/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Rosa will end up being the main antagonist of ep 5,

discuss

[Anonymous No.]

Rosa is the protagonist of the entire fucking story, do you forget how she callously wiped out like five goat heads, while carrying a gold ingot in one hand?

SHE KILLED ONE WITH A FOUNTAIN PEN.

[Anonymous No.]

Rosa's had enough screen time. Focus on the other siblings.

[Anonymous No.]

Fuck Rosa.
Shitty mom.
Shitty person.
（╬ಠ益ಠ)

[Anonymous No.]

Natsuhi will have most of the screentime. This Ep will be about finding the true antagonist who is not Rosa, so she'll die soon this time

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958354
Best scene in the entire game.

[Trollkastel !!YSTYW7Om7uL No.]

I like Rosa.

[Anonymous No.]

Rudolf will be the main antagonist when he threatens to send Battler to his alma mater! Oh no!

[Anonymous No.]

Needs more Rudolf. Also, Gohda hasn't done shit. Change that.

[Anonymous No.]

I think Hideyoshi needs to get a highlight - so far he's done very little but die like a faggoth

[Anonymous No.]

Well, thus far the antagonists have been in Ep1: Beatrice. Sorta. Natsuhi got alot of screen time, although it's hard to really pin the crimes directly on her. Ep2: Rosa. Although we actually didn't really learn as much about her in this one as we did in 4. Ep3: Eva. Derp. Kyrie also got some important exposition. Ep4: Kinzo. Sorta. Krauss and Kyrie got some screen time. And Ange obviously.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that Umineko's 'answer arcs' are NOT going to be just flipped versions of the previous question arcs. For Episode 5, I'm gonna predict that we're gonna see some Hideyoshi action, or else we'll see Rudolph survive a while AND actually learn something about him. Maybe some more Krauss camera time as well.

I'm only going by family members here, as the servants don't seem likely to be put in a major role in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958401

Yeah, since we're going to learn more about Battler mom and his family, I guess Rudolf will have a lot of screentime in ep5

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958390
>>Magical Goha Chef

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958401

I read that as "Rudolph survive a whale", made me lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958399
He is responsible for the first Twilight in Ep1, and Kanon is for murdering him at the second

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958412
I never got this one - what does it refer to? He seemed like the most normalestic character in all the episodes thus far

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958441
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sKv0LqgoXU
This song made him so popular

[CurryButt !CIELBE/jzM No.]

>>2958441
It refers to pissing in fire for magical breeding power.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958427
Close but no cigar. Kanon killed EVERYONE in Episode 1. Nanjo or one of the other servants might have helped with the first twilight. Kanon faked his death (re-read the red Beatrice uses in Ep4 about his 'death' this game) and went on to kill off Nanjo and the rest of the servants, then left a letter for Natsuhi that got her so riled she ran out to confront him.

What's funny is that Natsuhi seems to have destroyed that letter herself, or at least she didn't let anyone else see it. And it got her pretty damn off the hook, since she charged off without regard to her own safety instead of herding everyone back into Kinzo's room.

I bet his letter said that Jessica was his accomplice, and had been the one to plan the crimes. Natsuhi couldn't accept this, and took the letter with her when she went to confront him, but he shot first.

[Anonymous No.]

What about Nanjo, there must be something about Nanjo.

THERE MUST BE.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958509

He has diabeetus.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958480
No, they fired at the same time, that's why Battler heard only one gunshot. Except Natsuhi missed, read the related TIP about the gun

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958450
These lyrics are awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958525
Hmmm, allright. So Natsuhi is just a bad shot. That chronic headache probably doesn't help much.

And on an interesting point, whoever shot Natsuhi (Kanon) head her dead between the eyes. Sound familiar? Everyone in Episode 4 was gunned down with some frighteningly good marksmanship as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958450
Great, after seeing the lyrics that song is now ruined for me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958546
Except the first twilight was actually carried out with a shotgun instead of a rifle. Ep4 is a variant of both gun, so there are at least two murderers rampaging everywhere. Where did the more powerful gun go in the other games? It was usually used only for the first Twilight

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958543
>>2958561
You know these are not the actual lyrics right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958570
Well, you can't necessarily trust Nanjo's diagnosis, but regarding the first twilight, he stated that the damage to their faces was done post-mortem. And Battler's impression was that they were 'plowed' with some sort of tool.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958577
It doesn't matter, I won't be able to unhear them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958598
Meta-Battler recognizes and acknowledges that the face smashing in episodes 1 and 4 are the same.

[Anonymous No.]

Shanon and Kanon

you heard it from me first

Notice how none of them appear at the same time in front of battler? also notice how they have a near cloned appearance?

