/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

The 7 Youkai/Human and Natural wonders of Gensokyo.

Youkai/Human wonders.
1. The Court of Hell
2. The Gardens in Hakugyokurou
3. The Magic Library, Voile
4. The Fortress Pandæmonium
5. The Eientei Mansion
6. The Hakurei Border
7. The Garden of Sun, Mugenkan

Natural wonders.
1. The Youkai Mountain
2. The Lake of Blood.
3. The Bamboo Thicket
4. The Sunflower Fields
5. The Forest of Magic
6. The Underground world
7. The Misty Lake

[Anonymous No.]

THEN WHO WAS SHRINE?

[Anonymous No.]

1. Voile, SDM
2-7: Don't care

Natural:
1. Sakuya
2-7: don't care

[Anonymous No.]

How can a mansion be a wonder?

[Anonymous No.]

>5. The Eientei Mansion
This shouldn't be here. Find something else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934656
The Eientei Mansion is suppose to be fucking big with lots and lots of rooms.

[Anonymous No.]

>2. The Lake of Blood.
I'm pretty sure the Youkai created that one. Don't have a proof, tho.

[Chomp !HH2/bfBUgA No.]

>>1934677
If you could fit the MOON in one of the hallways/rooms of Eientei, that's pretty damn special in my book.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934645
>Mugenkan
What? Someone care to explain?

[Chomp !HH2/bfBUgA No.]

>>1934703
It's where Yuka lives.

[Anonymous No.]

The second list is more "locations" than wonders.

[Anonymous No.]

Oh wow, I've only heard of one of these places.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934722
Well, I think OP was going for the most impressive locations of Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

Who created the Hakurei Border? The Hakurei or Yukari?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934753
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Hakurei_Border

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

Everyone in the Eientei crew has some means of screwing up your perception, so walking... sorry, flying into the next room and finding a moon isn't necessarily strange.

[Chomp !HH2/bfBUgA No.]

>>1934753
I think Yukari created the border, and the Hakurei were merely assigned to guard it. But maybe they had a hand in creating it too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934765
>Yuyuko has speculated that not even Yukari could make a boundary of this level (from scratch, on her own).
Maybe it was created by the Hakurei family, since Yukari only lives there. Yukari is just a youkai that care about the stability of Gensokyo, at least thats what I think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934763
Eientei is suppose to be a place where dimensions clash. I have always thought as if you were walking inside the mansion you open a door and you find a portal to outerspace, other doors leads you to differents parts of Gensokyo and others just to dimension without nothing inside.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934796

That reminds me of the one room in Shadowgate where you break the mirror and you get sucked into space and die.

[Anonymous No.]

You forgot Yuka's flower garden

[Anonymous No.]

Where is the Dragon Palace?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934816
>4. The Sunflower Fields
This one?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934817
Reimu blew it up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934817
Dragon Palace?

>>1934807
I love that game. But never complete since I didn't want to read a guide, but actually got really far in it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934829
It is a place that Iku guards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934826
WHY WOULD SHE DO THAT

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934852
There is no actual text that discribes the place. So, there is no way to know how great it is.

[Anonymous No.]

You're missing Kourindou, where the manliest man lives.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934857
Because, Reimu.

[Anonymous No.]

Voile is just a dusty library. Not that great.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934645
When everyplace is special, not one is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934888
Silly Anonymous, Voile is not awesome because of the books.

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

Voile is plain huge, but it isn't clear how much of it is permanently there and how much is Sakuya messing around.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934903
If Sakuya enlarge the library space that would mean that the number of books will change. Which makes me think that Voile is a distorsioned place which change magically over time and has nothing to do with Sakuya powers.

[Klein !Klan7ih6Qs No.]

>>1934903
This picture~

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

>>1934934

... is older than the universe, I know.
But most every other pic of Voile has Patchy with her nose in a book taking up the whole page.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934926
Why woulkd Sakuya want to make the library bigger. It is not like she hangs out in the library the whole time.

[Anonymous No.]

I like to think of the Eintei Mansion back when it was still under Kaguya's ability.

I imagine it to be eerily silent, everything seemingly frozen.

[Klein !Klan7ih6Qs No.]

>>1934945
I wasn't saying it was a bad thing, actually! The only picture I like that has anything to do with Patchouli and one of the nicer pictures of Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934960
It isn't under the influence of Kaguya ability now?

