/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

So, was she a male who later turned into female or female disguised as male?

Is it clearly explained?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428645
It is, check the wiki.

Thank you and come again. It was a female, but history recorded her as a male.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428647

Just like Nobunaga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428656
and Arthur

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428658
and Jack the Ripper

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428740
Jack the Ripper is barely even a myth though, it's not like anyone ever saw him/her, at least Arthur was described as a male in the legends.

[Anonymous No.]

And Chuck Yeager.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428647
I can't find it on the wiki.

Which work are you taking that statement from?

>>12428656
>>12428658
>>12428740
If you want a legit one, Uesugi Kenshin.
Some historians suspect him to be female. Maybe it's true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428751
Probably not though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428751
Sanae TD ending, even if at school she sucked at history at school she knew very well the prince should be male so she's pretty concerned. Then there's a narrator comment where ZUN said "what Sanae didn't know is that lately the fact the prince actually existed for real was being questioned" so her image basically got a bit distorted. Plus to resuscitate she actually had to change bodies in first place and after all those years another distortion could have happened there (afterall Tojiko woke up as a ghost thanks to someone being a dick)

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428798
what zun actually means: it's touhou, all the characters are girls, deal with it

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428809

What about Kourin?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428811
literally who

[Anonymous No.]

Miko actually being a woman all along is a comment from ZUN relating to modern criticisms about the existence of Prince Shoutoku. It's contested as to whether or not Shoutoku actually existed, or whether it's like an amalgamation of legends about people who did exist, or if they're mostly made up altogether, etc. These criticisms are ZUN's motivation for saying Prince Shoutoku has become a legend and therefore popped up in Gensokyo. Prince Shoutoku being revealed to be a woman, as Miko, is ZUN's way of playing with the fact that if we can't even say Shoutoku existed, what's not to say they did exist but was a woman, but history simply recorded them as a man?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428944
Pretty roundabout excuse just to make a genderbent version of a popular historical person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428814
Zun's dream surrounded by female.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428814
Morichika Rinnosuke, owner of the Kourin-dou and the main character of ZUN's Touhou Kourindou: Curiosities of Lotus Asia short story series, later releases as a book of the same title.

But you literally knew that already.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428995
l i t e r a l l y w h o

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428967
Well, to be fair a lot of man inventions and important things are recently being studied and actually retconned to women since back then they were treated like inferior beings. One example is the dna photo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429006
Lol nice
Funny

Also there are like loads of males both human and youkai but they just don't get the spotlight. Also we had some other important males in the written works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429016
feminists pls leave, woman can do whatever nowadays and it's still the males that invent everything, look at the nobel prizes, the only thing womans win is literature, fucking literature

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429023
Was there ever a touhou game with an important male character? Or a male character at all? No? Then stfu.

[Anonymous No.]

Daily reminder that it wears earmuffles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429025
Oh wow, a misogynist on /jp/. That's cute. Did you get lost, little guy?

>>12429028
Unzan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429025
Marie Curie, Nobel prizes in chemistry and physics. Her dick's bigger than yours and she didn't even have one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429062
I'm just saying, your "retconning" is bullshit. Historical people and inventors have been 99% males, and just because the documents are from 1500 years ago, and can be difficult to trace, that doesn't instantly mean that they were woman.
It's not misogynism, that's how this race works, man and woman have different roles. Man are supposed to be pack leaders and come up with new shit for survival, while woman are supposed to raise the offsprings and manage establishments. That's how it's been since caveman age and how it is now. Some people can try to force otherwise but in the end, woman will always want kids and man will always want to explore, and neither is actually less important than the other.
>>12429071
You mean Pierre Curie's wife, who was the actual researcher? Sure, still 99% of scientific nobel prizes has gone for males. Unsurprisingly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429078
>You mean Pierre Curie's wife?
What do you think?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429081
What's a rhetorical question

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429078
>that doesn't instantly mean that they were woman

Of course, I never said that, important women will always be way inferior in number about past stuff, but there were actually important women since the beginning of times and some were so important they didn't even get obscured in the first place. Stop your silly fear, I'm not defending the current feminazi scandal or saying "suddenly x was a female" I'm just saying there are various cases of obscuration for reasons like your silly fear that are being heavily studied since women didn't get treated that seriously in the past (and won't now if they stick to this new bullshit tumbrl has created)

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429097
I don't know what you're talking about, I don't fear anything. The world leaders can be all woman for all I care, I'm just saying that your point is bullshit fabrication. And that the inventors and historical people have been males, not just out of sexism or some stupid shit like but because that is what they supposed to do.
Like seriously, I went to a medical college where like 86% of the students were girls and still the top students and students on important scholarship researches were all males. That's just how it works. Some femnazi propaganda nowadays, or at least in the late years has promoted that woman have to do the same as males, but in reality if you talk with a girl they just want a family and do girly stuff and it's pretty much just because of peer pressure that they do it. Not to mention that guys these days tend to idealise girls that do male stuff instead of just being girls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428798
But then he should consider how was the patriarchy rule back then. Was it even allowed for a woman to rule an entire nation as a ruler during that era?

If it was then history should had noted it or it should had brought influence to later empires and continued to today's era, which seems to be not the case as we see today.
If it wasn't then it's impossible to just said that Shotoku was actually a woman who once ruled Japan. At best, she could had been disguised as man so she can rule properly.
Also, there's reason why she refers herself as "Prince", as well as her cohorts, probably. Only Seiga who I know calls Miko "Lady".

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429117
Taishi's aunt Empress Suiko was the ruler, Taishi was just the crown prince and a regent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429116
Whatever, I guess you can't discute with /pol/ thickheads.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429117
In Rome and Egypt there were some cases were the most important ruler was actually the woman if it can help. But the hypothesis of Miko disguising herself makes more sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429121
Oh shit, I forgot there was an Empress.

Well, then it's possible that Miko was a woman when she ruled, but still, she refers herself as Prince. It must means something.

[Anonymous No.]

