/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Is Rider with Master Sakura( before she started adsorbing servants and becoming dark sakura and ect) capable of defeating Berserker ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2400814
Yes

[Anonymous No.]

No. Berserker is crazy powerful and can only be defeated by plot armor. I don't think even the Eyes will work more than once (Berserker has low magic resistance though IIRC), Bellerophon is Rider's only chance at doing something, if she has the mana to get off Pegasus and do it.

Or she can snipe Ilya somehow.

Otherwise Hercules goes hulk smash.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2400840

>Berserker has low magic resistance though IIRC

While he doesn't have a resistance blessing like Saber and Lancer, Rider's eyes explicitly cannot petrify someone with Magical Energy of A or higher rank.

He merely loses his Berserker Benefit of +1 everything.

Now she has to kill him TWELVE TIMES with Bellerophon. Without letting him get a proper hit in once.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2400868
Also in 12 different ways.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2400882

You don't have to kill him in 12 different WAYS, just 12 different times over.

Caliburn killed him 7 times over when he only had 5 lives in stock, for one.

However, Berserker can wisen up if she just rushes him with Bellero, and will eventually get a swing-and-a-hit, most likely destroying Rider and Pegasus in one swoop..

[Anonymous No.]

>>2400899
Once Berserker dies he becomes immune to whatever killed him.

Bellerophon has no way of killing Berserker 12 times over in a single rush.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2400912

>Once Berserker dies he becomes immune to whatever killed him.

Where the FUCK did this info come from?

That is not mentioned under the God Hand or "???" entries at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2400932
guy's pulling shit out his ass. From what he's describing I think he's got Type-Moon's Heracles confused with DC's Doomsday

[Anonymous No.]

Doesn't Rider get some sort of huge stats increase when riding Pegasus?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2400932
>>2400945
I'm not him, but I think they did mention in game that the same attack was less effective on Berserker. Not on immune-level, but still.
Anyways, people take the "must be killed 12 times" too literally. He can recover from otherwise fatal wounds 12 times, but if an attack does enough damage no amount of regeneration is going to cover that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2400932
Berserker says it himself in the fate route in his brief interlude of sanity right before you have awkward sex with saber.

Heracles was a master warrior who would never fall for the same trick twice may be what he's meaning but archer killed him with a different blade everytime so its still up in argument.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401039
yes, but type moon stats mean didly dick.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401070

I thought he was just amazed that Archer killed him 6 different ways, not that he had any special benefit of the same attack twice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2400868
Wouldn't sane Hercules just pull out his bow and shoot rider out of the sky?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401081
I thought it had to do with one of berserkers side abilities not his noble phantasm. A rank battle contiuation combined with a high Minds eye(fake) means the same attack coming at him twice and he can probably flex his rock body in a way to shrug off the damage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401084

He doesn't actually regain his sanity, he just gets a minus 1 due to Rider's Eyes suppressing him. This cuts out the plus 1 he gets from being a Berserker in the first place.

She still has to fight a mostly-B rank madman while keeping her eyes locked on him at all times and maintaining a Pegasus and A+ rank Mystic Eyes. Sakura will be very taxed to run her, especially with the Crest Worms eating and eating.

[Anonymous No.]

Berserker should've won all 3 times, but all 3 times he was defeated with plothax.

He's the most blatant example that power levels don't mean shit in the type moon universe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401109
Wouldn't insane hercules still just chuck a rock at her?

[Anonymous No.]

Little Facts often misunderstood:
Rank doesn't always define the RAW power.

Not all Rank B+ or A attacks have the same output. The story itself informs you that a simple attack and a Noble Phantasm attack can have the same output.
But all attacks ABOVE Rank B will BYPASS Berserker's armor.

A half-assed Excalibur by Sperm filled Saber kills him like 3-4 times, imagine a full impact one.
But an attack ABOVE rank B may also be unable to actually scratch him if not applied properly (Shirou could not claim a live with his Caliburn Slashes when he slased his arms and body)

And Hercules is no matter the condition, a master warrior.
When you attack him once, his instincts and body will protect him from the same attack, not make him completely immune.

