/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Sup, /jp/.

A friend and I are serious about learning japanese, so we torrented all 3 levels of Rosetta Stone, however there was a topic a little while ago on /a/(not that I trust them or anything), about how Rosetta Stone is garbage for learning japanese.

How do you suggest we learn japanese, /jp/? We're going to travel to Japan in a little over a year from now, and I was hoping to learn enough so that we could communicate a little bit.

[Anonymous No.]

buy a book you illiterate lazy piece of shit

[9800GTX+ !aNVIDIAuwk No.]

My Japanese Coach.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325219
1) learn kana, you can probably brute force memorize them fairly easily.
2) learn kanji, heisig
3) tae kim
4) read/listen to stuff
repeat 4 as necessary

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325231
Okay, give me his number.

>>2325230
Why should I go out and buy a book when I can torrent the eBook? I'm not illiterate you fuck, I'm trying to learn a language.

[Dolor !Du1A6pui8g No.]

If you only need enough Japanese to get by, then you don't really have to do anything to serious. Get the Pimsleur audio tapes and you'll be speaking like a broken record in no time.

SUMIMASEN, ANATA WA NIHONJIN DESU KA

It's not much, but it's more than enough for your purposes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325241
because staring at a screen is a passive activity that results in very little education.
Hence why children still go to school instead of learning from the VIDEO TEACHER

[Anonymous No.]

I'd recommend taking Japanese classes if you have that possibility. I've learned quite a deal by going in one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325235
This, except skip 2 and learn kanji purely from reading manga

[Dolor !Du1A6pui8g No.]

>>2325241
My Japanese Coach is a DS game.

[Anonymous No.]

A year and you'll just learn conversational Japanese? Why not actually put some effort into it and get farther?

>>2325235 is right. Learning kana takes only a few days with some hard memorization. Learning Kanji is the next step, but you should also at this point begin to learn about grammar.

While you are learning kanji, be sure to begin reading as much as you can. The easiest way to learn new kanji is with a book, as it gives you a context in which it is used. Don't try to memorize kanji by reading "1000 kanji in 100 days" guides, those things are bullshit brute-force memorization plagues that will only help you if you are looking to be a walking dictionary on elementary school words.

[Anonymous No.]

Genki and guidetojapanese.org
Kanji is a longer term commitment than a year. You might be able to get a decent number of them in a year, but that would require either a LOT of time spent studying or sacrificing time you could be spending learning to speak it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325256

I would like to learn it further, I just mentioned that by next year I wanted to know enough for at least conversational.

I was wondering if you guys had any reccomendations as far as books / language-programs go.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325262
>>sacrificing time you could be spending learning to speak it.

yeah talking to a mirror maybe
derpface.

[Anonymous No.]

OK, I used to be completely anti-heisig, but honestly, it's definitely very helpful for kanji.

>"BUT YOU DONT LEARN THE READINGS blah blah blah"
How does >>2325251 help you remember the kanji any better?
By being able to associate kanji with something, it makes it 1000x easier to associate it with a word that it is in. Once you learn a word it is in, then you already know a reading for it. Then, through context, you just naturally learn all the readings.

If you're serious about Japanese, focus on Heisig. It can be done in a month.
I'm at about 1100 and I remember 90% or more of my daily review kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

If you spend a lot of time reading manga/VNs/light novels, you can learn Japanese extremely quickly. I spend most of my time reading untranslated VNs/manga and I learned quite a lot in a year. If you see it as a task though, it will be, and you won't get very far.

Learn kana -> Tae Kim -> All About Particles -> Yotsuba& and other simple manga and build yourself up from there.

Oh and Rosetta Stone really is garbage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325277
'cause it's impossible to learn vocabulary on your own, right? Obviously he won't have good pronunciation or anything like that, but he might stand a chance of understanding the gist of a conversation, which would be much more valuable than being able to pick out a couple of the kanji on a sign.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325283
>How does >>2325251 help you remember the kanji any better?
I'm >>2325251 and I actually used Heisig, but honestly I don't think it helped all that much and could have probably did it without it. You'd be better learning in context, that way you'll have your own mental image for it instead of a rough English translation. It's also mind-numbingly boring to drill them all in.

[Anonymous No.]

Anki.
period.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325305
this.

Anki is one of the best programs that I use daily. Its also decent for memorizing vocab and equations for classes (CRAM MODE because I don't study for my exams until the night before)

[Anonymous No.]

>serious about learning japanese
>rosetta stone
o kami-sama

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325305
anki is just a srs idiot

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325299
>I don't think it helped all that much and could have probably did it without it. You'd be better learning in context
OK, well that may be how it worked for you, I don't disagree with that.
I've been studying Japanese for 18 months now, and my class switched from classroom texts to 'real things' like novels and stuff 9 months in, so I've had 9 months of 'pure contextual kanji exposure' and I can't read anything outside context of the novels and news articles we read.
Now with heisig, I can look at words and realize that 'I've already learned these kanji.'

