fill up one soul, but. (? not 100% sure about this line)
Surely it will allow (us/you/me? no subject defined) to see more dreams than a person.
May we be blessed...
My cute Beatrice...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957372
Shannonlanondingdong needs to get her priorities straight.

I'LL SPREAD LOVE
BY KILLING
EVERYONE!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957355
...ah.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the theories that paint anyone falling dramatically in love with Battler 6 years back.

A lot of it seems to rely on Battler's white pony statement, but I don't think that statement in and of itself is related to the sin he committed. I think it helps to explain whatever sin he did commit though, as it sets him up as someone who talked big and made outlandish promises.

<<COMPLETELY UNRELATED>>

Do we know how Asumu died? It was 6 years ago...but it seems very odd we know nothing about the circumstances.

If it happened under strange circumstances, that gives Battler-2 a motive against the family for leading to the death of her birth mother.

[GORDON FREEMAN !!L41oD04xiQF No.]

>>4957375
Within one Kilometers, you mean.
And perhaps. But then again, perhaps not. All I know is that the Beato in episode 6 is Shannon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957372
>Because Jessica is referred to in the first person, instead of "you" or anything,
Derp I mean third person

[Anonymous No.]

Who is Kinzo's wife?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957372
Oh wow. I...need to think things over again then, it seems.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957402
Her name is never provided, so she's just a very minor character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957390
Well, my theory is that Kyrie and Jessica done fucked up. They think they are related.
They're not. Rather hilariously tragic. Remember, Piece Battler thinks he's Asumu's son. If Piece Battler 2 exists, it's logical to assume that PB2 thinks that PB2 is Kyrie's spawn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957372
Does Erika see this happen or is it in a fantasy scene?

[Anonymous No.]

I thought it was established that Jessica is doing it for the lulz?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957428
Yeah that's a believable explanation. I could see that definitely being the case.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957433
Jessica is pure, Kanon is pure, Shannon is a lying whore(and not Kanon), shut up and stop making disingenous assertions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957433
While completely amusing that's a pretty weak explanation for mass-murder and closed rooms.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

So, ok.

If we put the 'Shannon-Beatrice' thing just posted from ep6 and the Jessica-Kyrie teamup suggestion together, we start to get some real culprits.

So I'm also guessing they have different targets in mind. I don't see any reason why Jessica and Kyrie would do the killings ritualistically, whereas Shannon and whoever she ended up working with would, for the illusion of Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

Jessitrice pretty much confirmed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957483
How canon is the manga compared to the games?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957476
If that's the case then why were Kyrie and Jessica in particular so keen about getting Battler to believe in Beatrice?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957483
Even with Kanon's silhouette right there? No offense, but this is getting kinda old.
>>4957489
Pretty close, the artists know the core of the story from R07, and provide extra hints through their own interpretation.

[Anonymous No.]

My top suspicious are
Kyrie and Rudolf - for every episode (cept maybe 3)
Rosa - for episode 2
Genji - for every episode
Eva and Hideyoshi - mostly just for episode 3
Battler - maybe, possibly culprit in EP5. Other episodes, not so much,

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957489
At the same level since R07 is the one doing the scripts for the manga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957390
She was killed by magical means, the culprit was a witch and the method a magical form of magic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957495
That's...a very good question. I remember them doing it in ep4, but do they do it in others as well?

I seem to remember Kyrie doing the opposite in either 1 or 2, when she's talking about flipping the chessboard with Battler, though I could be mistaken.

Maybe something causes their plans to change dramatically in 4. Not sure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957504
Heh. But really, I wonder if that's relevant to anything or not. It seems weird that we know more about a human Beatrice who is declared in red to be DEAD than Battler's mom who is definitely important in some way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957504
I'm onto you, Beatrice. You won't get me that easily.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957501
I think Battler was throwing out himself as the culprit so that he could get another game going. He knew the truth at that point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957522
Nothing get's past you now does it?

[Anonymous No.]

>EP 7 comes out
>Shkanon is disproved
>Jessica and Kyrie are confirmed innocent
>Nanjo is confirmed to be his own granddaughter
>You realize it's useless, it's all useless

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957579
jessica confirmed for bitch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957568

Don't crush my hopes for an ultra angst filled ending where Battler as the culprit is confirmed.


SHIT WOULD BE AWESOME.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957568
He was.

Although, perhaps "Battler" was the culprit, ehehehehe...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957599
That'd be retarded. That's like the stockiest of all stock TWEESTS.

I do like the who Kyrie-Jessica thing, it always DID bothered me how they teamed up in episode 4.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957600
>>4957599
Hey I'm still pondering Battler-2 being the culprit so, that's...kind of close.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957610
So wait.

Kanon is Shannon is Beatrice
Jessica is Battler
Nanjo is his own grandaughter


I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE ANYMORE

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957610

It really does explain that quite well.

