/07/th Expansion Thread

[Anonymous No.]

Discussion concerning Higurashi, Umineko, Ciconia, Rose Guns Days, Higanbana, TRianThology, and all other 07th Expansion works.

07th Expansion archive:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Apo9jt_5n1kcbruVfFQLmtYesrY?e=q2ARE6
Password: 07

Old archive backup at:
magnet: xt=urn:btih:311bb86e9f983a9393cca7d2190233c5b86a872c&dn=07th%20Expansion%20archive&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.opentrackr.org%3a1337%2fannounce

07th Links:
https://pastebin.com/XjcX45p6
Umineko colored truths script:
https://controlc.com/27143a5a

Previous thread: >>46122567

[Anonymous No.]

>>46136685
NIGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSSS KILLLLLLLALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLNIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSS

[Anonymous No.]

AIIIIEEEEEE NANNIES GOMENNE GOMENNE WON'T SAY N-WORDU AGAINU

[Anonymous No.]

1 Rika thread please

[Anonymous No.]

post more pornographic pictures of higurashi girls thank you

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137142

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137172
Fun fact: there are 3 bottles

[Anonymous No.]

What if Beatrice was a girl?
How would umineko change?

[Anonymous No.]

What if sperg killed himself?
How would /07/th change?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137452
Nothing, not even Beatorice's gender.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137494
>no more shitka spam
/07/th would improve.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137452
She wouldn't have schizoid out since she would only have damage to the outside of her vagina leaving her womb and eggs intact and able to have kids

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137521
>shitka
Retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137524
Kinzo could've raped her and the tragedy would still happen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137531
Yeah, she's that too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137524
Hello, rat. I know you haven't read the vn, but the injury was to the ABDOMEN. Obsessed tranny freak.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137531
Retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137452
Nothing would change.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137547
Kinzo never raped Lion though and severely raised her to be the next head

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137649
Because Lion had a benis.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46136685
Is that amogus on the right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137654
Wrong, freak.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137654
only in your headcanon, homosex.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137654
Go back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137672
>>46137675
>>46137689
speed readers

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137711
>speedreaders
You're a tertiary retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137745
I literally buy umineko merchandise and cosplay.
Retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137745
He's literally incapable of reading a visual novel as long as Higurashi or Umineko with that broken zoomer brain of his.
His obsession with Tatarigoroshi probably means that he dropped the VN at that point due to exhaustion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137521
>>46137573
>>46137614
Nice one shitokorat. Why do you target me

[Anonymous No.]

>rika posting is somehow spam

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137614
furude unka is now her official /07/th name

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137614
Mion almost saved the show...

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137790
He's obsessed with this chapter because it's focused on shitoko

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137920
rat
>>46137711
nice apple product, rat

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137830
sup, shitoko obsessed cordteam, why the fuck do you still target Rika? what the fuck is your brain rat's problem?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

why cord and angefags are vile?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46138112
>>46138163
poopka

[Anonymous No.]

>>46138760
breathe cyanide

[Anonymous No.]

>>46136685
Like FUCK this design is greater than sex, this design appeals to all the right male instincts, if you're a man and see this thing you'll just have to stop and admire it (maybe even go full basedface).
I wish they'd have made proper sequels to Adventure all these years with the cast growing up like it's DBZ and the mons training to get stronger as time goes on, Wargreymon should be as big as Goku.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46138935
Black Wargreymon is a fucking beast designwise, too bad that he's a canonical jobber.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46138910
Why so defensive?
Just tell us how great your wife is if she's that amazing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139108
shut up fbcuck
Rika is my Rika

[Anonymous No.]

>>46136685

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139143
Eagerly awaiting for world peace, so I can read Phase 2!

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137768
Sperg on the left and Det on the right

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137768
>>46139399
>>46137711
>>46137689
>>46137654
what the fuck is wrong with this normalfag pisshole

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137768
Oh my God these trans queens are so beautiful...

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139536
>>46139399
>>46137768
Looking heckin cute and valid!

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139584
200kg

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139473
rikaschizo

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139594
Fat fucking slampig

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139608
(you) because all of these are you

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139623
i'm not angefag tho

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139626
i don't get it

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139635
the niggas ruining 07th, rikatard and angefag along with the discordshitters, they contribute with nothing but image spam.

[Satoko aka fbfag = MAPACHE "KisaraSis" Judai is multiversal (Forma de Graveyard Mammoth) GX IS CANON No.]

This is how I sleep knowing that the magic battles are the best part of Umineko and Higurashi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139646
>>46139662
and so you

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139646
>>46139662
>>46137711
>>46137768
>>46138935
>>46139089
sure shitokonigger, fucker
stop coming here, we're not your comrades. cancerous fucking tertiary

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139594
Imagine raping this little piggy and hearing her squeals

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139668
>>46139678
>i'll mass reply different anons to show my point
It's embarrassing, only a schizo would do such thing. HOHOHOHOHO.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139646
is angefag as bad as rikafag and ratcord?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139702
He is a resident /trash/ poster

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139646
Rikagro is just a genuine tard though, angefag at least is polite and talks about his waifu in a way that isn't just a sixteen year old raging about how his totally unique favourite character is the best thing in all of fiction.
See: when someone actually tries to discuss Umi in any capacity and rikasperg tards out and demands someone talk about rika.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139716

? I don't use /trash/. I just want to talk about Umineko and post Ange

[Satoko aka fbfag = MAPACHE "KisaraSis" Judai is multiversal (Forma de Graveyard Mammoth) GX IS CANON No.]

>>46139702
I hadn't seen them before, well, I don't remember, but Ange is as much SEX as Gou Satoko so they're good on my list.
When reading Umineko episode 4 I really liked to self insert as her bodyguard, Amakusa, and just molest her in the car or the room while she was sleeping.
Imagine her waking up to Amakusa caressing her thighs and she's just shocked with a disgusted expression as he smirks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139735
sorry anon, the discord still hasn't updated their bait so they're talking about an angefag from several years ago (that totally wasn't a plant no siree)

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139702
Yes, he made blacked edits of her and spammed them here

[Anonymous No.]

Does each higurashi chapter focus in one character? I'm on the beginning of 2 and I noticed that it's focusing more on Mion instead of Rena

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139754
I like to post Ange when said discord is acting up so there's at least something nice in the thread. I know not everyone likes her but some people do at least. I always end up getting accused of random stuff though..

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139772
Definitely not someone falseflagging because they have a hateboner for Umi. Not at all.
Not like there's a notible website that is full of fags that have nothing better to do than stir up yet more shit on a cancerous general on a mongolian goat fucking board. Not at all.

[Satoko aka fbfag = MAPACHE "KisaraSis" Judai is multiversal (Forma de Graveyard Mammoth) GX IS CANON No.]

>>46139779
Yes, it's like fate stay night routes. Other characters are obviously still important but you get more story on specific ones each chapter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139784
unfortunately that's just how these fags are, they've all got to try and match characters to identities. and identities to anons, until eventually you could post dlanor and get dogpiled by three different schizos thinking you're a straight match for the identity of their 'dlanorfag', for example, and even if you're obviously not they'll still act like you are just because it gives them an avenue to keep on talking about dumb shit that's blatantly untrue in hopes of... i dunno, annoying people? god knows with these faggots anymore
i appreciate you posting ange though, nice to see someone is still capable of liking a character and not becoming absolutely deranged here

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139794
>>46139829
Actual mental illness holy shit no wonder you're an angefag

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139829
avatarfags get what they deserve. I don't get why they come to 4chan and try to built an identity.

[Anonymous No.]

I wonder how high school Ange would react to being stripped naked by her bullies and forced to walk around the school like that, her hairy pussy and pathetic ass crack exposed as everyone mocks her. Her decently sized breasts bouncing in a lewd way as someone plays with them. Her naked body being kicked and punched by girls her age as she falls to the floor and starts crying.

I mean, if a witch tortured her to the point of making her faint or scream in agony, that'd be understandable. If a witch killed her entire family in front of her, she'd start crying and screaming in sorrow. But how the fuck would she react when she finds herself butt naked in front of her entire class? It's so unpredictable! It's such an awkward situation, she would probably behave erratically.

On one hand, she'd want to scream, cover herself or try to get away from the bullies. But on the other hand, her life is already ruined and there is no point in fighting back anymore. She may as well enjoy her own humiliation in a twisted way and do everything they tell her to do, being reduced to furniture. Giving up on her humanity and pride is the only way to get over the fact that she's butt naked in front of everyone. Otherwise, she'd have to bear the pain of being so thoroughly humiliated while she still values her dignity.

The unpredictability of a broken Ushiromiya Angste! Lewd! I bet her reaction would be super fun to watch, as her confused mind alternates between trying to preserve her dignity and giving up on it. She may even collapse because the situation is so overwhelming.

Can you imagine reading that whole scene from Ange's perspective? Becoming invested in a character's story and wanting her to succeed only to see her experience a degrading humiliation that crushes all her hopes is the best! It gives the story a bad ending that makes you feel awful, but at the same time you kinda enjoy the trainwreck because it's such an intense scene where you get to see a human being reduced to a worthless piece of meat. Lewd!

Imagine Maria and Mammon seeing all of that. Ange will never be able to have a conversation with them ever again, because she'll be really embarrassed. They witnessed her degradation, they heard her pathetic begging and screaming as one of the bullies forced pencils into her ass while another filmed everything with a 90s video camera.

Umineko is such a lewd series. Ryukishi belongs in a mental institution. What do you think, everyone?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139813
Funny because chapter 1, which focused on Rena, left me with more questions than answers about her XD (please no spoilers)

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139779
>>46139857
>Please no spoilers
What are you doing here if you haven't finished the VN yet? This is a spoiler filled general so it's only a matter of time before something slips. Do you have the 07th mod installed with voice acting anon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139728
sup angefag.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139865
I only came here to ask this. I have the mod but only to use the original sprites

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139870
Not him.
This >>46139784 is (I think).
Out of all the places, I thought /jp/ was the best at figuring out who someone was via posting style.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46136685

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139889
Amogus

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139882
I see, I recommend getting the voice acting patch installed as well since it does a fantastic job later on during certain emotional scenes but it's up to you. But for your question you're kinda right but telling you anymore would be a spoiler keep on reading and post your thoughts on Tatarigoroshi once you finish that chapter! What are your thoughts on the characters so far and who's your favorite!

[Anonymous No.]

I hate used goods

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139909
Go back to umicord retard

[Anonymous No.]

The what?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139694
says the freak who thinks everyone in here are from your shitholecord

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139889

[Anonymous No.]

