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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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2528771 No.2528771 [Reply] [Original]

Am I alone in hating the new continue system? Because it feels pretty good perfecting the whole level to lose all my lives to virtue of the wind god again

>> No.2528778

You shouldn't be using continues in the first place.

>> No.2528786

It has its pros and cons in comparison to the old system. I'm not sure which one I like better.

>> No.2528793

>>2528786
I fail to see the pros, this new system is pretty much a gimp practice mode.

>> No.2528805

>>2528793
You can try a level as many times as you want and keep progressing through the game without having to start over from the beginning.

>> No.2528829

>>2528805
so people who use continues like it more and people who don't use continues still won't use continues?

>> No.2528846

>>2528829

More like, people who used continues to finish the game previously are fucked (serves you right) but people who didn't use continues shouldn't see much difference.

Main use of it in my view is a poor man's practice mode. If you get stuck on a level it forces you to practice it until you can do it with two lives. It's a amusing cockblock for people would just continue through the game and then use practice mode to learn how to 1cc it.

>> No.2528849

>>2528829
Sounds about right. Although the old continue system could still be advantageous because you could save up your continues for when you needed them and use them in the middle of bosses.

>> No.2528852

>>2528846
What's wrong with using practice mode to get to the point of 1cc? Going through the first 3-4 stages of any touhou is pretty much a waste of time as those are pretty easy.

>> No.2528865

so this thread is about the shooters, but how do i stop sucking at IaMP and SWR?

>> No.2528942

It would be fine if you started over with the number of lives you had when you entered the level the first time, rather than LOL LEVEL 6 WITH 2 LIVES GL WITH THAT.

>> No.2528947

>>2528846

We no longer play on arcade machines, we no longer need fake difficulty to keep us putting in small change.

>> No.2528966

>>2528947
>fake difficulty

Hahaha oh wow. GTFO

>> No.2528989

>>2528966
>GTFO
Get out of /jp/.

>> No.2529012

>>2528966

Why? Forcing people to play through levels they could do blindfolded to get to the part that kills them in seconds doesn't make the game any better, it simply pointlessly increases the time it takes for new players to get better at it, since most of their time is spent sailing effortlessly through the first handful of levels.

>> No.2529049

The new Continues system discourages newbs from completing it via constant bombing. It's quite easy to get through her previous spellcards like that, but then you get stopped on the final, because the big gaps get blocked off with small ones.

Are you supposed to _not_ shoot her? Or does she ramp up the difficulty as time passes, and not at the last 20 seconds? Because she's not that hard to dodge initially.

Anyway, it isn't called "Hard" for a reason.

>> No.2529117

>>2529049
It gets faster with time, the colors start overlapping about 20-30s in and just speed up. Even with max power and not fucking up those first 30s I still usually end up dying 3 times to overlapping colors. Her other cards are a joke though can pretty much do them without bombing most of the times through.

>> No.2529258

It should be regular continues, but not unlock practice mode if you use any. Do the older games work that way? I've had them unlocked for so long that I have no clue.

>> No.2529433

I never continued in the old system, but I sometimes continue with the new system. It's just a more convenient practice mode, so it's not as bad as the old system.

>> No.2529567

The new continue system should ONLY apply to the last level so that people can't just credit feed through the game. Dodonpachi does this on it's second loop, if you die on Hibachi but use a continue you're sent to the beginning of stage 2-6 again. Besides, if you credit-feed you are not enjoying the game to its fullest, so continues should be avoided anyway.

>>2528947
That's just silly. Easy games are boring. Just because the difficulty is beneficial to the arcades (to get more money) doesn't mean it's not equally beneficial to the player (to provide a more exciting challenge).

>> No.2529587

The new continue system is awful. It favors good players over bad which is the opposite of what a continue is supposed to be for. Trying to beat the hardest stage with 3 lives is a lot harder than having 5 or more from building up lives from the early levels.

>> No.2529609

>>2528942
This
THIS

This is how it should be. You should start over with the number of lives you entered the level with. Unless it's lower than 3 then it goes to 3 by default.

>> No.2529611

>>2529567

But all it does is force players to replay through levels they've already mastered over and over again, all to get to the part where have have trouble with, quickly lose, and then repeat the cycle over again. Surely forcing people to repeatedly cruise through parts they don't even have to think about is the exact opposite of an "exciting challenge"?

>> No.2529625

>>2529611
That's what 1cc is all about. Doing the same 4 easy levels a hundred times so you can get to the 2 hard ones. If you make a mistake on the 2 hard ones then you have to start all over again. It's very tedious. It's more about perseverance than skill.

>> No.2529634

>>2529625

But this isn't about a 1CC, this is about the preparation to get one. All needlessly denying a player the ability to use Practice mode to improve does is artificially extend the game while driving away new players.

