/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

What is the appeal of Touhou?
I've never understood it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
Cute girls.

[Anonymous No.]

You seriously asking that question here on jay?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322600
>>20322614
Don't manga have form and substance, though, while this is just form? Don't you guys get tired of the same girls over the years (waifus aside)? I mean, with manga or VN, you get a new batch of relevant girls with every title. Why fixate on these random ones?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322714
Genuinely curious of course, not flameb8ing.

[Anonymous No.]

Flan

[Anonymous No.]

Cute girls

Interesting and fun setting

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
Fun games, lots of characters with unique designs and entertaining personalities, great music and interesting lore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322714
>I mean, with manga or VN, you get a new batch of relevant girls with every title.
The fuck is that sentence? Touhou get new games, ost, lore and girls every 2 years.

[Anonymous No.]

More fan content than you could ever consume in a single lifetime.

[Anonymous No.]

it is good

[Anonymous No.]

It can be anything. Some people are just in it for the characters, some prefer the music over all else, and some actually do enjoy the gameplay a lot. And what do you know, some like a combination of elements, or even just everything about Touhou. And it's an evolving franchise, so there's always something new in one of those areas. So, the same reasons anyone likes any series, really. What answer were you expecting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322714
Why would you get tired of the same girls? It's hard to emotively connect with characters if you're never going to see them again outside of their introductory work. They won't have much fanart, either. There's so much fanart for 2hu that you can get high off the moe almost indefinitely, and there's plenty of porn for them all, too. They aren't random at all, unless you're new to 2hu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322744
Is this a jam project reference.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322714
>Why fixate on these random ones?
A lot of the fandom is basically the equivalent of a "genwunner" from Pokemon. They've already imprinted on the group of characters that existed when they first got into Touhou/when it was the most popular in the west (~2004-2008, so Embodiment of Scarlet Devil through Subterranean Animism) and barring a few exceptions (think the Touhou equivalent of Lucario, Garchomp, Sylveon, etc) everything after SA is largely irrelevant to the western fandom, so that is why when you browse 4chan/nel you mostly see the girls from that era of games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322714
Part of character-centric fictions is to make up for feelings of loneliness and isolation, something that isn't unique to either NEETs or productive people, inb4. If you feel like there's either very few or no people you can completely trust and count on in real life, and very few or even none in real life that you feel like understand you, then in fiction, you can seek out characters who you wish you could know in real life, characters who understand what you're going through and have similar experiences, characters you can relate to. Surrogate personal contact, which is lost if you jump from one set of characters to another, pump and dump entertainment, like the people who see characters as little more than a story's puppets do.

[Anonymous No.]

cute little girls and the ero-doujins that follows

my favorite aspect is the fanmade music though, i love me some eastnewsounds or spacelectro remixes

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322801
明日を取り戻すんだ
「ＧＯＮＧ鳴らせ！！」
Gensou Shoujo Taisen ending at UFO was fucking painful to me, Miko is my favorite Touhou character ever and i really wanted to see GST's take on her.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322600
/thread. They also have good designs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20323703
Damn that girl is cute, what Touhou game is she from?

[Anonymous No.]

OP here, sorry, fell asleep. Hte massreplying, but it would be too impractical to do otherwise at this point
>>20322739
Ah, didn't know this since people almost always spam the same girls
>>20322755
It seems like a lot of people are into the characters more than the game itself, which I found odd due to the supposed lack of a canonical storyline. Should have specified this, my bad.
>>20322783
I guess what I meant by "random" was that they're a collection of decent but arguably typical moe designs, so it was hard for me to see why someone would prefer them over more nuanced character designs that cater to the more esoteric aspects of one's tastes, or how they see Touhou girls as different from the run-of-the-mill.
>>20322806
This explains a lot, thanks
>>20322816
This makes sense too. So instead of waifus, famuris?

[Anonymous No.]

I like the porn

[Anonymous No.]

>>20323953
A lot of Touhous have this weird, unique charm to them that stands out from other anime girls. They're all designed and drawn by one dude, who also does the music, level design, and programming of each game. The characters in Touhou aren't really designed to appeal to otakus, they have this weird doll vibe to their art. It's different from run-of-the-mill because you simply can't find character designs like Touhou anywhere else. Maybe its different because ZUN isn't really an artist.

They're definitely cute but you can't find something like pic related like anything else. Pic related is Reimu from the 11th Touhou game

[Anonymous No.]

The amazing spectacle of one very drunk man who somehow manages to get even worse at drawing the more he does it

[Anonymous No.]

>>20323953
>which I found odd due to the supposed lack of a canonical storyline
Not everyone is invested in Touhou lore, but there are certainly some who care enought about it, (ex >>20287443).
People like Touhou for different reasons.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20323953
>It seems like a lot of people are into the characters more than the game itself
As I'd wager most people get exposed to Touhou through means other than the games, they will usually try one of them and usually just give up since they're not exactly the easiest games out there.

Personally I found Touhou through music and I do play the games sometimes, got a few 1ccs on normal so nothing that impressive.

>>20324143
Someone needs to buy him a scanner.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20324057
Ah, the idiosyncrasies doesn't often seem to make it into the fanart, that is interesting. Sort of reminds me of the original Higurashi

[Anonymous No.]

>>20323713
東方金儲記 ~ Amusement of Miniature

[Anonymous No.]

>>20324057
>The characters in Touhou aren't really designed to appeal to otakus
That's like saying ZUN isn't an otaku and doesn't design them to appeal to himself. He obviously had a thing for feet and lolita doll/styles as well as young girls.

I also don't think ZUN's art is that special, but then I spend way, way more time playing doujin games than most of /jp/ or touhou fans, so I see all kinds of cute/shitty art from doujin groups. It's way better than a lot of VN art though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
The best word to describe Touhou would be “inspiring”. It inspires scores of doujins to be written, remixes to be produced, and fangames to be programmed. The games themselves are just roots, the community surrounding Touhou is what produces the real fruit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20325899
I meant most Touhou characters aren't designed like usual anime girls. Most of them don't show much skin, cleavage, etc. It's not like Kantai or anything dumb bullshit like that. ZUN def likes dolls and shit but it's probably just his aesthetic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20325859
Some fanart tries to imitate the style with varying degrees of success. But yeah the bulk of it is "off model"

[Anonymous No.]

>>20326257
>like usual anime girls.
>show much skin, cleavage, etc
You watch too much trash, not enough magical girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20326257
>>20326471
Also Kancer girls don't really show that much skin. You act like Touhou girls are muslims or something.

[Anonymous No.]

The huge number of fanworks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20323713
stop using reaction images on the jay, thank you

[Anonymous No.]

>>20326449
The most "Off-model" thing artfags do is draw huge tits on flat characters.

[Anonymous No.]

WaHH is kinda funny but other than that I only like AoCF

[Anonymous No.]

>>20328452
Shionfag detected. Consider suicide.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20328503
Actually a reimufag

[Anonymous No.]

>>20327123
Touhou reaction images aren't approved on the jay?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20329402
reaction images aren't really a thing here

[Anonymous No.]

>>20329402
You must be new here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20329402

[Anonymous No.]

>>20323713
ReimuWare: Touched!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322816
I'm not sure why the fuck you look for those kind of connections in something in Touhou. Considering how most of the characters are flawed anti heroes at best, literal sociopathic supernatural monsters at worst, with everything in between being pretty terrible people as well. I can't think of any Touhou character I would want to meet in real life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322783
It's also hard to emotionally connect with characters if they never change. Unless a actual story is being told, and characters change as a result, then the only thing you actually like is essentially a archetype.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322600
Came here to say this. Good job.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20331267
>It's also hard to emotionally connect with characters if they never change.
Why do you say that? Most humans don't actually experience major change but that doesn't prevent emotional connection. People fall in love with the Touhou characters based on their designs, backstories, music, interactions in canon, and/or depictions in doujin works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
I don't really know for sure. I really liked the pre-HM fighters a lot but due to circumstance don't get to play with others a lot. Danmaku bores me, honestly. It's not the games.

I guess for me it's the literature and the doujin scene that keeps me coming back. I learned japanese just so I could read more of them, and am now translating the ones I like so that other anons can enjoy what I've enjoyed too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
Music, story, characters, and surprisingly none of the standards of most anime type shit (no fanservice, no yuri, each thing about it has a generally very strange premise, the main characters are bad people, etc)

[Anonymous No.]

>>20323953
Observe the occasional (or more frequent) sort threads to see how many people like many different characters.

Reposts are just the way of 4chan

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
Fun, cute, soft.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
In a similar vein as Pokemon, 2hu appeals to the Autistic desire to collect and categorize information/process data that exists within all of us. We don't call ourselves /jp/sies for nothing.
t. Didn't start speaking until age four, used to make castles out of VHS tapes before my parents bought me legos, and studying Computer Engineering

[Anonymous No.]

