j-pop slave contracts

[Anonymous No.]

I know you guys love your j-pop
how do you feel about "slave contracts"? How do you justify it?

For those who don't know, j-pop/k-pop idols sign a really shitty contract depraving them of basic rights. They have to work ungodly hours, sometimes being deprived of sleep, have limited contact to their family, under really strict control, banned from having any relationship to keep their "pure" image and so fans can feel like they have a chance of being with them. Their banned from common things such as having cell phones even.

These contracts can go on for dozens of years
Naturally every contract is different, some 7 years, some 22, some worse than others when it comes to treatment than others. But regardless it's cruel and unfair. They're systematically chained and scrubbed to appeal to people in the most efficient and calculated way by executives

[Anonymous No.]

Nobody becomes an idol or a pop star without aspiring to it. They knew what they were signing up for.

If I had a real complaint I think it'd be that the pay is relatively shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>They're systematically chained

You forgot the part where they're free to quit any time, and many do.

[Anonymous No.]

You're a moron if you actually believe the shit they tell you on Shitkaku and ANN and other ``serious'' news outlets about Japanese idols. Consider departing from the world of the living.

Oh, and post in one of the idol threads in the future, shitter. You just killed off one decent thread just to have this one appear on the front page.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13776797
>decent thread
/jp/ doesn't have any decent threads and you know it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13776797
>denial
BBC reported on it
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-13760064
Al-jazeera brought it up here
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2012/01/2012126171244109114.html
And there's been many official lawsuits and releases
Here's info about official Korea fair trade commission regulations on the matter
https://coolsmurf.wordpress.com/2008/11/21/korea-fair-trade-commission-orders-10-entertainment-companies-to-modify-slavery-contract-terms/

>>13776781
1 decision you made at 18 years shouldnt lock you down for 13 years like that.

And yes, they chose to sign up for it. That doesn't mean what they're doing is ethical.
It'd be very well possible for them to also choose to sign up for something that doesn't restrict them from talking with their family and friends, and lets them eat and not go hungry as part of a strict diet

[Anonymous No.]

>>13776829
These articles are about korean groups and not japanese idols.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13776870
Mostly because that's what's most well documented, seeing as k-pop is more well known in America, especially after Psy.
Here's some stuff about j-pop specifically
http://thespillblog.co.uk/2011/07/31/the-dark-heart-of-j-pop/
Also, "slave contract" is a korean term, so searching about info on slave contract will bring you to korean stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>Their banned from common things such as having cell phones even.

Which is why they blog, tweet, film Vines and have LINE chats with them basically all day long?
OP, there's no point arguing with you when you're so much misinformed. Get cancer and die.

[Anonymous No.]

And this is worse than American Pop contracts where the artist not only receives next to nothing but pays for everything out of the little money they do receive?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13776968
First of all, I said that this isn't all contracts, since contracts vary from studio to studio.
However it does happen for some
http://www.allkpop.com/article/2013/12/crayon-pop-reveal-they-want-cell-phones-as-christmas-presents
>It is not uncommon for idol stars to be deprived of cell phones during their earlier years.

Besides, since every aspect of them seems to be groomed and planned to keep their image, it's not unthinkable that they'd have social media managers uploading content for them, ect.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13776979
>it's not unthinkable that they'd have social media managers
It's funny, because this is how every professional company acts. I'm working for a medium-sized game development studio, and do you see me going about and posting just whatever I want on our official webpage? No. Everything is filtered by PR staff, and why should it not be? That's how the world works.

[Anonymous No.]

Minegishi is so ugly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13776979
Why the fuck did you create a thread criticizing j-pop idols when all your examples only concern Korean gooks? Is this a joke?
You seem to be lost, there's a general on /mu/ where they discuss this shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13776775
I'm all for idols unionizing, getting adequate pay and stable working hours. Or better yet, taking over their companies and turning them into cooperatives, so the profits get directly to them rather than to some sleazy executives.

