/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Shkanon is ridiculous. Ryuukishi wouldn't shit on his own themes and it's completely unnecessary to solve the mystery.

I think it's time we admit this to ourselves.

[Anonymous No.]

It's pretty much a fact by now, Beato reached the answer and saved Battler by sending Kanon, I don't know what else think of that.

[Anonymous No.]

I watched anime before VN and firstly though that Kanon was girl

[Anonymous No.]

>>4780620
>I think it's time we just wait until Ryu releases the next episode.

[Anonymous No.]

i think its time to wait on the ep6 translation so that people who aren't complete raving fucktards can see whats going on

[Anonymous No.]

Does anyone have any speculations that don't involve crossdressing or multiple personalities?

[Anonymous No.]

>it's completely unnecessary to solve the mystery
So you've solved the Uminekos then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4780705
I'm pretty sure they've given up on attempting a logical solution.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4780705
>don't involve crossdressing or multiple personalities?
You're asking too much of us.

[Anonymous No.]

We are at a crossroads, it can go Shkanontrice or it can go Kanontrice. There are fools that want doubletrice to happen(because they can't have Jessitrice), and further delude themselves into believing it has a chance. The real question is how much does Ryukishi wish to troll the fans with the ending, that will give you the answer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4780705
No multiple personalities? not a chance. There are tons of clues that point to multiple personalities.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4780705
I imagine different theories will arise once people actually read episode 6 rather than a summary.

[Anonymous No.]

>Ryuukishi wouldn't shit on his own themes
brain parasites

[Anonymous No.]

Though with Shkanontrice, the chances George still dies in the last episode is really high. That alone is ALMOST worth the rest of the crap.

[Anonymous No.]

Obviously the only real solution is that the murders were caused by magic. Battler should've given up long ago. Beatrice is the endless witch after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4780846
Or rather they will fabricate theories that ensure their particular favorite MPD must be the case.

[Anonymous No.]

>read higurashi
What a bullshit solution to this mystery!
>read umineko
Ryukishi is a genius I can't wait to see what the solution to this mystery is!

[Anonymous No.]

Every closed room can be solved without it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4780864
He still has a chance to make it good without many plot holes. Though he kinda cornered himself into only one solution for that.(Kanontrice)

[Anonymous No.]

By the way, what are solutions to Higurashi? That brain parasites thing or something else?

[Anonymous No.]

I've never believed in Shkanon/trice theories, they're probably just one of the most obvious theories that way too hyped up because "everyone thought of it" and it's so easy to explain to each other, so easy that's it really is too easy.

I leave it to Ryukishi to give us the mind-fuck that we deserve (EP3 VirgiliaVSBeatrice, EP4 BattlerVSAnti-Mystery, EP5 BattlerVSMystery and fuckin golden truth) and he's been doing a good job of doing that consistently for Seacat fans to enjoy and call their own. Everyone knows that Shkanon/trice theories wouldn't serve Umineko any justice.

[Anonymous No.]

Shkanontrice is BS, doubletrice forever!

[Anonymous No.]

Witch Hunt should have put Translation Progress: 54%
as an April Fools joke, it would pissed the hell out of everyone

[Anonymous No.]

>>4780959
>because making situations shittier is a <GOOD> solution

[Anonymous No.]

>>4780620
Battler, the detective, saw Beatrice and said that her face was surely same as the witch in the portrait, in EP4.
It means that we have to reduce the number of human in Rokkenima.