This conditions make it VERY hard for a SINGLE guy to eliminate him, since you need both a high mystery and various effective attacks. That's why Gilgamesh is the perfect guy for the job.
Or an Archer+Lancelot Combo.

Of Course, Saber with Unlimited magical energy throwing Excalibur Beams can do it too, but it's hard to happen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401151
Actually, who beats who only depend on who the plot needs to win at a given moment, powers or anything have nothing to do with anything.

[Anonymous No.]

If we go by mythology......

Hercules is a famed hero, madman, Argonaut, monster slayer and human turned god. Who fought on an entirely different level then The hero who haxxed Medusa to death.

Medusa is a famed Godhater, manhater and human turned monster. She killed many many unnamed heroes and was basically cheated to death thanks to powerful magic armor on godblooded guy.

Seems like a pretty fair match up but hercules would win because he, besides being super strong and a bowman he was the batman of greek mythology if he had preptime not Odysseus good but good none the less.

Also I know type moon Perseus is just some douche who looks kinda like gil, but I still think him having riders head as a noble phantasm would be hilarious if they met( he doesn't if I remember correctly though).

[Anonymous No.]

Actually, I want to know how strong a full powered Fake Assassin would be.

I mean, he was able to hold off every other Servant that attacked the shrine, right? Including Berserker. Unless I read something wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401193
fake assassin would have died in a single hit from any distance attack noble phantasm.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401193
he had the advantage of higher terrain, he's always fighting on stairs.
Also, he's a Japanese spirit so he gets bonuses from being on his native land.
Also, plot.

Hassan was here,
Kojiro sucks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401193

There's no such thing as a "Full Powered Fake Assassin", as he's a nameless wandering spirit who by sheer coincidence was the swordsman who created the perfect technique Tsubame Gaeshi, which in modern times is reputed to be used by Sasaki Kojirou.

He is what he is. The fact that he got pulled into the Holy Grail War is sheer luck, as any random spirit could've been grabbed by Caster and given a body (as she could not get a soul from the Throne of Heroes due to being one herself).

His sword technique is simply truly perfect, so even Servants have nothing on it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401193
He can't get more powerful.
He doesn't have special attacks or defenses.
He is just the BEST fucking swordsman of the story.
And with just the higher ground, he fends of other servants and make guys like Lancer think 'I'd rather not fight the guy'.

But you can in theory start a fucking fire(magical) at the gate and he would be able to do NOTHING.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401193
Lancer would have ripped him apart with his gay bulge if he wasn't command spelled not too.

Saber was in weakened state and trying to protect shirou.

Archer isn't a sword fighting hero.

Berserker hadn't attacked the temple yet to my knowledge.

Rider ninja'd around him and recognized medea because she was a famous "witch" from her time(this is a guess never saw it explained)

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401214
Archer is enough of a sword-fighting hero that his technique could defeat Dark Saber when wielded by Shirou. That's damn good enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401207
>>2401208
>>2401209

So he was just a damn good swordsman? One of the rare cases where sheer skill beat out hax?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401224
exactly.

>>2401222
PLOT

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401222

Kanshou and Bakuya Overedge is a technique begotten by Tracing the true meaning of the swords, not really an attack developed by Shirou Emiya.

As in, even Caliburn was fighting Berserker when normal Shirou Traced it. Traced weapons "remember" how to fight on their own, if done properly.

Besides, it's 6 simultaneous attacks; Tsubame Gaeshi itself is just 3. [A Stance that Doesn't Need any Openings] can count as a perfect attack too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401224
Disregarding Pokemon Affinity (water beats fire or whatever), in Type Moon you have:

Raw Power/Magical Supply
Skill
Mystery(the ranks and history/protection they have)

Assassin had MAX skill.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401224
more like he was good enough to guard a single gate in advantageous position. He made the perfect watchdog, but hardly anything more than that.
If not for plot and Nasu feeling the need to have a japanese servant he'd suck pretty badly. I have trouble thinking about another servant who couldn't defeat him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401222
It's more of a swordspam attack(4 swords make her open for a slash) rather than pure swordfighting skill.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401238
He could not fight properly anyway.
The guy is not a heroic spirit nor he can walk away from the fucking gate.
He is perfect for his limited job.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401238
Yeah. All the other Servants have noble phantasms they can pull out. Assassin may be superior to many of them in pure melee, but he doesn't have a trump card to match a noble phantasm.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401230
>>2401234
>>2401238
>>2401250

So in theory, if he WAS an actual Heroic Spirit, how good would he be?