But you know what, OP? The people from sweatshops making those shoes and t-shirt I'm currently wearing have it even worse, and I don't feel like I have to justify wearing them. What do you propose I do? Stop buying them and make the sweatshop people lose the job? That'll sure help them.

[Anonymous No.]

Complaining about idols going through idol-things to become idols is fucking pointless. If you want to be famous AND fuck around at private, try being a person with actual talent (eg. singer, actor, dancer).

[Anonymous No.]

>>13776972
Believe me, american contracts blow ass too, record companies fuck over the musicians bad.

But at least there they're given freedom and can talk to their family when they want
>>13777034
Alright yeah, thats a pretty good point, i give you that you dont need to justify anything.
I suppose it just feels different since idols are in the spotlight so much and have people constantly praising/worshipping them
>>13777038
The point is that what those "idol things" entail are shitty and should be changed.
Almost all of the people in said groups don't really know exactly what they're signing up for, it's shitty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777047
>they're given freedom and can talk to their family when they want
Does the opposite actually happen? Most of the girls in the AKB groups for example live with their parents.

[Anonymous No.]

It only applies to "idols", regular jpop artists don't have it that bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777047
Go whine to the Korean board already. Or if you don't, stop fucking talking about Korea. Might as well point to Vietnamese sweatshops while crying about Japanese working conditions.

If you choose a career without knowing the first shit about it, 1. you're retarded, and 2. you can always leave, go to college and get a real job.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777059
Maybe? Hard to say. Since it's most of them and not all, i doubt it. Part of me wants to think it's for financial reasons since the executives and label take an unfair amount of the money, but there's no way they get fucked over THAT bad, r-right?

>>13777066
>>If you choose a career without knowing the first shit about it, 1. you're retarded
Theres a lot of shit they wouldn't be able to know about or expect.
For a fun example, prostitution. It's not uncommon at all, and is an open secret, that sexual favors are sold and passed around, against their will.

[Anonymous No.]

Huh. Can't they just break off from it? Can't they just say "I quit"? Or are the studios just gonna go full feudal and slice them if they do?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777121
>Theres a lot of shit they wouldn't be able to know about or expect.
Maybe if they were retarded children who don't watch television, use the internet, talk to people in the industry and were generally incapable of performing any due diligence whatsoever.

>It's not uncommon at all, and is an open secret, that sexual favors are sold and passed around, against their will.
A top-performing idol is a valuable asset. If she starts sucking executive dick that's potentially tens of millions of dollars down the drain. CEOs of defense companies aren't going to take fighter jets on joyrides for the sheer fun of it. It's business.

>>13777133
If you're a kenkyuusei and you want to leave, you're out. Nobody cares about you anyway. If you're somebody, you'll get a graduation, unless you leave on really ugly terms, in which case they'll just stop talking about you because it's bad for press.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777153
>If she starts sucking executive dick that's potentially tens of millions of dollars down the drain.
haha no
it's like 220-990 usd for a private "meeting"
don't pull numbers out of your ass
http://www.soompi.com/2013/03/30/female-trainee-opens-up-about-the-reality-of-sexual-favors-in-korean-entertainment-industry/
http://www.soompi.com/2013/03/30/female-trainee-opens-up-about-the-reality-of-sexual-favors-in-korean-entertainment-industry/

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777167
And you can fuck a Vietnamese bar girl for twenty bucks, but that has nothing to do with the Japanese idol industry.

[Anonymous No.]

So, like this?

[Anonymous No.]

They aren't forced to do anything. She buzzed her own head too.

[Anonymous No.]

Did some faggot confuse Japanese idols with Korean idols?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777376
yeah this was already brought up
it happens in both places, its just way more documented about k-pop since that's more popular, especially overseas

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777384
Show me a 22 year Japanese contract then.

[Anonymous No.]

