/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

>/jp/

[Anonymous No.]

I am an asian military otaku and I support the re-arm of Japan.

We need a strong dick to swing at China, and Japan is basically that.

[Anonymous No.]

yappari sissy howaito boys ha saiko dana

[Anonymous No.]

When wars happen, will Japan accept foreign volunteers?

The Weeb Legion can be a thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>urasei baka
no smug face 2hu to reply with

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230634

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhQ6JsWHz28

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230644
I'm not watching this!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230603
>there are people outside of Japan who think like this

[Anonymous No.]

Trendy white kid pop orientalist pseudo-religious hipsters are so grating. I doubt that dumb cunt knows anything about Shinto.

Also, Shinto is an ethnic religion. Westerners sometimes have a hard time grasping this concept but with some religious traditions there is a strong tie between heritage and spirituality. A foreigner cannot be a Shintoist because to be a Shintoist you fucking have to be Japanese.

What he's doing is cultural appropriation, which is very patronizing and racist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230603

Is this about that Kancolle thing where War ships are pictured as cute Anime girls?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230660

It is fun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230679
Yeah, it's like Kancolle, except real life.

[Anonymous No.]

shinto is for dorks

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230670
Nice image, I hope this artist does more.

[Anonymous No.]

>people still say that Japan is a demilitarized country

They already had one of the largest and most well funded navies in the world. Now they've got a flagship carrier.

When is the government just going to say "fuck it" and amend article whatever of the constitution which says Japan can't declare war.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230690
It doesn't look appealing to me, gomen...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230718
it's not a carrier anon, it's a heli carrier...

the japs dindu nuffin

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230730
they already had heli carriers

what's the weeb in the OP so excited about then

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230603
What am I looking at.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230736
they just finish building the biggest one (that is still floating) yet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230738
Izumo, the gate of the underword-su!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBR_Klu8moE

[Anonymous No.]

i'm going to go to yomi and marry izanami

no one can stop me

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230774
Gentlemen don't cuck!!!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230715
I agree

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230670
It's all a nationalistic bullshit illusion that some enforce to be special snowflakes. The reality is it doesn't matter what your ethnicity is. You can be of whatever faith you want.

[Anonymous No.]

KILL WHITEY!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230842
>You can be of whatever faith you want.

Uh, no. Not in the case of ethnic religions.

Westerners get that idea because with Christianity and Islam there's the "all are welcome" attitude but that's not the case with some religious traditions because, as I said, in those instances there is a strong connection between spirituality and heritage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230864
I read what you said the first time.

My point is if someone feels a connection with a specific faith, they can follow it's teachings and so on on their own. Who is anyone to say otherwise?

Further, it sounds like you're talking about some old purist Shinto. Disgusting.

[Anonymous No.]

Please get back to the topic of japanese battleships and not religion, please...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230736
>>13230730
/k/ here.
It's a helicopter carrier that could be used for the F-35B, (if they resurface the deck for it) which would give japan enough force projection to harass china.

Of course, this would require buying F-35B's in addition to their F-35A's...

[Anonymous No.]

AWOOOOOOOOOOO

[Anonymous No.]

We should just give them the specs on the Nimitz class and let them build a couple of those.
Constitution says no aircraft carriers because they're offensive force projection weapons, but they can just call it a helicopter destroyer like they do with the Izumo.

The Nips are really fucking good at killing Chinks, and that's a skill that might come in handy one day.

[Anonymous No.]

Japan's navy is part of the US pacific fleet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230876
>Who is anyone to say otherwise?

The religious authorities of that tradition.

Like the modern-day Pueblo shamans who won't let white people attend their religious ceremonies because they're not Pueblo. It doesn't matter if they feel a "connection" to the Pueblo's animistic tradition, white people are not Pueblo and they can't partake in Pueblo ceremonies.

>>13230899
I'm a religion Otaku. I'm arguing about Buddhism and Hinduism on /lit/ right now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230912
>give them the specs of the Nimitz class

This will never happen.
Ever.

[Anonymous No.]

Urasei Baka!!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230920
..then maybe you can make another thread since this thread is a senkan ship, "kudasai".

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230928
Shouldn't it be "urusai"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230922
I know, we won't even share shit about the A-10.
I just want to see Japan with a dick so big that they need to blow China's asshole the fuck out forever to make it fit.

[Anonymous No.]

The Weeb Foreign legion.

Kinda like ukies volunteers, except a bit more fat and wealthy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230936
This thread isn't even /jp/ related. It's not even about the damn ship, which would make it /jp/ related. It's about a stupid weeaboo and meido is going to swipe this discussion away from us when he's done warming up his hot pockets.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230920
I specifically said "on their own."
Of course there'll be issues if one tries to go through with ceremonies in the native country because there are narrow minded fools like yourself.
Religion, faith and spirituality is not all about tradition and ceremonies. If anything, things like that get in the way of it's true purpose.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230956
The main topic that guy was talking about is the ship though...

And meido is dead, it's janjan now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230912
I don't like the PRC, but going to war with a nuclear power is a dumb idea.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230964
Not if they attack first.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230958
>Religion, faith and spirituality is not all about tradition and ceremonies.

Depending on the faith ceremony may be an absolutely critical aspect. Have fun pretending to be Catholic if you can't partake in the sacraments, for instance.

It's the same deal with the Pueblo. You can't practice Pueblo animism on your own. Religion is often as much about the community as it is the individual.

[Anonymous No.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVO22dN1dxs

>>13230963
>And meido is dead
meido will live forever on in my heart

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230985
This is too edge for me...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230984
>Have fun pretending to be Catholic
Pretending to be Catholic is 99% of modern-day Catholicism.

[Choujuu Gigaku Records No.]

>>13230992
Look forward to their upcoming split 7-inch with Kyouko and Mystia!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230696
she's cute, would fug

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230964
Nobody wants war, but you need to be ready in case of its happening. Hell probably the only thing that's stopping China from running wild and fucking shit up in Taiwan is the US Navy who keeps getting in the way and pretending like they don't know what they're doing.
Even discounting China, America wants force projection against Russia as well, and the Nips are also fairly decent at killing Slavs.

/pol/ here, I lied, WW3 is blueballing me so fucking bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230994
Well, that's the case with almost all religions. Performing one's religious duties is almost always too hard, but religious sentiments make a great fashion accessory to adorn one's character with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230696
Such wide bow and hip...

[Anonymous No.]

I want a type 64!!!!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230718
>When is the government just going to say "fuck it" and amend article whatever of the constitution which says Japan can't declare war.
When they say "Fuck you" to the United States, the treaty the United States and Japan signed about how far Japan can defend itself, and put the U.S on the revenge list of countries to attack. You get the point which is never.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231044
Actually, America's been trying to get Japan to change that article for years now but they won't do it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231020
Most of China's exports go to Japanese allies. The politburo would have to be pants-on-head retarded to fuck that up with outright aggression.

That's not to say that they'll keep testing the boundaries of what the world will tolerate, especially with the senkaku islands.

Also, please do not misuse surprise boxes, get the hell back to /pol/ you filthy crossie, etc., etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231076
>pants-on-head retarded

I think you're the one who needs to get out.

Kuso thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231103
What the hell? I'll fuggin fight you nancy boy

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231076
>surprise boxes

I lol'd.

Is this a dank new meme?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231115
It's ancient /jp/'s heritage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231115
oh my god

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231119
Dude I've been here as long as /jp/ has and for all this board's bitching about the proper use of spoilers I don't remember seeing the phrase "surprise boxes" before.

So it must be a dank new meme. Someone share it with /s4s/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231128
It's pretty new compared to the true old epic memes yeah

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231128
You can check it in the archive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231128
Okay, dude.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231172
This was /jp/'s Black History...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231172
That's not ancient

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231172
>2012
>ancient

Wow you must be a real oldfag to remember something that ancient.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231180
>>13231199
I'm not the guy who said it was ancient. It's not new, though, and it's hardly rare.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231180
>>13231199
Pls don't bully, it's not ancient but it's still pretty old

[Anonymous No.]

