Beatrice's words at the end of EP 4 are 私は誰？ not 私は何？ There, I just disproved the BOMB theory.

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Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:15:51 2010 No.4932096 [Reply] [Original]

Beatrice's words at the end of EP 4 are 私は誰？ not 私は何？

There, I just disproved the BOMB theory.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:18:51 2010 No.4932107 ambiguous language is ambiguous

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:18:51 2010 No.4932117 >>4932096 everyone is dead tho. So "who"ever the Beatrice that murdered Battler is is not Human. THEORY LIVES

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:20:51 2010 No.4932125 >>4932096 My solution? They're all guilty. Like in Clue. Well, not ALL of them, but most everyone with a vagina besides Eva.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:20:51 2010 No.4932128 Kinzo considered the bomb to be the resurrection of his long-dead mistress Beatrice. Therefore, since Kinzo considered it to be a person, and Kinzo is the bomb's creator "who am I?" is appropriate. In other words, Kinzo is completely batshit insane.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:21:51 2010 No.4932137 >>4932128 Great! So that makes him like EVERY OTHER PERSON ON THE GODDAMN ISLAND.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:22:51 2010 No.4932150 >>4932128 Note that Rokkenjima is a volcanic island. For you to build the foundation for the mansion and the guesthouse in volcanic rock you would legitimately explosives to make it. Same Krauss's "island resort project"

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:25:51 2010 No.4932163 >>4932125 I can see Rosa, Kumasawa, Jessica, Kyrie, and Shannon, but why do you blame Natsuhi?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:26:51 2010 No.4932172 >>4932128 sorry, can you make the music louder?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:26:51 2010 No.4932173 >>4932163 No Maria? She's definitely at least an accomplice.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:27:51 2010 No.4932177 >>4932163 For making my dick so hard. She's the one to blame.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:27:51 2010 No.4932179 >>4932163 Because she can see dead people?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:28:51 2010 No.4932186 >>4932173 Battler sinned against Maria when he promised to return to play with her every year this caused the women and Kinzo to simultaneously dress up as Beatrice to cheer Maria up.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:31:51 2010 No.4932201 >>4932186 ....So where does the killing come in?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:31:51 2010 No.4932202 >>4932128 It actually isn't appropriate at all, but knowing Ryukishi he'll pull some stupid shit like that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:31:51 2010 No.4932205 >>4932186 That is disturbingly plausible.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:32:51 2010 No.4932207 >>4932186 I wouldn't put it past them

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:33:51 2010 No.4932214 >>4932201 Each Beatrice has a different motive. Some just want to cheer Maria up. Others want to revive Kinzo. Others want to create a mystery for Battler to solve. And some of them convince people to fake their deaths.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:34:51 2010 No.4932218 bomb theory is 90% confirmed in EP6, are you all just trolling.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:35:51 2010 No.4932224 >>4932218 Not everybody knows japanese. Nice spoilertags there by the way.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:35:51 2010 No.4932229 >>4932214 I like the "everyone is Beatrice" theories. They're fun.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:36:51 2010 No.4932233 I liked Doubletrice because of Metal Gear Seacats.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:37:51 2010 No.4932237 >>4932229 Well, the two big ones on here already have multiple people being Beato, so why not go that one step beyond and make EVERYONE Beatrice?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:40:51 2010 No.4932252 >>4932233 Metal Gear Seakats doesn't need Doubletrice. It just needs a fist fight at the end.

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:41:51 2010 No.4932258

bomb theory is 90% confirmed in EP6, are you all just trolling

Confirmed by an stupid white text on the character page. Which doesn't even say what type of explosion it was. And on the page of a character who doesn"t exist. Yeah, it's reliable, really.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:43:51 2010 No.4932267 >>4932237 Battler = Beatrice. Battler = DID. Shkannon = fake hint for the reader. Fixed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:44:51 2010 No.4932268 >>4932258 There's some kind of ROCKS FALL EVERYONE DIES switch at the end. An explosion is the most plausible. Still, not like Kinzo rigged a bomb that will only not go off if Battler sticks his penis in Shannon/Kanon/Jessica/Rosa's vagina.

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:45:51 2010 No.4932274

Everyone on the island has a family history of schizophrenia with the exception of the servants.