Sorry if I sound like a fag, but the fact that he managed to hold off everyone else even if his position did give him an advantage seems impressive to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401261
Does it matter?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401261
Of course it's impressive.
But being a heroic spirit doesn't give attacks on the spot, it means that people worshiped you.
The guy had no divine/demonic weapons or protection from Gods, so the speculation is too wild of 'what he could have'.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401267
>>2401275

Sorry, just curious.

It seems I don't fully understand the differences and perks of the Heroic Spirits. I'm going to go due some research on the matter and maybe that will clear things up for me.

[Anonymous No.]

Now onto more important matters Who would make a better heroine, Lancer. Gilgamesh or Archer?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401405

If Shirou's still male, definitely Archer.

If Shirou's also a female, harem route

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401405
Delicious brown.

But Lancer is still Lancer. Can I have my Illya Archer-ko instead?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401405

Archer
>I'm you from the future and I've come back to kill myself before I get that sex change!

WAT? SELF I AM DISSAPOINT.

Lancer
>I made enough geas in my life to where if you word something in a certain way you can probably force me to do it. Also I smell like a bear.

FAITH MY BEGORAH!

Gilgamesh
> You filthy worthless mongrel. You're nothing but a child and a man none the less. You sicken me. Honestly to think that men and children would be fit to be a master is absurd. You really are the worst creature in existence arn't you?

Insult me more PLEASE.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401456
No because thats almost an illya route.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401288
Think about it as memes.
Heroic spirit does some impressive thing?
He and his weapons are talked about everywhere, copypasted in a few legends, shit gets popular, popularity = power.

Asking what Koujirou would be as Heroic Spirit is like asking what memes would [insert minor *chan here] have if it were popular?
It simply isn't. You can speculate if you want but it's more futile than most other TM speculation bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm pretty sure Rider would just harass the shit out of Berserker. The area around the Von Einzbern mansion is heavily wooded and positively ideal for Rider's hit-and-run tactics.

Berserker would have to find a way to pin Rider and get a good cleave in. One such way would be to locate and threaten Sakura, forcing Rider to abandon her skirmishing and directly intervene.

Otherwise, Rider would either assassinate Ilya or wear down Berserker. There's no reason it would have to come down to a toe-to-toe slugfest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401504
why would illya wait for them to come to her?

Illya has no qualms about killing masters and berserker is a juggernaut, if sakura is still on land somewhere she's fucked.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401512

My memory may be fuzzy, but when I played F/SN, I remember that Ilya rarely left the Von Einzbern mansion. The few times she did, she targeted Shirou, either to talk to him or to attack him. The only times she engaged other masters and servants were when she stumbled across them on her way to Shirou, or when they hunted her down at the mansion. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that Rider would be able to engage Berserker in the forest surrounding the Von Einzbern mansion any time she wanted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401527
why would he be in the forest when he could fight in the mansion itself or the huge open area were the mansion is located?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401531

Do you know what hit-and-run means?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401504
>wear down Berserker

With what, exactly?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401542
yes and you'd have to hit hard enough to kill him, and run fast enough.

remember berserker isn't shabby on speed. he's just big not big and slow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401553
>>2401504

Yeah, aside from Bellerophon, I'm sure Berserker could shrug off just about everything else Rider could throw at him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401555
Shiro and Kotomine were able to outspeed him for a while (although Shiro had Archer's arm and Kotomine is a fucking beast). So I assume Rider has no problems with outspeeding Berserker

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401559
Shirou fights rider and doesn't die like 4 times.