Shanon and Kanon are one individual, Thus allowing 2 collaborators.
Shannon/Kanon + Mystery subject not yet introduced in the 17 person island, which helps explain the events more

also Battlers long survival plays a key role, most likely the next collaborator is Battler (real)

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958657
>>2958598
Remember Jessica's last message? It's just as likely that the victims of episode 4 were mutilated post-mortem as the ones in episode 1.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958680

I agree with this, actually. I watched the first two episodes of the anime before playing the games, and my first impression was that they were the same person.

[Anonymous No.]

Chapter 9 of the manga has been released.

I remember Ryukishi saying some things about it, like how he thought some of the lines in it almost seemed like spoilers, so I've been keeping an eye on it.

Eva theorizes the existence of a 'mastermind' controlling the servants and coordinating the murders. I don't recall her saying that in the game. I wonder if this is one of those lines Ryu was talking about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958680

>you heard it from me first

No I didn't, I've seen that theory everywhere.

No. They've found Shannons with half her face knocked off, so it's identifiable, and Kanon is fine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958680
>Shannon=Kanon
>you heard it from me first

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958700
Ah, I should clarify- Ryukishi07 said some of the lines in the manga in general seemed like spoilers, not just chapter 9 in particular.

Another note that caught my eye- in a previous chapter, Kinzo called Natsuhi's marrying into the Ushiromiya family an 'inescapable fate'. And one of the meanings of the magic circle used in the first twilight is to escape from 'an inescapable fate'. Or from mental bonds.

Funny how Natsuhi stops complaining about her headache once Krauss is dead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958697

We must also decipher who Beatrice really is

Jessica loves Kanon, as does george to shannon

Jessica is Beatrice, she takes a dressed up form, obviously she has access to outfits/etc due to the fact that she lived in the mansion her entire life and has seen the portrait enough to imitate her

Jessica played with maria since she was little, pretending to be beatrice the entire time. Jessica to be united with Kanon, had a motive to kill off the family on the island

Jessica also might have had contact with the real battler, and made a plan as well

Either way, i believe

Jessica + Kanon + Real Battler are the true culprits in this issue.
Reasons: Gold possibility, marraige, revenge (battler), deep past issues, kinzo guidance + Manipulation, etc

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958700
She does say that in the game. After giving her little speech about how only the servants could have done it, she goes on to ask Battler the meaning of the word Servant. "One who serves as another's arms and legs."

I personally think she's the one controlling them, but since the reason they listen to her isn't obvious, she sends suspicion to Natsuhi by making the servants mere accomplices.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958717
Battler was not able to see her corpse, and Beato's red text from Ep4 only applies for the fully unidentifiable bodies

[Anonymous No.]

/jp/ lets flip over the chessboard and think about this

We need a culprit list, and a motive list. Also we need to have collaboration possibilities, evidence, hidden character, etc

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958750

Then WHO WAS SIXTH BODY?

Also, that would mean Hideyoshi is an accomplice, as he said it was Shannon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958680
I'm 99% sure the real Battler is Amakusa.
Not only does his name sound like an alias, but several other things about him are suspect and the manner in which he's presented just screams "I'm suspicious and possibly a villain."

For one, his introduction. Remember how he claimed that Okonogi hired him to wait in the underground garage? He only says this AFTER Ange tells him about it. For me, it came off as a well-executed bluff.

Another thing about him that makes me suspicious is a fact we know about the real Battler. The real Battler liked to say random things in English (pic related) and out of the characters we've been presented with, the only ones who do this are Ange and Amakusa.

Then, there's various other small things, like his physical similarity to Kyrie and how the pin# could be a coded message for his name - 07/15 (the day both Battlers were born) and 1+1+2+9 = 13.

That said, I'm not sure that he's the mastermind, for various reasons. For one, how old is he?

[Anonymous No.]

I can't be the least obvious person, because that'd be pulling the same trick as they did in Higurashi. At the same time, the most obvious person can't be the killer because it'd be too easy, but at the same time they could be doing that just because no one would expect it. Either way, I think that's just a small possibility.

So, I'm going to say the mastermind has to be someone whose intentions are unclear, rather than someone who looks completely innocent or completely guilty. With this in mind, I think the *least* likely people are Eva, Krauss, Kinzo, Kanon, Rosa, and Maria. The most likely are George, Battler, Jessica, Rudolph, and Kyrie.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958766
We don't even know that its a body since only two people see it directly. There could be no corpse there to begin with (or if we take the Anime's presentation of an arm), Goldsmith's corpse or just Shannon laying there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958770

I think you have a point about this...

The question, who is the fake Battler? whats the purpose for him being fake?
Is it also a large family secret?

