/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Shkannon might be possible, but it's not needed No.]

Jessica is Beato, who is committing murders with Kanon and Shannon helping. Things rarely go right, partially because another, adult figure is committing murder as well. Hideyoshi is probable, perhaps Kyrie.

[Milfeulle is my Waifu !iS.Yuri/S. No.]

But Hideyoshi is too fat to kill someone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036151
>implying he doesn't stuff his clothes

[Anonymous No.]

Didn't we think George was fat, before he turned out to be a martial arts expert? Or was that just me.

[Anonymous No.]

Too much holes.
Who could she kill anyone in episode 2 for example?

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>Shkannon may be possible.

No it isn't. It's been proved wrong so many times it's just silly now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036179
Yesterday you failed to prove it wrong and just joined the chorus 'We do not like it because it is stupid'.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036179
Actually you didn't manage to prove it wrong in the last thread.
And 17 persons including Erika, beat that.

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>>4036182

No, I did prove it wrong, and you're stubbornly denying my proof is effective because you're not intelligent to think of another theory.

Why not look up my name on easymodo and give that thread another read?

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>>4036187

Simple.

They only said "there are 17 people", not 17 people only. Don't like that? Here's another

Someone died after the game's start, but before the point of time where Erika said she was the 18th person. Don't like that either?

Standard "Erika never existed" theory here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036192
http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp/thread/4027222
You should read it again yourself, you didn't manage to prove it wrong.

[OP No.]

>>4036192

Look, Namomo, I argued alongside you last night, and I agree with you that it's a stupid theory, and it likely isn't true, and there are a number of alternatives besides.

But you cannot entirely disprove it, and episode 6 seems made to make us think it is true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036192
We do have archives.
Your admission is there.
>>4036202
Plus, 'A character shown never existing' is just as retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036202
Furudo Erika only increases it by one person.
Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games.
Both in red.

And 17 people on the island is a definite statement, no more no less.

[Anonymous No.]

Knox 10th.
And now fuck off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036210

>Plus, 'A character shown never existing' is just as retarded.

You mean like Kinzo? Who has been a fake in all but 3-4 scenes he's been in? *doh hohoho*

While the theory is very much weakened from Red, it wasn't too outlandish at the time. I mean, she was introduced midway through, has obvious hax powers, and everyone reacts to her in a way totally illogical when you try to ignore the Meta-game. Not to mention she seems to come out of bad fanfiction. (auau)

There are reasons to suspect that she doesn't exist, if we ignore the red.

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>>4036211

Those bits of red refer to game 5 where Lambda is the game master. Battler is the game master in ep 6, and might decide that Erika never existed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036222
Yeah, no.
Knox's 10th rule doesn't apply, like it was said in the previous thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036229
Exactly.
It may explain shit but it is just as retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036230
Which is even more stupid.
So she is real in one game and not in another?
For what reason?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036230
So we change rules and circumstances for each game.Terrific.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036174

Faked her death early on in episode 2. Was never said she died in Red.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036235

There is precedence for doing this. In fact, the vast majority of Red Text only refers to one game. any of the *is dead* for example. Beato usually needs to make it clear in the text that "This is true for all games" like she did with Kinzo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036238
When Jessica's corpse was discovered, only Battler, George, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo were in Jessica's room
In red.

Corpse only mean one thing, same in Japanese.

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>>4036233

For Battler to screw over the Meta version of her, obviously

>>4036235

It's possible, afterall, things changed when Lambdadelta were in charge. It stands to reason that things would change when Battler got in charge, too. Knox's 8th supports this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>403624
The setup is always the same though and when it changes, like with Erika, it's stated really clearly.
Doing otherwise would be completely retarded, unfair and a cop-out of epic proportion

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036243

The red has certainly allowed for worse loopholes than that before. At a bare minimum, I can say that Jessica had a corpse prepared, and thus that would be "Jessica's Corpse."

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>>4036253

Say "it's retarded" all you like, I think the same thing about Shkanon. But at least I'm willing to put some effort into discrediting it rather than just saying "it's retarded"

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036255
English and japanese don't work the same way, the "'s" can't be used as a loophole.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>For Battler to screw over the Meta version of her, obviously.

This. Particularly since the Red truth there are 18 people gets through just as well as the Red truth that there are 17 people, it might imply that the game numbering is different from game to game.

It is possible that Battler is fucking over Meta-Erika by screwing with her existence.

We know it's possible for the GM to add characters, so why not take that character away?

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>>4036263

Forgive me if i'm wrong, but I believe the particle "no" could result in a similar loophole.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036253

Namomo is right. There is nothing stopping Battler from doing this, and is hardly a cop out, considering the type of character Erika is.

Hell, Erika could be the poison Ryukushi mentioned that shkannon fans love to point out. Amusing she's actually there will just dick with us.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036262
The effort does not mean much.
Story wise, it's a stupid thing, just like Shkannon.
Who cares what the fuck you try (unsuccessfully) to do.
The proper reasoning for discrediting or supporting theories is being able to explain the events, any other sentiment is useless.

[Anonymous No.]

so with the denial of Erika's existance does that mean that everyone in EP5 and EP6 were imagining things.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036268

Furthermore, debating moonspeak is, for someone who can't speak it, at best unfair and at worst silly and pointless.

Besides, at a bare minimum, Kanon may have betrayed Jessica, died as "Kanon" and became Joshua as most people like to say, and then committed the remaining murders with the help of the others and the potential adult killer. Then the bomb goes off and it's gravy.

No reason for Shkannon.

[Anonymous No.]

客室に、嘉音は存在しない。………もちろん、クローゼット、ベッドルーム
、バスルーム、この全てにおいてである。
初めまして、こんにちは！　探偵ッ、古戸ヱリカと申します！！　招かれざ
る客人ですが、どうか歓迎を！！
我こそは来訪者ッ、　六軒島の１８人目の人間ッ！！
Erika say this in red.