What was the blonde Sayo anyway?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46136685
sus

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139855
This but unironically, the VN didn't go far enough with the bullying. In your Pic related I'd have her stripped naked and make her cry by mocking her fat cow tits. That's usually a positive trait, but you just KNOW she'd be extremely self-aware of every inch of her body after being bullied so much so she'd legit start crying tears of rage and shame at her body being considered that of a lewd whore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46140543
Favorite character?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46140543
Kasumi made this post

[Anonymous No.]

>>46140543
>>46140844
Quick, someone get Ange before she-
Damnit too late.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139901
>Tatarigoroshi
Why this one? This is not the third chapter?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46140827
Bejita

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139884
whatever you say, angefag.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139884
/07/th is the exception to that rule, anons here couldn't tell a goat from ryukishi if they both posted here

[Anonymous No.]

How do I git gud at Okonogi clicker?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139900
Dead first babys meme

[Anonymous No.]

>>46139750
>>46139694
>>46139662
>>46139608
>>46139702
>>46139646
Nice one really nice youre just as bad, nornalnigger cancer larper shitokonigger
Nice one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142240

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142286
>shtsugou new

[Anonymous No.]

RIKA?
DID YOU SAY RIKA?
I HECKING LOVE RIKA!
AND I HATE SHITOKO!
I LOVE RIKA!
RIKA! RIKA BIKA!
BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIK!
NANO DESU!!!!
NIPA!!!!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142359
I say this but I don't look like this

[Anonymous No.]

OMG NO IT'S SHITOKO!!!
GET SHITOKO OUT OF HERE THIS IS A RIKA ZONE!!!?!
WTF!!
REMOVE THE SHITOKO!!!!!

[Anonymous No.]

Good morning sirs. Ange is still a fat slut.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142404
>>46142359
As i thought, fbcuck is q qa reject newcancer

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142449
Youre angefag tho

[Satako=NEFERPITOU(Mapache the FBfag) I'm the MOTHERFUCKING BATTLERCHAD No.]

>>46142518
That's not me, I've only talked about Digimon and how Ange's body is as lewd as Goutoko's, that I ship her with Amakusa and agreed that she should be stripped naked and shamed for those cowtits.

[Anonymous No.]

Schizo hours? Schizo hours.

[Anonymous No.]

New Mei stuff:
Event:
https://files.catbox.moe/e3wq0l.txt
Shion:
https://files.catbox.moe/ubt71u.txt
Natsumi:
https://files.catbox.moe/wq1r43.txt

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142626

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142630

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142639

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142647
Also Takano cards, no story yet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142651

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142668

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142676

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142626
It's weird how they haven't released that Chisame card.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137494
/07/th might as well die without its savior
>>46137689
Based. Simply based.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142873
kill yourself self-jerking shitokoniggerrat

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142882
Satoko will never be Erika

[Anonymous No.]

leaked Ange JAV tapes

[Anonymous No.]

Maria's secret lust for ***

[Anonymous No.]

Rosa's *** trip to *******

[Anonymous No.]

Shannon's dirty pleasure with *******

[Anonymous No.]

Bern's dirty past of *** and *****

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142286
>>46142626
>>46142630
Mion is the single best thing to have come out of Higurashi.
I wish she wouldn't have been done so dirty in Sotsugou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142984
BWC
>>46142999
fun
Denmark
>>46143011
Battler
>>46143029
Tom
Jerry

[Anonymous No.]

>>46143085
all correct

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142598
Thats you, little cancer

[Anonymous No.]

>>46143065
I think she's boring as hell, too pure and morally flawless of a character. Unless you count "too kind hearted and good-natured for Higurashi" as a flaw. Even if you claim that it's because she never had her own dedicated arc in the VN, Ooishi didn't either and he's a hell of a lot more interesting than Mion is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46143766
I disagree because Mion is cool. However, your poinrt also makes sens.e

[Anonymous No.]

>>46142359
>>46142404
Rika looks like this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144028
>shitoko
>annoying shit character
>annoying shit "fan"base

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144041
shitka fans are literally homosexuals

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144028
Don't reply to /qa/ reject "memes"

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144052
>shitka
Sorry, meant to say Shitoko

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144058
>replying rat

[Anonymous No.]

>Rika looks like this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144052
>bern
Nice falseflag, fbcuck

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144162
Shut the fuck up wanklord

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46143766
Nah, Mion's flaw is that she has no fucking spine and folds like a wet cloth in the face of any actual problems, unless she's constantly propped up by the others. She's an actual shit fucking leader and as soon as her family says "no", Mion completely gives up and mopes about how there's nothing they can do.
The real reason she's a shit character is because she never gets a character arc to get over it, and even in the story where her family, Minagoroshi gets the most focus as an antagonist, it's Keiichi and Rena who do all the actual work, so the best she has is Ryukishi trying to course correct in his joke of a finale, where she's just super cool and amazing and can fight professional soldiers and also shoot guns better than them despite it previously being established that her gun training was mostly just a bluff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144105
that's beatrice

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144175
>>46144162
I want to hug Ange and tell her everything is going to be OK.

And also that she should see other people instead of drooling over her missing brother. That's important too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144212
>missing
Battler is DEAD.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144212
she should see people like ME

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144212
It's so sad that she ends up forever alone. No one could pierce that wall in her heart in the end...

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144181
I think Mion's character is good, albeit very subtle, even if I prefer Shion and her parallels to Ange and Sayo. I can agree with her development being lacking but I just don't see it as much of a bad thing, I always felt that it was more of an intentional move on R07's part. She's a reliable pillar of comfort within the club she's created and she's already fairly strong mentally, being very firm and set in the way she's chosen to live, and her way of living to me is an example of the novels core messages and themes which is empathy and love. Like you said, she leans on Keiichi and ends up learning the things she should've been doing all along through him and this is where she grows at the very end, which she shows by allowing herself to really lead the club again once free from worry, it reaffirms her way of life once they come out victorious. I feel if Mion were to have her own arc where she stood up against her family and the medieval values and rules of the village, it'd also take away from Keiichi's purpose in the narrative which is to be an outsider's perspective that's able to break the mold and inspire change within the village where everything has operated the same way for so long.

It's subjective what you think of her but it's difficult to deny Mion's a paper blanket, there's a lot of character there even if it's not presented to you just an arc. I don't think giving her one was a necessity but she did get one in Miotsukishi where she learns to stand against her family by herself and it's more appropriate there imo considering it's a bonus arc. Even if Mion comes off as this fuck-off Genk girl at first, it always surprised me how much is learned about her through all the SOL in the vn, and the anime did her a huge disservice since it cut a lot of those scenes.

>>46144212
I just wanna see Ange happy is all

[Anonymous No.]

Angespammer replying to himself again

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144265
cute unka

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144268
>unka
I googled it and all i see is dragons, are you a lizard?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144279
unka is unko (poop) + rika
it's how we call rika here, newfag

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144305
Nice one, fbrat untoko

[Anonymous No.]

>>46137172
AI

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144417
Erika is Kiwifarms though

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

I dedicate this post to my beloved witch, Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

I dedicate all threads past and future to my beloved husband Satoko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144537
is he ok?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144074
LMAO

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144537
Shitoko is tranny? Goodo

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144431
Erika? Eh k?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46143766
>too pure and morally flawless of a character.
not morally flawless enough to not go along with most of the bullshit the Sonozaki family pulls. But of course, that's more because Mion folds under her family's pressure. Also she's a kid and isn't the one making these calls(despite being the successor)
It took the entire fucking village to get that stubborn bitch Oryou to change her mind about something

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144181
>even in the story where her family, Minagoroshi gets the most focus as an antagonist, it's Keiichi and Rena who do all the actual work
This still pisses me off, the perfect setup for Mion to finally grow some backbone and stand up to her family. Minagoroshi is the chapter where all the kids issues get avoided/fixed, after all. It would tie into her guilt over the Hojo situation as well.
I still love Mion but R07 really missed an opportunity there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144750
Ouryou wasn't stubborn, she had to put up that role, but she didn't hate Satoko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144844
that's exactly why she's stubborn, everyone was telling her it's over and the village doesn't need to shun this poor little girl anymore, and it takes the support of the whole village and Keiichi saying "I'll fucking kill you and let Mion take over" for her to finally back down.
Oryou was 100% ready to keep things as they were until she died, because she cares that much about pride and not being seen as weak by the village, even though no one actually hated Satoko.

[Anonymous No.]

rika is better, rikahaters
and don't use Rika pics like this>>46143766 in vain when the subject of the conversation has nothing to do with her

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145019
Witch fingers wrote this list.
Why else would it be in English?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145035
It's not in english, it's written in broken esl. So it was clearly made by Castiglioni.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145077
Bestrice helping Battora and Beato get together? KINO

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145090
Italians look like THAT?!
No seriously, why does she look germanic?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145077
>>46145090
Castiglioni, macaroni.
Go back to being dead and stay out of this.
You may have swiped Kinzo, but you're not getting his closest grandson.

>>46145115
Italy had a few migrations from germanic raiders, them being the Lombards and the Ostrogoths.
The Normans also invaded part of sicily, and you can find some blondes there as well.
And near the northern border there is a large number of ethnic germans who even speak german, albeit probably a hillbilly dialect that german germans would stick their nose up at.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145115
she is just from the North Italy

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145115
Yes, Americans have a distorted perception since all their migration came from southern Italy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145143
>You may have swiped Kinzo, but you're not getting his closest grandson.
She doesn't need to, her schizo granddaughter already did all the job

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145186
Not if his imouto has anything to say about it

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145147
They look so hot together. Kinzo and Beatrice truly were the pinnacle of mankind, it only went downhill from there...

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145211
>Not if his imouto has anything to say about it
what now?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145247
NOOOOOOOOOOO

[Anonymous No.]

Don't let Kinzo see this

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145247
...?
...!!!!
....!!!!!!! ###!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145348
cute shota

[Anonymous No.]

You are a dick-obsessed freak, rat

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145523
Hai, master

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145625
Bee, we see

[Anonymous No.]

>>46145523
>You are a dick-obsessed freak, rat
Rikabros, our response?

[Anonymous No.]

I've mentioned the parallel between Ange and Sayo in these threads recently but I feel like elaborating on it since I hardly see anyone talk about how crucial their connection really is, just some food for thought for anyone that's interested. Sayo spends her life constantly trying to look for the good in things in order to cope despite her misfortune, in a way that got increasingly warped. Sayo managed to find some happiness with the connections she had (Maria, George, Jessica), even as she planned out the massacre she saw it as a way to ''free everyone'' rather than to just get revenge on the family, but this worldview forced her to run from the bad while only focusing on the good. Meanwhile, Ange starts out as someone who can only see the negative aspects, thinking that only the one truth matters and that all else is meaningless and that the one culprit is surely a villain. She can't look at her life with the same love Sayo did and she believes that as long as she's sad, there can never be happiness. Like Sayo eventually, she's stuck in a worldview where different perspectives aren't mutually exclusive, and seeing things through different perspectives is a central theme in Umineko and it's how Battler reaches and understands the truth.