How come nobody said "Fuck off, tumblr" yet?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777392
okay
here
http://aramajapan.com/news/namie-amuro-is-ready-to-leave-her-22-year-slave-contract/5293/

exactly 22 years. japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777250
What manga is this from?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777410
>Shukan Bunshun

lmao. Signing to the same company of your own accord every few years is not the same as signing one long 22 year contract. And you do know that's is a tabloid, yes?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777410
She terminated an existing contract, meaning 1. it's not a slave contract if you can leave (pretty much by definition), and 2. there's no indication that she signed a 22 year contract in 1992, which would be spectacularly fucking stupid.

You haven't documented shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777410
There's a thing called resigning to the same agency every couple years not one prolonged 22 year contract. Even your kpop idols do it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777428
>>13777430
>>13777439
>>13777410
In this case there was apparently some kind of old-as-shit agreement that was signed way back when. It's the first I've heard of something like this, but I don't listen to J-pop and don't care much about the industry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777461
>I don't listen to jpop and don't care much about the industry

Why the fuck are you on/ /jp/ then faggot? Stop trying compare jpop to kpop if you don't know jack shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777461
Did you just pull that out of your ass? No company is going to sign a singer for 22 years in the future. They barely want to do it for 2.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777479
I'm not OP.

>Why the fuck are you on /jp/
/jp/ isn't the J-pop board. Not even remotely.

>>13777489
Google says that she was specially sponsored by the president of Rising Pro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777461
regardless of the specifics involving the years, she said herself it was a slave contract.
It happens plenty, it's acknowledged. Why would it be exclusive to korea? plenty of other shady shit goes on with japanese music industries
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2009/feb/11/turning-japanese-music-moguls

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777503
Yeah, and? If circumstances change and she doesn't like it, she can sign to another company like what's she is doing right now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777518
>It happens plenty, it's acknowledged.
Then bring on a source instead of vaguely referring to the fact that there are tons of sources out there just waiting to be found.

>Why would it be exclusive to korea?
Korea isn't Japan any more than it's Germany.

>http://www.theguardian.com/music/2009/feb/11/turning-japanese-music-moguls
Usually when we refer to idols in /jp/ we're not referring to boy bands, since it's a board composed near-entirely of straight males and the occasional lost dyke.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777518
You think it doesn't happen in other countries? The entertainment biz is not a place of angels. You've heard of the "casting couch" yet?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777534
>Then bring on a source instead of vaguely referring to the fact that there are tons of sources out there just waiting to be found.

Did you see the article i posted
let me quote some of it for you

>Kita Koji, one of the original members of the Four Seasons, published an exposé that accued Kitagawa of sexual harassment and rape. Opening the flood gates, similar accusations from other ex-members came to light, with fresh exposés being published right up to this decade.

>>13777540
Yeah? The problem is widespread. Doesn't make it ethical suddenly. This is /jp/, so I'm discussing this.
And it's possible to discuss one specific side of an issue without discussing the every aspect of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777553
Oh, look a sjw. Yes, it's Japan's problem. How about letting them fix it themselves? :3

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777417
Name: Back Street Girls
Author: ジャスミン・ギュ/Jasmine Gyu
Genre: Comedy, gender bender, surgery, yakuzas(?)
Plot: The boss of a yakuza gang has realized that the big money is on idol groups. After their latest failure, he makes them a proposition they can't refuse: Be turned into female performers or ending their lives.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777553
>Did you see the article I posted
Yes, I did, and I replied.
>Usually when we refer to idols in /jp/ we're not referring to boy bands.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777566
how is that remotely sjw
It's not really a japan issue its more of a human issue anyway m8

>>13777572
I understand, but that doesn't change anything. I'm not referring to females only, i'm referring to the industry as a whole. The gender of someone doesnt somehow change the ethics of anything

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777581
>human issue
>they sign the contract themselves

LOL

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777581
>i'm referring to the industry as a whole.
Johnny fucked a bunch of teenagers back in the day, big fucking whoop. Next is the part where you substantiate allegations that modern idols are passed around like fuck dolls.