I read SoPM so I do understand this issue
>Since they have already abandoned their body and flesh by the time they resurrect, there is some degree of freedom to the forms they can assume, but it said that most shikaisen will choose to look similar to their old appearances. This is because of their attachment to their appearance, as well as so others can recognize them. For this reason she has her old-fashioned look, while Miko changed to a look more suited to modern times.
So basically, it doesn't matter whatever it was in the past, this is the form Taishi chooses in Gensokyo.

No need to debate over trivial shit like Taishi's former sex when his/her deeds are more important.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429123
You know, this sort of male fantasy of strong, boyish and pretty girls like touhou is all well and good but you can't just discredit reality in favor of it. And trying to pressure girls into trying to be that ideal is just a dick thing to do. You can just look at how it works nowadays, if a girl plays video games or does any sort of male hobby then she's instantly a 100 times more interesting than a girl who just does girly things. And honestly I think that's pretty awful, at least in the past woman with womanly grace were appreciated, nowadays they're just boring and annoying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429132
Oh, it's Futo's entry btw.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Mononobe_no_Futo

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429130
What does she actually calls herself though? Is it 皇子 because that could just simply mean child of the emperor not necessarily prince.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429117
>>12429130
They refer to her as "taishi" (crown prince), which, while not a gender-neutral term, still primarily means "the first person in line to the throne".

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429117
you should keep in mind though that japan very rarely had times when there was "one ruler" it's usually a lot of clans holding power over different pieces of land, you should look at the emperor/empress more like how the pope was in medieval europe, they do hold military power and are the religious leaders but it's not like they're the ultimate rulers of everyone

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429028
"2hus are all girls guize there's no male in gensokyo I refuse to recognize them" is retarded, even if you're being ironic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429169
There weren't and never will be actual male characters in touhou games, TD is a game so any excuse can be justified with it's a touhou game so everyone is female. A floating pink cloud with a moustached face and some characters from spin offs make no difference on that fact.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429179
but unzan is a dude...

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429192
It's just a cloud monster, might as well be an animal familiar.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429194
But it has a mustache.

Also, if animal familiar supposedly has no sex, Ran can be a dude for all I care.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429179
That doesn't change that fact that males exist in Touhou. And F.Y.I, Uzan is a guy whether you think so or not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429216
You sure like twisting words around don't you. I just said that it would be irrelevant even if Unzan had a gender but I doubt that a pink cloud actually has any gender. And Ran is not just an animal she's a mythical creature.
>>12429222
Stop being so retarded, we're talking about the games not everything that's related to gensokyo ever. And no Unzan is just a cloud with a face.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429227
Well, Unzan is also a mythical creature, just like Ran.

Both are familiars.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429231
Does he have a penis and testicles? No? Then he's not a dude just a floating face. Also you're just twisting words around again like the little bitch you are. I can't believe that you're actually that stupid that you can't make a difference between something that has a complete female body and a face shaped cloud.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429246
Well, he does have a mustache, girls don't generally have well-defined mustache, anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429227
No, the conversation started from here >>12428809
>all characters all girls

He didn't refer to game only characters, and then when given an example he keep saying "literally who XD" like a retard. You think that's funny? It's like I'm on reddit holy shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429227
What? If you're the same poster, then you said this.

>what zun actually means: it's touhou, all the characters are girls, deal with it

This is strictly wrong. You're arguing that male characters either don't exist or don't matter just because they're not prevalent in the games. That is just stupid.

Plus there are characters like Nue, who we don't know the gender of since they can manipulate their appearance and Shingyoku.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429253
My aunt has a pretty well-defined mustache. I never really understood why won't she shave it, maybe she likes it I don't know, I always felt that it would be too awkard if I asked. Still Unzan is just a genderless monster. But what is even your point, it was just a simple statement that nobody with a working brain would disagree with, that it's a touhou game so the characters gonna be all girls and that's it. Having the dubious looking cloud familiar of a miniboss resemble a male face is hardly a reason to go THUHU GAMES ALL HAVE GUYZ.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429258
>>12429259
That was my post by the way and I just meant to make a light joke on the fact that touhou games always feature girls but you guys had to go and be total autistic fucks and shitpost for hours. Seriously, go kill yourselves.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429258
Also
>_m
l i t e r a l l y k i l l y o u r s e l f

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429266
So you were just pretending to be retarded? Uh, okay. Fair enough, I guess? And I just got here a few minutes ago.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429275
I was just joking initially but the fact truly is touhou games are always about girls, so that's enough reason for Taishi to be a girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429264
...dude, we're just having touhou games do have guy, Unzan being one.
Btw, didn't SoPM confirm that Unzan is a dude?
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Ichirin_Kumoi_%26_Unzan

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429280
I don't dispute that, but there are exception(s).

Anyway, I'm not OP so I'm not bothered at all by Taishi being a girl or a guy.

To be honest, a more worthy discussion would be why ZUN shows Taishi as a secret taoist who puts up a buddhist front.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429281
Japanese generally doesn't really distinguish between genders, unless explicitly states. And the description there for all I've seen just uses the standard genderless Japanese. Also if anything it just mentions that Unzan is a cloud and take any form it wants, except the color will always stay the same.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429266
Next thing you going to say is "nobody is straight in Gensokyo!" right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429291
Well, whatever form it is, it ain't a girl considering the reason it respects Ichirin in the first place is that she's a courageous girl.

So even if it's a not dude, it's a not girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429287
>why ZUN shows Taishi as a secret taoist who puts up a buddhist front
How else could Taishi live after like a thousand years, as far as eastern religion magic stuff goes only taoism promises immortality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429296
>So even if it's not a dude, it's not a girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429296
Uhh that's what I've said in the first place, it's a genderless cloud monster.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429298
I believe your point is that 2hu games are all about girls.

If Unzan ain't a girl, that statement is wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429292
You can't lock girls together all day and expect them not to sex each other.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429303
Meant for>>12429302

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428798
tl,dr, only three words mattered:
>Sanae
>sucked
>dick

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429266
Pretending to be retarded is shit-tier joke.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429303
Unzan isn't really a main character though, it's the supporting character of a supporting character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429304
But there are boys in Gensokyo...

