[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/jp/ - Otaku Culture

View post   
  [?]In ghost mode, only threads with non-archived posts will be shown
File: 1.65 MB, 645x2953, E2 Kanon&Jessica closed room.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4319544 No.4319544 [Reply] [Original]

This E2 Jessica's closed room faggotry was going on for too long. Burned a few gray cells on rereading half of E2, and can't help the obvious conclusion.
Feel free to poke in holes. I wouldn't have it any other way.

>> No.4319567

>>4319544

Thanks for the effort in creating that image OP. It summarizes things nicely.

What outlaws a copy of Jessica's single key though?

>> No.4319573

It is pretty obvious by now people are playing dead.

>> No.4319579

>>4319567
I dunno, I guess I just ruled out the possibility because after it being copied, it wouldn't be a "single key.

>> No.4319593

>>4319579

Well, ever since I read EP2 that has always been my theory, and nothing challenged it yet.

I define "Jessica's single key" as "Jessica owns a single key". X could have just copied it.

That about does it for the closed room. Kanon disappearing however..

>> No.4319596

>>4319544
...now that I look at it, the part with "corpse of Jessica" starts making sense, because while she may be able to talk about a corpse in red, she is counting people in room a the time and while "corpse of Jessica" isn't a person, Jessica herself is.

>> No.4319610

>>4319544
Strike 1: Jessica's body was seen by Battler, who was detective at the time.
Strike 2: Corpses personally seen by the detective cannot be misidentified.
Strike 3: Something that is not a corpse can be called a corpse, but you cannot mistake a corpse for something else.

THREE STRIKES! YOU'RE OUT!

>> No.4319611

>>4319593
The interesting part is that Kanon "was killed".
Were he really a part of Shkanontrice, how do I commit a homicide on someone's personality?

>> No.4319617

>>4319611
>Shkanontrice
People seriously believed in this?

>> No.4319620

>>4319610
Battler is incompetent and while he saw Jessica's corpse, he never checked it. If seeing it was sufficient, Erika would never mistake the bodies in E5 for dead.

Also, i's doubtful if Battler himself ever used the detective privilege.

>> No.4319686

>>4319620
Yeah, battler may be the detectives eye in eps 1-4, but he himself is not a detective.

In fact, think about it I'm pretty I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons erika was created, to make fun of that.
Basically she's the exact opposite of battler.

>> No.4319705

>>4319686
She is your typical late 19th, early 20th century detective who would never miss a clue if it's within sight. She just forgets that these clues are sometimes covered by a single blanket

And without love...

>> No.4319710

>>4319686
And because Battler is a self-insert intellectual happy-go-lucky guy, she is incomprehensible, has no personality and everything is constantly against her.

Makes sense.

>> No.4319716

>>4319686

Yep. But there's really nothing wrong with a classical murder mystery having no detectives, or even visible clues outside of dialogue and scene description. And Then There Were None is like that for example, the clues were there and I was able to pick up on it nonetheless (not a full deduction though, missed some steps).

>> No.4319744

>>4319610
even if Battler saw her corpse, he didn't check it, and that doesn't work even in corpses like the ones of the ep2 1st twillight where you can see a stomach open

>> No.4319757

>>4319596
Shit, I just noticed this. It couldn't be a TL error, could it? Because if it isn't, that may as well confirm it.

>> No.4319772

>>4319757
no, it isn't, I had it checked in animesuki about the whole sentence and the party of 'the corpse of' is white and with that meaning

>> No.4319779

>>4319772
>>4319772
well, it can also have the meaning of corpse as an adjective of 'corpse Jessica', but it doesn't make more sense

>> No.4319782

>>4319757
This is a 100% correct translation, WH agreed, don't bother them about it.
It's one of most discussed red stuff in the whole Umineko since E2, but it's funny how people still keep noticing this,

>> No.4319799

>>4319620
>>4319686
It was stated in red that Battler was the detective for the first four games. Additionally, the Knox Decalogue prevents the detective from being a biased observer, so he cannot lie about what he sees. Furthermore, he was always allowed to examine crime scenes when he wanted to, despite the fact that no detective authority was explicitly stated to have been used.

In short, Battler has had the detective authority for the first four games, and it implicitly granted him the privileges that Erika explicitly used in Episode 5.

>> No.4319824

>>4319799
but since he didn't bother to exercise those rights in most episodes, it's worth nothing.
Remember HIdeyoshi's murder, Erika went to check him in some ways to certify his death, the onlyn epsiode Battler did that was in the 1st twilight of ep1 adn in ep4

>> No.4319990

bump for justice

>> No.4320643

bump, I don't want to hear about this ever again

>> No.4320681

>>4319620
He checked Jessica's corpse, he says so himself later.
Seriously this corpse bullshit is going too far.

>> No.4320727

>>4319799
Where?

>> No.4320734

>>4320727
http://no-info.no-ip.info:6224/Umineko/ura5.html#nVBpUrKcSjIkaBqTVKfbEg

> Until now, you have been the DETECTIVE! Was it ever shown that you were not the detective this time, and that you were an observer with a subjective VIEWPOINT?!!

>> No.4320739

>>4320734
Lambda was also speaking about an exception.

>> No.4320744

>>4320734
And it is incoherent with the end of ep2. I mean, Battler raped by goatmen, objective?

>> No.4320751

>>4320744
That happened after the midnight.
And anything happening after the midnight is bullshit.

>> No.4320775

>>4320681
Where?

>> No.4320776

>>4320744
He's dead drunk or otherwise incapable of observing objectively at the end of ep2, as evidenced by the fact he sees and hears Kinzo.

Depending on your interpretation of the detective rule (it's debatable whether it prevents hallucinations) it can imply that it was a hallucination or dream, or that Battler actually wasn't the narrator for that part (especially since the encounter with Genji is third person) and really was unconscious, or that Knox doesn't apply to the second game (which is possible, as Dlanor warned).

>> No.4320806
File: 47 KB, 646x508, S00001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4320806

>>4320751
Well in my memory midnight in ringing in the middle of this scene. It was already clearly a mess before.

>> No.4320818

You know what else witch hunt agreed on? That this is retarded.

You can argue this theory if you want. Just keep in mind that if you accept this theory, all red is entirely worthless. Forget about red and just cast your favorite characters as culprits, how fun. Red is a cake XD (get it, because portal)

Fuck off.

