/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

What are your thoughts on this scenario for Touhou? Is this even realistic? I'm still trying to figure out details. What do you guys think?

>Chen dies due to unknown causes
>Yukari, along with Ran and a few other powerful youkai, create an entity using their energy to replace Chen
I haven't come up with a name for chen's replacement, so i will refer to it as "the spirit"
>something goes terribly wrong while creating the spirit, but nobody realizes until it's too late
>at first, the spirit Yukari creates is extremely weak.
>It hardly pales in comparison to even a fairy.
>It has the ability to absorb energy from almost anything to become stronger or to heal from injury.
>Posesses an extreme desire to improve, so this leads to it being rather subservient.
>Insane work ethic, much like that of Marisa Kirisame
>often trains to become more powerful and to hone abilities as well
>This trait also has downsides as well, such as becoming power-hungry
>Decades pass
>More or less peaceful during this period
>Over time, the spirit acquires a level of strength nearly beyond comprehension
>even Yukari is surprised at just how well her creation has come along
>posesses power slightly greater than that of every Scarlet Devil Mansion inhabitant combined
>Eventually surpasses Yukari due to its infinite potential
>She fears the spirit is becoming too strong for her to control
>At this point it is too late
>Becomes so powerful even her boundary manipulation abilities are overcome by the spirits raw, unadulterated might
>Fierce battle ensues
>Yukari is eventually destroyed by her own creation
>the spirit develops an evil side that consumes its enitre being

Haven't thought of a reason why this spirit develops an evil side. Could be due to whatever went wrong when it was created.

>hell bent on wreaking absolute havoc
Now, it's main goal is to eliminate everything in existence, starting with Gensokyo, then open the boundary that separates Gensokyo from the real world and annihilate humanity as well
>Begins to destroy every living thing one by one
>Becomes so powerful that even Mokou is completely wiped from existence after she is killed, despite being immortal.
>Later, Reimu hears about Mokou's demise and checks it out.
>Returns to her shrine and finds it in ruins

This is all i have for now.
Please no bully

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
>Chen dies due to unknown causes
why
>to replace Chen
why
>create an entity using their energy
why do it that way
>It has the ability to absorb energy from almost anything to become stronger or to heal from injury.
why
>Posesses an extreme desire to improve, so this leads to it being rather subservient
how are those related
>literally all the rest
this is really bad

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
I don't know who or what you are quoting, but it made me cringe due to its sheer mary sueness.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635582
This is just what i initially thought of at first. Not saying its perfect. I realize it needs some fixing
>>16635591
I was thinking of having the "spirit" posess some kind of weakness too. Touhou is pretty mary sue-ish to me also

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
This reads too much like a bad fanfiction.

If this is your first time writing, then I ask you to learn "moderation" and "limitation" first and foremost. The entire thing is so overly exaggerated it's completely and utterly unacceptable.

I mean, really?
>posesses power slightly greater than that of every Scarlet Devil Mansion inhabitant combined
>Yukari is eventually destroyed by her own creation
>Mokou is completely wiped from existence after she is killed, despite being immortal
This tramples on pretty much every character it's not even funny.


And by all of the higher ups of Gensokyo, if you dare do the "it's just a dream" twist, you will know true pain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635614
>Touhou is pretty mary sue-ish to me also
Right.... Name one character who could be called a Mary Sue by its true definition.

[Anonymous No.]

>>Chen dies

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635619
At the end, this "evil spirit" character is destroyed. That's what i was thinking the whole time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
>Chen dies
stopped reading there, get the fuck outta here.

[Anonymous No.]

All I'd say is that if Chen died no one would probably care.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635646
I would.
Me and /jp/'s lolicon army.
I'm >>16635640 btw.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635634
"The spirit" has - what I'm referring to as - the ability to erase existence, given that it could somehow kill Mokou.
Without actually giving Reimu (or anyone who would defeat it later on) some kind of asspull ability, how do you expect for the incident to be resolved?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635627
I realize that there isn't a true mary sue in touhou, but there are some that come close imo
>Reimu can float above reality and become invincible but there is a time limit
Not saying there are mary sue characters. I wasnt planning on making one here either.
>>16635640
Do you have a better suggestion?
>inb4 gtfo

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635663
By giving it some kind of obvious weak point or something to make up for its massive power i guess