If all you're going to whine about is shit /jp/ doesn't care about (like K-pop and boy bands) you're free to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777587
I wonder if they lay out the terms of the whole raping thing in the contract

>>13777592
>nobody cares about the abuse of people if they're not kawaii japanese girls
well
shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777596
There, there faggot boy. One day somebody will sign you to a 22 year singing contract too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777596
>nobody cares about the abuse of people if they're not kawaii japanese girls
If you want to care about abuse go be aghast at actual child prostitution in Cambodia where the prostitutes are starving children rather than high-profile pop stars members, or all those people getting beheaded in the Middle East.

/jp/ is a hobby board, not a human interest board.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777614
its possible to care about more than 1 thing at a time. I'm against multiple things.

And just because it's a hobby board doesnt mean issues involving said hobbies cant be brought up/discussed

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777642
Fuck off already, retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777645
Okay!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13777642
Unfortunately you picked hobbies that nobody cares about.

[Anonymous No.]

Do /jp/ really look like a pond full of healthy, delicious fish?

[Anonymous No.]

Holy shit, OP, you are such a faggot.
Idols know what they're signing for, this is very alike to the modeling business from the fashion industry; everyone knows how stressful it is, how you can be abused, have to stay thin and all that shit.

Yet sluts are stampeding in agencies' direction. THEY are sustaining the abusive employers, thus, in my book, they DESERVE being abused.
If they actually wish for change, they should do it as a collective mind of workers in that field, founding some Trade Union that actually protects their interests.

But no, if 100 idols go on strike or challenge their bosses to fight for THEIR well-being, 1000 other plastic faces will audit and fill their spots. A proper Trade Union could pressure this kind of opportunistic shit for unfair competition.

Currently, it's all about being loved by others at all costs out of not loving yourself. They subscribe for sacrifice and then repent when it finally comes the toll. You don't see doctors complaining about abuse, do you? They're a hivemind of principles and learn mutual protection practices since college.

But what do you know, from the top of your social media feed, huh? You don't know shit. You don't even know the difference between Your and You're. Fucktard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13783840
Thank for bumping this shitty thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13783846
I would have saged if this captcha system hadn't hijack me twice.
Yay for teaching robots how to break their own security systems.

[Anonymous No.]

muh contracts
so consensual

[Anonymous No.]

>>13776829
>1 decision you made at 18 years shouldnt lock you down for 13 years like that.
You'll need to gro- Oh, I almost forgot where I was. Carry on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13783981
Here, I fix'd it.

[Anonymous No.]

I like idols, but I just can't enjoy an idol performance if I know that behind the scenes she's being overworked and treated like shit to give me that performance. I'm not that self-centered. It being not as bad as in Korea or in the Middle East doesn't mean I approve of it. That's why I mostly follow and support underground/chika idols and freelancers. But hey, it's just me.

That said, many agencies treat their idols pretty well, most of the time the smallest ones. That's why it's good to investigate them individually, rather than generalizing the whole industry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13783981
being part of an idol group is much like starving to death in the middle of the ocean with some cosmetic differences

[Anonymous No.]

>>13783981
Except you won't drown if you back out of a contract. At worst, you'll be stuck living like everyone else.

The real equivalent to this would be like having them sign a contract that explicitly says you might be kicked off at any time for any reason in the middle of the sea. And then being able to look up previous people who went on the boat and finding it was actually enforced. This is obviously such an unrealistic and absurd example of a person literally fucking killing someone as if the issue is an extreme black and white.

If it's not "worth it", then people shouldn't do it. If they have no choice but to either go with the contract or not do it, then they're going to have to make a decision. I don't buy into this idea that because some people make dumb decisions we have to change the rules they agreed to and signed up for to pity them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784044
So putting the blame on the bullied instead of the bully?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784060
Most idols are fucking retarded or they wouldn't be idols, they have an idealized view of the idol world and don't know what the fuck they're signing for until they're going through it.
Besides, it's common knowledge that contracts are written in an intentionally misleading way. If you were honest and direct in your contracts no one would sign for your shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784069
If you don't lock your house at night, yes, don't cry when thieves come visit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784069
It's hard to call it bullying, really.

