Forbidden Scrollery Chapter 28: The Kappa's Grimoire First Part

[Anonymous No.]

Forbidden Scrollery Chapter 28 spoiler thread right now at http://dec.2chan.net/55/res/4821997.htm

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548166
ALLAH KEBAB

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548166

[Anonymous No.]

Not much happened this chapter

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548190
The Kappa's are cute with their little sperm/myon kaps.

[Anonymous No.]

nitori still exists?
several nitoris even?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548239
The Kappa appear quite often in Forbidden Scrollery and Wild and Horned Hermit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548239
Read the written works, the kappa appear quite often actually.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548190
Nitori looks like a damn grade schooler.

[Anonymous No.]

Chapt 27 rought draft: http://www.mediafire.com/download/mfqjtnt1juwwg7n/Forbidden+Scrollery+27%28v+0.5%29.rar

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548323
Bueno.

[Anonymous No.]

Welcome

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548348
They suddenly flipped the reading order in those last two panels
whut

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548333
what a nerd

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548348
What a bunch of dorks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548333
neat. Even if it was short it was fun to hear Rinnosuke's bullshit ramblings again.

[Anonymous No.]

The girls are so lovely in FS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548190
Nitori gets younger every day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548348
Marisa is the main character of Touhou since OSP, she's always the one interacting with everyone even when she absolutely does not fit in like when ZUN made her the interviewer in SoPM and makes friends with everyone too whereas everyone just hates Reimu like in >>13548258.

Get fucked, Reimu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548854
> everyone just hates Reimu like in >>13548258.

In your example, the Kappa are exploiting Reimu's standing to attract more humans. No hate towards Reimu there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548876
They're obviously pointing out how Reimu is a lying, hypocritical, scamming bitch. It's not just that example, it's all of Touhou, nobody likes her, they just use her. Look at everyone's victory dialogue in HM against her, they treat her like the shit she is, Nitori calls her out the hardest.

She's only getting bitchier, annoying, childish, greedy and more unlikeable as time goes on, look at her shooting Kogasa with needles simply because she asked for payment for her services.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548894
Fuck off count.
And you know very well everyone turns into smug bitch mode in the games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548894
You should maybe remember that everyone Reimu treats poorly is a monster, an enemy of humanity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548927
>Fuck off count.
Actually the count deserved it, that's not something I'm going to reprimand Reimu for, unlike everything else.
>And you know very well everyone turns into smug bitch mode in the games.
But it's not just the games, it's absolutely everything, the manga are the best example. The games show it too, there's been people here who said they stopped liking Reimu after UFO where she went into maximum bitch mode in her A route.
>>13548931
Pfft, yeah right, even Akyuu has shat on Reimu like when the latter crashed the party in SoPM and started screaming like a whiny little bitch and Akyuu said that everyone in the room looked in disgust at Reimu.

She goes against ''humanity'' too since she is jealous and hates Byakuren despite her promoting peace between humans and youkai, all because she's more succesful. She only cares about getting people's money, she's the most selfish, childish, annoying, whiny, greedy and unlikeable of not only all religious leaders but the entire cast.

You can see ZUN really trying to show that by making her bitchier as the manga go on, compare SSiB Reimu to WaHH Reimu, it's like a completely different character, she regressed in maturity somehow, it's not just the artstyle.

[Anonymous No.]

Touhou 1: Reimu goes on a homicidal rampage.
Touhou 2: Reimu seeks revenge for Mima's revenge for Reimu's previous rampage.
Touhou 3: Reimu interferes with academia and scientific progress.
Touhou 4: Reimu kills a youkai who tried to help her.
Touhou 5: Reimu orphans Alice and destroys an entire world for its creator's belief in the free market.
Touhou 6: Reimu places a little girl who wanted to go flower gazing under house arrest.
Touhou 7: Reimu prevents an innocent girl from being revived.
CoLA: Reimu mugs a youkai for reading.
Touhou 7.5: Reimu breaks up parties.
Touhou 8: Reimu strips Gensokyo of its defences against a Lunar invasion.
Touhou 9: Reimu attacks people for no good reason.
Touhou 10: Reimu oppresses other religions.
Touhou 10.5: Reimu endorses slave labor.
Touhou 11: Reimu cuts back funding for alternative energy sources.
Touhou 12: Reimu illegally seizes a merchant ship's cargo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548973
Come on now, I shit on Reimu but not for made up reasons like in that list that gets posted all the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548966
> She only cares about getting people's money, she's the most selfish, childish, annoying, whiny, greedy and unlikeable of not only all religious leaders but the entire cast.

Nowhere close to Nitori, Satori or Seija.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548984
>Nowhere close to Nitori, Satori or Seija.
How the hell? Nitori not only actually delivers the promised product in her ''scams'' (unlike Reimu who is basically Eddy from Ed Edd and Eddy) but also isn't as childish, annoying, whiny or unlikable, she's not yelling all the goddamn time, she's not dumb as a brick like Reimu is.

Satori...what? How?

Seija has none of those traits, she's just angry that because she's weak then she gets treated like shit. She also doesn't give a damn about anything, she isn't a whiny, greedy, childish bitch that gets angry at anything like Reimu is, that's what makes Seija cool. She's evil and she doesn't try to hide it.

[Anonymous No.]

After the manga showed that Reimu can kill, I just want to see Reimu kill some beloved character(s) of the fanbase that ZUN doesn't use anymore and are thus expendable like Rumia, just to make the public realize in a single event what a tremendous bitch she is and so that they stop making her so popular or making fanart of her where she's being nice or cool at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548966
Here's my interpretation. How we see Reimu in media is very much related to the main character of said media.

WaHH is from the viepoint of Kasen, who does view Reimu as a child. Much of her actions in the manga are there simply because we need Kasen to interfere and go into her lectures which is the main point of WaHH.

FS on the other hand, revolves around Kosuzu, so it focuses much more on Reimu's village-protecting exploits. She's portrayed as much more watchful and wary than her WaHH version. She much more competent, and even sinister, because Kosuzu views her that way. Just read the last translated chapter. Kosuzu is obviously somewhat afraid of Reimu.

Also, I'm not saying these are different Reimus. I'm just saying that the tone and purpose of the manga directly affect the tone and purpose of the stories being told. A series like WaHH would probably focus more on Reimu being immature than something like SSiB or SBND.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549000
Satori and Seija are the two most hated individuals in the entirety of Touhou canon. Even amongst the (already hated) youkai of old hell, nobody can stand her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549015
>How we see Reimu in media is very much related to the main character of said media.
But she's a bitch in the games too.
> so it focuses much more on Reimu's village-protecting exploits
Hence why it shows her doing her most (to the general audience at least) diabolical act yet, killing a guy that wanted to live more in absolute peace.
>A series like WaHH would probably focus more on Reimu being immature than something like SSiB or SBND.
She's immature all the time on every piece of media since SA, this isn't a character perspective thing when even in the games where she'sthe MC she's still a bitch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549019
>Satori and Seija are the two most hated individuals in the entirety of Touhou canon
Okay? What does that have to do with what I said? I didn't say Reimu was the most hated character in-universe, at least Marisa likes her because hot damn Marisa must have a heart of gold to be able like even a total bitch like Reimu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549024
> everyone just hates Reimu
Your words. That was your entire premise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549030
Hating someone doesn't mean you can't hate someone else more, you know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549036
>everyone hates Reimu
is also factually wrong BTW.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549044
Okay, everyone but Marisa. Hell even she has had times where she can't stand Reimu's shit like when Reimu made her fight Tokiko and when Reimu crashed the meeting in SoPM.

Everyone else just uses her, when she's not being useful to them they just call her out on what a lying, childish, hypocritical bitch she is in a passive aggressive way like Nitori has done twice now, just to shut Reimu's loud, annoying mouth.

Notice how people only go to her place when she's offering free food and they don't help her clean up afterwards, something she whines about in BAiJR.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549022
Everyone's a bitch in the games. That's hardly something unique to Reimu. I also don't think anybody is particularly disdainful of Reimu in HM or any of the other games, any more than they would be disdainful of anyone from any other religious faction.

>She's immature all the time on every piece of media since SA, this isn't a character perspective thing when even in the games where she's the MC she's still a bitch.

I'm convinced this is hugely just your own personal opinion at this point. I've read all the media you have and I don't feel it's anything like how you're making it out to be. Also, I'm not saying it's strictly character perspective. I'm just saying that each manga needs a different attitude of Reimu to advance the plot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549063
Your best friends often tend to have fights/arguments.

Also, Reimu is hated by the weak, but liked by the strong youkai in Gensoukyou. (such as Remilia, Yuuka, Suika, etc. also recently Mamizou as well).

As for the humans, they don't get into contact with her often because her shrine is far away and dangerous to get to, and there are rumors of youkai being there. But Reimu is pretty "popular" when she fights during the religious war. There's no evidence to suggest that any human actually hates her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549087
>Everyone's a bitch in the games
Dude what? Did you anyone going ''man I don't like Marisa anymore'' after UFO? Show me anyone that's a total bitch in the games as much as Reimu. Look at Marisa's dialogue, it's usually cool and collected the only time she ever acted bitchy was when she was turned evil in DDC, a route that isn't canon.
> I also don't think anybody is particularly disdainful of Reimu in HM or any of the other games, any more than they would be disdainful of anyone from any other religious faction.
Nobody talks shit about others as much as they do about Reimu.
>I'm convinced this is hugely just your own personal opinion at this point
How is it an opinion when I'm posting a bunch of examples? What else do you want?
>and I don't feel it's anything like how you're making it out to be.
How? Point out which one of my examples is wrong.
>I'm just saying that each manga needs a different attitude of Reimu to advance the plot.
But it's not different, she's an immature, whiny, loud, childish, greedy bitch in every piece of media since SA. You say she's a ''village protector'' in FS even though most WaHH chapters are about some new mythological creature causing rumours that she goes off to investigate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549109
>but liked by the strong youkai in Gensoukyou
Stop saying that, that's just a line in PMiSS which ZUN himself said it's bollocks that shouldn't be trusted. Everyone just uses Reimu, even when people play nice to her it's all to gain her trust since she's dumb as a brick, ZUN said so in her profiles (he uses the term ''simple-minded'' instead).
>such as Remilia, Yuuka, Suika, etc. also recently Mamizou as well
What, when? The last thing Remilia did with Reimu was go to one of her many parties where the aforementioned free-food-but-nobody-helps-out-cleaning happens, Suika gives out free shit to everyone and doesn't want to tell Reimu the truth about Kasen, Yuuka...what? And Mamizou? The one encouraging Kosuzu to get into shit she shouldn't be getting into and tricking Reimu?
> There's no evidence to suggest that any human actually hates her.
They sure as hell don't give a shit about her since even after HM they don't give her a single penny, except that one time she scammed everyone by pretending to be a fortune teller while wearing a hood, a plan foiled by Kasen by making Reimu remember the fact that she's an aggressive bitch. Though that doesn't actually count for her religion since it's not increasing the faith at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549113
>How is it an opinion when I'm posting a bunch of examples? What else do you want?
It's because of those examples that I'm calling it opinion. I'm seeing the very same things, and I hardly think they make an argument for this universally hated Reimu you're talking about. If you'd post specific lines, but from what I've played and read, all the characters are on rather amicable terms.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549144
>It's because of those examples that I'm calling it opinion
Okay, if you really want it to be the most specific and concise possible, disregard that I said ''hated'', more like ''don't give a shit about'', ''dislike'' and ''feel pity for''.

>specific lines
When she crashed the party and ruined the biggest reason the leaders had gathered, Akyuu said everyone looked at her in disgust. Miko saying she should leave as she has no business doing anything here and Nitori saying that Reimu just acts mighty but is actually a weakling, right after kicking her ass in HM.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549142
> PMiSS which ZUN himself said it's bollocks that shouldn't be trusted

Yeah sure, ignore all the facts that don't suit your agenda.

> The last thing Remilia did with Reimu was go to one of her many parties where the aforementioned free-food-but-nobody-helps-out-cleaning happens

Actually, the SDM provides food to parties, particularily noted as "red meat" prepared by Sakuya.

>Suika gives out free shit to everyone and doesn't want to tell Reimu the truth about Kasen, Yuuka...what?

Kasen knows what she is doing and Suika has no reason to betray her. About Yuuka, you should replay PoFV.

> And Mamizou? The one encouraging Kosuzu to get into shit she shouldn't be getting into and tricking Reimu?

When did Mamizou trick Reimu? And in the same extra, Reimu's thought bubble said "friends with youkai", proving that PMiSS is not bollocks. Just in the latest FS chapter, you can see Mamizou casually visiting Reimu's place.