>> No.4320835

>>4320818
Oh yeah, and you can discard the detective's viewpoint, because unless the detective executes their authority dead people are always actually alive, especially if they're said to be corpses in red. Even if their guts are hanging out or if they're got stakes buried into them. ESPECIALLY if they've got stakes buried into them.

>> No.4320851

>>4320776
well, the way Dlanor states it, the detective can't lie, that's what she means by objective. But the detective's actually able to misunderstand what he's seeing. She only questions whether Battler is the detective because it's also stated the corpses couldn't be misidentified, and that's when he mentions Kinzo couldn't either.

So, the detective can still observe wrong, it's just that it wasn't possible for the corpses in episode 5 because of the red.

>>4319544
COme on, that one's easy, the room was locked from outside with Jessica's key, and then the key placed in the room after reopening it and finding the corpse.

>> No.4320858

Or the red could be more complicated that it looks at first view, as it is showed since the beginning.
In Anti-mystery vs anti-fantasy, Ronove says that maybe even Beato doesn't know the truth, so it could be the truth for beato, who is supposed to know everything, but she could be wrong.
I don't have any opinion on that, but in any way, it's more complicated that " it's written in red, so it's true".

>> No.4320875

This room isn't even hard. Kumasawa's key, Shannon's key, Genji's key or Gohda's key could have been used. Gohda and Kumasawa both have no alibis, and Shannon and Genji have fake alibis. The only reason Battler makes it hard is because he doesn't want to suspect one of the 17.

>> No.4320879

>>So, the detective can still observe wrong, it's just that it wasn't possible for the corpses in episode 5 because of the red.

Doesn't she says (even if she was wrong on one point) that Battler couldn't have misunderstand Kinzo if he was the detective? (even if he ends ep saying that Erika is the detective, Dlanor still said that)

>> No.4320884

>>4320858
Everyone who doesn't trust the red may as well give up on trying to solve Umineko. It's a symbol of trust between the reader and R07. If you want to call the red subjective, or not necessarily true, or if you want to say things can just be redefined in red "Did say corpse? I meant living body. Did I say dead? I meant alive. Did I say they're innocent? I meant they're a murderer" you're always setting yourself back to square 1, and you will never solve anything.

>> No.4320906

>>4320884
The red was a HINT given by Beatrice, so Battler can find the trust. the most important part isn't about the red being true or not. It is about where the red is leading, even if the red text was actually a lie.
And the text where Ronove talk about the red was also written by ryukishi...

>> No.4320917

But...Battler ISN'T a detective. This isn't a detective novel. It's just a guy, tryin to figure out what the fuck is going on.

How would rule that apply to a detective novel apply to "real life" anyway?

Stupid meta-bullshit I say.

>> No.4320922

>>4320906
It is a fact that Jessica, George, Rosa and Maria died at some point during the game, and it was homicide. Perhaps Erika can only say that red because after they really died, they were witnessed by a large amount of people at some point? Erika is making the point that if anyone saw those corpses, they would not be mistaken, and there wouldn't be a false autopsy. Therefore, since the corpses were supposed to be witnessed in that room, they must have really been dead.

However, Ronove makes the point that someone could witness something that wasn't their corpse and call it a corpse. Not in red, but for a witness to mistake what they see, or lie about it, which is probably what happened.

As for Beato's "hint", that's just bullshit. She also "hinted" that Rosa must be the culprit, but Rosa was with Battler practically the entire time. She was a minor accomplice at best.

>> No.4320931

>>4320917
Well for me Knox rules break a little too much the 4th wall. I understood when it was in the tea party of ep1, but here, in-story, it is a little too much for me

>> No.4320933

There is a difference between episode 2 and episode 5.
The GM of episode 2 is Beatrice who WANTS Battler to find the truth.
The GM of episode 5 is Lambdadelta who wants to continue the game forever.

That's why episode 5 was so unreliable.

>>4320917
Easy, episode 1-6 aren't real.
Fiction, etc...

>> No.4320963

>>4319544
Makes more sense than a persona dying, I'd say.

>> No.4320976

>>4320922
I am not talking about this shitty theory,
I am talking about the red on a large-scale.
Red could be subjective for exemple,and it would still not break everything in umineko. I mean, beato says that "everything I say in red is the truth." Isn't the ending of ep5 clear enough on the fact that there is not ONE truth, but many, according to the interpretation? Yeah, the red truth is a symbol of trust. And can't Beato just be wrong sometimes, as it is suggested by Ronove?
I still think that red is the truth, and all this bullshit, but it is not so difficult to mess with this statement.

>> No.4320979

THERE WERE NO MURDERS, EVERYONE IS PLAYING DEAD, BATTLER IS INCOMPETENT

>> No.4320984

>>4320976
Calling the red subjective is just stupid. This is also a mystery novel, and as such there is a static truth behind the events that doesn't change. It's bullshit for red to just depend on what that person believes to be true. I don't know why people would want to suggest that, because if it was so, I would just drop this VN. Beause it's grade A bullshit, as massive cop-out. Red text is a sign of trust and a "subjective" truth would be a violation.

>> No.4320998

>>4320984
This is a bad mystery novel and Ryukishi makes up bullshit like colored truths to pretend he gives you clues. You think too hard.

>> No.4321004

>>4320998
You trust too little.

>> No.4321005

>>4320984
At the point where we have personas being killed by other personas, I think we can call shenanigans on Ryukushicakes.

>> No.4321007

>>4321004
It's not about trust, it just has become stupid.

>> No.4321012

>>4321007
It's only become stupid if you actually believe this bullshit about subjective red.
>>4321005
At least that was actually foreshadowed. Plenty of clues, like how Kanon's corpse is never seen.

>> No.4321014

>>4320984
Pure mystery novels have no red truth. Fixed.

>> No.4321018

>>4321012
There are so many reasons Umineko has jumped teh shark, subjective Red ranks like 8th,

>> No.4321020

>>4321012
It's still blatantly retarded, and ridiculous. Kanon was murdered. But it's not suicide, because his other persona murdered him!

Yeah, I should trust in Ryukushi. My faith is so strong.

>> No.4321022

>>4321018
Subjective red truth would rank 1st. And stop acting as if this stuff is confirmed.

>> No.4321028

>>4321020
I agree that it's pretty stupid. Yet it makes some degree of sense. "A corpse is not a corpse" does not.

>> No.4321031

Yes, a sig of trust. And if you are wrong on one point, you still will not betray anyone, even with a red truth. You will just be wrong and feel stupid. That's all.