>that way you'll have your own mental image for it instead of a rough English translation
I don't consider them "rough English translations"
They work the same as his "primitives" to.
夂 Doesn't really mean "walking legs," and anyone who's half educated about the method knows that.
状況 - state of affairs, condition.
According to Heisig, this means "Status Quo, But of Course"
That doesn't make sense either. But once you learn it, you can associate 状 and 況 with the word itself.

>It's also mind-numbingly boring to drill them all in.
Haha, then you musn't be doing it right!
I have a lot of fun, especially with the 尺 primitive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325344

Well I Rosetta Stone has a profesional look to it, and they boast a lot, however when I started it, it didn't feel like native speakers made it, oftentimes I found myself matching up the sounds, and some of the stuff didnt click.

[Anonymous No.]

I propose the following, feel free to be opposed to it:
First step - Learn the kana (hiragana + katakana):
Should be easy, not more than a normal study day for each at most, so it's just to get right to it. If you're into mnemonics, get Remembering the Kana (/rs/), or if you prefer more direct memorization, use http://www.realkana.com/..

Second step - Kanji:
This process will take a while, so continue on to the next steps while working on this, but it is essential if you want any written vocabulary, so please do work on it diligently. Again, if you like mnemonics, get Remembering the Kanji (/rs/), or if you prefer direct memorization, ReadWrite Kanji (/rs/) is good. If you decide to go for RtK, pay http://kanji.koohii.com/index.php a visit. There are different opinions on what exactly you need to learn with each kanji (how many meanings and readings, etc), so you'll have to decide for yourself. Just keep in mind that they work as building blocks in vocabulary, so as long as you can recognize them, you will make the most important use of them in the next step. Also, I've found that learning the stroke order helps a lot in remembering them.

Third step - Vocabulary:
Also feel free to work on step #4 while doing this one. The exact approach is freer here, but most people usually start with the vocabulary lists from a workbook, like Genki (/rs/). And when you start reading, it's recommended to pick out words you don't understand and feel that you should understand, and make your own vocabulary lists. With vocabulary lists, your options are pretty much to either read through the lists until you feel you remember it, or use flashcard software, like Teach2000 or Anki (google).

Fourth step - Grammar:
I'll keep this one simple, http://www.guidetojapanese.org/ or Genki (/rs/).

You also might want to pay http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/ a visit, for some more advanced tips.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325299
I've used Heisig and I find that it's helped a lot. I guess it depends on the person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325364
>But of Course
I stopped with Heisig after that keyword. Switched to http://www.hellodamage.com/kanjidicks/main.htm.. Never looked back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325377
>You also might want to pay http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/ a visit, for some more advanced tips.

this is the cancer killing serious language study

ITS OK TO BE A LAZY FAILURE GUYS
YOU'LL MAGICALLY LEARN IT FROM MY MAGIC NEGRO RITUALS!

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325366
That's how it is. They try looking like a serious software, but anyone who have actually tried it knows that it barely helps at all. Unless you enjoy drilling in "cat", "dog", "man" and "woman" for 30 minutes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325430
It worked for him, it worked for me. What's the matter, too EASY for you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325430
jealousy rears its ugly head
fufufu~

[TonyHawk !4pO0./8NKY No.]

>serious about learning japanese
>/jp/

[TonyHawk !4pO0./8NKY No.]

>>2325377

Oh and

>http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/

Go skip into an oven.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325430
The trick is to exercise some common sense and not think the most effective way is to go to either one of the extremes. I'm quite sure the most effective way is to combine traditional studying with actually trying to use the language the same way native speakers do.

You must keep in mind that no one has learned fluency from just a text book, but also that the native speakers who learned it without textbooks spent their whole childhoods doing so, which would be ineffective for an adult.

[Anonymous No.]

Since this thread is here, i might as well ask. For those who have learned the language for some time, how long did you take to be able "speed read" Japanese?

I can read Chinese so i can read the Kanji in an instant but i just can't figure out how to read the kana properly. I can't describe my problem exactly but i tend to read the kana one by one and figure out the word instead of reading the whole bunch at once. You know how you can just a glance at a word in English and know what it is in an instant? I want to do just that, except in Japanese. Any advices?

[TonyHawk !4pO0./8NKY No.]

>>2325498

Sure, ok. Beyond telling you to immerse yourself in the language if you are serious about learning (which is obvious to begin with), there is nothing useful about that site.

Look at this shit:

http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-h
ate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money

>don't take the jlpt

LOL sure okay bro. If you know advanced sentence structures, 1945 jouyou kanji, why wouldn't you take the test? You get qualified for teaching in Japan, and you can put it on your resume for a ton of jobs.

OH WAIT thats right, you wasted your time herp derping around with the ajatt guide and you dont know shit.

Seriously, this guy's a fucking clown.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325532

Well, you seem to act like you know a lot.

How do you suggest I go about learning japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325532
>TonyHawk !4pO0./8NKY

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325527
Just keep reading and you'll get the hang of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325532
Stuff like that is why I said "take a look at", and not "use this as your bible". The reason he's opposed to the JLPT is that preparing for it could supposedly distract you from reaching fluency, which supposedly should be your main goal. I say supposedly because I don't know enough about it myself, but I've heard from second-hand information that you'll be grinding a lot of shit that you won't need for anything else than the test. That's why it's not perfectly unreasonable to advice against taking it.

