Opinions about this? Somebody read it? Ordered it just a minute ago. Is Patrick a bro or a faggot?

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Anonymous Sun Jun 22 14:24:01 2014 No.12215483 [Reply] [Original]

Opinions about this? Somebody read it? Ordered it just a minute ago. Is Patrick a bro or a faggot?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 22 14:26:18 2014 No.12215486 Hes obviously a faggot. just read the title dude

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 22 14:29:13 2014 No.12215487 >Moé

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 22 14:31:45 2014 No.12215489 File: 170 KB, 550x406, 1276624040453.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] For anyone who cares, it's written by this guy

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 22 14:37:53 2014 No.12215497 >>12215483 Where's the gaming and manga? All I see is anime and Miku.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 22 14:42:11 2014 No.12215503 He put strike witches on the cover, he's a good guy in my book.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 22 14:45:29 2014 No.12215506 >>12215483 You will be the first and likely the only person here to read this. You are welcome to share your opinion once you do.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 22 14:48:44 2014 No.12215511 I've got such a backlog of books, and I already am feeling like I should reread Journey to the End of the Night and Death on the Installment Plan again. Now way I can add another thing to the pile.

Anonymous Sun Jun 22 14:53:16 2014 No.12215520

>>12215483
>>12215489
I've been thinking about exploiting the stupidity of otakus too for a long time and do something like this.

Guess I'll have to hurry before this guy gets all the retardmoney.
Then again, barely anyone cares about books anymore, much less these kind of books.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 22 15:03:12 2014 No.12215525 very good read op, i learned a lot about anime with that book ^^

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 22 15:31:10 2014 No.12215560 File: 19 KB, 190x247, 0818-bks-BTB-articleInline.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Any book about Japanese subculture written by a Western normalfag Also >Moé

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 22 15:46:17 2014 No.12215586 File: 2.81 MB, 2500x2500, 1379091381501.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12215560

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 22 15:55:48 2014 No.12215614 http://neojaponisme.com/2012/05/24/an-interview-with-patrick-w-galbraith-on-otaku-culture-part-two/ idk m8

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 22 16:32:53 2014 No.12215658 File: 85 KB, 1280x720, 1390702605506.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] jewish normaboos will always attempt to cash in on the otaku industry

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 24 01:57:13 2014 No.12218752 >>12215658 I thought the jews feared the samurai.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 24 13:14:16 2014 No.12219854 >>12215483 Some of the interviews were ok but most of them were just bad. It's somewhat interesting but I wouldn't really recommend it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 24 13:40:55 2014 No.12219897 File: 77 KB, 500x363, 1247250122-patrickwgalbraith.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] By the looks of things, he's a complete faggot

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 24 15:43:15 2014 No.12220063 >>12219897 Fortunately very little of the book is his work. It's almost all interviews. His questions are cringe-worthy though.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 24 16:08:54 2014 No.12220094 >>12215503 You should get his book to find out if you're a good guy in his.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 24 16:13:02 2014 No.12220098 >>12219897 Still a bigger success than me.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 24 16:19:45 2014 No.12220113 >>12219897 >>12215489 I knew I had seen that gaijin face somewhere before. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hji3DtKm4Vo&feature=kp He's full of spaghetti, so he's the real otaku deal.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 24 16:41:57 2014 No.12220153 >>12215489 Is that Will Ferrell?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 24 16:44:08 2014 No.12220155 >>12215489 Japanese people expect Westerners to act like circus attractions. If you try to integrate and act like a real Japanese person it's very 気持ち悪い.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 24 16:46:40 2014 No.12220159 >>12220155 No shit, Sherlock. It's as bad as crackers trying to act Black. It's maximum cringe. White people are at their best when they're hostile to other cultures.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 24 17:43:45 2014 No.12220314 >>12220155 He is a self published author. Hopefully he won't see any income. >>12220159 Unless you are mexican. Then they expect you to know wrestling, stoic and no nonsense. For some reason.

Anonymous Tue Jun 24 17:50:11 2014 No.12220319

>>12215483
I avoid otaku culture books (esp. "guides") written by foreigners. They hardly ever know what they're talking about and usually only frame it from a foreign perspective that makes the material come off as a tourist novelty rather than a real, complex subculture.