>>20331701
Humans change constantly. Beside child raising and sex, one of the biggest appeals of marriage is growing old with somebody. Characters start to feel unreal, and stop being (For lack of a better description) human when they don't change and always remain the same.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20338005
Again, you're trying to place story as supreme and tying the ability to connect with characters to it, but I don't see it at all. People fall in love with unreachable ideals and concepts all the time, no 'humanity' required. Never-mind that this entire argument rests upon a false premise, that Touhou doesn't have any story to it and is merely an ensemble of characters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20331264
>I can't think of any Touhou character I would want to meet in real life
Fucked up people tend to end up with fucked up people. Fucked up people find fucked up people plenty relatable. Why do you think Eva's cast is so loved?
You a pure lore baka, it seems?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20338191
This is the true.
>>20338005
>characters start to feel unreal
Sounds like a lack of imagination desu ne. Who's to say they don't develop? Fuck, as somebody who spends the majority of time coming up with fiction bullshit, the idea of the characters not growing and developing alongside you is a solid sign that your characters would be a shit, if you went up the fiction route. Interaction with the 2hus via imagination, and reading/viewing/playing works that depict different interpretations of them, and trying to figure out what is true, what is not, what is debatable, about their character and self, is essentially surrogate hanging out or living together. It's like spending time around someone else, you can't not learn about them, even if you're just together five minutes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20334479
You mean cute and funny toehoes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20338191
Touhou has a story, but that story is little more than a method to introduce more characters. And while it's true that people fall in love with ideals and concepts all the time, characters are neither.

>>20338589
I'm a fucked up person. And I want to get away from other fucked up people. Like, there are Touhou characters I do genuinely like. But I wouldn't want to actually interact with any of them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20338606
I'm not going to excuse weaknesses in the writing with "Fanwork!". Touhou is a story, and I'm here to be entertained. I don't want to establish some kind of weird surrogate friend relationship with a cast made up mostly of sociopaths and assholes. This has nothing to do with a lack of imagination either, if I wanted to use my imagination there are thousands of other far more productive things I could be doing with my time than reading/watching/playing Touhou fan content.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
The gameplay is the main appeal to me (controlling a flying girl instead of a spaceship in a bullet hell with a priority on esthetic patterns), and the fanservice is almost inexistant, which is a good thing for me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20343815
>there are thousands of other far more productive things I could be doing with my time than reading/watching/playing Touhou fan content
Nobody force you, bye.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20343815
>I don't want to establish some kind of weird surrogate relationship with characters
this is the point of about 90% of otaku media

[Anonymous No.]

>>20343815
>Touhou is a story
Uhhh, no. Touhou is a videogame series first.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20343815
Different strokes for different folks. Do you prefer to turn your brain off when consuming entertainment? Not bait, genuine question.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20343857
That still doesn't change my criticism of Touhou as a story.

>>20343876
That's why I don't like most Otaku media. I also don't view Touhou as Otaku media because I don't actually think that's what it's trying to accomplish.

>>20343990
I would say it's a excuse for making music even before it's a video games series. Nonetheless, as a story I want to be entertained.

>>20344138
I do not. But I also don't watch/read stories to imagine character development. If I wanted to use my imagination, I would just use my imagination. Preferably in a way that I could actually sell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344170
>it's a excuse for making music even before it's a video games series
It is. Still if you want to be mainly entertained play the games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344246
Is it really that weird that I expect to be entertained when I read canon Touhou works?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322714
The games have enough of what could be called a passible coherent story to give enough for the fanbase to do fuck all with.There are a lot of lose events that occur that are strung together which the fanbase can, and does fill in all the time. For that reason it is easy for anyone to pick up imagine something and plot it down without "wow u retard thats not cannon fuckwad", so long as you write something half decent.

Also cute girls, challenging yet fun games, and a ton of good music.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344280
Those works are mainly world building and character interaction. Again play the games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
Sure I myself like the gameplay, world building and music that ZUN does, but I personally find its themes in Japanese folklore and religion interesting, because I did not know a lot about them before Touhou. Sure there are lots of other media to learn about them, but Touhou is the best one with cute girls. This next thing is actually pretty weird, but Touhou actually made me learn more about my own country's folklore, since I became more interested in it after seeing Zun's interpretation of his culture's folklore. So nowadays Touhou holds a bit of a "special place" in my heart, although I have become less interested in the series.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344311
To add on,

Touhou works because unlike some other series Zun struck gold and did what not many do and took a hands off approach. By doing this you allow the fanbase to go fuck all with it, while all you need to do is write a minimal story backbone for whoever or what ever to fill in. Had Zun clamped down on his works, touhou would probably stopped after the first few games easily. There are a few similar fanbases out there were the creator just lets the fans run with it, and they tend to live on long and hard inbetween actual creator content.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344170
I'm not really sure I get your criticism. What exactly is it? That the story is thin/the characters don't develop?

Largely Touhou is episodic to the games, slice of life or mystery to the manga. All but mystery are pretty cut and dry you like it or you don't. That said the storylines of recent games have been pretty compelling, but even if earlier ones were often straightforward that doesn't make them bad in any way. A story doesn't need to be more than simple in order to be good.

As for character, there's nothing wrong with static ones. Lets ignore the youkai in the series for the most part, as youkai being consistently youkai is what MAKES them youkai. Look at Reimu and Marisa, then. Marisa actually does go through changes, and although she's rather silly shows herself to be the more mature/responsible of the two over time. As for Reimu unironically what makes her interesting is that she's static. I'll never really get why "character development always good" is a common opinion. Reimu's character being firm, unyieldingly "her" is both the source of her strength and the source of her appeal. She's an uncompromising person based on her own values and judgments. Well, largely uncompromising. It's amusing and compelling because it's weird. Reimu is INCREDIBLY weird, when you look at the fact that her worldview is "keep the world as it is" even though that definitely means "keep humanity oppressed/youkai satisfied". At least to a degree, the real idea is the push and pull balance of their world. Maybe she just wants to keep fantasy alive, but at any rate she does as she feels she must above all else.

That said no, character development isn't much of a thing in Touhou and I don't see why it ought to be to prove quality or to prove it as interesting or something. A shitload of characters are incredibly interesting. At least one legitimately shows significant and subtle development over real time years, turning from a standoffish cunt to a heroic figure willing to defy her master not out of cowardice as before, but out of a sense of moral obligation to her new home (Reisen).

If you want to examine even one character, even from early in the series, who is extremely complex but hasn't changed since her appearance: look at Ibuki Suika. Essentially once upon a time one of Gensokyo's four queens, led an exodus out of the land because her people were being slaughtered by humans (crafting an excuse that oni were simply bored with Gensokyo, although narration confirms the issue was with humanity's lying), but after spending an age forgotten she returns to the aboveground despite having left allegedly tragically because she wants to bring her people BACK to Gensokyo, and her outlook is incredibly positive, but perhaps rather naive (I'll throw a huge party and hopefully the other oni will come back to the surface with me). All of this is conveyed in a single game, even though on the surface she's just "drunk oni loli".

This isn't even getting into why characters are just amusing or entertaining without complication, such as the massive dork that everyone makes fun of: Youmu, or the unapologetic brat Tenshi. It's a shit ton of personalities you don't see often, executed amusingly, regularly thought about more than you would've assumed for a drunkard to have done, and yeah.

Touhou is neat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344324
Character interactions should lead to some kind of development. It's not too much to ask, at least I think so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20329874
I wish other smaller boards discouraged greentext even a little.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344429
Touhou manga are not shounen or whatever you want them to be. They are supplementary material for the videogame series. Play the games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322783
>you can get high off the moe
Please don't off moe. You will get it banned and regulated for us moderate, responsible users, too. Imagine how embarrassing it is going to be to get a moe prescription.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344429
Touhou manga and the like is simply just really well crafted fanfiction for all purposes. Some though are more accepted than others by the community as being close to cannon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344429
>Character interactions should lead to some kind of development.
... No.

Why? What makes you say that? Why can't they simply be amusing or pleasant?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344459
Silly anon, it's a metaphorical high.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344441
This. The absolute state of /his/ nowadays is that many people don't even care to construct a coherent argument, and just mindlessly greentext other's sentences while posting brainlet-wojaks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344441
/bant/ is probably the largest board that has some kind of anti-memetext ethos, albeit eclectically.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344429
>Character interactions should lead to some kind of development

There is already some kind of development when some characters interact. For example, when Reimu beat a yokai, their relationship can evolve. And she defeated so many yokais now her shrine is often visited by those she vanquished inthe past.
Relationship between some characters also evolve in the mangas.
Not him but you should really play the game or read the manga, you can't criticize accurately if you don't know what is Touhou.

But ultimately, i don't think character development is required anyways, even more so when most characters are deities and crazy spirits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344359
Character development is the glue that ties together the disparate elements of story and character. Without it, the entire plot is little more than "stuff happening". And while I agree that the main storyline is getting more interesting and there is some character development from time to time, Touhou does fall into just being "stuff happening" pretty often.

