/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

So, regardless of detailed evidence debates, what would be your ideal outcome to explain the clusterfuck of EP6 from the theories that have arisen?

I favor "Erika doesn't exist", myself. Feels poetic and right, somehow.

inb4teatrice

[Anonymous No.]

Rosa culprit, theory of the game all games

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A witch did it. Chiru is meant to be such ridiculous shit that you find a witch actually plausible.

[Anonymous No.]

I also like the idea of Erika somehow being the 'mystery haze' over the truth, like Beatrice was the 'fantasy haze' in the first 4 Episodes.

In some way.

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At this point it'll be unsatisfying for me no matter what, so I'll just go with Shkanon.

Not Shkanontrice, but Shannon is Kanon. Or for a TWEEST, Kanon is Shannon, to fuck with George. I'm okay with that situation, as long as I can hope for Jessica wanting to bone her cousin Battler.

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Small bombs did it all along.

Was that ever countered?

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[Anonymous No.]

I'm thinking Erika doesn't exist, with a nice side dose of George being the culprit.

The lack of a reliable narrator in 5 and 6, the knowledge that there is a trap in episode 5 that would have been in episode 3, and other things makes me favor Erika doesn't exist over Shkannon. Shkannon just seems to be far too messy and overly complicated for it to work. Shkannontrice even more so. I have my doubts about "Beatrice" being a female as well.

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How can Erika not exist? In red, she says she killed the victims.

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Off Topic here but whats the name of the BGM in ep 5 during the Court of Illusions?

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>>4418335
Which one specifically? It's probably depicted in the Music Box somewhere

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>>4418335
Change Butter to Battler

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>>4418345
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmBDK9tbuRA&feature=related

starts around 0:04, lolyoutubequality

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I would love it if R07 said that he ran out of ideas and told his fans: 'at least i made some good character, right'?

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>>4418296
> Shkannon just seems to be far too messy and overly complicated for it to work.
Problem is, there's been hints towards it from the very beginning, and Episode 6 is all about that.

The trap was something else, something other than Erika's presence, because R07 said that those who have already reached the truth, or at least come close to it, will have their suspicions confirmed, while those who haven't will only be confused. Unless the truth is something really really really really really weird, there's nothing that Erika not existing would confirm, suspicion-wise.
....Shit, got carried away there.

Anyway, I don't particularly have any ideal outcome, but I wouldn't mind plain Kanontrice, with Kanon being a reverse trap.

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>>4418376
if you're still here, it's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZxOyWlFx2g

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Witch Hunt translates that one as "Solitary Deep Sea Fish," -45 is the artist as stated, Japanese title as already stated, 3:40 length.

Seems to be when they finally "prove" Natsuhi's guilt.

[Anonymous No.]

it's also hinted at George and Shannon being culprits since the beginning. They have absolutely no alibi in those proposal scenes. And we don't have Battler narrating that so how can we trust it?

[Anonymous No.]

If your talking about Kanon's closed room. Possible answers are.

Kanon's corpse is hidden in the closet.

Kanon=Kinzo

or

Shkanon (but that's too obvious)


I also like the idea that Erika doesn't exist, but I think the reason people want to think that is because she represents the fans and the fans don't want to admit that they're worse trolls than Ryukishi is.

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For some reason I have a bunch of songs missing from my playlist even though I put the entire ep5 BGM into it. Weird.

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>>4418469
There's also the fact that Shkanon not being the case and instead Erika not existing would completely invalidate almost everything that occurred in Episode 6 with regards to the things we're told about Shannon and Kanon, unless something really really weird is going on, like Shannon and Kanon somehow being connected telepathically, which is even less likely than Shkanon.

[Anonymous No.]

Yes, Erika doesn't exist. And her being a character which change in every episode. For exemple in ep6 she could be the same person as the culprit of ep2.

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For the Cirno dump, I wanted to share this -- http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1JUCHOP7

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>>4418548
their goddamn trial was in white. And it could mean anything else than Shkannon.
And until the logic error, I don't remind anything in favor of Shkannon.