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429308
It's worse if you can't be sarcastic on 4chan without getting autistic kids on your back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429298
Well, he can become a youkai, or he can seal himself to preserve his youth like Byakuren.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429309
Well, we're just stretching here, but that's fine enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429316
I don't know how becoming a youkai would make more sense, it's pretty unclear what kind of "buddhist magic" Byakuren used. As far as Japan around Asuka period goes, words of taoism sound the most realistic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429313
Sarcastic is meant to be clever or to make one realize his mistake, not pretending to be wrong yourself for the lulz.
Also, you're the one who went with serious arguments when people just pointed things out because your "joke" was vague to begin with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429330
Human can become youkai, as long as they study youkai magic long enough.

Then again, that's the exact same thing with Byakuren, Byakuren didn't use buddhist magic, she used youkai magic to preserve her youth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429335
Don't just make up your own definitions. Not to mention that arguing about semantics on 4chan is pretty pointless, it's just meant as a non serious manner.
It's not like I meant to write an essay, I just didn't expect that people are really this retarded and have no clue about the site they're on, or actually just new. In which case you should just lurk moar before posting little guy.

[Anonymous No.]

She was a male then she was a Touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429335
>>12429344
Stop arguing, the discussion is long over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429307
My sides.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429339
Eating human or youkai corpses has a possibility of turning you into a youkai too, or even if everyone thinks you're a youkai should also work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429339
It's pretty unclear what the youkai magic, or non-youkai magic is and to what extent do they make people immortal. Like Patchouli is if not immortal but very old even though she mainly just uses elemental magic, and I'm not sure if that's "youkai magic". Or what magic Marisa uses and how immortal that makes her. It's just an unclear thing to use for someone who lived like a thousand years ago.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429307
Holy shit that was a good one nigga

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429347
I don't really mind replying if people have something to say. This is a site for discussions after all and it's not like it hurts anyone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429313
>>12429335
Actually, the point of sarcasm is to be condescending. You may be thinking of irony, which is saying things with the intention to convey the opposite of their literal meaning.

But of course neither means "arguing something stupid until people get sick of you".

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429365
sarcasm
/ˈsɑːkæzəm/
noun
1.
mocking, contemptuous, or ironic language intended to convey scorn or insult

And there are probably 50 other definitions, and what it's actually used on 4chan. So like I've said bitching about semantics over an obscure term is just pointless. You don't really have to be an oldfag to understand what people mean by it here though, if anything you have to be really new to don't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429350
Agreed. Then again Taishi can become a shinto god, like Kanako (it's hinted Kanako wasn't a pure faith being like Suwako so she must have some physical origin).
>>12429355
Unless there's anything that proves otherwise, unless you stick to divine power from shintoism (Reimu, the lunarian, possibly the moon rabbits), taoist magic or buddhist magic, you will gradually become a magician (which is already a class of youkai) or youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429362
I just fear your discussion over semantics drown out my discussion over 2hu fluff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429390
I think zun just makes stuff up along the way. Probably shouldn't think too hard about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429392
I'm not the one who wants to argue about semantics, I actually just said that it's pointless to argue about semantics on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429395
No, there's a pretty clear precedent in every mythology/religion that there is a distinction of dark magic and white magic.

If you study light magic/become enlightened, you become positive faith beings (gods, saints).

If you study the dark kind, you become negative faith beings (monsters, witches).

[Anonymous No.]

I'm sure Miko won't stoop so low to use filthy youkai/black magic when better alternative in form of legit belief that mostly centered on philosophy is available.

>>12429287
It has something to do with Shotoku's strong interest of Chinese culture and how he brought it to Japan.
He also took Confucianism as his main influence.

He's basically a chinkboo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429402
Uhhh that's a pretty risky territory to go into. A lot of that comes down to the point of view. To christians shinto is heresy and idolatry, and paganism is witchery, for buddhists taoism is witchery. You can't really just say that one is good and one is bad. Like the thing is originally a witch or warlock is someone who makes a deal with the devil, but since everything that's non-christian is regarded as the work of the devil people worshipping them are witches too, even though from their point of view they're revering gods or the world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429377
Thanks for posting a more detailed definition, but it just reinforced what I said. And no, there aren't 50 others, that's the only one.

And I'm not arguing here, I'm correcting someone who used a word incorrectly. If it was you and you don't want an argument, simply admit your mistake and stop doing it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429417
No it doesn't, but good try buddy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429415
Of course, every religion sees thing as different from their own (unless it's interconnected like the eastern big trio shinto-buddhist-taoist or the classical european-north african mythologies that had some overlaps), just saying that they do have a precedent that there is good "spell" and bad "spell".

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429417
It was used correctly even by those definitions though, by the "literally who" I was just mocking how he's a nobody, even though I obviously know who he is aka in an ironic manner. So yeah just leave and go fuck yourself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429425
It's generally just my stuff=good other stuff=bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429436
Yes, but that's enough for distinction.

Never mind that even christians themselves embraced some "good" traditions from pagan faith anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429442
Well you know in reality people don't actually care about sky wizards and shit. Quarrels between religions and calling people heretics and what not is just a way to assure political power. If it benefits the leaders/founders of the religion then it's good if it doesn't then it's heresy. Touhou is a little different since magic actually exists there. Not that I don't like occult but I'm hard pressed to see a lot of that stuff as other than political ploys until I see a flying miko fighting a taoist hermit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429449
Religion is just a way of understanding the world through belief.

People nowadays might not care but the systems that have been created are complex and enthralling to read/study.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429455
Nah that's philosophy, religion is making dogmas that support your political standing. The more people believe it the more powerful you are. That's pretty much it, religious wars are never because people disagree which sky wizard created the world but because of political oppositions.
I do enjoy theology and occultism too, since the world gotta be more than what the surface looks like but still you gotta see things for what they are instead of taking everything at face value. It's that kind of thing, if you wanna know about diamonds first you have to be able to tell which ones are fake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429473
You focus on the political aspect of religion too much to the point where you believe religion is just a political ploy.