Anyway, there is still a lot of strange red truth in the game. Such as
"Come home quickly, Onii-chan!!"
in red.

>> No.4321032

>>4321028
No, it still doesn't make sense.
But Ronove agreed about a corpse being something other than a corpse, so it's rather moot.

>> No.4321046

>>4321032
>But Ronove agreed about a corpse being something other than a corpse, so it's rather moot.
Only because you're interpreting it the wrong way. More specifically, pay attention to what happens after Ronove says that. See
>>4320922

>> No.4321047

>>4321028
it makes sense, if many people think it's a corpse, it's a corpse, but objectivly speaking, it isn't

>> No.4321051

>>4321031
So what? Ange says those things in red that show her feelings are sincere and that she really is his sister. It's not anything on this level.

>> No.4321052

>>4321046
Well, corpse can be said in red, and not be a corpse. That's the gist of it.

>> No.4321062

>>4321047
That's what you think is the gist of it. The idea is that people witnessed corpses in that room. However, they did not. Where is the red that says people witnessed corpses in that room? The idea is that people saw something and called that a corpse, lying or otherwise.

Jessica, George, Maria and Rosa were not dead at that point in time. However, by 24:00, they had died. They were murdered, because in red, all deaths were homicides. Therefore, Erika saying their corpses were witnessed could only work with red because they were indeed witnessed, when they really died. Just like Erika saying they are dead only works because they really were dead at 24:00.

>> No.4321070

her FEELINGS.
FEELINGS = subjective.
It has nothing to do in red. Which is supposed to be absolute. this kind of things just change the red truth into a mess.

Anyway it's just a random exemple. If you take a look, there are worses.
"Don't leave me alone!!!"
*cackle* => "Yeah, I am really laughing" ?

Anyway, my PoV is that
Beato's red truth => Ok, she "made a pact" with Battler.
Every other people => Can be true, but have to be taken cautiously. Especially when it is Lambda or Bern.

>> No.4321077

Oh great. So I made this thread at morning and now we are discussing Shkanontrice.

Nevertheless, keep going.

>> No.4321088

>>4321070
How are feelings subjective? She wants him to come home, she knows that is an objective fact. That's the same no matter how you look at it. You could say she doesn't really want him to come home because you don't understand her feelings, but you'd be wrong.

You're over analyzing some red that's only put in for dramatic effect. Claiming that the red is subjective because of mere flavor is stupid. Especially since the red being subjective would be the greatest betrayal on the behalf of the author.

If the red isn't subjective, how come Battler couldn't say Asumu was his mother? Surely before that, he truly believed she was? He even tried in several times. But don't bother, I've heard the idea before "hurr, what Beatrice was saying before that made him doubt it so he couldn't say it"

I don't know why you all WANT the red to be worthless shit so badly.

>> No.4321110

>>4321088
Yes, I believe red is true, but it is somehow affected by mass perception.
Which is why what is once stated to be a corpse can be called corpse, but it can't be defined that way.

However, the "corpse in red" trick would, of course, never work on the stuff about mountain of gold.

Anyway, are there any clues to what Gold is? Other than Battler confirmed magic several times in E6 in gold, or so i heard?

>> No.4321115

So basically what you are saying is.

Since there is no rule of something that isn't a corpse being called a corpse, something like 'Jessica's Corpse' in red is suspicious, especially when it's not in red as 'the corpse of Jessica'

Okay, I will live with this. Makes more sense now.

>> No.4321123

>>4321110
All R07 has said was in an interview - whoever knows the truth should be able to use the red (he gave lamdadelta as an example). In episode 6 Beatrice uses the gold to talk about some magic that is done with sleight of hand. I can't see the gold being used too seriously

>> No.4321125

>>4320922 implying that Rosa isn't suspicious
She talked with Nanjo in private.
She also talked with Genji in private.
She the letters.
She also never suspected Genji although he is easily the only person more suspicious than her.

>> No.4321132

>>4321115
Well yeah, that's it, I can't really pull off more than that from all the clues in the game.

>> No.4321133

>>.4321115
That doesn't follow. If something that is not a corpse can really be called in corpse in red, there should be no problem whatever way it's said. It doesn't help this theory any that it's said in red one way but not the other. I think with hunt even said the phrasing is exactly the same for both "corpse" points, so why does it matter?

>> No.4321140

Anonymous 07/27/09(Mon)20:49 No.23400112
While attending to the family conference late in the evening, Rosa came by the kitchen and mentioned to Gohda that there was going to be a Halloween party for Maria in the chapel the next day Thinking this was a wonderful idea, Gohda decided to make some special treats for the occasion, but because he was distracted he accidentally reached for the box marked 'Tiny Food Bombs" instead of the sugar He gave some of the treats to Rosa, who took them to her siblings. They all went to the chapel to check out the party since they'd probably be too tired in the morning, when the tiny food bombs exploded and killed everyone but Rosa, who wasn't hungry.
Later, Gohda was hanging out and he heard Jessica having an asthma attack. Rushing upstairs, he found Kanon with her and reached for her inhaler, but as he swung it over to give it to her she tripped and he accidentally impaled her in the back with it. Kanon assumed he was trying to kill her and they struggled, and Gohda accidentally pushed Kanon out the window. Realizing he was going to get in so much trouble for this, he quietly locked the window, planted a stake in Jessica's wound, and walked off whistling.
While bored, Gohda decided to show off a new knife trick he learned to Nanjo and Kumasawa. Disaster occurred. Genji suggested they blame Kanon for it so nobody would find out, and dump the bodies somewhere.
Later in the evening, George and Shannon refused to believe Gohda's claim that he was capable of juggling three Stakes of Purgatory at the same time. Upset, Gohda offered to prove it to them in Natsuhi's room. Tragically, he was not as proficient as he thought he was.
Genji called Battler upstairs to tell him everything. Battler couldn't accept this ridiculous scenario, and declared that it was more likely that a witch did it.

>> No.4321145

>>4321140
It's funny because this actually passes all the red. Except for the small bombs part. There is no need for Jessica's death to be faked.

>> No.4321146

>>4321133
There is a difference in concept.

At first she is using the body as a part of some other statement, and possibly calling it what it isn't. She is just using it to specify time.
At second part, however, she is directly counting people in the room and can't call "corpse" a person. However, she still calls Jessica herself a person.

Read the damn thread.

>> No.4321149

>>4321145
Small bombs isn't denied in red, unless you mean the Knox rule. But then what's complex about bombs that are small?