You can't refute it, she did exist on the island.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036273

I agree, to an extent. But it is within our right to say that we don't like the theory, and use others to explain it.

I mean, is the game not based upon discrediting the "Witches Did It" theory, because Battler thinks it's stupid?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036285
Except the end game tips state otherwise.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm still in denial about Erika having breasts. At least I found the source doujinshi on melonbooks, ordered 2 copies today.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036285

Really now. What did I just say about moonspeak?

Also, I just started this topic not to debate Shkannon, but to see if anyone can deny my own theory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036291
You are just being mislead.
In the meta world, belief is the key of the existence.
Battler and Beatrice didn't deny her existence, they just lead her to believe that she didn't exist.

It's like you guys forgot all the previous episodes.

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>>4036273

You're taking this far too seriously.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036301
Her end of the game tips states that she may or may not be in the island because no one knew where she disappeared to after she fell off the pleasure boat. She was written in by revisionists of the Rokkenjinma tale.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036330
Except she stated in red that she was on the island, therefore she count toward the number of people, the 17th riddle that Battler and Beatrice beat her with.
Afterward, who care if it's a fiction or not.

The only reason Erika was defeated was because she couldn't solve the riddle and questioned her own existence, not because "she didn't exist".

[Anonymous No.]

Few things always change each episode, it's possible the number of people also change. Like sometimes Erika drowns and sometimes not.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036327

>Implying you don't take this too seriously.

>Implying I don't take this too seriously.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036339
Except you missed the part where the truth of the future overwrites the truth of the past.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036339
she was a bit stupid, she was welcomed as 17th person, but she was just too weak to continue after losing the 1st twilight by THAT trick

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>>4036349

Possibly, but there's taking it seriously and taking it to the next level.

I consider the Visual Novels to be like "Cutscenes" and this theorying to be the "Playing" of the game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036327
On the contrary. I do not.
I accept all theories and arguments and do not dismiss things just because' I do not like it, it's stupid' like a certain retard or two.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036351
Which once again doesn't change anything in this scenario.
Even if you think everything that happen in episode 6 is a fiction written by Au Au, it doesn't change shit.

She said herself that she found out the truth by reading the letters of Maria for episodes 1 and 2.
And that the other scenarios was written with the truth in mind.

Basically you can still find out the truth by reading the other scenarios, they are completely consitent.

In episode 5 and 6, Erika was added without a doubt, even if she didn't exist in the "real" version, she was still there in these scenarios.
And therefore the red text includes her.

If it doesn't, no red text from episode 3 to 6 is viable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036361
It might have all been just trolling. She may very well be back at the beginning of Ep. VII and counter that.

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>>4036363

You're hurling insults over umineko theories. Now tell me you're not taking it too seriously.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036377
not in meta version, if you execute evryone in the meta world part of the TIPs, her image dissapears and the square with her photo is completely empty, if she had just died she would appear as dead. She negated herself and Bern has no intention of helping her. She's too busy now

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036362

I agree on this point. You can argue that Umineko has more gameplay than any other Visual Novel.

>>4036371
I'll be frank, the Hanyuu Auau character confuses the hell out of me, and I'm kind of ignoring her until a Translation is out and we can clear the Witches Darkness from Episode 6.

For the moment, I would like to continue arguing as though 3/4th of the game isn't fanfiction. And on that basis, Erika might not exist. She is an illusory Piece like Kinzo that thinks and acts like a human piece.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036243
see pic

Also, can someone explain to me how Shkanon is possible with these two red texts.
"The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself!" = Shanon can't be Kanon.
"Kanon was killed in this room." + Battler sees Shannon = Kanon can't be Shanon
?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036438
>"Kanon was killed in this room."
It was never specified WHEN he was killed. Perhaps somebody murdered him before start of the game?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036424
Except her presence was once again stated in red, for both episode 5 and 6.
The fact that she is a fanfiction character or not doesn't change anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036438
Hmm. As much as I hate Shkannon, that's easy to work around.

Jessica died in that room, right? So essentially, the "Kanon" personality died along with her, since she's his reason to exist.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036438

Wait...wait wait wait wait...
WAIT

...Isnt the word Corpse in white?

[Anonymous No.]

So Battler is still the GM next game?

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036461

Disregard that, I read the line above it.

Still, it seems an odd bit of White to include. Then again, Episode 2 as a translation is by far the least edited.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036466

From what I understand, Bern took over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036466
No. Pic related, new GM.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036438
>>4036438
>>4036445
You would know if you read the previous thread.

Remember episode 4? The fight between Beato and Battler.
Battler attack her with a blue text "someone can have several identity", that attack hurt Beato a fucking lot.

Kanon was persona of Shannon from the beginning, she didn't steal this identity from anyone, therefore the red text doesn't apply.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036390
I am saying the circumstances of Umineko are retarded and what happens STORYWISE is stupid.
But if it explains it, a theory is good. Stupid story is one thing, a proper theory is another.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036363

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036472
>>4036471
With Featherine Augustus Aurora deciding things in the back too. This new game will be interesting.
Also this game was good, more in the biginning and end and has lots of relationship development and BeaBato, which I like, it was grimdark, and one game like this was to be expected

[Anonymous No.]

I'd rage like a motherfucker if we have to accept samefag theory or Erika is a fucking spook theory. Both are retarded in their own right, although I begrudgingly learn towards Shkannon with those two, simply because it's less fantastical and has some base in science, rather than some pseudo-philosophical "Really, what IS existing?"

