/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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Anonymous Mon Dec 22 20:59:28 2008 No.1804070 [Reply] [Original]

ORT > Type Jupiter > Type Saturn = Crimson Moon > Type Pluto > Type Venus > Primate Murder > Original Roa > Imaginary Angra Mainyu > Gun God = Ado Edem > Zelretch > Counter Guardian Archer > Dark Sakura > Gilgamesh = Arcueid > Dark Berserker = Dark Saber > Lancelot = Saber > 5th Berserker > 5th Lancer > 4th Lancer = 5th Caster = 4th Caster = Roa Elesia > 4th Rider > 5th Rider > Nrvnqsr = Clairvoyant Fujino = Kurogiri > Archer = 5th Assassin = 4th Assassin > Aoko = Kouma = Barthomeloi = Kojirou = Ciel = "Ryougi Shiki" = Soren Araya > Touko = El-Melloi = Night of Wallachia > Sion Tatari = Melty Blood Satsuki = R.Shiki = Akiha = Fujino = 18th Roa > SHIKI = Arba (potentially) = Kiri > Nanaya = Reinforced Kuzuki = Sion = UBW Shirou = Waver = Bazett > Avenger = Rin = Kotomine = Zouken = Luvia > Kiritsugu = Irisviel > Maiya = Arba (usually) = Leysritt = Tsukihime Satsuki = Lio = Avalon Shirou = Sakura = Ilya = Kariya = Len > Kirie = Caren = Meruka > The Dead = Possessed Corpse = Azaka = Misayo = Dragon Tooth Warrior = Fuji-nee > Fake Shiki > Kohaku > Shinji = Ryuunosuke = Tomoe > Hisui

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:02:14 2008 No.1804081 EVERY MOTHERFUCKING TYPE-MOON CHARACTER EVER.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:03:06 2008 No.1804086 and what is your point op....?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:03:16 2008 No.1804087 Again?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:03:58 2008 No.1804090 there's so much wrong with the list, i don't even know where to start

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:04:21 2008 No.1804092 >>1804070 Kiri > Nanaya I find this hard top believe considering that Shiki has MEoDP

>>	the official /jp/ tripfriend !KVzOEaUpQc Mon Dec 22 21:05:01 2008 No.1804098 >>1804092 Kiri is used to killing demons who could wipe Nanaya off with a swipe of the hand.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:05:47 2008 No.1804097 >Gun God = Ado Edem

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:06:08 2008 No.1804099 File: 58 KB, 642x1083, 1229979968246.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:06:20 2008 No.1804100 well done?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:06:20 2008 No.1804102 what is ORT? what is type jupiter, type saturn etc? what is barthomeloi?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:06:39 2008 No.1804103 Isn't Dark Berserker weaker than regular Berserker? Since it was defeated by Shirou using a giant slab of rock (that's not a noble phantasm)

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:07:25 2008 No.1804107 >>1804070 By the way,where is Heavens Feel Shirou in this chart? Is he counted along with Archer or something?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:07:42 2008 No.1804108 next time you leave fan fiction shit like avalon shirou out, OP

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:07:58 2008 No.1804109 Shiki defeated Arcruied so shouldn't he be higher up?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:08:44 2008 No.1804110 File: 42 KB, 642x1083, 1229980124140.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1804099 here. Is this version better or worse at getting the point across?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:08:53 2008 No.1804111 >Gilgamesh = Arcueid

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:09:00 2008 No.1804116 >>1804110 the first one is better

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:09:22 2008 No.1804113 >>1804098 Dead apostle > and demon Kiri ever killed

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:09:32 2008 No.1804114 >>1804108 Somebody hasn't played Fate/Stay Night whatsoever. Avalon Shirou IS Fate Shirou.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:10:55 2008 No.1804118 >>1804114 sorry, i ctrl'd through fate because i have seen the anime first

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:11:09 2008 No.1804120 >>1804109 This chart disregards circumstantial information save for with Gun God and Arba. Shiki caught Arcueid by surprise, a fact which is circumstantial.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:11:23 2008 No.1804122 >>1804103 Dark berserker is stronger