PLOT PROTECTS

Kotomine is a monster he doesn't count.

Berserker outruns you in multiple bad ends.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401553

With her weapons, of course. Berserker is tough, but Rider has the advantages of range and speed by such a large margin that she would have almost total control of the fight. Eventually, repeated shots to the eyes, neck or even less vital areas would wear Berserker down and make him vulnerable to a deathblow.

Also remember the reason Ilya doesn't g out on hunts with Berserker all the time. Berserker puts a huge strain on Ilya. His every movement puts her in pain. She's gotten used to it by the time she meets Shirou, but that doesn't mean it can't be an issue anymore. She's very quick to leave when she and Berserker can't make a quick kill and even after they do, which is an indication of this drawback. Ilya and Berserker cannot exert themselves for very long. Long, drawn-out battles of attrition are very bad for them. Berserker is quite vulnerable to a conflict with a skirmisher like Rider. It will take time, but he will go down.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401559

They had a HUGE headstart though.

Berserker is a fucking beast. They point out multiple times that his speed is amazing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401564

>Berserker puts a huge strain on Ilya. His every movement puts her in pain.

She seemed to be standing there just fine when Gilgamesh was raining swords down on Berserker.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401564
berserker isn't retarded, just mad.

Riders nail wouldn't even harm his skin and knowing hercules he would grab the horse and fly into the sky with her(Hercules doesn't fear magical beast he's killed many of them) after a few blows that maybe take one of his lives.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401562

You meaning Shirou.

Berserker can easily outrun Shirou. A three legged dog could outrun Shirou.

But Rider is not Shirou. She has no problems running circles around all the other servants, least of all Berserker.

Berserker had difficulty engaging Saber in a graveyard. He has no hope of catching Rider in a forest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401564
What part of "Berserker is completely immune to any and all attacks below rank B" don't you understand? I seriously doubt those nameless chained daggers are going to do anything.

Eyes are a valid point unless his NP protects those too, but your can hit his neck with a rock and it will do the same thing as Rider's shitty daggers. Maybe she can exert Gorgon strength for a while to be able to harm him, but look at how much punishment Saber takes before going down and compare how many blows it will take for Rider to kill a beast like that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401574

Saber's no slouch. She's pretty much a mini-Berserker, minus the RAGE.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401574
Saber would have taken one life in that graveyard and then dissipated.

also SABER IS A MELEE HERO AND A MASTER FIGHTER.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401578
>Eyes are a valid point

See >>2400868

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401568

She also seems to be confident when she runs away from Saber and Archer in UBW, insisting that she's "letting you go."

Ilya is in a small war between magi. She has to mercilessly crush all of her opponents. Of course she is going to bluff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401564

>Berserker puts a huge strain on Ilya.

AND RIDER IS PERFECTLY HARMLESS TO SAKURA HUH

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401585
Saber and archer together would rape her harder then Perseus did her skull.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401585

Hot damn, if she can bluff that well then she should have no problem bullshitting her way through a prolonged battle.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401588
In comparison, yes(Sakura has other things that wear her down more).
See the command seals they prepared in Ilya's body so she could maintain a constantly mad Berserker.

[Anonymous No.]

Rider is worthless, only good for her sex appeal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401585

I'm pretty sure she retreated because she knew she was potentially outmatched, not because she was in pain due to Berserker.

Saber on her own is a threat, and she's backed up by another Servant you know almost nothing about? Remember, underestimating a Servant is one of the quickest ways to get your ass blown into oblivion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401588

The OP is ruling out the events of HF, which includes the crest worm nonsense and the whole mana starvation that made it impossible for Sakura to use Rider effectively. That was just grandad Matou's shenanigans at work. Berserker put Ilya in pain no matter what.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401596

Not even.

If Sakura uses ANY MAGICAL ENERGY AT ALL, the Crest Worms start eating her body. Maintaining Rider's physical form is an annoyance. Having her fight is painful. Having her engaged in a short skillful battle (i.e. Rider v. Archer) nearly killed her. A long-running battle like Rider vs. Berserker like you imply would have Sakura dead long before Ilya dies from Berserker.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401597
That sounds good enough to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401600

No, the OP just said before Dark Sakura, so no infinity magic hax.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401600
sakura was never trained like tohsaka was, rider would have been supported but Nowhere near full potency.