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036445
Ok. Lets assume for a minute that Kanon was killed before the start of the game. That still means that Shanon would have to be impersonating him. But doesn't that violate the first red text?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036474
every VN is STORYWISE stupid. I prefer umineko than the typical mystery story where instead of the LOLmagic, you're just shown before and after they're killed

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036471
>>4036472

Ep. VII will be glorious!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036491
no if it's foreshadowed, and it's been if you look harder, the same with Shkanontrice ifb you wanted, it's been, but it's not clear if it's real or not

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036491
>>4036491
Kanon never existed as his own person, that's why he never leaves any corpse.
When he died in that scene, it was only his persona dying.
Shannon isn't impersonating him because he has always been part of her.

[Anonymous No.]

Ok, explain Kanon's death in episode 4 without the ShKanontrice thing.

[Anonymous No.]

playing with ATLAS, and because of the garbled english, i'm not sure, but did Kyrie just admit to killing Asumu?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036515
was killed and fell into the pit that was opened then but was later closed

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036510
That makes some of the TIPS confusing. Remember, Gohda spoke to Kanon in one of them.

[Dlanor !DIE.UnbK0s No.]

>>4036518


She said she was going to kill her if she hadnt died in...I guess it was an accident?

She also said dying was her fate

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036510
>>4036473
But both Battler and Erika saw Shanon and Kanon standing together in episode 5 so....? I still don't get how it can work.

>>4036504
I meant the red text about someone claiming Kanon's name, not Knox's first. Sorry about the confusion.

[Anonymous No.]

so what does Shkannon contributes to the plot besides making George gay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036522
He wasn't killed. It wasn't a suicide either.
Both in red.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036518
Brace for awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036518
no, she admits and later ange explains she didn't she cursed her to death tough

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036518
She didn't. She was planning to, but Asumu died from another cause. Not sure if it was specified.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036534
>>4036535
>>4036538

oh, ok. thanks!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036529
You can explain every murders with it.

>>4036528
Scene in episode 5 was seen from Battler, an unreliable, POV.
Stated that the only scenes that are reliable are those seen from the detective POV

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036532
But Shannon being killed = Kanon being killed.

Kanon's personality going away = Kanon being killed.

Kanon has been said to have been killed in red before. It just doesn't mesh.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036532

I don't recall that one. Are you sure that one wasn't referring to Episode 1?

And I don't think Kanon died in episode one. See first post in this thread.

All of the Shkannon stuff does is point to Shannon and/or Kanon being Wolves. Never does the theory require them to be the same person.

And, in fact, we do find both corpses in episode 3, and the deaths are confirmed in Red. That alone proves that something is different. *points to unaffiliated adult killer mentioned in first post.*

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036579
did you see Kanon's corpse in ep3, no+he was at the chapel, while the rest of the corpses were inside the main house, that's strange

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036579
>>And, in fact, we do find both corpses in episode 3, and the deaths are confirmed in Red. That alone proves that something is different. *points to unaffiliated adult killer mentioned in first post.*
That theory implies that there's a body double for Shannon, which was never denied, same one that was used in episode 1 in the shed.

And "Kanon" in Beatrice mode was just faking his death, the Kanon and Shannon persona already died by that point.

That's how Nanjo was killed, that's why George jumped on his own from the first floor, that's why Jessica could move even though she was blind.

[Anonymous No.]

> Regarding the unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. Therefore, no body double tricks exist!
>Kanon is dead
>Shannon is dead

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>>4036600

Body doubles WERE denied in ep 3, actually.

[Anonymous No.]

What would be Shkannon motives? Why killing so much people?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036621
and if there was actually NOTHING

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036621
>>4036626
Read harder.
Don't see the loophole?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036641
She didn't say "no body double tricks exist for the unidentified corpses." She just said "no body double tricks exist."

[Anonymous No.]

don't worry guys, umineko is really just a huge acid trip, underneath the island is a huge deposit of secretly disposed hazardous chemicals and the whole cast has been under the effects of its fumes for a long time.

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>>4036641

I see the loophole regarded unidentified/identified corpses.

However, there is no loophole regarding body doubles.

It says "no body double tricks exist". Not "no body double tricks exist regarding the aforementioned unidentified corpses."

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036600

Ok, if the red text can be used to say that both personas died and lived on as Beatrice, and any red text for any human's death is useless. It allows so much that Shkannontrice becomes just one of dozens of new solutions.

I'd almost accept one persona dying, but both? that's just silly.

Jessica lived in the mansion her whole life, 18 years. She knew that place as well as anyone could. If she had the chance, she could escape. The Kanon thing could just be her remembering his spirit.

If it even happened in the first place.

Nanjo could have been killed by any body double. Say, Hideyoshi, who was clearly hiding something in episode 3, and has that odd tip.

I dunno why george jumped down, however. But, following Hideyoshi's secret, it could be related to that, and he felt he needed to escape the guesthouse without anyone knowing.. He went to see shannon's body for comfort as he hid, but was found out and died holding his love.

Furthermore our defining personalities within an DPD seems to be shaky and best, and I question it within the bounds of Knox 2 and 4.

Can you deny my blue truth?!

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036645
"Therefore" implies a conclusion to the first sentence.
It doesn't mean that it can be taken on its own.

[Anonymous No.]

What if there are two Shannons and one Kanon? Or vice versa ( one Shannon, two Kanons)? Possibly violates the 17 people rule, but do corpses count towards that rule?

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>>4036656

That's irrelevent. "therefore, there are no body doubles of the unidentified corpses" or something similar would grant the loophole you're looking for.

Unfortunately, it doesn't say that. It says no body double tricks exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036656
Seperated sentences. Can mean both to the previous sentence and universally.

[Anonymous No.]

About EP2.

When Kanon and Gohda run after Jessica, where is Shannon?

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036669

interestingly enough, I believe she claims to be in Kinzo's study with Genji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036668
Red doesn't work that way.
Otherwise Beatrice would have been clearer.
Like "no body double exist for any mystery" or something like this.
She didn't, that sentence is weird.

[Namomo !!Z3RFFZClUrF No.]