Sayo seems morally triumphant over Ange with this dynamic by being able to find happiness through love but her circumstances ended up being too much for her to bear, and both her and Ange end up in a similair mindset in feeling that there's nothing they can do, that they're doomed to forever be unhappy, because they each only focus on one side. But Sayo is both a success and a failure by representing Shannon and Kanon against each other as two oppossing sides with Kanon being more similair to Ange's cynical mindset while Shannon being more like what she should strive for, it proves different perspectives aren't mutually exclusive in the end. Sayo's mistake is the one Ange eventually learns not to make; She faces the sadness of her family's death but ilearns to eventually see happiness beyond it. It's why EP8 is called ''Twilight of the golden witch''. The end of Ange Ushiromiya's metaphorical journey in which she comes to accept the coexistence of light and darkness

Umineko's tragedy is Sayo following her love in a way that got increasingly warped. Sayo until the very end, despite her negativity, keeps looking for a bright side in things, eventually even believing Battler would come and understand her in the end. But even though she started from a more healthy ''I can see the good among the bad'', she was forced to keep running from everything she couldn't put a positive spin on, and eventually by hyperfocusing on only the positive aspects of things, she could no longer bear the negatives, eventually blinding her from the real love. Sayo is the cat that died. But Ange is the cat that learned from her death and eventually lived to see the blue in the ocean like Shannon did.

[Anonymous No.]

If I had a higher IQ, I would reply to this post with a well-constructed answer, but instead you can have this Enje

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146009
>>46145919
shit, I even failed to reply to the post

[Anonymous No.]

stop using ai, freak rat

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146009
Thanks, I appreciate it

[Anonymous No.]

I miss watching higurashi for the first time when I was 10 and thinking it's the edgiest shit in the world

[Anonymous No.]

love this

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146304
It's Febuary

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146310
have you been outside?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146314
Yeah. It's cold

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146276
The sad thing about this one is that it's actually funny and far more interesting dialogue than anything in Gousotsu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46136685
Amogus to the right

[Anonymous No.]

genx were a mistake

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146385
i mean gen alpha mindset>>46146366

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146358
it's a better version of Mion going L5 than what we actually got

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146458
not a homo, but would

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146477
>not a homo, would
ftfy

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146458
imagine dropping a live grenade right in the middle of that pile

[Anonymous No.]

>draw a girl
>make it behave like a girl
>don't call it a girl
>retards automatically assume it's a man
what went so fucking terribly wrong with you

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146458
>ruskie
sup fb
>>46146477
>>46146518
ratcord as well

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146458
Cute.
Umineko should've been an eroge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146534
I am not your boogeyman, shitka schizo

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146458
Not a single woman in that picture

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146538
erikashit

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146477 (Me)
>>46146539 (Me)
Forgot to add that I'm trans and huge Sato(ko x Tepp)ei fan.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146531
Being born and raised in 'murica does that to you. shitcord owner just woke up too

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146536
I REALLY like the look she's giving me

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146536
Saku should have been the canon eroge with multiple animated H scenes between Battler and either Beato, Ange or a tie between Asmodeus (Literally the embodiment of Lust, how could it not go well) or Lucy (Also an embodiment of lust, but you could get her all flustered and it'd be extremely cute.)
Oh, and Erika gets totally clamjammed. This is played up for laughs because no one loves a bratty know-it-all.
Secret extra stage is Lambda. Because why not fuck the blonde, she earned it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146579
secret secret extra stage: Aunt Kasumi

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146579
oioioioioioi that's fucked up man you can't exclude mammon like that

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146593
Fine, she can help Ange overcome her issues and brocon her way into his pants but only one (1) [Uno] {i} ero CG. And no penetration. Pazuri at most, mammon mammaries are too good a joke.

>>46146587
Not worth the busted kneecaps I'm afraid.
People who try and hurt Ange directly are not worth of the Big Battler Cock.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146552
cringe alcoholic hag

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146609

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146593
>>46146653
cringe newbie

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146667
Nearly posted this, but decided it was too cute to spend on a shitpost about an incestious 3-way in a hypothetical erogame.

There might be something wrong with me that I came up with this much detail on the spot.

[Anonymous No.]

Mammon and ange are really cute

[Anonymous No.]

I fucking despise Umifags shut up shut up SHUT UP

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146725
There'd be something wrong with you if you didn't.
Being detail-oriented and autistic are /07/th culture.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146735
Don't use Cuteion and Cuteion for your shitposting, rat.
We only despise Shitokofags here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146733
The stakes are very cute, Ange is extremely cute, and them together is just a big win for everyone.
Plus there's the whole subplot of Ange using greed to improve herself (A bit). Very cute when you look at that side of the coin as well, which is unusual.

>>46146743
Adoreable. As much as I like the remade sprites they can sometimes be a little stiff, and this artist has really put a new life into them.
All it took was redrawing them completely and changing the pose a bit.
Now it feels even more criminal that Ange realised the key to her own happiness too late.

>>46146741
I'm here forever aren't I.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146458
Imagine dropping Battler right in the middle of that pile

[Anonymous No.]

>>46146790
I think the alchemist sprites are good but they fail at carrying over some of that comfort a lot of the og sprites have. Like, OG sprite Ange looks really warm, meanwhile alchemist Ange looks more stiff like you said, but still good. It's a struggle for me to pick still whenever I decide to reread parts of Umineko because while I like the look of OG more, Alchemist made a bunch of sprites in different poses, more sprites with different expressions for characters who originally had very little (Genji for example) and new sprites like witch Ange. It's quality vs quantity, both have their benefits.

For Higu, the choice isn't nearly as hard for me, there I almost always pick OG. The Alchemist sprites look fine but you can really tell they were originally meant to be displayed on a DS with how simple they are, and a lot of the CG's are just flat out ugly. Alchemist Umineko looks so much better because that was actually meant for PS3 from the get-go

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147115
I read Umi with the PS3 version from the archive, and I have to say I think i've been spoiled.
The CG's are very nice, and having the backgrounds be consistent with the sprites' artstyle is a nice touch.
I did notice that some of the original backgrounds are a little more pleasing than the Alchemist ones, but since they're very clearly photos that have been traced over / put in a filter, it makes it all the more jarring to see the tumour hands, especially on Beato.
Battler also looks like a lesbian in the original, and don't even get me started on the Pachinko sprite.
PS3 Battler is the only version I can really get behind, and for that reason alone I'm in two minds about rereading Umi with the original sprites or not.

About the only real thing I can truly fault Alchemist for (in Umi, I have never read Higurashi) is the engrish for Dlanor is so hilarious I can't take her scenes seriously.
I cannot help but burst out laughing when the VA has trouble trying to pronounce "Great Equalizer".
I know Engrish is a sacred thing, but you'd think they'd have learned by now that they really need to take a few lessons in proper English pronunciation to avoid at least the worst of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147189
>Battler also looks like a lesbian in the original
No, he looks cute

[Anonymous No.]

Rika stinks like shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147115
honestly i think ange's one of the few characters where that weird stiffness in the alchemist sprites stands out, it seems almost on purpose to me as a way of showing her cold exterior that's been cultivated by her tragic circumstances but it can be a little weird at some points
at the same time though, i think it lends to a better match to the text at other points, this crying sprite for example perfectly matches the situation it's from in a more 'realistic' manner compared to the goofy looking ryukishi original with its singular tear drop, it lends to the emotional moment far better than the anime one tear cliche
i think the cold aesthetic works better for ange, with the life she's lived and the personality she has 'warm' just doesn't match really
>>46147189
considering dlanor's whole thing with DIE THE DEATH i kinda imagine that shit was on purpose, she's already engrish enough it'd be even weirder if it was actually pronounced properly somehow

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147218
Only the Maebara mansion had modern indoor plumbing. The rest bathed in the river once a year.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147225
Yeah, you make a good point, I was mainly thinking of the scenes where Ange is somewhat happy, playing with Maria and the stakes or her conversation with Mammon on the boat, those small happy EP4 moments I really value with Ange so I'm a little biased because I think those look better with OG. Also it eventually fits her heartwarming conclusion but that's all the way at the end. For the majority of the story, Ange does have a very cold and aloof exterior; The og sprites give off this vibe too but Alchemist does better on this side. Regardless, Ange tugs on my heartstrings either way. And yeah again, Alchemist has more variety with sprites that are able to fit a lot of scenes better. Even though Beatrice's OG laugh is iconic, she gets so many more expression in alchemist and its great.

>>46147189
Fair enough, I'd say try it out with the OG sprites for a bit and if it's really too jarring, you can always swap back to alchemist. Honestly, I think some of the Pachinko sprites look okay but I cannot get over this weird jawline they gave a lot of the characters like Beato and the Stakes. Their faces just look off and it really puts me off, which is a shame considering I do like pachinko Battler and Ange. Dlanors VA also never really bothered me considering the VA in wtc overall is actually fucking incredible. I don't mind some goofy lines, it really adds to the charm for me personally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147218
im genuinely thinking you're that artist, spergnigger. can you fuck off? your shitoko is unhinged and stop showing false reality when your piece of shit cunt is far far worst

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147218
more like stinka

[Anonymous No.]

why woould you be a erika/mion/shion/rena/anyone else fag besides a shitokofag who creating hateful remarks towards Rika? it's too obvious
>>46147372
kill yourself can you please leave me alone and stop creating fake news? your cunt is way worst. she is literally the embodiment of evil

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147335
I did briefly go through the original version to see Jessica's original concert outfit, since I got very confused playing that stage in Golden Fantasia.
I'll wait some time before rereading the whole thing properly though, since I remember too much to truly enjoy trying to solve the puzzles again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147382
i was here before you, leave /07/th yourself, faggot

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147512
you leave for spreading Rika hate shit you literal parasite in form of a human being. rat/fbcuck/uminigger
>i was here before!
only a vile beast would confirm such newfag remarks. kill. your. self.

[Anonymous No.]

What is love?

[Anonymous No.]

>THAT'S your "bwc"!? It's smaller than my pinkie. You're a joke timmy, take your tiny white clit and get out of my room and tell Tyrone to come over instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147647
Where were you in the 2018 threads? 2013? Even Italianon is older than you. At least he was somewhat entertaining.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147650
I'll take "What I feel when I see Ange" for $50 please, Steve.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147650
Being able to face both sadness and happiness without mutually excluding the two, seeing the world through multiple lenses, not just your own. That way, you can come to an understanding. Also >>46147670 this

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147647
>rat/fbcuck/uminigger
i don't know what all this gay shit means, but rika a shit
thanks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147650
i'm hoping if i read enough light novels i'll figure it out one day

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147650
don't hurt me.. no more

[Anonymous No.]