I do agree that there is nothing wrong with a character being static. But even that should cause some kind of effect on other people. Like, fine, we've established that Reimu is both a terrible person and completely uncompromising in being terrible. Now actually have that affect the people around her. Have the few decent people that she befriended abandon her. Have the Human Villagers slowly turn against her. Have the people that remain friendly grow more and more sinister in nature. If Reimu is going to remain completely static, at least have that static nature affect everybody around her. Otherwise we're just watching a unlikeable bitch being an unlikeable bitch. Even that could theoretically work if it was played for black comedy, but that's pretty obviously not the intention.

And yes, characters can be complex even without any development. But without having that complexity affect either themselves of the people around it, it doesn't really matter. It's all just window dressing for a story that is little more than "stuff happening".

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344455
I do, sometimes. And I get that the Touhou manga are just supplementary material. But I do still expect to be entertained when reading them.

>>20344472
It's not just really well crafted fanfiction. Unless you seriously think even the authors work is just really well crafted fanfiction.

>>20344534
Because without development the story is little more than "stuff happening" and the characters are little more than unreal eternal walking archetypes. And, feel free to disagree me with on this, that just doesn't make for a very appealing story. Especially one that does actually take itself somewhat serious at times.

>>20346363
There is some development, I won't pretend to claim otherwise. But it's not much, and never for the characters that could use it the most.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20346443
>a story that is little more than "stuff happening".
This is the only requirement of any story. Not every story has to say something, or be some character study, or anything really. This just seems like finding "fault" in what you personally don't enjoy, whereas it can be argued almost the entire conceit of Touhou is an air of aimlessness within a queer and deadly world. There's a difference between saying "it's not for me" and saying "that just doesn't make for a very appealing story" (statement, objective).

I wouldn't say Touhou is beyond criticism, of course, but I don't see how this is criticism instead of raw opinion. I guess you could argue no criticism is objective and it's always opinion but I dunno. I have problems with some Touhou things (like how FS ends, for instance--it's a weak execution of a promise of the consistent themes the manga discussed/explored/etc) but I feel like what I'd critique of it isn't really based on my personal taste. The ending of FS feels like it's executed poorly and you can draw on earlier chapters and the words from narration/characters to argue that, that kind of thing is what I would call critical.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20346443
>have that affect the people around her. Have the few decent people that she befriended abandon her. Have the Human Villagers slowly turn against her. Have the people that remain friendly grow more and more sinister in nature.
There's no reason for that. Part of Touhou's appeal is that it's simultaneously goofy as fuck while being set in a literal murder grinder for humans.

Also the point of her being eternal, and the Hakurei Maiden being eternal, serves to the idea of Gensokyo being a "paradise", just not a paradise for man, however the only true reason it's a paradise for youkai is due to machinations of man in the end--their belief, their fear, and Reimu's enforcing of that world order.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20346532
That's a very shallow view of Touhou. There is quite a bit there, and it is pretty obviously trying to say something. Accordingly, I don't think it's raw opinion to criticize the story for lacking in development when I do think it's trying to accomplish something more than just being "Stuff happening".

That's one of the reasons why I think the earlier games are far more successful narratively. They aren't trying to be anything more than stuff happening, and accordingly Gensokyo is a much happier place. Meanwhile, the pc-98 games are just a straight up bizarro wonderland and do a excellent job at being that. The newer games try to have a more complex world and story, but they just don't really deliver because of a lack of development tying the disparate elements of plot and character together.

Also, I do kind of agree with the notion that all criticism is subjective. But i'll also acknowledge that some criticism is "better" than others. Obviously, I think my own criticism is better than most. But, well, feel free to disagree with me on that.

>>20346546
I don't think 99% of the fanbase views that as part of Touhou's appeal. Especially considering how many just flat out deny it. I personally view it as part of the appeal, but I do still think characters being terrible people should have some kind of a effect on others. Reimu is a selfish horrible bitch, and the few good people in Gensokyo should treat her accordingly. Yukari is a sociopathic child murdering monster of a woman, and most good people in Gensokyo DO actually treat her accordingly. It's not hard, you see.

And yes, I get that's the idea behind the Hakurei Shrine Maidens. That still doesn't change the fact that all of them, probably including Reimu, are horrible selfish monsters that are willing to let thousands of people die to maintain their own privileged position. They are humanities evil incarnate in the same way Yukari is Youkai's evil incarnate. Accordingly, I want them all to die horribly and have their name become synonymous with evil itself. Because that's the kind of development that turns a boring story about "stuff happening" into something actually memorable and good.

[Anonymous No.]

So if OP is there, people are interested because there are many canonical mediums of touhou like the manga's or the novel's or the SHMUP'S or Fighter's. In addition to this there is development in the various different character's we see, such as while Reimu is fairly static there are actual consequences to these actions, such as the fact of her laziness involving of literally everything else but her job leaves her constantly destitute and nearly dies multiple times for the dumbest reasons, also her shrine almost never gets humans because she doesn't bother to punt youkai off her lawn and humans rightly do not go anywhere near that place on fear of various things such as getting eaten by something. There's development slowly going on but touhou is the type of series where it's not blatantly telling you and you simply have to notice what is said and done.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20346601
>That's a very shallow view of Touhou
Not really. If we're only talking about the storylines most of them are as simple as strong monsters causing trouble, and someone who doesn't give a fuck beats them with fireworks.

Which is also the point, because a lot of the time even as early as IN there are intricate reasons behind why the final bosses are doing whatever they're doing, but the protagonists merely want to keep the status quo and don't care about anything else. Their dialogue is usually very to the point. Essentially "fuck off, stop", and then they fight. Which is indeed what I'm saying: "an air of aimlessness within a queer and deadly world". The protagonists are largely considered with dinner, relaxing, and tea, although their world is violent and dangerous.

I think you also give Reimu too much shit, unrelated to whether or not I think your critique is good (I rather don't, no offense). For what it's worth the humans who do live in Gensokyo are almost universally satisfied with how it works, and there were agreements among humans AND youkai to ultimately make Gensokyo the way it is today. It wasn't Reimu's call, and she consistently refers to what she does as a job first and foremost--a duty. She's bound to what she has to do, and if anything has provided means for the world to be a lot more decent since she took the reins at the Shrine (the spell card rules). She looks the other way when outsiders come in and die and don't make it to her in time to escape, but to her that's nature, and she has no reason to change it. She has no higher motivations and isn't really heroic, but she doesn't have to be and shouldn't really be criticized for it. Gensokyo keeps the last remnants of fantasy alive in basically the world, and there's worth in that, even if its continued existence requires some terrorizing of humans and a bit of eating flesh

[Anonymous No.]

>>20346625
>considered with
concerned with*

[Anonymous No.]

You nerds seriously needs to accept that Touhou ain't changing. Yes, Touhou is mainly videogames and music series. No, ZUN will never change Gensokyo into generic western fantasy shite. Yes, Reimu will continue to be number 1 in popularity pools. The sooner you accept that the better for you.

[Anonymous No.]

Touhou doesn't need character development. Put yourself in ZUN's shoes. It's about balancing sarcastic genocidal shrine maidens/ ordinary magicians with meaningful displays of music and danmaku. Touhou Is literally a tech demo of ZUN's creativity in each specific year. critical commentary is unavailable , but if OP is reading this, I suggest just go play the game and don't assume stanley kubrick directed it. Play perfect cherry blossom or EoSD and just enjoy the stupidly beautiful and genius humor between Reimu and youkai.
Come back and tell us your favorite part and favorite song. I'll be there to listen. And never judge or be mean. /jp/ is peak human interaction , and our vehicle to use interaction is the idea of a teenage shrine maiden indiscriminately beating up lolis and phantom gardeners. Welcome to Touhou , welcome to peak performance.

[Anonymous No.]

Not only at OP but to all you kids:
If you've not read the official literature, please go do that.
There's a lot of characterization you'll never see otherwise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20346625
That's also a very shallow view of Touhou. It's like saying the Lord Of the Rings is only about two midgets carrying a ring. That Citizen Kane is only about a guy looking for a sled. There's a lot more under the hood than you seem to think.

The reasons why the villains do what they do tends to change pretty dramatically depending on the game. Neither MoF, TD, and UFO even had the villains trying to do anything. Quite a few times they don't so much defend the status quo, as much as just blunder onto somebody whose arrival has already changed it.

The idea that Humans are universally satisfied with how it works is based on nothing. Multiple Human Villagers have been shown as being dissatisfied enough with the way Gensokyo works to risk their life. And no villager has ever been shown preferring life in Gensokyo over the outside world. To the contrary, even. They've been portrayed as consistently being interested in the outside world. And it was Reimu, or at least one of the Hakurei Shrine Maiden's, call to make Gensokyo what it is today. It was only because of her permission, or at least will full compliance, that Yukari was able to implement the spellcard system. Which hasn't really done anything to improve life for the average villager, expect make sure that Youkai can cause trouble without any serious consequences to themselves.