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>>4418573
> And until the logic error, I don't remind anything in favor of Shkannon.
The. Entire. Fucking. Goddamn. Duel. The fact that only one of the two of them can achieve love. The fact that they share the same room and sleep in the same bed. The fact that if one of them leaves the island, the other would have to leave as well.

I think that's the major stuff, but there's probably a lot more that I didn't mention.

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>>4418588
This, unless they have the strangest goddamn relationship ever, there is something deeper to it.

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>>4418573
Are you one of those who wouldn't accept Battler and Beatrice being in love unless it's stated in red, either?

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Can both Shkanon and Erika not existing be true at the same time? I'm okay with Shkanon as long as Shkanon isn't the culprit.

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>>4418606
this is different

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>>4418609
...Actually, it potentially could. After all, it's been said in red that no one can disguise as Kanon, but it's never been said that no one could disguise themselves as Shannon.

Holy shit, the Pony Theory may have just made a comeback.

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I don't think Erika's existence means anything, nor does the fact that she killed 5 "innocent" people mean that she is in league with the culprit.

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>>4418588

>>The fact that only one of the two of them can achieve love.

The trial is supposed to be a test. If we assume that Zepar and Furfur will only allow one of them to be happy in love, and only the one who have the more guts (and yes, if Shkannon is false, this test is hard as hell. It is exactly the same as the test in ep4), no problems. Kanon's last memory reminded me that, by the way.

>> The fact that they share the same room and sleep in the same bed.

Again, where is the problem?
They are servants. They even call themselves furniture. I wouldn't be surprised at all.

>> The fact that if one of them leaves the island, the other would have to leave as well.

KANON says that he will leave the island if he win, but also that he was going to do this ANYWAY.
But I don't remind Shannon having said the same thing.


Anyway. The funniest thing with ep6 is that, in the 5 previous eps, it was " DON'T BELIEVE ANYHTING IN WHITE".
Now, it is pretty much "fuck the red, the white is telling EXACTLY the truth" even if Ryukishi said that he will not give clear answers.

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>>4418640
FUCK YEAH

The pony theory was...I don't know, but the spirit of that theory was awesome.

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Bern was the culprit

LOLITROLLU

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>>4418640
You know I would never leave your side, Anonymous.

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>>4418689
> The funniest thing with ep6 is that, in the 5 previous eps, it was " DON'T BELIEVE ANYHTING IN WHITE".
The only people who took that approach were those who didn't understand Umineko at the time. Of course the magic scenes don't _actually_ happen, but, well... just because something said in white isn't guaranteed to be the truth doesn't mean it isn't true.

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>>4418707
Requesting Kinzo!pony, please.

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>>4418689
>DON'T BELIEVE ANYHTING IN WHITE
Only idiots and Erika think that.

You should look at the white text with a cautious eye, but the brunt of the eye opening hints are all white.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4418588

Shannon and Kanon could be fraternal (non identical) twins. They come from the same orphanage so it makes sense. It's not uncommon for siblings to sleep in the same bed for example it could be a bed made for two. The reason only one of them can find love is because Kanon is actually a girl. Evidence: Episode 1 he has no upper body strength. Episode 2: rejects Jessica, and wears that really big coat in tsurepettan scene.

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>>4418606
IDC about the red text. The only red texts I absolutely believe are the one from beato's red in ep 1-4 and possibly battler's.

But I'm totally against saying " the white text in this ep = GOOD, let's take it litteraly. the white text in this ep = TRASH". Far too much convenient.

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>>4418718
If that means we get a Battler x reverse trap Kanon end, then I'm all for it.

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>>4418707
Too bad Battler left the side of whoever Beatrice is.

Cue Lolitrice advice.

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>>4418729

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>>4418736
The end of Umineko: Turns out Battler had made promises to EVERYBODY on the island. They're all Beatrice.

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>>4418717
Exactly what I think, and that's why I assume that Shkannon is a possibility, but doesn't have to be necessarily the truth. The Shkannon (which is never stated directly in the game, but looks obvious) could be a hint which have to be interpreted instead of being an answer.

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>>4418761
Leave Iku out of this, KoG

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>>4418744
16/17 wolves - 1 sheep.