If you try to overcome the "her face was surely same as the witch" problem with "his misjudgment", you will never solve the mystery, because we can't do anything in the world where the detective can't even correctly see the face of the person whom he has been meeting for a few minutes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4780986
Not yet april 1 for everyone, they might do something yet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>>>4780992
Truthfully, shkanontrice and doubletrice are equally shitty solutions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4780864
Consider how Lambda made fun of Higurashi's solutions too, I don't think it can get any worse than brain parasites

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781006
Not good enough of a view: he was outside at night during a storm

Being a detective doesn't make him infallible in every way possible, else he's not be failing so hard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781018

Ryuukishi realized how BS his solutions to Higurashi were. He's said so himself. The Knox's Rules were his apology and promise that he won't do such crap again. So the Umineko answer will definitely make sense and not be unbelievably, ridiculously esoteric and unpredictable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781022
> he was outside at night during a storm
He, saw, her, face, clearly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781013
It's worse because Shkanontrice still exists within it, only fags that are desperate for Jessica to be Beatrice would have reason not to hate it more.

[Anonymous No.]

Jessica is the most likely candidate to be Suit Beato in Episode 4, though.

Kyrie tells Battler about the "golden thread." Since the Siestas don't exist, what could she possibly be doing? That's a pretty random thing to say. What's the only kind of golden thread we know of on the island? Jessica's hair. She's tipping Battler off that Jessica's alive.

Plus, who else could it be? And don't say Shkannon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781035
>>4781035

he 'surely' did

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781018
heh yeah I forgot that R07 mocked his own higurashi for its brain parasites and lolmagic.
To make solutions as absurd as those at this point would be the same as admitting that he can't write a mystery worth shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781055
>lets ignore all the evidence that Beatrice doesn't actually match up to the image in the picture, not to mention the fact it's been stated that somebody could have been wearing a wig so still complies with Knox's

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781022
Detective can't tell a lie in his narration.
How could he say "her face is surely same as the witch" in uncertain sight?
If he couldn't see her face clearly, he would have to say "I can't see her very well, but she seems to have the same shape as the witch".

That narration means that he could see her face well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781058

>implying 3rd-person perspective

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781035
Now hold here. All he said was that he recognized her as the witch Beatrice. It didn't say that he scanned her face completely.

And him recognizing Beatrice is nothing new. It's not something unique to Doubletrice, Kanontrice, or Shkanontrice. He did see Shannon's face before too. So don't use that as an argument to go against anything, because it really doesn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781084
Just out of curiosity, her face is the same as Beatrice, so what? Aren't we going under the assumption that Jessica is Beatrice? Isn't that a logical flaw in and of itself to use the proof of something to disprove itself?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781106
He said her face was same as the witch. Reread EP4.
And I have to say it again:
We can't do anything in the world where the detective can't even correctly see the face of the person whom he has been meeting for a few minutes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781132
Well, we're in a world were people do not recognize that a maid and a butler is the same person. An appeal to sanity gets you no points.
But perhaps I'll rephrase it more along the lines of what >>4781115 said.

Beatrice's face looking like Beatrice's face? The horror! If Jessica is a version of Beatrice, there is nothing incorrect about her being able to pass for Beatrice. And before you whine about him being tricked by his own cousin, be aware that the other alternative is him being tricked by a maid and/or manservant whose face he has also seen. The argument is nonunique.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781132
Using that crappy logic, because nobody mentions outright that Jessica looks like the witch in the picture she cannot be her. On the other hand an aunt mentioned that if Shannon put on a wig she'd fit the image.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781175
No, what Eva specifically said is that Maria could have seen Shannon in a wig when she met Beato in the garden. Not that Shannon would look like that portrait if she put on a wig.

Get your shit straight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781188
>implying that it isn't the same thing
especially when Maria specifically says she matched the portrait

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781040
Can't she be Beatrice and not the mastermind/culprit?

e.g. Jessica used to be a wannabe witch, hated life, hoping everyone would die and stuff...so she wrote a detailed description of how magic will kill everyone in each twilight onto a bottled letter. (sort of like how kids nowadays write people's names on "death notes") but she eventually grew out of that phase and is no longer Beatrice.