>> No.4321150

>>I don't know why you all WANT the red to be worthless shit so badly.

you are the one who take it like this.
Yes, she really wanted to take him home. And even if it is true, it still proves that it is subjective to ONE point of view. So you can apply what Dlanor Battler and Erika speech in the ???? of ep5 to this. Yeah, red tell the truth. The truth for the people who says it. But there is many truth in the world, and all this crap.
And it is not worthless, especially in the 4 first ep.
On an other point, what's the purpose of saying this in red, did ryukishi thought that the reader or Batler will think that she is lying about this?

For Battler, the most ridiculous thing is that Beato LET HIM use the red truth. So she could also just let him say only what she wanted him to say. Yeah, it's ridiculous.
Just like the whole idea of " I'll let you use the red, even if at this point you're not supposed to be able to do it.".

Anyway, I don't know if the red truth is absolute, subjective. or anything. But it is clearly more complicated that just a " LOL IT'S TRUE OK, WHATEVER, JUST TAKE THIS LIGHTLY".

>> No.4321152

>>4321146
Sounds pretty stupid to me. Considering in this theory the "corpse" is a living person (lol), she should easily be able to do it.

>> No.4321153

>>4321149
In red, The six people were not killed by traps.

>> No.4321156

>>All R07 has said was in an interview - whoever knows the truth should be able to use the red (he gave lamdadelta as an example). In episode 6 Beatrice uses the gold to talk about some magic that is done with sleight of hand. I can't see the gold being used too seriously


Well, at least we know that is is not considered as a "fantasy" color. Which make ep6 even more strange.

>> No.4321158

>>4321110
Well, I dunno about episode 6, but in episode 5 the underlying message is that Battler's golden truth is a fact that has actually been observed during the game.

Battler has actually seen Kinzo's body, but as the mention of Ackroyd and "and then there were none" hints at, he's either only alluded to it in his narration or disguised the statement. But that's why he can garantee it's true, because he has seen it and could point out the precise clue and hidden proof to justify himself, as opposed to red which can be any arbitrary statement.

In meta it's the territory lord's right because the proof is right there on the game board.

Dunno how it meshes with ep 6 though.

>> No.4321159

>>4321150
The problem with the red being subjective is that anyone who believes a certain thing to be true could say it in red. It becomes completely unreliable and useless.

>> No.4321182

>>4321159
But there is a very few people who is able touse it. And moreover only beato really want to show "the truth" to Battler.
I agree, It is probably a little exagerated.
But in the beginning beato was the only one who wanted to show the truth to Battler anyway, so I think we can trust her. Or at least use her red. Anyhow.

>> No.4321197

>>4321149
No. It's whether you
a)talk about body as a thing(then it's called a corpse) or
b)a person that is or is not present in the room.

You can't say that 'The people in this room is you, that guy, that maido and Jessica's Corpse', because Jessica's Corpse isn't a person.
If I am to guess that this part means, well, anything, it would mean that Jessica is alive inside a body that is recognized as a corpse enough to be called that.

Or you could just read the thread where it was explained already.

>>4321159
Yes.
By the way, many people misunderstand the initial purpose of this thread. It's not like I'm forcing Jesstrice on you or anything.

>> No.4321220

>>4321150
>
For Battler, the most ridiculous thing is that Beato LET HIM use the red truth. So she could also just let him say only what she wanted him to say. Yeah, it's ridiculous.
>Just like the whole idea of " I'll let you use the red, even if at this point you're not supposed to be able to do it.".

She never "let him" do anything. It's implied meta-Battler could do it from the beginning, he just hadn't been told, similar to most other rules of the game. And as illustrated with the statement about his mother he can't say stuff that doesn't conform with reality anyway. So there's nothing ridiculous about it.

>> No.4321227

>>4321150 only whoever knows the truth can use red
wat
That's gold, amirite?

>> No.4321257
File: 75 KB, 1440x900, S00004.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321257

>>4321220

(It was less troublesome to search it in the anime that in the VN)

Well, she said it in white, if you want to doubt about it. But doubting in every white thing is just worse that doubting in the red.

>> No.4321275

Well, the Shkanontrice explanation is that Kanon "died", but he had a master key, so he could easily open the door.
Isn't this a tad simpler?

>> No.4321294

>>4321275
I'd say it is and it isn't. It's simpler in the fact that the open room had no tricks to it, but then you had Shannon just wake up, and see her best friend's dead body on the ground. You'd suspect she'd warn people of such a thing.

>> No.4321300
File: 10 KB, 282x192, Bern 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321300

I love how people are saying Umineko has jumped the shark and Ryukishi is a terrible writer BASED ON THEIR UNCONFIRMED, RETARDED THEORIES.

>> No.4321309

>>4321227
Nah, reasoning by >>4321158
For gold knowledge isn't enough, you've actually got proof. It's the difference between a logic predicate and a fact.

Like, I can say 1+1=2, but there isn't actually any proof, it's just true as the consequence of a rule system built upon a few arbitrary truths, rules that were agreed upon. "false is the opposite of true" is one of those fundamental arbitrary truths, for example. It is absolutely impossible to prove or disprove, it is true by definition. So it could be stated as a red truth. Battler and the reader's trouble with the red comes from the fact we don't know all the rules.

Golden truth would be like saying "my car's parked outside" when it really is. It works because it's true AND can be verified.

>> No.4321310
File: 40 KB, 300x225, Schadenfreude.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321310

>>4321300
Bern! I believe in you! Shatter all the delusions!

>> No.4321313
File: 82 KB, 560x749, Bern 49.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321313

>>4321310
And there shall be much rejoicing.

>> No.4321314

>>4321300
I approve. But they have a better knowledge of this game than his author, so... *cackle*

>> No.4321327

Is Shkannontrice dead yet ?

>> No.4321332

>>4321327
Not yet dead, no.
Kanon is still a bro, though.

>> No.4321336

>>4321327
Shkanontrice will never die. Even if ryukishi says in red, gold, and in an interview that Kanon != Shannon!= Beatrice, people who want Shkanontrice and who want to troll will always find something to say.

>> No.4321352

>>4321197
It's stated in red that Jessica is in the room though.
And that no one is hiding.
So if the corpse isn't her, where is Jessica?
Considering she HAS to be in the room and that Battler has to be aware of her.

>> No.4321362

I miss last night. The spirit of the pony theory was strong, and we were bros.

>> No.4321368

>>4321257
>But doubting in every white thing is just worse that doubting in the red.
No, it's perfectly acceptable and you know it. Not that this would make the game any easier to solve.