I doubt she could handle bellorophon, eyes and keeping herself protected.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401604
Err, the Crest Worms attack her mostly when she does shit she is not supposed to.
The point is, Strain of sustaining ANY Servant under any circumstances<Sustaining constantly mad Berserkers.

See what happens to Kariya who has a berserker who drains EVER more mana and he also has crest worms, and you see the difference.

[Anonymous No.]

Honestly, Lancer seems like he would do a better job against Berserker than Rider would.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401615
Of course.
He could bypass Berserker's Armor with NORMAL attacks before NPs and he has runes that both enhance his power and have attack properties.

Though 12 lives on his own is still very difficulty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401599

She was getting outmatched. Her limitations with regards to her use of Berserker were among the factors contributing to that. Saber and Archer were hitting Berserker as hard as they could and he wasn't suffering obvious or visible damage, only struggling to defeat Saber. Archer launched a one-time attack at Berserker that failed to eliminate him. In addition, trust issues were starting to develop between Saber and Archer. All in all, things were looking pretty good for Ilya and Berserker when she called off the fight.

Unless, of course, there was something she wasn't letting on to Shirou and Rin. She gathered valuable information about her opponents and they didn't have the capacity to launch any more hard hitting attacks on Berserker anymore. But they were grinding the fight to a standstill and that's not good when your servant's every movement involves a lot of pain and exertion for you. It's not good enough to be evenly matched.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401612

>Sustaining constantly mad Berserkers.

5th Berserker WASN'T constantly mad. She only used the "Go Mad, Berserker" buff ONCE. He wasn't SANE, but he didn't get his boost and didn't tax Ilya more than he needed to.

>See what happens to Kariya who has a berserker who drains EVER more mana and he also has crest worms, and you see the difference.

It was because Crest Worms eat the body when they need energy (SAKURA HAS CREST WORMS BTW), and a Berserker needs a lot of energy. Berserkers do not inherently damage the summoner, but Ilya was different because her body is a Command Spell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401615
Nah. Bellerophon gives Rider a better chance I'd say. Gae bolg will deal a lethal blow, but Berserker isn't fazed by lethal damage. So Lancer will be annihilated by Berserker's counter.

Of course there's the "lol Caliburn kills 7 times in one blow"...so, yeah, who knows.
Fucking Caliburn. Goddamn, Nasu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401615
lancer properly supported is one of the most fear inspiring heroes in this war.

His legend while not well known in japan is in great detail and he's gained more curses and equipment then most heroes in his time.

Also when he throws gay bulge it fucks shit up on level with god weapons(archer compares it too odin's spear).

He's just too busy being forced to suck kotomine's cock to fight seriously and too proud to use runes for combat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401622
That's where you are wrong.
It's pointed out that she kept him mad at all times, both because she had issues and the Einsberns instructed her so.
>>2401623
Holy Sword of the highest order wielded by it's rightful master slashing you in a critical spot does wonders.
Shirou wielding it half-assedly chopped of his fucking arm.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401620
I wouldn't say she was outmatched per se--but she was smart enough to withdraw before Rin took advantage of Archer's sniper position. Once Rin ordered Archer to aim at Ilya, Berserker's mobility is destroyed because he has to protect her. Saber would flank, and Ilya is then screwed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401623

I was getting more at the fact that Lancer would be able to deal out a sufficient amount of damage while also being able to avoid harm.

While Rider has high speed and relatively low attack power, Lancer has a pretty good combination of both. He seems like he'd be able to handle rushing in, dealing some damage, and getting the hell out much better than Rider could.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401626

>It's pointed out that she kept him mad at all times, both because she had issues and the Einsberns instructed her so.

Please point out where it states this, as I recall her only saying "Go Mad" once.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401626
she took his sanity as revenge for causing her so much pain in the initial carving of her command spell.