>>4036682

Eva-Beatrice said it, and it only regards ep 3.

Anyway, it says "no body double tricks exist".

As it's in red, it's the truth. You can't say there were body double tricks in ep 3 without completely disregarding that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036682
>Red doesn't work that way.
English does.
Red is just the simbol of truth.

[The 4th Battler No.]

This whole episode is so frustrating in General.

Both my least favorite theory and my favorite theory got massive support. I'm so trolled right now.

[Anonymous No.]

ep6 Gaap is SO cool, + she has a new chorus song for her which sounds like her voice, so it's cool and really helpful, thx God the 'Gaap betrayed Riiche' part was based on the first minute of the game

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036694
身元不明死体について、その身元を全て保証する。即ち、替え玉トリックは
存在しない！

即ち doesn't really mean "therefore" more like "that is to say" or "in resumé"
Anyways, it definitely is something that is used as a conclusion to the first sentence.

Otherwise she would have made thing clearer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036666
At this point the two of you will enter an endless recursion of 'no u' since neither of you will yield on this interpretation of the red.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036721
The sentences are ambiguous on purpose.
That's how you manipulate people with the red.

Anyways if this thing is the only thing people have against Shannon = Kanon, then I have to say it's getting more and more likely that this theory is true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036732
Yeah, I know. Personally I am of the opinion that the two statements should be taken together, but whatever, he's stubborn and won't yield on the point most likely.

[The 4th Battler No.]

Namimi, remember we talked about this a few days ago? Don't use Red Truth ambiguities to argue. They never go anywhere. It is, at best, a stalemate.

[Anonymous No.]

Personally I believe in the ShKanontrice theory, as stupid as it seem, but I would love to see someone destroy it with something really solid.

Would make Umineko more interesting that way, so far nothing though.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036759

It cannot be truly destroyed. Ryukushi likely wants it to be considered. But, at the very least, I have shown pretty conclusively that there is no reason for the games to need to be solved by Shkannon.

Furthermore, there is quite alot of evidence being ignored by almost everyone that seems to hint that there are multiple murdering groups at once. Which just makes Shkannon even more pointless.

[L the 3rd Detective No.]

Okay brosefs lets dance.
Explain how Jessica and George didnt noticed the Shkannon.
And how Battler said that Shannon looked very WOMANLY.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036759
To be honest, I find that theory horrible. Three personalities in one individual?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036759
This. I hate this theory, but the more I look at previous episodes, the more obvious it seems.

Say it isn't so, Ryukishi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036769
There's a main culprit, that's for sure.
Multiple murder group, I don't see it, Rosa is manipulated in episode 2 for sure but otherwise I think it's always the same murderer.

>>4036775
I also think it's horrible, but everything fits if you use it.
I did a fast forward of episode 1 to 4 using this theory, every fucking little things were explainable, no holes anywhere.

I hope to god it's not going to be true, but I didn't see any theory as strong as this one for now.

[L the 3rd Detective No.]

>>4036775
i heard somewhere that there was case where a woman had 20-ish personalities or something like that. The human mind is an awakard thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036796
it's the too good to be true theory, ryu will pull a mega troll to disprove it, I hope, the Shkanon theory is good, but people could see it coming since ep3-4

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036809
R07 said that Umineko was completely solvable by using only the first four episodes though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036817
..from his perspective.

[Anonymous No.]

Let's say both original Shannon and Kanon are long dead and the person who is the current ShKanon is Beatrice with MP disorder. How does that fit?

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036796

Let's put it like this.

There is one person, I'll say Jessica, who is trying to do the Epitaph murders, likely with help from the Meido and Kanon. This is Beato.

Then there is someone who is using guns to commit certain murders. I'll guess Hideyoshi. This is the cause of certain discrepancies in the murders, and explains why the murders don't always follow the epitaph perfectly.

One thing that's interesting is the Siesta Sisters, which seem to represent guns. They are never in alignment with Beato. Not once in 4 games.

There is also certain strange things with the adults, like Rudolph's murderous secret in 1 and 5, Hideyoshi hiding something in 3, as well as the general change of feeling in 3.

It also explains the manifold differences in episode 4.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036809
More like since episode 1. When they were first introduced I was suspicious of them just because they had rhyming names. I am going to be disappointed if Shkannon is true.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036817

Here is a good metaphor for how *solvable* is. It's like a connect the dots puzzle, without any numbers. Now, imagine that the puzzle had some dots that were just unneeded. Some of these Dots help define the picture better, others create wrong pictures, and some just confuse you.

Now imagine that, with every episode, more dots are added and others are taken away.

By episode 4, the right dots were in place to draw the right conclusions. But there are still a fuckton of other dots left over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036840
Well try to explain how it would work from episode 1 onward, could be interesting.
I already said I would love to see someone destroy the ShKanontrice theory.

Personally the way I see episode 3 with this theory:
Remember the stakes? They were put after their death.
In episode 3 paranoia made the adults go against each other, Hideyoshi killed Rudolf and Kyrie killed Hideyoshi.
BUT Shannon in her Beatrice mode was there, she killed Kyrie by picking one of the gun and finished the job with the stakes.

Afterward she lured George to the mansion and killed him.
She then hide herself, killing Nanjo toward the end and escorting Jessica.

For Rosa and Maria's death, I believe that Shannon/Beatrice has nothing to do with it.
Could be Rudolf for all we know.
Anyways suspicious people + weapons isn't a good mix.

[The 4th Battler No.]

also, a problem exists with Shkannon that hasn't been addressed before. A lot of people would need to be in on it. As a matter of course, Genji. Nanjo too, for the bodies.

But Natsuhi and Krauss, sooner or later, would have to wonder why they never see Shannon and Kanon at the same time. Is George gay for Kanon? Is he hiding it too? Then why does he cry for Shannon's body when Kanon is right there? Or does he not notice he's dating a trap?