>> No.4321369

>>4321352
...are you sure you even want to understand what I mean?

Jessica is playing dead with the help of at least Nanjo.
>implying
in E2, a lot.

>> No.4321370
File: 486 KB, 650x512, hm, this seems famiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilar.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321370

>>4321336
Moonfag here, I do have to say, the theory is strong. Quite so, in fact. It explains why Kanon and Shannon are the only people who call themselves furniture. I dislike it by itself because it means that everyone died for a fucktarded reason.

I like the Moon-chan theory specifically because you have an absolute evil taking advantage of an obviously ill girl. And also, it goes without saying, because Kinzo planning for something two years in advance is convoluted. Battler being confirmed to be the one coming on the island is something that happened way affter Kinzo's death.

There was, however, one person who was made aware of Battler coming to the island before anyone else. One person who was the first to know, and one person who could set the SNAFU into place.

>> No.4321375

>>4321352
Like Kinzo, into a stone or under the tapestry.

>> No.4321381

>>4321368
Yeah, as acceptable as saying "Beato was lying about the red truth". No less, no more.

>> No.4321391

>>4321370
FUCKING MOON-CHAN.
Kinzo couldn't have known about Battler coming onto the island, yeah, but still, does Battler coming on the island really mean anything?

>> No.4321392

>>4321352
The corpse is her. It's her "corpse" because her body is technically dead from insulin overdose. But she's still alive.

>> No.4321402

>>4321381
In white, this could have been said. That's the point here.
There is nothing that binds a single white statement as true. So, it's okay if you don't want to trust a single one of them.
Red, however, is another story.

>> No.4321410

>>4321381
Beato said that whenever she would use the red truth, that would be the truth for the game.
Nothing is said about other people using it though.

>> No.4321413

In gold text, from episode six: "Using magic, you created a golden rose petal underneath the cup. It was a magnificent display of magic."

>> No.4321416

>>4321352
That's the joke.

Jessica is in the room.
corpse of Jessica=/=Jessica is dead

>>4321392
Not sure about the insuline, I can't imagine anyone would do this willingly. I even think it can be pulled off just with a theatre stake replica.

>> No.4321417
File: 555 KB, 853x480, true.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321417

>>4321410
Oh really?

>> No.4321439

>>4321370
Oh, Jessica, you sketchy bitch. You sketchy, sketchy bitch.
She's either the most innocent character in the game, or the least, at this point.

>> No.4321446

>>4321439
we know Ryu doesn't like innocent characters, Mion was the exception

>> No.4321447

>>4321416
>>corpse of Jessica=/=Jessica is dead
Actually corpse of Jessica does mean that Jessica is dead.

>> No.4321449

>>4321402
You can also doubt the red. It's not because Battler is believing it that you HAVE to do it. Even if it looks harder, it is not stupid at all. It's all a matter of trust. So absolutely, it's the same.

>> No.4321450

>>4321370
Um, I'm sure the entire house (Natsuhi/Krauss/etc) would have been made aware around the same time Jessica was.

>>4321416
>>4321392
>>4321369
OH GOD HERE COME THE MOON-CHAN FAGS TO DEFEND THEIR STUPID IDEAS, FORGETTING THAT CORPSE = A DEAD BODY.

I swear this lolinsulin shit is retarded.

>> No.4321455

>>4321447
or not
that's the question here
he's made enough to doubt that corpses are actually dead

>> No.4321462

>>4321450
OH GOD HERE COME THE SHKANONTRICE FAGS HERE TO HAVE EVERY MYSTERY BE SOLVED BY THE KILLING OF PERSONAS AND RAPID FIRE CROSS DRESSING

>> No.4321465

>>4321417
yeah, and EVA was saying it. Who had no intention for battler to find the truth. and who had not made a pact with battler as Beato, so she COULD be screwing the rules. ( I insist on the could.)

>> No.4321471

>>4321455
Battler saw her corpse.
And I'm sure all the people in the room would have realized that Nanjo would have administered the insulin and started heavy breasts massage, both of which are necessary to start the heart again.

>> No.4321473

So wait, first it was Mystery versus Fantasy.
Then it was Pony versus Lolitrice.
Now it is Shkanontrice versus Moon-chan.

Ryukushi, I am disappoint.

>> No.4321475

>>4321471
not in Ryu, at least
based on ep6, the rule for this is like a short term coma that goes off on its own

>> No.4321476

If ShKanon happens, persona have to be able to die.

Simply because Shannon and Kanon die at different times and places in episode 2 and 4.

So either Shannon and Kanon are 2 different persons or you have to accept that persona die in Umineko.

>> No.4321481
File: 16 KB, 704x396, shannon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321481

>>4321471
Did someone say heavy breast massage? But obviously, suspension of disbelief is allowed here. DID does not work the way it works in Umineko, so naturally Insulin can function differently as well.

>> No.4321482

>>4321475
Stop inventing shits.

>> No.4321500

>>4321482
not inventing
Erika herself says so, and since she was to be controlling everyone, it's obvious to think that the thing goes off on its own
I'm just basing it on the things the writer said thus valid even if it's not really true in the real world

>> No.4321509
File: 54 KB, 497x497, cateyes close.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321509

>>4321481
>implying anyone in Umineko has DID

>> No.4321520

>>4321509
or at the very least, everyone has awful mood swings

>> No.4321527

>>4321520
Well, I can't wait to see RUDOLF-Beatrice

>> No.4321528

I still don't understand why Rosa lied about seeing Kinzo in EP2, which means she could of lied about seeing Beatrice which Kyrie backed up.

>> No.4321539

>>4321528
Hey, Rosa lies about Kinzo, Krauss lies about Kinzo, Jessica lies about Kinzo, everyone freaking lies about Kinzo.

>> No.4321545

>>4321528
actually Kyrie was the one who said it

>> No.4321551

>>4321539
Well, for Krauss and possibly Jessica we can understand why, at least.

>> No.4321558

>>4321545
I thought Rosa went "hey i saw beatrice(or something like that)", then Kyrie backed her up by going "hey i saw a werid blonde woman".