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
For what purpose?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
Really all Yukari has to do is to tell it to go hang out at the moon.
If "the spirit" wins, no more moonbitches to worry about and it probably won't have a way back home.
If the Lunarians win, that problem solves itself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635706
Goddammit I completely forgot about the mooncunts. That actually does sound more realistic

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
>>posesses power slightly greater than that of every Scarlet Devil Mansion inhabitant combined
Nigger how in the fuck? Raw power only gets you so far against time manipulation or being able to destroy literally anything.
>>Becomes so powerful that even Mokou is completely wiped from existence after she is killed, despite being immortal.
That's not how the Hourai Elixir works. It literally removes any death from the individual, they can't even step foot into Hell or the Netherworld.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635692
I don't know. Just fuck my shit up

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635706
That could lead to the Lunarians attempting another mass evacuation to Gensokyo like in LoLK though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635730
I doubt the Lunarians would flee unless absolutely necessary though. They only initiated that plan because absolutely NONE of their weapons could touch pure lifeforce fairies like Clownpiece. A normal, if extremely powerful, youkai like the one in OP's scenario should be susceptible to their anti-impurity weaponry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635667
>i guess
That's even... never mind.

Look, I know it's a wip, but work on the ending first. It'll give you the details you need to make the story readable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635614
>>16635634
>>16635667
Honestly all I'm getting from this is that you're probably 16 years old and just want to write babby's first fanfic, because you don't seem to have any idea on how you'd even go about writing a story that doesn't involve extremes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635664
>there are some that come close
>Reimu [...]
Ability isn't the only thing making a character "Mary Sue"

>I wasnt planning on making one here either
Great. Then scrap everything in the OP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635749
That actually makes sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635723
>time manipulation
According to FS, the only power Sakuya has is moving extremely fast.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
>Is this even realistic?
>Chen dies.
Literally stopped reading there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
>super powerful character kills everyone, non-existence nihilism lol

Heavy criticism incoming:
The way you're explaining and portraying this in your example is that it reads like every shitty edgy fanfic or doujin that murderbones 90% or more of the series cast save for their favorites and doesn't actually read any differently from a hatefic, serving only to use the series to draw attention to themselves without actually giving a shit about the source material that they're writing about. (Like most doujins and fanfics.)
When an entire cast of a series in a fanfic becomes fodder to showcase how powerful a character is, it tends to quickly become blackhole mary sue shit, which is primarily why the lunarians received so much flak in SSiB. Ironically the events in SSiB are relatively tame compared to the cancer I've witnessed.

By the way your "OC wants to kill everything into non-existence" ideas already been done by some awful crossover autist on youtube that felt like shove Touhou into their list of Mario, Pokemon, Sephiroth, Persona, other things, crossed over haphazardly into flash animation cancer.
I will not link it or mention it by name because it's fucking retarded and naming things makes them more popular and cancerous no matter how awful it is because the internet stopped having any iota of taste in the art of storytelling as long as it has shiny pictures and/or animations attached to it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
Congratulations anon, you have autism just like all of us, too bad it's the wrong kind so welcome but fuck off anyways.
Also a shame I'm on mobile, I could write a whole PhD thesis worth of posts just to call you a faggot, otherwise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
>Chen Dies
That's not possible anon. Her physical form might be destroyed but the memes will immortalize her in spirit. She will forever live on as a benevolent goddess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635903
That was in WaHH; though I'm not sure if it was brought up again in FS.
Also, Sakuya's word - as far as I can remember - was,
>What you called stopping time is merely high speed movement with zero mass
Which only implies that she can't stop time, not that she can't manipulate them.

[Anonymous No.]

Okay lets give the OP what he asked...
>Spirit has infinite potential.
>Sounds like Chen 2.0 is Superman.
>I'm actually curious what happened to Ran after all this after Yukari dies. Did she lose her power?
>If Yukari and Mokou get completely wreaked and killed, what could Reimu could do?

My biggest question is; how did the spirit kill Yukari?
>Becomes so powerful even her boundary manipulation abilities are overcome by the spirits raw, unadulterated might.
So is it infinity strong? Straight wise?

[Anonymous No.]

The thing about Power is it's like, power over what? Is it still Chens abilities? What's it do with all that "power"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635627
Eirin.

All powerful and a super genius(she just is) without any downsides. Everything nearly goes her all the time

[Anonymous No.]