However berserker isn't kept in power mode, at all times as he sleeps the entire time he's not in use.

And it's obvious he has some sanity left as he has his own interludes

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401634
The 'Go mad' was more of the style 'Wreck shit', rather than activating mad enhancement.
BTW, check the UBW flashback.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401623

I wouldn't be terribly worried about the counter attack.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401636

Either way, Ilya is a Master with a tremendous amount of magical energy (even if it's a bluff as you say, she can go for an extended battle with no apparent physical damage) while Sakura has mediocre energy (and collapsed/went soul-consumer mode after a very short battle).

Whether the consumption rate of Berserker is higher or lower than Rider does not change the fact that Ilya has a whole lot more to consume than Sakura does.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401634

Do you put your penis in someone's butt when you say you're going to "fuck up their shit"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401641
Most probably yes, Sakura due to circumstances will collapse first.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401612
Ilya is a exception, she doesn't have too much trouble with that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401641
>>2401644

No worries, Sakura can always refill on a jack hammering session, something that can't be done for certain unnamed people under five heads tall.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401639
Hmm, true, the thrown option is definitely less risky than the close range one. It's inferior to Bellerophon by a full rank though.

[Anonymous No.]

Berserker needs to get in one hit and has 12 lives stock

Even being grazed by berserker will destroy rider's body.

Berserker would adapt to battle and kill rider without problem probably before losing more then 1 life.

He is a master warrior and even in madness has unparalleled combat instinct only topped by saber's magical luck.

also stat wise Berseker on foot is technically faster then rider.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401654
Actually lancer's noble phantasms would be A rank if bazette was still his master and he was properly supported.

[Anonymous No.]

Ilya took away Berserker's sanity before the war began. This has nothing to do with the madness class skill.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm not an F/SN fanatic like anonymous but I find it terribly hard to believe the creators intentionally put in a class that can't possibly win the grail war. Some people's take on the matter in this thread is if you summon Rider the only solution is to quit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401690
In the current grail war where everyone else cheated?

YES YOU SHOULD

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401690
NOT IF YOU SUMMON THIS RIDER!

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401690
It's not the class' fault only, but teh master's mostly.
True Assassin for example should not be engaging Servants at all and keep stalking till a master is vulnerable. But Zoken has different goals and means.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401693
Flamer

[Anonymous No.]

Ok then, you're in a grail war, you summon Rider. You wish to be the little girl forever, tell me how you win against Berserker.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401701
No, he's a Rider.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401690
rider
lancer
caster
and
archer

were all summoned at a disadvantage compared to Berserker(Einzbern cheating)
Saber(swordhax and Einzbern cheating)
Gilgamesh(I RUN ON ORPHANS)

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401708
Cooperate with Someone.
You scout and talk to the less loopy bastard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401690

Rider on its mount is a formidable opponent.

Saber has no real method to combat it short of a lucky Noble Phantasm (Arturia without her GIANT LASER BEAM would've been raped).
Archer perhaps is best disposed to fight mounted Riders, as they can snipe the Rider.
Lancer has to get close, which is a nightmare in and of itself. Also, Lancer's typically trumping speed usually gets matched by a Divine or Demonic Beast.
Caster has to get over the sheer magical power of a Divine/Demonic Beast. Troublesome.
Assassin can't fight any Servant, really.
Berserker has to rely on Berserker gimmicks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401708
trade rider to a female master for dickings.

Who cares?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401708
Let women and children take care of Berserker. When the battle is over, kill the women and children.
Fuck year.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401713

>Gilgamesh(I RUN ON ORPHANS)

This is the best line ever and I'm going to use it from now on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401723
Every line based on Fate Gilgamesh is the best line ever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401713
Even at a disadvantage, they still had abusable abilities that could've won them the tournament.

Rider had her Gorgon Eyes.
Lancer had Gae Bolg.
Caster had Rule Breaker.
Archer can snipe people with knock-off noble phantasms.