But other than that, I like what >>4932125 says. Everyone in that family has a fishy background and some do have motive for murder, monetary reasons aside.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:47:51 2010 No.4932285 This thread is full of credible detectives.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:52:51 2010 No.4932306 File: 319 KB, 1250x1425, 1263114954078.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4932258 >doesn't exist you butthurt

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:57:51 2010 No.4932331

>>4932268
A bomb. Or a natural disaster. Or the boiler exploding. Or a stupid volcano. Or an UFO. Or something else.
just because you can't think about it, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
But there is no " more plausible theory" actually. Just a giant mess because even when Ange was on Rokkenjima andwe could have an answer, the only thing we saw was that tokyo sealed the area.

Anyway OP's post make sense literally, but umineko is all aboutplaying with words, so.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:58:26 2010 No.4932344 >>4932306 I believe even more on the existence of Beatrice that in the existence of Erika.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 22:59:51 2010 No.4932350 >>4932306 I believe even more on the existence of Beatrice than in the existence of Erika.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:04:51 2010 No.4932382 All hail Gohdatrice.

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:04:51 2010 No.4932383
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>>4932258

wow, you must be really, really dumb. It's not like that was the only clue, there are several.
And that text is a clue, you will ignore it? OK
If Erika exists or not doesn't matter, something happened that made proving if she was there or not impossible. Like all the bodies blowing up in pieces.

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:05:51 2010 No.4932385

>>4932350
Well, sure, Beatrice exists.

Just that she can represent not only 4 pieces, but also objects, concepts, yadayadayada.
Her being a bomb is a tad bit silly.

Beatrice could "kill" Battler by poisoning the wine or setting something before, she doesn't have to BE the bomb or whatever.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:06:51 2010 No.4932399 kinzo riddle says the bomb is the golden witch

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:08:51 2010 No.4932408 >>4932399 Blonde bombshell, dohohohoho

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:09:51 2010 No.4932414 >>4932383 theory bomb confirmed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:11:51 2010 No.4932434 >>4932385 Canned food is sealed = safe from poison. So how does bottled wine is sealed = not safe from poison? How do you get the poison in the bottle without using a bottle opener?

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:13:51 2010 No.4932448

>>4932383

A clue?
There is the word "bomb". And?
f you go this way, you can find "proofs" about ANYTHING.
The white text is more important than the red text, but taking just some parts of it and ignoring the rest is too easy.
Look, Ange tell that the wind, the rain, and other things have greatly changed the aspect of rokkenjima this 10 last years, so it WAS a landslide, there is no other option!

The point is that we don't even know if the TIPS are reliable in the first place.
So a TIPS which tell the reason about why a character who never existed was forgotten is even LESS reliable.

IDC about your bomb, it is a possibility like another, but ep6 proves nothing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:14:51 2010 No.4932453 File: 11 KB, 229x261, 1263348250719.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4932448 Uminekofag in denial. Grow up, please.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:15:51 2010 No.4932459 >>4932453 Yeah, let's take a word out of its context as an absolute clue, why not.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:16:51 2010 No.4932467 File: 36 KB, 625x309, bombep3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4932448 Cool story bro, you suck at this.

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:17:51 2010 No.4932475
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So far on the Umineko checklist....

Cause of everyone dying : Bomb
Shannon and Kanon : Are the same person, also are Beatrice.
Jessica: Troll? Beatrice? Second Battler? Batman?
Kyrie: Troll? Yandere? Yandere Troll? Yandere Batman?
Rosa: Troll.
Battler: A fag.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:18:51 2010 No.4932477 It reminds me the theory about Kanon being Beatrice because of what Maria is telling to him in ep2

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:18:51 2010 No.4932478 >>4932459 what's an absolute clue? did you mean "proof?", idiot.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:20:51 2010 No.4932499 >>4932448 It say "this space is like a bomb waiting to go off" Not just bomb. That's a very strong lead that there's a bomb in Rokkenjima.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:20:51 2010 No.4932502 >>4932478 If you take this screenshot as a proof, it's even worse.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:23:51 2010 No.4932516 >>4932499 Or that is is a bomb in the figurative sense. Just what it is supposed to means in the first place. But sure, if you take a theory as an absolute truth before reading this, you can only understand it this way.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:26:51 2010 No.4932541 >>4932477 But that was valid. Hell, the only thing people are contending about Piece Beato these days are Jessica's role, or lack thereof, with her.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:28:51 2010 No.4932558 >>4932541 It depends of what you means by "valid". Okay, it is suspicious, But can very easily be an huge error due to a bad interpretation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:28:51 2010 No.4932562 File: 315 KB, 635x479, bombg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I love the denial, there are clues in several of them, but now some idiot is claiming they're unreliable? lol

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:30:51 2010 No.4932581 >>4932562 Already answered many posts ago. You"re not the only one who have read ep6.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:31:51 2010 No.4932583 >>4932562 What's the point of execute and resurrect?