But during those 6 years, the real culprit/mastermind comes along, somehow managed to read those bottled letters...and planned out murder plot based on how it's described on the letters, becoming a second Beatrice

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781200
It's not the same thing. Eva doesn't make an explicit comparison to the portrait. She just mentions how it's a possibility that Shannon could have been the "Beatrice" that Maria met.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781208
Doubletricefag here. I would like to stress that we don't believe in what we do because we have a raging hard on for Jessitrice. Rather, the consensus of most of us is that it nicely explains Jessica's trollish actions(what does she REALLY have to gain from them, anyways?) and the fact that she doesn't notice that Shannon is Kanon. The only way you wouldn't notice such obvious delusions were if you yourself were delusional.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781210
What about the trust in the author you've been spouting shit about? If we are to trust it so much then we have to realize the one who met Maria was a dressed up servant with a wig, and looked exactly like Beatrice. Which would make that servant the only one with ANY sort of mention for looking like Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781230
>Oh shit, one of us blew the cover! Gotta make them look like the only one.
Nice try asshole.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781169
People usually don't think like "this person might be disguise by that person."
Do you have a confidence that you can find out disguise by someone whom you don't know? I don't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781234
Two responses to that.

One is that the so called trust in the author is trust of the character who has her own opinion of the matter. It doesn't mean her opinion has to be CORRECT.

Two is that with Doubletrice theory at least, we aren't being picky with who is more "Beato-like" than the other. Either character would be able to pass for Beato in a pinch. So if you want to use this someone convoluted example to decry lack of foreshadowing for Jessica, be my guest, but the Doubletrice foreshadowing goes as far back as episode 1. Bern herself says that Beato doesn't even represent 1 person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781249
learn to english

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781245
Yes, it's all a conspiracy, you caught me.
Fucking retard, that's the last time I actually try to explain the position in a thread like this. HATERS GONNA HATE, I suppose.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781245
Christ you're stupid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781230
What if she does know Shannon is Kanon? That doesn't make her a culprit. What if she was threatened in EP4 that Shkanon would die if she doesn't make a prank phone call and dress up like Beatrice to test Battler

[Anonymous No.]

It's been a long time since I last read any theory about umineko. I see a lot of Doubletrice and Shkannontrice threads going but I don't understand how the two theories can't convive. Weren't we sure that Beatrice is a title and so there are many of them? Wasn't probably Kumasawa the first Beatrice (being her alterego Virgilia)?

[Anonymous No.]

Why can't we all just get along?
Remember the good old days, with Kyrie being the culprit?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781256
First point is retarded, as if could be mentioning about the PREVIOUS Beatrices.

Second, no there isn't. You are just interpreting the fact that Jessica is an accomplice/master-mind as her being Beatrice, using that logic then Nanjo is also Beatrice.(in b4 Nanjo is his granddaughter theory)

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781287
The issue is that Doubletrice is a combination of Shkanontrice and Jessitrice. Shkanontrice people are adamant that it's Shannon and only Shannon. Doubletrice people, well, see the title "double".

It's only natural that the two factions are fighting right now. I guess it can't be helped.

...And those moon-chan bastards won't SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[Anonymous No.]

So what are the theories on what actually happened in EP3?

[Anonymous No.]

So Kyrie pockets again, why is she trying to frame Hideyoshi (is she?) & why does she have a boat stub?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781296
I'm using that to acknowledge the possibility of multiple Beatos. However, I am also using the fact that Jessica is young, has blonde hair, and is a woman to pass for Beatrice. Nanjo doesn't fulfill those requirements, and quite frankly no else does either. She also has a bizarre relationship with Beatrice on the board. Sometimes she doesn't believe in the witch. Yet sometimes she shows a greater knowledge than she should, and of course the portrait scene speaks for itself(said manga scene was the manga that Ryu himself said was decent for clues)

Basically, in a comparison, here's what you've managed to get for Shannon versus what I have for Jessica.

You have the fact that an aunt speculated the possibilty that the Beatrice Maria met may be Shannon.