However, depending on your situation, there are likely to be some huge advantages to taking it, and that's why you should listen to him if he tells you that you absolutely shouldn't take it.

[Anonymous No.]

If you go to uni, just take a course in Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325661
This reminds me of the guy who replied to a "how does i touhou" thread with a video of a guy capturing every spell card of Flandre's and telling him to play like that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325676
Err, I kinda ruined my whole point there. I meant
>that's why you shouldn't listen to him

[Anonymous No.]

This again?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325646
Point is stop believing that AJATT is correct about everything. Taking the JLPT, for one, isn't useless at all.

[TonyHawk !4pO0./8NKY No.]

>>2325646

Buy (>buy) or download

http://www.amazon.com/Genki-Integrated-Course-Elementary-Japanese/dp/4789009637/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&a
mp;s=books&qid=1238264121&sr=8-7

http://www.amazon.com/Genki-II-Integrated-Elementary-Japanese/dp/4789009823/ref=pd_sim_b_2

http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Kanji-Kana-Revised-Language/dp/0804820775/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=b
ooks&qid=1238264205&sr=1-10

Set daily or weekly goals for yourself. For me, I would study and go through a lesson on the weekend, then do the excercises for the lesson during the following week. Genki has a lot of group/pair excercises so it's good if you have a friend or a native jap to help you out with those. With the Kanji textbook, I memorized 5 kanji per day with as many compounds as I could remember.

Just do what feels comfortable in terms of kanji. With studying a language, consistency is key, so don't go on bursts of Japanese learning binges and then get burnt out. Take it easy and make sure you're making progress. Take classes if possible because tests are a great way to mark progress. I strongly advise classes because textbooks can only take you so far. The reason I fucking hate ajatt is because it all seems so vague and unstructured-- all he does is give you delusions of nihongo learnan grandeur and how you can become REALLY ZAPANEEZ if you mine sentences or some shit. Wouldn't it make more sense to just you know. Learn sentence structures normally?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325678
JUST DO IT.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325684
>5 kanji per day
(ﾟДﾟ)

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325692
5 kanji per day is slow. With heisig you can easily do 50-100 a day minus the reading. On-yomi with heisig shouldn't take more than a couple of months.

[Anonymous No.]

Get a real teacher who knows his/her shit, man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325756
With normal kanji grindan, I do 10-20 a day, including readings and common compounds. In other words, I learn a tenth as many kanji but I learn 10x more about each one, and since I have more than a single word to associate with it, I remember them much better than when I was a heisigfag.

[TonyHawk !4pO0./8NKY No.]

>>2325756
>>2325692

5 Kanji is definitely below average. I suggest more for OP. When I first started learning Japanese I listened to fucks just like you two and I felt like I had to learn 25 kanji per day with Heisig in order to be up to par with everyone else, but now I just take it easy because of several things.

-You don't learn the readings
-You don't know any compounds
-Because you don't know any compounds, you don't know it in any other context other than lol look i know how this kanji looks like
-Grinding kanji in bulk will burn you out unless you're a fucking scholar like Heisig
-I forgot them all after a month or two.

Anyway, do what you're comfortable with OP. Point is, don't let fagets on /jp/ make you feel like unless you're memorizing 100 kanji a day, you're terrible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325779
>>2325792
You're not doing it right guys. The whole point of Heisig is to get you to be able to read actual Japanese text much faster and effectively than normal grindan does. With Heisig you're supposed to look up a dictionary and learn them compounds as you read actual texts, you'll find yourself having a hell lot of an easier time remembering them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325219

I heard RosettaStone sucks dick, get a teacher to informs you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325792
>-You don't learn the readings
The readings aren't important, shonen manga have furigana. Besides giving you a bunch of readings with no context would be fucking stupid.
>-You don't know any compounds
It doesn't claim to teach you compounds, you're supposed to learn compounds, you know, in context.
>-Because you don't know any compounds, you don't know it in any other context other than lol look i know how this kanji looks like
Look, asshole. Heisig is for teaching you your ABC, so you can start reading. Sure, you could learn an alphabet by looking up each one every time you see it, but some people would prefer to do it all in one go.
>-Grinding kanji in bulk will burn you out unless you're a fucking scholar like Heisig
Apparently some find it fun, I didn't like the method either but saying it doesn't work is fucking stupid.
>-I forgot them all after a month or two.
What? Jesus Christ there's a limit to how fucking retarded you can be. Of course you're going to forget something that YOU DON'T FUCKING USE. You're expected to start reading after you finish Heisig.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325856
Bingo.