Reimu has both the power and means to make a positive difference in Gensokyo and save countless lives, but chooses not to do anything because it would affect her perfect little life of privilege and power. She's the Gensokyo equivalent of a white southern girl looking at a plantage of slaves. And instead of viewing it as the injustice it is, decides she might as well beat one of the slaves half to death for fun. She's the Gensokyo equivalent of a Nazi collaborator, happily hunting down jews if it means the occupying Germans are kinder towards her. Unless she's just too stupid to realise how evil the nature of her job actually is, which is actually possible, then she is scum of the highest order. And like the two examples I mentioned above, terrible things should happen to her.

Also, Youkai don't need to eat human flesh or even terrorise people. It's only because of scumbags like Yukari and Reimu that they still resort to such methods instead of just accepting that times have changed and changing their behaviour like countless Youkai have.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20346647
Touhou has changed all the time. ZUN is about as retcon happy as your average comic book publisher, and even less subtle about it. Give it a few years, and I doubt Gensokyo still resembles the place it was shown to be in FS and WaHH.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20346876
>don't assume stanley kubrick directed it
What would 2hu as directed by Stanley Kubrick look like?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20348577
If you think Sakuya's time stop was retconned you really need to re-evaluate your context reading skills

[Anonymous No.]

>>20348755
No. I don't think Sakuya's time stop was a retcon. And even if it was, it's far from the worst offender.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20325899
>I see all kinds of cute/shitty art from doujin groups
If it's from the mid-00s or later, it's probably influenced by ZUN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20331264
>I can't think of any Touhou character I would want to meet in real life.
There are safety reasons why you wouldn't want to meet the youkai, but why would you not meet the humans if you could?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20343815
>I don't want to establish some kind of weird surrogate friend relationship with a cast made up mostly of sociopaths and assholes.
What are you doing on 4channel?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20350198
Finding a place to talk about Touhou and other stupid shit I like.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20348571
>That's also a very shallow view of Touhou. It's like saying the Lord Of the Rings is only about two midgets carrying a ring. That Citizen Kane is only about a guy looking for a sled. There's a lot more under the hood than you seem to think.
Jesus Christ it's just giving the basic premise, you dunce. I'm not getting into ZUN's views on philosophy or his obsession with mythology or his interest in developing storyline through gameplay or anything, I'm giving the basics of the basics

[Anonymous No.]

>>20348571
>Multiple Human Villagers have been shown as being dissatisfied enough with the way Gensokyo works to risk their life.
No, not at all. Go ahead and prove me wrong because the only people who have thought about changing how Gensokyo works were mocked by other villagers for being ridiculous

[Anonymous No.]

>>20348571#
>Multiple Human Villagers have been shown as being dissatisfied enough with the way Gensokyo works to risk their life.
No, not at all. Go ahead and prove me wrong because the only people who have thought about changing how Gensokyo works were mocked by other villagers for being ridiculous

RE your shit about Reimu. One Reimu is not invincible and part of the reason spell card rules were developed were because youkai could not defeat her without killing her and ruining everything. If Reimu wanted to change how the world worked fundamentally, youkai could easily kill her, even despite her most bullshit of powers, and install a more in-line person to keep order. Further she is one girl, and could never save literally everyone who needs saving. This is like believing because you have a gun, a license to carry, and a license to kill, you should go around saving everyone you can because YOU have the power to stop ALL violence, as long as you can make it in time and risk your life for total strangers. Only because you have power.

You're completely insane if you think she has an obligation to rescue everyone. Even letting people die is no worse or better than what most people do because we can't be there for everyone all the time. Outsiders enter, outsiders die, she helps if they can find her, but she can't be zipping and zooping to every dark corner of the world to rescue people MAYBE, And again, if she wanted to completely ruin youkai's hold on mankind in Gensokyo, she could simply be dealt with and in the context of Gensokyo as we know it, this would basically be a meaningless resistance with hardly any support from the humans she would intend to "save". This is a matter brought up by Keine and the entirety of Symposium. The order established now, the relatively safe life Reimu enforces for natives, is the order most want.

Your view is not Gensokyo's view, it's the view of a handful of mocked dissenters within the setting, and again I would just love to see you attempt to become a superhero and change the entirety of Gensokyo with yourself in Reimu's position, and with Reimu's power, because there are several enemies you would have to face who would destroy you instantaneously, and replace you easily.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20350497
>>20348571
Oh no no no NOT THIS FUCKING ARGUMENT AGAIN!

[Anonymous No.]

>>20348571
>There's a lot more under the hood than you seem to think.
>>20346625
>a lot of the time even as early as IN there are intricate reasons behind why the final bosses are doing whatever they're doing

?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
the girls are cute, the music is so good it spawned a subculture, ZUN's writing is funny, and there's new material to follow

[Anonymous No.]

Are humans okay with the state of Gensokyo?
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Part_1
ctrl+f
>My first impression of Gensokyo, besides the fact that there are youkai who cause harm to mankind, is that the minds of humans are capricious and easily swayed.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bohemian_Archive_in_Japanese_Red/Keine
>"It's deplorable that some humans have forgotten their fear of youkai and are trying to drive them out of Gensokyo. Currently, there is a state of balance between the humans and the youkai here.

tl;dr Yeah, pretty much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20350497
>Go ahead and prove me wrong because the only people who have thought about changing how Gensokyo works were mocked by other villagers for being ridiculous
I don't remember that happening. If anything, the Human Villagers have been pretty welcome to any changes.

>One Reimu is not invincible
She pretty much is. Her ability is game breaking to a extent that nobody in Gensokyo would be able to stand a chance against her. The only possible exception being the sages. At the very least, her privileged position and massive network of friends and allies would allow her to make a lot of positive changes if she tried. She could go to Yukari and tell her to stop abducting people and spying on the Human Villagers. Failing that, she could use her influence to save as many people as possible.

She might not be all powerful, and she would lose if she kickstarted a rebellion without enough support. But she is VERY powerful and VERY influential, Akyuu even flat out says the Hakurei Shrine Maidens pretty much have Gensokyo under their thumb. I don't expect her to change Gensokyo, but I do expect it to make it a better place using the tools she has available to her. That she refuses to do this, and actually enforces the awful status quo, is the reason why she's terrible.

>The order established now, the relatively safe life Reimu enforces for natives, is the order most want.
It's the order most Youkai want. What the Human Villagers want is every Youkai to die, the barrier to fall, and for them all to return to the Outside world to live happily. That most Humans are too terrified and powerless to actually try to implement this and are instead just trying to live out their miserable lives to the best of their ability is understandable, if unfortunate.

>I would just love to see you attempt to become a superhero and change the entirety of Gensokyo with yourself in Reimu's position, and with Reimu's power, because there are several enemies you would have to face who would destroy you instantaneously, and replace you easily.
If I was Reimu. What I would do is try to change Gensokyo to the best of my ability using the tools available to me, play the game of politics and all that. If I could accumulate enough power, allies, and influence to kick start a rebellion, I would if i thought that simply changing the system wasn't sufficient.

>>20350534
I'm talking about under the hood storywise. Not simply "Touhou has a complex backstory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20350579
I'm not sure why the first quote, even in its entirety, is proof that Humans are happy in Gensokyo. If anything, it shows that they are basically without hope and any believe that the future might get better. Just trying to get by without falling to despair.

Meanwhile, the state of Humans and Youkai hasn't been balanced for almost a decade. The Human Villagers used to be pretty capable, at the very least having a large amount of Youkai exterminators living. But that's been completely retconed in favour of them being utterly powerless and oppressed, as shown by FS and Symposium.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20350497
>Go ahead and prove me wrong because the only people who have thought about changing how Gensokyo works were mocked by other villagers for being ridiculous
I don't remember that happening. If anything, the Human Villagers have been pretty welcome to any changes.

>One Reimu is not invincible
She pretty much is. Her ability is overpowered to a extent that nobody in Gensokyo would be able to stand a chance against her. The only possible exception being the sages, who probably have some kind of a kill switch anyway. At the very least, her privileged position and massive network of friends and allies would allow her to make a lot of positive changes if she tried. She could go to Yukari and tell her to stop abducting people and spying on the Human Villagers. Failing that, she could use her influence to save as many people as possible.

She might not be all powerful, and she would lose if she kickstarted a rebellion without a LOT of support. But she is VERY powerful and VERY influential, Akyuu even flat out says the Hakurei Shrine Maidens pretty much have Gensokyo under their thumb. I don't expect her to change Gensokyo, but I do expect it to make it a better place using the tools she has available to her. That she refuses to do this, and actually enforces the awful status quo, is the reason why she and the other Hakurei Shrine Maidens are evil incarnate.