Some religions are created without inherent political elements, just that people add these elements later on. Which is why religions can die but politics can still live on without religions, they don't actually depend on each other.

Philosophy is also different than religion, because philosophy is a way of thinking, while religion is about believing, slight difference.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429486
A religion stops being a philosophy once it's used for politics. Until then it's just theories about the world and society as well.
Not really the sheep folk will always need to believe in something, and politicians will make use of that. Whether it's scientific or philosophical theories, the common folk has no clue about them anyways so they're gullible to anything without them realising it.
I'm not saying that anything that any religion says is wrong but you need to distinguish between what's a honest theory and what's a political tool.
Not really if you think about it, if you say you think God exists or you say you believe God exists. Makes no real difference.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429507
..but religions are their own things, they are not inherent philosophies, and religions can be used for politics, but that doesn't make them political by nature, just because they are used by politicians, it doesn't mean they are inherent political ploys because some religions are created apolitical.

And no, there's a difference between thinking and believing. Thinking requires no faith, which is what religion is about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429513
Most often they are, the bible, buddhist texts they generally were just thoughts about the world, society and human existence. Until a political power decided that it's beneficial for them to use as a seat of power. And then there are religions that are simply created for politics, just like shinto, the whole point of shinto is that the imperial family are the descendants of Amaterasu and therefore the rightful rulers of Japan, similarly how egyptian religion is simply for making the emperor the rightful ruler. There's a reason why taoism and confucianism are mainly regarded as philosophies rather than religions, since they have no or very little political relevance and have no actual church, and when they do have some relevance they're used as loose guidelines rather than actual dogmas.
Once a philosophy has enough political relevance for it to be dogmatic it becomes a religion, that's pretty much all there is to it.
Faith is a slippery word too, it pretty much just means "what you think is true".

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428740
And Francis Drake

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429538
It was queen Elizabeth though pretending to be Drake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428645
I'm sure we all know that Miko has a dick

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429556

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429534
The Bible itself is a religious text that is all about God and angels and saintly miracles, the philosophy part is just the analogy of it.

It's true buddhist sutra and taoism are regarded more as philosophies because they lack deities (the deities are added later on), but taoism on particularly preaches immortality and several mystical aspects that are common in religion. And confucianism, while lacking a dogma or church like a religion, is still successfully used by politicians to suppress people, saying it has political relevance is plain wrong.

>Once a philosophy has enough political relevance for it to be dogmatic it becomes a religion, that's pretty much all there is to it.
Well, that's just wrong. Some religions start out as religions/cult/worship by themselves, they have no inherent philosophies or political thoughts put into them such as the most ancient animism, these belief system might have predated political thought.

>Faith is a slippery word too, it pretty much just means "what you think is true".
And yes, this is different than the simple act of thinking, you put no stock in thinking, thinking can be anything while believing has your own stock in it because you insert your truth into it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429571
Dude I don't wanna say that you have no clue what you're talking about, but you have no clue what you're talking about.

Especially the jews would argue you that the bible is not about a religion but philosophies about what humans are. And the new testament only started having religious relevance when the romans decided that it's gonna be their official religion.

>It's true buddhist sutra and taoism are regarded more as philosophies because they lack deities (the deities are added later on)
Uhhh no, that is as wrong as it gets. Buddha was a hindu prince in the first place and if you read the Buddha's life you'll see how it's gods and demons that are responsible for basically everything. But in the first place buddhism was just theories about enlightenment, until people especially in south east asia decided that it'll be their official religion. I know westerners know fuck all about buddhism but just look at Burma, or Myanmar as it's called now and you'll what buddhism is like. Taoism is a lot of various chinese traditions and writings of philosophers, and a lot of them include deities, but primarily heavenly bodies. And confucianism is pretty much just theories about the ideal society, not much else really.
Nothing predates political thought, leaders were always necessary, and leaders needed something to lead with, which are beliefs.
Catholics and Protestants believe in the same thing differently, that's the same as your "thinking".

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429589
First off, I'm not a westerner.
>Especially the jews would argue you that the bible is not about a religion but philosophies about what humans are.
The jews can argue all they like, but if OT is about G_d' and various deities shaping human society then it's a religious text.
>Uhhh no, that is as wrong as it gets. Buddha was a hindu prince in the first place and if you read the Buddha's life you'll see how it's gods and demons that are responsible for basically everything.
>Taoism is a lot of various chinese traditions and writings of philosophers, and a lot of them include deities, but primarily heavenly bodies.
So they are straight out religions?
>And confucianism is pretty much just theories about the ideal society, not much else really.
It's a philosophy, that can be used to suppress people, make them more loyal to the ruler. It fits your proposal that "religion = philosophy + politics". So is it a religion or not?
>Nothing predates political thought, leaders were always necessary, and leaders needed something to lead with, which are beliefs.
But a leader has to believe in his own ability to lead first, before he inspires the others, so what comes first? Belief or ambition?
>Catholics and Protestants believe in the same thing differently, that's the same as your "thinking".
Duh, if catholics and protestants just think, they wouldn't fight over it, no, they believe, they insert their own truth in their thinking, and are ready to fight for their beliefs, so in the way, believing the same thing differently turns them into having different beliefs.

[Anonymous No.]

Never mind all this shitpile, what do we argue to begin with?

I said that religion is a way to understand the world through belief, and you disagree because you think that's philosophy, and that religion is a political ploy, despite the fact that some religions were originally apolitical, such as Buddhism or Taoism.

Why just not keep thing simple and admit that you are perhaps wrong?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429597
Westerner or not you clearly have no clue about asian theology, or judeo christian theology.

You know, the jews wrote that, so what they say is probably valid. It's been a subject of controversy since forever anyways, jews call christians idiots because they take the bible dogmatically instead of as a collection of theories, and christians say take everything pretty literally. I can't make judgement on centuries old debates, I'm just saying that initially it has always been theories. Having gods or not is pretty irrelevant, 2000-3000 years ago gods were just as real for people as any other person so it's obvious why they have place in philosophies. It's only been recently that deities are declared to be total fabrication.