If you don't want to hold responsibility for doing something or living under certain conditions then don't voluntarily assume responsibility for it by making a deal with someone.

Seriously, this is like signing up to be a coal miner and then feeling cheated by the fact that your body hurts and it's dark and you're miserable, you have to hit things all day and sometimes things collapse around you.

>>13784090
I mean, you can't fix people who put themselves in bad situations, really, or prohibit people from making uneven contracts. If that was the case, almost no one could offer anyone a job. The only thing I would consider appropriate would be regulating the age or education level or something of people signing for certain kinds of contracts. If they don't fit the requirements, the contract is deemed invalid. Perhaps there could be a specialized course or a lawyer would have to interpret it.

But yeah contracts are misleading. Kind of. But only misleading in the sense that they aren't always specific. "I can throw you off for any reason" includes everything, even not blowing them. Or just because they feel like it at the time.

I admit that I have a bit of a problem with people trying to "fix" the bad decisions of others because it prevents some people from really doing what they want. Sometimes, people actually are up for absurd contracts that could be considered inhumane and they're happy to have any opportunity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784136
What a fucking idiotic way of looking at the world.
With this line of reasoning you're justifying murder because the victim didn't defend himself properly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784155
It's not really idiotic.

It's the most useful idea of life actually: "Don't be a fucking idiot and make a victim out of yourself".

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784155
>>13784180
I kind of disagree with both of you halfway. While it's definitely the fault of the thieves and the homeowner is innocent, life does not care about fault and you should do everything you can to protect yourself. Just because something isn't your fault doesn't mean you couldn't have prevented it and in the end that matters far more than any social concept like blame.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13776829
>1 decision you made at 18 years shouldnt lock you down for 13 years like that.

Student loans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784060
>>13784141
>>13784205
Thank you for the back up, dude.

As for the lawyer education, I think it's not necessary if a Trade Union or any other sort of regularization is enforcing good practices in the market. What do you say on this subject?

I understand the concept of people willing to go through shit for a job, but doesn't that fall under unfair competition, as I stated above? Some minimum standards of dignity should be attainable.

But of course, idols being this sort of plastic public image, I see how publishers might want to put lots of rules to preserve the idols' stupidness/slutiness hidden from the public.

It's a triple "blame". Idols for putting up with this shit, publishers for carrying it and fans for demanding it.

One leg has to be removed to end this situation, and that, I believe, should be the idol one, since they are the "victims".

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784205
I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm not saying the victim shouldn't take counter-measures for well-common crimes, it's everyone's responsibility after all. But if someone is a victim of crime, you can't completely justify the thief by putting all the blame on the victim because he didn't take the proper counter-measures. That line of reasoning is completely backwards, and it's similar to people in this thread blaming the idols for "signing the contract", or if any of them are ever victims of exploitation then "Well, they wished for it!". This can also be applied to every job, not just idols.

Besides, not all people are smart as you, and blaming them for being stupid or naive is nothing but lack of empathy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784238
>It's a triple "blame". Idols for putting up with this shit, publishers for carrying it and fans for demanding it.
I think this is the most reasonable stance, but you can still debate which ones are the most conscious of their actions and their impact, and which ones aren't.

>Trade Union
Can they even do this? I mean, idols mostly work individually, they encounter each other only accidentally, they don't have a "workplace" where they can discuss or organize. Besides I don't think there's culture about this in Japan, I'm guessing you'd get immediately labeled as some radical anti-Japanese leftist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784238
>Trade Union
Would be the beginning of the downfall of the industry. Or, at least, would turn it into a cartel of powerful groups that churn out only the bottom-line of products.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784238
>trade union regulation
>What do you say on this subject?
It would be difficult. Practically, I'm not sure I could set out the details to make this work because I haven't thought very hard about it and a balance would have to be made between allowing people to know what they're getting into, making sure nothing they're doing is illegal while also not forcing it in the other direction where they receive unnecessary benefits for things a lot of people can and are willing to do.