> They sure as hell don't give a shit about her since even after HM they don't give her a single penny

No proof. After the events of HM, Reimu's shrine received a large number of visitors thanks to Kokoro's Noh performance, and Reimu was there collecting donations.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549167
Half of the versus mode dialogue is the same sort of bitchcalling you'd expect two people beating up on each other to do. They don't really prove anything. If you actually go through Nitori's scenarios, her and Reimu's relationship is more friendly than her and most other characters. Also the actual words used in the Akyuu example aren't as harsh as "disgust" would make it seem.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549192
>Yeah sure, ignore all the facts that don't suit your agenda.
It's ZUN's words, not mine.
>Actually, the SDM provides food to parties, particularily noted as "red meat" prepared by Sakuya.
SDM's parties, Remilia doesn't give a shit about Reimu cleaning up the entire shrine by herself after said parties.
>Kasen knows what she is doing and Suika has no reason to betray her.
If she liked Reimu she'd tell her instead of keeping her in the dark for her own amusement.
>About Yuuka, you should replay PoFV.
What about it? There's nothing there that even remotely says anything about Yuuka liking Reimu, rather, Yuuka points out how ignorant Reimu is.
>When did Mamizou trick Reimu?
By pretending she's not doing anything with Kosuzu.
>Reimu's thought bubble said "friends with youkai"
What does that matter?
> you can see Mamizou casually visiting Reimu's place.
She does that a lot, each time she points out what an ignorant liar Reimu is. Like when Reimu says ''I don't attack innocents'' while Mamizou looks at the tied up fox girl and later when Reimu says ''my shrine isn't a youkai shrine'' and Mamizou just gets close to Marisa and says ''does she really believe that?''. She's just using her, maybe settling things straight, like everyone else. When's the last time anyone has done anything for Reimu? Kasen giving her some fruit, and we all know Kasen is using her for her own purpose.
> and Reimu was there collecting donations.
What donations? Where's the money?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549113
>But it's not different, she's an immature, whiny, loud, childish, greedy bitch in every piece of media since SA.
I honestly don't see how you can get that anywhere outside of WaHH. If WaHH didn't exist, this statement would be a completely silly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549206
>Half of the versus mode dialogue is the same sort of bitchcalling you'd expect two people beating up on each other to do
Where none of it is as bad as it is when people beat Reimu.
> If you actually go through Nitori's scenarios, her and Reimu's relationship is more friendly than her and most other characters
Just because she doesn't mention what she thinks of her doesn't mean anything, the VS mode quote shows it, why would she say such a thing if by your logic she's ''more friendly'' towards her?
>Also the actual words used in the Akyuu example aren't as harsh as "disgust" would make it seem.
Come on, you're nitpicking here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549230
>I honestly don't see how you can get that anywhere outside of WaHH
Where do you see Reimu acting anything but that after SA? Of course it's not all things at the same time, but one that is always there is her being the bitchiest character in the cast where everyone else, even children like Kosuzu, are way more coolheaded and friendlier in comparison.

I actually just remembered something, Marisa's profile in Shushou Gyoku states that she goes to Reimu's place out of boredom. Like people going to a public execution or the circus, it kills time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549237
>Where none of it is as bad as it is when people beat Reimu
Everyone got beaten by Reimu at some point, so they're just shittalking/taunting her after they got their "revenge". It doesn't mean they hate her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549229
Reimu's party, at the shrine, not SDM's party.

You don't give away your firends secrets just because you like someone. Only naive little girls like Kosuzu would do that >>13548499.

You claim that no one likes Reimu, and when shown proof that many youkai like her, you dismiss that without offering any kind of proof.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549264
Shittalking someone after you beat the shit out of them means you generally dislike them. Notice how Marisa doesn't do it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549273
>Reimu's party, at the shrine
Yes and? What does that change? You think that's food for HER and not everyone?
>You don't give away your firends secrets just because you like someone
You do when that someone is being affected by the lies.
>and when shown proof that many youkai like her,
What proof? You've yet to show any.
>you dismiss that without offering any kind of proof.
Do tell which one of my examples didn't happen.

You're the one trying your damnest to ignore events like when you said ''Mamizou casually visiting her place'', not pointing out the events that happen in all the times Mamizou visits her. She's always there to call out Reimu. Of course, since Reimu's the childish, bitchy one here that shouts at everyone, not others, everyone does it in a coolheaded way like Nitori did up there in WaHH and Mamizou in these visits.

Each manga chapter is usually Reimu being a bitch and then her getting what she deserves and/or someone calling her out. There's exceptions like when she throws needles at Kogasa just for demanding payment for her efforts and gets away with it because the chapter ends right there.

[Anonymous No.]

Please don't feed the troll.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549316
Oh look, the typical excuse of calling someone a troll just because he said mean things about something you like even though the ''troll'' hasn't made a single thing up. What is this, 2006?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549237
>Where none of it is as bad as it is when people beat Reimu.
Koishi -> Marisa
Miko -> Nitori
Marisa -> Mamizou

Again, I still think versus win quotes have very little weight. They're not nearly enough to base anything on.

>>13549258
In FS. In OSP. In ULiL. In UFO extra. In DDC.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549323
>Miko -> Nitori
She tells her that she has issues finding happiness. Compare that to Miko telling Reimu to get out of there.
>Koishi -> Marisa
>Marisa -> Mamizou
...Really? You're that desperate? That is absolutely nothing, that's like, normal banter. Tell me with a straight face that those are shittalking phrases on the level of Reimu's.
>In FS. In OSP. In ULiL. In UFO extra. In DDC.
She acts like a bitch in all of those, what are you on? Especially in OSP where not only is she like that in every chapter, but the final chapter is the biggest offender since she treats the fairies like shit for wanting to befriend her and later she explicitly says that she tricked them with alcohol to make them do her chores for her. And why are you counting only the UFO extra? She's at her maximum bitch mode in her A route in the main game and that route made some people stop liking her.

Also, her route isn't even canon in UFO anyhow but rather Marisa B so whatever route there involving Reimu never happened.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549365
>She's at her maximum bitch mode in her A route in the main game and that route made some people stop liking her.

Some experts say that you might be projecting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549365
Reimu is the person who solves all the incidents, her route is always canon.

Marisa tinkering with a UFO does not contradict that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549365
>that's like, normal banter.
That's literally how I feel for the dialogue involving Reimu too. But if you feel telling someone to get out is too harsh for a fight, then telling someone they smell like shit or insulting their upbringing should warrant a death sentence.

Also, I doubt you've ever had any sort of experience with kids if you think Reimu was acting like a bitch in OSP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549373
https://archive.moe/jp/thread/10971779/#10975744
>>13549382
>Reimu is the person who solves all the incidents, her route is always canon.
Show me proof that Reimu's route is canon in UFO, pretty sure ZUN said the canon one in that game is Marisa B in a shrinemaiden.org interview.
>>13549420
> But if you feel telling someone to get out is too harsh for a fight
And calling her irrelevant despite being a religious leader, it's like one MC calling another MC irrelevant.
>then telling someone they smell like shit
Don't go too far now, also no, telling someone they smell is nowhere near as harsh and telling that someone to get out because they don't belong here.
>Also, I doubt you've ever had any sort of experience with kids if you think Reimu was acting like a bitch in OSP.
Marisa herself questions Reimu's actions, and she's the one tricking Reimu in earlier chapters, that's something.
Even Yukari, the one who sucks Reimu's dick the most (while using her as a pawn), calls her out in one chapter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549440
There's absolutely no need for me to. It is common knowledge that it's Reimu's job to solve the incidents, and that is frequently referenced in the print works. Marisa may have sought out the treasure and fought the youkai, but she didn't resolve the indicent.

And the canonicity does not even matter, because all routes show you how the player character react in certain scenarios. You're constanly trying to use fighting game dialogue that never happens in canon to prove your point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549440
Pretty sure it's the other way around. Saying someone is weak is just standard intimidation. But saying they smell or bringing up something that has nothing to do with the fight is outright dickish.
If you want to talk about MCs, calling someone weak is just standard rival banter. Insulting someone's upbringing or race or something like that makes you an automatic villain.

Also, I don't recall Yukari ever "calling her out". Maybe she commented on it, but I don't recall anything that warrants as strong a phrase as "being called out".

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549000
Nitori's canonly a Kappa/Nitori supremacist asshole though.

[Anonymous No.]

Reimu is a bitch is a bait made by the same anon over an over, using the same terms and motives and not listening when people try to explain why she's not. Even if you manage to shut him up in this thread he will whine in the next with the same fucking excuses.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549495
truth

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549495
But Reimu is a huge bitch. You can count the Touhous that aren't in one hand.

She's not hated though, that's silly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549474
>There's absolutely no need for me to
Yes there is, especially since SoPM showed that there's ambiguity in who's route is canon. Don't try to nudge your way out of this one.
>And the canonicity does not even matter
It does, since Reimu's route isn't canon it means what she did never happened and thus you can't use it as a ''what if'', especially since Reimu A and Reimu B differ in tone so much in UFO. That's another thing, you also need proof to know which one of Reimu's route happened, knowing this one in particular is the difference between Reimu being a coolheaded innocent and the biggest bitch she's ever been.
> You're constanly trying to use fighting game dialogue that never happens in canon to prove your point.
You make it sound like the VS scenarios are all I got and not, you know, every piece of media since SA as I've said again and again, and that it's only getting worse as ZUN keeps making Reimu bitchier and bitchier as shown where she beats Kogasa just because she has to pay her.
>>13549475
>Saying someone is weak is just standard intimidation
Nice try trying to diminsh what she said, Miko outright says that Reimu, a religious leader, is both irrelevant in this war of faith AND that she should leave, this is especially so in the context of being beaten by the person telling you this.
> Insulting someone's upbringing or race or something like that makes you an automatic villain.
Guess Reimu's the villain for calling Marisa a thief constantly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549495
>>13549510
Whoa there, what people are arguing here is ''Reimu being hated by everyone'', everyone here knows Reimu's a bitch, don't fool yourself.

If you don't think Reimu's a bitch, you don't like Reimu, you like your made up version that you probably got influenced by fanart.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549495
Thing with this is that Reimu being a bitch is an attractive stance for someone who doesn't know the series to latch on to. I don't particularly care what people outside of /jp/ think, but I can't ignore the fact that people from outside /jp/ do come to /jp/ and do read some of the threads. They leave, but they do come back and post again.

I know for a fact that some of the crossboarders who came during the recent release of the demo and ULiL picked up the Reimu being a bitch thing, and will eventually come back still thinking the same thing next time even when this one guy does get bored.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549475
>Also, I don't recall Yukari ever "calling her out"
Chapter where Reimu makes a tree wither and Yukari reveals her inner tree-hugging hippie side.
>>13549485
What about it? Point is she's nowhere near as bitchy as Reimu. Look up in the first OSP example where Nitori calls her out.
>>13549495
Really dude? You're just gonna discard everything by making me into a villain? What a coward.
>>13549527
Why do you sound like you genuinely believe Reimu isn't a bitch?

It's one thing to say not everyone hates her, it's another to be such a blind fan that you deliberately ignore what's right in front you.

Come on, defend Reimu stealing the book from Tokiko just to try to clear her money tab at Kourindou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549523
>>13549527
>both sides accusing each other of being secondaries and offboarders
Get out. You don't bring this shit into an argument.

That said, Reimu is a raging cunt who is also well-liked in canon. But that doesn't make her any less of a bitch. In fact, the reason youkai like her is that she's a bitch to everyone and doesn't really favor people for being strong or influental (she'll favor people for being female though, see: Count).

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549552
Exterminating and looting youkai is not considered amoral in Gensoukyou, especially if your job is "youkai eterminator".

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549552
>Chapter where Reimu makes a tree wither and Yukari reveals her inner tree-hugging hippie side.
How is that her acting like a bitch? That's just plain ignorance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549566
Reimu would've exterminated the jinyou even if he were female.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549571
>Exterminating and looting youkai is not considered amoral in Gensoukyou
But it is over here. Mongol hordes exterminated people left, right and center too, but that wasn't okay because "eh mang, mongols gotta mong".

If we were arguing in Gensokyo, you could have a point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549590
Mongols only exterminated people who wanted to fight or wouldn't pay up. They were pretty nice otherwise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549590
Reimu is acting in accordance to Gensoukyou's rules.

What we do here doesn't matter. (not that anyone would hate you for killing a youkai in real life)

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549566
>the reason youkai like her is that she's a bitch to everyone and doesn't really favor people for being strong or influental
That's another bullshit line said only by Akyuu, Reimu favours humans and treats youkai like expendable garbage, she can kill them if she wants but also get drunk with.
>>13549571
Her job is to exterminate youkai, not steal from innocents. The general public likes youkai like Byakuren for example, meaning only Reimu has the ''youkai are bad for being youkai'' thinking, this is even addressed in one chapter where Kasen tries to point this stupidity out to her but Reimu in her ignorance acts blindly to it and keeps her muslim-tier beliefs.
>>13549574
She enshrines a tree for publicity and doesn't even bother taking care of it. It's like giving an expensive breed of dog to a spoiled brat who uses it to brag about it to others and doesn't keep it fed.

Another chapter, she gets pissy at innocent youkai for going to a festival in her shrine and says she's gonna beat them all up.

[Anonymous No.]

Man marisa chara design sure is cool in FS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549612

>>13549618
> innocent youkai

such a thing does not exist

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549601
>Mongols only exterminated people who wanted to fight or wouldn't pay up.
They invaded everyone and their mom, by paying up do you mean ''surrender or die''? Cause that was basically their motto.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549636
Damn Marisa looks dumb in that shot. Uncool.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549582
Like how she exterminated Sumireko and Kasen for genuinely threatening the barrier (instead of this "could maybe make humans fear youkai less if people found out" thing)? Yeah no, that's bullshit and we both know it.

Nobody even knew that Count was a former village human, beyond the main cast who are in onto the illusion and don't actually fear youkai anyway. All Reimu needed to say is "Oops, turns out that it was a youkai book after all" and then all would be resolved.