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:33:51 2010 No.4932594

>>4932558
Well, sure, if that was the only bit of information with Kanon.

But there's tons of other stuff to show that Kanon is Beatrice.(And also Shannon) Two of three bits of information, is suspicious. 5 bits is a pattern.

And I am saying this as someone who would rather not have Shkanontrice be the truth. I was hoping for Kanon, Shannon, and Jessica to all be innocent. But that doesn't seem to be the case now, sadly.

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:37:51 2010 No.4932626

>>4932594
Still not sure. If Shkannon is true, then it is not needed to solve the mystery, according to Ryukishi himself. So at least these two are innocents.
If Shkannon is not true, then we don't know anything and everyone can be the culprit ( may Beatrice be "the culprit" or not)

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:40:51 2010 No.4932646

>>4932626
Think of the function of Shkanon. Shkanon as a function is used to solve the locked rooms, take, say, Jessica's room in episode 2. How could Kanon and Jessica both die in the room?

Simple, "Kanon" died, and killed Jessica, because of his two other personas.

It's silly, and annoying, but it makes sense and has proper foreshadowing. Course, it makes Beatrice into a bad guy, but then again, there is also the possibilty that there is more than one Beatrice.

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:41:51 2010 No.4932651

People also wonder whether content from "Land of the golden witch", which was removed from EP3, was included in EP5.

Ryuukishi: I definitely can't tell you that! It's true that the most vital part of "Land of the golden witch" is in there, but it's such a terrifying bit. Furthermore, it's something that neither Battler nor Erika nor Bernkastel has ever brought up in discussion. Maybe they didn't even realize that it was a riddle. Well, you'll probably find out soon. In EP6, a huge bit of red text info will appear regarding this point......according to the current plan.

How many players have noticed what this content is so far?

Ryuukishi: Zero. ...Well, I'd like to say that, but I can't. This content is extremely venomous. Very powerful.

Is this content deeply related to solving the crimes?

Ryuukishi: I think people who have found the "answer" probably won't have any problems. I wonder if they've realized it's a trick...... It's a very dirty trick.

To put it another way, is it possible to reach the truth of the crime if you haven't noticed this trick?

Ryuukishi: That's hard to say. If you don't see through the part from "Land of the golden witch", you definitely won't be able to reach several vital answers.
However, that content was never really necessary in the first place, so you can reach the truth of the crime with it or without it. Still, it's just so venomous that there's a chance you'll be totally confused. Depending on the situation, it's likely to cause a certain misunderstanding.

Why I am saying this ( if land of the golden witch = Skannon of course. In the other case there is still a big mystery somewhere.)

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:46:51 2010 No.4932685

>>4932651
That's assuming that he meant that, it's making a ton of assumptions. Just think about it from the writer's perspective. Shannon is Kanon not for shits and giggles, but for a reason. It allows her to slip through the cracks of the red text through wordplay and Shannoningans. Once you "reach" this truth, a ton of stuff falls into place because you can say "oh, even if Kanon died she wasn't really killed"

In addition, it also gives us clues to other guilty parties by proxy. The servants and Jessica immediately fell under suspicion when general Shkanon theory was accepted. Not that they weren't before, but regardless....

Shkanon is a "key" to the mystery as a whole, and you can try to fight it using alternate interpretations of author quotes and what not, but when it comes down to it, it's true.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:48:51 2010 No.4932700 tl;dr ryukishi explained "the truth" to several people,"it took several hours, and was very confusing" therefore it can't be just some simple shkanon or moon chan bullshit

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:49:51 2010 No.4932711 >>4932700 If a theory about a maid who's also a butler and also a witch is rather simple, I'd hate to see what would be complicated.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:50:51 2010 No.4932715 >>4932700 And there you go, use anedoctal evidence as opposed to, you know, using the stuff present in the novel. Well, fine, I suppose I can't sway you.

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:52:11 2010 No.4932728 [DELETED]

>>4932685
Shkannon is a possibility, and I still only take it this way. But even if it is true, according to this interview, either:
-Skannon is what he is talking about, and is not need for solving anything. t would be strange because it is needed because of the red, but why not.
-Shkannon is not what he is talking about, and is not the content of "land of the golden witch". This way Shkannon could be used for the murders. But it would mean that there is something else which can qualify as a "very powerful content", even more than Shkannon.

