[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/jp/ - Otaku Culture

View post   
  [?]In ghost mode, only threads with non-archived posts will be shown
File: 415 KB, 640x480, UMBRELLAS.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4206293 No.4206293 [Reply] [Original]

TWO UMBRELLAS MOTHERFUCKERS

TWOOOOOOOO

>> No.4206299

And Kinzo was alive there.
So what?

>> No.4206305

Shannon was holding two umbrellas.

That scene is in no way reliable anyways, I mean Erika was back in the mansion.

>> No.4206311

>>4206310

Battler was there.

>> No.4206310

Was this from Battler's perspective?
If not then this scene Doesn't prove anything.

I'm not one of the shkannontrice supporters, but thems the facts.

>> No.4206313

Oh wait, was this scene from episode 5?
Then Battlers perspective is also meaningless.

Unless Erika saw then it proves nothing.

>> No.4206317

The problem I have with EP5 is that we're never allowed to follow Erika's thoughts or see from her perspective.

How are any scenes valid when we don't even know what she observed?

>> No.4206319

>>4206313

Isn't Battler also a detective?

>> No.4206323

>>4206319
No. It's proven that his POV is unreliable since he saw Kinzo.

Erika is the trusted POV. But she's so fail she doesn't even see half the shit that happens.

>> No.4206324

What about the beginning (and technically end) of Episode 5? Everyone, including Shannon and Kanon, as well as Battler and Erika, are in the same room. Whether or not Battler is the detective, Shannon and Kanon are still in the same room while everyone else is with them. If it's Erika, she still saw the both of them in the room.

>> No.4206329

>>4206323

>It's proven that his POV is unreliable since he saw Kinzo.

He himself said that he was probably mistaken.
Besides Dlanor said it in red, didn't she?

>> No.4206333

>>4206319
When he is actually there to detect, yes.
That is the problem in episode 5, Battler wasn't there to make his own moves for the majority of the game, Bernkastel was making them. (who controls Erika)
The majority of episode 5 is being replayed for Battler to see since he sat out, but the moves are not his own.

The detective in this case is Erika.

>> No.4206334

>>4206329
They argued about it at the end of EP 5 during the ura party. Battler's POV was proven unreliable for EP 5.

>> No.4206339

>>4206329
EP 4 red text: No one would mistake Kinzo by sight. Battler couldn't have mistook something for Kinzo by that red.

>> No.4206354

>>4206324
It is a trick played by R07. They are all in the same room, but we don't know what Erika sees.

The scene where Erika is introduced where "everyone is in the same room" is from Battler's perspective which is unreliable.

I forget whose perspective the "suspension" of the game is from, but it isn't Erika's.

>> No.4206356

>>4206339

Kinzo was dead at the beginning of Episode 5. Unless we accept the existence of magic, that red text becomes a contradiction.

>> No.4206370

>>4206356
In EP 4 it was stated Kinzo was always dead by the start of the game. However Beatrice stated that everyone (everyone being the adults + servants) acknowledged Kinzo at the family conference, except no one would mistake him by sight.

Regardless, its proven Battler has no reliable POV in EP 5.

>> No.4206394

>>4206323
>Implying daydreaming makes everything a lie.

>> No.4206404

I can carry two umbrellas.

>> No.4206405

>>4206404
You wouldn't carry two umbrellas.

>> No.4206408

>>4206405
I wouldn't put it past ShKannon

>> No.4206411 [SPOILER] 
File: 138 KB, 849x1200, 1261590801188.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4206411

>umbrellas

SURPRISE!

>> No.4206412

>>4206405

For a servant, it might happen. Maybe Shannon was sheltering two people.

>> No.4206413

>>4206329
It's unreliable because of the red text in EP4 that stated that no one would mistake Kinzo for anyone/anything else. The fact that Battler did shows his view was subjective, which a detective must not have.

>> No.4206419

>>4206354
This has bugged the shit out of me since I heard it.

Shkannon seems pretty set, so I'm not bitching about that, but we're led to believe that supar genious erkia, with her photographic memory, cunning, and fucking Bernkastel as her master, didn't notice one of them was not there? Give me a fucking break.

>> No.4206435

So Erika never notices that the people of the mansion were calling the same person by two names?