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:12:58 2008 No.1804127 >>1804120 Haha no Shiki stabbed the earth cutting off all of Arcs power and sliced her up.... how was that circumstantial?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:15:27 2008 No.1804135 >>1804127 He wouldn't have been able to do so had Roa not been invading him. Shiki would have died right after attempting such a thing if he was normal.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:17:02 2008 No.1804140 >>1804135 >Shiki would have died right after attempting such a thing Nuh, uh he wouldn't

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:17:05 2008 No.1804138

>>1804097

Well, they're both capable of killing Types, but Gun God comes solely from Black Barrel.
Black Barrel would pwn most people in the Nasuverse, too. Reality Marbles would fucking explode, and a Sorcerer would be eradicated. The more magic it has, the more destructive Black Barrel becomes.
This is why, against Types, who are WALKING INFINITE MANA, Black Barrel one-shots them.

>>1804102

ORT (Type-Mercury) and all the other Types are Ultimate Beings of other planets. Since Earth doesn't have a Type, it is natural for them to be stronger than anything on Earth.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:20:15 2008 No.1804150 >>1804090 >>My favorite character isn't high on this list and therefore it's wrong. I'm going to go and think of some >>random bullshit that has no barring whatsoever and say that it contradicts what the chart says, pretending >>that it discredits it.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:23:30 2008 No.1804164

>>1804150

ORT isn't my favorite character and I can tell already that ORT can kill anybody.

I'm not even challenging much, the chart's pretty good on a whole. There's a helluva lot of "="s there, which is good, as it implies we can't tell which is actually stronger.
Like Type-Saturn and Crimson Moon. They can't really be compared very well, as Crimson Moon is immense personal power, but Type-Saturn was considered a "leader" among Types and had its lunatic antimatter rain.
But CM is freakishly strong, and T-S failed to kill Gun God instantaneously with a passive shot.
So it's hard.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:24:45 2008 No.1804171

>>1804140

Dont bother trying to argue against it. It's a waste of time. This "LOLPOWERLEVELSCHART" is more so on raw strength than actual skill and ability.

In reality the Type Moon universe is more like a game of some sort of constantly changing Rock Paper Scissors.

Arcuied would be Rock

Shiki would be Scissors

Arcuied goes into crush the Scissors,Shiki turns the situation around and adjusts things so that Arcuied is now techniqually a "Paper" and seizes a "Win"

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:24:52 2008 No.1804172 >>1804138 I'll concede that Gun God is solely circumstantial and it can be said that he's against the rest of the chart, but it's merely for the sake of listing him. Where else would I put him otherwise?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:26:07 2008 No.1804178 >>1804172 Absolute BOTTOM. He's a perfectly normal human, cho.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:26:12 2008 No.1804180 >>1804171 >raw strength Then Shiki should be higher up because he is so strong he can kill anything in one hit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:27:58 2008 No.1804192 Shiki would walk up to ORT, smile and say "You and me one on one" then stab ORT's point of existence. FUCKING OWNED!

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:28:35 2008 No.1804195 >>1804180 He's still slow and weak on the defensive. Also, that one-shot move will make his head explode if he can't understand what he's killing. Also, it doesn't even WORK on the top-tier of this chart; the Types.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:30:43 2008 No.1804205

>>1804192

Here's a better thing.

Shiki walks up to ORT and says "Y-" and is an atomic vapor.

Shiki walks up to ORT and says "You and me, one on one", realizes he can't see ORT's lines and is an atomic vapor.

Shiki walks up to ORT and becomes a crystal tower.

Shiki walks up to ORT and says "You and me, one on one", then stabs at ORT and breaks his knife and is an atomic vapor.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:30:49 2008 No.1804206 >>1804195 >weak on the defensive. defense don't matter when you can kill anything in one hit >He's still slow Shiki moves so fast when he enters HAX mode that Arcruied can't follow him.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:32:30 2008 No.1804218 >>1804206 Then HAXMODE Shiki could be higher up, not normal Shiki.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:34:40 2008 No.1804227

The list is pretty accurate, save some nifty Gil = Arcueid. CM > Zel? That's accurate if we take CM as its height of its power and fully aware of magic. But that didn't happen. And CM didn't know, so getting taken by surprised means it still got owned.