>doesn't that fall under unfair competition
>minimum standards of dignity
The problem is I think this is a matter of perspective. If some people want it more and are willing to do more, who are we to say it's incorrect for them to have to compete with people who don't want it so badly? That does mean the workers won't get as good of a deal, but it also means they'll be more dedicated and serious about it.

>It's a triple "blame".
In a way, yes. But in a way, no. Idols just want to get a good deal. Publishers just want to get a good deal. Fans just want to be entertained. Everyone is agreeing to the circumstances here even if everything isn't totally pretty because everyone in the chain wants as much as they can get. In a way, that's just business, I guess. It's definitely a balance. I think the most realistic means of enforcement would lie in the publishers AND the idols because you can't regulate fans out of liking something.

>>13784243
>you can't completely justify the thief
Well, I wouldn't. At the same time, criminals don't care about the deeper social purposes of their crimes. They want stuff and they get stuff. We can't stop them by asking them not to (as the law already does) but we can proactively prevent crimes through safety. Of course life is always a risk and things just happen.

>and it's similar to people in this thread blaming the idols for "signing the contract"
I consider it different because the contract is laid out for them.

2K chars

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784298 (followup)

>>13784243
>Besides, not all people are smart as you, and blaming them for being stupid or naive is nothing but lack of empathy.
Well, people don't have to be smart. That's why I think the regulation should be centered around making sure they understand, to the most reasonable extent possible, what contracts entail either through education or having someone interpret it for them. Should probably have other limits too on things like age to make sure 13 year old girls don't end up stuck in a dumb situation. You know, make sure it's definitely all legal and expires when they turn 18 so they must sign a new contract.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784298
>They want stuff and they get stuff. We can't stop them by asking them not to
Why do they "want stuff"? Why do they steal?
They won't stop if we ask them to because they have a motivation behind it. What's that motivation? Remove the motivation and the crime is unnecessary. Only then you're fixing the problem; anything else is looking away and pretending everything is fine. There's a reason why some countries have lower crime rates, and it's not because people are better at defending themselves.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784317
To answer your question completely honestly, I don't know. I want stuff too and I don't steal. Most people want stuff. A lot of people have thrown out poverty as a reason but even that only accounts for it sometimes. My point was more that someone, somewhere will always do bad things even if they know they're bad and that's the world and we'll never completely fix it, only reduce it. And how do we reduce it without other/bigger consequences? I don't know. The first thing to come to mind is a prison reform but that would get seriously offtopic and probably take up a whole thread of its own. Let's just say things aren't working out in America and they are in Scandinavia where laws are more laid back and prison more reasonable rather than vengeful, but that could just be a cultural thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784312
>That's why I think the regulation should be centered around making sure they understand, to the most reasonable extent possible, what contracts entail either through education or having someone interpret it for them.
Why not regulation that disallows publishers and agencies to engage in these practices in the first place?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784243
Differently from a thief, you invite publishers to fuck your ass by agreeing. It's a scheduled robbery that people will latter regret.
>lack of empathy
So be it. I'm not only blaming them for being stupid, but also for not taking action against it.

If anything, I blame them for not standing up on their own behalf and I don't think people like OP trying to beg for my empathy are in their right.

Besides, not all people are Jesus as you, and blaming me for being unsympathetic or smart is nothing but harassment.

>>13784256
>>13784262
>>13784298
I don't know how TUs work in your countries, but I see the point. What are the other options, then? Even if independent industries find their way on the big screens, there will always be the "idol sweatshops" if no one is regulating it, cattering to the less networked or less talented ones that want a shot.

>>13784317
>removing greed from every person in the world is the solution
You are fucking stupid. Plus, Japan is one of these low-crime countries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784358
Oh right someone's harassing you on 4chan by calling you an autistic asshole.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784355
>Why not regulation that disallows publishers and agencies to engage in these practices in the first place?
Well, it depends. "These practices" could mean a lot of things and I think not letting people date, while kind of silly, is not some horrible violation of human rights if they agree to it. Forced prostitution on the other hand is. I don't think it would be appropriate to regulate out anything that isn't really fucking bad because it's saying people should never, ever, in the privacy of their own spaces in their own agreements, by law, in fear of being locked up, agree to these circumstances.