>> No.4206440

>>4206412
Sounds like a damn inefficient way of doing things.

>> No.4206443

Maybe they're two really tiny umbrellas, like cocktail umbrellas.

>> No.4206448

>>4206443
Small umbrellas were behind everything.

>> No.4206452

>>4206443
After all, it was never stated in red what kind of umbrellas were those. For all we know, they could be stake throwing devices that were used as shelter from the rain.

>> No.4206455

>>4206435

Shkannon theory states that Shannon cosplays as Kanon, so the characters aren't aware one of them doesn't exist.

>> No.4206456

>>4206419
>>4206435

That isn't the issue.
The problem is we have no idea what she did or did not see. We did not see through her eyes at any point, nor were we allowed to follow her thoughts at all.

We're forced to see most of the story through Battler's eyes which is quite plainly proven to be unreliable.

You can interpret what that means as you will. Most people like to use it as more backing for Shkanon, but I think there are more important questions you can ask, especially regarding her activities at the guesthouse.

>> No.4206458

How do you explain the first twilight of ep3? Both Shannon and Kanon were dead, Shannon died in the parlor, Kanon died in the chapel, both died instantly, both were called "corpses" in red.

>> No.4206459

>>4206408
Hur

>> No.4206460

>>4206448

>small umbrellas

>> No.4206467

>>4206458

Shannon is dead in the beginning of the games and that was her prepared corpse. Kanon crosdresses, and George proposal never happens/he's in on it.

>> No.4206478

>>4206467
Then how do you explain ep2 red stating that Shannon is alive (when Beatrice named all the people present in the servants' room)?
Besides, Kanon couldn't be dead too, he was the 9th victim in ep4. Moreover, it was stated that he died in Jessica's room in ep2 and in the chapel in ep3.

>> No.4206474

>>4206467

>he's in on it.

Can't be. The trip to the aquarium disproves that theory.

Unless...GEORGE IS INTO SHOTA

>> No.4206487

>>4206456
>I think there are more important questions you can ask, especially regarding her activities at the guesthouse.

yandere erika copypasta.txt

>> No.4206489

Battler didn't actually see Kinzo pointing him the location of the gold, does that mean that he knew the place in some way? I mean, he and Erika had already solved the epitaph and all, but Erika didn't seem to know immediately where the entrance to the room was, while Battler was sure.

>> No.4206490

>>4206419
Well since we're not seeing things from her PoV we don't know for sure what she saw.
Something like that may not have been important to her anyway.
From the very start her goal was to prove that Natsuhi had committed the murders, and before they even happened even!
Some may argue that Natsuhi was simply the outcome and that she wasn't specifically targeting her, but that falls apart when you think about the fact that she went around marking windows and doors to get evidence towards a criminal who had yet to even commit the crimes in the first place.

In fact when I think about it, if we are to think about this from a non meta standpoint then there's absolutely no reason to do this, under normal circumstances anyway.
She must have had a reason to do these things, a reason that nobody else saw.

Regardless of whether or not Bernkastel put Erika there, the game world is the game world and the meta world is the meta world.
The game characters do not have the same knowledge as the meta characters.
Even if you throw a new piece in it is still restricted to these rules.

Unless R07 is pulling some serious bullshit here and breaking this rule, which would pretty much prove magic exists, rendering this whole story pointless.

>> No.4206494

*fart*

>> No.4206497

>>4206317
>The problem I have with EP5 is that we're never allowed to follow Erika's thoughts or see from her perspective.

That's the point, I guess. R07 added a new detective, yet we're never able to see anything from her perspective.

I bet R07 must believe he's a genius with his tricks and his Shkanon.

>> No.4206498

>>4206490
>
In fact when I think about it, if we are to think about this from a non meta standpoint then there's absolutely no reason to do this, under normal circumstances anyway.
She must have had a reason to do these things, a reason that nobody else saw.

She is a detective. People die wherever a detective sleeps.

>> No.4206502

Is there a consistent Shkannontrice theory summed up and posted somewhere? It seems that different people explain everything in different ways with Shkannontrice being just the common point.

>> No.4206505

>>4206502
That's the point of Anti-Fantasy.