>The order established now, the relatively safe life Reimu enforces for natives, is the order most want.
It's the order most Youkai want. What the Human Villagers want is for every Youkai to die, the barrier to fall, and for all of them to return to the outside world. That most villagers are too terrified and powerless to actually try to implement this and are instead just trying to live out their miserable lives to the best of their ability is understandable, if unfortunate.

>I would just love to see you attempt to become a superhero and change the entirety of Gensokyo with yourself in Reimu's position, and with Reimu's power, because there are several enemies you would have to face who would destroy you instantaneously, and replace you easily.
If I was Reimu. What I would do is try to change Gensokyo to the best of my ability using the tools available to me, play the game of politics and all that. If I could accumulate enough power, allies, and influence to kick start a rebellion, I would if i thought that simply changing the system wasn't sufficient. Otherwise, I would make sure the next Hakurei Shrine Maiden continues where I leave off.

>>20350534
I'm talking about under the hood symbolism and themes. Not simply "Touhou has a complex backstory".

[Anonymous No.]

>>20350579
I'm not sure why the first quote, even in its entirety, is proof that Humans are happy in Gensokyo. If anything, it shows that they are basically without hope or believe that the future might get better and are just trying to get by without falling to despair.

Meanwhile, the state of Humans and Youkai hasn't been balanced for almost a decade. The Human Villagers used to be pretty capable, at the very least having a large amount of Youkai exterminators living. But that's been completely retconned in favour of them being utterly powerless and oppressed, as shown by FS and Symposium.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20352489
>oppressed
how

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
Cute girls, nice music, comfy setting and freedom to make secondary/tertiary fanworks.
Man, ZUN is really a saint to tolerate all that Cookie shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20352489
>But that's been completely retconned in favour of them being utterly powerless and oppressed, as shown by FS and Symposium.

In the official mangas, the humans are everything but oppressed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20352914
They literally aren't even allowed to have a leader or make major decisions for themselves. That's oppression in its most purest form.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20353064
Yes. Like that time Aya made it absolutely clear that multiple groups of Youkai are trying to seize control of the human village to make sure they could never have a ruler. Or that time Yukari revealed she was spying on the Human Villagers to make sure they "Don't do anything bad". Or the fact that the Human Villagers are all essentially trapped in Gensokyo with no way to leave.

Totally no oppression going on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20353068
>>20353077

Human are manipulated, not oppressed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20353077
By that logic being here makes you oppressed too because you need fill that sweet google captcha.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20353086
They aren't being manipulated into not having a leader or manipulated in being spied upon.

>>20353118
I'm not oppressed upon because 1: I have a leader that represents me to some degree. 2: I can go where I want to go. 3: While I am being spied upon, that's not because i'm human.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322714
>Don't you guys get tired of the same girls over the years (waifus aside)? I mean, with manga or VN, you get a new batch of relevant girls with every title. Why fixate on these random ones?
Why should I take you seriously.
Why would you want another flavor of the month bunch every fucking release.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20352489
>I'm not sure why the first quote, even in its entirety, is proof that Humans are happy in Gensokyo.
"Those who live there all live in prosperity and peace, and this is because there is a culture that humans and the long-living youkai have constructed."

[Anonymous No.]

>>20353068
They're allowed to, they don't want one

[Anonymous No.]

>>20353207
> While I am being spied upon, that's not because i'm human
Don't know why did you formule that sentence like that. I don't think Google or anyone else cares. Anyway.

You can see humans and youkai being together and coexisting with no problems.
You can join whatever faction you want and noone will prohibits you anything.
You're basically allowed to do anything as long as you don't break common laws. Although if you beat and rape the shit out of fairies I don't think anyone would care.
Also Gensokyo have enough loops. If you're smart or dedicated you can easily exploit them. Mind you, if you're smart unlike a certain bumbass.
Before you start dropping names like Akyuu
and PMiSS I would like to remind you that Akyuute spice up those texts to max and pulling facts from her ass making Aya looking like a journalism saint in comparsion.

Just curious, where are you from because as someone who lives in eastern Europe your image of oppression is hillarious as hell.

[Anonymous No.]

leave and dont come back, yes im talking to (You)

[Anonymous No.]

>>20353246
>"Those who live there all live in prosperity and peace, and this is because there is a culture that humans and the long-living youkai have constructed."
Where is that quote from? PMISS?

>>20353254
They aren't allowed to. Read Forbidden scrollery, Aya makes that pretty explicit.

>>20353400
>You can see humans and youkai being together and coexisting with no problems.
Some Humans and some Youkai can coexist. Certainly not all of them.

>You can join whatever faction you want and noone will prohibits you anything.
That's because those factions are the only ones allowed to exist. Any actual dangerous group would be crushed outright.

>You're basically allowed to do anything as long as you don't break common laws.
There are no laws, only mob justice. That's what tends to happen when you don't have a leader. The closest thing Gensokyo has to laws are the once established by the Youkai sages, and you'll be murdered if you break any of those.

>your image of oppression is hillarious as hell.
If you don't view not having a leader, constant surveillance, and being executed without trial as oppression. Then whatever country you live in must really, REALLY suck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20354226
>If you don't view not having a leader as oppression. Then whatever country you live in must really, REALLY suck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7qT-C-0ajI

[Anonymous No.]

>>20354226
>They aren't allowed to. Read Forbidden scrollery, Aya makes that pretty explicit.
Aya has never said anything about forbidding a human leader and to my knowledge the subject was only brought up in Symposium where it was decided no leader would be preferred, but not disallowed.

You'll need pages. I read FS, and don't remember anything about Aya saying what was and wasn't allowed in the human village, only that youkai were vying for control over it.

[Anonymous No.]

What’s the name of THAT doujin with the condoms?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20354226
>Where is that quote from? PMISS?
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN's_reply_to_messages_on_the_former_Gensou_Bulletin_Board_3

[Anonymous No.]

>>20346601
>>20348571
>>20352478
Oh boy, it's humanity fuck yeah again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20357555
"Humanity fuck yeah" is a mental disease.
Who is better, lame-os who can't do jack shit other than crafting sharp sticks and charging to one other, or mythical creatures with swish swoosh bullets and weird hair colors?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20357940
But you see, it was humanity that created those mythical creatures.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20357940
>Who is better
I mean, the issue isn't about that at all, but ok.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20356665
Also, even in Synopsium it was pointed out that the Humans are essentially ruled by Youkai that try to make sure no leader would ever stand up.

>>20355250
Cute. Although, not to advocate for monarchies, but even a leader decided by watery tarts lying in ponds is better than what the Human Villagers have.

>>20357041
That message was written years ago, when Gensokyo was still genuinely a paradise because most Human Villagers were pretty badass as well. Things have changed considerably since then, and not for the better.

>>20357940
The people that have conquered the world and can blow it up with a single press of a button

[Anonymous No.]

anyone who doesn't say the music is a dumb secondary.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20358460
>That message was written years ago, when Gensokyo was still genuinely a paradise because most Human Villagers were pretty badass as well.
Contemporary Gensokyo was never full of badass villagers. The human village has consistently for the last sixteen years featured a passable standard of living combined with a lack of political autonomy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
fun games
fun plot
fun girls

[Anonymous No.]

>>20358543
Nonsense, both PCB and PMISS make it clear that the Human Villagers had plenty of capable members that could equal almost any Youkai. And any lack of political autonomy only started around UFO and HM.

Also, what the fuck do you mean with passable standards of living? By the standards of 1890 Japan, perhaps. But by most modern standards it's about on the same level as North Korea.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20358605
>Nonsense, both PCB and PMISS make it clear that the Human Villagers had plenty of capable members that could equal almost any Youkai.
They did not.

>Also, what the fuck do you mean with passable standards of living?
I mean by the standards of a Japanese person living in the year 2003, when ZUN wrote that the people in the village lived in peace and prosperity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20358605
>Nonsense, both PCB and PMISS make it clear that the Human Villagers had plenty of capable members that could equal almost any Youkai.

"but a brave warrior would occasionally rise to defeat them. Some of those brave humans settled in Gensokyo to keep close watch on the youkai."
If you read the PCB prologue this happens before Gensokyo is sealed also it never says the village is full of badasses just that some warriors settled down im gensokyo and create civilization.
By the way there's nothing stopping a human from learning magic and beating up youkai and I wouldn't be surprised if most humans can beat low tier youkai

[Anonymous No.]

>>20358674
It does actually pretty explicitly say that the people that founded the Human Village were all pretty big baddasses. More importantly however, from the same prologue:
>So, why is Gensokyo a paradise for humans if they have to live with youkai? Well, that's because when everyone has enough power to defeat youkai in combat, and that's anything but boring!