That said I've read his essay on otaku fantasy and escapism and found it interesting. Idk about that book, but he is in touch with it deeper than most I've seen.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 24 18:15:11 2014 No.12220365 >>12220319 These and you get blatant demonization of the culture written by PC-obsessed expats. I've long since given up trying find a middle of the road POV from outsiders.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 25 06:29:16 2014 No.12221418 >>12215483 Does it contains the conspiracy theory that Moe is going to mind control all man to stop reproducing thus bringing mankind into its demise? No? Then fuck off, this book sucks.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 25 06:32:05 2014 No.12221421 >>12221418 When you capitalize moe that that it makes it look even more like a name.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 25 06:33:08 2014 No.12221423 >>12221421 *like that. Damn I'm stupid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 25 06:40:38 2014 No.12221433 >>12219897 >is a familiar face in Akihabara >Ph.D. candidate researching Otaku *weeb

Anonymous Wed Jun 25 09:31:45 2014 No.12221697

Publishing a book about moe so long after the age of its relevance is fucking retarded. moe has been definitely labeled like a deadly sickness for both fiction industry and its audience, what's even of this fucking anachronism?
>familiar face in akihabara
>akihabara
>2014
>akihabara has been a tourist trap for almost ten years now
these guys are literally the worst. no, not the scam artists that did this book, the nimrods that are going to read it

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 25 09:33:32 2014 No.12221702 >>12221697 *even the point

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 25 11:18:23 2014 No.12221851 >>12221697 >akihabara has been a tourist trap for almost ten years now So where's the actual local place to be, now?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 25 11:26:14 2014 No.12221862 >>12221851 Detroit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 25 11:32:19 2014 No.12221875 >>12221862 Niggers are the new ching-chongs???

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 25 11:43:31 2014 No.12221900 It's hardly a topic to write a book about.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 25 11:49:12 2014 No.12221906 >>12221423 Yes you are

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 25 11:52:09 2014 No.12221910 >>12221862 I do not wish to visit the third world.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 25 12:49:05 2014 No.12222008 >>12220153 patric w.galbirth accordingly the prev. poster

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 26 15:48:42 2014 No.12224827 >>12219897 Has U of Tokyo always given bullshit degrees like this?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 26 15:55:26 2014 No.12224836 >>12219897 I wonder if he has a Ph.D. in floor shitting and onaholes too.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 26 15:58:13 2014 No.12224838 >>12220319 >escapism No such thing.

Anonymous Thu Jun 26 16:12:39 2014 No.12224863

>>12221851
Shibuya in theory, due to most economic activities pandering to young people, but the "otaku ghetto" disappeared at the end of nineties when doujin shops started to make money and everything became international public knowledge (thanks again evangelion).
the lost Akihabara like atlantis sinked in the abyss of internet, and futaba, 2chan and hidden webrings are what remains of it.
almost nothing. "otaku culture" dissolved like a flower spreading pollen into the world. all the world has become a little bit otaku culture

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 26 16:13:18 2014 No.12224866 >>12224827 Universities have always given sociology degrees.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 26 19:52:53 2014 No.12225314 >>12215483 >buying a book >about someone's opinions >about anime wow woah so poor choices many bad opinion whew

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 26 21:19:54 2014 No.12225469 >>12225314 e/b/in doge meem m8 xD

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 26 22:02:30 2014 No.12225552 >>12221851 nakano broadway!

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 26 23:42:45 2014 No.12225747 File: 62 KB, 220x212, www44.atwiki.jp.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12215483 >insider's look at the world of manga >written by Scottish immigrant

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:01:12 2014 No.12225790 >>12219897 I thought University of Tokyo was supposed to be good. Have my anime and manga lied to me?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:03:47 2014 No.12225797 >>12224863 I like to believe that otaku culture still exists in real life in little hidden away groups of people that I will never be able to join. It's sad, but it's less sad than thinking that it's completely gone.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:09:50 2014 No.12225812 >>12221697 Here comes Colony drop guys.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:12:43 2014 No.12225819 >>12225797 What exactly do you expect otaku culture to be?

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:17:09 2014 No.12225828

>>12225819
Something similar to like in Otaku no Video but less public or more secluded.

Something that has a focus on creation as well as consumption.

Most importantly, something comprised of people who are truly into what they're into. This is the part that's pretty hard to find.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:22:18 2014 No.12225844 >>12225828 >Something similar to like in Otaku no Video On another why do Modern ota not like pure SF as much like their predecessors?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:25:00 2014 No.12225851 >>12225844 What makes SF pure? And non-SF otaku have been around for a while.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:27:23 2014 No.12225852 >>12225851 >And non-SF otaku have been around for a while. How long?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:29:19 2014 No.12225854 >>12225828 So does your average doujinshi convention not qualify?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:31:23 2014 No.12225858 >>12225852 Since before Otaku no Video, certainly; they even come up in it. >>12225854 That managed to fulfill one of the three lines I wrote, certainly.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:33:11 2014 No.12225861

>>12225828
>Most importantly, something comprised of people who are truly into what they're into. This is the part that's pretty hard to find.