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

>>1934961

Oh!
Like it too, but still... the net is fairly dry when it comes to pic of Voile itself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934974
I might be wrong, but I think Kaguya weakened her ability on the mansion significantly. I can't find where I got that idea from.

Maybe I'm wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935001
Does Patchouli still have feelings? I mean as far as we know she could have been a human that become a Youkai Magician. She may have lost interest in humans feelings when she turned into one.

She looks quite careless in her dialogues, like she really didn't care at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935040

She was born a magician. zun agreed, don't bother him about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935040
Elementals are born, not made. Pretty sure Patche care about whats going around her, if not she wouldn't have even made an appearance on SA.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935009
Maybe because they don't want the Lunarians to have ways to cross the border and find them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935098
What does have to do with Kaguya power affecting Eientei?

[Klein !Klan7ih6Qs No.]

>>1935001
Too right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935168
Remember that Kaguya powers affect over the whole mansion, I guess that it means that it could the part of the Hakurei Border around the Bamboo thicket making it weaker. Thats how I think Reisen and Reisen 2 could get into Gensokyo that easily.

Dunno my theory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935206
The Border is suppose to be impenetrable, temporality have nothing to do with it. So Kaguya powers can't affect the border.

[Klein !Klan7ih6Qs No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935206
From what it's described like, the mansion extrudes its own temporal-dampening field that preceded the arrival of the Lunarians.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935220
It does, not directly but it does. They were going to do something with the moon in IN which involved going out the border.

Which means that the Eientei crew can go out Gensokyo whenever they want. Wonder is they can go to the human world.

[Anonymous No.]

You guys are missing the best Voile picture out there.

Too bad it's so fucking tiny. And I named the file like a dipshit without realizing it.

[Klein !Klan7ih6Qs No.]

>>1935266
I don't know, this one is pretty sad.

She'll never leave ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935259
Not only them. Yukari is suppose to be able to go to the other side by just using her boundary powers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935309

That is Index and she'll be done sooner than you think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935253
So the mansion have with-in powers? Another reason to have it like a wonder. But someone should have binded the place. Maybe Eirin.

[Klein !Klan7ih6Qs No.]

>>1935322
Oh damn you're right, I just saw a robe and books and wrongly assumed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935315
That means that Sanae and Chiyuri are trapped on this side of the border unless someone help them?

[Anonymous No.]

Does the underground path leads to the center of the earth?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935358
Fuck no, if the last stage of SA was the center of the earth, you will need like 300 stages because of the distance.

It's hell, you know Tenshi is from the heavens, so there most be a Hell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935404
Where is Satan then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935419

[Anonymous No.]

On vacation at the Pandæmonium.

[博麗 霊夢 !1rAyMooPLc No.]

>>1935419
Dead.

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

Long story made short...
Lunarians can travel from the moon to earth and vice versa (how exactly this is done is optional - anything between spaceships and jumping has been suggested), but only during full moon.
To keep this from happening Eirin steals the moon, while still leaving the moon in space, and either hides it in the mansion, or she puts the earth in a pot. She then puts a fake moon in space, where the real moon with Lunarians on it still is, at the same time as the real moon is in the Eientei.

Go have a beer. It'll help it sink in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935436
But while I get wasted... Do they have to do that every fullmoon?

I mean, I know they have to do their festival almost every month (involving the mochi, etc) but it has to do with sealing the path for Lunarians.

Also Why Lunarias would want to get into Gensokyo, don't they exiled Kaguya and don't care about her anymore?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935469

wait... what?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935469
>Do they have to do that every fullmoon?
If they did the IN event would repeat every month, so no.

What Eirin wanted to do in IN was seal the path once for all. And about the Lunarians, I don't know. Crazy fellas. inb4lunamarius

[Anonymous No.]

ITT: Sightseeing in Gensokyo

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

>>1935469

No, it's a one-shot thing. Eirin's fake moon never appears full when viewed from the earth, so the connection can't be established. If it doesn't work on one side, it doesn't work on either.

As for why they want her back, they *say* she's been pardoned, and it is her royal duty to return home, ie. her punishment is changed from exile to house arrest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935553
Fucking Lunarians. They are overpowered.

[Anonymous No.]

>Youkai/Human wonders.
That should be Youkai wonders. Since I think no humans were involved in the construction of any of those.

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

>>1935592

They just don't like tourists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935607
>2. The Gardens in Hakugyokurou
Hakugyokurou is a ghost shrine, and all shrine were constructed by humans. Still, there is no proof so you may be right that it is more accurate to call it Youkai wonders only.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935610
It's like they are really Japanese!