Buddhism is theories derivative of Hinduism, they weren't meant to be a religion but a lot of nations recognised it as a good tool to rule people with. And they did, and it became a full blown religion because of that. It's another weird misbelief that people think buddhists are just philosopher hermits, no, they have big temples, lots of priests and lots of followers who'll go into massacres against muslims, as they've been doing in south east asia for a long time.
Confucianism is always used very loosely, as it is a loose collection of ideas anyways so making a full blown religion out of it is nigh impossible unlike buddhism, but it is still useful sometimes for some rulers.
Theories->ambition->beliefs
They kill each other because of politics.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429626
I'm not responding to this shitpile, go respond to this>>12429624

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429624
It was about what counts as good or magic. And I've just said that don't take everything at face value because usually there's more behind things than just "ur beliefs r stuped".

Things aren't simple especially when you talk about ambiguous things that have thousand years of history.
>>12429630
Rather you admit that you have no clue about religions at all, also don't try to make arguments with superficial knowledge. That's a tip of life for you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429634
I said things have a fucking precedent that there are beliefs that there are "good" and "bad" magic in every religions.

You think this means somehow I think that things are simple and I take thing as face values.

And no, I don't think I have admit I have no clue regarding religion, rather I don't see religion as always having to do with politics because as said, some were originally created apolitical, you just refuse to believe that if it doesn't involve politics, it's a not religion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429645
>it's not a religion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429645
> there are "good" and "bad" magic in every religions.
That's oversimplifying a lot of things, that's why I've said that it's not exactly like that. It's been pretty clear though how you have no clue about religions, since nothing you've said has been actually correct or not just beating around the bush.

Maybe once you're older you'll understand how religious beliefs are always for the benefit of a leader, unlike what simple theories are. At this point though I can't convince a fish to bark, nor do I really want to. So that's just another tip of life for you, being cynical is key.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429664
OK, seems like we have reach a standstill, no understanding is made so arguing further is pointless.

Thanks for all the supposed tips of life though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429670
Well since you don't really know what you're talking about just spout some simplistic opinions we won't be really getting anywhere.

You're welcome, like I've said you probably want read about judeochristian theology, read some buddhist, taoist, islam, shinto etc. texts and learn about history before trying to make arguments. Really, I wouldn't say that I'm a fucking professor on everything but at least I've done those things, so I have a general idea of what I'm saying, that's generally not a bad thing when you make arguments.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429682
No thanks, we differ from principles.

You think religions cannot be religions without political elements, that's just plain wrong according to the definition of religion (belief in gods and deities, the spiritual), and the historical existence of originally apolitical religion (Buddhism, Taoism,various animism), I don't know what history books you read but they don't change definition of something that is already established.

[Anonymous No.]

So I guess religion and belief are different, while religion is refering to a developed beliefs with other elements such as political purposes and philosophy that has wide influence in the world, something like obscure Hawaiian or remote African tribes' beliefs are simply belief.

When a belief start to be used to spread influence, gain followers, and rise to higher rank in society then it's referred as religion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429691
A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.
"organised"
"collection"
You're the one changing definitions now. Seriously dude stop trying to make arguments when you don't know what you're talking about. I'm pretty carefree so I don't actually give a fuck but there are plenty of people who'll get pissed off at you if you keep doing this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429700
If the belief is about gods and spiritual, paranormal beings, it's a religion.
>The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/religion

I don't know when and where people inject inherent philosophy and politic into the defining concept of religion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429700
They're not clearly organised that's why it's hard to call them religion or not. But they generally work for the benefit of the leaders, elders as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429705
This is my definition of religion>>12429707

So no sir, I do think I know what I'm talking about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429712
Cherrypicking won't make for good arguments. Religion is an ambiguous term in itself, so picking one definition that supports your ideas is not that hard. So yeah still you have no clue about anything, I don't wanna be mean but why don't you just stop posting, you're not convincing with superficial opinions and cherrypicked defintions, go read a book instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429716
Dude, I literally get that from Oxford.

And no, I do not need to convince you, because I stand by with that definition, and that is enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429708
If I start to make a belief/religion for myself only, what will you call it?

I believe that Accelerator is my God and I will pray twice a day for good luck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428967
The correct answer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429720
You got it from an online dictionary, wow what an infallible evidence about a widely used term. Seriously kid, if you won't fix your attitude you gonna piss of a lot of people in life. Really just give it up, you have literally no arguments. If you keep perstering me with fallacies I'll have to assume that you're just trolling, I doubt that people that stupid actually exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429722
If you can make followers with that, sure anything works. But until then you're just a weirdo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429730
Really, I have nothing to even give up here, there exists apolitical religions, there exists definition for religion that does not have politics nor philosophy meaning in it.

I'm sorry that I don't share your point of view.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429740
You know the thing is both of those are fallacies
1.Fallacies of weak inference fail to prove the conclusion due to insufficient evidence.
2 Fallacies of ambiguity fail to prove the conclusion due to vagueness in words, phrases, or grammar.

While I provided proper evidence and logical reasoning. That's the difference between me having a proper argument and you spouting simplistic opinions and then grasping at straws to try and justify it. I don't really wanna repeat myself over and over again, I guess that's how you talk to kids though, but go read some books before trying to make arguments.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429734
You said that belief is something that benefits the leader.

If I refuse any benefits from the followers of the belief I created, including the privilage to be called the founder, does it still count as a belief?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429752
1. Apolitical religions exist, therefore it means not all religions have politics in it.
2. If you say religion is an ambigious term, my definition is as as much as legit as your, so see 1 again.

