[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/jp/ - Otaku Culture

View post   
  [?]In ghost mode, only threads with non-archived posts will be shown
File: 922 KB, 1196x1369, __kishin_sagume_touhou_drawn_by_kurose_enstnrundead__f54bb10f9af8fae96a435a7cc6c67e8b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18001690 No.18001690 [Reply] [Original]

This is Sagume. She's the WORST 2hu. I hate her so much!

>> No.18001715
File: 2.77 MB, 1700x2475, __kishin_sagume_touhou_drawn_by_d_m_dii_emu__e5c9b967938d5104a60ceb8d4cca79a3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18001715

It shall be so.

>> No.18001880
File: 107 KB, 850x638, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18001880

Sagume is the most beautiful girl in the world

>> No.18001900

>>18001880
Wow rude.

>> No.18001907

The throatpussy Touhou

>> No.18002134

>>18001690
Sagume and I WON'T have a happy romantic relationship.

>> No.18002380
File: 230 KB, 850x1133, __kishin_sagume_touhou_drawn_by_efukei__sample-405df8c7d585ad23ba8cabdbf54ff6f3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18002380

I WON'T make her feel special everyday

>> No.18002776
File: 1.14 MB, 1000x1440, 902e512e11eb3a50b9df5aa3e934b358.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18002776

>>18001690
Sagume is NOT my wife dudes.

>> No.18003180

Her abilities don't always work.

I love Gu. She has it rather hard.

>> No.18006553
File: 89 KB, 960x767, 19642312_476052212793190_97225780294942179_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18006553

I wonder a lot about her.
Why she has two halves, her relationship with Baku, her visits on Gensokyo.

>> No.18006569

>>18001690
Why would you hate her? I think she's very cute and lovely.

>> No.18006577

The ryona touhou

>> No.18007870

What a shitty thread.

>> No.18010984

>>18001690
Of course you hate your mom Seija.

>> No.18011065
File: 168 KB, 1200x1200, 1363716510406.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18011065

>>18001690
What if Sagume says "my ability will stop working"?

>> No.18011460

>>18011065
Nothing, because her ability doesn't work like that.
If she talks about an event, that event's predetermined and fated outcome will become the opposite. In the case of LoLK she talked about the moving of the Lunar Capital to Gensokyo, which was going to succeed, but since she talked about it, it would now fail. She was placing her bets on the reason it would fail would be due to the protagonist defeating Junko, meaning the Lunarians could just return to the moon instead of Gensokyo.

>> No.18011468

Sagume is NOT a mindless sex
slave who obeys my every command!

>> No.18011820

>>18011468
And you're in a state of constant uncertainty about whether regardless of her mental alignment you'd ever be worthy of her, because you obsess like that - bad time for that free advice - free to you anyway jerk.

>> No.18014893

haha what a funny thread

>> No.18014908
File: 40 KB, 600x452, 1471464494046.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18014908

>>18011460
Ok. But what if, like, she said "my ability will work" instead?

>> No.18014915

>>18014908
Sagume's ability does not change established facts or realities. It's an established fact that her ability works. Her saying it won't change it. It's not as much a Power Word: Reversal as it is a kind of future/fate manipulation.

>> No.18014931
File: 184 KB, 600x600, alice_punched.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18014931

>>18014915
>It's an established fact that her ability works.
Are you trying to use induction? Go read some Hume please.

>> No.18016442

>>18014931
Ouch!

>> No.18016464

>>18014931
If her ability works, then that's an establish fact it can't change. If it doesn't work, then there's no discussion. Simple as that.

>> No.18016534
File: 103 KB, 600x500, let_me_tell_you_why_you're_wrong.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18016534

>>18016464
So whether if her ability works is still uncertain and unproven. Since it's not a fact, it can just as well be stated that her ability is "fated" to work, similar to how the lunarians' plans were "fated" to succeed, by your own analogy.
Also the touhou wiki entry says this:
>When she speaks about a particular situation or event, that situation will eventually proceed to reverse itself, through whatever means possible.
Which makes no reference to fate, so I don't know if you conflated Sagume with Remilia or something but fate itself should be completely irrelevant in discussions about Sagume.
>Simple as that.
Not quite. If Sagume says "my ability will work", then either one of two things will happen: either her ability will work or it won't. If her ability did work, then it'd negate her statement and hence make her ability not work, on the other hand if her ability did work, then her ability should not work since her ability would need to negate her statement. Both lead to contradictions and it's not one that could be swept under the rug by discarding LEM since by causality an event must either happen or not happen.