>> No.4321573

>>4321551
Well, for Jessica, it normally makes sense, until her shenanigans on the phone in episode 4. Her first shenanigans, not her second shenanigans.
LOLOLOL MOM'S DEAD TTYL GUYS OFF TO KILL KINZO

>> No.4321575

>>4321558
no, Kyrie was the one starting about the new guest, i don't even remeber Rosa talking about it

>> No.4321583

bmp

Hi help me anon and /jp/. Irish porn bankers wear our skin using VR and wireless

OK also.

http://groups.google.com/group/singularity-aliens

^^ God Jesus Christ Jesus God Please Christ Please join this please it's not some gay govt shit. Something is actually happening here

http://groups.google.com/group/singularity-aliens

just use your gmail click around and find join it's only like one message a day and it is fuckin cutting edge i don't know of anyone else in the world with one of these terror domination torture and control implants that also pretend to be really smart and cool but they're fucking real

http://groups.google.com/group/singularity-aliens

holy shit third time just join ok ty ilu flmat

please please. it's not really about aliens

It's really about vr-telepresence torture-porn perpetuated by the elite on the attractive and underweight of the underclasses. We don't get any money but they steal our experiences and thoughts and memories and dreams and lives and feelings, it's terrible. It's actually sexual it's rape but if you ignore it, it's fine. Don't worry about me

The govt has all the trolls there they need, MKULTRA COINTELPRO MJ12 all talk to each other so I hope I just get people who really do wonder whats going on. We're only being trickled technology and it's filled with bugs and shit and probably nanobots are everywhere watching who they haven't implanted yet. But those they have implanted they wear our bodies and torture us in groups for fun. I shit you not

I'm happy you got to hear this here. Get on the mailing list, it is reputable. I'm updating about this 'contact' phenomenon with my implant semi daily right now and hopefully there will be another soon. I will call him Majestic Two

Note this is not some role playing shit

>> No.4321585

>>4321575
Right i'm firing up EP2!

>> No.4321605 [DELETED] 

bump


Posting this everywhere now goodbye

Software shown is http://arbornet.org/~flamoot/telepathic-critterdrug.html [note not shown here also ilu flamoot]

If you need fire mode and dont mind compiling gc lib yourself try http://ansistego.sf.net/critterdrug-use-32-32.telepaths-profile-for-fire-anim-with-critters.tar.gz

^^ note this link was borked before :( when it said arbornet im sorry you can do it now though ilu

also truth about scientolgt http://arbornet.org/~flamoot

look sometimes this damn thing is really smart and funny but then i think it's just rich guys in mo-cap body-suits
in the boardroom on their lunch break messing with invisible but awesome young people like me, flamoot, and they
are doing lines of coke so i think it's too fast to be human, then an AI or aliens definitely

like this dwarf on my mud parried the other day and it like twitched so i looked in my head which i normally don't
have to do to see all kinds of stuff it does and, it made like it was holding up some big axe (invisible) and kissing
it sort of proudly but gently damn everything it does is so damn gentle and smooth inappropriately like sarcastic,
but also sometimes violent it's so loud or fast. well read on ilu ilu flamoot ilu

>> No.4321611

>>4321575
Rosa was actually with Maria in the rose garden when Beatrice delivered the letter.

>> No.4321646

Kyrie brings up the guest-Beatrice.

Rosa says she 'also met her' after that.

>> No.4321653

What I don't understand is why "Jessica's corpse" can't mean "a corpse that belongs to Jessica" and has to mean "the dead Jessica" herself.

Can't Beato have realized that she was talking about -or had to have been talking about- Jessica's possession and went "OOPS LOL".

>> No.4321654

>>4321611
I don't trust exactly what Maria said, EP4 when she claimed to meet Kinzo makes what she says suspicious.
But of course i can't imagine how Rosa could kill multiple people.

>> No.4321668

>>4321654

Maria never claimed she met Kinzo.

Rosa claimed Maria met Kinzo.

Big difference.

>> No.4321678

>>4321668
Of course, of course.
Again Rosa makes no sense, not to mention Rosa has never been staked.
But maybe i'm overlooking something but how did Maria learn about magic?

>> No.4321693

>>4321654
Regarding Rosa killing, poison seems a good bet. She mentions she brought tea to the island for Kumasawa in Ep1. The first twilight is easy for anyone in all games if the bodies are drugged then mutilated.

I'm not really convinced Rosa is the culprit in any episodes except for possibly Ep2 though. Ep5 got me thinking that the first twilight is always supposed to be faked by the family, but someone happened across the drugged bodies and killed them. It didn't work in Ep5 because Erika sealed everything, so they had to be moved and killed later.

>> No.4321704

>>4321653
Problem is that episode 5 states that there is no bodies on the island other than those of people who appear in the story.
So it can't be a body double.

>> No.4321722

>>4321704
What if they appear in the story but we have no idea what they look like?

>> No.4321734

Kyrie and Rosa are accomplices of Beatrice in episode 2 and 3.

That's why Kyrie plays along with Rosa in episode 2.
Kyrie probably didn't know that Beatrice would kill Rudolf so she probably objected and finally got killed in this episode.
Rosa who didn't care about her siblings continued the charade.

In episode 3, Rudolf isn't in danger so Kyrie continue to play along.
Both her and Rosa move Shannon's body when no one is looking into the chapel and dress her like Kanon to complete the impossible closed room.

Afterward Rosa and Kyrie have a fight outside and Kyrie finally kill Rosa, probably was an accident though.
A bit later, she finds a cigarette butt outside and realize that Hideyoshi could have see, what happened.
So she decides to corner him, she probably didn't expect Hideyoshi to be very proficient with weapons though.
So Kyrie, Rudolf and Hideyoshi die there.

>> No.4321735

>>4321653
It can mean Kanon, or anyone else that was supposed to be dead. It wouldn't have necessarily have been a body double for Jessica, or everyone could have seen a wig on the corpse or lied or something stupid.
But it would fit in the form of "Battler 'knows' that the body is there, but not really LOL so the corpse wasn't really moved and it doesn't violate the red truth"

>> No.4321740

>>4321417
Oh, look, a character that isn't Beatrice (I mean, Beato) using the red, telling me red is truth!
How does this counter my argument again?

>> No.4321744

>>4321722
Story means on Rokkenjima, aka the 17.

>> No.4321745

>>4321704
But is a body double, something which is not alive, really a body?...

>> No.4321751

>>4321735
>>4321653
Doesn't change anything, Jessica is stated to be in the room and it's also stated that nobody is hiding.
So where is she?

>> No.4321752

>>4321734
Kyrie & Rosa in EP2 seem to have quite a bit of bad blood between them, when Kyrie speaks it's almost like she's sneering at Rosa.

>> No.4321754

>>4321745
So this 'corpse' is just a blow-up doll...?

