/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

So I'm just reading a book about deeper meanings of some Chinese characters and their position in Chinese folklore (A Dictionary of Chinese Symbols by Wolfram Eberhard).

So it appears, that the Chinese have the tale of fox that grows tails the older it gets and starts to change form: in the age of 50 fox transfers into a woman, at the age of 100 into a girl and it gains one tail every 100 years. A thousand year old fox is known as celestial fox. (see: Ran)

Furthermore, the symbol of hare is associated with moon, and hares are considered the species of moon (see: Reisen) as raven is connected to the sun. (see: Utsuho)

Cats are perceived as symbols of bad omen and girls that flirt a lot and dress inappropiately are traditionally regarded as "black cats of family" for bringing bad fortune. (see: Chen)

Ice is perceived as the divider of manhood and womenhood, feminity being under the ice and masculinity on top of it. (see: Cirno the tomboyish girl)

It seems like ZUN is more interested in Chinese than Japanese mythology. I'm genuinely surprised.

[Anonymous No.]

Welcome to forever ago

[Anonymous No.]

That's pretty cool, actually. It's fun reading about some of the deeper meanings behind the touhou characters. It's really easy to write all their design and personalities off as "loljapan," but I've been surprised by the thought put into some of it

For instance, the three-legged raven and how it inspired Utsuho's design

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313170
I thought it was japanese myths zun was ripping off. Didn't he say so himself in one interview?

[Anonymous No.]

A lot of Chinese culture is shared with Japan. Three-legged bird is common to both China and Japan, demon foxes are all over the fucking place, as are cats (especially shapeshifting, man-eating variants) Moon rabbit is very common to Eastern folklore as well.

He seldom used anything not in Japanese mythology, just that Japanese mythology (barring local, obscure myths of course, Mountain of Faith for example entirely went around local deities) is not so much Japanese as much as East Asian.

That being said, I'm still waiting for shiri-me and sazaeoni Touhous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313202

I was under the impression he was just ripping off eastern mythology in general, or at least Chinese in addition to Japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313193
Yeah, I agree, ZUN puts a lot of thought into it.
And even though Koishi is not a part of East Asian mythology, I think it's pretty cool how ZUN made references to Freud, Hartmann, and philosophy in general.

[Anonymous No.]

>Furthermore, the symbol of hare is associated with moon, and hares are considered the species of moon (see: Reisen) as raven is connected to the sun. (see: Utsuho)

This is shared word for word with Japanese folklore.

Indeed, the reason why the Moon is white is because of all the Moonbunnies up there pounding mochi, and Amaterasu (goddess of the sun) has a pet raven named Yatagarasu (aka The Black Sun Utsuho keeps praying to).

>Cats are perceived as symbols of bad omen and girls that flirt a lot and dress inappropiately are traditionally regarded as "black cats of family" for bringing bad fortune. (see: Chen)

Black cats are bad omen everywhere except Egypt.

[Anonymous No.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_rabbit

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313210
Koishi is a satori. ZUN fused that local myth (bear-like creature that reads your thoughts) with psychologists and The Two Fridas.

Actually, speaking of mind-reading, I have a fun story on that. As the tale goes, a tengu was making a pest out of himself by shouting out whatever an unfortunate man thought. The man promptly responded by punching the tengu in the face, and tengu went off saying humans are dangerous because they do things without thinking about them beforehand.

>>4313209
Yeah, that's accurate. I mean, saying shapeshifting foxes are strictly Japanese is like saying vampires are strictly Romanian.

[Anonymous No.]

OP here,
is there anything Japan-exclusive mythology-wise in the series? Something that is not copied from China.

Suika?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313233
That's one badass guy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313243

Yeah, Oni are pretty much japanese only.
Nue is as well.

The general label of "youkai" is, to that.

[Anonymous No.]

not bad.

but one thing ZUN most probably forgot, if he intented to include Chinese Mythology; that is some kind of big, despotic Emperor that is going guro on all those girls.

nearly all of chinese folklore and legends somehow involve some kind of big, bad emperor that is somehow killing ordinary people, which turns them into those mythological creatures becasue of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313243
Miko

[Anonymous No.]

Shinigami are a japanese adaption of the Grim Reaper, who is a bastardized fusion of Cronus (the Greek Titan of Harvest, who wields a tremendous scythe) and the Angel of Death (from Abrahamic myth, takes souls and brings them to God).

Origins!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313233

What mythology are Alice and Tenshi drawn from?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313243
Suika is really generalized ("strong brutish demon with horns" is a widespread concept. ) Besides oni are known in China too.

Truly Japan exclusive ones are Suwako and Kanako (based on local deities), Satori and Koishi, Kisume, Yamame, Parsee, Orin, Kogasa, Murasa, Nue and probably Ichirin, since all of those are rather unique myths (demon cats are common, demon cats that fall from the sky, breathe steam and steal corpses aren't)

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313257
Maybe if our governments elevates the loli-ban, we'll turn into mythological creatures?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313268

Alice is a Witch, servant of Lucifer (Shinki) (European myth).