I like reading books, but I think I can handle this one considering it's a rather simple case of disproving, you say all religions are political ploys, well, that is, as said, plainly wrong since some are not. Your "proper" evidence does not disprove the existence of apolitical religions either, you are just denying them as religions altogether, that's your problem, not mine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429762
You're not very good at following conversations, I've said that people make theories to make sense of the world. In this case it would be thinking that Accelerator is the creator of the world of whatever, which is all fine and dandy. But if you declare that you're his high priest/prophet and everyone has to do as you say without refusing anything then it's a religion at that point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429766
1. So far you haven't managed to name a single one, just made it clear that you know nothing about religions and threw a tantrum about how you don't want this "shitpile".
2. My one had logical reasoning behind it, you just cherrypicked a sentence from the internet. There's a difference between explained argument and fallacy of incomplete evidence which is what you did.

Obviously not, since you haven't read any of the related literature and completely unable to provide an argument without making it chuckfull of fallacies. If this was a class you'd get an F or whatever the worst grade for your system is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429776
1. Buddhism, Taoism are apolitical in their conceptions, there were literal about human/self-improvement.
2. Uh, no, you just pick a phrase from the internet too, and your examples do not disprove my examples either.

And to be frank, I don't want the shitpile because that discussion was muddy, rather keep thing simple and clear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429538
And Hang Tuah

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429792
What are you even talking about? Buddhism is as political as a religion gets and taoism is considered more as a philosophy than a religion in the first place so that doesn't make a good evidence either. Seriously dude, at this point I question your ability to even read. I expected you to think about norse or greek religions since they're more ambiguous but buddhism? Are you kidding me. Buddhism is literally the christianity of Asia. I can't believe you're not just trolling right now.

Not really I explained that religion is an organised collection of beliefs, therefore has hierarchy, leaders and so on. Whilst philosophies like taoism and confucianism aren't organised, have no leaders or anything. Your example was just an incomplete piece of information that you tried to use as a blanket term, because that was more beneficial of your opinions.

Nah you don't want it because you know that I actually have read about religions while you're just making stuff up so I can debunk any stupid shit that you say. And to be honest I don't really care, but then shut up and go read something before making an idiot out of yourself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429820
Buddhism has many different sects, but its conception, is only about saving the human self from suffering, not about killing the other sect, not about worshiping the leader, the later political leaders who use it as a political tool do not, I repeat, do not change this fact.

Taoism is recognized as a religion, because it has a belief of mystical ideas of the after-life, immortality, and even deitification of Laozi and various other chinese famous characters. The fact you deny that it's not a religion, does not mean it's not a religion.

As said, you deny apolitical religions as religions, so there's not much I can do.

>Not really I explained that religion is an organised collection of beliefs
No, you quote wikipedia for that, while I quote Oxford for a different definition.

[Anonymous No.]

Anyway, apolitical religion dude here, I'm done here.

I should have stopped earlier, but this is it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429848
Dude I can't believe, you literally cannot read. I haven't seen something like this before. What I've said was that people make theories and ideas(like buddhism) and when those ideas are seen as an implement of ruling then they become organised and become religions.
Then you started flailing around like an idiot that "I'm right! There are apolitical religions! Like Buddhism, even though it works exactly as you described! But I'm right and you're not!"

>do not change this fact.
Just because you decided that it won't be true. Buddhist sects have been killing people for a very long time, and buddhism has been used for political reasons for a very long. Therefore it's a religion, used simply politics, exactly how christianity works. Seriously I can't believe you're this dense.

Taoism has a lot of branches, there are ones that are religious, and they have political purposes with priests and followers, mostly about going against buddhism, but for the most part it's just unorganised thoughts and ideas.

Because there are no apolitical religions, fuckin' hell. You still haven't managed to bring a convincing evidence otherwise. You brought buddhism for having no political relations, fucking buddhism Jeeeesus Chriiiist.

Difference is I had a logical point stemming from my argument while you just cherrypicked a sentence from the internet.

Seriously dude just stop posting, your stupidity is getting real embarassing.

[Anonymous No.]

You know, this conversation is like something that Miko and Byakuren will argue about.

It's like I'm watching SoPM live.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429904
they just like catfighting though

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429883
Damn, I'm going to bite again. My point is that buddism and taoism are recognized as religions when they were freaking apolitical, you refuse to accept this fact, you say they are mere theories, well, they are not, they are already recognized religions by that point because encompass beliefs in various deities and the spiritual.

And no, your argument is basically: this is my definition, this thing is no religion, and because only political religions are religion, my definition is always right, of course, because you use a circular argument.

[Anonymous No.]

Can we go back to talking about Miko being the first transsexual Touhou?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429925
What about Sariel?

Sariel was male in da Bible right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429916
>My point is that buddism and taoism are recognized as religions when they were freaking apolitical
Wow were you there 2500 years ago? That's impressive. If not you're just making bullshit up, because back then people didn't even had the concept of religion in the first place. Buddhism is political today though, and taoism is dependent on the sect. That's why those are organised and that's why those are religions.

Not really my argument isn't circular, the sentence you made is circular. You have no actual clue what a circular argument is do you? Fuck me, it feels like I'm talking with a grade schooler. I don't really understand why do you try to talk about stuff you have no clue about over and over again, you'd think that even the dumbest cat will stop jumping on the heater after it first burned it's paws.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429934
..I can actually prove it because taoist religious side is stemmed from this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_folk_religion

So yes, the concept of religion predates either buddhism and taoism.

And yes, your argument is circular because you refuse universally recognized religion as religion, so your definition can always be right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429930
I stand corrected.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429916
Let's just make a simple example for you okay? Let's say that I think that every human consciousness is connected and that network is what people call deities and can leave marks with emotions that other people can sense, like ghosts and such. Would you call that a religion? No, it's just a theory that I made up now. But what if I got 10.000 people to believe in it and I declared that I'm the prophet interface of this network and what I say is what every human wants, then you would call that a religion wouldn't you. It's not a hard thing to understand so I don't know why you're trying to oppose it so much.

>>12429938
That literally proves nothing though, folk religions most often than not are serving the shaman's/elder's/priest's ruling in the village, just because it's a smaller scale it's still political.