Gohda could have missed it, but Kumasawa was like a mother to them. She would need to be in on it too.

So...Genji, Nanjo, Natsuhi, Krauss, probably Kinzo, George, Jessica, and Kumasawa would have needed to be in on this for it to work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036880
For episode 4.
The reason it happened differently from the rest was because of the early scene on the beach.
Shannon/Beatrice saw that Battler didn't remember the promise.
Basically it was a huge shock treatment and that's why she appeared in front of him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036883
Think about the relationships of the various characters of the meta world with Beatrice.
Switch Beatrice with Shannon/Kanon and the characters of the normal world and you'll have who know about it, so you have your answer for Genji and Kumasawa.

Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice has to be a girl for one.
So George doesn't know.
Nanjo and Jessica are most likely accomplices.

Krauss and Natsuhi could not know, Krauss isn't in the house often and Natsuhi is pretty self centered and only care about raising Jessica.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036883
Maybe Kanon or Shannon died shortly before the game's start, and their identity was assumed by the other then?

That would also allow their corpse to be used for one of the twilights, for example during the first one Kanon felt guilty that George had proposed to him as Shannon so he put the ring on her corpse.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036927
Red text doesn't allow this for Kanon.
And Knox doesn't allow this for anyone.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036880

Ok, fine. but my memory on some aspects is shaky.

Episode 1, simple enough.

Beato's group kills five of the first twilight, Shannon, getting cold feet(likely knowing that they plan to blow up the island in a murder-suicide) wants to stay with George, and they are forced to kill her.

Second twilight uses normal ShKannon tricks, but with only Kanon. Hideyoshi dies without being able to do anything, and Episode 1 goes as smoothly as possible. Same with 3rd, only Kanon fakes his death. Not Shkannon.

Kanon shows up at the end, shoots Natsuhi. Natsuhi shoots back, but the TIPs show the gun she uses was more ornamental than practical. Hideyoshi may have brought his own gun, which Kanon then takes to create the holes to gouge.

Everyone sees kanon, Jessica laughs and reveals herself as Beato, explode.

End episode 1.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm glad to see that the only good posters left /seacats/ for the fags to ruin and came back to /jp/. Thanks

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036933
sorry, but Knox states that if there's no foreshadowing, and if ep6 proved one thing is that Knox rules aren't that inflexible. Erika clearly states taht it's acceptable for insuline to be used to pretend that a character is dead, and Knox should forbid it, but it doiesn't because there's no LONG explanation.
For what you're saying there has been foreshadowing

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036916
Natsuhi would care if Jessica suddenly has interest in marrying or getting involved with a servant. She already did have a lot on her shoulders in Ep. 5, but that doesn't seem like something she'd overlook.

As for Shannon=Kanon. That'd mean everyone is playing along with it. I can't see Gohda (whose the furthest out of the loop when it came to the Ushiromiya's) getting involved in this.

[Anonymous No.]

The only real problem I have with ShKanontrice is that, while it's been foreshadowed to hell and back and has so many clues for it it would be idiotic to disregard it immediately, I think Ryukishi would have to explain too much for it to not feel like a copout.

The characters would have to discuss why it doesn't break Knox 10 (because I see a lot of people certainly don't process it); that when people meant a person in red they consider "cogito ergo sum" as a valid definition of person ie personalities can be considered their own separate being; why would people in the Ushiromiya house accept the charade (maybe they feel sorry for ShKanontrice? Something happened and it's better to play along?); was Jessica as stupid as to not realize (and her classmates too!) or was she just a lesbian, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036939
>TIPs show the gun she uses was more ornamental than practical. Hideyoshi may have brought his own gun, which Kanon then takes to create the holes to gouge.

Yeah, a sawn off Winchester 1894 is kinda silly, its mostly a cowboy gun. However the presence of a shotgun (Siesta 00) as well as .410 rounds (Siesta .410) are very likely.

[L the 3rd Detective No.]

when explaining murders you must take this into account.
>Because of Battler's sin people die.

Origin of the murders is Battler.
Everything revolves around him.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4036939

Episode 2:

First twilight goes mainly as Shkannon says. Jessica likely has a suit she uses to look like Piece Beato. Explains why Piece Beato has such a strange outfit. Genji might have been in on it, or was convinced by Shannon/Kanon, or an old order from Kinzo.

Rosa is greedy-bitch'd, first twilight happens.

Jessica and Kanon go off to plot, but get into a dispute. To protect herself, She hides the body somewhere, and fakes her death.

Using Kanon's body, Jessica and Shannon kill Kumasawa and Nanjo, confusing Ghoda and perhaps Genji. I don't know the specific trap. Perhaps Kanon really was just dying from his wounds he received in Jessica's room (don't treat these wounds, I'm already dead-style explination for the Red Text), and lashed out at Shannon, acidentally murdering Nanjo and Kumasawa, but was killed by Shannon.

Shanon kills George, Gohda, and perhaps herself, and that's Episode 2.

Again, because Hideyoshi died early, nothing strange happens.

[Anonymous No.]

Another thing about ShKanontrice.
About the fantasy scenes.
Sorry if I'm wrong but in the "past" scenes, the only ones who interact with fantasy characters are Shannon, Kanon (ep 2) and Maria and Ange (ep 4).
These scenes were shown for a reason.

Maria and Ange are shown as delusional, with a pretty sad life and no friend.

But what about Shannon and Kanon?
Why would they see Beatrice?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037010
Well, their forbidden love for George/Jessica I guess, since that's what Beato helps them with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037026
The question is WHY would they see the ghost of some sorceress, and interact with it.
With Ange and Maria, it's understandable.
Maria is a kid who has no friend and is basically always alone.
Ange has a really, really shitty life.