>>13784358
>there will always be the "idol sweatshops" if no one is regulating it, cattering to the less networked or less talented ones that want a shot.
Is that inherently a problem? They're less networked or less talented and they're still being thrown a hand. Should they just have no chance at all? Or at least a significantly reduced one, or should they be able to fight for it if they want it enough?

I'm not for total deregulation but yeah.

[Anonymous No.]

Unions ruined America, it's gonna ruin Japan too.

Hey, maybe they will outsource "idol" to some SEA and chink bitches.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784407
>not letting people date
No, I think the strict control over their lives apply to all famous people (although in idols case it could be especially degrading). I'm talking more about systematic issues like overwork. For example, two Love Live idols suffered from throat injuries and leg injuries respectively after they started doing doing live events extensively last year.

But I think this is a generalized problem in all industries of Japan, overwork is too common, it's just that overwork in the idol industry makes it more apparent for westerners. It's no wonder they have a word for 過労死.

>>13784458
I guess our experience is different, because in my country unions are the only thing that have prevented the industry from becoming another hole of overworked salarymen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784491
What is your country and its economic status?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784491
Really, the only reason for this is an oversupply of idols. People always go arond finding problems and think they have the solution, but the best and most painless soltion is always to jst leave it, and let it fix itself naturally - word goes out that the idol business is shit -> less people want to become idols -> idols become scarcer and therefore more valuable -> idols get paid and treated better -> idols won't work for shit contracts anymore -> being an idol beocmes attractive as a career again -> more people want to become idols -> rinse and repeat. I'll you're doing is throwing a wrench somewhere in the cycle and making it go places no one can predict.

[Anonymous No.]

Why are we still feeding this thread?
>>13784243
>that line of reasoning is completely backwards, and it's similar to people in this thread blaming the idols for "signing the contract", or if any of them are ever victims of exploitation then "Well, they wished for it!". This can also be applied to every job, not just idols.
It's also completely right. Don't want that job? Don't sign for it.
Don't like your country? Go abroad.

What? You want your cake and eat it too?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784556
Yeah, why improve things if we can just run away from them?
What a pathetic waste of space you are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784574
You are not improving things but just hurt the industries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784592
How is it "hurting" the industries?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784603
The industries must treat idols better while idols are freer to produce lower quality works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784615
At the detriment of consumers too.

People don't realize the industries don't need idols, idols need the industries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784615
...What?

You're implying that
1. Industries treating people better is a bad thing
2. People have to be treated badly to produce "good quality works" (while in reality better work conditions lead to better results)

Is this what you're saying? If I got it correctly, then "lack of empathy" is nowhere as accurate because if that's what you really think then you're a borderline psychopath.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784651
As said, look at America.

Trade unions rise up, the industries go international and they move their operations in China while americans whine about not getting job. And nowadays, with their operations, China's economics fucking grow in rival with America.

Capitalism is not about empathetic, it's about result.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784651
Have you ever worked a real job? Because your naivete tells me you're either unemployed or something like a sociologist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784659
Let me guess. You're a libertarian.

>>13784660
Oh right, the "naive" card. I was expecting that one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784672
Indeed I'm a libertarian.

And sorry, I can't take you seriously after that.

Corporate whines and they take action, worker bees don't do shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784672
>>13784660
>>13784659
>>13784651

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784672
The "naive card" was just a comment - the real question was - have you ever ha a real job in your life?

Though, since if you did have a real job, you've have rubbed it in my face now, I might be right to presume that you're some sort of "humanities" graduate (or even dropout).

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784651
>>13784672
Fucking communist.

I bet you think that everyone is equal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784686
...this thread is about idol regulation issue, which is political in nature.

Like Rumia, go back to class.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784692
You aren't talking about idols anymore.