Good luck battler.

http://images.elfwood.com/fanq/l/a/las/20030517_supersheep.jpg

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>>4418640
hereisyourponytheory.jpg

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>>4418744
"Oh you thought I was inspired by And Then There Were None? Psssssh, losers. I was inspired by Murder On The Orient Express."

Also: Spoilers for books lol.

[Anonymous No.]

I don't mind Shkannon but Shkannontrice isn't any good.

Let's hope for either Teatrice confirmation, pony theory comeback in full swing, or an entirely new and non shitty theory.

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>>4418772
15/16 wolves and 2 sheep, actually. Gohda would be the only one Battler wouldn't have made a promise to, because he hadn't started working until later.

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>>4418791
That's what you think.

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>>4418808

autistic spotted

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>>4418313
1.Change "Erika" To a title or a nickname
2/ profit

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>>4418811
No, see, Gohda just wants to cook. He couldn't care less about murdering people or anything like that; he just wants to be able to cook delicious meals for appreciative guests.

Which is why I ship GohdaxBeelzebub.

[Anonymous No.]

What's a shipper?

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>>4418839
Gohda HAVE TO BE the illegitimatechild of Ronove and Beelzebub. theses cookies. Theses goddamn cookies.

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>>4418847
"And if they refuse to eat my cooking... well then... I'll just have to prepare a SPECIAL surprise for them."

Too bad Gohda accidentally killed everybody in ep2 and as a result was never allowed to do anything cool again.

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>>4418864
Though I don't see why anyone would refuse to eat Gohda's cooking under normal circumstances. The stuff he makes sounds pretty delicious.

[Anonymous No.]

Now that I think about it, Pony Theory is very unlikely at this point but still possible.

After all, I feel there has to be some significance to Beatrice being stated to be 19 years old when that doesn't match the description of any other character we know in the series. In b4 LOL THEIR AGES ARE OBVIOUSLY FAKED BECAUSE FAKING BIRTH CERTIFICATES IS EASY

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>>4418874
To begin with, it always annoyed the shit out of me that the grand promise that triggers all this shit was a goofy preteen saying he'd meet a girl on a white horse.

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>>4418864
by imagining Gohda changing his clothes in front of battler in the end of turn of the golden witch, I now understand why Battler have been so horrified that he just give up.

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>>4418887
Considering whoever Beatrice is has obviously suffered a lot, it's probably a bit more than a simple preteen crush.

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>>4418887
You guys keep forgetting that the promise itself was not a big part of it all. It was a small part. Just something that created a bit of wiggle room.

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>>4418887
Wasn't a girl. "Beatrice" is killing so that no one discovers his gay lust for Battler. Their love is not accepted in the Reaganomics era of the 1980s and all those who might find out must be silenced.

Battler dies in ep4 of AIDS.

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>>4418874

Why is pony theory unlikely?

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>>4418874
Isn't 19 y o battler's age?
Battler is Beatrice and is sin is to have killed his second personnality. And now, she come back as a ghost. And she is pissed.

*umineko solved*

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>>4418874

Shkannon is true and Erika doesn't exist. Enjoy your Mariatrice.

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>>4418917

Battler is 18 not 19

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>>4418922
Well, so Battler's second personnality is born one year before him. Not a big deal, really.

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>>4418917
Battler and Jessica are 18. Kanon and Shannon are 16. George is 23.

>>4418910
Because Beatrice is a personality or something someone created to be Battler's ideal woman. Why bother when he just described who are you to the tee? It's the same problem as with Jessitrice, though at least with Lolitrice you can make the excuse that Beatrice used to be timid and shy when she was a girl.

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>>4418934
Makes about as much sense as personalities switching and dying at the whim of the Overmind, and Erika being Bruce Willis.

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>>4418937
The Pony Theory doesn't require Lolitrice to have looked like what we're shown in the flashback in the anime/manga. She could very well have been a flat-chested loli with long black hair.

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>>4418944
> Erika being Bruce Willis.
Huh?