It doesn't teach you 'HOW TO LURN REEL JAPANEEZ'
It gets you familiarized with the characters, and then once you know them all -- learnin compounds is easy as figuring out what 'proabortionism' means.
pro - supportive of
abortion - abortion..obviously
ism - the mindset of

Yes, Heisig's keywords are stupid as shit. "Rough English translations" are stupid as shit. But it makes it easier down the line.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325244
>>2325252
>>2325483
>>2325494
>>2325532
>>2325684

You know, the Sage function takes you back out to the thread list for a reason.

[Anonymous No.]

Heisigbros, have you checked out Kanji-lish yet? It replaces the first letter of english words(Heisig keywords) with the corresponding kanji. So the Heisig keyword "what" would appear as "何hat." Helps a lot if you want to practice while reading stuff in English.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7208

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325917
Total failure, because English words have different meanings depending on context.

[TonyHawk !4pO0./8NKY No.]

>>2325883

>The readings aren't important
uhhhh
>It doesn't claim to teach you compounds, you're supposed to learn compounds, you know, in context.
So how about you just learn compounds while you're learning the kanji instead of spreading it out? Oh that's right you were busy being ALL JAPANEEZ ALL THE TIME xd
>learn them all in one go

See now
>>2325856
says that you should "look up a dictionary and learn them compounds as you read actual texts" which contradicts what you're saying, which is that you should learn everything in one go because Hesig does just that for you right? Well this is the problem with you dumb fucks, because it does -=**xxNOTxx**=- teach you them all in one go. All you're left with after reading Heisig is knowledge of what pictograms represent. That's it. You know that 銑 means pig iron. LOL OKAY

>implying that grinding kanji is fun
>implying that heisig has ever worked

hmmmmmm

>reading Japanese after finishing Heisig

(ﾟ∀ﾟ)ｧﾊﾊ八八ﾉヽﾉヽﾉヽﾉ ＼ﾉ ＼ / ＼ / ＼

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325917

That is the single worst thing on the internet that I have ever seen. Haha oh wow

[Anonymous No.]

- an SRS (e.g. anki)
- Tae Kim
- anime
- 2channel

[Anonymous No.]

ITT: people who think Japanese can be learned in a few weeks.

Japanese is a long term goal, and thinking of it as something you can just learn casually with a few books will disappoint you. Go take a class or something you basement dwelling neckbearded disgusting pedophiles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325968

>anime
>nihongo learnan

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325969
This is my 2nd time posting in this thread.
As I've said, I've been studying for 18 months. I'm in classes.
I don't learn "kanji by context." The kanji I'm learning through heisig.

When you find compounds, however, you have to look those up by context, and learn the readings by context.
It's 2 separate endeavors. Why doesn't anyone understand this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325969

What the fuck are you talking about?

I'm the OP and I never claimed I wanted to learn Japanese in a few weeks, I plan to commit to learning Japanese long-term.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325980
>LOL THERE'S NO NIHONGO IN ANIMU

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325980
Never thought I would see that image again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326021

I got some news for you ass sniffer: People in real life don't talk like they do in anime. What do you think someone would sound like if they learned English from watching Cartoon Network?

[Anonymous No.]

ITT: People who don't realize that there's more than one way to learn Japanese and any particular way is not the best.

Pic related: The books I'm currently using to study. Plus I read manga, Twitter in Japanese, blog in Japanese, etc

[Dolor !Du1A6pui8g No.]

>>2325888
>sage hurts my feelings... ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

why would you want to learn japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325377
>get Remembering the Kana (/rs/)
>Due to a violation of our terms of use, the file has been removed from the server.

<_<

[Anonymous No.]

ITT: Idiots who think that learning 20 kanji in a day is "impressive" and a "good idea (lol).

If you "learn" 20 kanji a day... wait... you don't. Your ability to retain 20 kanji a day is minimal, and without usage and working with the kanji IN CONTEXT, they will deteriorate from your mind faster than all of your high school Spanish did.

[Dolor !Du1A6pui8g No.]

>>2326174
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=remembering+the+kana+part+1+2+hiragana+katakana

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326175
Agreed.
At one point in time, I knew around 250.
I can maybe read 20 now. If you don't practice it, that shit goes to waste.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326174

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326212

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326056
なに言っとるんじゃ貴様！わしの日本語は完璧じゃぞ！

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326175
Use SRS, http://kanji.koohii.com/ or Anki. You're never supposed to take a day off revising what you've learned.

>>2326107
I like em Japanese Japanese textbooks. It makes me feel like I'm really Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326251
PROTIP: Intermediate level Japanese books tend to be all in Japanese. At that level you're expected to be able to be able to read it. The only English being short grammar explanations.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326107
>and any particular way is not the best.
Some ways ARE better than others. You could learn from Rosetta Stone, for example, and it would take you a long time and you'd suck ass.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326330
I think that's pretty obvious. What's sad is that those texts don't much mention here in /jp/, it's all NO DROP THAT SHIT AND GET GENKI NAO.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326375
That's because most people in /jp/ won't get past genki 1.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326175
>Your ability to retain 20 kanji a day is minimal
If that happens, it's because you are doing it wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326375

How about you mention some of those texts?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326406
In that case... imagine this... you HAVEN'T learned 20 kanji in a day!