[None !NACK.rrrr. No.]

>>4957622
Kinzo is genji

[Anonymous No.]

So, what about the bomb? Why? How? Who?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957659
Because Kinzo's a dick.

The servants set it off failing the epitagh being solved, and actually, I wager, it goes off regardless. See episode 5.

Kinzo, his servants, specifically Shannon because she's fucking crazy.

[Anonymous No.]

>/jp/ still hasn't realized I'm the culprit

Keikaku doori~

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957680
B-but...best mom ever...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957659
Bomb = gas leak

The whole mansion is filling with gas. The smell of Kinzo's corpse in the furnace masks the smell, and Hideyoshi and Rudolf are the only smokers, and thus the only accidental triggers of an explosion, unless of course they're in on it.

I mean, did anyone think it was suspicious that people went immediately to the canned goods and avoided making anything that would need a cooker?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957674
Eh...I guess it could be that simple, but if that's the case, the servants have no motive to do anything, as they know everyone's dead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957680
Rosa, your ass is dead from the get go most of the time. You fail at being a mastermind.

[Anonymous No.]

Theory: when you get to the golden land, you're supposed to stay there. It's the end of the journey after all. If you stay there you won't be in radius for bomb. See Eva ep3.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957695

The guest house isn't safe either, is it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957719
That'd make sense. Would explain why it appears to contain a bed and whatnot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957726
It seems like nobody is in the guesthouse at the end of every episode anyway. Maybe it IS safe and because nobody is ever there they always die.

Episode 1: all in front of the portrait
Episode 2: Battler and Genji in mansion, Rosa god knows where
Episode 3: Everyone in the mansion
Episode 4: Battler near the portrait

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957719
Still fucking stupid. Not the theory, the theory is solid, the fact that you have to stay in a bomb shelter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957742
Well if Rosa's fantasy scene even closely resembles reality, she and Maria would be a fair distance from the mansion.

[Anonymous No.]

>4957726
It could be, but no one ever stays there. Natural instinct seems to be for everyone to stick together in the mansion for security reasons as people get picked off one by one.
Perhaps the murderer intended it that way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957742
ep5, Battler is near the well that leads to Kuwadorian when Beatrice gives her red about killing him. Though I suppose that one doesn't have to be the bomb.

[Anonymous No.]

did we ever get an organized summary of EP6?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957764
I would kill for one.

But then, no Anon, you were the murderer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957372
>>4957379

Oh, my god...

I... I don't even...

Does this mean Jessica's split personality is Beatrice?

Or does this mean Asumu's dead son/daughter is Beatrice?

Maybe that's it... the killer is Battler's long lost brother Battler.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957775
Fist-fight atop MetalGear too much?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957775
This isn't new, you know...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957779
Worked for Higurashi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957775
Battler-2, hooray.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957779
TOO MUCH?
FUCK NO YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT TOO MUCH

[Anonymous No.]

GUYS GUYS GUYS

THE THEME SONG FOR K1'S FIGHT AGAINST RENA IS CALLED GEKKA NO DUELIST

TRANSLATES TO DUELISTS UNDER THE...................... MOON!

COINCEDENCE? I DON'T THINK SO!

[Anonymous No.]

What is this I don't even.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957798
Fascinating, nerd.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957816
Why so tsun tsun?

[Anonymous No.]

You'll never get me lucky golds!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957816
Go back to bed, Suigin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957771
It's more like this:
-Battler we are the wedding
-No, I am not wanting this wedding
-Battler, you are the closed room
-No, let me out of this closed room
-Kanon and Shannon, you are the battle
-George and Jessica too
-Beato and Battler are the join
-Erika, all the aunts are the dead and so is Battler and Maria
-Are they really the dead?
-No, maybe they are not the dead.
-Battler, you are the logic error
-No Erika, the aunt is living and save me
-No, Battler, I killed the aunts. You are the logic error.
-Uooooo
-Battler, we are the wedding
-No, I am not wanting this wedding
-Beato, you are troll
-Erika, I am crash your wedding
-Beatoriiiicheeeee!
-Erikaaaaaaaaaa!
-Erika, the Kanon is save Battler
-That's impossible! The Battler is unsaveable!
-Erika, the Kanon is definitely save Battler
-Beato, I cannot solve this, but I am the 18th person
-No, Erika, you are the 17.

The end.

[Anonymous No.]

This thread was highly productive. I feel like we managed to touch on some of the core mysteries at least, instead of just degenerating into SHKANON NO SHKANON arguing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957798
MOON

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957834
DAT ENGRISH

[Anonymous No.]

Kanon is the other Battler.
He is the one who said he would come back to Shannon.
That is why the red-haired Battler don't remember saying it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957835
Well, I like that we finally got a better motive for Jessica's actions than LOLITROLLU or Battler RABU.

And I do think we could be onto something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957850
Dem moon metaphors....