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>>4418934

it makes more sense if it was in Kinzo's will that the person to become master of the island would inherit everything at the age of 19, which is one year later rather than creating more personalities.

Or if Kinzo was 19 when he became the head in the old days it could refer to the previous master of the island and not the current one.

[Anonymous No.]

TEATRICE ES LA LEY.

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>>4418957
Nah, Zepar and Furfur made it seem like they were talking about the current master of the island.

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>>4418949
But then why would Kinzo keep her around if she looked nothing like his former lover?

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>>4418968
Kinzo didn't force Lolitrice to be Beatrice to begin with, according to the flashback. Lolitrice decided to become a witch all on her own based on Kumasawa's stories.

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>>4418957
Beatrice's portrait was shown during the "19 years old" line.

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>>4418980
Which one? Dress Beatrice or suit Beatrice?

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>>4418983
Don't remember, someone else'll have to check.

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>>4418977
Hmm, that could fit, then. It could also explain how the person who created the Beatrice personality would actually know what Beatrice was supposed to look like, considering no one supposedly knew until Kinzo put up the portrait two years ago.

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>>4418989
>>4418983
Suit.

[Anonymous No.]

Why do people keep claiming that Shannon and Kanon sleep in the same bed? The VN doesn't say that anywhere.

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>>4418937
You know, if Kanon was Beatrice it'd explain why Jessica is Kanon's sun. As that saying could also be interpreted as one's wishes to be more LIKE the target of the feelings.

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>>4419036

I'm guessing that if the claim is false it's to give the theory more credibility. Or their mixing it up with the Natsuhi and Kinzo thing.

Is it also false that they leave the island together too? I think that would be awkward in the George and Shannon date sequences. Minus the Shkanon theory

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>>4419104
> Is it also false that they leave the island together too?
That's not what people are claiming. The claim is that, if one of them permanently leaves the island, then the other one would have to as well.

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>>4419128
The weird thing about that, though, is that if Shannon leaves the island, Kanon also has to leave - but he can't go with Shannon either.

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>>4419128
Well if they're siblings or really close friends than that's easy to solve. I think Kanon is like a rabbit. If Shannon ever left he'd die of loneliness. So if she leaves the island permanently he leaves too.

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>>4419160
But he can't go with her either way. Shannon said if she leaves, she's going to forget about him forever. But for some reason, he still has to leave the island.

[Anonymous No.]

Can someone post the long copypasta of beatrice being created?

I think that can help to figure out whether sh(k)annon or jessica is the one lusting after battlers cock.

it mentions jessica's looks but depending on how CRAZY this person is it could be either person imo.

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>>4419160
> If Shannon ever left he'd die of loneliness.
Despite what Kinzo may say, rabbits dying of loneliness is a myth. Hii-chan agreed, don't bother her about it.

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>>4418952
Was going for an obscure The Sixth Sense reference.

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>>4419173
It's not Jessica, despite what delusional Jessitricefags would have you believe. Whoever created Beatrice made her to be Battler's ideal woman, which the original apparently could not be. Jessica has no reason to create a new personality to love him when Battler literally just described her as his type.

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>>4419173
Someone suggested that Battler's tone in that flashback made it seem more like he was talking to a guy. Which is odd. There aren't any guys around who would ask him that sorta thing on the island 6 years ago...

...OR ARE THERE?

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>>4419173
Kanon is the one lusting after Battler's cock.

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>>4419167
Than if he's not going with her than we can say that the island holds a lot of memories for Kanon, and it would be painful for him to stay so he leaves. Or he can't work seriously without Shannon's support. As for why Shannon would forget him I assume that has something to do with George.

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>>4419191
It was Rosa.

Think about it.

Who else would know what the real Beatrice looked like? Who else would Battler talk to so casually about such things? Who else would be so desperate for a 12-year-old's cock?

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>>4419199
>Who else would know what the real Beatrice looked like?
Everybody who looked at the fucking picture of Beatrice that Kinzo had made just prior to death.

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>>4419216
Which showed up two years ago.

Beatrice personality was created six years ago.

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>>4419190

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Battler DID describe his ideal women to be Jessica , but said he didn't actually like Jessica herself 'like that.'

implying he didn't like her personality. Thus a new personality.