Im just confused towards Kyries fight scene and etc, when she mentioned how she couldnt give birth... Does this mean she had to accept the other person, and abandon her child when it was born instead?

Also just pointing out, umineko doesnt really give character sprites to unimportant characters... so he will play a bigger part

Also what was his age in ep 4?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958770
How old do you think he is? He couldn't have been 12 years older than Ange. No fucking way he's her half-brother.

[Anonymous No.]

Fucking wolf and sheep puzzle coming in too.....

Why is beato so intense on making Battler find the answer to the game? She's always incredibly hard on him, but the fact is, she cannot give him the truth and she is forced to make him find the real incident behind the murders

Im just saying, Beato is trapped under Bern's and Etc's... game and she needs to be free

Also Battler x Beato ending even remotely possible?

[Anonymous No.]

Battler isn't fake.

Either Kyrie is his birth mother, or Asumu had a caesarian section.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958399
Wait for Episode 3's answer arc.
Hideyoshi is Eva's accomplice in that episode.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958786
George, Jessica and Battler have strong alibis in several episodes and Rudolf almost always dies at the beginning. In fact, the episode where Rudolf/Kyrie are likely the most active (Ep. 3) is also one of the most atypical, given how poorly the stakings are done and how Eva survives.

To clarify, I'm pretty sure that Rudolf and Kyrie set up the first twilight of Ep. 3 and then came up with the plan to go to the mansion after Rosa/Maria died because they suspected Eva/Hideyoshi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958815

in the 4th game its proven battler is not the real Battler...
sorry to spoil it for you man...

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958807
the only end, after everything is over battler encounters a woman just like beato in the street, and the two of them stare at each other and laugh.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958823

That's not true. That theory was laid out in blue.

Furthermore, Battler is the descendant of Kinzo. It was said so in red.

So, we either look at Kyrie, or a C-section.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958835
Battler is a clone.

[Anonymous No.]

Kyrie and Rudolph made Battler out of small bombs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958828

fucking reminded me of the bleach movie ending...

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958835

Kinzo fucked Kyrie

[Anonymous No.]

>>Meta-Battler recognizes and acknowledges that the face smashing in episodes 1 and 4 are the same.

It's been a while, so I might have forgotten something important, but are you sure he wasn't just referring to how there being enough of the victims' faces to positively identify them in the same way they could identify Shannon and Krauss in Episode 1?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958842

Prove it.

inb4 devils proof, this isn't meta-world.

[Anonymous No.]

Just picked up Umineko recently. Just did the episode 2 teat party.

All I can say is, cow tits look delicious.

[Anonymous No.]

Going to fucking RAGE if Amakusa is real Battler, Tsukihime did this shit already.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958794
>How old do you think he is? He couldn't have been 12 years older than Ange. No fucking way he's her half-brother.

You can't take the character sprite as an indication of age. Natushi, Kyrie and Eva are likely in their 40s or 50s and look like women in their late 20s, early 30s. Add this to the fact that Amakusa's been a bodyguard for multiple VIPs, a mercenary, a member of the JSDF and French Foreign Legion AND that he's received the training to do all these things, it's not implausible that he's 12 years older than Ange. At the very least, we know that he's not a teenager.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958855
devil's proof :D

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958864

Hempels Raven

[Anonymous No.]

>>Why is beato so intense on making Battler find the answer to the game? She's always incredibly hard on him, but the fact is, she cannot give him the truth and she is forced to make him find the real incident behind the murders

A woman forcing a man who did something wrong to figure out what he did wrong on his own rather than simply tell him and make everything easier on everyone involved? Like that's never happened before.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958857

Go finish it up to episode 4, don't enter an Umineko thread until you do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958867
Schrödinger's cat box

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958853
He recognizes that the method used to do it is the same. I had a discussion with another anon before who attempted to argue that the smashings in episode 1 and episode 4 aren't the work of the same killer (I'm operating under the assumption that each MO belongs to a different killer), which doesn't work for several reasons. If you'd like me to go into greater depth, I can.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958882

Doesn't work for this particular theory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958884
Please do.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm not sure why people are so hostile to the idea that another Battler exists. Suit-Beatrice all but confirms it in episode 4 and the Battler in Shannon's memory is pretty obviously someone else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958893
Well, here's with what I came up with a while ago:

>Episode 4 gave us a pretty big hint in terms of identifying the various killers, assuming that each method of killing belongs to one person.

>For example, the face smasher, by process of elimination would be either George, Maria, or Kanon since in assessing both episodes 1 and 4 together, these 3 are the only possible suspects, unless we include Culprit X. The reason for this is that if we consider the people who didn't have their faces smashed in Episode 4 and remove those who suffered that fate in episode 1, then these 3 are left.