>>13549604
>Reimu is acting in accordance to Gensoukyou's rules. What we do here doesn't matter.
Yeah, no. If a system is shitty, you aren't wrong to bitch about it or people who perpetuate it.

Seija was right, Gensokyo needs a power overhaul. Depose Reimu, dilute the Hakurei bloodline to ensure that nobody gets all the power and responsibility, get like 10-15 independent incident solvers, give weak youkai and outsiders equal rights to strong youkai and villagers (with suicidals exempted).

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549655
>Nobody even knew that Count was a former village human,
Do you know why what he did was a mortal sin? His very existence affects the stability of Gensokyo, Reimu not killing him right there would have been WRONG. Hell even if Reimu didn't kill him, the Yama would send a demon to do the job instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549655
>Like how she exterminated Sumireko and Kasen for genuinely threatening the barrier
There's a difference between making a hole in the barrier like Mamizou does all the time and your very existence affecting it. Guess what, only one of those can be solved by not-killing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549655
What do you want Reimu to do then, turn the Count back into a human? She can fix the Sumireko issue just by kicking her out. There's no easy way to fix the Count issue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549684
>What do you want Reimu to do then, turn the Count back into a human?
I'm still waiting for the chapter where it's revealed it was all a ruse by ZUN and that the count is now a cute human girl living with Reimu, like how it took a few chapters to show Sukuna in FS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549618
marisa without round eyes=cool.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549655
Reimu does not kill humans.

And Kasen and Reimu are on the same side in ULiL. There's no reason for Reimu to want to exterminate Kasen (especially since Reimu doesn't even know that Kasen is a youkai).

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549655
>If a system is shitty
the youkai are happy with it because it means they don't have to live in fear of death.

Seija is just jealous and immature, you don't see Sukuna wanting to overthrow the system after Reimu slapped some sense into her and gave her a place to stay while she turns back to normal.

[Anonymous No.]

Whatever happened to the "nothing ever happens, the manga is boring" guy?
Did he take up a new cause?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549712
That's a bunch of people, me included, and it's just pointing out that the specific chapter in question is boring and unimportant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549710
"Immature" is not the right word. It is in Seija's nature as an amanojaku cause chaos, turn things on their heads, annoy, deceive, abuse, exploit, disobey, make everyone hate her

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549684
Kick _him_ out, maybe? There's enough fortune telling bullshit in the outside world to get him sustained.

>>13549665
>His very existence affects the stability of Gensokyo
Source? Just skimmed the chapters and haven't seen anything of the sort.

>the Yama would send a demon to do the job
And we know exactly how effective these are in deterring hermits from breaking the rules, yes?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549723
Then Seija is immature by nature.

Also it's not like touhou characters are literal, down-to-the-word representations of creatures, rather, it's part of their theme. Without enough goheis in the butthole I bet Reimu could reform Seija too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549732
> reform Seija

no way

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549727
>And we know exactly how effective these are in deterring hermits from breaking the rules, yes?
You're comparing a newly formed, peaceful youkai to the devious mastermind hag that is Seiga. Also it's the intention that matters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549732
>Without enough goheis in the butthole I bet Reimu could reform Seija too.
Reimu could make Seija not be a devil's-advocate-against-everything in the same way that she can make Kyouko not be a manifestation of an echo.

An amanojaku only exists to oppose your shit. That's its entire gimmick.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549744

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549732
reforming Seija is like trying to ask her not to be an Amanojaku

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549699
Her hair makes her look more boyish now too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549775
Marisa always had that Tomboy essence...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549783
>...
What's with this faggotry lately?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549732
>Without
*With.
>>13549744
>>13549761
>>13549756
>that she can make Kyouko not be a manifestation of an echo.
That has nothing to do with personality, and if you wanted you could sew her fucking mouth to shut her up and presto, no more echoing.
>An amanojaku only exists to oppose your shit
Again, Touhous aren't literal representations of mythological creatures. They have their source creature as theme with a largely human-like part. Look at Keine, she's supposed to be ugly and have eyeballs growing out all over her body. Her ''whole thing'', much like Seija, would be to protect the king, but that isn't the case.

Kogasa is supposed to enact revenge, she's not doing that. Chen is supposed to cause misfortune and thus everyone would try to get away from her, that's not happening. Mystia sure as hell isn't supposed to have a food stand.

All of the touhous are more human-like than they are youkai-like, that's why with enough punishment even edgelords like Seija could be reformed. I mean, she gave up in her deeds after Reimu beat her ass, for a while anyays.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549775
>>13549699
I can't see marisa fanart without her sharp eyes now, I got used to her stylish look.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549727
>Kick _him_ out, maybe?
Mate that's exactly the same as killing him, except he wouldn't even have a soul, he would just fade out of existence, because the outside world doesn't believe in his existence. This is like Umineko, remember that the tanuki are creatures that are still believed in Japan so Mamizou can come and go. Also it's unclear if even being in the outside world would still affect Gensokyo or not, it's something about affecting stability.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549801
Didn't Mamizou entered Gensokyo because she had the Occult Ball of Gensokyo...?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549814
How could have she obtained it before going to Gensokyo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548348
How do they know what English is? Let along speak it? Gensokyo has been isolated for the last XX years and most likely never encountered English at all during this time. I don't understand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549793
>you could sew her fucking mouth to shut her up and presto, no more echoing
She'd very likely to die if you do that, since you're in effect preventing her from being what she is.

>Touhous aren't literal representations of mythological creatures
Touhou youkai are a function (makes you sick, swaps your pillows while you're sleeping, makes you stumble and fall at night) attributed to a physical form (old man at crossroads, little pillow imp, sapient cotton candy). You can take away the form (so they're all cute girls now), but they still have to fulfill their function.

Keine still performs her duty of protecting humans from other youkai, which is what a hakutaku does. Kogasa is enacting revenge by surprising humans and is in fact successful since she found a graveyard to do it with. Mystia still leaves people nightblind, the fact that she gets money out of it has little to do with the fact that she can sustain her existence as a night sparrow by doing what a night sparrow does. But Yamabiko are having an existence crisis because echoes are well-explained even in Gensokyo, so their "mysterious animal that shouts back from mountains" gimmick isn't working out.

>>13549801
>that's exactly the same as killing him
>There's enough fortune telling bullshit in the outside world to get him sustained.
Can you even read, holy shit. Yeah I pulled that "fortune telling is a big thing in the outside world so he can probably do fine" thing out my ass, sure, but fortune telling really is a big thing in the outside world and he can really do fine scamming people out there. Probably.

Still waiting on that reference on how village humans-turned-youkai are actually threatening Gensokyo's stability instead of just spooking Reimu out with the possibility that they can.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549833
wat.... the balls had existed since forever in Sacred Placer all over the world... even in Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549793
> Look at Keine,

ehh...Keine is not a hakutaku, but a were-hakutaku. In other words, mostly "half-human, half-beast". That's why she acts like a normal human and doesn't have eyes all over her back.

Kogasa scares people, which is what she's supposed to do. Chen is the black cat of ill omen, there's just not enough canon material centered around her to show what her daily life is like.

> All of the touhous are more human-like than they are youkai-like

ZUN is human, he can only write human-ish characters.

>>13549833
You should ask: how did Nue contact Mamizou who is in the outside world? Maybe Nue brought Mamizou the ball?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549836
Wrong, Kourindo and even Kosuzu have some newspapers frome the WW era I think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549837
>She'd very likely to die if you do that, since you're in effect preventing her from being what she is.
I just showed you a bunch of examples where touhous aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing at all and they're fine.
> but they still have to fulfill their function.
See above.
>Keine still performs her duty of protecting humans from other youkai, which is what a hakutaku does
A hakutaku is supposed to be the king's right hand man, Keine is just a teacher with paranoia issues.
> Kogasa is enacting revenge by surprising humans and is in fact successful since she found a graveyard to do it with
Nice try, she's supposed to get back at her ex-owner, meanwhile she's doing shit like making Reimu new needles and just saying boo! to people which never works. The sheer fact that she helps Reimu goes against her ''job''

Dude with all that straw grasping you could make Seija only be a slight edgelord, because Kogasa can with just that. Maybe Seija could just be a hipster and like genres of music that nobody else does, presto, existence quota fulfilled.
>>13549842
>ehh...Keine is not a hakutaku, but a were-hakutaku
Full hakutaku on full moons, mate.
> That's why she acts like a normal human and doesn't have eyes all over her back.
Okay then explain all the youkai that look like cute girls. Seija should look like this.
>he can only write human-ish characters.
That's my point, every other youkai is human enough to not be a literal representation, then so can Seija.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549836
Nigga, Kosuzu has the power to read any fucking thing, no matter in what language. And she has read a fuckton of old magazines and books from the outside world.
It's no stretch to imagine she'd pick up on the name of the language she was magically translating at some point during all that reading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549837
>but fortune telling really is a big thing in the outside world and he can really do fine scamming people out there.
But that's not the issue here, him being a jinyou is what needs to be believed in, that's all. The outside world doesn't believe in those.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549836
>>13549880
Oh and plus, Rinnosuke finds fucking computers and textbooks about the moonlandings during CoLA. They have plenty of english stuff to skim through.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549836
Americans arrived in Japan 30 years before Gensokyo was sealed off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549837
>She'd very likely to die if you do that, since you're in effect preventing her from being what she is.
Sign language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549876
>I just showed you a bunch of examples where touhous aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing at all and they're fine.
You have received counterarguments against all of them.


> Okay then explain all the youkai that look like cute girls. Seija should look like this.
because ZUN drew them that way. That's the only reason. Maybe he wants his characters to look at least somewhat appealing to the player? Maybe he likes lolis? Whatever the reason, it doesn't change their nature as youkai.

ZUN does not know how a youkai thinks. He tells you in the profiles that the youkai's minds work completely different from a human's, but since ZUN is only a human himself, whenever he writes dialogue or inner monologues for a youkai, he cannot accurately represent what they would really say or think. It is all jut an interpretation by a human.

Keep in mind that ZUN's Touhou Project is istelf derivative work. As he said himself, since he takes inspiration from so many other sources (such as Japanese mythology).

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549836
people from gensokyo don't even know what is Africa.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549876
They don't have to follow everything 100% to the letter, they have a general outline because see, folklore is nebulous and there are multiple stories about how a youkai is supposed to act. Tsukumogami don't have to strike out against their owners, they can just be pissed about humans in general and do a whole bunch of nothing about it. Kogasa is channeling ippondatara by making Reimu new needles, so it strengthens her youkai mojo as well.

But yeah, Seija can make do by just opposing shit on internet debates instead of outright starting rebellion. But having her not oppose anything would kill her.

>>13549892
No, the source mystery is what needs to be believed. You don't actually need to believe in Rumia, fearing the dark is enough to keep her going. Yamabiko can sustain themselves as long as the "holy shit why is my voice coming back from that mountain" factor is maintained. As long as fortune telling remains a mysterious topic, Count will probably do fine.

>>13549918
Yeah, I'm going to believe that because the idea of a mute yamabiko that signs back at you is awfully cute.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549936
But do they know about Indian elephants?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549933
>You have received counterarguments against all of them.
No, I received someone saying that you could twist enough that one action they do to make it seem like they're doing their source creature's job, especially with Kogasa.
> it doesn't change their nature as youkai.
It does, their nature as a youkai is to look like youkai, them not looking like youkai is another testament to them not having to be like youkai, rather, their youkai part is just a theme.
>ZUN does not know how a youkai thinks.
These are his characters based youkai, these are the ones that matter in this discussion.
>Keep in mind that ZUN's Touhou Project is istelf derivative work
And we're discussing the contents of said derivative work, the source is irrelevant.
>>13549941
>They don't have to follow everything 100% to the letter
As I said, Seija doesn't have to be an edgelord then, only a hipster, because no youkai is doing what they're supposed to be doing and they don't look like youkai at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549953
>no youkai is doing what they're supposed to be doing
Like shit they aren't. They are doing what they are supposed to do, but we can't seem to convince you because you keep making up contrived reasons about how they aren't because they don't match whatever dumb version of folklore that you heard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549941
>No, the source mystery is what needs to be believed
What? It's the creature, people believe in tanuki. The Count isn't a ''fortune-reading youkai'' either, it's like saying Kogasa is a smith youkai.
>You don't actually need to believe in Rumia,
It's not the character, it's their ''species'' that matters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549965
>it's their ''species'' that matters
And Rumia's species is?

>people believe in tanuki
No, people believe that they're being tricked by shady fellows. That's how tanuki make a living, not from the active belief that tanuki exist (which isn't there anymore).

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549880
But Kosuzu can't. Sure she can read English, but if she can't write in English, obviously she can't speak one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549991
I never said she can speak English, just that it's very clear how she discovered the language's name.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549991
>chupacabra's "oh no, what will I do" expression on the bottom-left panel
Why are nonhuman youkai so cute

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549792
It's always been like that everywhere. Ellipses used to be fine but I guess everyone got a little more autistic and started hating it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549991
Just because you can't write in a language doesn't mean you can't speak it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549962
>but we can't seem to convince you because you keep making up contrived reasons
You're the one acting like Kogasa being a cute girl and NOT being succesful in scaring humans, rather, HELPING them smith their weapons, is ''what a youkai is supposed to be doing''. You even said that because she taps into another, completely different mythological entity's actions then her existence creed boosts, you know that if that were true then that's yet another testament to how Seija doesn't have to be an edgelord and just act like another youkai?