I have the fact that Jessica fits the criteria of being a young woman, blonde, and busty. Your example isn't even directly tied to Shannon, it only works with an assumption in mind, the assumption that Maria DID meet Shannon, my example is self evident from the start.

Of course, Shannon DOES have great foreshadowing to being Beatrice, in her crazy persona dialogues with her. But in terms of LOOKING like Beatrice, well, that is not one of her strengths.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781287
Beatrice is a title, but the Beatrice that started the game with Battler is a specific individual that wishes to keep their real identity secret.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781328
What's the deal with Eva-Beato then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781328
You mean Meta-Beatrice?

That certainly doesn't work. Bern says right off the bat in episode 1, when describing Meta-Beato, that she's not a single one person.

As for Piece Beato, sure, maybe, but then again, maybe not.

[Anonymous No.]

Can't we have Doubletrice without Shkanon?

Like...Shannon's upset that Battler broke the Pony promise and kills people. Jessica wants her to stop, so she dresses as Suit Beato, confronts Battler to get him to remember, he doesn't, Shannon kills Jessica? She then wanders around for a while, then shoots herself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781348
Why does whoever Beatrice is hate Rosa?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781323
>However, I am also using the fact that Jessica is young, has blonde hair, and is a woman to pass for Beatrice.
This is why you are fucking retarded. You point out nothing but obvious or irrelevant things. Nothing says that the real Beatrice has blonde hair, in fact there is plenty of evidence to say the opposite.

Come back when you grow a brain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781348
Someone suggested a Shannon/Kanon version the other day too. Shannon was the Beatrice who loved Battler and was sinned against, but Kanon was the Beatrice who wanted Battler to apologize for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781348
Well, Faux Battler-san, Doubletrice kinda needs the Shkanon aspect to work. If Kanon and Shannon are two seperate people, then Jessica is sane and only slightly a troll. However, if Shkanon is true, then we must conclude that either Jessica is a huge troll, hiding such a critical secret during a murder spree, or out of her mind.


And for Doubletrice's take on episode 4, the picture speaks for itself. Suit Beato was confronting Battler, things failed because Battler has more important shit to worry about than a promise he made when he was 12, and then another Beatrice took over, putting the Suit Beato to rest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781372
>putting the Suit Beato to rest
Read: shooting her and stuffing her in the incinerator.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781364
Rage all you want at me, but that all comes to not. Just to be blatantly clear, when Battler meets Beatrice in the anime, her hair is blonde.
Thus confirming that the blonde witch Beatrice is blonde. Shocking, I know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781372

Why does Jessica have to be unbelievably crazy? She sees her best friend is murdering people and she isn't keeping it a secret, in Episode 4 she finds out and tries to put a stop to it by appealing to the root cause--Battler. But Shannon isn't appeased, kills Jessica, and says she'll "take over from here" with Battler, since Jessica couldn't make him remember.

And how does Jessica find out? Genji. That explains the magic scene where she fights Ronove.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781382
No, no, read: Shooting her in her own room. As fitting a place to take a nap as any.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781388
The only trouble for me is highlighted as early as episode 1. If Jessica is aware of Shkanon, she should have publically called Shannonigans when Shannon's body was discovered in the garden.

So I am leaning towards her being crazy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781392
A bottle of red, a bottle of white, whatever kind of mood you're in tonight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781372
THAT ISN'T TWO PIECE BEATRICES! Did you not realize one is piece Beatrice and the other meta-Beatrice, that can happen because it's a fantasy scene? The fucking game ended right there, or did you really think piece Beatrice can use red words? Not even the faux meta versions in episode 5 did.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781402

Why is Shkanon necessary at all? Shannon and Kanon can be two different people and my blue is valid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781408
Why not? Natsuhi used red text in EP5. So did Hideyoshi in EP3.

[Anonymous No.]