It's really not that hard to find. There's little hidden rings of just about any type of otaku culture you can think of.

Utatane is a great example of how the real Jap otakus have massive media hoards of shit they share only with each other to complete their collection. There are all sorts of private filesharing rings for anything otaku-related, whether it be for scans, doujin music, manga translations (private LJ pages), etc.

The real question is not if you can find them, but if they actually give a shit about what you can contribute or not. Have something to contribute and you'll find yourself a group of people who are "truly into what they're into".

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:34:08 2014 No.12225864 >>12225851 >What makes SF pure? I mean that SF seemed more important to older otaku.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:35:24 2014 No.12225869 >>12225858 Why do you need it to be secluded? How is a hundred people working on secondary creations in their own homes and not showing them to anyone "more otaku" than meeting up at some small dedicated convention for X series and sharing it?

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:38:56 2014 No.12225876

>>12225861
>in real life

And it takes more than having something to contribute to find such groups of people. It's not as if you translate some doujinshi that everybody likes and suddenly you know a bunch of new people online. I'm aware of what you're talking about with filesharing and stuff like that, but it's far from what I was talking about.

>>12225869
It's not, I didn't say ``hikikomori only''. I meant smaller groups as opposed to large ones aren't necessarily bad but tend to become exactly what I'm not talking about.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:40:10 2014 No.12225880 >>12225876 Sorry, I meant that large groups become what I'm not talking about.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:41:20 2014 No.12225883 >>12225864 Anime happened.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:46:22 2014 No.12225887 >>12225883 >Anime happened. Be specific. Older anime was like 99% SF Mecha.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:49:54 2014 No.12225893 >>12225887 And look at how it is now!

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 00:58:52 2014 No.12225905

>>12225876
Sorry if I made it sound that simple, but yes, you're right. You won't suddenly make the right friends, but you'll eventually be pushed in the right direction because of your contributions.

In any case, this isn't what you wanted to talk about.

>in real life
These days, you're more likely to meet people online with those kind of interests first, then arrange a real-life meet-up later if things go well.

It's much more likely to find someone online who's "truly into what they're into" than anyone near your physical vicinity, and with something like otaku culture, those people typically won't be terribly open to meeting random strangers. The Internet makes that process easier.

Private filesharing rings, or at least, filesharing friendly communities, are one way to find people who share your interests (in my opinion, it's one of the easiest ways, given how many people who are into all types of otaku culture pirate their stuff). Obviously, there's many other ways, like lurking IRC channels, browsing imageboards and forums. But eventually you'll have to join or create your own private group of friends who are into that stuff, because small groups as you said before, are ideal for this type of thing.

Sure, you might meet people like this at some kind of convention, but I think it's much more likely you'll find more similarly dedicated people on the web.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 01:00:15 2014 No.12225907 >>12225887 He might actually have a bit of a point. In the past, people didn't just watch anime, they also read sci-fi novels / watched sci-fi non-anime non-toku shows, even Western ones.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 01:03:51 2014 No.12225914

>>12225905
Not that guy, but if you can just join a private filesharing ring it's not a private filesharing ring, forums aren't necessarily terrible but you're not about to find one that isn't just from looking around on the "outside", imageboards aren't good for making personal connections, and IRC is impenetrable unless you're very charismatic (or lucky).

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 01:33:25 2014 No.12225956 >>12225914 so you're saying in order to get otaku friends I either need enough talent to contribute something or enough charisma to force myself in? but that's the same reason I can't get ordinary friends.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 01:58:26 2014 No.12225984 >>12225852 Since at least the 80s. I think at that point, concurrent with much of SF was traditional Japanese culture/mythology, bishoujo, idols, and loli.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 02:02:31 2014 No.12225994 >>12225984 Ah also live action stuff like tokusatsu and horror. Otaku culture has many niches, though SF is one of the most predominant ones.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 02:05:16 2014 No.12226002 >>12225984 >>12225994 Where did all these school life Light Novel works become big?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 02:09:18 2014 No.12226013 >>12226002 90s into the 2000s, especially with Haruhi I would say. Though they've been around for a while, I think most were SF oriented until then.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 02:12:44 2014 No.12226021 >>12226013 Why are they so popular? Why do modern ota love them so much and are they starting to die out?

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 02:20:37 2014 No.12226035

>>12226021
They give ota the chance to experience a past they never had and they're often infused with the signs and conventions of modern otaku culture so it's easy to engage with. This is pretty much true of all contemporary ota media.