>By the way there's nothing stopping a human from learning magic and beating up youkai and I wouldn't be surprised if most humans can beat low tier youkai
Again, that did actually seem to be the case in PMISS. But it's pretty obviously not true anymore in the Human Village as portrayed in FS, WaHH and Symposium.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20358460
Your image just proves that it's not forbidden or disallowed. If anything, the image proves that they expect humans to get a leader and only wish to stop them before it inevitably happens.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344441
>>20345513
>>20345614
I wonder how it came to be that /jp/ is the only 4chan board that is still vehemently against greentexting, while all the other boards have succumbed to it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322714
Because Touhou is a beautiful vision of a purer world, while much of anime is tainted by the expectations and desires of modern society. This is also why much of /jp/ despises idol threads.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20359502
Old culture and copying from Japanese counterparts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20358605
>North Korea
Stop being retarded. The villagers are definitely not malnourished and starving. Their children aren’t conscripted into military service, and they don’t get sent to gulags for wrongthink. A more apt comparison would be to the Amish, mostly late 1800s tech level with some sprinkling of modern, surrounded by modern society / youkai but able to live most of their lives in peace and even have some dealings with outsiders.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20359208
You do realize that "Youkai don't want something to happen and are trying to put a stop to it" is oppression in a land where Youkai run the show, right?

>>20359805
Poor villagers are almost certainly malnourished and overworked. And as was the case in most pre modern societies, most people are almost certainly poor farmers. I'll grant you the lack of military conscriptions, but they do get killed without trial if they break the rules and are constantly being spied upon by the Youkai secret police. And I doubt the place has anything resembling a law system, meaning mob justice is the norm. I don't think North Korea is a particularly out there comparison.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20359502
Personally, I use /bant/ more than /jp/, and I've only found with time that the epic inner-monologue greeny memies are extremely irritating and derivative attempts at "4chan culture." It becomes real fucking retarded when they're most-known for being glorified exaggerated blogposts to be screencapped, saved, and spread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
I got into it because I liked the music a lot and found the deepest parts of the lore quite interesting.

Others get into it for the cute girls, it appeals to everyone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20357940
>Who is better, lame-os who can't do jack shit other than crafting sharp sticks and charging to one other, or mythical creatures with swish swoosh bullets and weird hair colors?
The race that became the dominant species and forced the other to hide in a magical land to avoid extinction is clearly the superior race.

The fact that Gensokyo is even a thing is the biggest proof of Youkai's loss in the evolutionary war.

Reality warping meme powers/abilities, magic and pretty bullet patterns could only take Youkai so far.

[Anonymous No.]

>Who is better, lame-os who can't do jack shit other than crafting sharp sticks and charging to one other, or mythical creatures with swish swoosh bullets and weird hair colors?
The race that became the dominant species and forced the other to hide in a magical land to avoid extinction is clearly the superior race.
The fact that Gensokyo is even a thing is the biggest proof of Youkai's loss in the evolutionary war.
Reality warping meme powers/abilities, magic and pretty bullet patterns could only take Youkai so far.

[Anonymous No.]

touho is like pokemon but with lolis

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
Cute girls doing gay stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20362386
when is the mobile game coming out?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20360291
Suppression, maybe. Oppression, no.

Further yeah you're up your own ass in headcanon so this is pointless. Poverty and other sorts of issues have never been mentioned. For one thing, it's only one village, supported by essentially an entire country of beings that need them alive and well. So no
>Poor villagers are almost certainly malnourished and overworked.
what the fuck are you talking about
>And I doubt the place has anything resembling a law system, meaning mob justice is the norm.
In the few times actual crimes have been committed we saw a dine and dasher get chased out of a restaurant and attempt pay what he owed, a person who killed his horses and turned youkai executed by law enforcement, and another human youkai executed. We also saw a youkai executed for basically possessing a shoe. Human criminals haven't been shown or mentioned at all, except in a story where they were all outsiders, and all killed outside of the village.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20360992
it's not really about which is tougher, youkai simply need humans to survive

[Anonymous No.]

>>20358460
>>20358605
>>20358785
I'm getting the feeling I know exactly who you are at this point. If humanity fuck yeah anon is the same as Touhou has a bad story anon is the same as humans actually used to be really powerful guys anon, that would be pretty convenient.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20362688
That was meant for
>>20357940

[Anonymous No.]

>>20362674
Suppression of political freedoms, like having a leader for your community, is oppression.

>Poverty and other sorts of issues have never been mentioned.
Pre modern standards of living means pre modern standards of living. Not pre modern standards of living but without any poverty.

>what the fuck are you talking about
That was the norm for urist mc peasant for pretty much all of human history. And unless stated otherwise, the norm for poor people in the Human Village.

>Human criminals haven't been shown or mentioned at all,
That doesn't mean they don't exist. Again, pre modern standards of living means pre modern standards of living. Not pre modern standards of living but they have no criminals.

>>20362899
Believe whatever you want to believe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20364535
What does "peace and prosperity" mean to you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20364542
Freedom to choose the lucky youkai that gets to eat me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20364550
Do you believe that's what ZUN meant when he wrote "peace and prosperity"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20364552
Yes, but also I'm not the person you think I am.

[Anonymous No.]

Hmm... let's see...

Double Dealing Character, Sakuya B Good Ending (Ending #6) :
Is then said that Gensokyo's peace is guaranteed by the rule of the strong. But while weaklings are oppressed, humans are not included in this and things could change depending on which side they stand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20364535
>And unless stated otherwise
What are you even trying to prove here. It was shown that villagers are having festivals and conventions all the fucking time. It is even plot point of several manga chapters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20364542
Words used by dictators to defend their actions. Also a quote from ZUN that was obviously retconned.

>>20365639
>What are you even trying to prove here.
That, again, pre modern standards of living means pre modern standards of living. Not pre modern standards of living but considerably better.

>It was shown that villagers are having festivals and conventions all the fucking time
Because, you know, poor communities can't hold festivals or conventions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20365468
Humans are oppressed, but in a different way from weak Youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20348571
Your post reminds me of https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/680633?pool_id=1805..

[Anonymous No.]

>>20367319
In what way?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20359542
>tainted by the expectations and desires of modern society
Your phrasing reminded me of Shii. I wonder what he thinks of Touhou, considering his interest in traditionalism and Japanese mythology.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20361062
There are very few lolis in Touhou (and most of them are fairies to boot), but many attractive young women.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20368160
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGgZKNJyokI

[Anonymous No.]

>>20364535
>And unless stated otherwise
That's not how it works, something being undefined doesn't mean that it's however you want it to be until the author proves you wrong, it means that it could go both ways until it's clearly defined how things actually are. Clinging to vague concepts that no one has ways to prove or deny doesn't help your arguments in any way other than fooling yourself into believing they're correct.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20369847
It's not undefined. Pre modern standards of living means pre modern standards of living. That is about as clear as it gets without just flat out putting the Human Village somewhere on the development index.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20370346
You don't need modern things to have a good life, especially when what replaces it is stuff like magic outright saving you from some of the worst stuff (for instance, natural disasters, which are still a major problem in the modern world--youkai protect the human village from those, gods assist in harvests, other players assist with rodents/pests--the only thing they don't seem to have is internet, they even have electricity)

[Anonymous No.]

>>20370833
oh and there's a doctor who can basically cure anything a hop, skip, and a jump away from the village

[Anonymous No.]

>>20368607
Heh. I have to agree with him that the lack of irony is one of the best features of the doujinshi culture.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322559
Some familiarity with Touhou is simply necessary if you have a serious interest in otaku culture. It is a shibboleth that distinguishes you from a mere "anime fan".

[Anonymous No.]

>>20370852
Could Gensokyo become a destination for medical tourism?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20370833
There is a lot more to modern living standards than just having neat stuff. Unless you are incredibly lucky or born rich, life in a place like the Human Village is tough and unpleasant. Only made tolerable by the few pleasures your almost nonexistent wealth can buy, and the people around you. And all of that is assuming that you are a straight japanese man, everybody else has it even worse.

>>20370852
Assuming you could, you know, afford the medicine. Which a dirt poor peasant almost certainly cannot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20370833
There is a lot more to modern living standards than just having neat stuff. Unless you are incredibly lucky or born rich, life in a place like the Human Village is one of hard, unrewarding, and usually dangerous work. Only made tolerable by the few pleasures your almost nonexistent wealth can buy, and the people around you. And all of that is assuming that you are a somewhat normal fellow, everybody else has it even worse.

>>20370852
Assuming you could, you know, afford the medicine. Which a dirt poor peasant almost certainly cannot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20370346
Gensokyo is not an ordinary pre modern settlement, it has elements of the modern world and elements from the youkai, are you porpusefuly ignoring the good things we've seen happen across the village, youkai ensuring the village doesn't come across natural disasters, rabbits for pets, sealion's show, the astronomy show, several festivals at the shrine, the ropeway? ZUN mentioning the village being a pre Meiji settlement doesn't mean that they're 3 meters deep on their own shit but that they don't have the advancements of the industrial revolution. If there's not a source that says that the villagers are malnourished and overworked or that crime exists in Gensokyo then you can't use that as an argument nor make affirmative statements with them, that's simply you making assumptions based around foreign factors to the series and are as much of headcanon as me believing that they all dine lobster every day simply because it's a magical land and youkai take care of them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20371931
Nice headcanon dude.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20372016
>are you purposefully ignoring the good things we've seen happen across the village
What good things? A few fun festivals and holidays to go to? That's not something exclusive to Gensokyo or the Human Village.