As I said, I just don't care about Shkannon. If we listen to the author, even if it is true, it's not the most important part of umineko.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:54:51 2010 No.4932735 We need a new board just for this Umineko shit. /jp/ is for Touhou.

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:54:51 2010 No.4932736

Shkannon is a possibility, and I still only take it this way. But even if it is true, according to this interview, either:
-Skannon is what he is talking about, and is not needed for solving anything. Ot would be strange because it is needed because of the red, but why not.
-Shkannon is not what he is talking about, and is not the content of "land of the golden witch". This way Shkannon could be used for the murders. But it would mean that there is something else which can qualify as a "very powerful content", even more than Shkannon.

As I said, I just don't care about Shkannon. If we listen to the author, even if it is true, it's not the most important part of umineko.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:55:51 2010 No.4932746 >>4932715 Anecdotal evidence from the author.

Anonymous Tue Apr 20 23:55:51 2010 No.4932750

>>4932728
I'd take the interview with a grain of salt. Remember when he said Erika was a good girl?
We should disregard the unknowns, and use common sense and reasoning. Episode 6 shows substantial evidence to prove Shkanon, it shows that there are 16 people on the island minus Erika.

Meaning someone has to be two people, and that is by a large margin Shannon and Kanon.
Once we get that, we see the only logical application is one to bypass the red text and to be the culprit. Everything else is up to question, but the core of Umineko at this point and time is Shkanon.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:01:51 2010 No.4932776

I'd take the interview with a grain of salt. Remember when he said Erika was a good girl?
We should disregard the unknowns, and use common sense and reasoning. Episode 6 shows substantial evidence to prove Shkanon, it shows that there are 16 people on the island minus Erika.

Ep6 was rather confuse, and everyone forget Erika's monologue in the end of the game. Which is as strange as Shkannon. Maybe even more.

And even if I don't like her, Erika could actually be a good girl. After all it is subjective to our PoV, and I want to believe that Ryukishi knows better the wherabout of his characters than me.

(By the way, does someone have a link of this interview where is says that Erika is a good girl? I'm searching it since a long time)

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:03:51 2010 No.4932796 >>4932750 >it shows that there are 16 people on the island minus Erika No it does not. This is your interpretation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:04:51 2010 No.4932801 >>4932796 Uminekofans confirmed for autistic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:06:51 2010 No.4932813 >>4932801 You're the one being autistic here. I don't agree with him either, but there is no timeline at this moment with the red or whatever, so if Ryukishi wanted to troll everyone, he could very easily do anything.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:06:51 2010 No.4932818 >>4932750 Erika is in a similar position as Ange, only she took it to a new level of trolling. The biggest difference is that one wanted to help Battler and the other obviously didn't.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:08:51 2010 No.4932825

>>4932750
Even if you assume the blue truth seal was removed later and that Shannon = Kanon you must also assume (since you beleive Erika exists) that Erika's theory was on the right track. George and Shannon are both in the neighboring room if you beleive Kanon and Shannon are the same person theory is possible you must also accept the possibility of a Kanon and George are the same person theory.

Erika has her own answer separate from Battler's so this is not on the wrong track.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:09:51 2010 No.4932843 >>4932813 You really are grasping at straws, you do know that, right? Ah, whatever, if Witch Hunt finishes their patch you'll see what I mean.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:10:51 2010 No.4932846

>>4932825
> you must also accept the possibility of a Kanon and George are the same person theory.
Doesn't work like that. Battler has seen George and Kanon in the same room before. The combination of Shannon and Kanon is the only combo of people that Battler never saw together during his time as the detective.

Basically if Kanon is anyone else, it has to be Shannon.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:10:51 2010 No.4932852 >>4932818 Well in'any case, if you take Bern's side PoV, Erika is not a bad girl. She is surely incompetent and a lot of other things, but if you don't think in only one dimension what Ryukishi said could be true.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:12:51 2010 No.4932861 File: 12 KB, 264x208, 6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4932813 You have no love. You make me sick. A man like you, will never solve this mystery.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:12:51 2010 No.4932864 >>4932843 I already read ep6. But it still doesn't change anything.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:13:51 2010 No.4932873 >>4932861 I didn't say that Ryukishi will do it, but saying that someone is autistic because he doesn't agree with you is purely stupid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:19:51 2010 No.4932910 >>4932861 Hey, to ignore Shkanon is to have no "love" for Ryukushi. It literally relies on assuming that he's trolling us. I believe in Doubletrice myself, though.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:19:51 2010 No.4932913

>>4932846
>Doesn't work like that. Battler has seen George and Kanon in the same room before

Not exactly. It's very rare. He saw Kanon outside once in episode 1. Presumably he was in the chapel too, but then again so was Shannon.