>> No.18016600

>>18016534
>fated fated fated
It was a loose comparison, since many people associate future-manipulation powers with the concept of fate. Calm your autism.
>If Sagume says "my ability will work", then either one of two things will happen: either her ability will work or it won't.
Within the setting, it's a fact that Sagume's ability works. This is non-disputable, unless you mean to invoke some kind of unreliable narrator interpretation. And since her ability works, it can't change the reality of itself working. The future has nothing to do with it. The ability works continuously. In fact, "My ability will/won't work" is likely one of the safest phrases for Sagume, since it can quite literally do nothing.

tl;dr: Sagume's ability can't change current events, only future events, and her ability currently works as per word of god

>> No.18016676

>>18016600
>Within the setting, it's a fact that Sagume's ability works.
Which leads to a contradiction.
>This is non-disputable
Except by her own ability.
>The future has nothing to do with it.
What? The entire reason that the lunarians' plan didn't work is because Sagume said that their plan will succeed before they completed/implemented it fully. Her words quite literally alter the future so the future has everything to do with her ability.
>since it can quite literally do nothing.
So at the end of the day it'll just be one of those cases where her ability works for some statements but not others for some arbitrary reason.

>> No.18016777

>>18016676
>Which leads to a contradiction.
It's not a contradiction. Her ability works, and that's final.
>Except by her own ability.
First of all, her ability is a curse, and wouldn't remove itself at Sagume's will. That's what makes it a curse. Second of all, her ability works by altering the future through "whatever means possible," which clearly don't exist for removing her curse. Else she would have gotten rid of it long ago.
>Her words quite literally alter the future so the future has everything to do with her ability.
And here's our third of all. Sagume's ability works IN THE PRESENT, setting up a course for FUTURE events that will contradict her statements. It can not alter pre-existing facts and current events. That means, even discarding the above factors, that the ability is incapable of modifying the reality of itself working.
>her ability works for some statements but not others for some arbitrary reason.
Yes? It's rather specific, in fact. I don't see what is so outrageous about it. Her words change the course of future events to contradict her words. That's all it does. It can't change the past or the present, just the course of future events. It's not reality warping, and would indeed be close to something we would call manipulation of fate/predestination/time-stream/whatever.

>> No.18016794

>>18016777
>Her ability works, and that's final.
Which would render her ability to not work if she says "my ability will work". Are you actually incapable of reading?
>It can not alter pre-existing facts and current events.
>fact
Prove that her ability always works. Go ahead and do it without induction, I'll wait.
>Yes?
Great. That's all I wanted to know.

>> No.18016834

>>18016794
>Which would render her ability to not work if she says "my ability will work".
No. If she said her ability would work, then supposing it CAN modify its own behaviour, it would essentially cancel itself out by making itself not work. Thus changing nothing.

The whole argument is moot since it's very clearly stated the ability works by bringing to bear "whatever means available," and no such means of disabling Sagume's ability are known. Yes, it's arbitrary, and yes, it's very specific. But that's how her ability is described. It's not powerful enough to warp reality and make itself not exist, and there are no means "available" for making itself not work, so Sagume saying "My ability will work" does nothing and remains truth.

Now, if she said, "I won't forget about my ability tomorrow," and it was somehow possible for Keine to get to the Moon by tomorrow, and it was full moon, and she had a reason of some kind to make Sagume forget about her ability... Then that could work out. But again, available means.

>> No.18016887
File: 1.45 MB, 832x1080, eirin_wtf.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18016887

>>18016834
Seriously?
>Thus changing nothing.
Which is a manifestation of her ability working, contradicting her ability.
I legitimately cannot make this any more clear. There's a glaring contradiction present in her ability (unless you make her ability not work in some choice cases), but I'm not saying this is good or bad, just pointing it out.
>and no such means of disabling Sagume's ability are known
The absence of the proof that her ability will always work, so there's always the possibility that her ability will not work. This is not "disabling", just providing for the possibility that her ability will become a dud in some situation.