What are the most ancient of /jp/'s epin memes?

I saved this picture when /jp/ was only a year old, that's pretty ancient.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231210
I wasn't there so I don't know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231210
a-are you an oldfag?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231222
Well I was there and I feel more important than you because of it. Ha ha!

[Anonymous No.]

I'm 31 years old. I'm fucking ancient, you god freakin' kids.

Take a seat and let me school you up the ass, Nipon style.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231226
I respect you as a senior /jp/sie, dude.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231228
Someone redirect this wbro back to his teencave

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231228
I'm 26. I'm Christmas cake even if you're a wizard so you're hardly my senior, gramps.

[Anonymous No.]

For what exactly does Japan need a proactive military force?

I mean, in East Asia, any move against the Chinese would be disastrous for Japan in the long run, and Taiwan & Co. will switch their alliances and autonomy in a diplomatic fashion, as was set by Hong Kong.

I see it as nothing but US-style dick waving by Abe to gain popular support in a depressed society, which will hurt the Japanese relation with its neighbors in the future.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231264
>For what exactly does Japan need a proactive military force?

Like the Germans the Japanese are an inherently militaristic people. The fiery spirit of a samurai stirs in the heart and mind of every Nihonjin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231264
>For what exactly does Japan need a proactive military force?
Against China you fucks.

I like how you have no problem with chinese moving against Japan but is okay with Japan being China's bitch.

Well, Japan is US's bitch, motherfucker. Commies should stay puff or get nuked.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231302
>are okay with*
Gomen nee, my temper got the better of me.

[Anonymous No.]

80's Japan was best Japan
Imperialistic Japan not so much

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230670
>What he's doing is cultural appropriation, which is very patronizing and racist.
You were doing well up till her but then you went all 'muh appropriation'. Of all societies, Japan has the least ground to stand on when it comes to cultural appropriation.

And anyway, cultural appropriation isn't a bad thing in the first place. Yes, the guy in the OP is a cringe-inducing weeb idiot, but that's because he's a sperg, not because of appropriation. And how the fuck is it racist when you're effectively emulating another culture?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231402
>And how the fuck is it racist when you're effectively emulating another culture?

Because the emulation is done in a way that's patronizing and being patronizing is offensive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231422
>Because the emulation is done in a way that's patronizing and being patronizing is offensive.
The word you're looking for is embarrassing, not offensive. The only reason it would be offensive is if you have an inferiority complex about it. For example, imagine a foreigner appropriating Western culture in a similar manner (the hypothetical westaboo Ken-sama, for example). Nobody would be offended because Westerners don't have any reason to hold an inferiority complex. Neither do the Japanese, for that matter, considering their history as one of the few (only?) non-Western imperial powers. Ultimately though inferiority complexes aren't rational, and don't by themselves make cultural appropriation offensive, let alone racist. You have to engage in double think to approve of multiculturalism/diversity, yet deem cultural appropriation racist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231338
Haha, Japan is getting their strong arm again.

Bye bye to pacifistic hipster Japan, we stoic now!!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231472
>considering their history as one of the few (only?) non-Western imperial powers.

you mean in the modern era? the Ottoman Empire and Russia maintained power until WWI.

what really sets Japan apart is how it successfully responded to the challenge of Western imperialism. they could've had their empire if they simply hadn't attacked Pearl Harbor and provoked a larger country with greater military power and resources.

but again, Japan adapted to defeat and found success in economy and culture.

tl;dr - Japan wins because they can adapt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231525
Militaristic Japan was a rather shitty place to live in.

>>13231527
>tl;dr - Japan wins because they can adapt.
Counterpoint: lost decade

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231529
A commie occupied Japan would be even shittier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231527
>Russia maintained power until WWI

Except for when they were BTFO by the glorious Imperial Navy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231529
>Counterpoint: lost decade

that is true. they've had their share of shortcomings and mistakes, but even the lost decade is more of a stagnation than a collapse.

overall, Japan is a resilient country, and I think they will stick around as a world power.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231539
This conflict is what gives Japan silly idea of attacking the West.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231533
Starving under Tojo is no different than starving under the PRC or Soviet rule.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231549
There's a difference.

Better dead than red, fucking commies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231282
Have you even been to nippon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231539

lol yea, I don't know what went wrong with Russia in that conflict. I hadn't read that before, but I always had the impression that it was russian weakness/incompetence that led to japanese victory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231551
They also had the option of not starving, except they went that route because they were retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231554
I assure you that even those Nancy boys have the capacity to be brutal warriors, if their nation depended on it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231543
Sovereign debt is ballooning under abenomics, the sales tax shot the economy in the knees and the country is facing a labour shortage.

Of course, the natural thing to do is to cut social spending to finance a larger military and draft working-age males from an already sparse labour market.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231557
>but I always had the impression that it was russian weakness/incompetence that led to japanese victory.

Partially but don't discount how effective the Japanese were. They'd fully modernized within a generation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231566
They modernized but making it sound like they were "fully modernized" is a laugh. Many of their industries were still decades behind the West when they decided to fight their war.

But the real problem is that Japanese political society just goes full retard in the 20s.

[Anonymous No.]

Got this coming to my city in a few days.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231562

I'll have to look into this more.

>>13231551

communism has a depressing/stagnating effect on economy and culture. Japan would've been far worse off if the Soviets had taken over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231551
Most people would choose 1500 kcal in a socialist dictatorship over 1000kcal in a capitalist democracy.

Or are you under the delusion that patriotism stands for anything?

>>13231557
Tsarist officers used to play a game called "cuckoo." One was given a loaded gun and would stand in the center of a dark room. The other officers would run around and hide behind the furniture at the periphery, yelling "cuckoo." It was the job of the officer in the middle to shoot in the direction of the "cuckoos."

I could dig up the source if you wanted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231562
>Of course, the natural thing to do is to cut social spending to finance a larger military and draft working-age males from an already sparse labour market.

Good old Abe is thinking just like an American politician.

Before you know it he'll be subverting basic privacy rights on the pretext of national security. All to protect FREEDOM of course.

Soon the Japanese war machine will be spilling the guts of Commies and Muslims.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231579
Russians are all fucking psychopaths.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231579
>Or are you under the delusion that patriotism stands for anything?
"Nations whose nationalism is destroyed are subject to ruin."

Why is the discussion about Imperial Japan versus socialist Japan, again? That's a pretty far cry from the decision that had to be made in the early Showa era.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231579

that's another thing I've never read before, and I've read widely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231577
>communism has a depressing/stagnating effect on economy and culture.
State socialism.

Communism works at the micro level, where small groups of like-minded individuals can work independent of remote bureaucrats or army officers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231591
>Communism works at the micro level
Too bad microsystems have to be embedded in macrosystems.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231591

I agree. communism works fine in small communities or tribes.

but applying it on a national scale simply doesn't work. it seems to go against human nature.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231591
That's my favorite /lit/ maymay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231589
http://www.fact-index.com/r/ru/russian_roulette.html

>>13231584
cyka

>>13231587
Yeah, this thread has kind of drifted. C'est la vie

[Anonymous No.]

I saw a .gif ion /int/ the other day of Russians rescuing a cat from a tree by cutting the tree down with a chainsaw.

It worked but with that approach towards rescue operations it isn't hard to image why Spetnaz missions involving hostages can go so horribly, horribly wrong.

But then the Russian people are fine with that because as a culture they seem to collectively shrug off death pretty easily, or at least compared with the West.

Fucking psycho commies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231595
Fair enough.

>>13231596
Any system is by necessity warped drastically through the compromises necessary to gain acceptance on a nation-state level.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231558
Not starving how?

By eating from commies' hand?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231621
By not greedily expanding and attacking everything to the point where they eventually bit off so much they choked on it.

[Anonymous No.]