>Since both Maria and George have strong alibis, while Kanon likely faked his death, Kanon is almost certainly the smasher.

>And if we work off of this premise, we might be able to determine what actually happened in episode 4, since we know for certain when Kanon actually died.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958904

Did death by accident for Kanon get denied in red by Beato in ep 4?
He could of killed everyone, with an accomplice, and then died, perhaps climbing up the well, finding it locked and then falling down to his death.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958871

<<< Me reading your post

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958895

Because it isn't true. You'll see.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958895
Because between the whole "Mion is Shion/Shion is Mion" thing in Higurashi and Shiki/SHIKI in Tsukihime, the whole name/identify switcheroo twist has become stale, and for a series that's supposed to be trying to SURPRISE the players, it would be a seriously shitty attempt at a plot-twist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958919
Then I'd like to hear you explain away the examples I gave above.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958912
He died before "everyone in Krauss's group" and was definitely the 9th to die. Unless he managed to kill people after his death, someone else killed Krauss, Kyrie, Shannon, and Nanjo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958927
You're speaking as though you think that literary device was invented by Tsukihime/Umineko.

Newsflash: every idea has been used before by someone else - the idea is less important than how its presented and executed, any actual writer could tell you this. Goethe has a quote about it, I think.

[Anonymous No.]

>Also Battler x Beato ending even remotely possible?

Why would that be possible? She screws mindfucks, tortures and kills him all the time. Have you forgotten ep3 or 2.
She is a horrible monster who kills people out of joy. She is fucking hitler.
It is not remotely possible that Battler would ever feel love or whatever for her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958895
>Battler in Shannon's memory is pretty obviously someone else.
Where the fuck do you get that idea from? He obviously remembers doing all that stuff after being reminded, as evidenced by his embarassment, and he even still does it occasionally. Same fucking person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958932

Because she explains it in blue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958942
Nothing we've seen Beato do has been of her own free will. She's following 34's orders. We have no idea what the real Beato is like.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958942

And I'm sure women never fall in love with men on death row, either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958953
those are the rejects, the ones who no one wants to take... like us.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958942
Protip: Well, Beatrice as seen in the meta-world is simply a representation of the real world killer's actual motivation, which isn't money or revenge, but making the world believe that a witch killed 18 people in an occult ritual. It's much like Takano's resolution to become a god.

Beatrice =/= the killer, just the killer's objective. Remember that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958949

Even when someone is serving someone else, they still retain their personality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958967
continued: This is also why the culprit isn't necessarily a woman.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958964

Well, when you're stuck in a world with only one other women (of battlers type), who else can you take?

Although, if I were him, I would go for Lucifer, or maybe Mammon. Actually, most of the stakes of purgatory are worth going for, except Belphegor.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958979

>Revive Ange
>wincest

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958945
Are you sure he remembers? Any time he deals with something from 6 years ago, his memory blacks out. Refer to this picture and also the one in >>2958770.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958904
A couple problems with that idea, though.

First of all, why would a given killer have "dibs" on any particular method of killing? Even if the head smashings in the first and forth episodes were caused by the same weapon, why would that necessarily mean the weapon was being used by the exact same person?

You don't think it's possible that whoever shot Natsuhi at the end of Episode 1 could be different from whoever shot George and/or Kirie in Episode 4?

Besides that, even if you do have the same person using the same weapon, why are there so many differences between the episodes? Why are there only two victims with partially recognizable faces in Episode 1, while every victim has enough of their face left to be identifiable in Episode 4? Why were the bodies moved to the shed in one episode, but left where they lay in the other? Why did one episode have just six people killed, while the other had six killed, five apparently taken hostage, and another two who managed to escape?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958991

He remembers Maria. He says he remembers playing together with her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959004
Show me a screen if you could. Also, Maria not only doesn't remember who he is, but thinks he's Rudolf's brother.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958996

>Besides that, even if you do have the same person using the same weapon, why are there so many differences between the episodes? Why are there only two victims with partially recognizable faces in Episode 1, while every victim has enough of their face left to be identifiable in Episode 4? Why were the bodies moved to the shed in one episode, but left where they lay in the other? Why did one episode have just six people killed, while the other had six killed, five apparently taken hostage, and another two who managed to escape?

Because otherwise you end up with Endless Eight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959006

I can't be arsed ctrling through. Take my word for it. He says he remembers Maria, but isn't surprised that she doesn't remember him as she was 3 years old at the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958359
Fuck you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958941
No, I'm speaking as if that literary device has already been used once already by the author, and once before in a work he has taken a bit of inspiration from.