Please remember that the Jan-Jan is now deleting explicitly /pol/ content.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784707
It's not a /pol/fag it's a reverse shitposting SJW (you).

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784707
We still do though.

And if he deletes, so be it, but the thread was political from the get go.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784716
Wow, your anus is still sore, SJW mangina.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784680
Don't worry friend, I've never taken someone who puts profit over people seriously. We're even.

>>13784689
>I bet you think that everyone is equal.
No, of course I don't. They aren't, and that's exactly why I think like I do.

>>13784686
Sorry, will stop.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784719
Oh, so now I get it. Your 15 year old brain thinks that if you spew SJW bullshit on the Internet and whiteknight ugly translandwhales, for some reason they will take pity on you and let you like lolicon even though you support laws that make them illegal?

This is why 15 year olds don't belong on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784719
Well, not much to talk about then.

We're different on principles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784707
Let him come. Idiots won't have their dogma unchallenged in before this thread is pruned

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784712
>>13784716
warosubros on the prowl again I see

politics is boring. go away

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784734
Kek, good job showing your true colors SJW cuck. I wonder if this "crossie" (if you can even call someone who doesn't come from 4chan that) actually fools some /jp/ autists into thinking he's right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784732
>Idiots won't have their dogma unchallenged
It's the big warosu false-flagging /pol/posting to derail threads

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784686
>>13784707
>>13784734
Please don't use Rumia to shitpost.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784745
What? I was the guy who started spamming posts of a /pol/ retard.

It all began when both of us started shitposting as the other camp.

I think he went back to his board.

It was pretty fun through.

[Anonymous No.]

Please keep going on and spam this kuso sure to dead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784686
Ist das so?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13776775
JUST

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>everyone is not equal ~said by YOU
you don't even have your own wikipedia page rofl

[Anonymous No.]

>>13785260
Wrong, you silly retard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784243
>Besides, not all people are smart as you, and blaming them for being stupid or naive is nothing but lack of empathy.
Why do you think it's necessary to aid stupid people who become idols (in one of the most well-educated countries of the world), but at the same time fight stupid people who become thieves?

They are both contributing to a hazardous ecosystem for others out of their own ignorance.
I know the thief is more blatantly doing it, but where do you draw the line?

This empathy-driven approach, instead of a more logical one, leads people to defend criminals even when they're threatening other people who "need" to be defended.

["Disability-san !!aPTb8MypbuH No.]

No one agrees to it being right.
Come on.
You really think anyone knows this crap?
No one does.
They turn on their tv and music and digest it without thinking twice about it.
Everyone in Japan has become completely trusting of anything their superiors say from all ranges of life.

Gaijin who've stayed in Japan for a long time will tell you there is an iron triangle in Japan.
The media/news, the police, and the government.

Why even make a thread on this when probably deny everything you're saying because it is inconvenient to their pleasures and comfortably.

Blame the parents of all the idols.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13785601
I'll blame you for being such a retarded shitposter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13785601
Who cares, man?

No big wars will be fought during your lifetime.

[Anonymous No.]

nanjing
never forget

japanese men are worse than niggers

[Anonymous No.]

>>13785708
Never happened.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13785724
你们西方猪爱小岛猴阴茎精子，不要你，猴子恋人？

["Disability-san !!aPTb8MypbuH No.]

>>13785607
Great contribution.
>>13785696
That had nothing to do with this thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>13784719
>Don't worry friend, I've never taken someone who puts profit over people seriously.
Business puts profit over people. Nobody cares if you don't take them seriously. They still have all the money and still call all the shots.

[Anonymous No.]

Idols are closer to reality "stars" than western popstars. They're stupid kids willing to ruin their lifes for 15 min of fame, regardless having zero chances of making it as a legit artists. Parents should know better but Japan is a fucked up place

[Anonymous No.]

>>13776775
Don't like it? Don't sign it.

Fame always comes at a price. You know what you are signing on for. And if you didn't read the fine print then that's your own problem.