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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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1744539 No.1744539 [Reply] [Original]

How does this make you ZUN~?

>> No.1744556

>>1744539
Aya looks wonderful,
as in all of her portraits.

>> No.1744558

>>1744539
Old. As I am.

Fuck. I still remember the PC98.

>> No.1744568

C74 Reimu looks really good actually.

>> No.1744573

>>1744568
Well, I suppose ZUN got better over time?

Not that he is a drawing wonder, mind you.

>> No.1744575

>>1744573
His drawings look good in black and white, but when ZUN colors C70 Reimu, she becomes a zombie.

>> No.1744586

I don't know if insanity is decaying my mind from all that time playing, but I've come to like ZUN's drawing style.

Oh, God, poor me.

>> No.1744601
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1744601

I can't tell if his art has gotten better or worse over the years.

>> No.1744605
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1744605

>>1744586
Next thing you know, you're gonna wake up without a kidney!

>> No.1744608
File: 50 KB, 200x256, 1228912081059.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1744608

>> No.1744619

>>1744539
Did ZUN draw those?

>> No.1744624

>>1744586
you've been drinking too much

>> No.1744625

>>1744601

It's a toss up TBH. Quality of character art can go up and down in between games (some exceptions like Aya), but you also have games with awesome art side by side with terrible ones.

Case in point: MoF Aya and Nitori compared to zombie Reimu and Manjaw Minoriko.

>> No.1744634

>>1744619
Those are circle cuts. Of course ZUN drew them.

>> No.1744650
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1744650

ZUN'd thread!

>> No.1744693
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1744693

have more ZUN

>> No.1744724

needs moar pc98

>> No.1744743

ZUN has been drawing for 15 years and he still sucks at drawing? Why does he fail so much?

>> No.1744749

>>1744743
The sad thing is that he draws better than many of us.

>> No.1744750

>>1744743
Because he's a programmer, not an artist.

>> No.1744752

>>1744743
Well he's gotten bette-- ok not really. But C63 is really nice for some reason

>> No.1744758

I am like that other anon: I like(???) his art. Or at least I don't mind it. I don't know why, but ZUN without his unique , ahem, drawings just isn't ZUN.

>> No.1745890

>>1744749
Not really. I haven't drawn any thing since I was 12, yet I could reference an existing character design and create better looking/more realistic characters than ZUN. But I guess what you said is semi true. Without a reference I wouldn't be able to draw a stick figure.

Does ZUN use a reference, and if he does use a reference, what is it? Astro boy and/or Kaiba?

>> No.1745897

>>1745890

ZUN doesn't need a reference. He draws his immense power from the souls of the damned!

>> No.1745900

>>1744575
You're right, these look fine like this. But colored they look all weird.

>> No.1745904

The bad drawing makes Touhou special.

>> No.1745905

>>1744539
Not enough Cirno

>> No.1745907

>>1745890
You don't need references for drawings like ZUN's. You can easily copy his "style" if you've seen his portraits once in your life.

>> No.1745919

>>1744586
>>1744758
I like the art, I think it's part of the charm.
and even thou ZUN-ART isn't anything wondrous, you can tell he actually puts a lot of effort into it.

>> No.1745946

ZUN drawings are very good... he should get some colouring classes tho.

>> No.1745981

ZUN:

Art skills: 1/10
Game design: 2/10
Composer: 3/10
Programmer: 10/10

ZUN's mastery of the 1st and 2nd dimension is quite remarkable. If you actually think about video game programming: coding the AI, controls, and menus is easier than taking candy away from a baby. But to program bullet patterns in the way ZUN does is quite remarkable. Just judging by the paths and patterns of the bullets, ZUN has complete mastery of key geometric and algebraic formulas like PI and the velocity and speed of variables. I'd even go so far as to say the man ranks in the top 10 as one of the best retro programmers of all time. But all of his other talents are gimmicks at best and could be emulated by anybody who attempts to study them for a few months/weeks.

I honestly don't know why ZUN hasn't went 3D yet. With his mastery of the x and y dimensions, mastering the z dimension would be easy for him.

ZUN is just like every other Asian. High IQ, but no creativity and/or desire to break the mold. Give a man from the west ZUN's abilities and they would be building Half-life 3's physics engine.

>> No.1745982

>>1745981
>Composer: 3/10
Trolling games.

>> No.1745985

>>1745981
He's not that good at programming. He's good at pattern design though.

>> No.1745996

>>1744601
Too bad the last row isn't drawn by ZUN.