It's not like you need outside tales, the touhou youkai mostly look like humans, that alone means they aren't following their sources to the core. Every youkai here does something that they're not supposed to be doing, Okuu shouldn't be managing a nuclear reactor, I'd like to see that in any folklore.
>>13549982
>And Rumia's species is?
It isn't stated anywhere.
>No, people believe that they're being tricked by shady fellows
It's tanuki, otherwise any shapeshifter could cross the barrier. Tanuki are the sole representation believed in, that's why there's still shrines with big balled raccoons with attendees.

Why did you ignore the part that says that the count isn't a ''fortune-telling youkai''? Also, there is no belief that fortune tellers are human-turned-monsters or a big enough belief in fortune-telling, especially in japan.

If anything there is a hate towards them, gypsies are hated more and more every day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550010
>And Rumia's species is?
what about Meiling? she's a Youkai too...
No every Youkai has a species I think, just being supernatural makes you one

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549991
Wait, I don't get it. Why did Patchouli come?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550041
chupa chu pa chu pa chu pachu

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550041
Remilia calls Patchouli, "Patche", hence the confusion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550010
Kogasa can tap into blacksmithing because there is belief into one-eyed, one-legged monsters who are skilled blacksmiths, she is one-eyed and one-legged so she can pull off the blacksmith part. Amanojaku have nothing going for their name other than wearing the flayed skin of princesses and opposing people because they can, so her options in emulating other supernatural creatures are limited to Xipe Totec and Necron Flayed Ones. Seija could be less opposing if she was another type of youkai, but as an amanojaku she has little else to her gimmick other than being a huge jerk.

As I said, she doesn't have to instigate a rebellion, but the easiest way for her to continue living as an amanojaku is to have something to oppose.

>It isn't stated anywhere.
Probably because she doesn't have one. There are a lot of one-off youkai that don't really belong to a specific category, other than things like "vengeful spirit". What are the youkai-species of say, Okiku? Kiyohime?

>there isn't a big enough belief in fortune-telling in Japan
That's a valid point. Things are looking grim for Count if people believe that fortune telling is phony. They probably don't have to believe that fortune tellers are human-turned-monsters though, just that they are mysterious and have connections to otherworldly forces and such.

>If anything there is a hate towards them, gypsies are hated more and more every day.
But that is great news for our favorite jinyou, since he can tap into the belief that gypsies are inhuman child stealers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550010
>>13550025
Rumia is an original character do not steal.

>>13550010
> NOT being succesful in scaring humans
Kogasa has been studying, and has been looking for place suited to scare humans, and the graveyard near Myourenji seems to working fine. Do you know of anything that would suggest that she is unable to scare humans?

> You even said that because she taps into another, completely different mythological entity's actions then her existence creed boosts, you know that if that were true then that's yet another testament to how Seija doesn't have to be an edgelord and just act like another youkai?

ZUN can do with his characters whatever he wants, but she's still scaring humans, so you cannot apply the whole "reforming Seija" here.
Kogasa modeled her umbrella's appearence (and her own name) after the Ippon Datara has now obstained smithing skills. Maybe it was the human beliefs that changed her, maybe ZUN is just pulling stuff out of his ass, but this is purely for Kogasa, not for Seija or any other youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550049
>>13550056
Oh, I see know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550057
>Kogasa can tap into blacksmithing because there is belief into one-eyed, one-legged monsters who are skilled blacksmiths, she is one-eyed and one-legged so she can pull off the blacksmith part
Appearance matters now? Guess Seija can pull off being the long-dead 80s punk stereotype with her looks.
> but the easiest way for her to continue living as an amanojaku is to have something to oppose.
So be a hipster in music like I said, nice girl for the rest like every other youkai.
>Probably because she doesn't have one
So people don't even know what she is, much less believe in her.
>But that is great news for our favorite jinyou, since he can tap into the belief that gypsies are inhuman child stealers.
He's not a fortune telling youkai, also even if he was and actually made it outside then he would a far worse life because his entire schtick would be a literal tumour on manking and be lynched, drawn and quartered by an angry slav gang the next day.
> Do you know of anything that would suggest that she is unable to scare humans?
Because she herself is scared of zombies, how can she scare someone by being a cute-looking girl asking passersby for help? Hell, WHY would people go to the spooky graveyard in a land where monsters exist? Only people like Reimu, who thinks Kogasa is as scary as a shop receipt.
>she's still scaring humans
If she had to tap into someone else then her old job can't be going very well.
>purely for Kogasa
The fact that she can means others can.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550100
I think you're forgetting the fact that Youkais in Gensokyo eat humans, if a youkai popped out of nowhere in middle of the night screaming some spoopy shit, wouldn't you be scared?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550100
>Because she herself is scared of zombies, how can she scare someone by being a cute-looking girl asking passersby for help? Hell, WHY would people go to the spooky graveyard in a land where monsters exist? Only people like Reimu, who thinks Kogasa is as scary as a shop receipt.

So your argument is: "she cannot scare humans because she is scared of zombies".
That's not a very good argument.

Humans are scared of zombies, but are perfectly able to scare other humans.

>You finally came!
>There's this girl I've never seen before keeping watch back there.
>But no matter how much I shoot her, I always lose by time out...
>So could you do something about her? Please!

Where does it say she's scared?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550127
In fact, It looks like she is trying to beat the crap out of "this girl" but she can't because she's a fking weakling...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550100
>Guess Seija can pull off being the long-dead 80s punk stereotype with her looks.
Yeah, if there's any mystery associated with punks, she can do that.

>So be a hipster in music like I said
She can do that, if forced to. She just doesn't want to, because she's an amanojaku and therefore driven by the desire to be a huge jerk.

But an explicitly nice amanojaku could get a lot of youkai brownie points because you just know that she's secretly planning something sinister, and when something big does happen, she could show up and take all the credit.

>So people don't even know what she is, much less believe in her.
Yeah, they believe that darkness is scary and contains man-eating monsters instead. She's a man-eating monster that lives in the dark, so she can feed off of that fear. But since we've got electricity now and don't really fear unknown predators in the dark, it becomes difficult for her to live in the outside world (but she can still find a rural village or haunted house or something to do it).

>He's not a fortune telling youkai
But he is. He's got fortune reading as his gimmick, just like how Okiku has plate-counting and Bloody Mary has popping-outta-mirrors as their gimmicks. Youkai don't need to belong to a species, you can't neatly categorize urban legends like that.

>his entire schtick would be a literal tumour on mankind
Like all youkai! And most of /jp/, really. It wouldn't be difficult for our folks to cross over into youkaidom, to be frank.

>and be lynched, drawn and quartered by an angry slav gang the next day.
As opposed to having your head bashed in by a powertripping shrine maiden? I'll take my chances with the slavs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550132
Tsukumogami are weak, and Yoshika is not.

But if you've played TD, you should know that if you fight Yoshika for the first time, you will most likely time out her spells because she always heals back up by eating the spirits things. Only that as the player character, you actually win if you time her out.

[Anonymous No.]

I think
reimu is cute

[Anonymous No.]

The reason why Reimu killed count was because he turned his back on humanity

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550139
That's a problem you don't have to deal if you were a strong youkai. But true, very true, Yoshika does make you time out her SC...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550147
So did Alice, Byakuren and Ichirin, two of them willingly. Nah, the reason Reimu killed Count is that a village human becoming a youkai disturbs the "humans fear youkai, youkai are exterminated by humans" atmosphere of Gensokyo. Knowing that you can just up and become a demon when humanity seems bleak would remove the fear of youkai from the human population, which is very bad for Gensokyo. Taken at face value, there's nothing wrong with her reasons.

But she had the means to mitigate the issue without resorting to murder, since only she, Marisa, Akyu and Kosuzu knew what was going on. If she told everyone else that Kosuzu was attacked by a youkai yet again, nobody would pay it any mind, since Kosuzu gets attacked by youkai all the damn time. She could then let Count go away (or just seal him) for a generation or ten, until nobody remembered that he was a village human. But she just outright murdered the perpetrator instead, and that's why she's a bitch.

Count's only fault was that he was a dude. See, Reimu was perfectly fine letting the dudes in DiPP die, but suddenly cares about Sumireko's well-being because "she can't bear to see a fellow human die" (yeah, right). I bet that if the would-be youkai in DiPP was a man and he tried to attack the woman in their group, Reimu would be waiting for him with another cool pose and "ahahaha you're dumb and now you will die for it" speech too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550190
Uhh we have no idea if the shrine maiden in DiPP is Reimu or not. The way she talks doesn't seem like Reimu at all really.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550204
Valid point. But she's a Reimu-analogue anyway.

We should just exterminate the Hakurei line and make a new Gensokyo that doesn't concentrate all the power on people who can abuse it to hell and back with impunity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550210
>We should just exterminate the Hakurei line
That would be an incredibly stupid move.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550271
It's the right thing to do.

If the dragon god came back to Gensokyo, he'd be so disappointed that he'd tear down the barrier himself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550281
Stop with this "dragon god". We know absolutely nothing about it/them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550281
It's not. Hakurei shrine maidens have the power to control the the Great Hakurei Barrier after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550271
hakurei mikos are chosen randomly, they are not blood related.
if not the hakurei line has already been exterminated, reimu has no charms to get a boyfriend.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550281
Yeah, Yukari doesn't agree with you, she was the one who created Gensokyo, and, as stated in both of her Profiles, if she wishes, she just moves a finger, and Gensokyo is destroyed along with everything inside it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550779
Like how she invaded the moon and defeated the moonbitches just by moving a finger, right?

Yeah no, Yukari is by no means the only or even the strongest force that decides on Gensokyo's fate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550799
That was stated by ZUN, also, moon inhabitants aren't from Gensokyo so yeah, no.
Also, it's stated that Yukari was just mocking in the first invasion and let herself fall in Eirin (Bran of The Moon (?) trap...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550814
>moon inhabitants aren't from Gensokyo
Who cares? They can still decide on Gensokyo's fate. In fact, they are deciding on Gensokyo's fate right the fuck now. what with the moonspiders and such.

>Yukari was just mocking in the first invasion
Oh yes, the tested-and-true tactic of "I was only pretending to be retarded".

I bet you believe the bullshit Akyu feeds you too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550837
you just went full retard
Akyu's bs is just in the books (PMiSS, SoPM)
Do you even quote profiles?
"She easily has enough power to annihilate all of Gensokyo if she so desires, so it's probably a good thing that she is somewhat weird..."
Also, in SSiB was more than proved that Yukari make the lunarians look like complete retarded by luring them and make them believe she was the culprit, while Yuyuko was doing some shit up there stealing alcohol and shit...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550854
I do not think it was merely just stealing food stuffs, but the fact that a death invoking greater wraith was strolling around undetected.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550854
>Akyu's bs is just in the books
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/too

Like this:

Yukari planning anything in the first lunar invasion is bullshit, she went there, got her ass handed to her and has been pissed at the moon ever since.

The stuff Akyu writes in her books are also bullshit.

Since you believe the first, I bet you believe in the second, too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550870
Inb4 it was, I think it was just to prove how easy was to her to put someone in the Lunar Capital without anyone noticing it, the alcohol stuff was just a mock I guess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549113
>Did you anyone going ''man I don't like Marisa anymore'' after UFO?
You know, there's only one playable character whose image of a violent sadistic cunt developed in direct response to UFO, and it's Sanae. (Others already had it.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550885
You haven't made any point yet, Yukari's IN profile statement is still valid.
And as I said, and you said, Akyuu's statements ARE bs.

[Anonymous No.]

Something weird I have noticed. None of ZUN's prose works have ever been written from Reimu's first-person point of view. We've gotten first-person accounts from several other characters like Rinnosuke, Marisa, Akyuu, even Yukari (CiLR and that story from Seasonal Dream Vision). Yet we've never gotten a direct look into Reimu's inner thoughts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550993
Even Kanako, Miko and Byakuren got their Symposium.
I think it's because she has nothing to say about, she's a newbie shrine maiden, even Yukare said she should train more. Marisa's at least is interested in SC, hence that why she created GoM, Akyuu is like an historian about Gensokyo, Yukari, well, she's knows everything of Gensokyo and has her opinion about it, but Reimu, if she were to have a side stoy, it would be about the incidents she has resolved, and how she'd camaraderie with youkai even though she is supposed to exterminate them, I think that would be a nice story of hers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549009
>Reimu kills Rumia

The shitstorm would be glorious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549801
>tanuki are creatures that are still believed in Japan

lol where did you get that excuse from?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549943
They don't even know about India.

[proREMIRIAt Elite Force Comman(...) !rSDMROXTB. No.]

>>13549844
They also get a hold on recent stuff too.
I remember Kosuzu reading the news about ebola in one the few first chapters.

>>13549991
>And Patchy shakes her hand
Hnggg, my fucking heart, how did I skip this page, fucking MMCE.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549836
Yet there are many non-japanese in Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550914
Akyuu's statments aren't complete BS. Choujuu Gigaku does make legitimately good music.

[Anonymous No.]

so I'm guessing the original spoiler thread on 2ch was deleted? OP's link doesn't work

[Anonymous No.]

>>13551897
http://yakumo-family.com/fudat/c632980e46e99bc7a8770c2dcefb4c7d/

[Anonymous No.]

>>13551922
cool, thanks

[Anonymous No.]

Continuing the Count argument here.