What about Shannon and Kanon?
Why was Shannon so influenced?
What did the mirror breaking scene really meant?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037010
Natsuhi also sees fantasy characters in flashbacks (Beatrice and Cool Grandpa Kinzo). The sign of a delusional mind, after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036147

How do you explain the 17 person limit then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037040
A broken reflection. She splits into different shards.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUU

[L the 3rd Detective No.]

>>4037056
Easy
Someone died before Erika appeared.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037066
Doesn't work that way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037061
You are finally seeing the truth I see.

[L the 3rd Detective No.]

>>4037073
Why not ? the moment of the death is never specified the killings could have happened before or after the actual beginning of the twilights.

[Anonymous No.]

Shkannon is the hidden daughter of Kinzo and Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037099
Beatrice died 18 years ago, they're 16, unless the Fukuin house is lying about they're age, but 2 yo baby=/= newly born one

[The 4th Battler No.]

Episode 3:

Something goes really wrong on the first twilight, and both Shannon and Kanon die, leaving Jessica without allies. Battler's explanation works here, unless my memory is mistaken, as one of them, maybe Kanon, died in an accident while preparing something else in the church

Because of this mistake, Jessica has difficulty moving on her own.

Seeing an opportunity, Hideyoshi, for an unknown reason kills Maria and Rosa. Maybe Eva told him what had happened with the epitaph, and he wants all the gold for his family.

Kyrie realizes somethings up, and a shootout happens. Kyrie and Rudolph are killed. Hideyoshi found the stakes previously, and uses them to make it seem like this was the kind of murder, injuring himself for the cover. Note the locations of the stakes are wrong.

George sees Hideyoshi outside, and leaps out of the window. They fight, his own father turns a gun on him, and he's shot. He locks himself in the Parlor with Shannon, and he dies holding her body. Maybe he learns something, and that's the cause of the numbers.

Then he kills Krauss and Natsuhi, and finally tried to kill nanjo. Jessica is sneaking away, and that distracts him long enough for Nanjo to turn the tables and they both die. Jessica is caught by Eva after she kills Battler, and Eva gets Jessica to admit the truth of everything (like what happens in the end of Episode 3 in the Meta-world) and Eva escapes in time. To protect the honor of her husband and family, Eva takes the secret of what she learns to her grave.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036947
Care to clarify?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037093
It's 17 people, including Erika, when the "game" starts.
And the setup is always the same
And the red is specified for the "events" they refer to.
When Beatrice say "* is dead" it doesn't mean that he is going to die in 50 years.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037116
>And the setup is always the same

This one is impossible. Erika's presence was confirmed in red in Ep. V-VI yet in previous ones she's not there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037136
I of course implied "Erika put aside" with my first sentence.
The game stated it many times.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037111
>Jessica is sneaking away, and that distracts him long enough for Nanjo to turn the tables and they both die.

Wait..what?

[L the 3rd Detective No.]

>>4037116

>It's 17 people, including Erika, when the "game" starts.
Kinzo might not be the only one to die before the game starts.

>And the setup is always the same.
Setup already change once

>And the red is specified for the "events" they refer to.
Nope it refers to the game in question just look at Evatrice's long testament.

>When Beatrice say "* is dead" it doesn't mean that he is going to die in 50 years.
Of course not, it is what happens during the game time (or before looking at kinzo).

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036927
I like this.

[Anonymous No.]

is anyone going to upload the fight scenes to youtube?

[The 4th Battler No.]

Episode 4 is the only one I'm really not sure about. There are too many things I can't really clearify, such as accepting Kinzo, and the magic.

Still, it's easy to see there being a big shootout in the family conference room, Hideyoshi forcing Krauss to lie bout what was going on, Jessica, Kanon, and Shannon turning the tables on him, killing him, but then killing everyone else and forcing Kyrie to talk to Battler, before ending her life. Kanon is killed, but Shannon survives.

Jessica appears as Beato, before or after poisoning Maria, but after killing George with a gun, and is driven to suicide by the things he says. She has Shannon kill her, who then kills herself with the stake found near her body.

I dunno specifics about Kumasawa and Gohda, but there is tons of time for something to happen to them.

[Anonymous No.]

Fucking god, Kanon and Shannon Furniture bullshit finally make sense if you believe in this S/Kanontrice thing.

If neither of them is the original personality, they know that they were created, that's why they don't consider themselves as not humans.
That's why they think they don't have the right to be happy.
They really are furniture in a way because they were made for the original, aka Beatrice, convenience.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4037150

What do you mean, what? Say Hideyoshi was talking to Nanjo before killing him. Jessica starts crawling away, and Hideyoshi is distracted enough that Nanjo can charge him and grab the gun. The wrestle with the gun and die.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037151
When the setup was changed, it was clarified many times in red.
And it was said in red that otherwise, the setting is always the same.

[Anonymous No.]

You know honestly, Shannon and Kanon were told to the readers that they weren't human - but furniture from the very beginning. There you go. 2 Extra slots for humans. :) Discuss.

[Anonymous No.]

Because you're so determined on the Shannon/Kanon theory, you're switching the events around to suit it. Are you doing this because it's easier to figure out instead?

Really, look back at what you posted on Episode 3.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037168
How is Hideyoshi alive? How did Hideyoshi fake his death? Why would Eva lie about her husbands death when she mourned for him?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037179
Clarify it, been a while since I played episode 3.
Is there something that can destroy the Shannon/Kanon thing?
Please make me happy and destroy it throughoutly

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037177
FINALLY ! I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE WITH THAT IN MIND !

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037191
Yeah but no, doesn't work that way.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4037187

You misunderstand. As I said, Hideyoshi died in the finale. Eva learns that Hideyoshi has been doing terrible things, and takes that secret with her.

If I have a few specifics wrong, then I'm sorry. It has been a while since I read episode 3 after all.

[Anonymous No.]

Does OAGT support colorful text?