It doesn't make a goddamn lick of difference how you present or execute an idea if you've already presented and executed it once before, regardless of how you try to dress it up or try to spin it. An audience can only see a trick done so many times before it loses any impact it may have once had.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958996
>First of all, why would a given killer have "dibs" on any particular method of killing?

Because it would be nearly impossible to pinpoint any murderers if we assume that there aren't consistent MOs, wheras if we assume that there are consistent MOs, we certain things in perspective.

An example I gave before: we only see stranglings begin to happen after Eva finds the gold.

>Even if the head smashings in the first and forth episodes were caused by the same weapon, why would that necessarily mean the weapon was being used by the exact same person?

It doesn't, but it's not an implausible assumption. The killer in that case either a.) focused on getting headshots rather than just killing the victim or b.) wasted ammunition and potentially alerted others to his presence by blowing off faces after his victims were dead.

If anything, it's more implausible to think that two people, given the same weapon, would behave in exactly the same way.

[Anonymous No.]

This whole 'fake Battler' shit is so totally off base I have trouble taking it seriously. Battler is far too familiar with everyone to have just been somehow hypnotized to think he was the real Battler. And everyone in the family, and the servants, all recognized Battler on sight, with the exceptions of Maria, who was 3, and Kanon and Gohda, who were hired after he left the family. Granted, everyone is surprised by how much he's grown etc, but noone failed to recognize him on sight.

And his memories of 6 years ago are only hazy regarding the irrelevant things he said back then. He still tosses out a quote or two in English, but as he said, he's making an effort to say stupid things less often. He remembers the circumstances surrounding Asumu's death quite clearly.

Quit trying to explain things from a 'fake Battler' perspective. It's just a bullshit theory Beatrice spun out to confuse him. And you. And it has obviously worked.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958979
>Although, if I were him, I would go for Lucifer, or maybe Mammon. Actually, most of the stakes of purgatory are worth going for

Those are batshit insane killers who take joy in killing and torturing people.
I would go for Virgilia, she is more classy and kinda lady like.... if she is not batshit insane like Beatrice.
He is surrounded by crazy women. There is not even one normal who wouldn't want to torture/rape/kill him in different ways and turn him into a plaything forever.
Makes the choice kinda hard to figure out which one is the lesser evil.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958991
Do you remember everything you did six years ago? Of course not. But if someone told you of a specific event that wasn't amazingly ordinary, like a trip to your wealthy family's private island, you'd remember it, and he does. Go a little further into that scene and you'll see him using that english everyone remembers him for.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958807
>Also Battler x Beato ending even remotely possible?

It's pretty much a given at this point to anyone who's actually been paying attention. Whether or not Battler x Beato will get a good end, though, is much more up in the air.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959032

You got taken in by Virgilia?

Played ep 4 yet?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959033

I'd like to add to this. Battler has NEVER used any english in 1986.

[Anonymous No.]

continued:

>Besides that, even if you do have the same person using the same weapon, why are there so many differences between the episodes?

The victims of the First Twilight.

>Why are there only two victims with partially recognizable faces in Episode 1, while every victim has enough of their face left to be identifiable in Episode 4?

A good question. I'm not sure I have a convincing answer for it.

>Why were the bodies moved to the shed in one episode, but left where they lay in the other? Why did one episode have just six people killed, while the other had six killed, five apparently taken hostage, and another two who managed to escape?

With regards to these two points, we know that something went horribly, horribly wrong in Episode 4, given that everyone died before October 4th. The witch's game never happened at all, which is why we have no epitaph killings and barely any stakings. Most likely, the Episode 1 killer became active and was murdered by someone else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>If anything, it's more implausible to think that two people, given the same weapon, would behave in exactly the same way.

Well then, riddle me this:
If you have the same killer with the same weapon, supposedly acting in the same way, why are all but two of the victims different? If they wanted to kill Gohda in one episode, why would they not try to take his fat ass down while he was attempting to make a run for it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959033
His memory always "freezes over" whenever he remembers six years ago. I find it hard to believe it's simply a case of "not remembering" so much as it is "never experienced." At the very least, we know that he's not remembering something because of the whole business with Suit-Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959049

In fact, he says he's bad at english when "happy halloween for maria" is written on the chapel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959073

>why are all but two of the victims different?

Opportunity.

> If they wanted to kill Gohda in one episode, why would they not try to take his fat ass down while he was attempting to make a run for it?

They're trapped on an island, it's too much effort to run after him, and he can't go far.

[Anonymous No.]

Maria is the real Battler. Six years before the murders he wished to be the little girl and his wish was granted.

Rosa's always a bitch to Maria because she's not really her daughter (but she doesn't know it because her mind was altered by real Battler/Maria).