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935622
Besides that, a half-human takes care of the garden.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935646
Well, I think Yuyuko was a normal human too. She got tremendous powers powers when she died, still she is a ghost, not a Youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935667
Are ghosts youkai?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935683
Don't know. Reimu says phantoms aren't youkai, but I'm not sure if there's anything about ghosts. In before Touhou detective posts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935683
I think it is different, since if you remember the last words of Utsuho before fighting you in SA with Reimu A...

"My ultimate nuclear fusion will burn up
every body, heart, ghost, and youkai! "

So, I think they are quite different.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935683
>>1935691
In during.
“What I do is youkai extermination, you see. And ghosts are not youkai.”
Reimu's words from CoLA chapter 12.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935694
Well, hearts are part of the body.

[Anonymous No.]

Alright.

In PMiSS, in Remilia's profile, it's stated that "Depending on how she changed fate, you might even become a half-human-half-youkai."

So I was thinking, "Hey, that's pretty interesting, so maybe someone could make a doujin about how the Konpaku family ended up with their half-human half-ghost deal."

Of course, that led to the problem of defining if ghosts were youkai.

Looking in PMiSS, Youmu and Yuyuko are in different sections. Youmu is in the "Phantom" section, with Yuyuko in the "Ghost" section. And reading Youmu's profile, it made a good deal of sense. She had the qualities typically associated with phantoms, most notably the low body temperature. However, there was a slight problem with a ton of the stuff in PMiSS (other than Akyu's unreliability) and game translations.

[Anonymous No.]

In PMiSS, 亡霊 is used to refer to ghost.

幽霊 is used to refer to phantoms.

They're explicitly described as being two completely different things.

"They're (phantoms) often mixed up with ghosts, which are embodiments of deceased people, but phantoms are not necessarily spirits of the deceased. "

"Ghosts are different from phantoms, since they have the appearance they did while alive, can touch and speak, and an outside observer can't tell them apart from a normal human."

This creates a hell of a problem, as a lot of the translations merely used "ghost" in places where "phantom" would be far more appropriate.

But that still didn't answer the question of "Are ghosts youkai or not?"

So let's go to CoLA.

[Anonymous No.]

「私は、妖怪退治をする人間よ。幽霊は妖怪ではないの」
“What I do is youkai extermination, you see. And ghosts are not youkai.”

I'm only using Rikaichan to break up the sentences, unfortunately, so this can easily be ten sorts of unreliable. However, in the sentence, it would appear that Reimu is actually referring to phantoms. Made sense in the context of what was happening with Rinnosuke, the temperature in Kourindou being unnaturally cold.

So actually, it's more accurate to say, "What I do is youkai extermination, you see. And phantoms are not youkai."

[Anonymous No.]

In short, Remilia may have been responsible for the whole half-human-half-phantom thing, but now it's far less plausible than had it explicitly said that phantoms were a type of youkai, or if it said that Remilia could cause people to become half-human-half-phantom. Actually, I think it's sort of stupid than phantoms aren't considered a type of youkai, considering the parallels that are made between them and fairies, which are considered youkai. But now, the idea for the doujin is completely shot, and you would have to "make up" the idea that Remilia can also create half-human-half-phantom beings if you really wanted this doujin to come into existence.

Goddamnit ZUN.

[Anonymous of UC Berkeley !H5QuKTly02 No.]

>>1935718
Cool investigative report, bro.

[Anonymous No.]

Well, fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935718
Phantoms are conjured youkai. They can't exist on their own, but are created by somebody or something else.

Remi can obviously do this, maybe a BIT better than others.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935715
Still, it is quite weird what determine who becomes a phantoms and who a ghost.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935742
Wait, so they ARE youkai?

Oh Jesus, I think I'll just go with whatever ideas I feel like. Oh well. These sorts of things is one of the main reason we have such a nice variety in doujinshi anyways.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935770
inb4blacktewi

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935775
Now lacking the distracting hips panel!

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935787
Why you do this.

Also, for what I think Phantom are when the soul gets guided by Komachi down the river then Judged by Sikieiki (which means that gets send to hell). Ghost is when its an errand soul that haven't been able to find eternal rest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935834
By saying this you mean and what I read up there thats not true. If Youmu is a phatom that would mean that she already got judged and she already reborn, but I guess her proces on her is just not complete.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935834
Soul =/= Ghost

[Anonymous No.]