[Enzo No.]

>>4037187
From what it seems in his theory, Eva was outside of the murders, so when she found Hideyoshi, she sincerly thought he was dead.

At least that's how I see it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037200
>>4037179

Three people were killed in the mansions hallway. Hideyoshi was staked in the chest, Rudolf in the head and Kyrie in the stomach. (Look what the Tips say about Kyrie's corpse.)

Battler asks Ronove to confirm these deaths in red. He refuses to do so, as he cannot speak on Beatrice's behalf. So you can assume one among them is not death due to misdiagnosis or a lie by Nanjo.

[Meushijyo No.]

'There are five, one for each servant.'

This is in regards to the master keys, right? Why would a hypothetical ShKanon need two?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037200
>>4037188


Someone was faking their death in the hallway of the mansion. Battler did not confirm their deaths at that time and was unable to because Ronove refused.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037223
AND SO IT BEGINS

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037223
Maybe "One for each servent" could mean for each personality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037223
Why not?
If Krauss doesn't know about them, he may have given one to each.
A spar key could do wonder in this game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037223
i would say Beato's trolling but that would go against a knox rule.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037229
(Just adding on)
Is the stomach a lethal spot?

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4037245

It says explicitly 5. There's no argument in that one.

So why would Kanon/Shannon have two?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037253
Horribly painful place, and yes it's lethal.

[Meushijyo No.]

>>4037245

That doesn't make sense, either. A master key can be used to open any door in the house. Having two is no better than having one, so there's no reason to carry around two.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037253
Most definitely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037261
You wouldn't die immediately if you were stabbed in the stomach.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4037261

Firefly teaches us, Getting shot in the stomach is bad. You start bleeding acid internally. Shit feels bad. Of course, if done properly, any wound can be faked.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037262
Different personalities, who wear different clothes and recognize themselves as different people.
They probably don't even have the same memories.

That's why they have 2 keys.

[Meushijyo No.]

>>4037253

There are various problems that slowly cause an intensely painful death in that case, I've heard. She could have lived for a while, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037270
You wouldn't be able to do shit though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037249
Unless he is an accomplice or the culprit, he should have noticed THE FUCKING SHAPESHIFTING CREATURE aka Shkannon. Because thats his house.
But of course no one is pure in this game.

[The 4th Battler No.]

>>4037274

That is true. It's not an instant death, but a slow and painful one. That said, I do find it hard to believe that someone with a stomach wound would be able to hide the heavy breathing involved with enduring that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037283
Krauss is self centered and rarely in his house.
And Shannon/Kanon was sponsored by Kinzo.
Remember how they say that are Kinzo's servants rather than them.

[Meushijyo No.]

>>4037273

Why would there be 'a key for each servant' in the first place, if they had only one body?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037278

People with these injuries can still move. Seriously, re-read Episode 3 before coming up with these theories. It really sounds like you're just making them convenient for something else. There's a reason Ange has access to the only surviving stake, Mammon, in Episode 4.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037294
Same problem that 17 vs 18 people.
Shannon and Kanon think they are different persons, therefore they are counted as 2 servants rather than 1.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037299
Faking being death while stabbed in the fucking stomach isn't really something plausible though.

[Anonymous No.]

is the person who was streaming EP6 going to stream again today?

[Meushijyo No.]

Also, if ShKanon were true, every single adult would have to know about it. So they could lie about finding the corpses in separate places in Ep 3.

Additionally, Virgilia, who was brought in to help Battler, would have to have lied during her reconstruction of the crime scene in that episode. Although, Knox rule 2 denies using that as evidence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037315
No need to even fake it. Nanjo is the one doing the diagnosis. He can lie or make a mistake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037322
Doesn't have to lie.
Body double + faking death can do wonder.
Which explain why Kumasawa and Genji died in the first twilight in this episode.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037322
For the last time, of course they were two separate people at one time but during the conference there's just one of them. The other proabably died earlier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037318
already did I think

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037325
You mean intentionally

[Meushijyo No.]

>>4037308

No, I mean, why would an extra key for that personality exist in the first place? It's not like they'd make another key for the same body...

On a side note, where was Kanon's key found in Episode 2? Was it on Jessica's corpse?

[Falcon !2Rbw7EnERg No.]

I like the Shkannon theory, it explains pretty well everything.
My problem is how can a petite ma servant completely transform into a fully grown woman (Tits, hips , ass) or vice versa. Without anyone noticing make up, props etc

[Falcon !2Rbw7EnERg No.]

>>4037348
petite male* dem typos

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037347

IIRC, it wasn't found.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037347
Other servants exist you know, like one called Mannon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037348
PAD

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037339
You remember what Virgilia or Beato said when Maria and Rosa's corpses were found in the garden?

"If Nanjo's diagnosis is correct, Maria was strangled and Rosa was impaled on the fence." *roughly*
>The cause of death was as Nanjo diagnosed

It's been already explained that he can be an accomplice or make a mistake.

[Anonymous No.]

Shannon and Kanon telling the people on the island they were furniture is the biggest clue that they aren't human.
Evatrice states in red that this game is only within the humans; therefore Shannon and Kanon are not related to ANY crime.
However, Genji Gohda and Kumasawa (Who we have yet to learn alot about) Are not furniture - but actual servants.

From what we know about 'furniture'. Ronove is regarded as Beatrice's 'head' furniture. And so are all the stakes and every other demon. Meaning if we regard Shannon and Kanon as actually being 'fantasy' characters from the very beginning, there are no complications.

This leaves room for the Shkannon theory because Shkannon can be somebody else we don't know about.

What does /jp/ think?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037384

Genji calls himself furniture, right? Shannon, on the other hand, now considers herself human.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037384

Unfortinatly, even ignoring how bad a twist that would be, Knox's 1st lawl takes away the implications about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037384
They count as humans, otherwise, there wouldn't be
'No more than 17 humans exist on this island!!'