>>13553484
>you're ignoring Reimu not killing other jinyous again
Yes I am, because it has nothing to do with the argument. Reimu has dumb ideas about what may and may not threaten Gensokyo. She murdered someone because of her dumb ideas. That she doesn't murder other people under other circumstances has nothing to do with this.

Or are you so retarded that you took my "Reimu is spooked by humans-turned-youkai" comment to apply to everyone and not just our village clerk?

>you have not countered a single point
Alright, let's sum up your points:

1. Reimu is right to kill Count because he is a danger to Gensokyo.

But that's wrong, you fucking moron. Reimu killed Count because she thinks that villagers turning into youkai is a problem. She is wrong to do this because there were other ways to resolve the situation. Count by himself does not pose a danger to Gensokyo, he doesn't come with a weaken-barrier aura or whatever, but him becoming youkai may give the humans funny ideas, which is the reason that Reimu killed him. The problem is that nobody knew that Count turned youkai and he even had the courtesy to draw Reimu into a situation where nobody would. So Reimu had the opportunity to defuse the situation peacefully, but she instead opted for murder. This cannot be justified.

2. If Reimu didn't kill him, the Yama would anyway.

That's even dumber. The Yama orders hits against humans who unnaturally extend their lives, thus acting less like humans. Okay, read this again: Humans who extend their lives. Humans.

Count is not human. Nobody gives a shit about what he was or what his motives were for becoming youkai, he's youkai now. He's subject to youkai rules and expected to act like youkai. The Yama would have been opposed to his dabbling in fortune telling in life and maybe even interfered in his plan to become youkai, because that's not very human-like. But now that he's youkai, she should have nothing but praise for him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550120
>I think you're forgetting the fact that Youkais in Gensokyo eat humans
Not since the spellcard rules they don't.
>>13550127
>So your argument is: "she cannot scare humans because she is scared of zombies".
No, my argument is that what she did backfired.
>Where does it say she's scared?
Why would she ask for help in defeating her? Also that's not the point here, the point here is that she's not doing a good job in scaring people if a) she legitimately believes normal humans are gonna go to a graveyard in fucking Gensokyo and b) she has someone bothering her.
>She just doesn't want to
With enough goheis in the butthole she can, that's exactly how her old plan was thwarted.
>But he is
He's not, again, that's like saying Okuu is a nuclear plant manager youkai. He's nondescript like Rumia. There is no belief that fortune tellers are human-turned-monsters.
>Like all youkai
I don't see how smith!Kogasa would be a tumour on mankind, or Keine protecting the president.
>As opposed to having your head bashed in by a powertripping shrine maiden?
Yes, this one is quicker and isn't related to physical pain, unlike what the slavs would do. Remember that he was still talking even though his head had been just cut in half.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550314
>hakurei mikos are chosen randomly, they are not blood related.
Stop with this bullshit, that's only an emergency procedure when the current Hakurei shrine maiden dies, mentioned by Aya. Mima confirms that Reimu is blood-related to the Hakurei.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550190
> Nah, the reason Reimu killed Count is that a village human becoming a youkai disturbs the "humans fear youkai, youkai are exterminated by humans" atmosphere of Gensokyo.
>But she had the means to mitigate the issue without resorting to murder
Please stop with your assumptions.

She herself said in her face that becoming a jinyou in Gensokyo is considered the biggest sin and that he should have done more research.
>Count's only fault was that he was a dude
Oh fuck off.
>See, Reimu was perfectly fine letting the dudes in DiPP die
That's not Reimu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13551034
>>13550993
>Yet we've never gotten a direct look into Reimu's inner thoughts.
>I think it's because she has nothing to say about
We have actually, once, at the very end of SoPM when Miko reads her, a very peculiar read actually, a complete 180 to the image everyone had of Reimu...ignoring all the endings with the tea parties anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13551161
Google ''tanuki shrine'' and check all the shrines. They honor them as saviors even.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13553621
>She murdered someone because of her dumb ideas
Could you please stop with this? Where does it even remotely say that she did this because of her thoughts? She said that he didn't do enough research, he should have known that if he did what he did, he would be hunted down.
>Reimu killed Count because she thinks that villagers turning into youkai is a problem.
Source?
> Okay, read this again: Humans who extend their lives. Humans.
Not only did he kill himself, something morally wrong enough already, but he extended his lifespan. Where did you get that it's just humans?
>But now that he's youkai, she should have nothing but praise for him.
Wrong, he said he was going to do nothing youkai-like and live a peaceful life. That's not being a good youkai.

That's another thing you ignored, him not doing youkai-things means he'd stop existing even without anyone else killing him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13549801
Not only Tanuki. Kappa too are still believed in. Some rivers and lakes have warnings not to go into the waters for fear of kappa drowning you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550210
But the Hakurei aren't the ones calling the shots, the youkai sages are, like Yukari who has Reimu as a pawn and encourages to beat up youkai even when Reimu thinks they're innocent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13553888
>dies
*without a heir.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13553621
>Yes I am, because it has nothing to do with the argument
>Or are you so retarded that you took my "Reimu is spooked by humans-turned-youkai" comment to apply to everyone and not just our village clerk?
You said she had that general belief (i.e: something that applies to all cases and not just one), you probably either didn't notice how wrong that was or you worded it incorrectly so now you're backpedaling, plus it doesn't make sense since Byakuren should be dead since she's the biggest offender going by your assumptions.

Rinnosuke too, since he's half-youkai, him still being alive tells people that it's a-ok to procreate with youkai and multiply their numbers, yet he's still kicking.

The whole thing is a law. That's why she told him that he should have done more research. What, you think that Yukari isn't spying every second of Reimu's life? OSP reveals that she had a hidden camera doing just that till Reimu smashed it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548239
the kappa is funny enough more relevant than most touhous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13553886
>Not since the spellcard rules they don't.
Looks like you didn't get the idea for what de SC where created for...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554053
>for what de SC where created for...
what the fuck are you even trying to say.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13553935
>Where does it even remotely say that she did this because of her thoughts?
In the fucking chapter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554065
In the chapter she says that she kills him because it's the biggest sin in Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554053
Wait, did he seriously believe that youkai stopped eating humans since the creation of the SC rules?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554059
Sorry about that.
What I'm trying to say is that Spell card rules where created so that Humans can have a chance against Youkai and engage in a fair duel with each side having a possibilities of winning.
Youkais obviously eat humans, that what the are for, maybe they just eat the "spirited-away" ones, but every human in the village knows what the do...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554082
>Youkais obviously eat humans
Not all Youkai do my friend. But they do need belief

[Anonymous No.]

>>13548190
Does ZUN tell his artists to make every single one of the kappa girls or are they just yurifags pushing their secondary delusions onto the setting?

Also how come the kappa are the only youkai species we see outside of the main cast? We still haven't seen any non-cast tengu, oni, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554082
>Youkais obviously eat humans
The spellcard rules explicitly say that youkai cannot eat humans, the only exception being outside world humans, and only if they don't find Reimu first to either send them back out to the outside world or integrate them into the village, in which they gain the ''immunity'' that all the other villagers have.

Also the point here is that someone said that because youkai eat humans then Kogasa would be spooky, so Kogasa's audience would be limited only to the sheer chance of outside world humans glitching through the barrier and happening to be unlucky enough to land in the graveyard...that is, if they're actually scared by a cute girl showing them her tongue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554107
Well, that's correct, like Kogasa or Nue who eat "fear" or something like that lel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554109
>Does ZUN tell his artists to make every single one of the kappa girls or are they just yurifags pushing their secondary delusions onto the setting?
Did you forget that ZUN himself is the one who pushed the ''girls everywhere'' thing in the first place?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554123
/u/ please, don't you dare imply that ZUN gives the slightest fuck about your delusions. ZUN's cast is all-female only because he doesn't like composing themes for dudes and can't draw them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554113
You just repeated what I said, they eat humans (spirited-aways ones, the ones that have given up life), if you encounter a Youkai in Gensokyo, knowing the do eat humans to live, what would you do? "oh, it's a youkai, I'll engage in a beautiful spellcard duel" seriously? I think most of the villager would run away...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554134
>/u/ please, don't you dare imply that ZUN gives the slightest fuck about your delusions
First of all, I didn't say anything about him intending them to be lesbians, second, you're the one that implied that because all the kappa drawn were girls then it must be yurifag delusion.
>ZUN's cast is all-female only because he doesn't like composing themes for dudes and can't draw them.
Bullshit, pic related. Also he drew Genji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554113
Spell card rules only apply to spell card battles, a duel that both partcipants agree to.
If you challenge a youkai to a spell card battle, they agree and you lose, the rules state that they are not allowed to eat you.
If you go out and night and happen to come across a youkai, rules for a silly game won't help you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554109
most of the kappa are random.
with the exception of that one yamawaro girl and the black haired kappa that appears with Nitori literally everytime she appears.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554071
Just read the fucking chapter.

>>13554109
>We still haven't seen any non-cast tengu
Yes we did.

>oni
They just don't live in Gensokyo anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554135
>knowing the do eat humans to live
They don't, they subsist on doing youkai-like things because it's like Umineko where they live by belief. Eating humans is a youkai-like thing, that option is now prohibited by the spellcard rules and limited to just unlucky outsiders.
>Spell card rules only apply to spell card battles
They apply to everything, otherwise a youkai could just say ''no'' to your deal and eat you meaning the rules would matter jack shit to them.

Why do you think ZUN had to include a part that says that only outsiders who haven't integrated into the village are allowed to be eaten?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554154
I always see the same few Kappa (glasses Kappa, spiky hair kappa, black haired bob-cut kappa, etc.)
Who drew them first? Aya? The other artists are probably just copying that design.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554162
What about it? The law is the law, he didn't know about the law, his fault, Reimu is only doing her job, and Yukari, the big cheese using her as a pawn, approves of it too since she didn't pop out of nowhere and go ''Reimu that was a bad thing'' like she did when she forgot to take care of a tree in OSP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554162
They still live in Gensokyo, just in the Former Capital :P

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554176
> youkai could just say ''no'' to your deal and eat you meaning the rules would matter jack shit to them.

They can. The reason they respect the spell card rules is because it allows them to go all out against the Hakurei shrine maiden without endangering Gensoukyou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554176
Well Spellcards aren't a "must-do", as we see in ISC, Seija cheated and used Impossible to dodge Spellcards, so yeah, no. Youkais can ignore the rules I guess....

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554154
There have been quite a few recurring kappa in WaHH.

It's impossible to tell with certainty, but the three leftmost girls in >>13548190 kinda look like the three most popular of them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554190
>They can
Show me. Even the youkai that should be killing the heroine opt for the safe spellcards, like Yuyuko, Utsuho and especially Seija.

Also Byakuren somehow had spellcards despite being sealed for millenia.
>>13554198
They aren't impossible though, the ones that everyone throws at Seija can be dodged without using any item, you even get a special message if you do so.

If youkai could ignore rules then the rules wouldn't matter jack shit, there's no CCTV spying on every single youkai at all times.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554198
*Seija's opponents cheated by using impossible to dodge spell cards

and Seija cheated with items.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554207
>>13554177
Yeah, the spike and glasses appear alot too, but the bob cut appears the most.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554215
>and Seija cheated with items.
Those items aren't breaking the spellcard rules.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554215
It was a "cheating back at you", but they did it, and ignored the rules, that's the point. Also, Yukari stated they villager humans, aren't "generally" for eating under the contract....

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554238
She hinted that there's some shady shit going on, saying that ''youkai are getting their meat from SOMEWHERE''. Just ambiguity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554214
>Show me.
WaHH noteppu,
WaHH youkai yamainu

Touhou is a danmaku game, so ZUN wouldn't itntroduce bosses that don't use danmaku. You can only find those in the printworks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554254
>WaHH noteppu
>WaHH youkai yamainu
What?
>Touhou is a danmaku game, so ZUN wouldn't itntroduce bosses that don't use danmaku
We're talking from a story point, not a gameplay point. There's no reason why the villains are still using the safe as hell spellcard rules. Also again, how the hell did Byakuren have spellcards?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554246
That was just a misphrasing on translator's part. The original didn't imply any of the things you think it implies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554282
shit, let's discard everything we have cause there might be translation issues, like the translation of IN that added swearing for no reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554269
You're wondering about Byakuren when Nazrin, Shou, Minamitsu and Nue where also sealed in the hell for millenia? That's just a ZUN thing it menas nothing.

[Anonymous No.]

The only reason youkai prefer to confront Reimu with spellcards is because Reimu exterminates rogue humans who turned into monsters.

Should the human population decide to become monster themselves, due to there not being anyone to stop them, gensokyo's source for fear/faith/superstition would cease to exist and it would evaporate in a puff of logic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554269
>how the hell did Byakuren have spellcards?