Tenshi is a Celestial, an enlightened mortal who lives in Nirvana (Buddhism).

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313270
I'd turn in the motherfucking Juggernaut

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313268
Alice is pretty goddamn western.

Tenshi is probably drawn from Buddhist beliefs (as in someone who attained Nirvana and ascended to divinity).

I'm probably wrong though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313277

You're actually right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313268
Alice is a generic magician with an obvious Alice in Wonderland reference. Tenshi is probably an enlightened being from the Buddhist realm Naivasaṃjñānāsaṃjñāyatana (aka Bhava-agra, hence her theme. ) Which is sort of odd because inhabitants of Bhava-agra do not really exist, at least not physically.

>>4313270
>>4313257
Well, excess of emotion is thought to turn you into youkai. So if you are so ronery that you break the laws of physics with your supplies of cortisol, you may one day awaken as the little Touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313268
Alice is of European origin and living dolls are common in East European and Baltic folklore.

See: King Diamond - Puppet Master for quick reference.

[Anonymous No.]

"The name "Team Shanghai Alice" was chosen to fit the overall theme of the Touhou games. "Shanghai", in ZUN's mind, is a multicultural city where the East and the West meet. "Alice" can be a child living in the foreign concessions, but the name Alice also suggests a fairy-tale element. So together, "Shanghai Alice" encompasses the blend of oriental and western aesthetics along with fantasy. As for "Ensemble" (幻樂団, in the team's Japanese name), ZUN originally intended his team to be a musical ensemble so he named his team as such. As a piece of trivia: one of Touhou Project's characters is a magician/puppeteer named Alice, and one of her dolls is called Shanghai."

[Anonymous No.]

Interesting,

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313287
Speaking of living dolls, this guy is my favorite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenglot

It's basically a hairy, living doll that feeds on blood. It doesn't curse, doesn't attack, can't be used in sorcery. It just stands there with an "am I cute, uguu~" expression. Maybe it has the supernatural ability to have its owners feed such an useless critter. Guess it can earn its owner some money via exhibitions ("Behold, this is the jenglot, the Malay doll that does nothing! Amazing! ")

Apparently you can become one. Why would you do that, though?

>They say if a person with great supernatural power meditates in a certain cave, they'll become jenglot.

Actually, you just sit there and do nothing, while someone else feeds you. Is this not ideal life for NEETs? Maybe I should give it a spin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313302
I don't think this is very cute, uguu~

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313294
>As a piece of trivia: one of Touhou Project's characters is a magician/puppeteer named Alice, and one of her dolls is called Shanghai

where did you get that information from? it's all new and refrashing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313314
so moe~

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313319
lol'd but nevertheless this thread is relevant to my interests.

What about Aya?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313332

Aya's a Tengu.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengu

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313199
>That being said, I'm still waiting for shiri-me and sazaeoni Touhous.

screw the ass touhou is a nono, and the other one will be in the first underwater touhou too bad there is no sea in gensokyo

what I want is, a ninja touhou.

[SonnyRay No.]

I want ZUN to make a little brown touhou with this kind of hat ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313314
Well, it is cute compared to other Malay/Pinoy creatures like Childfetus McGutseater or Mr. Manhorse.

>>4313344
Nah, that's not why I want one. See, Sazae-oni steals testicles. Think of a doujin where it's explained there are no males in Gensokyo - Sazae-oni-tan stole the masculinity of all males, so they're all girls now. Of course by masculinity I mean dicks in addition to testicles, so you have futa sazae-oni with a lot of dicks. This is where mass rape begins.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313360
> so you have futa sazae-oni with a lot of dicks. This is where mass rape begins.

what... the... fuck...
at first i tought you ware gonna say that it stills testicles so the people in gensokyo can breed, but this...
also, who was originaly male in your story? mikus and witches can't be males, so thats leave reimu and marisa out, and considering her hobbies alice is a girl too. wriggle, momiji and murasa are surely males, but what about the rest?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313294
>So together, "Shanghai Alice" encompasses the blend of oriental and western aesthetics along with fantasy.

And children, don't forget the children

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313388
>also, who was originaly male in your story?

The usual faceless male horde supplies can be used. That is to say, Yukari messing around/Human village.

And really, Touhou futa isn't unusual at all. That's just an odd take on it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313413
but one person with many dicks IS. i can allready see some faceless loli with a shell- like hat riding the entire SDM at the same time.

and it seems i misunderstood you. i tought the reason there are no males in gensokyo is because -someone- kept stealing their testicles. and finnaly reimu got around to resolve that incident, and everyone got their testicles back.

than again, perhaps reimu was originally a guy too, and she enjoys being a miko and this is why she didn't solve that incident before.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313219
Utsuho should have been sent on the Moon Rocket or to penetrate the capital then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313283
It seems that humans are predisposed into evolving into Tengu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313296
DEMOUR402 Marisa, why are you so Fate-chan?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313540
Well, as the legend goes prideful men become tengu. Incidentally, tengu hate pride.

But that's only one version, and there are dozens of tengu legends.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4313726
So what are the other ways Tengu-ify and youkai-ify humans?