>If there's not a source that says that the villagers are malnourished and overworked or that crime exists in Gensokyo then you can't use that as an argument
If it says pre modern standards of living, then that means pre modern standards of living. Not "Pre Modern standards of living but most people aren't overworked and malnourished and there is no crime." Like, we know the Human Village has way better medicine than any pre modern village could even dream of having. That is a established way in which it is different from your average pre meiji settlement. There is nothing to indicate that there is no crime, people don't work insanely hard, and malnourishment is not a common problem among the poor.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20372049
Nice lazy post dude.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20372016
>are you purposefully ignoring the good things we've seen happen across the village
What good things? Pets, festivals, ropeways, and holidays are not exclusive to Gensokyo or the Human Village. Even natural disasters wouldn't be that much of a problem if they weren't such a isolated backwards community.

>If there's not a source that says that the villagers are malnourished and overworked or that crime exists in Gensokyo then you can't use that as an argument
If it says pre modern standards of living, then that means pre modern standards of living. Not "Pre Modern standards of living but most people aren't overworked and malnourished and there is no crime." Like, we know the Human Village has way better medicine than any pre modern village could even dream of having. That is a established way in which it is different from your average pre meiji settlement.

[Anonymous No.]

>malnourished and overworked
Did this guy completely ship MoF? Hell, he have a literal goddess of harvest appearing there. A poor master ruseman I would say.

[Anonymous No.]

>malnourished and overworked
Did this guy completely skip MoF? He have a literal goddess of harvest appearing there. A poor master ruseman I would say.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20372233
How does having a goddess of harvest mean that all poverty is cured? Most societies in the Touhou universe had a harvest goddess, and she did jack shit to improve their welfare.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20372195
This are the two things ZUN mentions about the lack of modern living standards in Gensokyo
>Thus, modern infrastructure such as electricity and water are not well-equipped
>It seems to have maintained late Edo period living standards, but its spiritual culture is said to be far more mature by comparison.
Does it mention people being hungry? Does it mention there being human made crime? All it mentions is the village lacking infrastructure of the industrial revolution and being more spiritually mature than the outside world, unless you can provide a source that confirms your point, then as pausible as it may be it's nothing but an assumption, these assumptions are nothing but your own interpretation of canon based on your personal bias and external influences, in contrast my interpretation of the village is that they are kept fed and happy, therefore they have no need for a ruler nor do they have the need to escape. It's simply bread and circus, but as long as you keep your population happy and ignorant, they won't care about trying to run away or defie your ruling, that's why you see people fleeing from Cuba to America and not the opposite. This is just my interpretation of the village based on what we've seen of it and my own personal experiences, is it as valid as your interpretation? If not then what makes your more worthy than mine?
>>20371931
>medicine there is cheap and has powerful effects, so it seems to be very highly regarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20371931
Eirin explicitly caters to the village, because she doesn't need the money--she only takes payment as a matter of course.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20372195
>Even natural disasters wouldn't be that much of a problem if they weren't such a isolated backwards community.
lolwat

Natural disasters WRECK the modern world, consistently. The most we can do is recover from them, not combat them or prevent them (which is possible with gods and magic)

[Anonymous No.]

>>20365778
>Also a quote from ZUN that was obviously retconned.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that this was retconned. When ZUN described Gensokyo as being peaceful and prosperous he ALSO believed, at the very same time, that Gensokyo was premodern (ie, lacking in electricity and such). It's clear that whatever the fuck you may personally think is possible, ZUN himself believes that a fictional community can be both premodern and prosperous at the same time.

In a post-Ten Desires Febri interview, when asked about Gensokyo, ZUN said, とはいえ、妖怪も人間も基本的には暢気にまったりと暮らしている ("That said, youkai and humans are basically living carefree and relaxed lives"). At that time, too, Gensokyo was premodern. Your entire argument rests on the notion that all premodern societies were miserable shitholes which has been explicitly contradicted by ZUN so many times it's really not clear how you're capable of still making it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20376500
>There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that this was retconned
It was definitely from a time where the quotes could easily be said to be retconned if they were the only piece of evidence for something (e.g. PCB prologue), but this certainly isn't that kind of quote.

>it's really not clear how you're capable of still making it
layers of headcanon and historical arguments created solely to argue headcanon

[Anonymous No.]

>>20373610
>This are the two things ZUN mentions about the lack of modern living standards in Gensokyo
And that's all you need. Late Edo/Pre modern standards mean what they mean, and any way it differs (Like the higher spiritually and better medicine) are mentioned and explained.

>in contrast my interpretation of the village is that they are kept fed and happy, therefore they have no need for a ruler nor do they have the need to escape. It's simply bread and circus, but as long as you keep your population happy and ignorant, they won't care about trying to run away or defie your ruling, that's why you see people fleeing from Cuba to America and not the opposite.
People have food and are being kept happy in Cuba. The reason they go to America is because they want more than that, even if that means having to risk a life without the kind of welfare a communist state provides. The Human Villagers don't even have that, as is there no welfare or any genuine desire by anybody to keep them reasonably content and happy.

>If not then what makes your more worthy than mine?
The fact that it's based on nothing. The Human Villagers hate and fear Youkai, have nothing but interest in the outside world, and we've had multiple examples of villagers that dislike Gensokyo and none of a villager that actually likes it.

>medicine there is cheap and has powerful effects, so it seems to be very highly regarded.
Cheap is not the same thing as free. I doubt everybody is able to afford it.

>>20375008
It's mentioned as being cheap, not "Free unless you want to pay".

>>20375018
Natural disasters suck. But the only reason they could risk wiping out the entire Human Village, which is also the only reason the Youkai care to protect them, is because they are completely isolated. Like everything else Youkai do, they don't give humans anything as much as try to lessen the problems they caused.


>>20376500
>There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that this was retconned.
Most Pre-UFO village lore was retconned. It was genuinely a paradise back in PMISS, but the reason why it was a paradise are obviously no longer the case in the Human Village as it's portrayed in FS and SOPM.

>In a post-Ten Desires Febri interview, when asked about Gensokyo
Even TD was 7 released years ago. Gensokyo has changed considerably since then, and there is nothing carefree or relaxed about the lives of most Humans that are not either Reimu or a friend of Reimu. In fact, it's a pretty explicit point that the Human Villagers exist to be terrified of Youkai in recent works. Sounds relaxing, doesn't it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20376809
*Layers of canon facts and historical facts used to point out that Gensokyo isn't supposed to be a paradise anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20376500
Also, would you mind actually linking that interview?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20377110
>And that's all you need. Late Edo/Pre modern standards mean what they mean
That's what YOU believe they mean, not all pre modern societies where the same and by your own logic all of the things that occur in Gensokyo wouldn't be canon because they live in a premodern settlement and not "a premodern settlement but they have magic and are helped by youkai to not die off and be happy", you seem to forget they're far from being an ordinary pre modern settlement when it suits. And are you using "historical facts" of Japan or "historical facts" of your western interpretation of pre modern societies?
To put it simply, unless you can provide a source of the villagers suffering from any of the issues you've mentioned, canonically the only bad thing that happens to villagers is that they still fear the youkai, everything else is something that YOU came up with to connect the dots, as pausible as it may seem YOUR interpretation of Gensokyo is nothing but headcanon, and there's nothing wrong with having headcanon, everyone tries to fill what's left unclear of Gensokyo but you really need to stop trying to pass it as an objective truth.

I'm not going to answer anymore because I know it's pointless, I tried yet again to argue reasonably with you but you seem to be far too focused on being right. If you want an example of that is you still believing poor villagers can't afford Eirin's medicine and trying to find an excuse to justify your statement even when presented with canon evidence of it being cheap and powerful. Do you really need for ZUN to write "it's so cheap even the poorest of villagers can afford it" so that you start believing in it? Canon says medicine is cheap, and the only thing you can do is assume there are people out there that we've never seen or known about that are so poor that they can't afford it. Which holds more value? Which one is headcanon? ZUN explicitly saying that medicine is cheap and highly regarded or you assuming there are people so poor that can't afford it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20371354
Only if the plane crashes with no survivors.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20377110
>Most Pre-UFO village lore was retconned.
Where?

>It was genuinely a paradise back in PMISS,
Nothing in PMiSS has been retconned.

The purpose of humans in Gensokyo is to fear youkai [X]
Humans lack collective political agency [X]
Most humans can't fight youkai but a few can [X]
The human village exists in a state of premodernity [X]
Despite this, the people of the village do not suffer [X]

All of these things were true in PMiSS. All of them were true today as they were then.