To learn something is to have immovable knowledge of it. What people who "learn" 20 kanji a day actually do is: momentarily read about said kanji and train their brain to retain the meaning and appearance of it. Then they review the kanji every day until it is implanted into their skull. Learning 20 kanji in a day this is not-- try calling it "learning 20 kanji in a week" instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326521
How about learning 2042 kanji in half a year? How does that sound?

[Anonymous No.]

been studying for 3 years part time now and i'm barely on proficiency level 4. thats the lowest of the four

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326536
depends on what you mean by "learning"

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326548

What the hell?

Are you serious? How much time have you spent learning in these '3 years' ?

[Anonymous No.]

As biased as it I may sound, why do I get the feeling that a good part of the wannabe Japanese speakers in this thread are Americans who're embarking on learning a foreign language for the first time and just realized that they're biting off more than they can chew?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326572

What makes you say that? Are you a foreign speaker? You seemed to learn English pretty well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326572
It's not that hard to learn Japanese as your first foreign language, especially if you enjoy Japanese material

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326572
Nice detective work there Sherlock!

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326579
What if it's your fifth?

[Anonymous No.]

I learn 3 kanji per week in my Latin class.
I've learned 120 kanji total.
Classes are the best way to go (no sarcasm).

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326620
>>Latin
>>Kanji

wat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326620

>3 kanji per week
>Latin class
>(no sarcasm)

Oh Lord, where to begin?

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>I learn 3 kanji per week in my Latin class.

[Anonymous No.]

I find it weird that these threads always focus on how to read the language, but not really on how to have a conversation in it. That's where going to actual classes or finding a conversation group (with native speakers in either case) in your area is helpful, although you'll run into a million horrible weeaboos who cannot suppress their power levels. Being able to read a million kanji is great, but it also helps to be able to ask someone how much something costs without them thinking that you're asking if it's a fish.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326652
If you can read, you can talk. However if you can talk, you can't necessarily read.

[Misaki-chan is mai waifu !KRQGZtqKic No.]

>>2326652
That's because most of us have no plans on going to Japan, we just want to read untranslated VNs and loli doujins.

On a side note, there weren't nearly as many low power level weeaboos taking Japanese as I thought. Most of them dropped out within the first few weeks too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326652

What else do you expect from a board full of NEETs?

[ZUN !barYV1VtIA No.]

It's an easy language. I've had as much trouble with Japanese as I had with Spanish.

You should eventually learn Japanese if you enjoy anime/manga/videogames and you see yourself sticking with this hobby for the rest of your life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326652
I'm just in it for the VN's/other random games.

[Stoned Anonymous !XUUanJpkos No.]

>>2325219

Personal success story here.

I spent 3 years taking university classes. Worthless.

I've been following AJATT for about 2 months.

Listening hours accumulated: 600 out of 10,000 (target)
Heisig kanji covered: 1520


It may not be for everyone, but it's definitely working for me. Anyone who doubts this method really needs to rethink their ideas of how people "get smart".

[Anonymous No.]

I used to know a guy who learned the majority of his Japanese through uni and he spoke it really weird. On one occasion my Japanese co-workers mentioned to me that he spoke like he was just recalling phrases, and there was no fluency to it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325219
>How do you suggest we learn japanese, /jp/?

Watch nicovid all day.
Eventually, you'll know what they are saying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326715
Try actually applying what you've "learned" and see how far you get hun. I bet you couldn't talk about the weather with a native or even read a kindergarten book.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326792
What? The AJATT is ALL ABOUT applying, with learning through osmosis. For example it recommends Tae Kim, All About Particles, Heisig, while applying that knowledge to reading whatever interests you in Japanese. Thanks to it I can now read most manga/visual novels/light novels.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326823
Learning through osmosis only works so far. Sure, you be able to recognize a lot of words when reading or listening, but if you don't practice them, then you will never get any experience using them.

And we all know that if you don't use it, you lose it.

Also, 3 years of university classes and it's worthless? Buddy, you are a failure. That or your university is a piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326903
AJATT also recommends chatting to Japanese people through Skype, talking on 2ch and other forums and such. What's your point?

>Also, 3 years of university classes and it's worthless?
If that was directed to me, notice I don't have a tripcode like the original poster does.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326918
Sorry, I hadn't realized you weren't the same person.

I think AJATT gets way too much credit for being a 'method.' All he did was show people 'oh look, studying doesn't have to be about grindan flashcards'

[Anonymous No.]

>>2326943
Yeah it's just common sense, but most people don't realize it. Otherwise no one would take language classes, in favour of immersion

[Stoned Anonymous !XUUanJpkos No.]

>>2326792

まあまあね。　ちょっと使えるんだけどやっはりちょっと難しく・・・あの
、米国のテッキサスに住んでいるから色んな日本人いないし・・・どう使
えるつもり、アンタ？２ｃｈ読むかな？読売新聞だろうな？

ね、どう？僕の日本語は？あなたも使えるんだろうな。

[Anonymous No.]