/jp/ GOT COMMIE-SYMPATHIZERS

CAN'T TAKE IT EASY AROUND THOSE

PURGE COMMIES

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231620
>Any system is by necessity warped drastically through the compromises necessary to gain acceptance on a nation-state level.

Which of course is why a more heavily idealized system is bound to fail.

We all know Democracy doesn't work like it's supposed to on the macro level but it still manages to function. We don't have people queuing for hours to get toilet paper or fruit anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231624
I don't see how the fuck does that have to do with the current remilitarization of Japan though. Either you self-defend or you get fucked by commies.

And funny how commies stay silent in the Cold war yet their civies still starve either ways.

Whatever you do with communism, you lose.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231620
>Any system is by necessity warped drastically through the compromises necessary to gain acceptance on a nation-state level.

true, but some systems are more effective and less warped on this level than others. there are many examples to show that mixed-market capitalism and democracy simply work better than communism and authoritarian regimes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231619
>why Spetnaz missions involving hostages can go so horribly, horribly wrong.
What happened?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231632
>I don't see how the fuck does that have to do with the current remilitarization of Japan though.
You have to be careful with the militarization of society because they last time they tried the political system went to retard.

>Either you self-defend or you get fucked by commies.
The commies are literally irrelevant these days. Even the Chinese are just running an authoritarian capitalist model.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231636
I'm referring specifically to the theater incident. This should give you an idea of what happened.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231643
>You have to be careful with the militarization of society because they last time they tried the political system went to retard.
Except now they got the guiding hands of the Unites States of America, you wanker.
>The commies are literally irrelevant these days. Even the Chinese are just running an authoritarian capitalist model.
I don't care how they call themselves.
They are red, they have one star, they are still commies and they pose a threat to NATO.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231621
During the depression, exports to the US dried up, cutting off cash crops such as silk.

This meant that Japanese farmers had to rely on staples to survive, such as rice. Cheap rice was always being imported from Taiwan and Korea, so if there was a bountiful harvest in Japan, prices would plummet and farmers would have all this rice and no buyers to trade for other necessities. But if the harvest was poor, farmers would starve as they were unable to buy anything anyway.

In a social democratic country, a central buyer run by the government would prevent spikes or dips in supply from causing too much uncertainty in the market.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231658
>Except now they got the guiding hands of the Unites States of America, you wanker.
Becoming an assertive nation and continuing to suck on America's tit are somewhat at odds.

>>13231648
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-01-07/news/mn-13892_1_soviets

RUSSIA STRONG

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231659
Where do the govt get money to buy the rices?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231667
It's not odd because America needs force multiplier, which is what S. Korean and Japan play the roles.

Every time America goes to war, it doesn't do it alone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231677
>America needs force multiplier
>Every time America goes to war, it doesn't do it alone.

The U.S is playing it smart as always.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231683
America realizes gangbang is best bang.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231683
The US government has an actual policy of becoming militarily involved in a few conflicts each generation, anywhere and for any reason. That way the soldiers and brass are never off their game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231628
No, but we do have many elements of socialism sullying up our capitalist paradise: progressive taxation, subsidies for the poor, unemployment insurance, social security.

...so uh, I forget what we were arguing about...

>>13231625
Sorry, It's too late. The sleeper agents we inserted into 4chan moderation already have your IP address. Expect a van in a few minutes to come pick you up.

>>13231634
Again, it all depends on the specifics faced by the nation-state.

Israel exists in large part due to the kibbutzim.

>>13231643
>>13231658
Hey now, we're not on /pol/. We're all little girls here, so play nice please.

But pay attention to the post you quoted. They're "authoritarian capitalist." It means they have markets. Markets that can have their shit fucked if all-out war breaks out between China and Japan. Markets that the PRC obsess over because if the economy tanks they're going to have a lot of angry unemployed workers sitting around and thinking about how shitty their government is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231700
I'm a proud /jp/sie but also a proud supported of NATO/BLUFOR and its eternal war against communism.

It is not /pol/, it is a belief.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231700
im really fucking sensitive to gore but this picture is really cute

i feel sick

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231667
>>13231648
My god. Russia's finest right here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231700
>No, but we do have many elements of socialism sullying up our capitalist paradise

Hey man you're starting to sound like a libertarian now.

If you're a libertarian then I don't like you any more.

Or are you being tongue-in-cheek?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231672
Bond markets, usually.

>>13231677
So how do they beef up Japan while keeping them on a short enough leash? If they get too strong they might get ideas that they can go it alone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231698
More like they want something to do with their ridiculously huge army.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231714
By maintaining the relationship between the US Navy and the Imperial Na...I mean JMSDF and make their economy dependent on the West.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231713
What's wrong with being a libertarian, socialist scum?

Also, Reimu is a libertarian.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231713
Not at all, but hating libertarians just because they're libertarians is irrational. I know many who are nice people. I may disagree with them on many issues, but I'm not about to disassociate myself from them because of that fact.

If you're thinking about objectivists however, that's a whole different story. Randroids are mind-numbing to be around.

>>13231704
Uh, okay

>>13231705
This thread has long since gone off the rails so I might as well post pics of cute girls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231739
>Also, Reimu is a libertarian.

is fucking not

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231739
Reimu is the enforcer of a fascist system.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231768
You might think I'm a rambling wackjob, anon, but the commie threats are real, especially from Russia and China.

I'd still buy their guns tho.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231527
>you mean in the modern era? the Ottoman Empire and Russia maintained power until WWI.
Ottoman Empire was the so-called 'sick man of Europe' for a good while before WWI, so I had discounted them. As for Russia, while they have a unique culture I was considering them a Western power due to their historical and cultural ties to the West and the fact that most of their population lives in Europe. From Japan's standpoint, at least, I would imagine they viewed Russia as more of a Western power than an independent civilization and culture like India.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231770
>>13231771
>Are you stupid? Who's going to protect those laws? Whoever makes them, they'll just write them in a way that benefits themselves, and if they break them, they'll just ignore them and go unpunished.
Seems pretty damn near libertarian to me, even getting close to anarchism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231733
Well, that's basically the status quo. My main concern would be managing the many many flash points that exist in east and southeast asia.

If both Japan and China are armed to the teeth, and Japan thinks that it can go it alone and win, a small clash in the senkakus could escalate quickly. A small possibility, mind you, but given Abe's current rhetoric and his political base it's getting hard to see what is bombast for the voters and what are genuine policy statements.

>>13231739
>Also, Reimu is a libertarian
We've been down this road, ideology doesn't exist in Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231777

all this makes sense. Russia is definitely more western than eastern in culture/civilization. that said, I see them as distinct from the West.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231771
Fascist 2hus are the sexiest.

>>13231786
>ideology doesn't exist in Gensokyo.

That's funny because they seem to spend an awful lot of time splitting hairs about religion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231771
She's a theocrat, not a fascist, or a libertarian, or whatever. She's enforcing an entirely religious system, not a political one.

>>13231781
What you're quoting is just plain old cronyism

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231802
>That's funny because they seem to spend an awful lot of time splitting hairs about religion.
Ideology doesn't delve into the spiritual.

I also really wish the nazis and soviets didn't ruin totalitarian chic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231807
>What you're quoting is just plain old cronyism
It's not?

Libertarians and anarchists oppose regulations because they feel who enforce the laws control them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231807
She doesn't enforce a religious system tho.

She doesn't force everyone to pray at her shrine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231826
>Ideology doesn't delve into the spiritual.

But it certainly does. That's a matter of semantics however.

More importantly, why is Fascism so sexy?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231855
Enforcing her religious beliefs doesn't equate to forcing people to practice her religion.

She will make sure that the status quo is maintained on behalf of the gods she serves however.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231845
Oh, I guess I misunderstood.

Libertarians would oppose laws up until the point where they believe them to be necessary for the protection of life, liberty etc etc

>>13231855
The whole arrangement with the youkai (you don't fuck with the villagers and I'll only make-believe kill you) exists to preserve the status quo in Gensokyo. It's rooted in Shinto belief. That's the system I was referring to.

