Humans, Youkai and the Gods

[Anonymous No.]

If I understand this correctly, this is how everything came to be according to ZUN.

We have a human, a caveman if you will. He is sitting alone, hiding in some damp and rancid cave, hoping that he will not be the morsel of something big, hungry, and with very sharp teeth and claws. This fear grows as the night passes, and from this fear a Youkai is born.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711189
Yeah, pretty much. This isn't a new idea, ZUN just stole it from others.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711189
Fear leads to anger
Anger leads to hate
Hate leads to poofy hats

[Anonymous No.]

Now that the night has passed, the same caveman comes out and he is hungry. He looks for anything too fill his grumbling stomach, when he stumbles upon a bush filled with berries. He marvels at his luck, and happily eats. From the bottom of his mind, he hopes that someone or something, out there, is looking out for him. From this hope, he envisions something akin to a god, the god of berries, who makes these bushes appear here and there so he can eat.

From this primitive faith, a god is born.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

Fear is the most powerful emotion in the world. Man has always been afraid of the night, and what lurks within it.

[Anonymous No.]

I've always imagined Rumia to be extremely old. Or at least her first incarnation.
Fear of the Dark is one of humanity's most ancient fears, after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711265
An old fear, yes, but a very weakened one.

After all, when was the last time you feared the dark when you have all those light bulbs around you?

This is why Rumia is such a weak and useless Youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711285
Makes sense.

[Anonymous No.]

What about the Lunarians though?

Aren't we to believe that the Legend of Kaguya-hime and her place on the moon exist?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711189
I recently read a Discworld novel (Hogfather) that deals with this.
Then there's American Gods.

Pretty interesting stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

Which canon source states that youkai come into being through the power of belief, rather than being quirks of nature?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711285

Don't forget she's sealed. Who knows how powerful she would get if somebody removed that seal.

[Necrobrotent No.]

I don't think I've ever been afraid of sunflowers or plants.

Nope. I mean Cavebro's might have been because half the ones they tried to eat were toxic enough to kill them but besides that I dunno.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711320

None.

[Anonymous No.]

Izzat "Khorne"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711285

Fear of the dark is still one of the most common fears. Don't forget that 2/3 of the world still live in medieval like environment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711337
Good. So where is OP going with this?

[Anonymous No.]

Of course, traditionally, youkai came to be when an organism reached a very, very old age (for their species). Of course, this can mesh with OP's statement quite well - perhaps the fear uses a sufficiently aged organism as a body to become a tangible youkai?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711320
>>4711337

I thought youkai, for the most part, couldn't survive outside of Gensokyo because people have largely stopped believing in them.

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

>We have a human, a caveman if you will. He is sitting alone, hiding in some damp and rancid cave, hoping that he will not be the morsel of something big, hungry, and with very sharp teeth and claws. This fear grows as the night passes, and from this fear a Youkai is born.

You know what he was afraid of.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711425
Given their description, yes.

The Strongest Kidnappers

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Encyclopedia:_Oni

[Anonymous No.]

inb4 powerlevelfags with their "hurr youkai and lunarians can smash you with one finger durr".

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711480
That's , like, what you want to argue man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711375
There are still a lot of youkai in the outside world and humans who believe in them.

[:3~ !RAKiSUtaAA No.]

>>4711189
>Humans, Youkai and the Gods
>Gods
>implying there is more than one God

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711320
Common sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711375
Faith hasn't really gone away. It is still there, but very faint.

I am surprised that there is no Boogieman Touhou though.

And after Hollywood, I doubt many people fear or take vampires seriously anymore. I suppose that is why Remilia and Co. went to Gensokyo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711507
>common sense
>Touhou
Yeah, right.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711557
Maids are mythical beings. So she must also fade away when the time comes.

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

>>4711328

While I don't recall them by heart, know there are scientific names for the fear of spiral bindings on notebooks, fear of eggshells and fear of fire trucks. And while I don't know if it has a scientific name, several people in my extended family suffer from mortal fear of escalators.
Just name it and there is bound to be at least someone who's afraid of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711572
;_;

[Anonymous No.]

I don't think you necessarily need to fear something for it to manifest as a youkai, you just need to believe in it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711598
Probably. Fairies are not fearsome.