>sperg is posting his racecuck fantasies again

[Anonymous No.]

>racebait posted
>immediately blames me
Self-projection eh kraut?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147767
Umineko fans are freaks

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147794
>>46147767
Why samefag?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147767

[Anonymous No.]

Good night. I'm hungry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147809
Good night, I'm going to bed too. Make sure to grab a midnight snack

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147816
>>46147809
Rare instance of 07th anons being nice to each other.
Might buy a lottery ticket. Probably not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147667
is that how you're playing? playing guess game with random numbers? you're the newcancer who bringing this shit you fuck.
>>46147678
>>46147804
nice fucking try you local shitposter samefagigng nigger replying twice. not even one single figurine

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147804
>>46147767
>>46147678
>>46147667
>bringing namefags
>creating bullshit
you're crazy, get help and shitoko a shitoko and has zero figures
literally stop posting in here for 10 years and stop taking hrt advices from your cord colony

rat/fbcuck/uminigger

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147916
>>46147929
lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>46147992
dude, there's not even that much text there... are you really having problems reading that much...?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148013
time is finite, i will continue to ignore the sperg and shit on rika, because Satoko is miles better.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm new here can someone give me a qrd on all the namefags?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148063
Rikaschizo and satogro.
Everyone else is a sideshow to the two main retards who duke it out every day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144750
>not morally flawless enough to not go along with most of the bullshit the Sonozaki family pulls. But of course, that's more because Mion folds under her family's pressure.
She confronted her granny when she still thought they had killed Satoshi. They don't actually do criminal things (other than murder Rina but Mion apparently never heard of that one), they just pretend they do for the sake of keeping up appearances. Mion didn't even obey her granny when she told her to not get close to those dirty Houjous and instead plays with Satoko every day. So no, I wouldn't say Mion's morality aligns even remotely with her family's.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148063
rikaschizo is the rat/fbcuck/uminigger
satogro is the anon defending /07/th

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148063
sperg/Rat, Satokei obsessed discorder with a hateboner for umineko and 07th expansion in general, he raids this place with his discord all the time thinking hes doing the threads a service when everyone outside of his echo chamber despises him

rikafag/rikaschizo who just posts nonsensical shit about rika and attacks anything that isnt about her, is attracted to bait like a moth is to light

and more recently angeposter/angefag who isn't as bad, just spams ange and ange related discussion, like anon said the main show is the two retards above.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148119
I think there are around three people that have ended up discussing Ange now.
I hate to say it, but she's really grown on me and now I like her a lot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148119
>the main show
More like the cancer that is killing the thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148135
When Rome burns and you are stuck without a bucket, is it not a man's right to watch the flames?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148094
>They don't actually do criminal things (other than murder Rina but Mion apparently never heard of that one), they just pretend they do for the sake of keeping up appearances.
I don't think that's the case. The Sonozakis are definitely involved in the underworld, at least ever since Akane married into it. But they just take credit for all the shady shit that happens(more like they just don't shut down rumors) to appear more powerful.
It's hard to say exactly how deep this goes, but they've definitely killed people who cross them, and Mion has talked about some less than reputable businesses of theirs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148133
I hate her even more thanks to your discussions. Thanks for enlightening what a little fat bitch she is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148144
You are a villain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148133
i like talking about characters to people who seem to genuinely love them, what can i say
plus it seems to make the fags who mindlessly shit on ange because it's "thread tradition" or whatever mad which is always a bonus

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148144
Same, I was indifferent to her at first but I want more posts humiliating the fat retard

[Anonymous No.]

Mion's behavior is very suspicious in 5. I don't think all of that is Shion's hallucinations setting in. The way she talks to Shion after being locked up is aggressive instead of sympathetic. She's trying to scare Shion into opening the cell, and not until the very last moment before her death does Mion tell the full truth. Why? These supposed two halves to a whole, to the point that one took fingernail torture so the other didn't suffer alone. Why didn't Mion just fucking tell Shion everything right away?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148154
Love her or hate her, she's the main protagonist on one side of Umi's coin. There's no getting around that without neglecting the half, and therefore the whole of the story as it was intended.
And it is funny to watch people work themselves into a frenzy over something like that. In a pitiable way, but still kinda funny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148135
well yeah, but its like a car crash, its awful but you cant help but look

>>46148133
>>46148154
i don't feel much towards ange but i can admire the dedication to posting and writing about her everyday, not like theres much else to look forward to here. and it seems to work considering ange has gotten more popular lately

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148173
I have to imagine it's because Mion is scared out of her mind, locked in a dungeon watching Shion kill and torture people. She initially puts on a tough front to get Shion to let her out, but obviously that doesn't work.
Maybe she's scared of how Shion would react to the truth of the Sonozakis not being involved, and the knowledge that Mion kept this from her the whole time.
After all, finding this out breaks Shion when she realizes that all of this has probably been for nothing and she was barking up the wrong tree the whole time(but she blocks that out and goes back to feeding her paranoia/anger).

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148204
Come for the brocon jokes, stay for the shockingly well thought musings on Umineko.
I know I did.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46144181
>Mion's flaw
I said morally flawless, as in, she's almost always meant to be the voice of reason, she only gets into predicaments because other people wronged her, we're always supposed to feel sorry for her and she's a saint compared to every other character. I'm not talking about "flaws" as in "how further away from an invincible mary sue you are" you know. Every other character has lapses of judgment and questionable choices that we as an audience are meant to find disagreeable. Pretty much the only times Mion feels like a flawed human being to me instead of an impossibly good saint is in Tatari after Ooishi hurts Keiichi and gets angry at two tiny elementary schoolers for not fighting a giant oaf of a policeman, as well as when the Yamainu are about to kill Shion in Matsuri and Mion proceeds to explode all over Keiichi and Rena before breaking down.

[Anonymous No.]

I will never like your fat gremlin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148307
You don't think inaction due to cowardice reflects poorly on someone's morals and judgement?
Well, not in every situation, but what about when Mion learns about Teppei coming back and for some reason just doesn't tell the others? This is while they're worried about Satoko's behavior.
She also covers for her friends after they murder people by playing corpse janitor in a few chapters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148142
We know they've killed people before, but the point here is that Mion doesn't know. She's 100% convinced that they didn't kill Satoshi solely because her granny told her, and it's also why she claimed her family would never do something as nefarious as causing the yearly curse, which as far as we're aware are the only killings in recent history that she even knows of. We know she's being genuine because she makes these claims knowing full well they have a fucking medieval torture chamber, she trusts her granny that much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148465
Mion believing that her family did not kill Satoshi and believing that they've never killed people before are two different things. It's hard to say for sure either way, because besides alluding to some illegal shit they do, Mion doesn't really explain her feelings on that side of her family's dealings. She usually talks more about the dark past of the village as a whole.
But I think having a medieval dungeon and an entire armory filled with weapons is proof enough that Mion has an idea of what's going on. I mean, those aren't just for show.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148369
Well no, considering the long argument she had with Keiichi regarding how to deal with Satoko's situation, it shows that she just thinks the situation is impossible to solve, not because her morality tells her that she shouldn't help her friends. I mean, we know that the solution to the Satoko problem ended up being just them issuing a complaint to child welfare services (with enough support), but the moment it gets brought up in Minagoroshi, Mion's immediately on board, proving that her morality was always in the right side, she just felt helpless before because she didn't know what to do.
>She also covers for her friends after they murder people by playing corpse janitor in a few chapters.
We as an audience are meant sympathize with these even if only in part, because they were done towards horrible monsters (Teppei and Rina) to save a life, we know as per Mina that Mion is against murder. We're not talking societal laws here when talking morality, otherwise you'd have me saying that the entire Sonozaki family should be in jail.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148529
>and believing that they've never killed people before are two different things.
But she's convinced that they didn't cause the yearly murders for no reason other than assumptions through hearsay. There'd be no reason for her to trust granny on that claim if she thought her family were a bunch of murderers. She hates talking the village's dark murderous past precisely because she thinks her family isn't like that anymore and would only make them and the village look bad if it gets brought up. The fact that she knows about the torture dungeon and STILL claims her family couldn't have caused the yearly murders despite having zero evidence shows that she has blind devotion in them and that the dungeon didn't change her opinion at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148565
>but the moment it gets brought up in Minagoroshi, Mion's immediately on board, proving that her morality was always in the right side

I mean, she wanted to do it, but she didn't have courage to stand up to her family for it.

The whole Teppei scenario is really odd if you start thinking about it though. If she can send a random bike gang running, Teppei entering in Hinamizawa is something that should never happen, especially since she knows he's coming.

Also, an action that she takes that is portrayed negatively is her attempt to hide the curse deaths in Onikakushi and Watanagashi (while she outright tells Keiichi about them in Tatari).

[Anonymous No.]

Give it to me.
That thing.
Your Phase 2.
https://voca.ro/105VoNnSlmv5

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148599
I dunno man, I can't imagine Mion can have her people dig up bodies or watch Shion/Kasai handle weapons like professionals and not know her family kills people, or at the very least they did years prior. She knows they're yakuza, she's got the tattoo to prove it.
But at the same time, I believe Mion can trust Oryou strongly enough that they are not involved in the curse deaths, after she flipped the fuck out on her after Satoshi's disappearance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148629
>she wanted to do it,
Did she even know that option existed? I don't think it even gets brought up in Tatari at all, no character knows about it other than Keiichi's parents, who tell him about it and he then proceeds to tell everyone at school. The only part she was actually reluctant about was having to convince granny after the first few visits to the child welfare center proved ineffective, but she still showed up anyway.
>The whole Teppei scenario is really odd if you start thinking about it though. If she can send a random bike gang running, Teppei entering in Hinamizawa is something that should never happen, especially since she knows he's coming.
I don't think Mion could even do that considering it'd be about convincing the villagers to protect a Houjou, but more importantly the story doesn't acknowledge this in the slightest so there's no claims against Mion's morality here even in-universe. In fact, there's a whole scene where Rena shuts Keiichi down and makes him piss himself precisely for suggesting that Mion could do anything about it. So the story absolutely makes it clear that Mion was innocent and incapable of doing anything for Satoko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148660
>I dunno man, I can't imagine Mion can have her people dig up bodies or watch Shion/Kasai handle weapons like professionals and not know her family kills people
I mean, that's literally my point about her knowing about the torture dungeon and still being blindfully trustful that they didn't cause the yearly murders. Again, think about, WHY would she trust her granny if Mion thought her family were murderers? Of course she knows they're yakuza, that's their whole thing, she just thinks that, because her granny told her that they pretend to have caused the curse for the sake of keeping up appearances, her family is innocent.
>she flipped the fuck out on her after Satoshi's disappearance.
Well duh, she, like everyone else in the village, thought her family was behind the yearly murders because Oryou deliberately made it seem that way. It was only after Oryou explained things to her that she thought otherwise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148642
I thought that was guro from the thumbnail.
nice remix. what's it from?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46136742
which higu would say the n word? besides rika.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148704
I just don't see why Mion wouldn't be able to know her family is capable of murder while still believing Oryou's word that her family is not behind the yearly curse deaths.
I really do think Mion would trust her family after going to those lengths to get an answer out of them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148681
>Did she even know that option existed? I don't think it even gets brought up in Tatari at all
They do briefly talk about the child protection services in Tatari, but say it's hopeless.