>>13231873
>But it certainly does. That's a matter of semantics however.
Well, most political ideology tends to stay away from the spiritual claims of religious texts. But yeah whatever.

It's just the uniforms.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231873
>More importantly, why is Fascism so sexy?

they knew how to dress.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231893
It's a pretty non-point, every politics delve into preserving the status quo that benefit them.

Even an unlawful anarchist would fight for the status quo if said status quo is ever-changing chaos.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231914
>Well, most political ideology tends to stay away from the spiritual claims of religious texts. But yeah whatever.
On second thought no, I'm wrong on this point. I'm forgetting about a whole range of social conservatives and marxist atheists.

Fuck it's late.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231914
And so would Reimu, considering she opposes other laws but the most basic ala spellcard rules.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231918
>every politics delve into preserving the status quo that benefit them.
...or altering/destroying a status quo that they do not benefit from/are harmed by.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231940
Yeah, and Reimu benefits from the current system so she preserves it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231918
This is a religious status quo however.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231947
It's not even religious because people are free to worship whatever they want from Shinto to Taoism, unless they turn into youkai, that is.

Basically, Reimu fights to keep Gensokyo as it is and dislikes any new laws, pretty conservative libertarian if you ask me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231918
>Even an unlawful anarchist would fight for the status quo if said status quo is ever-changing chaos.
Ever read The Last of the Masters? You'd like it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231939
Gensokyo is a feudal japanese reservation, there's barely any property rights to protect as it is.

Given the fact that Reimu beats up Tokiko and steals her books, it would seem that she kind of fails the whole "respect private property" rule libertarians cherish anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231932
And what's up with Marxist mandatory atheism anyway. Marx didn't actually reject religion in and of itself. Just religion in its current state on account of its culpability with the Capitalist system.

Whatever arouse from a Communist system, including religion, would be perfect.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231958
Never heard of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231956
>Basically, Reimu fights to keep Gensokyo as it is

In accordance with the will of the gods and for no other reason. That's her job as a Miko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231964
There are basic property rights, since people just don't waggle in and steal Rinnosuke's shit.

[Anonymous No.]

feel when two of the thread you had bookmarked fell off the board

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231969
I don't think Reimu has been contacted by the Hakurei god recently.

She just does what she thinks is best for Gensokyo, and the current Gensokyo is best for her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231975
Her shrine doesn't have just one god does it? There's a whole host of them.

And she probably isn't usually listening to what the gods want to tell her, what with being little better than a NEET.

[Anonymous No.]

You could've at least blacked out the names.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231956
They aren't really free to worship as much as Reimu can't be arsed to evict the religionhus.

Though she does hassle them at the urging of the villagers at the end of SoPM.

>>13231966
Agreed. He could have just copy-pasted Mexican/Turkish anti-clerical secularism onto the Manifesto and that would have worked fine.

>>13231972
I'm pretty sure Reimu and Marisa shoplifted from Kourindou at one point.

>>13231975
A lot of it is "fuck, I gotta go clean this shit up because if I don't all the villagers will be pissed." Kasen presses Reimu into taking care of the poisonous gases near the nuclear-heated hot spring by saying that she'll be negligent in her duties if she ignores the problem (which she wants to do)

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231993
>I'm pretty sure Reimu and Marisa shoplifted from Kourindou at one point
Also, Marisa steals/borrows books from Patchouli with near-impunity, the only thing stopping her being Patchy taking matters into her own hands in the of the OSP issues.
In a libertarian society, the government would be tasked with bringing thieving Marisa to justice. Instead it's tea 4 everyone because Reimu could not give less of a shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231987
In the OP? Then it would be harder for people to inundate that weeblord with hate messages.

[Anonymous No.]

Discussion in this thread has been quite varied. We've moved from heli-carriers and weeaboos to religion, cultural appropriation, East Asian politics, economics, libertarianism, and Marxism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232021
Cultural appropriation and Marxism are bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232021
welcome to late night jaypee

I'm surprised though that the thread went so long without getting hijacked by /pol/posting about feminists or subhumans. We even posted all these fascist Touhou pictures.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232009
In a libertarian society, we would have a minimal police force, most of the conflicts would be solved by private parties.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232034
A libertarian society values the protection of private property. The size of the police force would be dependent on how many LEOs are needed to combat crime effectively. The level and severity of crime is, in turn, affected by a range of factors, some of which would be allieviated by a libertarian society and some of which would be aggravated.

I believe you're thinking of voluntarism, which is a lot closer to anarchism.

Also, I've run out of fascist Rumias. Oh no.

[Anonymous No.]

Why are Constitutional Federal Republics the best form of governments? And why doesn't Gensokyo have one with all those savage humans running around living off the same scraps for generations?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232052
I don't know what libertarians you are talking too, but most of circles dislike strong police presence and prefer settling things on private-level without letting any governmental forces getting into it, which is why we favor having guns and private contractors.

The government control only ends at protecting the laws as it's basic level, and said basic level is still hotly debated.

In fact, it's closer to Reimu is doing, basically she ignores things if she can help it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232068
>Constitutional Federal Republics the best form of governments
I'm not going to write your term paper on the Federalist Papers, go to bed anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232077
Yes, but that's not Libertarianism. Most libertarian thinkers except fringe lunatics like Rothbard made concessions for the necessity of a police force and a court system to uphold property rights.

After all, what happens when two of the people you're talking about have a dispute over a contract and one decides to abrogate his responsibilities? He could send it to binding arbitration, but what if the results are still ignored? The only ways to enforce the contract would be through the courts and the cops, or by taking things into his own hands and risking a shootout.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232097
Who pay for the police and the court?

Oh that's right, taxes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232097
The point I'm making here, of course, is that a libertarian system that seeks to minimize or exclude the state from enforcing property rights and other just laws isn't really a libertarian system. It's close, but it's drifting toward voluntarist anarcho-capitalism at that point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232101
Ideally, the courts and police would be paid for with fines and other levies extracted from losing parties and the convicted.

However even the most starry-eyed Austrian economist avoided trying to explain how that shitshow would work effectively.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232113
Which is why the police should be turned into bodyguards, and courts lawyers.

Basically there would be no laws, but if anyone start shit they would risk a full blown war between armed individuals.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231402
>Japan has the least ground to stand on when it comes to cultural appropriation
B-baka, it's not like it's a mix of ancient Chinese culture and modern American consumerism or anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232116
I could see this devolving into gang warfare of a Mexican intensity very quickly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232138
People would be quick to form alliances, basically becoming NATO vs Warsaw Pact, except every citizen is a soldier and a country in itself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231578
Some on the right actually seem really keen to get involved with ME wars. I guess they haven't had enough terrorist attacks and want to keep up with the West or something. Retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232148
To get valuable military experiences and America's favor, what else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231578
Abe has already done that.
I think he passed some national security act to silence medias some time ago

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231628


the degree to which democracies function is generally the degree to which they are not democratic.

the actual processes of governance in western states are carried out by sovereign bureaucracies which are quite removed from the effects of any election.

point in fact, in America, the chief executive in most cases does not actually have that ultimate executive function: the ability to fire people.

how so? well to frame the issue, another way of referring to the ability to fire and hire people is the 'spoils system', which, after andy jacksons tenure, congress voted to eliminate.

and in truth, it was well enough that they did so. why? because there are a lot of perverse incentives involved with investing power in the hands of a transient official whos transient success depends on manufacturing consent. high time preference and ideological myopia are the order of the day; the constant shuffling of personnel due merely to reductionist partisanship was causing chaos. and so, to avoid catastrophe, real power had to be occulted from democratic influence, even though it all seemed superficially the same.