>>16636037
>>16635903
We've been over this; she was bullshitting or explaining it weirdly. One line does not invalidate all the time-stopping she's done throughout the series in every one of her appearances.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
You know Yuyuko can flat out end anything that's alive right? No exceptions.

Even aside from her, the Spell Card rules were actually just written so that youkai had a chance to beat Reimu. The shrine maiden is capable of rendering herself untouchable, and if Fantasy Heaven in Imperishable Night is any indication, she can still strike in such a state.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Imperishable_Night/Spell_Cards/Last_Word

This is not written sensibly with regards to what is established. Gensokyo is a fantasy nature reserve filled with gods and devils and everything in between. To stand out by causing such trouble is nothing short of a death wish.

It's also important to note that this Chen you speak of is a shikigami. If the article of Ran getting struck repeatedly by Yukari is any indication, shikigami are at their best when they are following their master's will, and are weakened to an extreme degree if they act out. If Chen was being replaced, it would be with another shikigami, who would be similarly affected.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bohemian_Archive_in_Japanese_Red/Yukari

It's really quite unreal, how in a land full of terrifying beings, that Gensokyo chooses to favor intrigue over violence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16636546
>No exceptions.
>conveniently forgetting that the Hourai immortals exist

[Anonymous No.]

>>16636635
Oh, well them aside.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16636641
Actually yeah those guys would pose a problem too if someone started on a rampage through Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16636037
In FS when Remilia's chupacabra escapes, Sakuya catches it and the text says "can move faster than light," not "can stop time."
Of course, that could just be a translation issue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
Yeah, yeah, sure, this "spirit" is super powerful, but she doesn't have any counter to being destroyed by Flan or being killed by Yuyuko. And there wouldn't be any reason why Yukari can't just gap her to the moon, or somewhere very far away in space.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16636654
I think Yukari actually can't gap someone onto the moon under normal circumstances. She needed a reflection of the moon reflected in a lake, iirc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16636398
Yet no one ever sing praises in her name, nor do they ever go out of their way to say something like "if only Eirin was here", nor does Eirin suddenly become the reason why the scarlet mist incident was resolved.

Understand this: Mary Sue is more than what the character is. It also involves the people they interact with and the world they're in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16636649
With the principle of time dilation, moving faster than light is exactly the same as stopping time for the mover.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
What does "Chen dies" even mean? Chen is the shikigami, even if the cat hosting her dies, they can always implant Chen somewhere else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16636546
>the Spell Card rules were actually just written so that youkai had a chance to beat Reimu
The spell card rules were introduced to:
1) reign in Remilia who recently came to Gensokyo and went on a rampage, and prevent similar rampages in the future. (mentioned in SCoOW on more than one occasion)
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Who%27s_Who_of_Humans_%26_Youkai_in_Gensokyo/Remilia_and_Flandre_Scarlet
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Basic_Knowledge_of_Fantastic_Words_2015
2) let Reimu continue youkai "extermination" without putting her life in danger, and let youkai "defeat" her without killing her. (which would put the Barrier and all of Gensokyo at risk, since one of the shrine maidens' duties is watching over and maintaining the Barrier; this is spelled out in Reimu's PMiSS profile)
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Reimu_Hakurei
3) let youkai continue attacking humans, but in a non-serious way, because many youkai depend on the local humans for sustenance, and give other humans a way to fight back and "exterminate" youkai.

So the correct statement would be "the Spell Card rules were actually just written so that youkai had a chance to beat Reimu without accidentally ending her".

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
>Haven't thought of a reason why this spirit develops an evil side. Could be due to whatever went wrong when it was created.

"Chen" has an endless desire to get revenge against the mysterious "entity/whatever" that killed her, but she's not conscious of it.

This desire subconsciously overrides any of her thoughts that may go against achieving this goal. She doesn't want to kill Yukari, but she has no choice. She must have her revenge, no matter who gets in the way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16636827
At that point, you might as well make "Chen" the character in the story instead of resorting to another OC. At the very least, since we know her already, people probably won't react too negatively about it.

Of course, that pretty much tramples over the concept of shikigami, but that's another story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16636405
What kind of stuff she has done that can't be replicated by moving really fast?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
>Chen dies

Great start, OP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16636973
Didn't she shows the ability to age something? I can't remember which game though, but I believe she made a flower bloom or something to that extent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16636973
She can manipulate space, like making the SDM be/appear much larger than it is.
Accelerating age, making a flower age 40(?) years in an instant

[Anonymous No.]