It's really more down to plot than anything that they lost. Hell, if Rider could survive to the end of Heaven's Feel, then given the right circumstances, any particular servant could.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401723
HE'S POWERED BY A FORSAKEN CHILD!?!?!

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401727
And there you have it.
Different match-ups and circumstances lead to different outcomes.
Archer's presence changes the first Berserker encounter dramatically.

[Anonymous No.]

We-ll guess I'm the only one who likes this servant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401747

I like Hassan, and I think that both 4th and 5th HGW iterations of him would be excellent Servants IF THEIR MASTERS FUCKING USED THEM RIGHT.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401747
Nah, I like him.
Poor guy is both loyal and has to deal with very hard order, and he has a very different style.
Also, HASSAN CHOP

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401752
I though both of them were used pretty well in both HGWs, since they were never expected to be 1-on-1 servants in the first place.

That said, who the hell would've guessed Kotomine never had a heart? I doubt Gae Bolg would've worked on him either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401762
He can still die from massive trauma, as seen in UBW, thus it would work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401762

>I though both of them were used pretty well in both HGWs

I think the pseudo-knocking-off of Assassin in the beginning was an EXCELLENT move on Kotomine's part, but the fact that he was back-seat Mastering with Tohsaka kind of lessened that.

Zoken was crap with Assassin but it really wasn't his goal to win with him anyway, rather to get Sakura to be a Holy Grail and whatnot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401774
Assassin was pretty much meant to be a support character anyway, so he had to rely on either opportunity or an alliance with another master in order to be effective.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401780

Opportunity's the way to go.

Don't actively hunt, don't change your schedule, just have Assassin scout, find a Master, and wait for an open moment.

This would effectively eliminate everyone but Archer and Caster in his workshop.

[Anonymous No.]

I think some assassins can even beat some servants if they use their noble phantasm at the right moment.
For example, the noble phantasm of the assassin of the third HGW (appears in hollow ataraxia) can turn the brain of the opponent into fucking gunpowder, blowing up the entire upper half of the body.
Not many servants could survive something like that, except those who have fuckawesome regeneration abilities, such as Berserker, but then again, no one fucks with Berserker.

[Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 No.]

>>2401990

>the noble phantasm of the assassin of the third HGW (appears in hollow ataraxia) can turn the brain of the opponent into fucking gunpowder

Now that is hardcore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2402026
It requires physical contact of his hand with your hand though.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>2402029
>It requires physical contact of his left hand with your head though.
Fix'd for accuracy.

[Anonymous No.]

Don't forget that Assassin raped Lancer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2402077
It's the Shadow/Assassin combo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401990
>turn the brain of the opponent into fucking gunpowder
Why didn't they put this assassin instead?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2402102
Every assassin has a trump card, and this guy requires physical contact.
Doesn't make him THAT much more useful than the 'Crush your heart from a relatively small distance' guy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2402102
PLOT

[Anonymous No.]

>>2401990

Haven't played HA, but wasn't 3rd war Hassan a puppet master or something?

About Rider vs Berserker, I think Rider's speed is overrated. She can barely keep up a few minutes harassing Black Saber. If she can bring Berserker inside a properly populated Bloodfort maybe she'd have a chance of at least bellerophoning Berserker a couple times.

[Anonymous No.]

>blowing up the entire upper half of the body
This seems unnecessary. It's not like they can keep on living with gunpowder instead of brain, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2402166

The gunpowder is fully-functional as a cerebrum.

However, the firing of neurons sets of the gunpowder anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2402172
theres no opportunity to prove that it functions as a cerebrum if it explodes immediately after

[Anonymous No.]

>>2402182

I'm sure they explain it in as much needless detail as possible, right before it explodes mid-battle.

[Anonymous No.]

You know , Rider vs Berserker kind of reminds me of Kagetsu Tohya.


The Nanaya Kiri vs Kishima Kouma. Do you guys remember how that went ?

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>2403004
Kiri almost won, and would have had, had there been a little more force to his attack.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2402166
Given that Shirous is made of swords and survives things worse lack of a brain on a regular basis, replacing his brain with gunpowder could create some kind of cyborg.