is the system insane? absolutely, but the insane backbending and loop-arounds to accomplish rulership are, in each individual instance, mostly rational responses to conditions. and that condition is; demotism is a nigh religious article of faith, which affords social validation for proponents, and a means of devalidating opponents. the system is insane because it must work around an insane idol.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232222
Nice gibberish.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232235
Stunning intellectual repartee.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230603
I AM SHINTO.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231579
>Most people would choose 1500 kcal in a socialist dictatorship over 1000kcal in a capitalist democracy.
That's implying the socialist can even sell 1500kcal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232222
I don't think there's an inverse relationship between democracy and state effectiveness. democratic nations have usually been far more successful than totalitarian nations by any measure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232452


Theres severeal reasons for that, chief of which being that western democracies are not platonic forms of democracies to begin with, which was the main point. And concomittant with this is the fact that advances in instrumental techne in various fields can mask the effects or consequences of deleterious social organism by raising carrying capacities.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231557
The Imperial Russian Military was certainly racked by incompetence not helped by a split command in the far east and the death of it's best admiral.
But the Japanese army was reaching the end of its tether on the mainland while the Russians were receiving massive reinforcement from Europe via the Trans Siberian Railway.
If the Second Pacific Squadron had been able to avoid battle with Togo and make it to Vladivostok the war on land might have been prolonged and the Russians might have seen a turn around based upon their numbers. Despite the fact they had been defeated multiple times, it was never a crushing one.
Ironically I think the victory at Tsushima (>>13231539
), as total as it was, so implanted itself in the minds of the Imperial Navy that they remained forever obsessed with the idea of 'decisive victory' to point where it seriously affected them in the Pacific War.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232588
>>13231557
http://pastebin.com/bjZxapL3

Read this if you're bored. Covers a lot of what the image in >>13231539 says but still a good read.

[Anonymous No.]

So, this thread has turned from the discussion of a boat to politics and communism/facism discussion into touhou politics into touhou religion and now back to politics/ideals/who even knows.

Since when did /jp/ have wheels

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232612
A great read, and well recounted apart from the fact that the Avrora was holed above the waterline, not below it. Their voyage is such a ludicrous story.
Some other good reads on it are 'The Tsar's Last Armada' and 'The Fleet that had to Die.'

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230603
Not /jp/.
Kancolle.

That thing turns everything it touches into shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232645
I thought a month would be enough to appoint a new janitor for /jp/. It looks like I was wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231557
>>13232588
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Pervozvanny-class_battleship

This illustrates very well the sheer incompetence of most of the Russian State at the period.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232703
That's why Japan fucked them up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232678
Fuck off redditfag.

[Anonymous No.]

When will the korean zanichi pigs fuck off with their propaganda wing NHK?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232733
When will your parents take away your Internet, Sean?

[Anonymous No.]

The remilitarization of Japan is a good thing.

I hope one day to see a nationalist Japan, as well as a nationalist Europe.

Nationalism is the means to the rejuvenation of a degenerate nation. Without a binding force like religion or nationality populations will inevitably be divided into isolated and specific groups all hostile to one another. Social relations are destroyed. Meaning itself is lost, truth questioned. It's a decline marked by bickering and irrelevancy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232780
Remilitarization is a waste of ressources.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232780
>Meaning itself is lost
Meaning of what?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232705
Japan at least knows how to get shit done, the only reason they lost to the US was because the US had far greater military might, tactics, and technology at the time, atop a group of people so gung ho on conquest; their blind ambition was one of the biggest factors for their defeat.

Some say the US deliberately let them attack to get them drawn into the 2nd World War. We know that the US was able to decode a message stating the Pearl Harbor attack. But it's rather iffy on the details if they knew the date of attack or not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232814
"Meaning itself is lost" in the context posted Means the destruction of the nation itself and the heritage of the people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232825
Okay, so you're saying that the loss of meaning behind a nation and people leads to its and there destruction?

[Anonymous No.]

/pol/ pls go and stay go

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232113
That already happens in America with the war on drugs and seizure of property and government auctions. Most of the military equipment we see on officers they buy with their own funds.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232113
Corruption, oh!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232862
This is way too civilized to be /pol/

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230705
Still waiting for someone to reply w/ a pic of Youmu & say "Did someone say dork?"

[Anonymous No.]

>reading news sites about the Izumo
>comments
>"OH NO PEARL HARBOR PART 2"
>Pearl harbor
>with 7 osprey helicopters
>in this day and age
>2 are strictly designated for rescue and relief

Americans never cease to astound me.

[Anonymous No.]

This Izumo bath toy is not even one fifth the size of a US warship.

What a joke. How is this even news?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233080
>tsunami hit Japan
>hundreds die
>Fukushima is compromised, leading to more death and large-scale radioactive contamination
>US goes "lol payback for perl harbor god is on our side xDDDDD"

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233095
It's RT m8

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233173
I remember that image, any one got it

[Anonymous No.]

damnit why did i put this on the W

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232871
Which leads to shenanigans like civil forfeiture. If PDs and the courts AND the military had to fund themselves through means other than taxation we would see this kind of extortion on a massive scale. Cops would essentially become tax collectors.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233279
>implying that isn't already the case

>>13233179
I'm looking for it too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232822
>the only reason they lost to the US was because the US had far greater military might, tactics, and technology at the time

You forgot one of the most important things: Resources.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232822
>Japan at least knows how to get shit done, the only reason they lost to the US was because the US had far greater military might, tactics, and technology at the time, atop a group of people so gung ho on conquest; their blind ambition was one of the biggest factors for their defeat.
So they lost because USA was better than them at everything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232822
>the only reason they lost to the US
Japan had no chance to win the war, ever
They didn't even want to defeat the US, and knew they couldn't, they just wanted to get them out of the picture. An armistice is all they could have ever hoped to accomplish.

But Japan learned a very important lesson
Don't Mess with the US

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233314
Yes.

[Anonymous No.]

Reimu would really benefit from a socialist or regulated market system with her shrine being subsidized instead of her having to beg for donations.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233333
Free Market will fix Gensokyo
It had and always has solved every incident

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233333
Go home Recette.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233333
Giving the state the power to revoke or grant financial benefits to any religious group or institution is a recipe for disaster.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233340
>>13233343
>>13233345
The maintenance of the Hakurei barrier and Youkai extermination is a valuable public service which would be under-appreciated in a free-market.
http://tutor2u.net/economics/revision-notes/a2-micro-public-goods.html

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233355
Then why does someone else always show up to solve incidents if Reimu doesn't appear?

We got hard working Touhous showing up to solve incidents without Lazy Reimu's help. So why should she be compensated for the work of others when a more competent individual rises to the task?
Free Market, yo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233302
>>implying that isn't already the case
I know, I just mean that it would be expanded on a scale never seen before to accommodate the army and the courts along with the police.
I'm $100 parking tickets plus $89 administration fees.

>>13232825
At the end of the day, people aren't being fed and clothed by their heritage.

Explicitly nationalist governments are usually god awful when it comes to crafting sober fiscal policy anyway, given that they usually have to resort to populism to shore up support for the regime.

>>13232585
>>13232222
America functioned well enough as a democracy (well, incredibly democratic relative to the other governments that existed at the time) held up by a nation of yeoman farmers, craftsmen and merchants.

And demotism is worshiped as a secular religion in the West because the alternatives are unholy by comparison.

Also, consider reading Orwell's "Politics and the English Language." Helped me purge my prose of many of the literary tics that you seem to have.

>>13232645
You'd be surprised how many of us graduated from university!

>>13232147
Yeah, that was kind of my point...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233355
Fair point.

>>13233372
>So why should she be compensated for the work of others when a more competent individual rises to the task?
Because the consequences of market failure would be Gensokyo's destruction.

I'm pretty sure Yukari subsidizes Reimu from time to time anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233080
>>13233173
>>13233179
This one?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230603
I was going to say something about that but then I noticed murricans say the same thing too with the same fucking "muh defense" excuse.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233407
Exactly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233407
>assholes of the world.

...I'm still gonna go with Serbians on that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233407
What with Americans being douchebags? I don't remember Germans being obnoxious little shit when 9/11 on the ground that "us bombed and raped everyone in Berlin".