But Kanon and George have never had a conversation together not even in the intros.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:20:51 2010 No.4932921 >>4932861 Wait, you are the one stating that the author will come out with a bullshit theory disproven many times, which could only be accurate if you distort so many word definitions and red truths and I'm the one who has no love?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:21:51 2010 No.4932927 >>4932910 Well, in any case that's the case since the beginning of umineko, so

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:33:51 2010 No.4933009 >>4932651 If "the content was never really necessary", how can Shkannon possibly be true?

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 00:36:51 2010 No.4933024

>>4932776
Since Erika changed so much after Bern abandoned her, I wonder if the "good girl" comment was regarding her real personality, as opposed to the piece personality imposed on her by Bern? We do have the example of Dlanor acting totally different depending on piece/player context.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 03:27:51 2010 No.4933829 >>4933009 Don't mind them, Shkannonfags are just retarded. LAND OF THE GOLDEN WITCH. THEREFORE SHKANNON MUST BE TRUE. I'd settle in her golden land, if you know what I mean.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 09:08:51 2010 No.4934808

>>4933829
Well. I SERIOUSLY disagree with Shkannon, but there is a possibility that it is the case.
The problem is that Shkannonfags are saying that this is the ONLY possibility, that is it an absolute truth, or whatever.

The funniest part is that the other ep where everyone surredered to "magic" was... ep2.
And now, everyone surrender to.... Chiru ep 2. Strange coincidence.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 09:40:51 2010 No.4934919
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Is bomb the only way to explain Beatrice's final riddle?

No one on the island is alive except for Battler, no forces outside of the island can interfere. Yet something/someone kills him.

...God dammit, I really hate this theory.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 09:42:51 2010 No.4934924 File: 40 KB, 848x480, 1270997148155.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4934808 Yeah, except for episode 1 and everything.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 09:45:51 2010 No.4934941 >>4934924 No no, I was speaking about the reader

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 09:45:51 2010 No.4934943

If you think about it logically, there's absolutely no reason for R07 to hide the fact that Kinzo is dead. It put nothing in his hand, and when people tried to say it could mean an extra person existed, that was denied. It a complete dudd of a card, but true nonetheless.

I think Shkanon is the same way. It may be true, but so what? That isn't even close to the entire truth of the story.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 09:46:51 2010 No.4934946 >>4934941 If I remember correctly, episode 2 was the time when people started first theorizing about Shkanon.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 09:47:51 2010 No.4934954

>>4934919

I think the problem I have with BOMB is that Beatrice is humanized in red text way to often for me to want to believe that she is anything but a living person.

EP 5 red truths:
# This child has nothing to gain from having someone solve the epitaph.
# The gold of the Golden Land belongs to this child. She had absolutely no need to make you find it for her or to snatch it away herself.
# Whether the epitaph's riddle is solved or not, this child stands nothing to gain at all.
# Regardless of whether the epitaph is solved or not, Beato has nothing to gain.

Plus, doesn't Battler see a human Beatrice in EP 4?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 09:48:51 2010 No.4934963 >>4934808 In a way, it seems the pattern chiru will follow is that it mimics key events from the corresponding games in the first half of the story.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 09:50:51 2010 No.4934968 >>4934943 There is a difference between a plot device revealed in episode 4 and another plot device that will be revealed in the last or next to last episode, fucking idiot.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 09:51:51 2010 No.4934975

>>4934946
There was already theory about Shkannon in ep1, but people started to take it "seriously" with ep2, yes.

>>
I think Shkanon is the same way. It may be true, but so what? That isn't even close to the entire truth of the story.

Exactly, but no, according to Shkannonfags, "SHKANNON IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE SO THERE IS NOTHING TO THINK ABOUT ANYMORE". haem.

>>Plus, doesn't Battler see a human Beatrice in EP 4?

That's the point of multi-trice. But even so, I still don't see enough foreshading. If the bomb theory is true, there is only really small hints. So it would be hard with knox 8th.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 09:54:51 2010 No.4934983 >>4934919 The thing is, Battler is not only dead, but he's missing at the end of Episode 4. The only thing that could kill and completely erase a human in one go is a bomb.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 09:56:51 2010 No.4934995 This thread demonstrates exactly why Umineko sucks balls as a murder mystery. Instead of arguing evidence and possibilities, people argue SEMANTICS. Because the only real evidence is the red text.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 09:56:51 2010 No.4934996 >>4934983 Or a landslide, or a lot of other things. In the same way the bomb doesn't always erase all of the corpse. Maria in ep1.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 10:00:51 2010 No.4935017

>>4932750
Not quite. If you accept that there are only 16 people, the only explanation is Shkanon. Basically only 16 people = Shkanon, same thing expressed in different ways. They really are the only two Battler has ever not seen together.