>>1937456
FUND IT

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>1. The Court of Hell
>2. The Gardens in Hakugyokurou
All of them are not in Gensokyo

>4. The Fortress Pandæmonium
>2. The Lake of Blood.
>7. Mugenkan
All of them may be not in Gensokyo

>7. The Garden of Sun
>4. The Sunflower Fields
Are the same

[Anonymous No.]

>>1937476
The soul is a immaterial being made out of the personality of one. The soul can actually think and have it's judgement.

Ghost is an errand part of the conscientious of the person that stay on the place it died. It has no way of thinking and normally can't realize it is death.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1937505
>All of them are not in Gensokyo
They are inside the border, so technically they are in Gensokyo.

>All of them may be not in Gensokyo
Maybe the Pandæmonium isn't because of the context in Mystic Square.

And yeah, I agree those two are the same.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1935644

It's true, Reimu will do anything for money.

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>>1937520
You have never seen Hell in a game, but:
the Sanzu river is not in Gensokyo, but according to Akyu can be reached from Gensokyo. If there is a hell, it is on the other side.

Hakugyokurou too can be reached from Gensokyo, but it's location is not defined. I think that you can reach it by flying to the northern border of Gensokyo where Muendzuka, where the world of the Gensokyo, the outside and the dead meet.

I made one mistake.
>It's where Yuka lives.
I thought this meant Yuuka's mansion which is, together with the lake of blood, located "behind the Hakurei shrine". That would mean outside.
The Garden of the Sun is inside, not far from the Human Village.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1934816
>>7. The Garden of Sun, Mugenkan

[Anonymous No.]

>>1937558
>If there is a hell, it is on the other side.
But hell is what Utsuho and Orin work at. It's at the underground world.

Also, as far as I know Yuka lives in the Sunflowers fields. She run away after her fight with you in Lotus Land story and never got back to her original place after thart.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1937636
No, Satori and her animal friends squat in the former locals of Hell. They've long ago relocalised elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1937651
So, the hell that Utsuho works at regulating its flames isn't the hell we are talking about?

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>>1937636
Yuka, just like Suika, comes and goes as she likes. She is seen at places where beautiful flowers bloom. This means, that you will see her at the Garden of the Sun in summer. The exception would be the Flower Incident, where even flowers that were out of season bloomed and were visited by Yuuka.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1937677
The underground world in SA USED to be part of Hell before they ran into financial problems and had to downsize to make ends meet and pay staff. As such, Hell is much smaller than it used to be.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1937697
Oh ok, so Yuka it like a nomad. So, she just like sunflowers because she like them? Or does it have some connection to her. I have played Lotus Land Story but didn't see a vital connection between her and the flowers.

>>1937714
So that leaves the Court of Hell as the only thing closer to the real hell where the souls get send after being judged. But I think this hell has no physical form, Sikieiki can visit it, but not in a material form.

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>>1937738
The connection between Yuuka and flowers has only been established in PoFV when Yuuka was introduced with her Power to manipulate Flowers. No character did have a special power in the PC98 games.

[Anon of Neo-Russia No.]

I think this is a pretty accurate map but many things need to be added like the Land of the Oni etc.

Is there a better version of the map of Touhou?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1937834

Thumbnail looks like sperm attacking an egg.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1937867
You mean it isn't?

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>>1937834
If by accurate, you mean add the names of every stage and place known as the map was created, then yes, but if you care about the location of these places, it's as inaccurate as it gets with it's Eientei, Youkai Mountain, Scarlet Devil Mansion and giant Kourindou.

[Anon of Neo-Russia No.]

>>1937897

that's why I am looking for a more accurate map.

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>>1937906
Have this very inaccurate one of Kiezya while I'm looking for something else.

Btw: The SDM is on a small island-like rock in the misty lake, right? I think ZUN wrote 2 times "near" and one time that what I said above.

[Anonymous No.]

Someone needs to tell ZUN to make a goddamn map himself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1937959

Enjoy your drawing of a beer can.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1937960
If it worked that way, every Touhou game would feature beer cans in frilly dresses.... wait


GODDAMN IT, ANON!

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>>1937959
never

Not a map, but you see the human village, the giant toad's pond, the SDM and misty lake.

[Anonymous No.]

What about this one? It looks like Draenor's retarded twin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1937834
Anyone else feels like Gensokyo's map looks like a map out of Metroid Prime?