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233545
That was Russia, bro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233553
Americans did it, too. They also raped local French women. Some of them ended up pregnant and were harassed because people thought they slept with nazis.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233545
Probably due to Germans (and the rest of the world in general) actually knowing what war looks like, as opposed to sheltered Americans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233570
Then why are they hating on Japanese instead of hating on Vietcongs? They're the one that got horribly raped here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233558
>b-but americans did it too.
Well yeah, no shit, everyone did.

Russia took it to a level that it really didn't need to go to, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233584
Who are you quoting? I never said that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233582
You can probably find them hating those as well. It's not really mutually exclusive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233592
Is that really how you want to go about this, anon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233407
Fucking Americans.

Seriously.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233606
If you're going to add a stuttering to make me look like a retard, I'll go all out on your ass.
There are things you don't do, even on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233606
please stop posting boring white people thank you

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233611
Right.

>>13233615
Have a black guy!

[Anonymous No.]

Irishs are honestly worst than americans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233683
yeah, but at least that woman got punished at the end

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233730
Ain't that a bit too much? I mean, I don't even know what Candy Crush is, but shooting both her her legs...

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233732
Too little, rather, she could still continue her offense just fine afterwards. I'd rather go after the arms.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233545
That's because they were on their hands and knees sucking our dicks, begging us to protect them from the Russians.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233584
Reminds me of that one doujin where the ship girls start working as prostitutes for the American army after the surrender to keep them from raping civilians.

Never before has ssexual slavery gotten me so hard!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232013
That's the point.

I don't know why you Westerners love bullying people but at least cut this weeblord some slack and let those who know him do the bullying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13234115
Sometimes one must be hung pour les autres in order to educate the masses on proper netiquette.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13234115
Bullying builds character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13234161
Tell that to all the bullycide victims. Bullying didn't build their character. It literally destroyed them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13234224
Like everything, too much bullying kills.

[Anonymous No.]

Hey guise, can someone please post the Suigintou Nazi pic.

I kind of need it.

Pls, guise.

Pls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13234255
Sure dude

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233398


That successfull time being referred too here was also not coincidentally under a context where the franchise was limited to landowning males. We see again a general principle; more limited democracy, more function.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13234431
Please identify the year in which American democracy went to shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13234437


1776

[Anonymous No.]

>>13234437
I've heard someone say: when the people running the country stopped being called statesmen, but became politicians instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13233398
>Yeah, that was kind of my point...
So it would be basically the modern world but everyone is more free?

What's the problem then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13232807
Like ass it is.

Because France and England failed to re-militarize after German attacked them, they lost much more resources than just re-arming themselves in the first place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235411
You do realize that NATO and the Warsaw Pact got into a lot of bloody proxy wars, right?

Do you want that to happen in your neighbourhood?

>>13235415
The USSR collapsed in large part due to overmilitarization.
Much of the US federal debt is due to defence spending.

Japan does have issues concerning national defence, sure, but at what cost will it solve them?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231554
You don't know theyr're nipponese tamashii could cut you no problem with their million time folded samurai blades

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235549
Proxy wars by definition do not happen in your neighborhood, it will happen in someone else's neighborhood, so I wouldn't care nonetheless.

And USSR collapsed because it cannot keep up the West in everything, the federal debt of the US is a joke, it's not like anyone will go over to collect them. What's with NATO being the collective hands that protect laws and order around the globe.

>Japan does have issues concerning national defence, sure, but at what cost will it solve them?
2% GDP, like a NATO member. While Japan is not NATO, they are in no less danger because they are close to China.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13234431
>>13232585

platonic democracy can't work on a scale larger than a city-state (leaving aside that it's considered an unjust regime, only a step above tyranny). for a nation state, you need a republic, with representation.
advances in tech don't completely offset social problems, or flaws in societal structure. the superiority of western democracy is still apparent, especially considering how other types of govt's have fared with similar technology.

>>13234232
not to sound cheesy, but applying yourself and facing challenges builds character. getting abused and shitted on generally makes people worse, not better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235569
Your local neighbourhood civil protection organization isn't going to be as sophisticated as NATO. It's going to be closer to a gang, and what's stopping it from extorting individuals and demanding protection money?

>2% GDP, like a NATO member.
Japan's GDP for 2014 was USD $4.77 trillion, according to the IMF:
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2014/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=75&pr.y=13&sy=2014&ey=2014&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=158&s=NGDPD%2CNGDPDPC%2CPPPGDP%2CPPPPC&grp=0&a=
Two percent of that would be USD $95.4 billion.

Japan's defence budget for 2014 was JPY ¥4.88 trillion. That works out to about USD $48.8 billion at exchange rates for most of 2014.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-12-21/japan-unveils-record-budget-even-as-abe-trims-new-bond-sales

In sum, Japan would have to double it's defence spending to meet this 2% requirement. They're already running a deficit and the economy is still shaky, having just exited a recession.

Which means Abe has to raise taxes (again), cut social spending, or incur (more) debt if he wants to have a NATO-comparable military.

Whether or not having a stronger military is a moot point; rearmament at this stage is POLITICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. It would be mass career suicide for the LDP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235668
>Your local neighbourhood civil protection organization isn't going to be as sophisticated as NATO.
It doesn't need to be, since the enemies we would fight wouldn't be as sophisticated as USSR either.
>It's going to be closer to a gang, and what's stopping it from extorting individuals and demanding protection money?
Guns, lot of guns. If they start shit, my family hit them back, we wouldn't get out alive, but they wouldn't suffer no loss either, the risks would damper their effort.
>Whether or not having a stronger military is a moot point; rearmament at this stage is POLITICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. It would be mass career suicide for the LDP.
Then let a more capable party ruling Japan.

China is flexing its muscle and it's getting bolder in Asia, not re-arming at this stage is just stupid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235694
>Then let a more capable party ruling Japan.
I mean rule Japan*

[Anonymous No.]

>>13231302
Japan is inherently the bitch of China, given that food supplies in Japan, especially rice, cannot be maintained natively.

Also, the US is in no position to blow off China, considering that they are sitting on our debt and a good portion of our money supply.

China also has nukes, btw.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235704
China cannot maintain its food security either.

You can't control someone else when you yourself can't feed your nation.

That's where the US comes in, since they can provide everything China can and more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13234431
>We see again a general principle; more limited democracy, more function.
By this logic, a country with no democracy would function really well.

Which may be true! History shows us that these governments are, on average, just really good at killing, imprisoning and generally shitting on the common people.

Governing wisely tends to be an elusive outcome when the government makes decisions based on the input of a tiny elite. For one, when participation is limited to this

elite, policy-makers are freed from the feedback loop that comes in the form of reaction from the grassroots to policy action/inaction. Unless a problem affects the

interests of the government or those privileged enough to be permitted to have an input on decision-making, it isn't a problem. Toxic waste flowing through a city

slum? Literally not a problem for the government, because it's not like the slum dwellers have the ability to vote out their local state senator or city council or

whatever. Their only option is to abandon their homes or stay and suffer.

Furthermore, the very act of having input, or even simply having the opportunity to have input, has a pacifying effect on the populace. People will be willing to wait

patiently through a particularly bad government, as they realize that A) the government won its legitimacy through free and fair elections, and B) they will have the

opportunity to revoke that legitimacy during the next set of elections. The presence of an elected opposition and organized special interests can give voice to

criticism and create opportunities to lobby the government in between elections. Remove these outlets and you leave people frustrated during periods of dysfunction.

This frustration is a recipe for violence when the government isn't interested in fixing the problem or resigning to allow another government try something different.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235710
I'm not writing all of this to sketch some abstract political theory. I'm making a point here - all of this has ramifications for us /jp/sies.

Having to listen to all voices and giving everyone over a certain age the franchise makes governing incredibly slow and haphazard. That is a point that I happily concede!