The Gods must be much more frail, since they require faith, and not belief, to exist.

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

>>4711578

Sakuya was something else before she became a maid. If maidkind was to perish in some great holocaust, Sakuya would prevail.

By any means necessary.

[Shikieiki !!KvMSlptKvlj No.]

>>4711666
She's still a pedophile

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711375

No. It's canon they leave to hunt humans in the outside world pretty often. And that they could remove the barrier without much consequences.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711708
You think so? I believe it would lead to an all out war.

[Anonymous No.]

This is part of why magicians need to live without fear, or any emotion not under their control.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711722
He doesn't "believe", he knows. Read what ZUN writes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711708
Canon is bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

>No. It's canon they leave to hunt humans in the outside world pretty often. And that they could remove the barrier without much consequences.

It's not canon if you just say that it's canon. Do you have a reference here?

The same goes for the OP. I think your explanation is really great and I wouldn't mind if it was actually Touhou canon, but did ZUN ever say anything like this? And if so, where?

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>>4711771
>Do you have a reference here?
Why are you even trying to argue about Touhou if you haven't even read the canon material?

Yakumo Yukari
Mastermind behind the spiriting away
~character titles

The details of this contract are that the youkai will offer them humans from which to feed (*3); in return, the vampires will not attack humans living in Gensokyo.
3: It's said they are outside humans whose deaths are of no consequence (suicides, etc.)
Of course, even now, the contract remains in effect.
~PMiSS Vampire

+another source which I would need to find again.
~Youkai could easily break the border
~Youkai hunt humans outside (deaths treated as suicides/people gone missing)

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711771

>Thanks to their magical culture, youkai could easily breach the barrier around Gensokyo. However, they chose not to do so; in fact, they strengthened the seal in order to prevent more humans from entering.
>However, youkai eat humans and natural humans are favoured as delicacies. Teams of cooks regularly venture beyond the barrier to hunt humans. They apply many methods to conceal their existence from humans of the outer world; accidents and people who run away from home... There are too many humans today for anyone to notice when a few go missing.
>Thus, the age of humans and youkai began anew.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711811

I bet they are behind all supposed alien abductions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711189
If you read texts on the Kabbalah, what you just said is explained more clearly in detail.

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

>>4711832

Well... not quite all.

[Anonymous No.]

Another occulist named Konstantinos explains that "gods" are also made by humans.

Even if it is possible to summon the likes of the Egyptian gods, they are uncontrollably powerful.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711839
Pretty much every magical system has the same(or a similar) way of explaining that. I personally like the idea of demons representing flaws in humanity, flaws to be defeated for enlightenment to be reached.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711858
Those exist as inner demons. Inner meaning THEY ARE INSIDE YOUR HEAD RIGHT NOW.

PS: You'll never beat them. Only buddhas have done so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>"EGREGORE: An engergized astral form produced consciously or unconsciously by human agency. In particular, (a) a strongly characterized form, usually an archetypal image, produced by the imaginative and emotional energies of a religious or magical group collectively, or (b) an astral shape of any kind, deliberately formulated by a magician to carry a specific force

[Anonymous No.]

>>"Any symbolic pattern that has served as a focus for human emotion and energy will build up an egergore of its own over time, and the more energy that is put into such a pattern, the more potent the egregor that will form around it. The gods and goddesses of every religion, past and present, are at the centers of vast egregors charged with specific kinds of power. This power is defined by, and contacted through, the traditional symbolism of the deity in question."

[Anonymous No.]

>>Through the imagination and remembering the dead, either through praise, adoration, mourning etc., imaginary picture forms of the dead are created and are given life, which, when often repeated, have a fairly long life span. These created picture forms are called phantoms. This type of phantom is one which makes itself known to the spiritualists, necromancer, sorcerer etc. Also goblins and ghosts are nothing but phantoms, which nourish, condense and maintain themselves through the attentiveness of the survivors, as it is the case with schemata.

As for other info, read up on
pp. 13-15 at

http://books.google.ca/books?id=QQDg_6mz3PcC&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=godforms+konstantinos&a
mp;source=bl&ots=FqCZ7ym99n&sig=i0Lrsb6bI05quse7--vRFci4O44&hl=en&ei=PyupS8vdHIiXtge
By_ySAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&
amp;f=false

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711874
Yes, personal demons.