>> No.1746001

>>1745982
Compared to *real composers ZUN is pathetic. Metroid, Castlevania, hell even the retro Sonic, Starfox, Zelda, and Final Fantasy's music is much better than ZUN's. ZUN's programming skills on the other hand, in my opinion is much better than the programmers who worked on Metroid, Sonic, etc....

ZUN is really only good at math. When it comes to creative things like art, storytelling, and game design ZUN is beyond amateur hour.

If ZUN's art and music didn't fail so badly there wouldn't be hundreds of fans attempting to prove their superiority to ZUN by creating superior art and music.

>> No.1746009

>>1746001
Hi Robotech Guy.

>> No.1746015

>>1745981
He is better composer than programmer.

>> No.1746020

>>1746001

Oh, hello. Hit me with the Adult Swim ratings, guy.

>> No.1746027

>>1746001
Because someone who took up music for a career and only job is to produce musical scores is a good comparative to a man whose done, as an ameteur, bgm soley for his own games.
Yeah, those years of music composing he's done is shit because professionals are better.

It's like you're retarded.

>> No.1746031

>>1746001
>If ZUN's art and music didn't fail so badly there wouldn't be hundreds of fans attempting to prove their superiority to ZUN by creating superior art and music.

Because that's the main drive others have to draw, what.

>> No.1746048

>>1746009
Do you consider me to be an athens type troll, just because I like to speak my opinion about ZUN?

Nobody is perfect; what makes you think ZUN is any different?

Here, let me redo my ranking of ZUN:

Art skills: 10/10
Game design: 10/10
Composer: 10/10
Programmer: 10/10

Happy now? If ZUN is a 10/10 game designer. Than what is Shigeru Miyamoto. A 100/10? If Touhou's music is 10/10 than what should I rank Castlevania's music?

>> No.1746049

PCB art was the best.

>> No.1746054

>>1746048

ADULT SWIM RATINGS, STAT.

>> No.1746057

>>1746048
I didn't complained about the scores you gave, in fact I couldn't care less, but I thought "ZUN is beyond amateur hour" is something Robotech Guy would have said. Did I hit the mark or not?

>> No.1746064

>>1746027
Wat?

Did you not read my post. That's the reason why I gave him such a low score as a composer. Since you agree with my low score, what's the problem?

Would you rather I gave him a large score for composer? What would that say about Castlevania's composer?

>> No.1746072

>>1746064

Stop ignoring me. I want the Adult Swim ratings.

>> No.1746075

ZUN's drawings are as good as ICP's music.

Difference is that the man can make music and danmaku while ICP can't do shit.

>> No.1746076

>>1746072
What is an Adult Swim Rating?

>> No.1746080

>>1746076

I'll show you later.

>> No.1746100

Everybody take a look at this fanboy's perception of my post: >>1746027

Protip: When I ranked ZUN I didn't take into consideration about the fact that he was an independent game maker. What does that have to do with anything? If I was to rank Shigeru Miyamoto it would be:

Art skills: 0/10
Game design: 10/10
Composer: 0/10
Programmer: 0/10

What the hell does having a job in the gaming industry have anything to do with someone's overall rank? Even if ZUN was hired as a member of Nintendo his art skills would still be a 1/10. Again, just because someone is hired or not hired has nothing to do with my original post. Fanboy much?

>> No.1746108

>>1746100
go away, Robotech Guy

>> No.1746125
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1746125

>>1746108
1.Who/what is a robotech guy?
2.i've never watched robotech.
3.The only mecha anime I've watched is Gurren lagann and gundam 00.

>> No.1746133

>>1746125

Why must you lie?

>> No.1746138

>>1746100
How do you know that Miyamoto can't draw?

>> No.1746147

>>1746100
Isn't Miyamoto a programmer as well? (Was, perhaps.)

>> No.1746151

>>1746138
He can draw. I just did that to make a point. He's also good at animation. When he was a kid, he used to animate pictures of people jumping. I guess that's what lead to the creation of the first platforming game, Mario.

>> No.1746158

>>1746138
He did the art for the 3DO Zelda games.

>> No.1746159

>>1746151
Doesn't he paint as well? Or am I thinking of some other guy?

>> No.1746170

>>1746159
Yes.

>> No.1746172

>>1746100
Miyamoto made the music for Donkey Kong!

>> No.1746185

>>1746172
I'm also very aware of that.

>> No.1746191

>>1746185
Good, then:

Composer: 10/10

>> No.1746262

>>1746191
Good.

>> No.1746264

>>1746151
I suppose the ZUN ratings were exaggerated too to make a point.

He's not a 10/10 programmer. Programming bullets is not terribly hard, or so I've seen from Danmakufu. The AI in PoFV isn't perfect either. It is disproportionately easier to complete that game with Aya than with Reimu.