Not him, but it's a game. It doesn't need to be explained. It's the same reason Seiran and Ringo are using spellcards. They're from the moon and the Watatsukis ignored the spellcard rules.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554288
>when Nazrin, Shou, Minamitsu and Nue where also sealed in the hell for millenia?
Unlike Byakuren, they don't inmediately have spellcards the very second they're unsealed.
>That's just a ZUN thing
so, bad writing, and writing is what we're talking about so that's an issue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554269
From a gameplay standpoint someone with spellcards don't fight any different from someone who doesn't use them. So it really didn't matter if she did or didn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554296
Byakuren is teaching them that youkai are friendly, reducing the fear humans have in youkai, nobody's doing anything about her.
>it would evaporate
No, just the youkai, the land isn't going anywhere. The barrier is there to protect youkai from outsiders' deadly nonbelief ala Umineko and the only way that's going poof instantly is if Reimu dies without a heir.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554297
>but it's a game
The fact that Byakuren had spellcards is part of the story, and that's what we're discussing.
>It's the same reason Seiran and Ringo are using spellcards
Another unexplained thing.
>>13554305
>From a gameplay standpoint someone with spellcards don't fight any different from someone who doesn't use them
Course it does, how the hell doesn't it? She uses spellcards, meanwhile PC-98 bosses didn't, just good old danmaku. Utsuho should be roasting enemies instantly and Yuyuko should just kill them with her thoughts yet they both resort to good old roody tooty shooty booty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554327
>PC-98 bosses didn't
Cept it played pretty much the same way,
they just never announced their attacks.
It's really not that different you know.
Go play the pc98 games.

[Anonymous No.]

Enemies in touhou have been attacking you with bullets long before ZUN thought of the spell card idea, and now he just gave fancy names to the attacks.

It's a game. There's no value in discussion how they could know what a spell card is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554286
>let's discard everything we have cause there might be translation issues

Umm, no, let's just consult the original version whenever possible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554301
Sorry about that, Sir. English isn't my native language so I'm trying my best.
>Unlike Byakuren, they don't inmediately have spellcards the very second they're unsealed.
What about Miko? Also, isn't the underground youkai allowed to kill humans, as Yukari stated that they haven't made any nonintervention pact?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554341
>Cept it played pretty much the same way,
It doesn't matter, the point is they didn't have spellcards because they literally did not exist in their time. Meanwhile Byakuren does have them. This isn't about gameplay, again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554343
but who are we to trust with a proper translation?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554353
This is about gameplay because Windows Touhou games are structured with spellcards, holy shit how retarded can you get

Even the moon rabbits are playing with spellcards despite being a goddamn invasion force that is not covered by the spellcard contract

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554310
But Byakuren is full of shit. Some youkai are extremely dangerous, not better than rabid animals. She means well, but she looks away to things like Murasa drowning the people who were accompanying Byakuren when she was sent to exorcise her.

"Good" youkai may only be found in those who used to be humans. The others are far too inhuman and do not behave like such. Fr example, Yuyuko does not hate humanity and Remilia claims to eat very little and thus doesn't kill her victims, but it is far more likely that she chooses not to fully drain them dry. Both were humans at some point.

But things like Rumia or Nitori? No way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554353
>Also Byakuren somehow had spellcards despite being sealed for millenia.

What are you even trying to prove here? What is your point?

So, bosses use spell cards in the games and ZUN never explained where they go them from. So what?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554327
Didn't Yuyuko killed humans indiscriminately by "inviting" them to the Netherworld?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554353
Cept gameplay DOES matter in this situation.
The game wouldn't suddenly change if their opponent didn't use spellcards. PC98 games didn't use any and it played literally the same way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554372
No, that was the murderous youkai tree.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554368
Murasa used to be human too, she's a ghost. Human-based youkai can be dicks as well, and nonhuman ones like the tsukumogami can learn to be civil.

But don't try to argue with that moron, he nitpicks at trivial nonsense while restating his position over and over again and ignoring any point made against him. It's a futile endeavor to tell him that he's wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554390
So, tree should have used Spellcards according to the logic of the anon that was defending the SC being a must-do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554342
>Enemies in touhou have been attacking you with bullets long before ZUN thought of the spell card idea
What does that have to do with anything? The sole thing being talked about here is that Byakuren has spellcards, nothing else, it doesn't matter if it's literally the same as before, there were no spellcards back then yet she somehow has them. That's not all, but enemies who should be killing the heroine also resort to harmless spellcards.
>>13554348
Bunch of bitches shouldn't have spellcards, ZUN drinks so much he probably doesn't even remember what he had for breakfast yesterday.
>>13554364
>This is about gameplay
No it isn't, what the hell does Byakuren having spellcards have to do with gameplay? Nothing, because as you said, the gameplay is the same, NOT THE STORY.
>>13554368
>But Byakuren is full of shit
Doesn't matter, people are eating her shit up, also remember that she's trying to bring together both youkai and humans rather than just convince humans that youkai are friendly.
>>13554370
>What are you even trying to prove here? What is your point?
I'm just pointing out events that have no explanation other than spellcard rules not being ignored.
>>13554383
>The game wouldn't suddenly change if their opponent didn't use spellcards.
Good thing we're not talking about the game but the story and only the story, jesus fuck what's wrong with you? If UFO was a manga then it'd still be an issue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554404
Yuyuko or the tree didn't kill Reimu when they should have and resorted to harmless spellcards, explain that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554406
Jesus you must be retarded.
She has spellcards BECAUSE of game mechanics.
Would you be happy if it was just like pc98? Literally nothing would change.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554401
Real nice of you to just discard what your opponent says by using insults when you yourself can't argue back.

You don't even know the point being argued here. Byakuren is succesfully making humans trust youkai, that's the only thing that matters here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554418
>She has spellcards BECAUSE of game mechanics.
Wrong, the game mechanics are the same as PC-98 as you said yet they didn't have spellcards back then. Stop talking about gameplay.
>Would you be happy if it was just like pc98?
Uh yes? If she didn't use spellcards then that would explain that plothole. Danmaku existed before the spellcard rules, spellcards didn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554434
>that would explain that plothole.
Rather, that plothole wouldn't exist in the first place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554416
Yuyuko was trying to make the tree bloom in order to awaken the soul sleeping beneath it (herself). And I do not think the tree didn't try. Reimu/Marisa/Sakuya should have died when they entered the realm of the dead, but because of the Spring they held in their power their souls weren't ripped out of their bodies.

it was a lucky coincidence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554434
Byakuren literally says she'll resist them with all her strength, story wise she doesn't mention spellcards at all.
We only see spellcards is because of the U.I, this is a gameplay issue not story issue.

So you're telling me you're having a bitch fit over Byakuren having announced attacks?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554422
>Byakuren is succesfully making humans trust youkai, that's the only thing that matters here.
Yeah, the only point that I haven't argued against is suddenly the only point that matters. Real smooth.

But yes, you're right, if Byakuren ever succeeds in her endeavor, she'll get summarily fucked. But fortunately she's a creepy monk with a temple full of maneaters, so if anything she's unintentionally contributing to the fear of youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554450
>story wise she doesn't mention spellcards at all.
You can see the names of her spellcards, spellcards ARE shouted in battle.
>We only see spellcards is because of the U.I, this is a gameplay issue not story issue.
Wrong, the spellcards did not exist back then yet she has them.
>So you're telling me you're having a bitch fit over Byakuren having announced attacks?
And those announced attacks are spellcards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554416
That doesn't mean she can't use her ability because of the sc, she did used it without warning against Mokou, and tried to kill her, yet, she couldn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554457
>Wrong, the spellcards did not exist back then yet she has them.
Spellcards existed back then. This is the 12th game of the Touhou series. Gameplay-wise, spellcards existed since the sixth game.

She has spellcards because you see, Windows bosses have spellcards. What is so difficult to understand?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554457
So you ARE having a bitch fit over her having announced attacks in gameplay,
so you ARE having a issue with a gameplay issue NOT story issue.
This plothole you speak of doesn't exist.
They just fought.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554450
>>13554434
yes. the UI, the scoring mechanic, etc.

It's in the game engine. Bosses have a number of spell cards. A spell card gives you score for beating it, and has a counter ( beaten 1/37 times), and everything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13550799

She sort of is the #1 in Gensokyo. There are others who are around her level, but she is still considered THE youkai when Gensokyo is concerned.

But there are probably more powerful individuals outside of Gensokyo. You have Hell, Heaven, Moon, Makai. But Yukari is still heavyweight division even including outside.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554456
>Yeah, the only point that I haven't argued against is suddenly the only point that matters
You're the one that said ''don't try to argue with that moron'', as if not only my point didn't matter but that the guy you're replying to was right, meaning you didn't even know what we were talking about, otherwise you wouldn't have made such stupid comment about Murasa like it was relevant at all.
>, if Byakuren ever succeeds in her endeavor
Why did you say ''if''? She has tons of human followers, i.e: people trusting youkai, i.e: according to the original poster, something that would make Byakuren the biggest offender by far, meaning the assumption of ''Reimu killing the jinyou to avoid villagers lose their fear of youkai and incite them to transform as well'' can't be true. Not to mention, turning into a youkai means a) committing suicide and b) having strong enough will to control your emotions so as to not become a vengeful spirit. Nobody in the village even knew what he had done so Reimu didn't have to fear anything at all, and not like Kosuzu isn't being tempted to do the jump anyhow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554467
>Spellcards existed back then.
No they didn't, also, she's going by the spellcard rules which means she also somehow know about shouting your attacks, the attacks being non-lethal and giving up when you run out of spellcards.
>>13554468
>so you ARE having a issue with a gameplay issue NOT story issue.
What the fuck does shouting your spellcards have to do with gameplay at all?
>This plothole you speak of doesn't exist.
Yes it does, she should never have shouted the spellcards because that action did not exist prior to the spellcard rules.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554499
>What does GAMEPLAY have to do with GAMEPLAY?

If you don't understand how a game engine works then you really shouldn't complain.
What you're telling me is that you want ZUN to change the way his games work just for a SINGLE character?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554483
I never fully understood what Yuyuko's fan background is supposed to mean.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554499
Weren't you supposed to argue against youkai eating humans?

And now look at you, arguing against shouting spell card names.

You've forgotton your purpose. Start over again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554486
>you wouldn't have made such stupid comment about Murasa like it was relevant at all
I was replying to his "only youkai that originate from humans can be civil" comment by saying that there are human-based youkai that are jerks (like Murasa) and inhuman youkai who are nice (like Kogasa). Perfectly relevant, but at this point I'm no longer expecting any reading comprehension from you.

As for the rest of your post, so okay, let me put it this way. Why is it law that human villagers that turn into youkai must be executed, but it's fine if you do it elsewhere?

If you paid attention to Gensokyo's setting instead of being anal about its wording, you'd notice why. It's obvious, really.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554503
google 御所車 扇子.
It's just a traditional design, I doubt it has a special meaning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554475
>It's in the game engine
You still don't get what we're talking about? Let me put it this way. If UFO was a manga, the plothole would still be there, do you understand now? Could you please shut up about the game mechanics already? How hard is it for ZUN to just not have put a little name whenever Byakuren attacks or at least shown some explanation as to how the hell does she know the spellcard rules?
>>13554502
>What you're telling me is that you want ZUN to change the way his games work just for a SINGLE character?
Not only is that his problem since because of that the plothole is happening, but it's also a fucking line of text that he'd have to remove, or at least explain how Byakuren knows about the spellcard rules. Remember that bosses also have normal attacks without names, why couldn't he just do that over and over without spellcard names actually appearing?
>>13554508
>Weren't you supposed to argue against youkai eating humans?
If you follow the conversation you'd know that these are points that strengthen the spellcard rules' influence by them being more than just ink on paper, since there are characters that, for no reason, are following them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554508
Youkais eat/kill humans, underground youkais kill them without remorse and Yukari doesn't give a shit. It's illogic to say that they don't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554528
So once again, you have a issue with game mechanics.
Story wise there's no plothole.
Story doesn't always have to equal gameplay.

For example in MS all the protags go and solve the incident together. However you only play as one of them, does this mean it's a plothole? No because that's just gameplay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554446
>Reimu/Marisa/Sakuya should have died when they entered the realm of the dead, but because of the Spring they held in their power their souls weren't ripped out of their bodies.
Where is that stated?
>>13554517
>Perfectly relevant, but at this point I'm no longer expecting any reading comprehension from you.
But you were supporting his point even though you had no idea what we were even arguing, also the point here is that you tried to discard what I said by saying ''no don't argue that guy he's a dick'' because you think that your assumptions are facts.
>Why is it law that human villagers that turn into youkai must be executed, but it's fine if you do it elsewhere?
Ask ZUN.
>you'd notice why. It's obvious, really.
Irrelevant assumptions, anyone could say anything they want, for example, maybe becoming a jinyou affects the barrier.

Also, this whole thing was about Reimu's morality, since it's a law, then she's just following the law, doing her job (and SoPM reveals that in reality she hates violence), what's wrong with this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554541
Ending of Perfect Cherry Blossom. Play the games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554537
>So once again, you have a issue with game mechanics.
Could you please shut up about game mechanics already? It's really annoying, a line of text not being there when Byakuren does her attacks wouldn't change the game at all, because she's already doing that prior to doing her spellcards, as does every other boss, remember? They first have a normal, nameless attack.
>For example in MS all the protags go and solve the incident together
And the canon route is generally shown, not sure if MS' was ever shown though but the assumption is always Reimu's route. That aspect is accounted for by ZUN revealing the canon route one way or another, meaning the other routes are just What Ifs. Meanwhile, Byakuren having spellcards has yet to be explained.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554546
>Ending of Perfect Cherry Blossom
There's a bunch of em, which one?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554554
Reimu, I think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554552
SSiB is a manga, Yorihime used "spell cards", there were no plot holes.

UFO is a game, Byakuren uses spell cards.

You'll just have to imagine that she's introduced to spell card battles by the player character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554558
...again, Reimu has multiple endings, which one?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554561
>Yorihime used "spell cards"
Yeah cause Marisa begged her to, because she was about to murder them by not using spellcards, remember?
>UFO is a game, Byakuren uses spell cards.
For no reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554552
Once again, issues with game mechanics.
I won't shut up because I'm not wrong here.
ZUN could have but ZUN didn't, storywise she doesn't even mention spellcards but instead talks of attacking with full strength.