>> No.4321765

>>4321751
No one is 'hiding'-- they are out in plain sight, and the red truth states their existence by "Jessica's corpse", at least my interpretation of it.

Jessica could still be there, playing dead, or on the ceiling and waving and whatnot.

This introduces the possibility that either Kanon was never moved, or Jessica is storing bodies, or that the body double was mistaken for her and that she is still alive.

>> No.4321766
File: 90 KB, 639x481, no doubles.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321766

>> No.4321771

>>4321766
Why can't the corpse have been someone in the story? That's exactly what I'm saying.

>> No.4321774

>>4321765
Jessica is a ninja. Interesting.

>> No.4321776
File: 102 KB, 633x478, 2010-02-07_122637.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321776

Can someone explain to me why this doesn't automatically disprove the fucktarded Shkannon theory?

>> No.4321778

>>4321774
I wouldn't put it past her.

>> No.4321780

>>4321766
Now, this is a funny dilema we reach.
What's up with Shannon's "corpse" in episode 1?

>> No.4321784

>>4321774
Wouldn't put it past her.

>> No.4321785

>>4321734
>Both her and Rosa move Shannon's body when no one is looking into the chapel and dress her like Kanon to complete the impossible closed room.
Yeah, right.

>> No.4321790

>>4321776
If Shannon is Kanon, it means that they are the same person.
It's fucking logic.

>>4321780
Battler never sees it.

>> No.4321791

>>4321776
Because LOL the DID personalities never claimed they were Kanon, only the one Kanon had.

>> No.4321796

>>4321780
Well Kanon & Hideyoshi saw her "corpse", the identity are confirmed so either both of them are telling the truth or we can't trust Hideyoshi & Kanon.

>> No.4321797

>>4321785
Kyrie and Rosa are the only one who would be able to do that, they both separated from the group.

And they both act in a weird way in episode 2 and 3.

>> No.4321798
File: 72 KB, 635x475, 2010-02-07_122406.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321798

>>4321780

There's nothing "up" with Shannon's corpse. It is Shannon.

>> No.4321806

>>4321798
Shannon's "corpse" was identified by Kanon and Hideyoshi.
This red text doesn't work on her.

>> No.4321808

Can you fuckers please stop writing it as "corpse" IT WAS STATED IN RED THEY ARE REAL CORPSES SHKANNON IS RETARDED YOU ARE ALL FAGGOTS

>> No.4321811

>>4321808
It was only stated for SOME of the "corpses", those that had been identified.

>> No.4321815

>>4321734
# It is impossible for the murder to have taken place outside the room!!
# I shall say more with the red! When the five other than Kinzo were murdered, the murderer was definitely in the same room!

>> No.4321816

and clarifying again: The red there says "No one can claim Kanon's name but the original person" in Japanese.

Just so no one gets 'himself' in their minds too much.

And yeah, we know, Shkanon doesn't work with that and the Episode 1 and 3 body count.

Nobody listens anyway because they're morons.

>> No.4321820

>>4321798

If Shannon's corpse is guarenteed to be Shannon, and Kannon clearly dies later on in episode 1, they HAVE to be two separate people.

Plus, doesn't Erika actually see them together in Episode 5? There are too many fucking holes in Shkannon for it to be a valid theory.

>> No.4321827
File: 43 KB, 224x203, Beato Troll.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321827

#The people who were in the neighboring room at the time it was sealed were Hideyoshi, George, Kumasawa, Shannon, and Nanjo. And, there were exactly five people in the neighboring room. No one other than the people corresponding to those five names existed! All names refer only to the actual people!


So where's Kanon?

>> No.4321828

Hello Shkanontrice fags.
How does it feel to have your theory destroyed little by little?

>> No.4321830

>>4321820

Well the theory is that Battler's perspective sees them while Erika is present.

Of course, that doesn't address how Erika, who should be seeing through her owns pieces eyes (why the fuck would she see through Battler's, or not know what her piece sees?) wouldn't know there's only one person there.

The entire theory is absolutely retarded.

>> No.4321835

>>4321820
The only reason Shkannon is thrown around so must is that Ryukushi began to beat people over the head with it in 6.

It's a shaky theory, and the implications of it make for a boring story.

>> No.4321837

>>4321796
Nanjo also did it.

>> No.4321843

>>4321820
Except Shannon's corpse isn't guaranteed to be Kanon, learn to read.

>> No.4321846

>>4321837
Nanjo is hard to trust anyway, he seems like a nice guy but chances are he's just going along with it in hopes the culprit doesn't kill him.

>> No.4321853

>>4321830
A supernatural being might be only able to see through one piece's eyes at a time, unless they are the gamemaster, in which case they know what's going on anyway. They might only be shown certain things by the gamemaster as well.

Also Erika could have seen one thing, tried to say it, and then been told to STFU. She also could have said the Shkannon theory at the end of 5-- the shaky one that barely withstood the red truth.

>> No.4321856

>>4321816
>>"No one can claim Kanon's name but the original person"
Doesn't change anything if Shannon and Kanon were originally the same fucking person.

Goddam you guys really should try a bit more.

>> No.4321857

>>4321837

Well you'd figure Nanjo (and Kanon, assuming Shkanon is real for the sake of argument) would lie.

That still doesn't address why Hideyoshi would lie or how he'd mistake a 'home made corpse' (which would have to be DAMN impressive for her face to fool him too) for a real one.

>> No.4321858

Silly /jp/ Nanjo is actually Nanjo's daughter. Witch Hunt agreed, don't bother them about it.

>> No.4321863

>>4321846
Nanjo lied about Kinzo too. He can't be trusted.

>> No.4321866

>>4321806

So we're to take that as "a corpse that has been identified in general" and not "a corpse that has been identified to the main character/POV character/detective"?

>> No.4321867

>>4321856

Huuuur.

I wasn't saying that's evidence against Shkanon, retard. If anything, I was doing the OPPOSITE. I was saying 'himself' doesn't mean anything.

>> No.4321869

>>4321797
>Kyrie and Rosa are the only one who would be able to do that, they both separated from the group.
They did? Don't remember that.

>> No.4321871

#[Definition check. That "three people" refers to the number of bodies, correct? That means three bodies went in and out, right?] Of course. Three people, that is, three bodies, went in and out of the room. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. I already stated with the red truth that all names refer only to the actual people. Therefore, the names "Erika", "Battler", and "Kanon" refer only to the actual people.