Although I doubt jessitrice, if ryukishi really did make jessica completely insane then it isn't redundant to make-believe a new personality with the same hair and eye color but different personality.

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>>4419190
She, being whoever "created" Beatrice, never described what personality she would have. Simply the physical features.

Battler seemed like the kind of kid who would innocently laugh in someones face if they confessed to him, especially a relative.

Take note that as unbelievable as it may sound, I don't really support Jessitrice, but as long as we're keeping retarded fake Erika theory up, might as well keep everything up.

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>>4419232
>Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Battler DID describe his ideal women to be Jessica , but said he didn't actually like Jessica herself 'like that.'

He said nothing of the sort.

>>4419235
>She, being whoever "created" Beatrice, never described what personality she would have.

Yes she did. One of the elements she gave to Beatrice was, word for word, "the new personality that he desires."

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>>4419224
Dude, the 'legend' was living since before the children were born and there had been prior 'Beatrices' that Kinzo kept. Also Kinzo ravings probably included screaming of what Beatrice looked like, so any nearby servant would most likely also know.

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>>4419254

If only someone had that screenshot of flashback battler and the monologue of beatrice then we could stop circlejerking over what exactly was said.

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>>4419265
It was stated explicitly in EP6 that while everyone knew of Beatrice and who she was, no one knew what she looked like until the portrait went up.

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>>4419277
It's been posted several times. Find it yourself.

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>>4419277
Then create a new thread. As we are blocked from any sort of pic posting from the image limit jackass.

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>>4419282
...Beatrice.
Listen carefully.
I will turn over my love for Battler to you.
Become the woman Battler desires.

I will give you the blonde hair he desires.
I will give you the blue eyes he desires.
I will give you the new personality he desires.
And... In place of me, love him.
And if possible, be loved by him.

I can no longer love him.
The feelings I could not obtain...the feelings I could not bear...please obtain them.

From this day forward, you are no longer the phantom of Rokkenjima who only plays tricks.
From this day forward, you are the ruler of Rokkenjima, and the one who waits for him to return until he fulfills his promise.

From this day forward, you will inherit that in my place.
Thus, from this day forward, you are no longer me.

I will push all of my suffering on to you... Please forgive me for being the only one to become happy.

From this day forward, you have the qualifications to detest everything.
You are the Golden Witch, Beatrice.

And someday.
Destroy everything, revive everything.
...Bless all lovers.

At that time.
...For both you and I to find happiness together...I will be wishing for from the bottom of my heart.

From this day on, you are not me.
From this day on, I am not you.
We will divide one soul, and share.
That naturally won't fill up one soul, but. (? not 100% sure about this line)
Surely it will allow (us/you/me? no subject defined) to see more dreams than a person.
May we be blessed...
My cute Beatrice...

I don't know where you guy see that the "creator" can love normally.
Of course she can if by normally it means killing everyone.
You should read things carefully before creating theories.

[Anonymous No.]

...Beatrice.
Listen carefully.
I will turn over my love for Battler to you.
Become the woman Battler desires.

I will give you the blonde hair he desires.
I will give you the blue eyes he desires.
I will give you the new personality he desires.
And... In place of me, love him.
And if possible, be loved by him.

I can no longer love him.
The feelings I could not obtain...the feelings I could not bear...please obtain them.

From this day forward, you are no longer the phantom of Rokkenjima who only plays tricks.
From this day forward, you are the ruler of Rokkenjima, and the one who waits for him to return until he fulfills his promise.

From this day forward, you will inherit that in my place.
Thus, from this day forward, you are no longer me.

I will push all of my suffering on to you... Please forgive me for being the only one to become happy.

From this day forward, you have the qualifications to detest everything.
You are the Golden Witch, Beatrice.

And someday.
Destroy everything, revive everything.
...Bless all lovers.

At that time.
...For both you and I to find happiness together...I will be wishing for from the bottom of my heart.