They didn't call it religion, for them that was the world, not just "beliefs in deities", for them at the time that was the most obvious thing to do. You should understand that as well.

>universally recognized religion as religion
>universally
No, but nice try.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429951
>It's not a hard thing to understand so I don't know why you're trying to oppose it so much.
It's not a hard thing to understand, the problem here is that you try to limit the scope of the religious system down to the prophet and the worshipper, when religion is just the belief in gods, if you believe in said network of gods, you are already having a religion, according to my definition.

>That literally proves nothing though, folk religions most often than not are serving the shaman's/elder's/priest's ruling in the village, just because it's a smaller scale it's still political.
Hardest point to tackle, but folk religion in general serves the need of the community first and foremost, the priest is just doing the community a service of bringing a miracle to them, if the priest does not do any miracle, said priest will be disposed, this does not mean the priest is served by the community, but the priest serves the community.

>They didn't call it religion, for them that was the world, not just "beliefs in deities", for them at the time that was the most obvious thing to do. You should understand that as well.
I understand that very well, but that does not stop from them being a religion, heck, it makes it more a religion, because people actually believe in it.

>No, but nice try.
Dude, you denying that it isn't a religion does not stop people from all over the world from doing so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429915
Yeah, but the similiarity is scary.

One insist that religion in nature is about beliefs and enlightment with no other motives behind, and tend to use Buddhism as example.
The other one insist that religion is about politics and organization and without it, it can't be called religion. Justifying that in order to be called religion, there must be a ruler.

From what I see it's just the difference on how they define the term "religion".

And judging from the conversation, their personalities seems to be similiar, too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429995
Then your definition is just plain stupid, and gods aren't real how can you base an argument on unreal things. You really are grasping at straws here.

> if the priest does not do any miracle
.... but there are no miracles, the priest can just say that the rain is falling because he was dancing 2 days ago and blam miracle, or it's not raining because the gods are angry and they need to sacrifice sheeps until they calm down, and once it rains, yaay the sacrifices worked, as long as the priest/shaman isn't an idiot he can make use of people very easily with some beliefs in his power

It's just making the term even more ambiguous, people nowdays think that the world was created in the big bang, 13.8 billion years ago and they trust and believe in those scientists. Now I'm not saying that scientists are making use of people's trust, or at least for the most part they don't, but you can't tell whether priests 1000 years ago didn't actually believe that they're serving God without a doubt. So a 1000 years down the line that theory, that billions believed in might just be proved to be bollocks. Is it a religion then? Right now, would you say that theories like that are a religion? I highly doubt, because by your definition they are, even though you should see how they aren't religions.

"Taoism, or Daoism, is a philosophical, ethical, and religious tradition"
I don't see it saying "universal religion" just that parts of it are related to religions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12430019
>and gods aren't real how can you base an argument on unreal things.
Gods might not be real, but belief on gods are very real. This is what we base on, not actual gods, which is why I originally said "understanding through belief", not gods.
>.... but there are no miracles, the priest can just say that the rain is falling because he was dancing 2 days ago and blam miracle, or it's not raining because the gods are angry and they need to sacrifice sheeps until they calm down, and once it rains, yaay the sacrifices worked, as long as the priest/shaman isn't an idiot he can make use of people very easily with some beliefs in his power
The point is that whether he can do it or not, the smaller scale, and the close-knit community is what keep the priest from being revered and turned a more personal service along the line of "if you promise but can't do it so many times, you are a bad priest". And considering how many priests lived and died in China without making folk religion into something like Christianity with the Pope, such tricks didn't work.
> So a 1000 years down the line that theory, that billions believed in might just be proved to be bollocks. Is it a religion then? Right now, would you say that theories like that are a religion? I highly doubt, because by your definition they are, even though you should see how they aren't religions.
Yes, no, it would be said to be false. The difference in science and religion is that science bases and supports itself based on scientific proofs, maths calculation that can be done again and again, while religion, at its core, is just faith, there's no (consistent) proof.
>I don't see it saying "universal religion" just that parts of it are related to religions.
Even wikipedia refers to it as a religion in the latter part, just not unified.
>Taoism does not fall under an umbrella or a definition of a single organized religion like the Abrahamic traditions...

[Anonymous No.]

>>12430001
It's similar in a way, but as the apolitical dude, I support Kanako's teaching that religion might be beneficial for the spiritual growth of human, rather than Byakuren's harmony with youkai idea.

Miko is right about the Buddhism in his era (to make people into cattle), but then again, she truly believes in her Dao to be the right one, which is the core tenet of Daoism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12428755
something about having monthly stomach issues (reminiscent of menstrual cramping), the body going missing, and being allowed to go into all-female nunneries. I honestly feel it's pretty plausible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12430049
Again you're trying to reason with something that's not actually a corporeal real thing, leaders and followers are.

Thing is the priest enjoys the same benefits as any other villager for basically doing no work. And a lot of the times priests/priestesses in folk religions are revered pretty highly. Folk religions still exist, especially in asia they're still very relevant, if you go to a chinese village their own traditions outweigh anything else by tons. That they didn't become world religions doesn't really matter.

You can't say that, when Buddhism was written 2500 years ago it was a 100% reliable truth. Now what scientists say is a 100% truth for people, but can you say that it'll be a 1000 years down the line? No you can't. It's just what you believe in right now. You can only tell whether you think it's a theory or a religion for people who see it from the future.

Can you actually read? It seems like you don't, just because it says that it's not one organised religion that doesn't mean it's a "universal" religion. If anything it says that it's different traditions from folk religions and philosophies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12430070
Duh, it's a freaking religion, it's centered around surreal things, no matter the amount of leaders and followers. If you argue otherwise, might as well say the military and the government are religion because they have order, leaders and followers.

Folk religion still exist, and priests are still revered, but for the moment, it's outta respect of their old age and knowledge and their lineage, not because of their supernatural ability anymore. But in this way, the priest is still a doing service, by counseling.