I hadn't taken a Japanese class before and started taking 101 at my Uni. I realised it was a bad idea to start there when we were learning the kana over several classes and having stupid pair work doing the dumb conversations in Genki. Needless to say I haven't shown up for a month.

[Anonymous No.]

I was thinking about trying to learn the 2000 or so Kanji this weekend. I figure if I repeatedly write them out, I should be able to retain at least half of them right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327293
What the shit? Stick to english for now or only try to use it in private, you're only making a fool out of yourself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327440
I say go ahead and try. Chances are you'll ragequit before you get anywhere.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327463
I figure it would be a lot easier than using flash cards or whatever because, for me at least, writing them out makes it easier to remember.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327293
色んな sounds weird in this case, use あまり instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327472
A native acquires complete kanji fluency over the course of his entire educational career using the method of rote learning. Let's see you try.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327293
日本語が本当にあんたの苦手ですよね〜

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327537
Sounds like a challenge.

[Anonymous No.]

５で終わったら木村あやかとセックス出来る

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327561
（笑）

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327561
wwwwwwwwww

[Anonymous No.]

Are there any examples of how Japanese people actually write the kana and stuff in everyday life out there? My teacher wants our writing to be perfect but I mean, my English looks terrible and that's my first language.

[Anonymous No.]

AJATT = STFU do everything in japanese as much as possible. Learn kanji and practice them everyday, once said kanji are learned well enough KEEP PRACTICING everyday. Make correct sentances and practice saying them everyday. If possible speak with real japanese and listen to japanese all day. Be japanese.

oh and don't be a fucking pussy.

[Stoned Anonymous !XUUanJpkos No.]

>>2327452

でも分かっただろうね？僕の使える日本語がやっぱり上手じゃないのだ・・
・しかし、コミュニケーション出来るようにこうで良い。

>>2327521

あ、そうですかい？ありがとう、やさしくて日本語教えてくれた名無しさん
　＾＿＾

[Anonymous No.]

俺は日本

[Anonymous No.]

One does not truly know Japanese, until one THINKS in japanese.

Give it a try sometime. Worked for me and Chinese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327679

>そうですかい？

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327679

>そうですかい？

FFFFFUUUUUUUU

[Stoned Anonymous !XUUanJpkos No.]

>>2327958
>>2327934

何だよ、お前ら
そうですかいってちゃんと言ったのに・・・
意味は「Is that so? Yes/no」と同じだろうな。

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327679
While かい is an alternative to か, it makes you sound like a middle-aged salaryman

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327539

Fail

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327969

This. Stop learning outdated Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327967

Don't use お前ら

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327972
>fail
Get the fuck back to /a/ or /b/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327981
How about てめえら?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327985

大失敗した

Happy?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327988

あなたで結構だよ。

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327981
What's wrong with お前ら? If you're asking him to use あなた on 4chan you're an epic tard

Oh and stop giving him such a hard time, at least he's trying unlike most of /jp/

[Anonymous No.]

>>2327996

1) お前ら is generally used by Japanese males
2) お前ら is also rude

あなた is fine. Or even just 名無しさん.

Really, I commend you trying to sound like a young Japanese male, but you're not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328009
>2) お前ら is also rude
HAHA! Rude? In 4chan? Where we prefix everyone with -fag? No way!

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328017

Do you think he is only going to use Japanese on 4chan, genius?

[Anonymous No.]

Nameさん works fine too if you know their name.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328023
Do you think he uses お前 for everyone? No, I'm sure he knows when to use what, it's not fucking hard. This is 4chan, going around calling people あなた and 名無しさん is going to make you look like a fucking tool.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328036

And saying お前ら makes him look all cool, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328045
Does that really matter? What is cool about /jp/?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328049

Exactly. Why use　お前ら then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328058
Why not use it? Sounds a lot less gay than trying to be polite on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328045
Jesus Christ, I give up. It's not about sounding cool, it's about sounding natural. Him using あなたたち in this case wouldn't sound natural.

Go read some 2chan and come back when you're less clueless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328067

We're talking about someone who learned かい instead of か. Can you really be sure he knows when to say あなた rather than お前ら? It's not like using あなた is wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328077

Because Japanese people speak the same way they do on 2chan? That's like saying people go around saying lol and using internet euphemisms in daily conversation. I know people might do that, but they sound retarded.

I agree, あなたたち is also lame. The beauty about Japanese is that you can make a sentence and probably omit あなたは or あなたたちは.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328088
>in this case
>IN THIS CASE
>IN
>THIS
>CASE
This is 4chan, this is not daily conversation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328088
Wait, where did you get the idea that 4chan was "daily conversation"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328095

I understand. However, some people have the misconception that they can speak the same way online in daily conversation. He can use お前 all he wants, I can't stop him, but if he wants to talk to Japanese people, it would be better for him to refrain from using that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328107

I never said 4chan was daily conversation. I said learning Japanese from 2chan would lead you to believe that people actually talk like that in daily conversation. He can go ahead and be as rude as he wants on 4chan, but if he believes that he can talk like that in person and no one will think that is strange, then I wanted to say something about that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328111
Just let him learn the wrong way. It'll be funny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328117
Basically you're assuming that because he's talking like he's on the internet, while he's on the internet, he'll do the same in real life. Although possible, I find it less likely then you seem to think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328117
>I said learning Japanese from 2chan would lead you to believe that people actually talk like that in daily conversation.
Purely from 2chan? Maybe. But who the fuck learns purely from 2chan? Most have at least watched a few J-dramas and seen videos of real Japanese people talk.