By the way, to someone else, Erika's theory was rather different. It was that there were two Georges, George George, and Kanon George. Not that George and Kanon were the same person, since that would be impossible to argue due to the detective's perspective.

I remember when back in the day the fact that Battler never saw Shannon and Kanon together for four whole episodes was considered ample proof for them being the same person. Then we get an entire episode dedicated to Shkanon, and that, plus them never being seen together, plus many, many many others points it's enough proof and it's seen as ridiculous and impossible and stupid and the worst of all theories.

When did this change of mindset occur?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 10:01:51 2010 No.4935018 >>4934995 I don't even trust the red text, personally. It would be too easy, and it is misleading by nature, so I can't take it as an 'absolute truth". But the real problem in umineko is the reader. not the story.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 10:02:51 2010 No.4935025 >>4935018 >But the real problem in umineko is the reader. not the story. Yes, as you clearly demonstrated with: >I don't even trust the red text, personally.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 10:02:51 2010 No.4935027 >>4935017 When BATTLERxBEATO IS MY OTP SO CUTE XD BUT SHKANON COULD MEAN SHKANONTRICE, IT WOULD MEAN MY BEATO IS THAT SLUT SHANNON. DENY THIS DENY THIS WITH ALL MY MIGHT. Basically, also current Umineko fanbase in a nutshell.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 10:05:51 2010 No.4935035

>>4935025
Believe what you want to, but when even the author says that a promise to tell the truth is too much, there is really a problem somewhere. "I don't believe in the red text" don't necessarily means that the red text is a lie. But it is incomplete and a lot of other things.
But if you want to follow everything slowly in a thinking game, do as you wish.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 10:54:51 2010 No.4935270 Sure is unmarked episode 6 spoilers in here. Thanks guys!

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 10:55:51 2010 No.4935275 >>4935270 This is /jp/ not fucking /a/ or whatever shitty place you came from, fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 10:59:51 2010 No.4935291 >>4935275 What the hell does that matter? The majority of people in /jp/ can't speak japanese and thus haven't played umineko 6. /jp/ has a spoiler tag. Use it.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 11:00:51 2010 No.4935299

>>4935291
Are you expecting to come into every thread to discuss Umienko, but ignoring the latest episode? What's the point of that? It's a mystery, people want to be up to date. If you don't want Umineko episode 6 spoilers, go live under a rock for the next three years or so that Witch Hunt will take.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 11:01:51 2010 No.4935301 >>4935291 Once again, fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 11:01:51 2010 No.4935302 >>4935299 I don't mind the discussion, I just want people to spoiler it. That's all. The tag exists for a reason.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 11:02:51 2010 No.4935307 >>4935302 Why spoiler it? It wastes our time, why not save us the trouble by hiding Umineko threads?

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 11:14:51 2010 No.4935373
File: 467 KB, 1261x480, 1268834349990.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I am trying to make a list of Umineko theories that have names so far, not all of them have to be theories that explain the whole mystery. Please help me.

Doubletrice
Shkanontrice
Teatrice
Big B0MB
Moon-chan
Ghodatrice
Kyrie culprit

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 11:18:51 2010 No.4935384 >>4935373 Battler culprit

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 11:19:51 2010 No.4935389 >>4935373 Magic is real

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 11:23:51 2010 No.4935407 >>4935373 Ghost Erika Erika Ball Kinzotrice

>>	None !NACK.rrrr. Wed Apr 21 11:23:51 2010 No.4935410 >>4935373 Nanjo is his own daughter.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 11:24:51 2010 No.4935411 >>4935410 Isn't it Nanjo is his own granddaughter?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 11:25:51 2010 No.4935417 >>4935410 >>4935411 both

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 11:36:51 2010 No.4935444 File: 79 KB, 704x776, komachi_detective.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Mystery presented via Pretty Cure This looks like a job for Detective Komachi!