Oh come on, the buddhism that was written 2500 years ago might be very well be very different from today, there is nothing "reliable" about it, people just believed in it (or forced to), which is why it can change to so many different things. Science develop on proofs and trials, it doesn't matter if people don't believe in it as long as it can be consistently proved.

I said it's universally recognized religion, that means everyone knows that it's a religion, not that everyone worships it universally. As said, folk religion is already a religion in the first place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429194
>It's just a cloud monster
You know who else is a monster?

80% of Touhou's cast.

[Anonymous No.]

Once again, apolitical dude here, signing off.

I need to sleep.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12430098
They're making use of theories, but still for a religion to be a religion having a leader and having followers is the most important. Most religions are militaristic, or at least used to be, there's a reason why that is.

No, seriously go to an asian village and you'll see how they're not "counselors" but have deep beliefs in the supernatural. Talking from a big city in a developed country is a lot different from living in a small village in the middle of nowhere. Hell there are villages in Europe where the beliefs in supernatural are still very strong.

Stop being so short sighted, this sort of "I'm right, people long ago were just stupid" kind of arrogance will just make people in future laugh at you the same way you laugh at people from thousands of years ago. Not to mention that this "science" is not as reliable as you believe it to be, >90% of it is just theories that noone is sure of, or straight up fictions. Just like how Schrödinger had a couple of useful theories but the vast majority of what he said is just fiction with no actual ground in science. Again you should be cynical about everything, nothing is 100% reliable no matter what people make you think. You thinking that it's reliable makes you the same as people 2000 years ago who believed something to be real because others said so.

>I said it's universally recognized religion
Are you the universe? No? Then you can't make that statement.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429246
Mamizou probably has testicles, does that make her a guy?

[proREMIRIAt Elite Force Comman(...) !rSDMROXTB. No.]

Character Study:
>Toyosatomimi no Miko (豊聡耳　神子)
- Not your typical zombie shemale
- Vulgar
- Just look at her 2 right hands!

[Anonymous No.]

>>12430745
>2 right hands

Hahaha

[Anonymous No.]

>>12430742
No, Mamizou just has a cock

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429194
>>12429227
>>12429246
>>12429264
>>12429291
Who was talking about Unzan being genderless? His profile directly states he's a guy.
>雲山は、雲で出来た入道である。頑固親父で無口だが、根は優しい。曲がったことが嫌いで、正々堂々としている者を好む。
>頑固親父

[Anonymous No.]

>>12429304
People don't magically become gay because the other gender is rare.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12432372
danmaku rules are for girls, it's unmanly to participate in them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12435497
But the fighting games are pretty manly

[Anonymous No.]

>>12432372
/b/

[Anonymous No.]

This thread need some more Miko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12438983
Taishi-sama a best

[Anonymous No.]

>>12439665
Too lewd.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12439744
Miko must be sexualized

[Anonymous No.]

>>12439764
They could at least give her something to hide behind.

[Kilgamayan !2BklmILFiE No.]

>>12430001
>And judging from the conversation, their personalities seems to be similiar, too.

Miko and Byakuren are practically the same person. I suspect the real reason they're at odds so much is a combination of their differing ideologies and how much of themselves they're ashamed to see in the other.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12440134
How are Miko and Byakuren the same person?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12440138
Don't leave me hanging, man.

I'm the apolitical religion dude earlier, and I'm interested to hear this Miko/Byakuren's compare and contrast.

I see myself on Kanako's third position "religion might be good for spiritual growth" rather than either of them, but it's good to see discussion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12440138
Both used the cover of buddhism to achieve their immediate goals, while secretly employing heretical methods to attain immortality. Both got sealed up for over a millenium. Both didn't give up on their political goals upon arriving to Gensokyo and quickly amassed a huge amount of followers. Etc, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12440149
Some of these are wrong though.
Miko used buddhism as a front true, but Byakuren actually believes in buddhism teaching to the point where we see even youkai's own nature can be salvaged, she does use black magic though.

Byakuren got sealed and got stuck in Makai. Miko sleeps, his physical is dead then "he" chooses a female form when he wakes up.

And only Byakuren quickly amass a huge amount of followers and follow her youkai-human harmony plan, Miko does not have any new follower (she even cuts ties with her teacher, Seiga), and Miko readily gives up her agenda of being the suitable ruler of Gensokyo seeing that Gensokyo doesn't need it right now. Instead, she creates her own dimension and chills in there.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>12440162
>Miko does not have any new follower

[Anonymous No.]

>>12440192
Well, technically she doesn't amass them, they just come to her, and she did say she offer asylum against youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12440146
I think Byakuren also think the same. That's why she invites youkai to learn buddhism so they can gain spiritual growth and insist that it's the best for every creature.
But Miko think it's ridiculous, and the only thing she'd do is leading humans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12440190
Miko pls

[Anonymous No.]

Vive l'Empereur

[Anonymous No.]

Gaius of Touhou

[Anonymous No.]

>>12443285
What?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12440637
The problem is Byakuren uses buddhism, which Miko considers a joke.
Religions are all important for those three, the break-off is which religion.
Faith is essential for Kanako's power, she can change her dominance as long as people keep believe her to be some kind of god.
Byakuren believes in harmony though buddhist teaching.
Miko chooses taoism to defy natural laws and orders so she can surpass normal humans.

[Anonymous No.]

How popular was Taoism in Japan? I thought it was a Chinese thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12443972
Buddhism and taoism/chinese folk religion intermixed with Shinto a lot.

You can notice that Reimu's Yin Yang orb is a taoist symbol and not actually a shinto one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12444001
But would any people in old Japan call themselves Taoist?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12444030
Not sure of that, maybe they would just call themselves priests.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12444046
I mean would they identify as being part o the Taoist faith.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12446102
Ah yes, they would, there are taoist temples in Japan after all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism_in_Japan

[Anonymous No.]

>>12439764
You'll make her uncomfortable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12440192
>you will never follow miko forever
feels bad mane

[Anonymous No.]

>>12446414
Yeah.

[Anonymous No.]

we must not falter for the crown prince!

[Anonymous No.]

>>12439764
Are you sure about that?