Everything is right. Wtf is wrong you faggots?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:43:15 2008 No.1804282 >>1804206 Please don't forget the Roa modifier. Please, please don't forget the Roa modifier.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:50:29 2008 No.1804313 I love this thread. I love that chart.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 21:55:00 2008 No.1804353

>>1804227

>Wtf is wrong you faggots?

Circumstantial evidence doesnt allow us to accept it.

>>1804180

Where Shiki should be on the Chart is seriously up in the air. We have no idea what kind of things he can understand,see and, "Kill" for all we know he might be able to see something that would be able to put even someone like Zeltrech to their knees or make them flinch or something.

In theory it sounds completely ridiculous and insane but knowing Shiki's eyes,it really is completely up in the air. Same could be said for Shirou.........Well against the lower tier people atleast like Assasin at least.

But instead of him changing the overall situation,he would instead crush it with force by becoming a Super Scissors instead of changing his opponent into a "Paper".

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:00:41 2008 No.1804393

>>1804206

>defense don't matter when you can kill anything in one hit

Actually, it kind of does. If Shiki is sneak-attacked by *anything* on the upper part of the list, he will be destroyed before he knows it. Now, like all heroes, he's had a lot of blind luck and never faced anyone that backstabbed him, but, well, that's only because if he had, there would have been no Tsukihime. I personally prefer to not take plot-armor into account when thinking about powerlevels, which means having good defense is really important.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:00:59 2008 No.1804395

Why is dark berserker higher than normal berserker.

I remember reading somewhere (forget where) that because Hercules's holy stat was so high the effects of angra mainyu being so evil, actually weakened him. Still strong as fuck, but not as much as his normal form.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:01:58 2008 No.1804401 Makes me sad is Sion Tatari so at mid-tier. ;_; Even Ciel is above her, which is probably right. Just suck Sion doesn't get development enough to show off.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:03:49 2008 No.1804413 >>1804393 sneak attacks are circumstantial, we are discussing who would win in a straight up fight.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:08:35 2008 No.1804444

>>1804413

Well, the vast majority of those top-tiers would hack Shiki into pieces before he could move in reflex and the actual top-tiers are immune to his one-shots.
A greater deal of upper tiers have ranged attacks that come in far too massive sprays to all be cut down, as well.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:10:56 2008 No.1804462

>>1804413

Straight-up fight being considered as "one versus one in a featureless plain with both combatants aware of each other"? Well, as you wish - I always have liked to take the intelligence of a character as part of their powerlevel, which such setup diminishes, but your thread, your rules.

Then, I think Shiki only loses to: a) People faster than he is, b) anyone that can fly and pelt him from avobe, ala 5th Caster (seriously, Shiki, man, get a ranged weapon for backup or something!) or c) people that are so alien to him he can't "understand" them.

Which means he *is* rather hard to place him anyway

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:14:36 2008 No.1804490

>>1804444
>top-tiers are immune to his one-shots.
Only the Types are immune to oneshots because they are not from earth otherwise Shiki can oneshot everything
>Shiki into pieces before he could move in reflex
Hax Shiki is definitely faster than any servant and he can destroy noble phantasms. Shiki should be able to take down any servant One on One

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:15:06 2008 No.1804502 >>1804462 Basically who would generically overpower the other.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:15:16 2008 No.1804495 lol powerlevels

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:17:14 2008 No.1804509 >>1804490 >faster than any servant and he can destroy noble phantasms. You're not enough trying. Seriously. Blatant fanwank can only get you so far.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:17:52 2008 No.1804513 >>1804509 trying enough, I mean.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:18:23 2008 No.1804517 >>1804462 >anyone that can fly and pelt him from avobe Shiki can just block the projectiles with his knife thus it is a draw

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:19:35 2008 No.1804526 >>1804490 I believe nasu has stated that Shiki couldn't beat a servant. But hey, lol power levels.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:20:23 2008 No.1804534 >>1804490 >and he can destroy noble phantasms and get his head fucking popped.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:22:44 2008 No.1804542