Why? I'll illustrate with a hypothetical scenario.

Say your country is a "limited democracy." It's hard to define exactly what that means, but I'm assuming that voting would be restricted to a limited class of individuals, given that >>13234431 was referring to the early post-colonial U.S. This would mean that most people would be subjects, not citizens, as you'd have to be wealthy enough to own enough land to earn the franchise.

This underclass of subjects would still have the freedom to speak, sure. Who is going to listen to them? It's very unlikely that the landed elite would share the interests of those below them. They would have the freedom to move. Given how expensive it is to immigrate to most countries worth immigrating to, however, moving would be out of the question for the underclass. They'd be stuck in your country, with no meaningful input into how the government treats them. As I have pointed out above, this situation creates frustration. It creates the conditions for riots and other political violence - all that is needed is a spark to start the fire.

Now, say that spark happens: a recession creates mass unemployment, a fire in a garment factory kills dozens of workers, a man burns himself alive in protest of rampant corruption, the government loses a war and has to raise taxes to pay reparations to the winner. People are angry. Since we're in the 21st Century, anger spreads like wildfire through social media, with youth organizing flash protests that scare the government. The government and the elite is desperate and is pulling out all the stops to quell the fire before outright an outright civil war erupts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230603
>White person sharing the same name with a brand mayonnaise

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235725
Who ye quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235723
Of course, this isn't 100% hypothetical - autocrats do this ALL THE TIME whenever they think that they're in trouble. You can't access many boorus or other anime fansites in Russia because Putin wants to look good in front of Orthodox Christians. Saddam Hussein added "Allahu Akbar" to the Iraqi Flag to appease his country's then-growing Islamist movement, among other things. Singapore routinely hangs drug smugglers, regardless of whether they committed violent crimes or not.

I can hear the retort "But anon, democracies trample on others all the time to appease the unwashed masses!"

Of course they do. Do they do it efficiently? Absolutely not, and that's why we're here, posting on /jp/ and not being questioned by the police because they found a thumbnail of delicious Flan belly in your cache.

Governments that permit ample amounts of democracy tend to have a harder time getting things done than governments that have more freedom to do what they think is best without any accountability. Sometimes this is exactly what we want: for the government to be constrained in how quickly it can function.

This is something that political thinkers have recognized since ancient times. The Roman Senate was headed by two consuls; a bill could be approved into law only if both consuls voted yes. The U.S. constitution is designed specifically to encourage gridlock, as gridlock is preferable to letting a small number of autocrats do as they please. A healthy democracy forces proposed laws to receive widespread support, accomplished through debate and campaigning, before they can be approved. This gives people with unpopular opinions the chance to manoeuvre and attempt to win enough voters over to their side before the axe comes down on them. It provides opportunities to stonewall and drag your heels on laws that the majority wants but will fuck over a minority.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235710
>>13235723
>>13235734
I'm not reading all this shit, little Rumia.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235734
To put things into words more suited for us /jp/sies, a healthy democracy may shoot danmaku like a stage 1 midboss, but that's what we want, because it allows us to graze and slip through the gaps easy. A limited democracy would be more like Impossible Spell Card, except we wouldn't have Seija's bag of tricks to hack ourselves a government that doesn't want to ban pornography or shut down torrent sites.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235751
Now that's more like it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235723
>As I have pointed out above, this situation creates frustration.

it would create oligarchy, which runs against democratic and mixed-market capitalist ideals.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235694
>It doesn't need to be, since the enemies we would fight wouldn't be as sophisticated as USSR either.
What? That's even worse. Or do you expect the hicks across the river to think rationally after they've gotten a case of Blue Nun into them?

>Guns, lot of guns. If they start shit, my family hit them back, we wouldn't get out alive, but they wouldn't suffer no loss either, the risks would damper their effort.
Blood feuds are inherently destructive. I know people who served in Afghanistan - they go on for ages. Lots of guns and no central authority to mediate disputes and bring transgressors of the law to justice is a recipe for disaster.

>Then let a more capable party ruling Japan.
I don't think you get the meaning of "politically impossible." I mean, it's literally impossible for any party to double defence spending, because given the current fiscal and economic state the country is in, the costs inherent in such a budgetary shift would make any party a pariah.

>China is flexing its muscle and it's getting bolder in Asia, not re-arming at this stage is just stupid.
Then maybe we shouldn't have spent all of our money chasing phantom WMDs in the middle east.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235759
Well yeah, that was my point.

I'm assuming that >>13234431 was insinuating that an oligopoly would be more desirable than what we have now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235793
I mean oligarchy, not oligopoly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235779
>What? That's even worse. Or do you expect the hicks across the river to think rationally after they've gotten a case of Blue Nun into them?
I don't fear no drunken hicks, no matter how strong they are, I fear organized, well-fed, well-trained battalions that come from the government.
>Blood feuds are inherently destructive. I know people who served in Afghanistan - they go on for ages.
This is not much blood feud but self-defense, they start shit, they get hit.
>Lots of guns and no central authority to mediate disputes and bring transgressors of the law to justice is a recipe for disaster.
To be fair, I'd welcome the central authority if they do decide to come and fix shit, but if they come and take my guns, then fuck off.
>I don't think you get the meaning of "politically impossible." I mean, it's literally impossible for any party to double defence spending, because given the current fiscal and economic state the country is in, the costs inherent in such a budgetary shift would make any party a pariah.
Then clearly, any party that can get the closest to said spending is the winner. If the LDP can do that, more glory to them.
>Then maybe we shouldn't have spent all of our money chasing phantom WMDs in the middle east.
Nigga what? What does this have to do with Japan? And the USA spent 3.8% of its GDP on defense spending, and it can kick the crap outta China if China starts shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235800
>I don't fear no drunken hicks, no matter how strong they are,
Fine, let's rephrase this: do you fear the criminal gangs in your city?
>I fear organized, well-fed, well-trained battalions that come from the government.
Why?

>This is not much blood feud but self-defense, they start shit, they get hit.
see >>13235779
>I know people who served in Afghanistan - they go on for ages.

>Then clearly, any party that can get the closest to said spending is the winner. If the LDP can do that, more glory to them.
And what do you propose the LDP DO to raise the money for more armaments?

>To be fair, I'd welcome the central authority if they do decide to come and fix shit, but if they come and take my guns, then fuck off.
What do you think you're going to do if you come home from work and find out that your apartment was broken into and property of yours was stolen?

>Nigga what? What does this have to do with Japan? And the USA spent 3.8% of its GDP on defense spending, and it can kick the crap outta China if China starts shit.
One of the reasons why Japan is rearming is because the US is starting to scale down defence spending - because of its massive debt.

Iraq cost $3 trillion. In fact, it's still costing us, because Saddam wouldn't have put up with this ISIS shit at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235821
Sorry, Iraq only cost us $1.7 trillion up front, plus several hundred more billion in benefits for war veterans.

Those benefits plus interest on the debt will wind up costing the public purse $6 trillion, in case anyone's counting.

That's money we could be spending building capacity in Asia to counter a resurgent China which relies almost entirely on exports to the US for its financial health. Which will totally attack us anyway because, hey, why not.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/us-iraq-war-anniversary-idUSBRE92D0PG20130314

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235821
>Fine, let's rephrase this: do you fear the criminal gangs in your city?
Yes, I do but that's because I don't have guns.
>Why?
Because they have better weapons and better-trained, also have air and armor support, wait more than any hicks can afford?
>And what do you propose the LDP DO to raise the money for more armaments?
As bad as it is, cut the useless social spending and raise tax, destroy weapon export/import laws to facilitate international arm industry movement in Japan, it's anti-libertarian but it's necessary at the moment to contest with China.
>One of the reasons why Japan is rearming is because the US is starting to scale down defence spending - because of its massive debt.
Japan itself needs to rearm nonetheless, even if US in its current form can kick the crap out of China, a strong navy and ground force will deter the fuck out of China and mitigate loss if wars happen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235821
>>I know people who served in Afghanistan - they go on for ages.
So? The fact they go on for ages doesn't cut out the necessity of self-defense.
>What do you think you're going to do if you come home from work and find out that your apartment was broken into and property of yours was stolen?
Probably inform any authority, if there isn't, inform your friends and family, get the guns and find the criminals.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235952
>>13235955
>Yes, I do but that's because I don't have guns.
I would rather have no guns and a well-armed police force actively pressuring and suppressing armed gangs than no cops and armed gangs allowed to run amok.