>3 people = 3 bodies

>> No.4321873

>>4321857
In each episode, Beatrice choose one of the parent to be her accomplice, showing him/her the gold.
In episode 1, it was Hideyoshi.

That's why he was cool enough to go in his own room separated from everyone else, fucking his wife and taking a bath.

>> No.4321874

>>4321866
Well she was identified in the presence of Battler, the detective for that EP. Even if he did not see the body, the red truth stretches this to mean that Shannon really died at that time due to the detective's role.

>> No.4321876

>>4321863
I know, just wanted you to add him to the count.

>> No.4321879

>>4321853

Your first sentence begs the question of "why?", considering we've had no hints to that and Battler has always known where his Piece is.

Your second, however, also doesn't make much sense if thought about- why would she not use the Shkanon theory in Episode 6, then, where it would supposedly 'solve everything'?

>> No.4321884

Isn't Kanon identified as dead in the Episode 4 tea party? Despite the fact that Battler doesn't see it and can't find his corpse, Kanon is confirmed to have been killed.

>> No.4321888

>>4321884
9th victim & the first to die in Kyrie group.

>> No.4321890
File: 374 KB, 617x2087, 2-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321890

Beatrice states a theory to Battler that Jessica is the culprit and faked her death while she was trolling him. Of course she wants him to find the truth, but surely she's not going to lay it out that easily. If Battler had suggested it himself (he couldn't as he was refusing to accuse his family), I'm pretty sure she would have shot it down with the red.

I don't think any stated theory so far has been shown to be correct, except for Kinzo being dead. The insulin trick works but it's Erika's suggestion and she's at least as incompetent as Battler.

>> No.4321899

>>4321873

Clues, please.

The mystery cannot be solved with clues not PRESENTED.
And "Rosa and Kyrie moves Shannon's body" doesn't work because A. they're shown in the guest house immediately after, and B. they have no reason to do it (and would have to be in on Shannon = Kanon)

So that's what the Shkanon theory has become now? "Everyone is in on it!"?

I shouldn't even have to say why that is retarded.

>> No.4321901

>>4321879
As for the first sentence, I was just taking a wild stab at why. It doesn't make sense for observers to know exactly what's going on if they're controlling one character, does it? And it's stated that the battlemaster "shows" scenes to their opponent- such as events that happened before the mystery.

Has Battler always known where his piece was?

Second: Because everyone realized Shkannon was a stupid theory, even when Erika had first said it.

>> No.4321903

>>4321899
The red forbids them moving the bodies anyway.
see>>4321815

>> No.4321914

>>4321890
Battler states in this pic that he checked that Jessica was dead.
Considering he was the detective, he can't be wrong.
So Jessica really was dead.

>> No.4321921

>>4321914
At the moment. From insulin overdose.

>> No.4321929

>>4321921
I'm not sure how this would work. Would it wear off with time or would someone have to 'revive' her?

>> No.4321935

>>4321929
I'd assume she'd have to be "revived" by somebody like Nanjo

>> No.4321940

>>4321740
Already an answer, just read before double-posting.

>> No.4321943

>>4321935
She had to be revived by a witch after having a stake in her back.

>> No.4321945

>>4321935
Insulin doesn't work that way. If she stops breathing or goes into a comatose, she's done for. You can't just return and revive someone.

>> No.4321949

>>4321945
Dlanor says a theory like this is viable....

>> No.4321950

>>4321921

Complete bullshit.

"One danger with insulin is insulin overdose. Symptoms of an insulin overdose reflect very low blood sugar levels and include headache, irregular heartbeat, increased heart rate or pulse, sweating, tremor, nausea, increased hunger, and anxiety. It can cause low blood sugar (hypoglycemia)."

"Intentional massive overdoses of insulin are meant to commit suicide."

If she were to somehow come out of an insulin overdose, she'd be INCREDIBLY fucked up, to say the least.

>> No.4321958
File: 153 KB, 367x567, erikachibi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321958

>>4321949

Ironic that someone who claims that "hard to understand scientific and medical explanations can't be used" can't even understand the concept of an overdose.

From this, I have deduced that Ryukishi sucks at research. How's that everyone!?

>> No.4321973

>>4321958
Either bad research or bad understanding of whatever he did research(if we go by his use of logic arguments)

>> No.4321976

>>4321950
Well, that's ok for now. Just because she has a bit of a headache doesn't mean she can't eat sugar packets and go around continuing to kill everyone.

This seems too risky, though.

>> No.4321984

>>4321958

I hope they give Dr. Nanjo some sort of magical girl doctor metaworld character in the next episode to explain some of this bullshit.

>> No.4321985
File: 82 KB, 352x445, 1252176346545.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4321985

>>4321958
<Good>, my piece, my double.

>> No.4322000

NANJO IS ACTUALLY NANJO'S GRANDDAUGHTER

>> No.4322002

>>4320776
> as evidenced by the fact he sees and hears Kinzo.
Here's the tricky thing about that. The scene is indeed narrated from Battler's point of view at the start (evidenced by the narration referring to Kinzo as "Grandfather"), but the instant Kinzo starts speaking, the narration refers to him as "Kinzo". Also note that Battler doesn't get a good look at Kinzo when he's narrating, and that in the anime, Kinzo does not say a word and does not move at all in that scene. However, what that does mean is that Battler did indeed meet someone in Kinzo's room who was not Kinzo or Genji.

And, of course, Battler was a bit drunk at the time, so he could probably get confused about a few things (i.e. seeing what looked like Kinzo from behind, sitting in a chair, and assuming it's a living Kinzo and thus not checking the body), but do note well that absinthe does _not_, as some people seem to think, cause hallucinations.

So yeah, the whole Kinzo-speaking bit is likely due to unreliable 3rd-person narration.

>> No.4322009

>>4321958
see
>>4320454

>> No.4322027

>>4322002
> However, what that does mean is that Battler did indeed meet someone in Kinzo's room who was not Kinzo or Genji.
Does it? Did Battler notice the person sitting across from Kinzo while he was narrating, or while it had a 3rd-person narration?

>> No.4322039
File: 57 KB, 418x423, 1257342888061.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4322039

>>4322009

That says nothing about insulin. Also:

>citing a fetish picture as a reliable source of information

>> No.4322053

>>4322039
Of coarse it says nothing about insulin.

It's an alternate theory that makes more sense.

>LOLGREENTEXT

>>
Reply to thread [?]Don't expect anything heroic. Your post will not be uploaded to the original board.
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Action