>I don't think Mion could even do that considering it'd be about convincing the villagers to protect a Houjou
It'd be about stopping a criminal Houjou from moving back into town. She wouldn't need to bring up Satoko at all if she outright just stops Teppei from arriving (since she seems to know he's coming).

>but more importantly the story doesn't acknowledge this in the slightest so there's no claims against Mion's morality here even in-universe.

They don't bring up that specific possibility, but they specifically talk about how Mion is weak against a headwind and need other people holding her up when that happens (AKA, she folds under pressure, which is why she isn't starting any of that movement to help and is just in the background during Minagoroshi even though they wanted help and approval from her family).

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148722
>They do briefly talk about the child protection services in Tatari, but say it's hopeless.
They mention the part about how it's been tried to contact them before but they found that Satoko was a chronic liar as well as the fact that Teppei is her legal guardian now due to a lack of a parental figure, but I'm pretty sure what Keiichi's father specifically told him to do didn't get brought up. I mean, why else would they have him tell Keiichi that if the kids presumably already knew about it?
>It'd be about stopping a criminal Houjou from moving back into town.
I mean, that'd just reinforce the negativity towards Satoko more if Mion herself tells people that them dirty Houjous are up to no good. But the main point here is that the story itself doesn't bring this up at all, and we know as per Rena that the audience is meant to think that Mion couldn't do anything at all, and of course we know that Mion's heart is in the right place.

> but they specifically talk about how Mion is weak against a headwind and need other people holding her up when that happens
Refer to my previous post about this is not about Mion's weaknesses but rather her morality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148721
You don't think it's silly for someone to somehow both know that their family are murderers but at the same time blindfully claim they're innocent regarding these other murders that they're taking advantage of even though you have zero proof? On top of the fact that her granny told her that they're deliberately keeping up appearances, meaning the entire basis about her prior belief regarding her family being murderers was just completely thrown out the window? And that we know she claims this with utmost confidence despite knowing that they're still using the medieval torture chamber to this day? Like don't you think she'd be even the slightest bit doubtful about her granny's claims if she really thought as you say?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148709
https://soundcloud.com/hikouma/apocolypsis-iii-preview

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148761
>They mention the part about how it's been tried to contact them before but they found that Satoko was a chronic liar as well as the fact that Teppei is her legal guardian now due to a lack of a parental figure, but I'm pretty sure what Keiichi's father specifically told him to do didn't get brought up.

Yeah, that part didn't, but I don't see how it's relevant. I'm pointing out that her attitude leads to inaction and suffering. It's not presented as the "correct" one, although obviously Keiichi wasn't right in Tatari either.

>Mion couldn't do anything at all, and of course we know that Mion's heart is in the right place.

>Refer to my previous post about this is not about Mion's weaknesses but rather her morality.

I mean, her doing nothing or actively hiding things while everything falls apart causes problems in the first two arcs. She regrets her passiveness during Satoshi's case which is why in the present she prepares alibis and hides corpses, unlike for Satoshi, but she's still passive in other ways and making the same mistake as long as it's not that specific scenario.

It's true outside of Meakashi the narrative doesn't go out of its way to criticize her acting like that, but she's still acting mostly the same with little development, and that's even highlighted with the speech about a headwind taking her down in Minagoroshi. It is a consistent characteristic that's used as a negative trait by the narrative several times.

She just never actually gets personal focus facing that directly, with the final arc just completely ignoring that, while still trying to push her as a great leader. Rather than getting actual development, it just hopes people forget that was ever an issue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148799
She may have her doubts, but ultimately I think she could still believe Oryou, Mion would probably want to believe it too. The sonozakis aren't fabricating a complete lie that they're these powerful criminals. Oryou doesn't deny they're involved in the underworld, they just silently take credit to appear like they have a greater reach than they do.

The curse rumors are ultimately bad for the Sonozakis since we know they plan to open up the village in the future, Keiichi's family is one of the first steps to that. Scaring away all
outsiders, bringing police attention to them(nfu fu fu) isn't good for them. If Mion knows it's not in her family's interest to have this curse shit happening, that helps Oryou's case.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148840
>I'm pointing out that her attitude leads to inaction and suffering.
But again, the story itself says that Mion is innocent and couldn't do anything about it. What you're doing is talking about a possibility that the story itself doesn't care about at all and thus can't be used against Mion's morality here.
>I mean, her doing nothing or actively hiding things while everything falls apart causes problems in the first two arcs
I repeat, this is not about Mion's weaknesses as a character. This is about her heart being in the right place. It doesn't use her weakness as something to judge her negatively on, but rather as something to feel sorry and sympathetic for, because the story always shows that we're meant to agree with what she thinks (which she can't always accomplish obviously) should happen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148827
Ciconia remixes exist?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148827
Is that a different vocalist at the beginning? It's different from the singer in II.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148877
>She may have her doubts,
That's the point, she doesn't. Despite the ridiculousness of the situation, there's no way in hell someone who thinks their family are murderous yakuzas wouldn't have a single doubt when someone says they didn't cause the yearly murders that their family are taking advantage of since it helps them keep up appearances.
>The sonozakis aren't fabricating a complete lie that they're these powerful criminals. Oryou doesn't deny they're involved in the underworld, they just silently take credit to appear like they have a greater reach than they do.
I know, I said this already. Mion just doesn't know about the murder part because the only murders that she knows about are the ones that her granny told her weren't caused by the family. The sheer fact that she thought her family were causing the curse murders up until 1982 shows that her family had kept her in the dark. It shows that she only had suspicions as much as the other villagers did.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148882
>It doesn't use her weakness as something to judge her negatively on
Like I said, her weakness is portrayed negatively in Meakashi, especially when she does nothing for Satoshi and that leads to Shion needing to reveal herself, and then the family punishment.

In later arcs, the narrative goes out of its way to point out it still exists in spite of her arranging alibis in the present in an attempt to avoid that mistake, but, yes, it's not called out as a flaw again, which is why I'm saying it introduces this flawed aspect of the character, confirms it still exists, and then just shoves it under the rug by the time we get to the final arc without ever resolving it, unlike with any of the other main cast members.

Also, like I said before, Mion keeping secrets in Oni and Wata is portrayed as a flaw too, which is why in later arcs she's more open about the curse killings (although still keeping other secrets anyway...).

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148910
>That's the point, she doesn't.
There's no way to know that. ultimately R07 avoided going too in-depth on what Mion felt about her criminal side of the family, it always focused on Hinamizawa's dark past. I guess because the Sonozakis being yakuza is a recent development compared to the entire village history.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148906
I think it's just sped up slightly. Still, it does sound much clearer than the original. It might even be intelligible if I could speak French or whatever language that's supposed to be.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148910
She knows about Rina's death in Tatari/Mina, so she certainly knows her family kills.

>their family are taking advantage of

She knows the murders are actually getting in the way of her grandmother's plans to revitalize the village though, which is why she tries to hide the curse from Keiichi for example. She doesn't believing spreading knowledge of them is actually in the Sonozaki's interest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148930
The original song is a man doing a high pitch voice. This just sounds like a woman.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148942
>>46148930
I seperated the instrumental and vocals into different tracks and used AI to create a new choir for the intro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148917
>especially when she does nothing for Satoshi and that leads to Shion needing to reveal herself
The only part about her "not doing something for Satoshi" was Shion's imaginary scenario where Satoshi was executed by the Sonozakis. Shion revealed herself because Satoshi was about to spill the beans towards the cops and had to protect him. I don't recall the story ever criticizing Mion that didn't end up being a mistake by the narrating character.

>Mion keeping secrets in Oni and Wata is portrayed as a flaw too,
By who? Keiichi? The guy who's almost always making mistakes in the first arcs? Tsumihoroboshi points out that keeping uncomfortable secrets isn't a bad thing and you shouldn't feel bad about it if nobody's getting hurt by not knowing about them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148932
>She knows about Rina's death in Tatari/Mina, so she certainly knows her family kills.
Does she actually say her family killed them? I'm pretty sure the only reason we know it was the Sonozakis is because of a TIPS.
>She knows the murders are actually getting in the way of her grandmother's plans to revitalize the village though,
One advantage does not omit a different advantage. Of course she'd rather not have any of this bad press exist at all, but nonetheless Oryou deliberately made it that way for her own benefit. It's like pointing out how her making the whole village hate the Houjous wasn't exactly beneficial, especially after all these years and towards innocent kids, she still keeps it up nonetheless. And Mion doesn't know about the fact that Granny doesn't actually hate them as per Mina, she's completely surprised when Rena the mind reader points it out to her.

[Anonymous No.]

Κύριε Ελέησον

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149009
what is this picture trying to convery

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148923
>There's no way to know that
She claimed she was so convinced that her granny had killed Satoshi that she even planned to strangle her to death, but her words alone made her beliefs completely disappear, and we have Meakashi where she's confidently saying her family is innocent, she just doesn't know what happened to Satoshi. So there are no visible doubts as far as we can see, we're only taking what the story showed us.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149017
Holy headpat salvation

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149023
theres no saving any o us

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149000
sounds more like Oryou is making the best of a bad situation by allowing people to assume the Sonozakis are pulling the strings. She tried to learn about the true culprit but couldn't find shit.
You could argue that if they smacked down these rumors, it would make people panic even more that some unknown entity/group is carrying it out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148963
>The only part about her "not doing something for Satoshi" was Shion's imaginary scenario where Satoshi was executed by the Sonozakis. Shion revealed herself because Satoshi was about to spill the beans towards the cops and had to protect him. I don't recall the story ever criticizing Mion that didn't end up being a mistake by the narrating character.

Shion criticizes Mion for not creating an alibi for Satoshi even though she had an idea of his crime from the start. Mion reveals she didn't even think about that and then in the present you get her making alibis and hiding corpses to avoid that situation again. It's pretty clear in this point the narrative was highlighting she made a mistake and was trying to make up for it. It's just only in this one specific scenario that she then becomes more proactive, while her overall character flaws that led to it aren't addressed in the original VN (Miotsukushi does use all this to give her a character arc, actively portraying her passiveness as a sin, but then it's not an entire arc just for her, not written by R07 who set up all that but ignored it).