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959080
I was pretty sure this was the case, so thanks for the confirmation.

>>2959049
...Oh snap, I'd forgotten about that.

>>2959073
>If you have the same killer with the same weapon, supposedly acting in the same way, why are all but two of the victims different?

You're assuming that the killings occurred in the order in which the story presented to us, which isn't necessarily true at all. We know there was no witch's game and for all we know, the six who were found in the dining hall could have been killed last.

[Anonymous No.]

Battler is the best fucking thing since sliced bread. I am very gar for Battler.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959104

The annoying thing is, I was arguing earlier that the Battlers are the same... but now I've convinced myself they're different due to the english business.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959049
Have a nice day, and never come back.

[Anonymous No.]

So what's up with Ange, she doesn't really exist right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>They're trapped on an island, it's too much effort to run after him, and he can't go far.

"Too much effort" my ass.
You're telling me someone who would exercise enough care and precision to not blow away ALL of their victim's face while using a weapon that renders such things irrelevant (if not impossible) at close range even once, let alone six times, yet they can't be bothered to fire a shot off a lard-ass and a senior citizen who are attempting to flee?

>>the six who were found in the dining hall could have been killed last.

Not possible. When Beatrice announced that Kanon was the first of the five people in Kirie's group to die, she also said in red that he was the 9th victim. In other words, eight people died before he did, and we know from the phone conversations that at least Kirie, Krauss, Shannon, Kanon, Kumasawa, and Gohda were alive before Kanon was killed. Don't remember if Najno spoke to anyone on the phone, though. As we also know that all of the cousins were still alive prior to Kanon's death, that makes at least ten people out of the 17 that we know were alive before Kanon became the 9th victim.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959183

She wasn't born yet that time. Ange came out when Battler was banish from the family.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959183
She's mentioned a little later in that very scene.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959195
.... It's said that Ange didn't go to the conference because she was sick.
This scene was from the opening of Ep1, AKA October 4th 1986.
How was she not born yet?

[Tatari !JERKwzbfbg No.]

>>2959046
I can totally identify with mouth ulcers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>all of the cousins were still alive prior to Kanon's death, that makes at least ten people out of the 17 that we know were alive before Kanon became the 9th victim.

Wait, on second thought, were they?

Goddamn it, I can't be bothered to start playing again right now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959202
Are you sure? In Ep1?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959179
He never uses it outside of that instant in which they specifically had been talking about it and everyone who remembers Battler recalls that Battler of six years ago had a specific penchant for using English catchphrases in the manner of Ange/Amakusa.

The fact that so many people forgot the instance you screenshotted is a testament to how little he actually does it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959204
>>2959204
>when we played together

The last time Battler went to the conference was 6 years ago. Ange wasn't born that time. Battler was banished from the Ushiromiya family and never got the chance to play with them together with Ange.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959214
Battler doesn't see any corpses until after everyone is dead. As for the red text, it only says Kanon is #9, nothing else about the order.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959219
He doesn't do it any more because he realized how much of an idiot he sounded like. Apparently you haven't done the same. Rereading the scene might help, because it's fucking obvious to anyone with half a brain that he's only claiming ignorance to avoid embarrassment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2958343
That or Episode 6
Turn of the Black Witch

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959194
>You're focusing on semantics and missing the point as a result. I was simply saying that we can't necessarily believe that the six in the dining hall were killed when the story said they were and there's many reasons for this.

For one, you're assuming that everyone to whom the cousins spoke to on the phone was actually the person they thought it was, in spite of many of them saying things completely out of character. It could be someone else mimicking some of their voices.

Also, you're assuming that the six in the dining hall were killed before the phone calls began, which isn't necessarily the case at all. For all we know, EVERYONE could have been alive by the time all the phone calls ended and all the murders happened afterwards. Obviously, this is improbable, but my point is that we really have no idea when the murders actually take place or in what order, apart from Kanon.

Finally, if we know for certain that 10 people were alive, when Kanon died, then how would Kanon be the 9th victim?

[Anonymous No.]

Suspect
Episode1 - Natsuhi/Kanon/Jessica
Episode2 - Rosa/?????
Episode3 - Eva/Hideyoshi/Nanjo
Episode4 - George/Goldsmith

If the killers in every episode is different what events trigger who do the killing? Is there a way for Beato to influence who is the murderer in each episode without magic? Also does goldsmith exist or some old faggot is put there by Nanjo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>Battler doesn't see any corpses until after everyone is dead. As for the red text, it only says Kanon is #9, nothing else about the order.