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 11:47:51 2010 No.4935508 >>4935373 Everyone-is-Beatrice >>4935407 Erika Ball?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 11:50:51 2010 No.4935519 >>4935508 Erika Ball is the theory that "Erika" is a roving objective viewpoint that gets passed around to different people during the course of EP5.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 12:17:22 2010 No.4935647 >>4935444 Uh, if Komachi was on the case from the start, everything would've been solved before the end of the VN's second episode.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 12:24:51 2010 No.4935687 >>4935373 Mannontrice

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 12:34:51 2010 No.4935738 >>4935519 I like this theory.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 12:50:51 2010 No.4935836 >>4935519 I don't really mind if Erika exists or not; it's been confirmed that her presence does not influence any game in any way whatsoever.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 12:57:51 2010 No.4935873 >>4935836 The nice thing about Ghost Erika/Erika Ball is that after you strip off all of her bullshit, there's a real person underneath that can be used to actually have EP5-6 make some kind of narrative sense.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 13:06:51 2010 No.4935911

>>4935873
One of the problems I have with the theory is that "Erika" was stated in red to exist in a certain place (along with Nanjo), and the locations of everyone else were confirmed in red around that time as well. ...Unless there's some trick of red text that would have allowed one of the people whose positions were supposedly known to have actually been in the guesthouse lounge with Nanjo...?

Though, the main reason I dislike it is because it seems to demean Erika, and also implies that the real Erika does indeed die of drowning and probably has no chance of ever surviving no matter what gameboard is used. It just... makes me sad to think that even if piece Battler is able to get a good end for himself and his family, Erika would have no chance of a good end for herself.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 13:09:51 2010 No.4935926 >>4935911 Because Erika literally has NO chance from surviving, she has a 100% chance of dying, Bern makes her survive through several miracles, but even she says it took a lot of preparation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 13:14:51 2010 No.4935944 >>4935926 You seem to be forgetting that Bern's power doesn't work when the possibility is fully 100%. In other words, the chance of Erika surviving is so infinitesimal it might as well be zero, but it isn't zero.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 13:16:51 2010 No.4935951 >>4935944 OK, then an infinte 99.9%, better? Erika surviving is too hard, but maybe Battler feels like it and brings a non mary sue Erika.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 13:20:51 2010 No.4935970 >>4932237 Inb4 Beatrice=Ushiromiya family (that also makes Evatrice=Sumadera family, E3'd be solved)

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 13:30:51 2010 No.4936029

Holy shit, guys, I bet you all missed the one single frame in the Episode 5 OP which features an explosion on the island, that is as huge that the flames literarilly cover the whole island.

I guess that's enought to cause a landslide, too.

Also the clock can be wery well off.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 13:48:51 2010 No.4936117

>>4935970
The symbol of Beatrice is the one-winged eagle. The symbol of the Ushiromiya family is the one-winged eagle. OH SHI—

>>4936029
> Holy shit, guys, I bet you all missed the one single frame in the Episode 5 OP which features an explosion on the island, that is as huge that the flames literarilly cover the whole island.
> single frame
There are quite a few frames close to the end of the Chiru OP showing something exploding and blowing away some sort of "bubble" that covers Rokkenjima. If you take that "bubble" to be symbolic of the shroud of mystery concerning the Rokkenjima Incident, then you could say that that explosion marks the end of the Incident, and the "bubble" is destroyed because, while the explosion would hide any evidence from before, everything after isn't shrouded by that veil of mystery.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 13:50:51 2010 No.4936126 >>4936117 The symbol of Beatrice is the inverted one winged eagle, the same as Battler.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 13:50:51 2010 No.4936129

>>4936029
nothing new here. It's not an explosion, but if you take a screen it really looks like it.

by the way, Erika-ghost and Erika ball are based on the fact that Erika is a title , just like Kinzo ( for the red).
It also explain the final red of ep6.
>>I don't really mind if Erika exists or not; it's been confirmed that her presence does not influence any game in any way whatsoever.

not influence so much that she kills 5 people. mindfuck.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 13:53:51 2010 No.4936147 >>4936117 The symbolism is more the fact that beatrice is free. After this, we can see a golden butterfly escaping from the bubble/island

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 13:54:51 2010 No.4936148 >>4936117 I always interpretted the bubble as the closed circle the island is trapped in. The "explosion" is just a fancy way to make the bubble burst.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:02:51 2010 No.4936179 File: 366 KB, 640x2400, B0MBs and Moonchans.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Dude.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:07:51 2010 No.4936209
File: 13 KB, 225x186, imagination.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4935373
On /seacats/ there's actually a good theory about Nanjo being the mastermind.
Well, probably it won't be true, but a lot of things of that theory make sense.