>Does she actually say her family killed them? I'm pretty sure the only reason we know it was the Sonozakis is because of a TIPS.

I mean, she knows she was executed after attempting to steal from the Sonozaki, which is why Teppei is moving from Okinomiya and wants to lie low, due to being associated with her. We don't get her point of view or what she's specifically told, but it'd be crazy if she knew all that and thought Rina's death was unrelated.

>>46149017
The tsumihoroboshi scene when Keiichi breaks down after remembering Onikakushi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149026
You will be saved if you wish for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149030
Why would she do that if her plans are to open the village? The fact that the victims were "offending" Oyashiro-sama was public knowledge, Oryou taking advantage of this to insinuate her family did it was just adding unnecessary icing on the cake. We know the elders other than Kimiyoshi think supernatural shit is afoot and the kids don't trust Oryou at all so they don't hate Satoko. I don't think it's brought up that her NOT doing what she did would have other consequences.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148951
can you share your separated vocal track?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149061
Because Oryou can't do shit about the curse killings, she tried to find out more but they're going to happen and hurt her plans of opening the village anyway. The most she could do was let people make rumors and just not do anything about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149077
https://files.catbox.moe/1qzdkv.mp3

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149096
How did you get it so clean?

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148307
>voice of reason
>Every other character has lapses of judgment and questionable choices that we as an audience are meant to find disagreeable
Every time I think back on everything Mion and Rena did to K1 during Onikakushi, I find their behavior if not retarded then incredibly stupid.
Every time I think back to the outcome of the first half of Watanagashi, when the problems are resolved in a forget-it-and-act-like-nothing-happened manner, because talking about emotions in certain circumstances is hard, please understand, I find it again to be very flawed. If she was following the voice of reason, this is definitely not the optimal solution.
And if she does take on the role of leader in the finale, the voice of reason should tell her that putting a group of unarmed children up against an armed special forces unit is not exactly doubly reasonable. The fact that it worked and no one was killed is another matter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149032
Seems kind of a stretch, Mion didn't even think about that possibility, it's not like she deliberately screwed over Satoshi, so that's not the story criticizing her morality here, that's just her needing someone else to think for her.
>We don't get her point of view or what she's specifically told, but it'd be crazy if she knew all that and thought Rina's death was unrelated.
I don't think applying common sense to Ms "my family keeps a torture dungeon but no they totally didn't kill those people cause granny didn't tell me they did" works here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149084
But insinuating she did it would only hurt said plans? She said her goal was to find out who was behind the murders, making everyone simply assume you did it instead of, say, helping with the investigation seems counterproductive. Doesn't help that the village has animosity towards the police who are trying to investigate said murders and because of Oryou's actions now think the family is a suspect.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149165
The police would always have animosity and suspect the Sonozaki because they're an active yakuza group that does kill people even during the series itself. They just aren't responsible for this specific series of deaths that go directly against Oryo's secret goals for the village.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149182
That and the events of the dam war probably didn't help relations between the village and police.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148681
>but more importantly the story doesn't acknowledge this in the slightest so there's no claims
I think anyone can make judgments about character regardless of whether their actions are acknowledged by story or narrative. To think otherwise is pretty absurd.
>In fact, there's a whole scene where Rena shuts Keiichi down and makes him piss himself precisely for suggesting that Mion could do anything about it
So when Rena, who sometimes doesn't even know Mion has a twin, says something about Mion, it must always be the absolute unquestionable truth. I see. It's certainly not a symptom of the author trying to justify bad writing through the mouth of one of the characters.
>I don't think Mion could even do that
Does anyone really think that if there was a situation where Teppei raised his voice just a little bit towards Mion, his status wouldn't change to missing in a matter of days? If they don't have the slightest problem taking care of Rina, it shouldn't be the least bit difficult to figure out how to take care of Teppei without getting him killed, if we're so attached to a moral solution.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149182
And they probably wouldn't have as much animosity if Oryou didn't pretend they were right and actually helped them out with the investigation, considering she said she wants to find out the culprit herself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149536
I mean, that would avoid Oishi's specific grudge, but they're still a criminal group that even execute people (Rina at least, maybe her collaborators too) during the series itself. It's not like the Sonozaki claiming they actually want to help the investigations would erase everything else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149564
Considering Ooishi is perfectly happy working with Oryou's side in Mina even though he knows the family killed Rina, I don't think that matters. Ooishi's main motivation for antagonizing the Sonozakis is that they think they killed his oyaji, that animosity would certainly lessen if they helped each other, which is what happened in the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149603
You mean Matsuribayashi, no? Oishi's men are surrounding Teppei expecting the Sonozaki to strike him for the curse up until near the ending of the part of the arc with him.

And in Matsuribayashi he outright gets confirmation of the true culprit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149677
I don't see how that's an issue. We know for a fact Ooishi was helping out the club to rescue Satoko, Rena used her mind reading powers to deduce that he was on their side. Bonus for Ooishi continuing to help Mion after Teppei's arrest by lending her sandlot dweeb club 2 of his own men as bodyguards and he himself working patrol duty to find them terrorists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149321
>I think anyone can make judgments about character regardless of whether their actions are acknowledged by story or narrative
We're talking about the story's perception here though. You could extrapolate to think Mion is secretly the most evil character and it wouldn't matter here.
>says something about Mion, it must always be the absolute unquestionable truth.
That's how the story presented it, yes, even the character who was accusing Mion agreed and apologized. Whether or not you think it's a plothole is a separate matter.
>Does anyone really think that if there was a situation where Teppei raised his voice just a little bit towards Mion, his status wouldn't change to missing in a matter of days?
We know Mion doesn't have this kind of omnipresent protection, she didn't even have a yakuza backup for the battles against the Yamainu which is when you'd think she'd have them the most. She can't even bring Satoko to her home to save her from Teppei and you think Oryou's gonna lend her yakuza for it? We also know she can't summon her army of Hinamizawa zombies like she did for Keiichi because that only worked due to the village's philosophy of helping each other out, but Satoko doesn't have that boon due to being a Houjou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46148029
>>46148013
>>46147992
Says the shitokonigger rat lying through his teeth fucker

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149796
>We're talking about the story's perception here though. You could extrapolate to think Mion is secretly the most evil character and it wouldn't matter here.
You keep stubbornly talking about perception of the story, which is at least a shift from how this thread started and you've been told several times that it's not that important. Multiple people have told you that they perceive Mion as cowardly, idle, or passive unfortunately enough just so the scenario itself can happen at all. Examples have been mentioned across many chapters, but so long as you want to perceive her as morally flawless, so be it. It's nice to know how to behave morally right and to want to behave morally right, but if you don't because you have certain weaknesses, it doesn't matter. You're just a flawed person like everyone else.
>even the character who was accusing Mion agreed and apologized
How many other people agree in-universe is totally irrelevant to my argument.
>you think Oryou's gonna lend her yakuza for it?
There's no need for some omnipotent protection or the entire Yakuza. A little reminder that K1 or Rena are capable of taking care of Teppei on their own. Are you really telling me that with a little ingenuity, Shion, for example, wouldn't have convinced Kasai to take action?
>We also know she can't summon her army of Hinamizawa zombies like she did for Keiichi because that only worked due to the village's philosophy of helping each other out, but Satoko doesn't have that boon due to being a Houjou
That's exactly why she could summon her army of zombies. All it takes is for Teppei to get into a crossfire in the village with anyone who isn't Satoko, which for some reason, probably because several characters in the story agreed on it, the narrative presented it that way, and no one questioned it, is probably inconceivable to you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46150499
>You keep stubbornly talking about perception of the story, which is at least a shift from how this thread started and you've been told several times that it's not that important.
Nobody has said that, and furthermore that's completely missing the point of the argument which was to speak about Mion's morality, not her intelligence or weak will, so I assume you did not read my original post and incorrectly assumed this was about something else. I even explained myself further when someone brought up unrelated points here: >>46148307. Please read the posts properly.
>You're just a flawed person like everyone else.
Glad we agree, too bad this discussion isn't about that.
>How many other people agree in-universe is totally irrelevant to my argument.
>>There's no need for some omnipotent protection or the entire Yakuza
The reason I bring up the perception of the story is because it shows that Mion had no ill intent whatsoever, saying "why didn't she do this and that strategy" when the story shows she didn't even think about those is completely missing the point of this discussion. We know for a fact she's not exactly the smartest and needs others to come up with ideas for her at times. Whatever Sonozaki authority methods she could have used were brought up in the story and she said she couldn't utilize them due to Satoko being a Houjou, same with getting the help of the villagers. If you have issues with that, then that's on Ryukishi for not thinking of your strategies, not Mion. And of course Mion doesn't like murder, so bringing up Rena and Keiichi here is pretty moot.

>That's exactly why she could summon her army of zombies. All it takes is for Teppei to get into a crossfire in the village with anyone who isn't Satoko, which for some reason, probably because several characters in the story agreed on it, the narrative presented it that way, and no one questioned it, is probably inconceivable to you.
That's a nice lateral thinking strategy anon, too bad Mion didn't think about it, so we can't use it against her morality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149123
>Every time I think back on everything Mion and Rena did to K1 during Onikakushi, I find their behavior if not retarded then incredibly stupid.
Literally the only reason things went awry was because Keiichi went crazy, he hallucinated a lot of the events that we see and Keiichi himself admitted he was the one in the wrong when he remembered these events in Tsumi. Even the whole "keeping secrets to yourself is bad" that Keiichi was meant to believe in was shown to be wrong in Tsumi. We're talking friends so pure that Rena kept considering Keiichi a friend as he pummeled her to death. At no point did they have ill intent towards him.

> when the problems are resolved in a forget-it-and-act-like-nothing-happened manner, because talking about emotions in certain circumstances is hard, please understand, I find it again to be very flawed.
I mean, that's just Mion being a nervous wreck towards her crush, not sure what ill intent you're getting out of her from this.

> The fact that it worked and no one was killed is another matter.
Everyone was on board, she didn't force anyone to join. They were saving a little girl's life and defeating a gang of evil genocidal mercenaries, so it's pretty big stretch to chastise her morally for this. We're talking within the context and tone of the story regarding Mion being right, so if anything, it being unrealistic is what shouldn't be a point here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46149123
>I find their behavior if not retarded then incredibly stupid.
They had no clue he was schizoing out as hard as he was

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>46152433
Her weak will is a character flaw though. It's why you get Rika wondering even in Minagoroshi if Mion never going crazy wasn't just a matter of her being too much of a coward. It's often brought up as a negative trait and something that causes problems throughout the story (until Matsuribayashi just ignores it completely rather than resolving it).