So, what exactly ARE Rudolph, Rosa, Eva, Hideyoshi, Natsuhi, and Genji all doing while Kirie and company are claiming they're dead, with Gohda and Kumasawa corroborating the story, and the kids getting sent out one-by-one for some bizarre "test", if NOT having the insides of their heads decorating the dining room?

What were they doing while Kirie and company were apparently lying to their children about their deaths, while they were getting called out for some bizarre "test"

That's not even going into how messed up it is numerically.
If Kanon is victim #9 out of 17 total and the first of Kirie's group of 5 to die, then between those 5 and the 4 siblings, you have 8 out of the 17 people who could have possible died before Kanon. Even allowing for the deaths of George, and possibly even Jessica to be included, that's still only 10 possible people. There's no way at least two of the victims in the dining room were not killed before Kanon was.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959240
>it's fucking obvious to anyone with half a brain that he's only claiming ignorance to avoid embarrassment

He's not just feigning ignorance to avoid embarassment. The whole business with Suit-Beatrice clearly demonstrated that he's forgetting a lot of things from six years ago. Do you deny that?

And remember that Suit-Beatrice =/= Dress Beatrice. Suit-Beatrice is an actual living, breathing person and not just an illusion Dress Beatrice made from nothing to mislead him, given that he sees her with his own eyes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959276

Rokkenjima syndrome

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959302
Even if Beatrice is a living breathing human, that doesn't mean everything she says is the truth. Furthermore, Battler's sin is not "a lot of things", it's one thing. Forgetting one thing does not imply that you are not yourself, it implies that human memory is imperfect, which it is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959302
Just to add, the whole bit with everyone remembering Battler to be a different person six years ago is mentioned in some way in all 4 episodes. From a narrative standpoint, this indicates that it's probably more than Battler just faking.

[Anonymous No.]

>>For one, you're assuming that everyone to whom the cousins spoke to on the phone was actually the person they thought it was, in spite of many of them saying things completely out of character. It could be someone else mimicking some of their voices.

Yes. I'm assuming that these people possess the utterly impossible and inhuman ability to recognize the voice of their own parents and loved ones, people who they have, I also assume, spent at least enough time around to know what they sound like on and off a telephone. It's crazy, I know, but work with me, here.

>>Finally, if we know for certain that 10 people were alive, when Kanon died, then how would Kanon be the 9th victim?

For starters, the fact I didn't say there were 10 people alive when Kanon died might help. I said there were 10 people we know (or, are at least somewhat sure, if you're so insistent on that 'we don't know for certain the people who were on the phone were who they said they were' thing) were alive BEFORE Kanon died.

We also know, regardless of who they were, that there are 8 people who died before Kanon did. The rest of Kirie's group is excluded, as the red specified he was the first of that group of 5 to die. We can also safely exclude Battler and Maria. That's 6 people we know for a certainty could not have been dead before Kanon. Out of 17 total people, that's a pool of only 11 from which you could pick the first 8 victims.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959331
It's not so much what she does. She asks him to remember something that she said happened on Rokkenjima six years ago. He can't. She then gets pissed and leaves. Unless you're writing off that entire scene to be a bluff on her part (which would render it meaningless and make no sense), it makes far more sense to think that Battler is actually forgetting something.

>Furthermore, Battler's sin is not "a lot of things", it's one thing. Forgetting one thing does not imply that you are not yourself, it implies that human memory is imperfect, which it is.

You're making a mistake here. Want to know what it is? You're assuming that Battler's sin is a specific action. It isn't.

Battler hasn't forgotten his sin, in his case, forgetting is the sin itself, which is why he'll be completely forgiven if he remembers. And while he only has the sin of forgetting, we don't know how many things he's actually forgotten, but given the disparity between what he knows and what the other characters know, I'd wager it's not an insubstantial amount.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959356
Are you sure that someone confirms both Kanon and Shannon to be alive on the phone? I don't recall if that was the case. Either way, see:

>Also, you're assuming that the six in the dining hall were killed before the phone calls began, which isn't necessarily the case at all. For all we know, EVERYONE could have been alive by the time all the phone calls ended and all the murders happened afterwards. Obviously, this is improbable, but my point is that we really have no idea when the murders actually take place or in what order, apart from Kanon.

Even if we know for certain that 10 people were alive at some point, we don't know that the other 8 weren't also alive at that same moment in time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>Battler hasn't forgotten his sin, in his case, forgetting is the sin itself, which is why he'll be completely forgiven if he remembers

Why does this somehow sound familiar...

>>Do you know what is the sin?
>>It isn't because you ate the forbidden fruit.

>>Do you know what is the sin?
>>It isn't because you listened to the serpent.

>>You still don't know what is the sin?
>>Then, that itself is your sin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959393
Shannon talks to George, Kanon talks to Jessica.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959401
What's the context of this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>Even if we know for certain that 10 people were alive at some point, we don't know that the other 8 weren't also alive at that same moment in time.