>> No.2529642

>>2529611
You're doing something wrong if you can do stage 4 perfectly every time but get raped on stage 5.

>> No.2529658

If I could use CheatEngine to start the game off at level 4 with the average number of lives I have when I reach it, I would. I wouldn't really think of it as cheating either. There's really no point in making me play the first 3 stages every time. It just wastes time. The first 3 stages are just a warm up. The real game doesn't begin until stage 4.

>> No.2529661

>>2529642

Or rather, the game is, by forcing the player to perfect a stage before allowing them even a reasonable attempt at the next one.

By its very nature, the continue system ensures that every single time a player manages to get that little bit further, they are going to get utterly destroyed on the next slightly difficult segment or card. Touhou is at least as much about foreknowlege as it is pure skill, and this system denies that until the previous sections are perfected.

>> No.2529672

>driving away new players

Knowing /jp/, this is not going to be seen as a problem.

>> No.2529674

>>2529625
If you really did the first 4 Stages perfect, you could destroy Stage 5 and 6 without problems, as you'd enter them with 8 lives.

>> No.2529684

>>2529661
You're exaggerating the problem. You could bomb on every spell card and several times throughout the stage if you had done that well on the first 4 stages. But go on making excuses for why you suck.

>> No.2529695

>>2529684

I can 1CC Hard mode, thank you very much. Not the best player, but I hardly "suck". What I object to is the idea of a system which arbitrarily makes the game more tedious, particularily for new players, without at any point adding to the difficulty or overall experience.

>> No.2529697

Touhou difficulty

Stage 1: |
Stage 2: |||
Stage 3: ||||
Stage 4: |||||||||||||||||
Stage 5: |||||||||||||||
Stage 6: ||||||||||||||||||||||

>> No.2529716

Doing the first 3 stages perfect is not an accomplishment. Doing the first 4 is. Most 1cc runs have the player having a perfect run until stage 4. Stage 4 is when they start losing lives. Even if you have the maximum number of lives at that point, you're not going to have an easy time with the rest.

>> No.2529736

>>2529716
The problem is the final boss usually takes 3 or 4 lives to beat unless you're extraordinarily good. That's pretty much half of the lives you have throughout the entire game which leaves almost no room for error.

>> No.2529739

>>2529695
ZUN doesn't care about new players. Continues are retarded in STGs anyway. I think ZUN just felt obligated to put some sort of continue system in, but he didn't want anything that would let someone credit feed. Same reason why all the final spell cards are such cocks.

>> No.2529745

>>2529736
>3 or 4 lives to beat stage 6
>perfected stages 1-4
>total of 8-10 lives throughout a game

>> No.2529750

>>2529736
And half of those lives are needed for the final card that has a a shit load of HP and bombs do nothing.

>> No.2529769

>>2529745
Depends what Touhou you're referring to

Maximum number of lives

EoSD: 9(11)
PCB: 11+(13+)
IN: 10(14)
MoF: 9
SA: ? (no idea how much star pieces there are in one playthrough)

>> No.2529771

>>2529750
No single card should EVER take more than one life. How can this possibly happen? Even if you get to the card with no bombs, if you die you get 3 bombs. I can't think of a single card that requires more than 4 bullet cancels (3 bombs 1 death), even final cards. If you can GET to the final card on a credit, you should have no problem clearing it with 4 bullet cancels.

>> No.2529783

>>2529771
The extra life is a safety net in case you accidentally get hit and fail to death bomb. You play more nervous when you know you're on your last life and you're more likely to screw up.

>> No.2529825

>>2529769
SA needs 5 star piece for a 1up. From what i can remember, you collected 6 star piece which is equal to 1 1/5 1UP

>> No.2529824

>>2529769
Proof that EoSD is the hardest to 1cc on

>> No.2529829

>>2529825
Forgot. Those are stage 1 btw. And can differ by game difficulty on how much star piece you can collect

>> No.2529834

>>2529771
>. I can't think of a single card that requires more than 4 bullet cancels (3 bombs 1 death), even final cards. If you can GET to the final card on a credit, you should have no problem clearing it with 4 bullet cancels.

Virtue of Wind God

>> No.2529873

>>2529834

Is that the final spell card in MoF?

If so, seconded.

>> No.2529890

>>2529873
Yeah, that's the name of it in Hard/Lunatic. known as Mountain of Faith in Easy/Normal

>> No.2529939

Forcing a player to go through levels he already knows well enough just so get raped on the next stage is retarded.
That said I like the new continue system much more since it allows me to actually try again until I clear the sage rather than just being extra lives. I don't see how that is any worse than practice mode.

>> No.2529963

>>2529825
I remember that you can have 6 1/5 stars at the end of level 3 (hard and lunatic).

>No single card should EVER take more than one life.
On my first SA Lunatic 1cc, I died 3 times on Cat Sign "Vengeful Cat Spirit's Erratic Step".
Of course, that was all my fault for not bombing.