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156177
>Her weak will is a character flaw though
Glad we agree, not sure why you're bringing it up in this argument that has nothing to do with her character flaws though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156236
>Every other character has lapses of judgment and questionable choices that we as an audience are meant to find disagreeable.

I mean,

>Every other character has lapses of judgment and questionable choices that we as an audience are meant to find disagreeable.

You clearly aren't supposed to side with thinking there's nothing that can be done when serious conflict happens, and everyone should hide things, and try to ignore it. Those are all parts of the narrative where Mion is clearly shown to be wrong, not just the viewer meant to look at it like "poor Mion".

The big thing is that, aside from lacking an arc of her own, her negative qualities are passive rather than active like the other characters. It's why you get Keiichi, Shion, Rena or Oishi making errors of judgement and aiming at the wrong target or doings things in the wrong way. Meanwhile, Mion's error is freezing and doing nothing because her flaw is being passive/pushed by others.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156137
Canontrice

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156329
> there's nothing that can be done when serious conflict happens, and everyone should hide things, and try to ignore it.
Huh? You mean her not having an idea of what to do about Satoko? She didn't say that they shouldn't do anything, she said she was at a loss of what to do and even broke down crying because of it. The moment an actual solution was brought to the table she was immediately on board.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156384
>The moment an actual solution was brought to the table she was immediately on board.
And yet she could do nothing even when the solution was brought up, which is why you end up with Keiichi facing her family rather than Mion herself.

Like I said, Minagoroshi itself brings up how a headwind takes her down and has Rika saying she likely only didn't go crazy like everyone else because she's too much of a coward for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156410
>And yet she could do nothing even when the solution was brought up,
You mean when they realized they had to get Oryou's support to convince the child welfare center and Mion was scared to go? That's an example of her weak will, which for the umpteenth time, is not what this discussion is about. Plus she went anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156493
She went to stand in the background. It was her family and yet she let a complete outsider handle things in spite of being supposed to be the "successor" and "leader" of her friends. Nothing would get done there by Mion as portrayed in Minagoroshi -even- when she knew what had to be done.

Like I said before, this problem also pops up in other places, like her attempting to hide the curses and preserving the Sonozaki's image of being in control just leading to paranoia and disaster in multiple arcs. Her being unable to stand up against Satoko's ostracism outside of the freaking classroom. And as I póinted out, these negative qualities are directly pointed out even in Minagoroshi, so it's not just "Shion is supposed to be wrong, so it doesn't count!" or anything like that. It's a flaw and called out as a flaw multiple times by the narrative.

The narrative just chooses to completely skip over giving her an actual arc and then Matsuribayashi just ignores all problems left around her character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156334
he is that

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156547
All you've been doing is repeating points about her weak will, even though I've constantly told you that that's not what the discussion is about. She wasn't against talking to Oryou, she wasn't against helping Satoko, the whole shebang about not wanting to talk about the village's past is not malicious in the slightest (bad things wouldn't come out of it if it wasn't for the local pathogen that she knows fuck all about) and Tsumihoroboshi points out that keeping secrets is not a bad thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156607
>All you've been doing is repeating points about her weak will, even though I've constantly told you that that's not what the discussion is about.
That's the entire point of my argument though. You're saying the VN doesn't treat it as a disagreeable flaw and more like just something where we're meant to look at her as "poor Mion", but the way that flaw is treated is clearly meant to be a negative quality, which is why get stuff like Rika's coward comment, not something that's meant to make people like Mion for.

>Tsumihoroboshi points out that keeping secrets is not a bad thing.
Keeping things about yourself to yourself isn't malicious. Mion in several arcs is trying to hide local history and events from her friends and that leads to problems, which is why in later arcs (some of) that aspect is dropped. Yet again though, Mion doesn't get arcs of her own, so unlike Keiichi or Shion we don't even get any introspection into her change of attitude on that one point.

Really, it feels like you're saying she's perfect because you don't want to count inaction as a flaw or mistake (even though the narrative blatantly treats it as such), only active flaws, misguided actions, combined with the lack of point of view she gets due to not having an arc of her own, like I said, the one change in attitude we get (her being more open about Hinamizawa's history in later arcs even while still keeping other secrets) is a change without any kind of introspection from her point of view, "it just happens".

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156681
>You're saying the VN doesn't treat it as a disagreeable flaw and more like just something where we're meant to look at her as "poor Mion", but the way that flaw is treated is clearly meant to be a negative quality
At no point are we meant to disagree with Mion morally. You're looking at things from a perspective of "this is a character flaw, period" which is not what this is about. Her being scared of her grandmother is not something the story treats as something to dislike her for, in fact it's presented as something that ALL villagers share and Keiichi is superhuman for daring to talk shit in her face.

>that leads to problems,
Unintentionally. Plus like I said, things only go bad because of the local disease (and Takano, she even caused Rena to go crazy by giving her schizo scrapbooks).

>Really, it feels like you're saying she's perfect because you don't want to count inaction as a flaw
I didn't say she was perfect nor that her inaction isn't a flaw.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156766
>At no point are we meant to disagree with Mion morally.
I really disagree. Like I said, the "coward" comment says it all. Just because her flaw goes in an opposite direction from the other characters, it doesn't mean it's not a flaw. It's not just a weakness, going back to your original post

>I said morally flawless, as in, she's almost always meant to be the voice of reason, she only gets into predicaments because other people wronged her, we're always supposed to feel sorry for her and she's a saint compared to every other character.

It's absolutely something where she is meant to be wrong and the narrative treats her a such. Readers -aren't- supposed to side with her when she's just sitting there and saying things can't be done. She's obviously wrong because the narrative itself shows things could be done.

>Her being scared of her grandmother is not something the story treats as something to dislike her for, in fact it's presented as something that ALL villagers share and Keiichi is superhuman for daring to talk shit in her face.

Rika calls her a coward in the festival that takes place shortly after that. It's absolutely something the narrative highlights as a negative quality even if not in that scene itself.

>Unintentionally.
I mean, that's the case for most characters though. It's just she's erring by being passive, while the others make mistakes by being active. It's still a mistake and part of what leads to the tragedies (like I said, which is why you get part of her attitude changed in later arcs, just no introspection because she doesn't have the privilege of an arc of her own).

>Plus like I said, things only go bad because of the local disease

You could say that for almost everything though. Keiichi killing Teppei in Tatari shouldn't have led to Satoko hallucinating him and torturing herself anyway if it weren't for the disease, and yet Keiichi's actions there are meant to be wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156851
>I really disagree. Like I said, the "coward" comment says it all.
>It's absolutely something where she is meant to be wrong and the narrative treats her a such
I said morally, nothing here is morally disagreeable. She said that they are helpless because she doesn't know what to do, at no point does she say "let's stop finding ways to help Satoko" or anything of the sort. And no character knew what to do except Keiichi's father.

>Rika calls her a coward in the festival that takes place shortly after that
You keep repeating this but it seems you clearly do not remember the context. Not only is Rika only offering a theory, but she says this in a GOOD way, because she's trying to think why Mion never fucking killed people. Why on earth would you think that's something negative here?
>I mean, that's the case for most characters though. It's just she's erring by being passive, while the others make mistakes by being active. It's still a mistake and part of what leads to the tragedies
Unintentional coincidences that lead to a bizarre outcome only possible because of HS. Why are you thinking we are to think Mion is morally wrong for something that isn't her intention in the slightest and is not even a direct cause (it's mostly Oryou bullshitting about the curse being her doing that's most of the source of the paranoia) is beyond me.
>You could say that for almost everything though
HS victims go L5 through a long series of unlucky events, and their own pre-existing flaws and backstory are also part of the road. Trying to blame Mion for this when it's not her intention at all and is something rather minor is grasping at straws.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46156952
>Not only is Rika only offering a theory, but she says this in a GOOD way, because she's trying to think why Mion never fucking killed people. Why on earth would you think that's something negative here?

It's outright turning what should be a good thing into an insult, all this during a happy moment, not even some kind of tense situation where Rika says something she is meant to regret.

>at no point does she say "let's stop finding ways to help Satoko" or anything of the sort.
She doesn't say they should stop, but she does say there is nothing they can do, which is basically the same thing.

>Unintentional coincidences that lead to a bizarre outcome only possible because of HS. Why are you thinking we are to think Mion is morally wrong for something that isn't her intention in the slightest and is not even a direct cause (it's mostly Oryou bullshitting about the curse being her doing that's most of the source of the paranoia) is beyond me.
I mean, like I pointed out, Mion's attitude in later arcs is partially changed. She still keeps secrets about the Sonozaki/Oryo stuff, but stop hiding the blatantly open curse killings. It's clear her attitude regarding that stuff is meant to be wrong which is why it's changed later on.

Like I said before, you're treating Mion's lack of an arc and point of view as approval from the narrative, which if baffling.

R07 set up flaws and sins for her, and just did nothing with it - maybe because it's similar to Rika's and Hanyuu's situation, in spite of being completely unrelated to them, I guess? And in their cases them giving up on the world and holding no hope for the future is outright called a sin by the narrative.

It's why Miotsukushi picking up all that and treating it as Mion's sin, something she needed to face like the other characters face their own flaws worked so well. R07 had all the set up for a character arc there but then just shoved it aside.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157039
>It's outright turning what should be a good thing into an insult,
I don't know what to tell you anon, you're clearly misremembering and manipulating the hell out of that moment. This is a scene where she's pointing out how every other character including herself is mentally weak enough to fall for the disease, so whether you like it or not, she's saying Mion is mentally the strongest character of the cast. You are grasping at straws extremely hard here to claim this is something even remotely negative, holy shit.
>but she does say there is nothing they can do, which is basically the same thing.
No it isn't, what? Not knowing the solution is not the same as being against a solution. Nobody at school knew a solution either, not even the teacher.
>I mean, like I pointed out, Mion's attitude in later arcs is partially changed. She still keeps secrets about the Sonozaki/Oryo stuff, but stop hiding the blatantly open curse killings. It's clear her attitude regarding that stuff is meant to be wrong which is why it's changed later on.
Regardless of your theory as to why things changed (there's no plot explanation like memory leaks given so it might be a plothole for all you know), the point here is that you're blaming for consequences that are not her intention whatsoever and are not even a direct cause of her actions either. There's nothing to consider morally wrong here, especially since Tsumi said keeping secrets isn't wrong and Mion keeping secrets isn't that relevant later on either, since the 2 arcs afterwards have nothing to do with Sonozaki paranoia shenanigans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157039
>>46157104
Also she says "we are helpless", right when everyone is at the end of their wits and have tried multiple things. We know her heart is in the right place because the moment Keiichi tells everyone the potential solution given to him by his father, she's right on board.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157104
>she's saying Mion is mentally the strongest character of the cast.
I mean, that should be the natural conclusion, and yet it brings the issue of her cowardice as a possible answer just to take a potshot at her, rather than just praising her as more put together than the others.