>>1804490

He is definitely NOT faster than most of the Servants. During the confrontation with Dark Berserker, Shirou and his opponent were moving near the speed of sound. And, Nasu said that he COULD kill Servants, though they'd be harder than other objects. On the other hand, Noble Phantasms would force him to his breaking point much faster. Shiki already has much more trouble killing normal inanimate objects compared to regular living beings. Let's say that Servants are just more difficult to kill living beings, and Noble Phantasms are their equivalent inanimate objects. Makes sense, no? NPs forces him to his point of overload so quickly that he's dead by the third or fourth kill.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:23:35 2008 No.1804546 >>1804534 Shiki can destroy noble Phantasms, as long as shit was made on Earth then Shiki can destroy it

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:24:34 2008 No.1804551 >>1804542 Also, Shiki killing a Servant is kind of defeated by the fact that the Servant > Shiki is terms of general stats, so I need to clarify that, too.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:25:03 2008 No.1804560

>>1804517

Personally, I give Shiki less stamina than I think Caster has Mana, so he'd end up tired and with a killer headache killing his focus before she had to think of stopping, but hey, not like we have numbers or anything, so it's all down to fanwank on both sides.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:25:57 2008 No.1804559

>>1804546

Yes, if it wasn't made on Earth, he CAN'T kill it.
And if it WAS made on Earth, he CAN kill it.
However, if it's a COMPLEX CONCEPT, like Noble Phantasms, UNDERSTANDING it HURTS HIS BRAIN.
And Arcuid openly says that will net him a busted blood vessel if he tries too hard.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:26:59 2008 No.1804566

>>1804546

No, Nasu was specifically speaking about Shirou's projections when he said he could kill them if you ignore how he's going to fry his brain in the process. Shirou's projections are frailer existences than real Noble Phantasms, which would inevitably kill him if he strikes more than one. Over two is instantaneous death.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:27:06 2008 No.1804569 File: 108 KB, 580x800, 1229984826131.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] And Dark Shneider is superior to them all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:27:12 2008 No.1804567 >>1804551 Why would a servant have higher stats? servants are just humans.... Shiki on the other hand is more than human he has enhanced speed + strength because of his blood.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:28:19 2008 No.1804574 >>1804567 >servants are just humans what?? since when

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:30:11 2008 No.1804583 >>1804574 since always servants = humans who became heros not humans with special powers

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:30:46 2008 No.1804586 Shiki's shit tier compared to Shiki anyway.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:31:09 2008 No.1804592

>>1804569

Duh. NOTHING is more powerful than him.

>>1804567

Now we know that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Servants are far, far superior to humans in every imaginable way, a fact blatantly stated in the game. Only people like Roa and Zelretch have ever reached a level surpassing them as normal humans, though most of the DAAs could equal or surpass them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:31:24 2008 No.1804589 >>1804583 Uh... Casters have special powers; we call it magic. Quite a few of the Servants have divine blood, too, like Hercules. Oh, and did we mention they're HEROIC SPIRITS AND NOT HUMAN ANYMORE?

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:34:37 2008 No.1804603

>>1804567

No, I think you got that backwards.

Shiki is an slightly enhanced human by vitue of his blood, which gives him a really nice assassin mojo and an incredible instinct. But nothing else - he still dies if you shout Kalima and rip his heart out.

Servants, on the other hand, are projections of mythical heroes that exist beyond this world or some shit like that, given a temporary body which is actually not really that human. It is repeteadly made a point in Fate that Servants are NOT humans, and not even close to limited by human biology.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:37:17 2008 No.1804615 >>1804583 Except Servants aren't considered human anymore Their bodies aren't even human. They're high spiritual class of beings-Eirei. They are beings with special powers, wtf are you saying?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:41:17 2008 No.1804626 File: 138 KB, 480x480, 1229985677736.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] HOW COME I'M NOT ON THE LIST!?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:42:28 2008 No.1804632 File: 902 KB, 1920x1200, 1229985748219.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Kohaku > Hisui?