The person that killed Nanjo was human, as Eva stated.

[Meushijyo No.]

>>4037405

The boat owner and Beatrice can both be used, actually.

[Falcon !2Rbw7EnERg No.]

>'No more than 17 humans exist on this island!!'
>17 or less
>Berntrollface.jpg

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037406
That's exactly it. There is 1 more human we don't know about.
As the other poster said, Shannon now considers herself a human, meaning it's 16 humans, instead of 15 (From 17)
Kanon is still 'furniture' but I guess Genji does consider himself furniture as well, bringing it back to 15...?

[Anonymous No.]

RYU SO TRIXXY!!!!!111

[Meushijyo No.]

>>4037431

Therefore, Beatrice existed on the island from the start of the game. This also explains Piece-Beato from episodes 1, 2, and 4.

Mystery solved.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037447
>>4037431
Are you guys even trying?
Well that's to expect from RP fags I guess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037497
because its on the same level of silliness as BOMBS, PONIES and Double personality trap ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037503
Actually it isn't.
Bomb, double personality have a lot backing them off.
Even pony has some shit behind it.

What these RP faggots are saying are shit that have been denied a long time before.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037503
Triple personality actually.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037497

Sounds worse. Can you imagine sifting through or memorizing the contents of a folder full of sprites for almost every post? If you want to be identified, nothing is stopping you from using the name field.

[Meushijyo No.]

>>4037497
>>4037512

It was denied? When?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037529
Except for the fact that it's fucking stupid, remember:
>>Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games.
>>In other words, the number of people in this parlor now is equal to the total number of people on this island.

Put 2 and 2 together.

[Meta-Battler No.]

Sounds like the discussion is getting derailed so lets go back to topic.
What was Shkannon's motive ? Remenber that it must be connected to Battler somehow.

[Anonymous No.]

The problem with this whole "Umineko is solvable by the 4th Ep." thing is there are few crazy theories that would actually work, but they feel really cheap. Beatrice=bomb, Pony, split personalities and furniture not counting as humans are all really cheap.

I think we should drop those theories for now and concentrate on finding better ones instead of arguing which one of them is better.

[Anonymous No.]

GO BACK TO /a/ RPFAGS, no one wants you here

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037552
Yeah Battler said that they were all there and the number its pretty much confirmed. Now the identity of all of them is not certain, remenber that Erika didnt said anything on that matter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037559
Why is everyone assuming that just because Shannon and Kanon likely share a body, that means they must be the murderers?

My problem with Shkannon isn't their "motive for murder", but "reason for existing". It stinks of author interference to make the murder mystery more complex, not something logical with the characterization shown in previous games. So many people would have had to have known, and treated this crossdressing weirdo like two separate people--and then HIDDEN this fact when the murders started happening. A bunch of people knew that Shannon and Kanon shared a body, yet mourned over Shannon when Kanon was still walking around and didn't find it suspicious in the slightest?

[Meushijyo No.]

>>4037552

...you realize that you didn't actually say anything with that post, right? The first part makes no difference, and you don't know how many people were in the parlor.

>>4037559

I'd guess a broken promise of some kind...?

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037574
Pony doesn't work.
Bomb is basically confirmed but can't be used by itself.
Furniture not counted as human is stupid and has already been proved fake.

So yeah, only theory I saw that can solve everything is Shannon = Kanon = Beatrice for now, no other "crazy" theory works as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037576
Should I go create a Cirno dump thread instead? Would that be more /jp/ related.

Bump for good discussion, since /a/ imagebombs and /seacats/ is down to less than 5 people playing dwarf fortress.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037589
They were all here, that's what is confirmed, that's all.
Therefore mysterious person x can't exist.

[Anonymous No.]

By the end of Umineko the final Red will state that there are only 16 people on the island.

I have no idea how, but this will surely happen.

[Meushijyo No.]

>>4037596

How many people were in the parlor? Who were those people? If we say that Erika's perspective can't be trusted, you don't know either of those answers.

Otherwise, ShKanon is denied already, since she saw the two of them together.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037595
As if anything is wrong Dwarf Fortress!

But I'm actually busy cleaning sprites, you see.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037596
Only the number is confirmed.
Mysterious person X stands

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037648

Knox will anally violate you for saying that.

Foreshadowing and clues are needed. At the very least, don't hide him behind "Mysterious person X". Bring up a theory as to who he is, and a name.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037623
>I'd like this kind of discussion in /seacats/, actually.

It's too bad all the good posters on your board have left, most recently, and all you have left is a nice little community that just so happens to use umineko sprites. You and Bern and the only 2 people left that use the board for its intended purposes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037670
why ?
im not saying he is a body double nor im saying he is the culprit, im just saying he is there.
Cant tell you the name because X only appear in phone calls so far.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037623
Only trust the red.
The red states that the number of people in the parlor is equal to the number of people on the island.
That's all.

[Meushijyo No.]

>>4037670

Beatrice. She appeared in three other episodes, there was a stupidly large amount of foreshadowing, and she can be considered introduced in the first episode. Letters with the name 'Beatrice' were sent to the family a number of times. The servants often said the murders were done by Beatrice.

[Meushijyo No.]

>>4037693

We only lost Piece-Battler, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4036147
Only Erika's view can be trusted.
She's detective.
Unless you want Knox to rape you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037590
I'll be VERY disappointed if this is true. I got "Kanon is really a girl" vibes in Ep. I and "Shanon=Kanon" vibes in Ep. II. Same with bomb. If that's really true mystery in Umineko was too easy.

But then again it may all be just Ryu's trolling.

[Anonymous No.]

>>4037384
from your theory, i believe shannon wants to become "Sayo" again, but kanon stubbornly refers himself as furniture.
That fits the "17 on island' red that battler gave.