Fuck. Addressing people is one of the first things you learn. Do you even know what you're talking about? I don't think you know any Japanese outside of pronouns and simple words.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328126

Oh please. Have you never heard of people who think they can speak Japanese because they watch anime all the time? Sure, you learn Japanese reading 2chan and watching anime, but it is not always right. There are times where you need to be polite speaking Japanese, and if you act like you're talking to someone over the internet, it can really make you look silly. It's all Japanese, so it is not incorrect for him to learn it, but you also need to learn how to use it. Would you speak like that during a job interview? How often do you see 敬語 on 2chan?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328132

I know how to address people. For christ's sake, I'm a third year Japanese major and going to Sapporo in the fall.

[Stoned Anonymous !XUUanJpkos No.]

I like how people thought I didn't know お前ら was rude, lol.

Do you always use English thats age-appropriate? You've never said something really old or out-there that someone hasn't scratched their heads at? You're fucking dense.

Besides, I'm 23. You want me to use ばかばか　or でしょうじゃないわよねっしょう or something?

Nobody speaks or writes perfect english, don't expect even fluent japanese people to do the same. Learn how to communicate casually, that's how we all learned english first.

[Anonymous No.]

How many versions of "you" are there in English?

[Stoned Anonymous !XUUanJpkos No.]

>>2328139

テレビ番組じゃ警護時々見た事あるし・・・まあまあね

で、あの本間日本人は外人日本語使える筈ないから大丈夫だモン。

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328189

漢字を間違ったよ。警護じゃなくて、敬語だ。

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328148
If you knew how to address people you wouldn't be calling people out on 4chan for using お前.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328210

I already explained that I said it so the person doesn't make the mistake of using it in person.

[Stoned Anonymous !XUUanJpkos No.]

>>2328209

しまった、ありがたい！
ちょっとＩＭＥの所為でね

[noko !bOfIK5g35Q No.]

>>2328210
We all watch anime its not hard to forget yourself and use omae especially when you've never spoken to a Japanese person before and all you do is watch animes.

[Stoned Anonymous !XUUanJpkos No.]

>>2328222

It isn't a "mistake" if you're friendly with whomever you are using it with.

I call my friends 'fucker' and shit all the time in English. You don't have to distance yourself all the fucking time. In fact, a lot of young japanese people speak more plainly just like a lot of young americans do.

But just like in English, you wouldn't start using 'fucker' with say your parents unless you were REALLY close to them, right?

For fuck sakes people use some goddamn common sense when you post.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328233

読めばいいのに

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328222
That's not what you said, though. You told him to use あなた on a fucking imageboard. You did not say "make sure not to say お前 in real life". Besides, you really need more faith in the immersion method if you think it's easy to mix them up. The words have their own feeling and it's almost impossible to use them without knowing how you're sounding if you've even been learning just few months, though maybe you've had your head in too many stale textbooks to figure that out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328237
Sometimes I refer to myself as 俺様 when speaking to Japanese people. Shit gets annoying.

[noko !bOfIK5g35Q No.]

>>2326715
Good to hear of your success stoned I've been following ajatt too! I'm up to 1243 kanji thanks to kanjireview@koohii. Slowed down a bit to complete some other projects but I'm still doing reviews :D

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328244

It IS a mistake if you use it with a stranger or even with someone of importance.

Common sense? Do you know about Japanese society at all? Why do you think 敬語 still exists?

There is no "golden rule" for speaking Japanese. If you want to use お前　when talking with your friends, go ahead.

The fact is there ARE people who do not understand the difference. There ARE people who may make that mistake. Whether it is you or not, it does not matter. Good for you if you understand Japanese, but not everyone thinks and learns the same way as you do.

[Anonymous No.]

下らない言い争いを延々と引きずるあんた達は本当に一人残らず呆れ返った
碌で無しの群れだね。果たして、あんた等の中で日本語の真の美しさ、つ
まり冴えた、出来栄えの優れた文章を深く理解する者はいるだろう。否、
一人たりともいないに決まっている。やはりまた期待しすぎたね。

[noko !bOfIK5g35Q No.]

>>2328268
haha oh I don't know if I would ever have the balls to go there. lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328262

I said that he should just use あなた in general. If you care that people might call you out in /jp/ because you use あなた,　then use お前. There is nothing wrong with using あなた at all.　名無しさん is an alternative as well. Unless you can read the mind of everyone that reads the board, it is impossible to determine that everyone understands the difference.

Of course words have their own feeling, which is why you should understand the difference. If you go onto an online dictionary and search "you," you will find multiple answers. From that alone, how can you determine which one to use? That goes for a lot of words as well.