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957835
Shakugan no Shkannon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957860
Yeah, definitely. I think it's got a really strong backing.

[Anonymous No.]

KANON BEING A CANNON ISN'T CANON

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957834
Thanks Anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957876
I think canon that Kanon did not even use a canon! Whether for Kanon's sake or just for canon's sake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957876
I guess you could say in EP6 Battler got... Kanonized.

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Anonymous No.]

Everyone says that Battler's in the afterlife.

I object.

Gingers don't have souls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957775
I've been saying this forever. Battler is not the Actual Battler since he is not born from Asumu right? So if you beleive that Kanon should be rescuing the other Battler. Who in this case is Jessica.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957904
This IS true...I posit that Battler dies his hair.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957913
Not being born from Asumu doesn't make him "not the actual Battler".

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957934
I claim it does

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957913
How does this explain how Rudolf got down on his knees and cried that Battler-kun was dead? Does he expect Erika not to even notice it's Jessica in the room?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957944
Why? He is the one everyone knows as Battler, he just has a different mother. Mothers don't even matter to the Ushiromiya family.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957934
Regardless, it does make him another Battler, meaning there's two Battlers around. Which one is the 'actual' one is irrelevant. We know one is our detective in 1-4.

Battler could, in theory, be used to refer to either. Ushiromiya Battler too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957949
Doesn't matter. The Battler Beatrice was referring to was born from Asumu. The only reason he's still there is because of an unchallenged blue truth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957952
But I don't think what you think Beato is saying with 'all names refer to the actual people' is what she really means. Because Erika tries to say Kanon's name is actually George, legally. Who then is the 'actual' George, if they both legally have that name? In theory, you could give anyone any name you like and say they actually have that name, so they are the actual person, or it could refer to them, so the red doesn't matter to you at all. It completely invalidates it.

I propose it is who the reader is actually supposed to think of when they think 'George' who is the 'actual George.' In other words, it's supposed to say "This isn't some wordplay where I could be referring to someone else other than the creepy virgin guy."

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957962
That's silly. You propose that Battler isn't even Kinzo's grandson, and Beato is just letting him get away with it even though the only qualified opponent is him? Battler is the one who sinned to Beato. The Battler we know is the Battler Beato knew 6 years ago, and that is why he is her true opponent. The sin is central to this
>Because of your sin, people die.
In terms of Beato's game, he's more of an actual Battler than anyone else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957970
Yeah, yeah. Episode 6 Battler is Battler.

However, I do think the second Battler point is substanial.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957975
He can still be Rudolf's son. This theory just means the Rudolf was a bigger player than we thought.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957970
>Creepy virgin guy

Yeah, that Kanon kid needs to get laid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957990
Yeah sorry if I worded it weird, this post is what I intended to say.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4957998
I have been laid on many times. Because, we are furniture.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958009
Shut up and hold my coffee.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958010
Please excuse me when I say that coffee is unfitting for the masters. Maybe you would like me to replace it with some tea. Rosa-sama and Kyrie-sama have brought some nice tea.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958009
Go back to having wacky lesbian shenanigans with Jessica, Kanon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958018
Fine, hold my TEA then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958023

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958009
I laughed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958027
Hey what's that sort of look fo--*BANG*
...
...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958027
FUCKING BITCH

THAT'S IT

YOU'RE GOING BACK TO IKEA

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958027
>Shannonseesyourpenis.jpg

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958103
Pimpcane beatrice is the best beatrice

[Anonymous No.]

So... wait.

Is Doubletrice old and busted, and is this new theory the new hotness?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958257

What new theory? Everything I see here is just the same things repeated constantly.

Except Genji/Kinzo. That's fairly awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958257
I wouldn't say that.

For one, while the idea of Jessica being the second Battler is interesting, remember, it doesn't account for her relationship with Shkanon like Doubletrice does. With Doubletrice, you can have Jessica not notice that Shkanontrice are one and the same, because she's in on the delusion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958282
That's been on tvtropes for like, ever, man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958297
OK ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
SHE'S EITHER GOTTA BE BATTLER 2.0 OR BEATRICE

SHE CAN'T BE BOTH, THAT'S FREAKING RETARDED.

PICK ONE

[Anonymous No.]

Umineko: Everyone is everyone else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4958327

Battler 2.0 isn't an assumed identity though, it's just who she was born as. Dressing up like Beatrice is a conscious action. Difference there.

[Anonymous No.]

these are my fav threads

Kyrie is Battler's momma, but she doesn't know.

That letter - become the girl he desires sounds like something someone who is dying is writing. (might be a stretch)

I can no longer love him.
The feelings I could not obtain...the feelings I could not bear...please obtain them.

smells like butthurt, also someone obv close to the island.

i forget where im going.

[Anonymous No.]

Battler is trippin'
THE END

[Anonymous No.]

>>4960635
lol