Also, you talk as if it's easy to remove a spellcard from a boss, or rather you talk as if it's worth doing.
Do you even know how these games work?

Also, if it hurts your mind so much just imagine that she's announcing her attacks during gameplay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554541
No, I was saying two different things. One, what you said about only former humans being good youkai is wrong. Two, don't argue with that guy, he's a moron. Point one and point two do not have anything to do with one another.

I wasn't even saying that your point was wrong, just that it wasn't worth his time to argue with you.

>since it's a law, then she's just following the law
Earthly laws are not infallible, following them can be wrong. War crimes are performed under legal sanction too and you don't see any country going "nah we're not going to pay any reparation, it's our law so we were in the right" after war.

>maybe becoming a jinyou affects the barrier
Total bullshit. You should be able to figure out why. Hint: Reimu didn't kill other people who became youkai after the barrier was erected.

>>13554571
Okay now you're either really retarded or trolling.

Here is what you're saying. In Case A, Yorihime used spellcards because she was told to. But obviously this is impossible in Case B, it's physically impossible for anyone to have talked to Byakuren about spell cards before the battle, Byakuren used spell cards for no reason.

Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554575
>Once again, issues with game mechanics.
What the shit does a line of text (name of the spellcard) have to do with game mechanics? NOTHING would change if that line wasn't there, that line literally only exists there for story purposes, it doesn't affect gameplay at all.
>but instead talks of attacking with full strength.
Barely anyone ever mentions spellcards, why would she have to mention them? And what's wrong with saying ''full strength'' in spellcard battles? Did you forget Marisa in Fairy Wars NOT going at full strength in a spellcard battle?
>Also, you talk as if it's easy to remove a spellcard from a boss, or rather you talk as if it's worth doing.
I talk only in the sense that, because it's there, and because there's no explanation, it creates a plothole. What is it with you saying ''oh don't be so hard on him, it must be tough to remove that''? It's HIS fault this plothole happened, you know. Okay, let's not remove that line of text because according to your it's sooooo hard, now, let's just have a little explanation as to why Byakuren knows about spellcard rules, like say her youkai followers explaining it to her prior to fighting the heroine, is that so hard?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554591
>Still doesn't get gameplay/=/story

How about you go back to your original point.
Because you're arguing nothing here then screaming G-GAMEPLAY DOESN'T MATTER.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554591
>let's just have a little explanation as to why Byakuren knows about spellcard rules, like say her youkai followers explaining it to her prior to fighting the heroine, is that so hard
Maybe ZUN thought that it would be obvious but looks like you're too dumb to figure that out with your "no interpretations allowed" attitude.

Like how it's obvious that Reimu kills jinyou because it's harmful for humans to know that they can go youkai instead of the process in itself somehow being harmful to the barrier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554583
>Earthly laws are not infallible, following them can be wrong
Good thing we're not talking in the sense of the real world's sense of morality but rather Gensokyo's law.
>War crimes are performed under legal sanction too and you don't see any country going "nah we're not going to pay any reparation, it's our law so we were in the right" after war.
Except the UN exists for that.

Slavery is something considered immoral nowadays, yet it was approved by the law back then.
> Reimu didn't kill other people who became youkai
I can only think of Alice, and she was in Makai. Also that's another point, why only the count and not those youkai you're speaking of? Only a few, who didn't give a shit, knew what the count was.

Also, again, Byakuren. The extremely popular jinyou who has influenced humans hundreds of times more than what the count could even do.
> But obviously this is impossible in Case B, it's physically impossible for anyone to have talked to Byakuren about spell cards before the battle
Well yes, you fight Byakuren literally the moment because the heroine is the one that unseals her.

Also, you're using assumptions for Byakuren's case, not the case with Yorihime whom we explicitly see getting asked to use spellcards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554600
You're not even reading my posts, for the billionth time, HOW does the name of the spellcard affect gameplay?
>>13554608
>Maybe ZUN thought that it would be obvious but looks like you're too dumb to figure that out with your "no interpretations allowed" attitude.
There is no ''obvious'', any assumption cannot be taken as canon, especially since ZUN is such a wild card.
>Like how it's obvious that Reimu kills jinyou because it's harmful for humans to know that they can go youkai instead of the process in itself somehow being harmful to the barrier.
There you go again with your assumptions. Why would Reimu only say ''it's the law, you should have done more research'' to a guy she's killing if there was another reason?

Here's a testament as to why assumptions shouldn't be taken seriously, did you really expect, at the end of SoPM, for Miko's reading to reveal that Reimu is actually a pacifist? Did anything lead to that? Any hints?

Also, again, she's following the law, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, in fact, if she hadn't followed the law, she would have done wrong, because this is Gensokyo. Yukari is always watching her, whenever she does something Yukari dislikes, she pops out and corrects her, like when she forgot to take care of a tree.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554638
How does gameplay affect story?
All you're doing is bitching about a gameplay issue then complaining about it being a story issue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554638
>HOW does the name of the spellcard affect gameplay?

Scoring, Spell Practice, Immersion

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554638
>Why would Reimu only say ''it's the law, you should have done more research'' to a guy she's killing if there was another reason?
Maybe because if he had done more research, he'd know that jinyou can weaken the human/youkai divide and so are exterminated on sight? She's out to murder the dude, not to give him a course on Gensokyo's social system.

But mostly because she's a cheeky cunt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554646
>How does gameplay affect story?
Oh my goodness, you've yet to show how does that line of text affects gameplay in the slightest. Explain to me what part of the gameplay would change if that line wasn't there. I mean, going by your logic, even the dialogue between characters is a gameplay mechanic because it's literally the same thing: lines of text.
>>13554647
>Scoring
>Spell practice
Explain to me how would those be affected if the ''spellcard'' didn't have a name, rather, it would just be ''Byakuren's second attack'' in the spell practice menu, without a spellcard description by ZUN.
>Immersion
Not explaining how Byakuren knows about spellcards sure is ruining immersion.
>>13554657
>if he had done more research, he'd know that jinyou can weaken the human/youkai divide and so are exterminated on sight?
First of all, Reimu says the ''you should have done more research'' line right before the ''being a jinyou is the biggest sin in Gensokyo'' with ellipses to connect them both, so no, you're wrong. Second, that's not research, that's just basic logic, in fact, HE was helping that cause by being telling Reimu that he was a peaceful youkai, because that's how he planned to avoid getting exterminated, so he knew what he was doing was help the image of a youkai, as well as the fact that he knew that Reimu hanged around youkai.

>But mostly because she's a cheeky cunt
Why did you ignore everything else that I said? That's not very nice. Like how Reimu is a pacifist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554682
Didn't in TD Reimu realised she was mistaken, and after talking, Miko said that Reimu would attack her for no reason at all, even though Miko's resurrection was a good thing to happen. If attacking someone without any reason isn't being a cunt, then I don't know what it is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554682
>Still doesn't get it.
Alright pal, tell me how that line of text affects story
>dialogue is the same thing as playing the game
Alright, I'm done.
Dialogue=story
if ZUN wanted he could make something happen between characters that literally can't happen in gameplay.

And actually funny enough, it goes both ways.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554682
I ignored everything else because you're not worth arguing with. I'm in the right anyway, and you aren't providing any evidence that it may be otherwise.

But here's your reply: We got a shitton of evidence that Reimu is a huge bitch from all the manga and games, and you somehow think that one line in SoPM overrides all her behavior because in her heart of hearts she apparently likes peace. Yeah, that totally excuses her kicking fairies around and outright murdering people for doing something they didn't know they shouldn't have.

Wait no, it doesn't. Reimu is canonically a cunt and I wouldn't have her any other way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554682
>>13554713
I disagree with both of you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554698
>Alright pal, tell me how that line of text affects story
I've told you a hundred times, that line being there implies Byakuren knew about spellcards even though she shouldn't have.
>Dialogue=story
Characters having spellcards aren't story how?
>>13554695
>Didn't in TD Reimu realised she was mistaken
Nowhere does it say that. Miko battles her because she says it will make her a legend. Remember that Miko apologizes to Reimu in Reimu's ending for causing the incident.
>>13554713
>I ignored everything else because you're not worth arguing with
This is like the second time you discard everything for no reason.
>Yeah, that totally excuses
It excuses any act of violence because it shows that she's just doing her job, and her real self is a pacifist.
>her kicking fairies
Oh you're one of those that didn't notice that they invaded her house and were sleeping on her doorway, plus they're youkai, she should kill them.
> and outright murdering people for doing something they didn't know they shouldn't have.
Are you for real? Are you seriously saying that because someone didn't know the law then they're innocent? Yeah go tell that to the judge, that you didn't know that raping little girls was illegal
> Reimu is canonically a cunt and I wouldn't have her any other way.
Too bad, SoPM reveals that she's canonically a pacifist.

Nice job avoiding having to argue that second-to-last paragraph and just going back to ''no you're wrong I'm right''.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554695
>even though Miko's resurrection was a good thing to happen
...how?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554735
Alright man, if you're going to be this stupid there's no use explaining to you.
One last thing though,
What you the player does is NOT the same thing as what actually happened. Same goes for the story and bosses.
Using your FW example, you can fucking ace Marisa but in the end Cirno comes out tired like she just fought for her life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554749
>What you the player does is NOT the same thing as what actually happened.
Good thing that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Byakuren has spellcards, named spellcards at that, that's not comparable to your prowess which isn't ''canon'', rather, what's canon is ''x beat y'', another canon thing is ''Byakuren had spellcards even though she shouldn't have''.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554760
Your whole spell card bitching argument also has nothing to do with youkai eating humans or that spell card rules only apply during spell card battles, yet you continue to waste everyone's time with it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554735
>It excuses any act of violence because it shows that she's just doing her job, and her real self is a pacifist.
Yeah, I think I'll end this on this note. You'll just repeat this over and over again because you have no real point to make. Reimu is a robot who will murder because it's her job and there's nothing wrong with that.

Holy shit, how dumb can you get?

>>13554721
Let's not go there. You can't face the wrath of two autists combined.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554760
>Gameplay doesn't matter until I say it does!

Thanks for proving my point. You're continuing to complain about gameplay.

[Anonymous No.]

Here, I'll end this argument. Byakuren never knew about the spellcard rules. The "names" of spellcards you see on the screen are simply the keywords she gives her sutra scroll to make them begin an attack. Problem solved. Lets go home.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554771
> also has nothing to do with youkai eating humans
It does, as I've said before, this alongside bosses that shouldn't be using harmless spellcards at all like Utsuho and Seija, means that the spellcard rules hold more ground than just ink on paper.
>>13554774
>You'll just repeat this over and over again because you have no real point to make.
Excuse me? You're doing nothing but dancing around that point because you know you can't argue against it. SoPM objectively reveals that Reimu is a pacifist, there's absolutely nothing you can say about it (hence why you haven't and just keep pretending that following the law is wrong).
>Reimu is a robot who will murder because it's her job and there's nothing wrong with that
Yes, did you forget that what she does is what's considered morally right and also what's EXPECTED of her in Gensokyo? If Gensokyo had a law saying that the shrine maiden must rape every girl she sees, guess what, she's being a good girl by doing that.

She has both bases covered: following the law AND deep down being a morally good girl.

Come on, you ignore everything I say when you can't argue and always resort to ''no I'm right you're wrong''. You couldn't argue against Reimu following the law and you couldn't argue against SoPM revealing she's a pacifist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554775
> until I say it does!
What part of gameplay did I say matters? If anything I just discarded literally all of it by stating that your prowess, i.e: the gameplay, is irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554794
use dangerous attacks --> kill shrine maiden --> kill gensokyo --> bad end

That's why they use spell cards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554802
And where does spellcards appear?
Gameplay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554794
>If Gensokyo had a law saying that the shrine maiden must rape every girl she sees, guess what, she's being a good girl by doing that.
>She has both bases covered: following the law AND deep down being a morally good girl.
Okay, you made me laugh. So this wasn't a waste, after all.

>SoPM revealing she's a pacifist.
SoPM didn't reveal shit, Miko said that. Miko is also a notorious swindler that tricks humans into shady hermit rituals that don't do anything.

How can you claim that she wasn't lying to draw Reimu to her side? It's your interpretation that Miko was telling the truth. Please don't inject your interpretations into the pure and sublime canon of Touhou!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554794
There's things that go against the whole Pacifist thing.
Such as attacking Tokiko for absolutely no reason you know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554810
>Miko is also a notorious swindler that tricks humans into shady hermit rituals that don't do anything.
What? Where did you get that? Humans CHOOSE to follow Miko, even Miko doesn't give a single shit about them, she just uses them as couriers and servants. They are just people sitting at her back waiting for her to teach them something.
I think tricking people is far to low for a Saint.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554792
>The "names" of spellcards you see on the screen are simply the keywords she gives her sutra scroll to make them begin an attack
That's an assumption, irrelevant, not to mention a wrong one since she also happens to follow the spellcard rules.
>>13554806
Gameplay is not a ''visual'', are you seriously saying that because the text in question happens while you have control of a character then it doesn't count as story?
>>13554804
Yeah I know that, what does that have to do with what we're talking about?
>>13554810
>Okay, you made me laugh. So this wasn't a waste, after all.
Cool counterargument.
>SoPM didn't reveal shit, Miko said that
Good job ignoring Reimu stuttering when being told that.
>How can you claim that she wasn't lying to draw Reimu to her side?
What.