>>2529697
How about SA (Luna)?
Stage 1: ||||||||
Stage 2: |
Stage 3: |||||
Stage 4: ||||||||
Stage 5: ||||||||||
Stage 6: ||

>> No.2530209

>>2529939
It goes against the arcade philosophy, thus it's bad.

>> No.2530224

>>2529939
>That said I like the new continue system much more since it allows me to actually try again until I clear the sage rather than just being extra lives. I don't see how that is any worse than practice mode.

>> No.2530250

>>2530209
even practice mode goes against arcade philosophy. but arcade philosophy includes continuing at the point you died because that way its more appealing to put more coins in. that's just retarded in non-arcade games.

>> No.2530294

>>2529658
I actually found a way to do that. You can force the game to start you off at level 4. What's interesting is when you save a replay, it has --- next to the first 3 stages like Extra.

>> No.2530305

So what's different?

>> No.2530319

>>2530305
In the old system you simply got more lives when you use a continue so you can just suck through the whole game.
In the new system you start from the beginning of the stage and actually have to get good to progress.

>> No.2530329

>>2530319
You start back at the beginning when the MINUMUM amount of lives. The word is capitalized to show importance. Let's say you enter the stage with 5 and manage to screw up too many times and game over. Now you have to do the level with 3. For you to screw up, means you had trouble with the stage and now the game expects you do it with the minimum amount.

>> No.2530336

>>2530329
And even if you do succeed, it doesn't mean anything. You might have overcome a hard challenge but you still get the bad ending. You were better off starting over to build your lives up for that stage. So what's the point of the continue system again?

>> No.2530346

>>2530336
Cry more. Get over it or don't play.

>> No.2530351

>>2530336
Unlocking practice mode specific stages so you can practice ahead?

>> No.2530350

>>2530346
Typical fanboy response. Bad design is bad design.

>> No.2530374

>>2530329
That's true, but if you had troubles with the stage it doesn't really matter if you get 3 or 5 lives. Sure, with more lives you might make it through the stage but only by sucking, not by getting the hang of it. If your only goal is to get to the end no matter what the old system would be better, yes.
>>2530336
The point is to repeat the stage you have trouble with until you stop sucking at it. Just going in with more lives doesn't make you magically stop sucking. Sure, you might be able to make it, but that doesn't mean you suck any less.

>> No.2530417

It would be cool if you selected continue and ZUNs head would appear and laugh at you, then it goes straight to the game over screen.

>> No.2531258

>The point is to repeat the stage you have trouble with until you stop sucking at it. Just going in with more lives doesn't make you magically stop sucking. Sure, you might be able to make it, but that doesn't mean you suck any less.

More lives = less need to bomb = getting the hang of it faster

>> No.2531265

>>2530417
It already kind of does this by occasionally flipping the selector from continue to quit and return to title.

>> No.2531280

>>2531258
That's why practice mode with 3 lives isn't that good.

>> No.2531371

>>2529939
welcome to video games

>> No.2531415
File: 21 KB, 513x384, teruyohuh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2531415

http://insomnia.ac/commentary/arcade_culture/

NEVER CONTINUE

>> No.2531425

It's prettys awesome, so long as you don't mind
█████████████████████
█████████████████████
█████████████████████

>> No.2532909

Hating it and ignoring it. That is why I'm sticking to the quality titles like EoSD. Not that I'm using continues for the moment, since I'm trying to 1cc normal.

The game would be so much better if I learned to bomb. I usually get to stage 5 on 2 bombs or so. I should be having like 10 bombs at least to spend, but I'm always "too good" to use them. I know how to dodge all bosses 1-5, I just screw up.

>> No.2534790

And after 5 hrs of practicing stage 6 with continues I finally beat Virtue of Wind God oddly managing to capture it, felt like I could see forever... now I can practice it properly in practice mode, OH WAIT

>> No.2535048

if you need more than the minimum lives the continue gives you to beat a level, then you should be practicing the level instead of crying about how you can't see the ending without actually being awake for the gameplay part.

>> No.2535170

The problem with the new continue system is that it interrupts the game, a GRAVE mistake, specially in a fast paced game like a shmup.
The intention is good, It is way easier to 1cc the game, than to continue...but the execution is poor, a continue should never interrupt the game, that's why it is called a continue.
A proper "Retry" system may work better, while still keeping the intention of rewarding those who aim for the 1cc.

>> No.2535377

So I have to beat a stage with minimum lives so that I can practice it with 10 lives. Great idea ZUN.

>> No.2535415

Which version of the game should I get?

>> No.2535417

>>2535170
So I'm not alone in thinking that 1cc is easier than using a continue and doing the hardest stage with 3 lives

>> No.2536036

>>2535048
People actually pay attention to the story?

>>
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