>> No.1746378

>>1746264
The 2 dimensional coordinate plain is arguably the most important thing in 2D games. And ZUN seems to have a complete mastery of the 2D coordinate plane. Any 13 year old can code advanced AI, menus, and controls.

If knowledge of the x and y dimension isn't the most important/hardest, by all means, please share with us something that you consider harder than it.

>> No.1746772

Zun is a dickerdoodle

>> No.1746777

Zun is the best anyone who disagrees is a troll

>> No.1746798

Someone who pursues just one aspect of game development professionally is better at that aspect than someone who pursues all of them in his free time. Who knew?

>> No.1746804

>>1746777
But he's still a dickerdoodle.

>> No.1746835
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1746835

ZUN's art, while not the best, still has its charms. Each game has characters that have much better art compared to others. I personally feel Orin's portrait was pretty well done.

You could say that bullets patterns are an art in itself, and in that area, ZUN excels.

>> No.1746838

>>1746001
Metroid doesn't have particularly good music other than a few songs. Castlevania is hit or miss, same with Zelda. There's nothing special about Starfox's music. Old Sonic music is pretty good. I don't play Final Fantasy so I can't comment on that. Zun's music is consistently catchy as fuck, so I would say that he is comparable to those "real" composers, and even better in some cases.

>> No.1746881

>>1746777
I don't claim that ZUN is the best game designer ever, but >>1746001
is essentially a refined version of Robotech Guy's trolling... cut out all the retarded obvious trolling about Naruto being superior to Touhou because it has huge quantities of shitty fanart on devianart, stick to the less obvious "classic console games have better music than Touhou" argument, drop the trip, and voila, successful (see >>1746838) troll

>> No.1746897

Actually, ZUN can draw pretty well. Look at IN's spellcard 222, Yukari is drawn exceptionally well there, except for the legs.

>> No.1746922

I like Zun's drawings. They have a nice quality to them, and he's awesome at drawing clothes.

>> No.1747824

What the fuck? You 'Zun is an amazing programmer' people had better be fucking trolls.

He's by no means bad, but how hard do you really think this is? I built a first person 3d engine, with realistic gravity and collision detection, when I was in high school, and I'm certainly not a great programmer.

These games barely even have AI; they're just basic patterns, and the occasional aimed bullet. The AI breaks down to aim/don't, and from that point on, it's all just patterns and extremely basic physics effects for differently accelerated bullets, bouncing, etc. These system don't require math knowledge beyond basic calculus, and the programming itself is only as complex as any other top-down shooter.

If you want to praise Zun, praise all of the interesting patterns he's made, and the sheer quantity of catchy music he's produced. Yet, even these aren't anything extraordinary. Zun's success is really only due to luck, in that a community just happened to pop up around these games.

>> No.1747835

>>1747824
>I built a first person 3d engine
enjoy your libs

>> No.1747839

>>1747824
lets see your game, faggot

>> No.1747983
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1747983

Miyamoto is an alumni of the Kanazawa College of Art. It goes without saying that he's a much, much better artist than ZUN.

What Shiggy is especially good at is creating games that reward exploration and looking for secrets. Super Mario Bros. was the first game where he really got the chance to exercise that talent (Donkey Kong and Mario Bros. didn't leave much room for hidden material), and it's shone through on every major game he's directed thus far, even modern ones like Pikmin and Wind Waker (Super Mario Galaxy less so, though it made up for it with atmosphere). But then, he has a degree in industrial design, so that shouldn't be a surprise either.

But comparing Miyamoto to ZUN is kind of silly, because Miyamoto isn't primarily a programmer. And I know ya'll niggaz ain't knocking on Koji Kondo's composing chops. Genuflect, show some respect; down on one knee.

>> No.1747986

>>1747983

Everyone is a much, much better artist than ZUN.

>> No.1747994

>>1747983
But you know, you can't really fap all that well to mario when you compare it to dat raymoo ass.

>> No.1747991

>>1747824
sugoi copypasta aniki

>> No.1748121

>>1747994
Princess Peach is classic masturbatory material. To say nothing of other Nintendo ladies.

>> No.1748124

>>1747994
Princess Peach is classic masturbatory material. To say nothing of other Nintendo ladies.

But yeah, touche.

>> No.1748134

>>1748121
>>1748124

I had this Mario comic book when I was a kid where Peach crossdressed as Luigi to infiltrate Bowser's castle or something. I think it was my first reverse-trap experience.

>> No.1748151

Zun's art in Perfect Cherry Blossom was good in my opinion but yeah, he goes back and forth from good to bad artwork but hell, at least it's the artwork and not the games that go from bad to good all the time.

>>
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