That was HUMILIATING her. Did you even read it? How the hell can you think that situation was Miko trying to get Reimu's favour when she's just doing some quick banter in response to Reimu aggresively sending everyone out for trying to change Gensokyo's laws? What, you think that them agreeing to come over to her place was also them trying to get her favour?

Also even without SoPM, guess what, there's nearly every single ending she's had showing this, also ZUN saying in PCB's music room that aggressive dialogue is just playful banter which explains these sudden change of tones.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554846
You even forget your own arguments.

>bosses that shouldn't be using harmless spellcards at all like Utsuho and Seija

The only reason bosses use spell cards (storywise) is so they can fight the shrine maiden with all their power without the risk of destroying Gensoukyou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554846
In the situation where a character who "shouldn't" have spellcards that does it is ENTIRELY for gameplay purposes.
Hence fucking th15, it's literally just apart of gameplay, regardless if they're following the rules or not.
I mean fuck, ISC is a game about IGNORING those rules and guess what. It still effectively plays the same way as it was if you followed them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554822
>for no reason
Tokiko is a youkai, in case you didn't know, Reimu's job is to exterminate them, this something that the youkai have agreed to and something that (the strong ones anyway) they like about Reimu, particularly Yukari who is the one encouraging her even when Reimu outright says that she sees no reason to fight Yamame and Satori.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554861
>Attacking random Youkai is perfectly okay, despite the fact that the Youkai was causing no harm and she was just fucking reading a book.

Now you're just arguing against yourself.
Pacifists don't do that, and at the low they do it when they HAVE to.

Also her job is to exterminate troublesome Youkai. Tokiko was not one of them, nor did she get a report from the human village relating to Tokiko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554858
As far as I know, Utsuho tried to destroy de surface, why would she care if her spellcards destroy gensokyo or not?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554858
>The only reason bosses use spell cards (storywise) is so they can fight the shrine maiden with all their power without the risk of destroying Gensoukyou.
First of all, the shrine maiden dying would only remove the barrier, not damage Hell which is a place that even outside humans' souls go to should they be naughty. And Utsuho WANTS the people in the surface to be screwed. Byakuren would also be safe in Makai since that's another realm and not Gensokyo.
>>13554859
>In the situation where a character who "shouldn't" have spellcards that does it is ENTIRELY for gameplay purposes.
No, that's just your assumption.
>ISC is a game about IGNORING those rules
Actually the surprise is that the characters aren't breaking the rules since the spellcards aren't impossible even without using the items, you get a special message for finding that out on every spellcard, someone did, sent it to ZUN and he replied with ''Fuhaha''.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554861
Then, why did she attacked Toyosatomimi no Miko? even Miko was surprised that she was going to attack her even though she had no reasons...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554881
>No, that's just your assumption.
So explain the new game?

Also, the same still treats it as you cheating regardless if you beat these spellcards without items.
Having a special achievement doesn't change what happens in the game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554870
>Pacifists don't do that
I thought we already made it clear that Reimu is a pacifist deep down and that she's just doing her job?
>Also her job is to exterminate troublesome Youkai.
Nope, it's youkai she meets, period. Why did you ignore the last part of the post?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554885
Game*

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554886
>It's youkai she meets, period
Then I guess the REST of the manga works go against everything you're claiming.

Once again, it's Youkai who cause incidents/trouble.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554884
>Then, why did she attacked Toyosatomimi no Miko?
Miko wanted to.
>even Miko was surprised
No she wasn't, she read her desires and could even tell what she was about to say, Miko is the one embracing the battle because it was gonna make her a legend.

Also, again, Miko is the one that apologizes, if Reimu had been in the wrong, why would Miko apologize?

[Anonymous No.]

Man, these Touhou manga threads always run into asinine argument, I remember how Marisa is dumb, Sanae is a moeblob, Reimu is disliked by youkai/is liked by youkai.

I guess it's better for Youmu and Reisen to be the mainstay MCs considering they are far more rational beings and people can easily identify with them (soldiers) than teenager girls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554885
>So explain the new game?
Explain what exactly? ZUN is the one that has to do that.
>Also, the same still treats it as you cheating regardless if you beat these spellcards without items.
That doesn't have to do with the fact that the spellcard rules aren't being broken.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554881
Utsuho lived on former hell.

It's a physical place now, not the spiritual place you are thinking about.

It's the reasons why living youkai like oni and yamane are there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554892
>Then I guess the REST of the manga works go against everything you're claiming.
What? Again, Yukari told her to fight youkai that weren't doing anything, Yukari IS the big cheese, are you going to go against her? She's the one making the rules using Reimu as a pawn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554897
>Miko wanted to
Are you serious? Miko didn't wanted, she just responded to the sudden aggressiveness of Reimu...
>Miko is the one embracing the battle
Yes she looked back at her past and even told her that she has a lot of thing to learn from her, yet Reimu was going to "bare her fangs at her for no reason at all".
> Miko is the one that apologizes
Yes, she apologizes because the divine spirits where being a nuisance but even though, after her resurrection the divine spirits where already in the Hall of dream gathered and the incident was over at the moment Miko resurrected.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554921
Once again, you're making shit up because Reimu doesn't do what Yukari tells her. Especially when she has a fucking festival FULL of youkai.
She attacked Tokiko for no justifiable reason.

Her fucking job is to exterminate troublesome youkai as a shrine maiden, Yukari can't force her to do anything, all she can do is nag her to death.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554927
>Are you serious? Miko didn't wanted, she just responded to the sudden aggressiveness of Reimu...
Read the dialogue, she says ''FIGHT ME, MAKE ME A LEGEND''.
> yet Reimu was going to "bare her fangs at her for no reason at all".
Miko's the one behind this incident, also what matters here is that Miko embraces the battle since she says this will make her a legend.
>Yes, she apologizes because the divine spirits where being a nuisance but even though
She apologizes for making Reimu have to solve an incident in the first place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554921
Yukari told her to attack Underground Youkais.
That's because they don't have a pact with the surface world, and they were despicable youkais that need to be teach a lesson. As far as Yukari goes, she doesn't give a shit about the Underground except for the vengeful spirits, which Oni are supposed to take care.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554933
>Once again, you're making shit up because Reimu doesn't do what Yukari tells her.
I'm sorry please retell what happens in stage 1 and 4 of Reimu A in Subterranean Animism.
>Her fucking job is to exterminate troublesome youkai
Nope, just youkai, look at the villagers being angry at her simply because she has youkai at her place despite them not doing anything bad...most of the time.

Are you seriously saying Reimu isn't Yukari's pawn?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554901
marisa is by far the most sociable 2hu with humans and youkai, so I think using her for most of the stuff is natural.
youmu is a dork and reisen is too level headed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554948
>and they were despicable youkais that need to be teach a lesson
They weren't doing anything wrong, just being there, dude, REIMU herself says that she sees absolutely no reason to beat them up and even settles for a tea party with Satori before Yukari goes ''NO REIMU BEAT HER UP'', and Reimu does.

Yukari has more power over Reimu than a tea party.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554956
>1 game ABOUT UNDERGROUND YOUKAI is the same as LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE about above ground youkai.

And no, she's not Yukari's pawn. Especially not willingly.

HER JOB. AS SHE SAYS is to EXTERMINATE TROUBLESOME YOUKAI.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554947
>Read the dialogue, she says ''FIGHT ME, MAKE ME A LEGEND''.
Read the dialogue, she says that AFTER she knew Reimu was going to attack her.
>Miko embraces the battle since she says this will make her a legend
You're so stuck with the "Miko wants to be a legend, so she attacked lel". In first place, she was just responding to Reimu attacking her, and she thought that she didn't believe in her being a Saint, that's why she says that.
>She apologizes for making Reimu have to solve an incident in the first place.
This just prove that Reimu was being a cunt to someone that didn't even wanted to cause an incident.

[Anonymous No.]

Poor confusing english retards. if only you know japanese.
I'll tell you, translations of touhou is really weak. you guys are arguing literally smallest nonsense.
Lack of knowledge of print works and your retardation help too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554968
Yukari said that their powers are despicable, so, for her, the existence of this youkai is a nuisance that's why she told Reimu to beat them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554984
Enlighten us, oh great smarty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554969
>ABOUT UNDERGROUND YOUKAI
What's the difference? They're youkai like the above, minding their own business and being innocent, that's the exact same prejudice that exists for surface youkai.

Also it's not just SA, did you forget that Reimu and Yukari go youkai hunting in IN?
>And no, she's not Yukari's pawn.
Ohohoh, yes she is, as much as she tries to hide it. Why do you think she's gone solve incidents with Yukari twice already, following her orders regarding attacking youkai and even went to the fucking moon because Yukari asked her to?
>AS SHE SAYS is to EXTERMINATE TROUBLESOME YOUKAI.
Yukari says otherwise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554978
>Read the dialogue, she says that AFTER she knew Reimu was going to attack her.
First of all, and? Second, it was more ''bare your fangs'' than attack.
>n first place, she was just responding to Reimu attacking her
Then why isn't she saying anything about it?
>This just prove that Reimu was being a cunt to someone that didn't even wanted to cause an incident.
What? Dude, people apologize when they realize it's their fault. Miko knows it's her fault that this whole thing happened in the first place and that Reimu was in the right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554967
I agree that Marisa is a great point of view character since she doesn't know shit which helps with the exposition.

Youmu and Reisen are far more capable and easily-relatable protagonists (since they are rationale and have normal morals) than her though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13554987
>Yukari said that their powers are despicable
Yeah, those youkai without any potential of messing with humans unlike the surface ones, so despicable. Not that she cares, she went surface youkai hunting with Reimu 3 mainline games ago remember?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555004
>Solving incidents twice
>Reimu solving incidents is so strange!
She's obviously not gonna sit there like a dumb-ass if something strange is going on, she's going to investigate.
She didn't go to the moon because Yukari fucking asked

She went with Remilia because they needed her help. The person being used in that case is Remilia.

Also, please point to me where Yukari changed Reimu's entire job occupation, and no don't tell me she asked for her to attack someone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555017

Marisa is relatable since she's a normal human. Youmu and Reisen are not. Even Reimu is not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555024
>>Reimu solving incidents is so strange!
When did I say that? I only mentioned how she's gone hunting youkai with Yukari twice already, both underground and aboveground.
>She didn't go to the moon because Yukari fucking asked
She told her to train her god summoning powers for it. Asking Reimu to train is like asking ZUN to not drink beer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555024

Are you serious? Reimu is Yukari's pawn and it's absolutely obvious since forever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555015
>it was more ''bare your fangs'' than attack.
Fancy words.
>Then why isn't she saying anything about it?
Miko knew everything about Reimu, even Kananko stated in SoPM that she had an "stubborn fight-first, ask-later attitude". Nothing could be said.
>Miko knows it's her fault that this whole thing happened in the first place
I guess you're right about this. Sorry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555023
>those youkai without any potential of messing with humans unlike the surface ones.
Yamame and Kisume live in caves, and the often go out and kill people
>she went surface youkai hunting with Reimu 3 mainline games
Wriggle, Mysita, Keine and Marisa's battles were because they didn't want to get out of the way, while Yamame was just asking something, and Parsee was asking again why they needed to cross the bridge.
So yeah, no. Yukari attacks only underground youkai indiscriminately

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555038
>Miko knew everything about Reimu,
Then she could have summoned the power of the tea party, something that instantly stops Reimu in her tracks, spouted by another mind reader (well Miko is more of a desire reader and all but yeah you know I'm just trying to segue like a cool guy), Satori.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555058
Hell, Yamame was even inviting them to a party!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555000
No. If you read all of print works, you can't make all those shitty original theory.

>>13555024
look at this faggot. He somehow forgot yukari trained reimu to summon gods. reimu is always yukari's pawn and even herself knows it. read CoLA again. Rinnosuke said that too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555075
>Yukari trained Reimu to summon gods
You seem to forget that wasn't why she went to the moon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555058
>Yamame and Kisume live in caves, and the often go out and kill people
When?
>Wriggle, Mysita, Keine and Marisa's battles were because they didn't want to get out of the way
Mystia is pushing it. Keine and Marisa could have been avoided with diplomacy rather than violence too.

Also, Mokou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555082
I think making Reimu train is a bigger challenge than convincing her to go to the moon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555085
>When?
Sorry, Yamame doesn't do that, she's a pacifist, but Kisume has her own SoPM article about how people found skeletons in a dwell I think.
>Keine and Marisa could have been avoided with diplomacy rather than violence too.
Keine didn't want them to pass, and Reimu was afraid that she did something to the village (She erased it form history remember?).
In Marisa's case, she was the one that started attacking them, they did tried to reason with her (eyes in the back of your head, remember?)
>Mokou
same story, she attacked them when she heard that they where send there under Kaguya's "trick".

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555082
what do you even mean? she trained reimu to go moon with vampire as first decoy. you don't understand what the fuck happened in bougetsuhou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555028
Youmu and Reisen are far more relatable than Marisa simply because they don't steal shit all the fucking times.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555134
Dude Yamame is no pacifist she was barred from joining the temple because she wanted to eat the humans that came there

[Anonymous No.]

>>13555171
So she was a despicable underground youkai after all...