From this day on, you are not me.
From this day on, I am not you.
We will divide one soul, and share.
That naturally won't fill up one soul, but. (? not 100% sure about this line)
Surely it will allow (us/you/me? no subject defined) to see more dreams than a person.
May we be blessed...
My cute Beatrice...

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>>4419294
>The feelings I could not obtain...
I hate this part, because it's the only goddamn thing that doesn't fit Shannon like a glove.

Battler made it very clear as a child that he had the hots for Shannon.

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>>4419278
It's almost blatantly told in previous episodes that all the VERY trusted servants, Dr Nanjo, and Rosa met the previous 'Beatrice' that lived in the hidden mansion. This Beatrice is obviously not her though, but the picture is of the one of the previous ones so it doesn't matter.

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>>4419327
Not necessarily; what would you think if someone had made a promise to you, one that you considered very important and that you had thought they did as well, and then they never come back to fulfill it? You'd think that they may not have had feelings for you to begin with, right? And take a look at this: >>4418736.

>>4419329
> the picture is of the one of the previous ones
It's not, though; Battler recognized the piece Beatrice of Episode 4 by her face. Most likely i twas her dressed up with a wig and contacts or something, if they even had those back in the 80s.

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>>4419327
Except he left and completely forgot about her for 6 years strait, only remembering her AFTER he met her again. I think that counts enough. Though I partially agree, mainly because I hate Shkanon and am hoping for a Kanontrice end instead of a Shkanontrice end.

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>>4419327
He never confessed to her, though. Battler didn't seem to think he liked her, either, so they were probably both pretty oblivious. Not to mention he just said he didn't get along with quiet girls. What was she supposed to think?

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>>4419310
>I will give you the blonde hair he desires.
>I will give you the blue eyes he desires.

Makes me think Battler is some kind of Nazi.

Then again their symbol of the Ushiromiya family is the one winged eagle and Germany had a symbol with a golden eagle with a swastika. Kinzo was very involved in the war. Does this ring any bells?

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>>4419310
It says "the personality suited to him that he desires", not "the new personality that he desires."

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>>4419358
I, for one, like to think that the original Beatrice was actually Ordeze, the character from R07's short light novel "Verochia Dragoon Story".

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>>4419358
And Krauss is a pretty German name.

Eva is too, wasn't that Hitler's lover? Rudolf and Rosa could be also.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419373
Could you perhaps correct the translation for the other parts as well, please?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419373
...Ah, you're right. My mistake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419377

Rudolf means infamous wolf in german o shi

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419373
Even if it is that, it doesn't make much difference. As the fact that personality is even brought up means that there was conflicts with it in the first place. Ask yourself how you would take "I will give you the sex in which he desires.", if was also stated?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419377
Yeah Hitler's wife was named Eva Braun.

If you search up "Rudolf" and "germany" you also get some guy called Rudolph I of Habsburg

[Anonymous No.]

So...much...samefaggtry...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419432

Notice how there aren't more than 2 posts a minute?

There you go.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419432
u mad

[Anonymous No.]

I wish to have consensual sex in the missionary position with Erika. That is all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419476
She'd want it rough and hard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419476
>>4419488
>>4419469

Hey kid, your thread is just about at the bump limit. Perhaps you should make another.

[Anonymous No.]

Shannontrice, Kanontrice, Jessicatrice, Mariatrice, Rosatrice, and Battlertrice are all true. Kinzo runs a fucking Beatrice production factory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419495
Itching to fire up your infantile Cirno xchan dumper?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419488
>She'd give it to you rough and hard

Fixed; she is a rapist after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419378
From this day on, you are not me.
From this day on, I am not you.
Let's split up our one soul and share it.
Each half will naturally be less than one soul.
But surely that will allow us to see more dreams than a person would.
May we be blessed...
My dear Beatrice...

Although no one else can see your form,
at least I can see you.
And if you are loved by many people,
surely everyone else will become able to see you too.
With love, we can see...

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419516
> Although no one else can see your form,
> at least I can see you.
> And if you are loved by many people,
> surely everyone else will become able to see you too.
> With love, we can see...
...Looks like Jessitrice is eliminated.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419542
I didn't buy into that to begin with, but what does that destroy it more?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4419550

new thread