>> No.18017246

>>18016887
>Which is a manifestation of her ability working, contradicting her ability.
No. It's a manifestation of nothing happening. And you're forgetting it's a scenario outside the canon rules anyway, so no wonder you're upset.
> there's always the possibility that her ability will not work.
And I'm sure the moment Sagume encounters a circumstance wherein it lies in the realms of possibility for her ability to make itself stop working, it will stop itself working. But until then, it cannot.

>> No.18017250

It's a curse. If you try to take advantage of it it'll kick your ass. That's it.

>> No.18017259

>>18017246
>nothing happening
This is not the point. Her ability works (or not) regardless if anyone is around to see it. What a completely vacuous red herring.
>so no wonder you're upset.
Not upset at all. Just rather disappointed at your repeated failure to understand basic hypothetical scenarios.

>> No.18017278

>>18017259
What contradiction? In the hypothetical scenario where it is possible to seal her power, her power setting events in motion that would end in it being sealed would not be a contradiction. It would be a manifestation of it working perfectly. There is no contradiction.

>> No.18017298
File: 169 KB, 400x400, sweetie.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18017298

>>18017278
Jesus Christ.

>> No.18017360

>>18017298
Feel free to point out where I've erred, 3DPD-posting scum.

>> No.18017403

>>18017360
>Feel free to point out where I've erred,
Everywhere, and they were pointed out throughout the several posts above. You're just too stupid to understand it.
>3DPD-posting scum.
Fucking idiot (not ad hominem, but an insult).

>> No.18017456

Both of you just stop.
If she says her ability will stop working, her ability will keep working and the statement is nullified.

If she says her ability will keep working, nothing happens, and her ability keeps working.

>> No.18017463

>>18017250
*it won't kick your ass.

>> No.18017505
File: 114 KB, 750x768, DOPm-wwUEAII64m.jpg:large.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18017505

>> No.18017509
File: 89 KB, 750x768, DOPm_bcV4AApG9n.jpg:large.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18017509

>> No.18017515
File: 122 KB, 750x768, DOPm_3QUEAAJj81.jpg:large.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18017515

>> No.18017866
File: 768 KB, 800x800, sagume4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18017866

Disgusting Earthlings, arguing over things they can't understand.

>> No.18017921

>>18017515
Sagume and Seija aren't related

>> No.18017941
File: 97 KB, 578x800, DL2R7cAUQAE-sku.jpg:large.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18017941

>>18017921
Says who?

>> No.18018055

Are there any images of Sagume having her second wing sawed off

>> No.18018062

>>18018055
She has no second wing.

>> No.18018076

>>18017866
Neither does Sagume apparently.

>> No.18018175

>>18018062
ok then her first wing

>> No.18018426

>>18017941
Me

>> No.18018453

>>18017921
They technically probably are, just not necessarily very directly. Sort of same race and also Sagume PROBABLY created amanojaku

>> No.18018503

>>18018453
Way to go.

>> No.18018574

>>18018175
There never will be.

>> No.18018801

>>18018574
I dodon't want to be present to not see it.

>> No.18018869

Is there a reason why Sagume has a wing though.

>> No.18018890

>>18018869
Heron imagery.

>> No.18025720
File: 18 KB, 317x62, 2017-12-12-214104_317x62_scrot.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18025720

All abilities in touhou are self-declared.

Just because Yukari is known to have the "ability to control any boundary", it doesn't mean that she can literally do what she claims to be able to do to the letter. If you look at things this way, you will stop asking things like "why doesn't sakuya just stop time and kill everyone and skip the day so remilia can go out whenever she wants". Because she most likely can't. Because most people in genso aren't as powerful as we think they are.

>> No.18027639
File: 1.23 MB, 700x1000, 1483661891984.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18027639

>>18018890
Not him but thank you.

>> No.18027683

>>18018869
She's a cursed goddess/divine spirit. So it's a sort of a fallen angel kind of deal.

>> No.18027818
File: 26 KB, 794x208, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18027818

>>18025720
Who the fuck is ermin.
That isn't touhou friend.