>Because they have better weapons and better-trained, also have air and armor support, wait more than any hicks can afford?
Which instantly means that their sole purpose is to kill you.

>As bad as it is, cut the useless social spending and raise tax
This would send Japan straight back into a recession, most likely a prolonged one rather than the more modest one they just suffered.

Try buying armaments without incurring debt when your revenues fall.

>Japan itself needs to rearm nonetheless, even if US in its current form can kick the crap out of China, a strong navy and ground force will deter the fuck out of China and mitigate loss if wars happen.
Are you seriously advocating that we plunge ourselves into a war with the PRC?

>So? The fact they go on for ages doesn't cut out the necessity of self-defense.
> if there isn't, inform your friends and family, get the guns and find the criminals.
You're confusing self-defence with revenge killings. You're advocating third-world solutions to crime at this point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235952
>mitigate loss if wars happen
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arms+race

[Anonymous No.]

I would fuck korean, marry Japan, and kill China.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13236105
>I would rather have no guns and a well-armed police force actively pressuring and suppressing armed gangs than no cops and armed gangs allowed to run amok.
Sound like a bootlicker to me m8, no matter how well-armed the police are, they wouldn't always be there at the exact time as a tools like guns.
>Which instantly means that their sole purpose is to kill you.
No, it means if they want to kill me, they would an easier time doing than any hicks.
>This would send Japan straight back into a recession, most likely a prolonged one rather than the more modest one they just suffered.
So? Better recession than a war happen with China, ending with millions dead.
>Try buying armaments without incurring debt when your revenues fall.
Japan can buy as well as sell armanents, god knows if other SEA countries can buy japanese warships, this means they got other sort of revenues.
>Are you seriously advocating that we plunge ourselves into a war with the PRC?
No, I'm advocating we are bolstering defense against the PRC because the PRC is flexing its muscle.
>You're confusing self-defence with revenge killings. You're advocating third-world solutions to crime at this point.
If there is no authority, no cop to fall back to, it's just we solve problems m8, can't let the perps get away with it.

And the greatest arm race was the one between the SU and NATO, in the end, neither sides go to war.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13236193
>Sound like a bootlicker to me m8
Under a constitutional democracy, I have the following options if a cop were to deliberately injure me or unlawfully confiscate my property:
- Present evidence to the police and the judiciary of the crimes committed
- Sue the cop for damages
- Air my grievances through the media and through contact with my elected representatives and other pressure groups
Under complete anarchy, if some gang member robs or injures me, I have the following options:
- Try to kill him and his buddies
>no matter how well-armed the police are, they wouldn't always be there at the exact time as a tools like guns.
This isn't even relevant to the conversation at hand. You're mixing up your talking points at this point.

>>13236193
>No, it means if they want to kill me, they would an easier time doing than any hicks.
You're insane to think that the entire military will seriously contemplate just coming out the blue to kill random civilians.

>>13236193
>So? Better recession than a war happen with China, ending with millions dead.
I'm going to say this one more time: We are not going to war with China. There is zero possibility that there will be full-scale war with China. Neither side would be so stupid as to provoke their largest trading partner into a war.

You want a deterrent? How about the threat of economic collapse. That's what would happen if there was a war between China and Japan. The US would be forced to step in and everything would go to shit.

All of this means that there's no reason for spending obaa-san's pension money on carriers and tanks that will never be used because neither side is willing to provoke the other. Other than the same strain of neoconservatism that got us into Iraq in the first place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13236219
>Japan can buy as well as sell armanents, god knows if other SEA countries can buy japanese warships, this means they got other sort of revenues.
This isn't how government finance works, and I thought Japan was supposed to be stockpiling weapons anyway?

>No, I'm advocating we are bolstering defense against the PRC because the PRC is flexing its muscle.
See my previous post.

>If there is no authority, no cop to fall back to, it's just we solve problems m8, can't let the perps get away with it.
I thought you were advocating the abolition of law enforcement?

>And the greatest arm race was the one between the SU and NATO, in the end, neither sides go to war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proxy_wars
Southeast Asia is unstable as it is. Provoking an arms race would be a mistake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13236219
You put too much faith in the laws, m8, but fine if that's the way you want to live, I don't. I care for the laws because it protects me, but a gun would protect me first and foremost, from gangs, from cops, from the world if needed be and I don't need to spend any seconds dialing 911 when a threat appears.

And what's with the recent back in Bundy ranch, shit can get real real fast if said civies do not conform to the govt.

Si vis pacem, para bellum. Having a strong defense force always help deterring threats. People thought economic ties would have prevented WW1

The truth is Chinese economy is even more unstable than Japan, and if it's collapsed, either the PRC will go quietly into the night like the SU or it goes full retard like argentines back in Falklands therefore a presence of stronger US force and JSDF in the area would deter them from going option 2. I am anti-Iraq too, but this situation is different, China's attitude in the region is anything but provoking, they know have no legal rights of the islands they are contesting yet they are still doing it anyway. Unreasonable demands should be met with force.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13236236
>This isn't how government finance works, and I thought Japan was supposed to be stockpiling weapons anyway?
Japan stockpiled their own weapons, their laws ban exporting weapons.
>I thought you were advocating the abolition of law enforcement?
Uh, yeah, and if there isn't cop, that would be the way to solve it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proxy_wars
These conflicts are small scale compared to the World Wars that preceded them. Southeast Asia is unstable as it is. Provoking an arms race would be a mistake.
It's unstable as it is because China is provoking the SEA nations and breaking the NATO-aligned order, either China is put into place or SEA will remain or become more unstable.
>

[Anonymous No.]

>>13236241
>but a gun would protect me first and foremost [...] from cops, from the world
Yeah, sure thing. You fight them cops. You go girl.

>I care for the laws because it protects me
>>I thought you were advocating the abolition of law enforcement?
>Uh, yeah
So you value laws but you want to abolish the people that enforce them. Right.

Am I witnessing political chuunibyou?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13236298
I care for laws when it benefits me.

If laws don't benefit me, I would fight it.

And here's how political chuuni deals with things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfOVg5R4ngA

Armed men have stronger voices.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13234026
The history tidbit really adds depth to the otherwise boring doujin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13234026
This post will be on 2ch in a few days, I guarantee it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13235710


These sorts of conversations usually bring up this ironic point, where the manner of officials selected by demotism are held up as examples for why we need more demotism.


Its also interesting you mention feedback mechanisms. By design, officials in popular governance do not 'own' the things they administer. The result of this is that they wield power, but not responsibility for it. This problem is also exacerbated by the fact that such officials have limited tenure, meaning otherwise desirable traits for a leader like low time preference do not pay immediately and individually, and can even benefit a later opponent (and we wonder why they all seem to go so wrong). In an explicitly propertarian regime, people, places, and things under a ruling agent are also that agents capital; if it is well, he is well, if it is unwell, he is unwell. That's feedback directly from being.

In systems of popular governance, such feedback mechanisms are unmoored from reality, you get the world of baudrillard, debord, or althusser. Conditions become incidental, because all that is required is peoples votes. and victory goes to he who can best manufacture consent, he who demonstrates superior holiness, the most memetically adaptive ideologies. Indeed, it is almost mandatory! IF popular government, THEN mass mind control, the incentive structure demands no less, and little more is required.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13237771
I don't know about you and I don't understand half of your made-up words but I'm not under any illusions that our society can do any better than what we have now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13230634
imagine the uniforms...