>>	insanezero !VUNofZD8jM Mon Dec 22 22:42:37 2008 No.1804630 >>1804626 Taiga is NekoArc tier

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:44:11 2008 No.1804638 >>1804626 She's there, look harder.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:46:58 2008 No.1804648 >>1804626 I think you were covered under Fuji-nee, Taiga-sama. But don't worry, we all know that while the powerlevel chart seems to shun you, you out-awesome 90% of the list merely by existing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:47:30 2008 No.1804650 >>1804626 You are though. Near the bottom. >>1804632 Physically and mentally stronger, regardless of negligible Roa modifier.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:47:30 2008 No.1804651 >>1804632 Kohaku > Hisui in bed. Shiki agrees, don't ask him about it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:48:14 2008 No.1804655 File: 36 KB, 216x218, 1229986094096.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >5th Lancer

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:49:07 2008 No.1804660 >>1804626 >Dragon Tooth Warrior = Fuji-nee > Fake Shiki > Kohaku > Shinji = Ryuunosuke = Tomoe > Hisui Check the bottom tier

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:50:41 2008 No.1804665

The fact that Dark Sakura is above Gilgamesh and Arcueid is completely stupid.

Gilgamesh would've killed her if he stopped being a moron, and Arcueid, who is arguably stronger than Gilgamesh statwise, as well as having the uberhax Marble Phantasm, would end the show easily as well.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:52:23 2008 No.1804675 >Gilgamesh would've killed her if he stopped being a moron The problem is that he IS a moron

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:53:27 2008 No.1804680 Shiki should not be in that list. He never fights in a straight up battle. Well, he did once and he did manage to kill a DAA by himself.

>>	Fujiwara no Mokou !!mGXYMm0qKk/ Mon Dec 22 22:53:43 2008 No.1804682 >>1804665 She just has hax instant kill against all Servants.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:55:00 2008 No.1804690 >>1804682 She shouldn't be > against Gil and Arc. At least a = or Gil and Arc would be higher, IF you take out the circumstancial shit, amirite?

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 22:55:26 2008 No.1804688

All the > and = makes it hard to read. Recompiling.

1. ORT
2. Type Jupiter
3. Type Saturn, Crimson Moon
4. Type Pluto
5. Type Venus
6. Primate Murder
7. Original Roa
8. Imaginary Angra Mainyu
9. Gun God, Ado Edem
10. Zelretch
11. Counter Guardian Archer
12. Dark Sakura
13. Gilgamesh, Arcueid

>>	Fujiwara no Mokou !!mGXYMm0qKk/ Mon Dec 22 22:58:56 2008 No.1804703 >>1804690 Of course. Canon wise. From pure text I did not see Arc as being quite that powerful, but Nasu says she's 4X stronger than Servants, and creators are always right.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:02:05 2008 No.1804724

>>1804703
>From pure text I did not see Arc as being quite that powerful

It's probably because she was less than 10 percent during the entire Tsukihime story after Shiki slashed her into 17 pieces. Even then, her Marble Phantasm caused a vacuum a DAA couldn't even run away from.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:04:06 2008 No.1804734

>>1804690
Q. Whose stronger, Gilgamesh or Arcueid (30%)? While Arcueid has the strength of 4 Servants, I remember reading a scene in hollow where Gil was the equivalent of 5 Servants + a.
A. In the definition of Arcueid's strength, there's this thing where "her output can be changed in accordance with her opponent". As an absolute order taken from her backup, the planet, she is only allowed an output that is slightly stronger than her opponent. So. Single entity ability of Arc to a Servant is roughly the same.

Servants use their respective Noble Phantasms while Arc uses her unlimited backup to fight, and differences occur depending on affinity. A simple-is-best Arc is an all rounder, and so generally her chances of winning are only high, but there are those opponents that she just has helplessly awful compatibility with.

For example, in cases where even if the guy's stats are about the same as Arc, he has a ridiculously large number of weapons, and with high versatility. As the amount Arc is allowed to take out is based on "unit ability", against types like Gil-sama, well, you see?