>> No.18027968

Are Sagumefags just full blown autists? Looking at this thread is kinda giving me that vibe

>> No.18035426

>>18027968
No all. Skme are just bad apples.

>> No.18036730
File: 277 KB, 850x1208, __doremy_sweet_and_kishin_sagume_touhou_drawn_by_benizuwai__sample-b369875d630e3d6af7e481a458bb69e7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18036730

Anyone want some coffee?

>> No.18046265

>>18036730
But there's only two cans...
Does this mean one of us has to share?

>> No.18046309

>>18046265
>>18036730
I want to drink warm coffee straight out of Sagume's mouth!

>> No.18046317

I bet Sagume said something stupid like "Those filthy humans will NEVER invade us!" in 1968 and the moon has been a shitshow ever since.

>> No.18046359

>>18046317
It's almost like you're a lunarian yourself anon! How'd you know?

>> No.18054134

Gu is a hag.

>> No.18054329

>>18016834

So many people mistaking Sagume's ability...

No, saying "my ability will work" won't do a thing because her ability is strictly with current situations or events, or which her ability is neither.
This isn't just a reply to just you anymore. Her ability works for all situations given this criteria. This may be why you're thinking it doesn't always work because you're thinking it applies to everything in the first place, which it does not. It is not fate manipulation either!!

>> No.18062347

>>18054329
What if Sagume makes a prediction on a current event, and then ends the comment with, "But now that will never happen, because my ability is infallible."?

>> No.18065158

>>18062347
How do you predict a current event? it's already happening. Why would she say something stupid like my "ability is infallible" other than to try and game the system, which obviously doesn't work or she'd be an omnipotent god. The abilities in touhou rarely have their limits and breadth outlined rigidly, which is part of what makes it interesting. Reisen, Suika and Yukari are some examples where the powers are absolutely broken if they had no limit, but are still powerful enough to pull off some highly complex techniques. The more abstract the ability, the looser its limits are defined. Compare Flan's MEoDP to her sister's manipulation of fate. Compare Dr. Yagakoro's ability to create any medicine (Where the main question is if there are a ton of highly-advanced Lunarian breakthroughs in medicine) to something more abstract like Tewi's luck. Stating the full extent of these abilities makes them lose a lot of their mystique, wonder and overall sense of unknown which youkai thrive off.

>> No.18065188

>>18027683
Can she considered to be a Grigori?

>> No.18066713

>>18016534
Are you implying characters' abilities can't overlap in the domains they manipulate? I don't remember a rule like that and there's at least a few examples of overlapping ability domains, aside from Remilia and Sagume.

>> No.18066720

>>18016794
>Which would render her ability to not work if she says "my ability will work".
No, because that's not how it works. Her ability isn't to turn her words into some reality-warping opposite day shit. Her ability makes it so that any event she speaks of will have its predestined outcome reversed. In the case of LoLK it caused the successful future colonization of Gensokyo by the Lunarians to become a failure - the reason being that the Lunarians would not have to colonize Gensokyo as they could return to the moon with Junko's defeat.

>> No.18066744

>>18062347
>"But now that will never happen, because my ability is infallible."
This addendum would have no bearing on how her ability works. All that matters is that she talked about an event, and now that event's outcome in the future has been reversed.
>>18065158
Predict the outcome of the event, silly anon.

>> No.18077346

>>18001690
You mean the best 2hu.

>> No.18078097

>>18077346
Wow rude.

>> No.18078642

>>18078097
Don't you mean wow nice?

>> No.18088864
File: 53 KB, 402x720, 1456647849482.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18088864

Raise

>> No.18089134

Destined outcome reverses itself, destined outcome is unknown, so effectively whatever odds there were are reversed.

Basic logic.

>> No.18097606
File: 160 KB, 850x1205, __doremy_sweet_doremy_sweet_and_kishin_sagume_touhou_drawn_by_egret__sample-cd2546bdff011992ed74d60c0e431e19.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18097606

Sagume would make a horrible mother

>> No.18097839

>>18027818
Sorry, anon, but that was as close as I could get.

>> No.18099275

>>18088864
Go away Ainz, you're not my type.

>>
Reply to thread [?]Don't expect anything heroic. Your post will not be uploaded to the original board.
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Action