>> No.4206507

>>4206478
There is no red stating that kanon died in the chapel.

>> No.4206508

>>4206489
It's similar in Eva's case. When she was looking for the entrance, she said something along the lines of, "This way? They're telling me to go this way?"

It's possible that something ---like a landmark--- pops up or changes directlion after triggering the device.

>> No.4206509

>>4206487

If you take the conversation Battler has with Virgilia and Dlanor about using the Knox rules as guidelines instead of absolute rules REALLY literally and throw Knox rule #7 out the door (detective didn't do it) Erika could be the murderer.

But then you're breaking Rule #5 too (no outsiders). Which begs the question: Why is #5 "not included" in the Tips about the Decalogue?

>> No.4206518

>>4206490
see
>>4206487

>> No.4206522

>>4206507
Anyway, it was stated in red that those 5 murders took place in the five rooms, and not outside. Jessica's room was not among those five.

>> No.4206523

>>4206508
Is the word "they" really the word used in that part? This could be a nice clue: why did Eva say "they" and not "it"?

>> No.4206561
File: 246 KB, 633x476, 1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4206561

>>4206523
Yeah, it said 'they'.

>> No.4206559

>>4206498
She is "the detective" in ep5, but being a detective doesn't automagically mean that people will die around you.

I know that this is a murder mystery in which people die and is to be solved by current detective X, but using the excuse "I'm a detective therefore people will die" is asinine and ranges on insanity to go through all that work to catch someone that has yet to even do something.

>> No.4206567

>>4206559
Well.. the rules are that the detective can't commit the crime.

But can the detective egg someone on to kill?

>> No.4206570

>>4206559
Well, that's how she explains her own actions and we are supposed to believe that she is honest.

>> No.4206586

>>4206570
>>4206567
>>4206559

You gotta stop thinking about this in real world terms. This is a game, and Rokkenjima is a game board. Beato made the game a "mystery", therefore, mystery conventions such as Detectives, and Detective's Authority applies.

Was this Beato's intention from the beginning when she made this game to tell Battler the truth? That's arguable, but when Lambda took over, she gave Bern the right to create such a piece and to declare/assume that the story is a mystery.

This is just Ryukishi fucking around and using genre conventions and presenting it as part of the story again.

>> No.4207931

Wait...'''we never see anything from erika POV'' is the response of shkanon fags for ep5?

Dont fuck with me. Erika made a fuss about having everyone alive moving with her in a group and you guys are saying that she simply forgot about shannon/kanon?
Also she talks with them, and even counts the number of persons next to her, more than once.

To discredit that is like discrediting all the ''detective sees the truth'' thing.

>> No.4207973
File: 161 KB, 642x1083, did meido.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4207973

>> No.4207979
File: 83 KB, 1048x538, umineko solved.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4207979

>> No.4208007

Kanon and Shannon are separate people. In fact, they're more than two people; there are 3 Kanons and 5 Shannons in all, all of them identical siblings. Everybody else is a crossdressing Beatrice and a variety of intricate holograms.

>> No.4208009

>>4206559

They found a moutain of gold. Its safe to say she thought things might turn ugly.

>> No.4208018

>>4207931
And she also talks in red, use lots of bullshit mary sue powers and can stay without sleeping without any problems.

>> No.4208019
File: 18 KB, 373x209, Im ok with this.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4208019

>>4207979
Oh, so Shkanon is Kanon, and George is gay for him.

>> No.4208032

>>4208019
No, read it again. The elder sister is a George recently, and it seems to be gay.

Shannon is George, and is gay for Kanon.

>> No.4208039
File: 16 KB, 300x390, tweest.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4208039

>>4208032
WHAT A TWEEST!

>> No.4208073

>>4208018
>stay without sleeping without any problems

She started going kinda crazy there last half of EP5, what with shouting at no one and everything.

>> No.4208387

I thought the answer was fairly simple:

Shkanhdasawaji

>> No.4208436

>>4206567
The rule says that the detective isn't the culprit.

>> No.4208525

>>4208073
Side effect of drowning hypoxia.
Bitches don't know about my delayed oxigen-deprivation sequels.

>>
Reply to thread [?]Don't expect anything heroic. Your post will not be uploaded to the original board.
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Action