And the 5 Servants + a is simply a comparison in terms of "firepower". Like with the "corpses", where each won't have to bother fending off attacks from foot soldier level opponents, the one who'd have the lead is the one who has the more weapons. In Broad Bridge, the reason why Servants excellent at one-on-one combat didn't stand out was because of this. Also, for normal Arc, she would get approximately the equivalent of 2 Servants single entity stats.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:06:08 2008 No.1804750 >>1804745 Even with that, Arc still has the Marble Phantasm.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:06:33 2008 No.1804745 >>1804734 Yeah, just proves that the only advantage Gil has over Arc is Firepower. Statwise, Arc is still superior especially with Gaia reinforcement.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:07:08 2008 No.1804751 Lancer uses Gae Bolg to pierce ORT's heart. WHAT HAPPENS?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:07:12 2008 No.1804757 >>1804751 ORT doesn't have a heart. Enjoy your dead Lancer.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:11:42 2008 No.1804770

Can, uh, we just STOP talking about ORT and Types?
The Types are good. Nothing will top them and we have no evidence for them to top each other. Just leave them be and stop trying to one-up them because you can't except through haxattax which does not prove you are stronger than them anyway.

So they're on top and they stay on top. Now we can forget about them.

LIST STARTS ARE PRIMATE MURDER OKEY

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:12:49 2008 No.1804778 >>1804734 So it's a matter of Marble Phantasm + better stats for Arcueid vs Gate of Babylon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:20:08 2008 No.1804813 >>1804770 Humanity as a collective > any TYPE.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:22:09 2008 No.1804830

>>1804745
More or less. If this was an out of character battle, Gil can actually kill Arc if he pulls out EA and spams it without hesitation. Otherwise, he'd be too arrogant for his own good. If it was the case where each side knew their opponent's ability, then Gil has more tricks that could overpower Arc via hax like Gae Bolg and whatnot.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:25:44 2008 No.1804844 >>1804813 More like Humanity as a Collective = a Type. Types are the culmination of a planet's power.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:28:42 2008 No.1804852

>>1804830

See, this is why I said I like to count smarts as par of the character's powerlevel. Gil has a lot of raw power, but has serious problems with the whole "efficient use of force" thing because he's just too proud for his own good. Meanwhile Arc, pre-Shiki especially, is a lot more ruthless and direct, and will probably be right in Gil's ass before he finishes his first sneer.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:31:32 2008 No.1804860 >>1804844 Humanity isn't really part of Gaia. It's a force of its own.

>>	Fujiwara no Mokou !!mGXYMm0qKk/ Mon Dec 22 23:34:57 2008 No.1804875 >>1804830 Gilgamesh can't use Gae Bolg's special powers, or that of other Servants' Noble Phantasms. He's an Owner, not a User. To him it's just another powerful projectile among many.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:35:13 2008 No.1804877

>>1804860

That's why it's equivalent to a Type: Earth cannot become a culminated planet (no Type-Earth to hold its spirit), so nothing on it or made by it can equal up to a Type.
Since Humans are apart from their planet, they can enhance to no limit and become a culmination of themselves, and become Type-Human.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:36:53 2008 No.1804883 >>1804877 Oh, and it's impossible to go BEYOND a Type. That's the last stop of the universe.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:42:51 2008 No.1804896

>>1804860
>>1804844

Well, the only reason I mentioned it is because humanity is very good at doing lots of different things. Lots of interesting things.

Like seeing the death of things.
Like using magic.
Like creating conceptual weapons.
Like enhancing their own body.
Like persisting to live on, even on a dying planet.
Like resisting various forces - external and internal - that wish to destroy them.

And given it's usually due to the specially trained abilities of a single individual that take down the powerful enemies, a united human race would be frigtening indeed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:49:42 2008 No.1804914 >>1804830 I would say Marble Phantasm > Ea. But I honestly don't know.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:53:19 2008 No.1804930

>>1804896

>Like seeing the death of things.
Types don't HAVE deaths!

>Like using magic.
All their magic is Earth-born and comes from Gaia. Types take their magic with them and hold power EQUIVALENT to Gaia.