And one doesn't need to be of any special birth or destiny to improve themselves and overcome their personal demons. To call enlightenment an exclusive club is a claim that no one can hold up.

[Anonymous No.]

There's this other occult system that basically describes creating magical entities by using semen and those sort of bodily fluids.

etc etc etc.

IOTW, a lot of Western occult texts mention artificial youkai creation, basically.

Also means Kogasa can be better sustained through receiving sex instead of surprising people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711924
>he believes he can overcome his personal demons without achieving inner enlightenment

[Anonymous No.]

http://hubpages.com/hub/What-is-an-egregore

More info on egregores. This shit applies to Suwako and Kanako.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711929
Golems? That weird named thing that Ilya from FSN is supposed to be?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711929
Succubi feed off of the intense feelings and emotions of sexual release. Egregores are called plenty of different things in different spiritual systems, from constructs to thoughtforms.

It's a concept that is universal to all magical systems.

[Anonymous No.]

Has anyone heard of an time-manipulating egregore called Fotamecus?

http://headforred.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html

[Anonymous No.]

>>4711939
>Implying those two are not the same thing

[Anonymous No.]

"this is an egregore created by a group of Chaos Magicians on their way to a metal concert one night. It was supposed to compress the time it took to get there, and, initially, they siphoned off the emanations from the crowd at the concert to feed it."

IOTW, let's create a Suwako Moriya.

tkforums.com /index.php? topic=991

[Anonymous No.]

>>4712029
Chaos magicians are crazy funny. Did you hear about Goflowolfog? He's a spirit made to fix traffic jams, and is represented as a cat with sunglasses on a skateboard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4712054
>cat with sunglasses on a skateboard
Sounds to me like Goflowolfog is one cool cat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4712094
Welcome to Chaos Burger, home of the Chaos Burger, can I take your order?

[Anonymous No.]

Are we having an occult thread?

On /jp/?

I love you guys.

[Anonymous No.]

I guess all this occult talk makes Touhou make more sense now huh?

Youkai = phantoms, egregores....

[Anonymous No.]

Let's start worshipping and evoking Suwako so we can officially have a /jp/ goddess.

[Anonymous No.]

All these folks spilling semen on figurines and images of 2d girls are basically creating their own phantoms unwittingly

[Anonymous No.]

The way I look at it, it's not only fear, but emotion and belief. Feel some emotion at its strongest, and either you or the object of your emotions turns into a demon. Anger ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiyohime ), covetousness ( http://www.sacred-texts.com/shi/kwaidan/kwai07.htm ), hunger (certain rituals to bind a dog spirit to yourself includes starving the beast with a feast just outside its reach and then charming the newly formed ghost with food), pride (certain tales about tengu), jealousy and attachment (a whole slew of ghosts) and so on.

Hell, even people after you dick around with your life. Ryogen went from some random monk to the king of demons in like 300 years.

[Anonymous No.]

Youkai are weak!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4712357
I shall draw the summoning circle at once!

[Anonymous No.]

>let's make an egregore guise

We already have. Memes kinda fit the definition.

Which means the most significant of the egregores is CIRNO LOL BAKA BAKA 9 GET

[Anonymous No.]

>>4712429
Cirno dun deserve goddesshood.

Suwako is the best.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4712432
Quickly, prepare the Suwako egregore!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4712436
Let's organize this.

If you wish to worship Suwako and Kanako, every Sunday you must spend at least two hours praying to them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4712664
>If you wish to worship Suwako and Kanako, every Sunday you must spend at least two hours fapping to them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4712671
No, fap as often as your supply of semen gets replenished.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4712671

>If you wish to worship Suwako, every Sunday you must spend at least two hours fucking her.

[Anonymous No.]

Let the occult rituals begin! Bring Suwako into the world!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4714685
Unless we screw up and summon someone we did not want.

[Anonymous No.]

Hmm, we can jump-start an egregore by using the crowds at Comiket as fuel.

That's easily more than ten times the fuel used by Fotamecus at that rock concert.

And if we're patient enough we can do this for each Comiket day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4713911
It won't be worthy of Suwako or Kanako unless you go without for at least a few days. Preferably a week.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4717501
Must offer to the Mishaguji!