Well then, allow me to repeat myself.
If those other people, the six victims from the dining room included, were alive at the time of the phone call, what were they doing? Why were the alleged "survivors" telling this story about these people being killed, as were the two servants who made it back to the guest house? Why would Kirie lie to Battler about the death of her husband, his father? Why would Krauss lie to his daughter about the death of her mother? And if they were just lying, and these people were all, in fact, alive when they were being reported as dead, why is it that they all wound up in the exact same room in the exact same state they were said to be in when the lie about their deaths were being told?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959455
>Why were the alleged "survivors" telling this story about these people being killed, as were the two servants who made it back to the guest house? Why would Kirie lie to Battler about the death of her husband, his father? Why would Krauss lie to his daughter about the death of her mother?

To add credibility to their story. These are the same people who, while simultaneously recounting how everyone "died," are also saying that Krauss has a powerlevel of 11,000 and was able to knock out a demonic,tuxedo wearing goat with a cross-counter. If all the dead are found exactly where they were told with the same wounds as they were told, then it makes these kinds of wild lies more believable.

And in this case, belief is important, because whether you're anti-fantasy or anti-mystery, the culprit's chief motive is to make everyone believe witches exist and that witches are the culprit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959520
They're telling these stories to lend credibility to the stories they're telling?
I get the feeling you're not understanding the question I'm asking here.

WHY are they telling these stories to begin with? Are they doing it of their own free will? If so, then why do they all wind up apparently shot in the head, with at least two different types of gun being used?
Are they being forced to do it? If so, then how the hell do you work out the logistics of telling of a murder of six people in intricate detail, murder those very people in the way they were described to have died and arranged in the place they were said to have been killed? More than that, who would have been able to hold so many people hostage at one time, and get all of them to cooperate?

It certainly doesn't make sense if all of the servants were in on it, as at least two of them die before the rest of the hostages are killed.

Why is it, that if there was any sort of coercion going on anywhere along the line, did no one apparently STOP going along with it all once it was down to just Battler, Maria, and whoever was the last one to die before those two? And if you're actually the killer, why kill yourself when there are still two people left alive, at least one of which had NOT bee directed to do something that would have resulted in him killing himself?

[Anonymous No.]

it was sooooo kanon who did it in ep 1.

that sack he was carrying in the beginning? kinzo's body

maria saying beatrice is in this room right now when kanon is in the room.

kanon saying natsuhi can go to hell

etc

[Anonymous No.]

>>2959331
lol how do you know. There is no 's' in Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

ep5 is Natsuhi-Beatrice

[Anonymous No.]

Ep 1: Nobody
Ep 2: Beato
Ep 3: Eva-beato
Ep 4: Kinzo
Ep 5: ????

[Anonymous No.]

Why the fuck is everyone still saying that there are 18 people when it was already proven that the correct number is 17.

Unless we're assuming that Kinzo is victim #1 (of which Kanon is 9th) ?

[Anonymous No.]

I say Kyrie is the real culprit

She arranged to kill everyone and make Ange the heir. In fact she probably planned for Ange not to be there.

However, Eva got the best of her and her plan fell apart

[MolesterJim No.]

They are all guilty.
Excluding Battler, everyone has a plan.
It's just a matter who makes the first move and which plan gets implemented first.
Whether magic exists or not.

[Anonymous No.]

It will certainly be a deconstruction of the detective novel genre if by the end Battler proclaims everyone as the culprit

[Anonymous No.]

>>2960665
That would be awesome. Battler vs everybody, and he wins due to hotblooded use of small bombs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2960665
MURDER ON THE ROKKENJIMA ISLAND

[Hong Meiling 門門 !!CkFE91f1n9T No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>2960674
Rosa? Not wearing any pants? DO WANT

[Anonymous No.]

[Hong Meiling 門門 !!CkFE91f1n9T No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

I wish to cuddle 00 and tell her it's alright

[Anonymous No.]

00's great but I like 45 best

[Hong Meiling 門門 !!CkFE91f1n9T No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Hong Meiling 門門 !!CkFE91f1n9T No.]

>>2960724

[Anonymous No.]

>>2960724
Why is Sakuya so manly.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>2960644
It would be funny if Battler was the only one who was innocent, and the rest were all planning to screw over the others. Then Beato would be innocent, too, since she's just punishing really evil people.

Then Battler and Beato can break the game wide open and have a manly fistfight before the whole world falls...

Wait...

[Anonymous No.]

All of the killings were motivated by love. There are no villains on Rokkenjima. Without love the truth cannot be seen.