It's sad to think that most of the people here, rather than thinking of their own theories just keep on sucking and sucking Shkannon's dick.
Right or wrong, it would be fine to use your own imagination.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:08:51 2010 No.4936220 >>4936209 Yeah, /jp/ sucks. Let us leave this shitty place and go back to /seacats/ to have intelligent conversations with intelligent people such as ourselves.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:09:51 2010 No.4936224

>>4935018
>>4935035
Inb4
The weakness of red text is that it's a 'game rule'. It doesn't hold water outside of the game board.

It is very explicitly explained with two points:

1) Sakutaro can be ressurected disregard the red. Because 1998 Rokkenjima!=gameboard.

2) It would be bullshit to say that they wouldn't, potencially, be mistaken under certain circumastances, but Kinzo and Kanon MUST NOT be mistaken for anyone else. By the rule of the game that is the red text. See Battler using this as a final red argument against Dlanor in E5.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:11:51 2010 No.4936236

>>4936224
> 1) Sakutaro can be ressurected disregard the red. Because 1998 Rokkenjima!=gameboard.
Wrong. Beatrice said in red that her magic is unable to resurrect Sakutarou. She also said in red that her magic is the only magic that works in the Golden Land. In other words, Sakutarou was resurrected via a method other than magic, despite Ange referring to it as such.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:12:51 2010 No.4936244 >>4936224 Well then, I guess that means the fact that Beatrice stating in red that Battler is not the son of Ushiromiya Asumu means nothing as Battler's birth happened before the events of the game.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:13:51 2010 No.4936247 >>4936236 Stitching the shitty doll back together perhaps?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:13:51 2010 No.4936248 >>4936179 This doesn't look like a bomb at all, in fact the "bubble" looks like a very giant moon

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:16:51 2010 No.4936270 >>4936248 talking seriously about the moon, I vfound it truly funny that during the whole ep6 Kanon kept referring to Jessica as his sun that shines over everything. I mean, even if it doesn't mean a shit it made everything better.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:18:51 2010 No.4936278

>>4936236
I was pretty sure Beato says "Sakutarou can not be ressurected ever again"

Doesn't it still make a lie this one, though?
># That stuffed animal is a special stuffed animal
># Made by Rosa for her daughter's birthday, and in the entire world, the only

I do not know what value does Hanyyu's "That Beatrice you speak of can never be ressurected again" hold, as she is obviously meta-meta.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:20:51 2010 No.4936289 >>4936244 Hey... I guess if you say it in present sense, "You are not Ushiromiya Asumu's son!", it does hold water. However, if you'd say it as "It was from Asumu that Battler was..." Well, shit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:22:51 2010 No.4936306 >>4936278 It doesn't. Beatrice was unable to finish her red text there, just as Battler was unable to finish saying that red text about him and Asumu. In other words, Sakutarou was made specially for Maria, but Rosa didn't just make one.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:27:51 2010 No.4936353 >>4936306 That would mean that red applies even outside of Rokkenjima, if Sakutarous aren't in Jessica's room or Kawabata's ship docking at bay with a SWAT team or something. Which is pretty damn strange.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:34:51 2010 No.4936430 >>4936353 >>4936306 In turn, it can very well be explained by them failing exactly because they are speaking in too past a sense.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 14:46:51 2010 No.4936521 >>4936430 Except things have successfully been said about the past in red.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 15:02:51 2010 No.4936640

>>4936353
Well it can apply. If the red can tell us things about pre oct 4th stuff in episode 5 whose to say it can't tell us about off island events?
>>4935017
>Not quite. If you accept that there are only 16 people, the only explanation is Shkanon. Basically only 16 people = Shkanon, same thing expressed in different ways. They really are the only two Battler has ever not seen together.

Not quite. You can have people off the island exclusively for that episode (hints for this with Jessica) and have Erika included as a person if you beleive the 16 people bit. You can also explain that some people are not believed to be human by people on the island. So If furniture = racism than someone like Genji or Kanon can be considered "not human" because the Ushiromiya family believes they have no soul.

You can also claim author theory and have some other people be the same person only for that episode as a plot point or for someone to be dead before the episode 6 starts.

You can get around it in tons of ways.

Anonymous Wed Apr 21 15:38:54 2010 No.4936838

>>4935911
The trick under that theory is that "Erika" refers to the player Erika, who is "playing as" one of the real people. The same "everyone else" trick from EP6 was used in EP5 to implicitly place a bunch of people in the dining room, so if one of those was Erika's piece, they could have actually been in the guesthouse to fulfill the red.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 21 17:00:21 2010 No.4937515 >>4936838 And just what people she is playing as and when? Especially interesting is the time of "corpses discovering".

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