>No it isn't, what? Not knowing the solution is not the same as being against a solution.
>the point here is that you're blaming for consequences that are not her intention whatsoever and are not even a direct cause of her actions either.

Moping around rather than trying to believe and find a solution is a sin as shown with Rika and Hanyuu. Mion is basically in the same situation as them in spite of having more power, which is why you get the references to her being coward/weak.

>especially since Tsumi said keeping secrets isn't wrong

That's about "yourself" like I pointed out. Mion's secrets aren't just about herself.

Are you seriously arguing that narrative that goes out of its way to insult her out of nowhere is trying to push her as this morally superior figure to the other character who doesn't even need development? The same Mion whose actions and attitude couldn't achieve -anything- before Matsuribayashi where her flaws are just completely ignored for once is supposed be seen as a bright light compared to the other characters? It's just a baffling reading of the story to me. But, well, it's clear you won't change your mind at this point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157220
>and yet it brings the issue of her cowardice as a possible answer just to take a potshot at her, rather than just praising her as more put together than the others.
Dude, it's followed by Rika saying "oops that was out of place haha" so it's clearly meant to be a joking snide. I repeat, how the flying hell are you taking Rika pointing out such a huge praise as saying Mion is mentally the strongest character and twisting as to claim the narrative is actually insulting Mion? Especially since we know the nature of the disease doesn't give a fuck how cowardly you are, it'll still turn you into an unrecognizable lunatic no matter what? No, sorry, I don't buy it in the slightest.
>Moping around rather than trying to believe and find a solution is a sin as shown with Rika and Hanyuu.
No, Rika's problem was that she just tried the same shit over and over instead of asking her friends for help, and Hanyuu didn't even want Rika to win according to Ryukishi cause that would mean she would leave her. When Mion said "we are helpless" it was right after they had tried multiple things and Satoko showed up to school to display that her mental condition had gone full schizophrenia and seeing people that aren't there. Every other character also had zero idea what to do and we as an audience at that point also don't know the solution either, it's a moment of despair and helplessness and it's meant to be sympathetic, not disagreeable.
>That's about "yourself" like I pointed out. Mion's secrets aren't just about herself.
But the secrets are just Hinamizawa's dark past, who does that benefit exactly?

>Are you seriously arguing that narrative that goes out of its way to insult her out of nowhere
It doesn't, it praises her as the mentally strongest character. You're taking a joke as the narrative insulting her for some reason.
>The same Mion whose actions and attitude couldn't achieve -anything-
There you go again going about her weak will. God, it's really hard to drive the point through that this is about morality, but you keep bringing up unrelated flaws here and there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157293

>No, Rika's problem was that she just tried the same shit over and over instead of asking her friends for help
>and Hanyuu didn't even want Rika to win according to Ryukishi cause that would mean she would leave her.

That was his plan to address in Matsuribayashi, which he didn't for some reason. What he actually wrote in Minagoroshi framed Rika and Hanyuu being hopeless and doing nothing, not believing change could happen as a sin by itself, with their deaths in the end being blamed on Hanyuu not believing, even though she obviously didn't actually kill any of them. Mion is in the exact same situation as early Rika only with more power than Rika had, but without the narrative focus. Until the narrative just ignores her flaws and leaves all that set up just hanging.

>God, it's really hard to drive the point through that this is about morality
Her passiveness is her sin which led to tragedy, just like Rika, so it's tied to morality.

Like I said, R07 had all this set up but did nothing with it, which is why Mion's parts in Miotsukushi flow so well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157341
No, all throughout Minagoroshi Hanyuu keeps saying that Rika should give up because she claims that there's no point in trying and doesn't trust that they can win. And Rika herself didn't trust her friends and thus gave up early in the arc. This is very different from Mion who not once lost the trust in her friends, even when she herself can't come up with a solution, she will follow her friends. That's why she never fell to the disease, because paranoia and lost of trust are the only thing HS cares about (unless you get injected haha).
>Her passiveness is her sin which led to tragedy, just like Rika, so it's tied to morality.
See above.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157372
>And Rika herself didn't trust her friends and thus gave up early in the arc.
She still ends up following them. Like I said, Mion just lacks introspection due not having her own arc, but when you have her directionless and saying there's nothing to be done in Tatari, she clearly isn't trusting her friends will come up with something otherwise she wouldn't be acting like that in the first place. She's acting just like Rika.

[Anonymous No.]

(continuing)
It's baffling to me that you think Mion is meant to be morally perfect and always taking the right actions, in spite of the narrative not answering her actions in a positive way at all. Considering the way Higurashi is written, if her actions aren't bringing good fruits, even if for indirect reasons (like Keiichi killing Teppei in Tatari) these actions are clearly meant to be morally wrong, otherwise they'd have positive fruits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157410
>She still ends up following them.
Yes? The story portrays this as a good thing and what you're meant to do, but the point is that before that Rika didn't trust them. Hell, when she gets "convinced" she's like "oh well whatever let's see what you dipshits can do THIS time.", not exactly a paragon of trust. She only gets really convinced later on when Keiichi starts displaying his magic.
>she clearly isn't trusting her friends will come up with something
See >>46157293. Mion was as helpless as everyone else and they had tried everything, it's a moment where we're meant to sympathize with her since we as an audience don't know the solution. To add to that, even though she also didn't know what they could do in Mina, she IMMEDIATELY is enthusiastically on board when Keiichi comes up with the first step towards the true solution, proving that she trusts her friends unlike Rika who doesn't trust Keiichi at all at first. Don't mingle shared helplessness with lack of trust.
>>46157438
Except her "bad fruits" are caused by things beyond her control or intention and are instead done by someone else. Why are you bringing morality here? That's like saying Jesus is not meant to be a symbol of morality because his actions led to him being tortured and killed and his followers persecuted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157461
>To add to that, even though she also didn't know what they could do in Mina, she IMMEDIATELY is enthusiastically on board when Keiichi comes up with the first step towards the true solution, proving that she trusts her friends unlike Rika who doesn't trust Keiichi at all at first.

She is also down when things don't work out, which is why you get Keiichi's speech about her needing help against a headwind in Minagoroshi. It's just we don't get her talking or an internal monologue. But if she's down, rather than trying to cheer up her other friends even if she can't do anything else, clearly her faith in them has cracks.

>Except her "bad fruits" are caused by things beyond her control or intention and are instead done by someone else. Why are you bringing morality here?

Because it's clearly how the narrative in Higurashi works. Like I said, look at Tatari. All the negative consequences of killing Teppei come from factors completely outside of Keiichi's control (Satoko's hallucinations, Rena and Mion fearing telling him the truth outside of a completely isolated location like the junkyard), but it's meant to show Keiichi's choice was wrong. That's how Higurashi operates as a story.

Mion doesn't get that kind of focus because she doesn't have her own arc, but her actions clearly aren't framed in a overwhelming positive way during most of the story, which is why many don't bear good fruits. Until the narrative clearly has no time/interest in dealing with so her flaws are then just completely ignored without getting a proper arc dealing with them, leading to the good ending.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157511
>She is also down when things don't work out
Again, you're mixing up a moment of universal helplessness with lack of trust, and I'm showing how the fact that she's immediately on board with Keiichi's strategy despite also not knowing what to do proves that you can't mix the two. You're just throwing dishonest theories here and more importantly, you keep ignoring how we as an audience are meant to feel sympathy for her understandable despair.
> All the negative consequences of killing Teppei come from factors completely outside of Keiichi's control (Satoko's hallucinations, Rena and Mion fearing telling him the truth outside of a completely isolated location like the junkyard), but it's meant to show Keiichi's choice was wrong.
Except we're talking about a character being morally sympathetic, and Higurashi explicitly paints murder as the wrong moral thing to do in Kai. Any action can lead to consequences but it doesn't mean they're all equally morally reprehensible as per the story's perspective.

> but her actions clearly aren't framed in a overwhelming positive way during most of the story
You only say this because bad things constantly happen to her, this is not the same as claiming this is proof that she's not presented as being morally agreeable.

[Anonymous No.]

you two are passionate damn

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157549
>You're just throwing dishonest theories here and more importantly, you keep ignoring how we as an audience are meant to feel sympathy for her understandable despair.

I genuinely believe in everything I'm saying here about how her flaws are framed by the story, it's really not just for the sake of an argument. It's why Miotsukushi focusing on that as her sin feels so natural compared to some other parts of that story itself. All the set up was already there, just nothing done with it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157581
My dude, I'm glad you love Miotsukushi, but why would you claim Mion's bad luck has anything to do with us as an audience thinking she must not be morally sympathetic, or treat a clearly sympathetic moment as proof of her moral wrongness? The most morally perfect saint ever could still have the worst possible fate known to man to happen to them, that's something that would be considered unjust, not proof that they were actually morally in the wrong somehow. Miotsukushi addresses her personality flaws like her weak will, but not her morality, two things I've separated since the beginning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157625
>but why would you claim Mion's bad luck has anything to do with us as an audience thinking she must not be morally sympathetic, or treat a clearly sympathetic moment as proof of her moral wrongness? The most morally perfect saint ever could still have the worst possible fate known to man to happen to them, that's something that would be considered unjust, not proof that they were actually morally in the wrong somehow.
This is a story where bad actions clearly can't bring about a good ending. You're the one that seems to think Mion is an exception and unlike the rest of the cast she's meant to be making the morally correct choices even when bringing about unfortunate consequences.

Also, Miotsukushi explicitly frames her flaws as a sin, although obviously this doesn't automatically address the original story due to the different writers and all, but I think its handling of her developing working so well is proof that this framework I'm arguing for fits with the original story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>46157662
>This is a story where bad actions clearly can't bring about a good ending. You're the one that seems to think Mion is an exception and unlike the rest of the cast she's meant to be making the morally correct choices even when bringing about unfortunate consequences.
I've already addressed this point dude, what part of "bad luck" and the saint example did you miss? You're saying that the horrible things that end up happening to her aren't unjust? Again, not only are her "consequences" extremely indirect since things only go bad due to a long series of coincidences and the local disease turning off your common sense and inhibitions, but at no point does the story paint as her morally reprehensible. Her weaknesses are a "sin" in the sense that she could have avoided x and y with enough spine, but that's not the same as saying her heart was ever in the wrong place morality-wise, as her failures are only meant to be sympathetic towards her unjust fates, and that's the only thing this discussion was about.