[Stoned Anonymous !XUUanJpkos No.]

>>2328273

I get lazy sometimes (go figure, see trip), but the idea is to not kick yourself when you're down or miss reviews. If I sleep in and forget to do my kanji, I say fuck it, turn on Game Center CX and read 4chan with Kanjilish turned on. Or I'll troll niconico for vlogs or something. Or I'll watch Jap. TV clips on youtube. Or I'll play old snes RPGs in jap. while listening to jap. news. Whatever, man. When I got work to do, I just turn on my jap. music and do it. Even if your gains are minimal, they're still gains.

If people WANNA be lame and like...take classes, go ahead, but I'm enjoying myself doing my normal daily shit this way. I'm even learning to enjoy anime again because of it.

本当楽しみやな

[Anonymous No.]

Of course if your school has a lousy Japanese program it's not your fault, but it doesn't mean that Japanese classes suck.

[Stoned Anonymous !XUUanJpkos No.]

>>2328285

そんな筈ではここに笑

二年後で確かに

[Anonymous No.]

One anon is saying that some people are retards who spout stupid casual shit when they shouldn't.

One anon is saying that some people aren't retards and can tell the difference.

You're both right, stop fucking arguing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328360

The internet is made for arguing

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328355
このやり取りからすると、2年が経とうが100年が経とうが、本格的に進歩す
る見込みは毛頭ないね。まあ、どうなるかっていうのを差し置いて、今の段
階で必死にもがいたりしているあんた等の惨めな姿は私の心を随分躍らせ
ている。

[Anonymous No.]

Op here.

Wow, I leave for a few hours, smoke a blunt, come back and this is whats going on? A shitstorm over grammar?

Oh well, for those of you who've helped me, I thank you. I'm downloading Genki right now, along with some other programs mentioned in this thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328472
>A shitstorm over grammar?
Welcome to 4chan. We hope you enjoy your stay here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328472
I find it's better for my sanity if I smoke and browse simultaneously.

[Anonymous No.]

>A shitstorm over grammar?
weekends on /jp/ (ie. the type of people who stay home on Saturday nights)

[Anonymous No.]

I don't agree with AJATT's method.

It may be good to immerse yourself in japanese 24/7, but that language is so different from english you won't even know where to start.

Basic grammar guides are still needed to grasp the general structure of things, before going on to the "real stuff", learning colloquialisms and various ways to say things.

Oh, and by the way, Japanese is my third language, English being my second one, understanding the basics of an oriental language is quite different from an american/latin language, as the general structure of things is quite different, you can jump in and learn french/italian just by reading/listening, because it has SOME RELATION to english/spanish, with Japanese this is not the case.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328513
>It may be good to immerse yourself in japanese 24/7, but that language is so different from english you won't even know where to start.

>Basic grammar guides are still needed to grasp the general structure of things, before going on to the "real stuff", learning colloquialisms and various ways to say things.

That's why he recommends Tae Kim and All About Particles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328513
>English being my second

Wetback detected. Studious, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328513
I had an easier time jumping in an learning Japanese than I did learning French.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328529

Heh, that's an interesting (and almost a compliment to me) statement to make. As i have barely spoken with any americans, let alone gone to the US. I guess this kind of proves AJATT's point about listening/reading being more important than speaking/writing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2325377

Not the OP, but I've been at step one for a couple days. If anyone cares, I found a decent app for the iPhone/iPod Touch (in b4 lol iphone sux) called Hikachan H and Hikachan K, and they both use association between the shape of the kana, a drawing that's similar to the kana, and a sound relating to the drawing that helps reinforce the pronunciation of the kana. Here's a cap. I can extract the images for anyone who doesn't have an iPod and thinks this program is worth some merit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328916
So all it does is teach the kana?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328924

It also has reading comprehension and quizzes, a section on stroke order, and it also has an option to play an audio clip of the sound.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328916
>I can extract the images for anyone who doesn't have an iPod and thinks this program is worth some merit.
Sure, why not. I have the hiragana pretty much down, except for a couple characters that give me trouble, but the katakana is more annoying.

[Anonymous No.]

What's /jp/'s general upload site of choice?

[Anonymous No.]

Where can I download genki?

Because really, >buy

[Anonymous No.]

>>2329059
Mediafire

[Anonymous No.]

>>2329099
I think the Pirate Bay has a torrent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2328975
http://www.mediafire.com/?4yytemueqno

Keep in mind, your mileage may vary, and some of the images in here take a bit of imagination.

[Anonymous No.]

Katakana
http://www.mediafire.com/?4yytemueqno

Hiragana
http://www.mediafire.com/?nkmzwlixzjq

[Anonymous No.]

>>2329151
Thanks. As long as I get even a couple useful mnemonics out of it it'll be worth it, and I'm sure they can't be any worse than Heisig's.

[Anonymous No.]

get:
neospeech misaki 16
textaloud (the one that works with firefox 3)

install and will be able to have voice playback of any webpage text. can the use to hear spoken japanese as well as read it.