Battler Sucks Battledick

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781408
Well, anyone can see at a glance that those are Meta and Piece Beatrice, but Meta says she'll take over. And the fact that a dialogue is occurring between the two of them is suspicious in and of itself. The game does continue after that, and remember, Piece Beatrice counted on Meta Beatrice to "take care of the rest".

And after that failed confrontration, someone did indeed take steps to "take care of the rest", to obfuscate the truth from Battler as much as possible. The servants were killed, and Shannon's death with the well trick confirm that someone had a specific goal of raising the giant middle finger to detective's Battler goal to figure out just what the hell happened.

[Anonymous No.]

Well, good evening. My computer has to restart, I leave the rest to you, my fellow Doubletrice bros.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm just gonna leave some blue for Episode 1 here before I go to bed.

Shannon faked her death along with the other five, and convinced Genji to lock the door and paint the magic circle. After that, she was free to commit all of the murders that took place on the island, before dying to the bomb. This is supported by the four she leaves alive, the four she was closest to:

Battler, whom she loved.
George, whom she loves.
Jessica, who is her best friend and confidant.
Maria, who is the most innocent person on the island.

She wanted to spare Kanon, but he realized it was her following Eva and Hideyoshi's murder. He follows her to the boiler room, confronts her, and she is forced to kill him. However, she attempts to give him a chance at the tea party in the afterlife. Stupid Battler rejects her, of course.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781306
>>4781311
Nobody cares about the investigation anymore. They are too busy finding out who is more Beatrice-like.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781306

I see Eva as the culprit. The murder plot relies heavily on "Turning the chessboard" predicting what people would do. And it went fine when the servants were killed. But the moment when Eva found the gold, remembering her past... her value of gold and status became higher than family. Like what Battler said in EP2, "Turning the chessboard" won't work if your opponent is not her usual self. Plus the whole Beato passing the torch (culprit status) to EVA-Beatrice fantasy scene.

For the Nanjo part, the original plan was to have an accomplice (one of the 6 servants pretended to have died) kill Nanjo in the end...and being in the mansion, separated from everyone in the guesthouse, the accomplice was not aware that the murder plot has failed, thus, he/she continued on with the plan to kill Nanjo anyways.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781464
Why did Hideyoshi cover for her then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781475
He was getting some on the side for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781408
The fucking game didn't end right there because there was a whole next day, during which Battler investigated the crime scenes.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781464
How did she killed Eva and Hideyoshi? Isn't it too dangerous for the culprit to hide in the room after committing the crime? They could have searched, you know.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm EMOTIONAL now because I have MERCHANDISING CLOUT!!

[Anonymous No.]

You guys all are idiot.

You top-knotch detectives who provides theories with many loopholes around is better to propose the answer for Beato's epitaph.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4783764
Don't know the runes, sorry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4783764
beato epitaph=b0mb

[Anonymous No.]

Rosa is the culprit

[Anonymous No.]

>>4783853

[Anonymous No.]

>>4781464

Love how everyone ignored this explanation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4786645
Because it's more interesting to discuss Doubletrice VS Shkannontrice

It IS a pretty solid blue, though

[Anonymous No.]

>>4787190

That explanation ties into >>4781388 which is an alternate Doubletrice theory that's completely Shkanonless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4786645
It's hard to deny any Shannon or Kanon theory for episode 1. However:
>This is supported by the four she leaves alive, the four she was closest to
They only left because Natsuhi didn't banish them from the study because of the letter. If some of them were not lucky enough they would be with servants and Maria. Also: >>4781578

[Anonymous No.]

>>4789373

Hides under the bed. Easy solution to the closed room, and the use of the witch legend made them scared enough to not search. By this point, Shannon's a bit off her rocker. Faking her death in the shed is equally easy to be found out by--all they'd have had to do is check her more closely. But again, due to the hysteria the killings created, no one checked.

Remember, the greater the risk, the more powerful the magic. Shannon'd probably heard that line from Kinzo a thousand times.