>Like creating conceptual weapons.
Types don't need weapons... But thankfully conceptual weapons are one of the few things that work on them.

>Like enhancing their own body.
Also one of the things that helped vs. Types.
But Types are obviously at maximum evolution. No need to enhance.

Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:55:27 2008 No.1804937

Shiki will fry his brain if he tries to destroy something non-human and too complicated,correct?

But I wonder what would happen if he didn't see the actual thing.

Shiki has MEoDP,but,they are more than eyes; If shiki took off his glasses and actually cut the object with his eyes covered,it would not make him a complete vegetable,as he's not "seeing" it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 22 23:58:43 2008 No.1804949 >>1804937 You can't cut the lines without seeing them. Even if someone points it out for you. This is explicit in the MEoDP.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:01:27 2008 No.1804957 >>1804949 Well.....that's......true. BUT Shiki in Satsujinki mode killed a vampire (quite powerful) with his eyes covered.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:03:36 2008 No.1804963 >>1804957 But he could still see the lines, even with his eyes covered.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:04:28 2008 No.1804968 >>1804963 No one can confirm that but Nasu himself.

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:06:25 2008 No.1804977

>>1804957

Well even upper-tier vampires aren't hard to comprehend; if he had to kill more than one in a short timeframe it might kill him.

And Satsujinki might've had some weird things done to him like "having his mind opened" or some shit. Deus ex Machina says he's the best Shiki you can get, I believe.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:08:29 2008 No.1804992 Where the hell is Satsujinki written about?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:09:34 2008 No.1804993 "Is it the 'Mystic eyes of death perception'? It's too wasteful to destroy that Shiki. Especially seeing as anything you can see will be seen even if you ruin your eyes. You see, a curse is something that comes back if you throw it away."

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:10:09 2008 No.1804997 >>1804992 Character Material.

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:19:23 2008 No.1805034

>>1804930

Hm, I suppose I was being a little vague again. I was just listing various things that humans have been shown to do in the Nasuverse. Not necessarily using said powers against Types.

>Imagine if the Types decided to attack and humanity HADN'T developed the Demonic Sword evolution.

Well, I was under the impression that the very reason the Demonic Swords existed as weapons at all, was because there was an enemy to use them against. Even so, it's very possible that humans could of found another solution for combating Types. Or they'd simply be exterminated.

>Well, how did humanity even develop the True Magics? It's not very explained.

It's not explained because there's no one around to tell the story. The Aozakis simply don't mention it, and Zelretch is busy being old. Would love to hear about the True Magics though.

And the Black Barrel isn't as great as many seem to imply that it is. Couldn't even eliminate Type-Venus properly.

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:27:19 2008 No.1805056

>>1805034

>And the Black Barrel isn't as great as many seem to imply that it is.

But it is. It only gets stronger against stronger (magic-oriented) enemies. True Magic wielders would implode by touching it.
And it's a perfectly fine gun against non-magic users too. If something isn't using magic in the Nasuverse, a gun would be as bad as a gun to a human. Bang bang.

>Couldn't even eliminate Type-Venus properly.

Nothing can eliminate a Type properly. They live beyond death. There is no beginning and no end to an Ultimate Being. Type-Venus's Type body is dead and that's all humanity needed. Type-Venus's hyperdimensional consciousness isn't very threatening.
There's probably J/J and S/S running around somewhere on Dead-Earth thanks to Ado Edem.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:31:28 2008 No.1805069 >>1804968 It's been confirmed before, even if he gouged his eyes out he'd still see lines.

Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:35:33 2008 No.1805083

Not completely an expert on powerlevels here, even though it's nice to see Gil that high up.

But I'm just wondering on the source/information regarding "Counter Guardian Archer". Ive never heard of him being explicitly talked about, let alone him being that powerful.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:36:37 2008 No.1805088 >>1805083 Counter Guardian Archer is powered by the world. Servant Archer doesn't get that boost.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:38:05 2008 No.1805093 >>1805088 I understand this, but I was just wondering if there's someting worth reading regarding it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 23 00:49:41 2008 No.1805133 >>1805093 http://tatari.110mb.com/fuyuki/index.htm

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