>>16637085

TL;DR Sakuya's World is more like Made in Heaven Requiem.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635723
Since she absolutely cannot die, and cannot enter hell or the netherworld, is there any way she could somehow end up in some other dimension? Or does that also go against the hourai elixir, too?

>>16635752
Cool.

>>16635903
Is there any difference between the two?

>>16635980
How would you make it so it's not quite like you are describing?

>>16635999
Please, do tell.

>>16636047
>>16636363
The spirit doesn't just become insanely powerful on its own. I was thinking of having it posess some sort of item (like a jewel or some shit) and if said item is destroyed, then the spirit is too. As far as what you mean by power, it doesn't have infinite strength, but there isn't a limit to how powerful it can become which is what makes it so dangerous. This spirit could possibly retain some of Chen's abilities.

As to how Yukari was killed? I havent thought of that yet.

>>16636787
Right, but something happens that makes this whole thing go awry

>>16636827
>>16636863
This idea is a lot better that what i came up with. I like this.

[Anonymous No.]

Are you unable to speak in complete sentences so you type in bullet points like a 6th grader's notes before he writes a rough draft? Perhaps you just have the attention span of an anesthetized cat and normal writing requires every one of your synapses to fire, sending you into a mouth-foaming seizure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
This is super dumb.
Like the dumbest shit I have ever read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635903
She was contextualizing her ability you mouth breather. All she's really saying is that she can't kidnap people by stopping time and stealing them, her power doesn't work that way. She can still stop time, but there's some sort of limit to what she can do, which makes sense because otherwise she could practically kill anyone by stopping time and stabbing them multiple times.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635558
Shit bait. 0/10 made me respond

[Anonymous No.]

>>16635723
>they can't even step foot into Hell or the Netherworld
Stahp. This was an awful misinterpretation that somehow spread rapidly. I thought we had finally killed it because the last time I heard someone say this was months ago.

>>16638684
is there any way she could somehow end up in some other dimension?
Wut? No. She just respawns immediately. It isn't like you kill her and then she "goes somewhere". Her soul is like a permanent fixture of the universe.

>>16639296
>because otherwise she could practically kill anyone by stopping time and stabbing them multiple times
But she could do that, by all indications. Yeah, she's just describing how her ability functions in one respect (which has remained consistent since at least BAiJR), but that isn't a good example.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16641763
>Stahp. This was an awful misinterpretation that somehow spread rapidly. I thought we had finally killed it because the last time I heard someone say this was months ago.
Not him, but I'm curious. What's the correct interpretation?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16642205
This incident was caused from the dialogue of IN Extra, in which right before you fight, Mokou says something ~deep~ for each team. In Ghost Team's there's the following and its translation:
>成仏を忘れた亡霊は新たな生を生まない。
>死ねない人間は色鮮やかな冥界を知らない。
>Ghosts who have forgotten Nirvana cannot be reborn.
>Humans that can't die cannot know the vivid Netherworld.

This is followed by a relevant passage from a poem by Kuukai, a very famous buddhist monk. The meaning of the above lines are continued by the poem, but it's really dense with information so go read the wiki if you want to know more. Basically it's about Samsara and comparing Yuyuko the ghost to Mokou the immortal, both of which have left the cycle of reincarnation.

Problem here is that people took "humans that can't die can't know the netherworld" and one of two things happened:
- Instead it was said that they can't "enter" the Netherworld (figuratively), and then that was misconstrued (a second time) as a literal inability to enter
- They decided to be really dumb and think that you can't enter because then that would mean you'd "know" the Netherworld
However it happened, this misinterpretation spread like wildfire because it stuck in people's brains somehow, and a large number of people adopted the thought that Mokou and Kaguya couldn't literally be inside the Netherworld.

There were also additional problems with Eirin, since this was also around the time people realized the IN endings were translated super badly and there was conflict about whether or not Eirin had taken the Hourai Elixir. Since Eirin visits the Netherworld in the Ghost Team's Good ending, this line caused people to think she hadn't taken the Elixir / wasn't immortal. This is despite the fact that, properly translated, that very ending is what establishes that Eirin drank the Hourai Elixir.

The whole situation was a massive clusterfuck.