>In fact, it's a pretty explicit point that the Human Villagers exist to be terrified of Youkai in recent works. Sounds relaxing, doesn't it?
This point has been an explicit part of Gensokyo since EoSD. I'll trust ZUN more than I trust you about one million days of the week.

>>20377212
>Also, would you mind actually linking that interview?
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Febri/Ten_Desires_and_Touhou_Project_interview_with_ZUN_Part2

>どんな世界なの？
>幻想郷という箱庭世界でのお話。日本のどこか山奥にある、結界で閉ざされた地域、幻想郷。そこでは、結界の外の世界でちからが弱まったり、その存在が幻想として扱われてしまうものが逆に大きな力を持ち、古い昔のように妖怪が人間を襲い、人間はそれに怯えつつ生活している。わずかばかりいる、ちからを持った人間が妖怪を懲らしめている。とはいえ、妖怪も人間も基本的には暢気にまったりと暮らしている。

"What kind of world is it?"
"It's a story of the miniature garden known as Gensokyo. Somewhere in the mountains of Japan, an area sealed off by a barrier, Gensokyo. There, those who in the outside world have lost their power and whose existences are treated as imaginary, in contrast, have great power. Like the days of old, youkai attack humans, and humans live in fear of youkai. There exist, but only few, humans with the power to rebuke youkai. That said, youkai and humans are basically living relaxed and carefree lives."

This was true in PMiSS, it was true during TD, and it's true today.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20377110
>The Human Villagers hate and fear Youkai
there's a fear of youkai because that's the point, wow

>have nothing but interest in the outside world
it's interesting because it's "advanced", but they are simultaneously uninterested because it's so far removed from the life they're already comfortable with

>multiple examples of villagers that dislike Gensokyo and none of a villager that actually likes it
the point is peace and contentment of the average person; individuals "disliking the state of gensokyo" is what's interesting as a story so obviously will be the focus of events, especially considering gensokyo is all about creating flavour while also the balancing status quo

>Cheap is not the same thing as free. I doubt everybody is able to afford it.
based on nothing but pure assumption used in order to support your position
Eirin is using her role as a doctor to fit into human society. And in human society, you pay money for goods and services. It's cheap *in order* for her to provide her services with minimal cost while maintaining that she is acting as a human should.

>there is nothing carefree or relaxed about the lives of most Humans that are not either Reimu or a friend of Reimu
You are shoved so far up your own headcanon that it's actually kind of amazing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20377663
>That's what YOU believe they mean
That is what I KNOW to be true. The Late Edo Period isn't some mystical time from which only legends survived. We have a very good idea of what it was like. And while it was far from the worst possible time and place to live, it still sucks compared to the modern world.

>all of the things that occur in Gensokyo wouldn't be canon because they live in a premodern settlement and not "a premodern settlement but they have magic and are helped by youkai to not die off and be happy",
Again, any differences with a Late Edo settlement and mentioned and explained. Pretending that "having magic" is the same thing as "no crime or poverty" is just stupid, although it's not like your average Human Villager even knows how to use magic. If you want to argue that the Human Village doesn't have crime because the Youkai are watching over it and murder any would be criminals. Then you MIGHT have a point i'm willing to discuss, because that's actually something based on a canon fact rather than just random "If Magic then no crime" insane troll logic.

>And are you using "historical facts" of Japan or "historical facts" of your western interpretation of pre modern societies?
I'm using historical facts of Japan. That I have a western interpretation of the place has nothing to do with anything. If the Human Village resembled a 1880 German village, I would have much the same opinion.

>Do you really need for ZUN to write "it's so cheap even the poorest of villagers can afford it" so that you start believing in it?
Believe what? That Eirin sells medicine? I believe that, I just don't think there is anything to indicate that EVERYBODY in the Human Village, no matter how poor, is able to afford them.

>Which holds more value?
Both, because they are not contradictory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20379428
>Where?
Mostly the lorebooks and spin off manga.

>The purpose of humans in Gensokyo is to fear youkai
No. The purpose of Humans in PMISS is to fight Youkai. Otherwise, their relations are noted as being incredibly cordinall. With only a few youkai being genuinely feared.

>Humans lack collective political agency
Never even implied. In fact, while it might be a mistranslation, they even seem to have some kind of leader.

>Most humans can't fight youkai but a few can
It's made pretty clear that the Human Village has a decent population of Youkai exterminators and magicians living in it. While we don't know the exact amount, quite a few Humans can fight Youkai.

>The human village exists in a state of premodernity
Yes.

>Despite this, the people of the village do not suffer
The reason why the people of the village do not suffer are explained to be that they have a incredibly cordial and friendly relationship with Youkai based around everybody, even mostly normal people, being involved with fake abductions and fake exterminations. None of this is true anymore.

>All of these things were true in PMiSS. All of them were true today as they were then.
Wrong and wrong.

>This point has been an explicit part of Gensokyo since EoSD.
It hasn't been a point of Touhou until pretty recently. For the longest time, what Youkai needed to survive was conflict not fear.

>This was true in PMiSS, it was true during TD, and it's true today.
It wasn't true during PMISS, it was true during TD, and it's not true today. The Human Villagers, as portrayed in both FS and Symposium, do not live relaxed and carefree lives anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20380532
>there's a fear of youkai because that's the point, wow
You do realize that, like, writing doesn't happen by accident. ZUN didn't NEED to make that the point.

>it's interesting because it's "advanced", but they are simultaneously uninterested because it's so far removed from the life they're already comfortable with
There is nothing to indicate interest. Any outsider staying in the Human Village become a overnight celebrity. Fads from the outside world are regularly adopted. Any facts that cross the boundary are accepted without question or challenge. The Human Villagers prefer the Outside world to their own pitiful existence.

>the point is peace and contentment of the average person
When there are no examples of people preferring the Human Village to the outside world, and multiple examples of people preferring the outside world to the Human Village. Then the point is not the peace and contentment of "average people". That's like claiming the point of Star Wars is the peace and contentment of the Empire because we aren't shown random civilians complaining about the Empire.


>based on nothing but pure assumption used in order to support your position
That cheap is not the same thing as free is a fact. That not everybody is able to afford it somewhat less of a fact. But unless you can proof that the Human Village has 0% poverty, I don't think it's a unreasonable assumption.

>You are shoved so far up your own headcanon that it's actually kind of amazing.
I feel the same way about you, by the way. You refuse to accept the fact that the Human Village is a shitty place to live, based on nothing expect your own viewpoint and a few words from ZUN that are almost a decade old.

[Anonymous No.]

I don't know man.
Few words from ZUN that are almost a decade old >>> some random nobody's interpretations and assumptions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20383593
Thanks for providing a long post that just shouts "no" over and over without citing a single source. Your argument up until now has rested on all sorts of retarded shit like "there's no way ZUN could have envisioned a premodern yet prosperous place" despite being contradicted by his exact words and "there's way that people who live in fear could live carefree lives" despite also being directly contradicted by ZUN's exact words. Despite this strong empirical evidence that you literally don't understand what ZUN thinks literally one fucking bit you still insist that you're the only one who's even gotten it right.

If you're just going to shout "wrong" and "no" despite being literally disproven by the text over and over, either provide textual evidence or shove your headcanon up your ass.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20383593
Thanks for providing a long post that just shouts "no" over and over without citing a single source. Your argument up until now has rested on all sorts of retarded shit like "there's no way ZUN could have envisioned a premodern yet prosperous place" despite being contradicted by his exact words and "there's no way that people who live in fear could live carefree lives" despite also being directly contradicted by ZUN's exact words. Despite this strong empirical evidence that you don't understand what ZUN thinks literally one fucking bit you still insist that you're the only one who's even gotten it right.

If you're just going to shout "wrong" and "no" despite being literally disproven by the text over and over, either provide textual evidence or shove your headcanon up your ass.

>You refuse to accept my retarded headcanon that I haven't provided a single bit of textual basis for that the Human Village is a shitty place to live despite all of my arguments being disproved by direct quote from ZUN
I wonder why this is.

[Anonymous No.]

People.

>>20383630
>based on nothing

See this?

Stop replying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20383630
>You refuse to accept the fact that the Human Village is a shitty place to live
Nah, it's just you that refuses to accept any position besides your own of complete extremities, in order to prop up your own narrative of what the series is and assert you're right on the internet.

>>20387068
same

[Anonymous No.]

>>20387068
Now the real question is why do people keep replying to him? Is it because he posts what he believes of touhou as an objective truth? Is it because of him making controversial claims and then backpedalling into safe waters of ambiguously interpretating canon? Is it his narcissism and how everything revolves around him and what he believes? Is it because he gets cocky whenever people stop replying to him out of desesperation and claims the majority of the fanbase are trying to justify the bad things of touhou because they want to fuck youkai while completely misunderstanding the whole point of why people even reply to him?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20387224
Probably. Not like most "arguments" aren't mostly made out of this sort of bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

Remember to take it easy /jp/!

[Anonymous No.]

>>20387291