SF was all about looking forward to the future. Takashi Murakami's Little Boy has a few essays dedicated to the topic. Japan was in a pretty remarkable period of recovery during the 60s and 70s and while many of the shows explored themes of war, they always ended hopeful. Young would-be otaku were exposed to the symbols of the future with the Expo 70--robots, space travel, peace, hope, etc. Then they entered a period of heavy consumerism in the 80s and this is when we see the explosion of kawaii--things start falling apart. The 90s were marked with depression and cynicism both financially and culturally--otaku get a really bad name at this point thanks to Miyazaki and Aum Shinrikyo. I think the trend today is ultimately at attempt at giving back what was lost in the 90s--there's nothing to look forward to anymore, people want their youth back. At least, that's what I think.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 02:27:22 2014 No.12226041

>>12226035
>At least, that's what I think.

Stop being so modest., that was well put. I've hard the same claim before, but I can't remember where. [Might have been colony drop]

The whole pessimism and the rise of mindless escapism where there's no real positive message or inspiration. Just mindless consumption because reality is too hard to face.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 02:38:56 2014 No.12226057

>>12226041
>The whole pessimism and the rise of mindless escapism where there's no real positive message or inspiration. Just mindless consumption because reality is too hard to face.
I wouldn't say there aren't any positive messages anymore, but they're lost in the saturation of media around us. Shows today seem to be saying "be yourself," and while it's trite to a westerner, and it could be self-serving ota thinking, but I think it's a powerful statement to the Japanese collectivist mentality. If we view Eva as Anno's struggle with the otaku's place in a society that doesn't want them, then today's series are telling them that it's okay to be "different" (top of the head: Chuunibyou, Zvezda, Oreimo, Otaku no Musume). I'm not sure what this ultimately means when "otaku" has become as mainstream as it is, but I think it counts for something, if only that it means that people are starting to accept them and that they should accept themselves.

Or you could see it as a reflection of industry's growth and how hard it's trying to put the squeeze on a population with disposable income, but that's not really anything new. And if that were really the case, I don't think we'd see such a thriving doujin scene. At any rate, escapism isn't really new when it comes to otaku, it just takes different forms. We shouldn't forget that we've gone through 4 or so generations of otaku and many are well into middle-age--at some point we start looking back, you feel this with series like Urusei Yatsura and the "endless high school days" kind of stories.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:00:58 2014 No.12226101

>>12226041
>escapism
>no real positive message

Escapism is all about positive messages (unless you're a disenchanted youth escaping into grimdark imagery from a Huxleyan society, but this is exactly what Japan seems to have ditched). What makes them not "real" in your eyes?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:05:33 2014 No.12226107 >>12226101 >Escapism is all about positive messages I'll play devils advocate here. What positive messages can you refer in the modern trend of shows otaku love?

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:15:06 2014 No.12226134

>>12226101
>What makes them not "real" in your eyes?
Otaku worlds and the real world are nothing alike. It's impossibly comfortable, resolutions impossibly perfect. That's what makes for effective escapism, but it would be silly to think it's "real." It's effective precisely because it isn't real.

>>12226107
>What positive messages can you refer in the modern trend of shows otaku love?
Individuality, mono no aware, youth, friendship, family. You know, taking it easy. Despite otaku growing older, they still love the same childish themes, albeit with a more nostalgic perspective perhaps.

It seems the shows are getting increasingly self-referential, as well, like they're parodying themselves. The more denpa-kei shows I can't really see anything positive in other than that they're fun, but most seem to be gag-oriented anyway. Not everything needs to have a "message," you know. In the end, it's bottom-of-the-barrel entertainment.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:20:03 2014 No.12226141

>>12226134
>Individuality, mono no aware, youth, friendship, family. You know, taking it easy.

I mean't new messages. Couldn't you have had most of those themes back in the heyday of SF?

I dunno, it just seems nostalgic and melancholic. I rather see ideal speculative worlds and robots.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:20:40 2014 No.12226142 >>12226107 How current do you want? I'm a bit behind on the last few year's trends. But the mid-00 series that made me a "weeb" were all about people being good, life being beautiful and how you should cherish every little thing in it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:22:39 2014 No.12226144 >>12226142 Not the same guy, but that sounds like something someone with a terminal illness would say.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:24:03 2014 No.12226148 >>12226144 Life is a terminal illness.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:31:13 2014 No.12226157

>>12226141
>I mean't new messages. Couldn't you have had most of those themes back in the heyday of SF?
Well, I would say that's otaku being otaku. I've always been of the viewpoint that the themes themselves don't change, only the style, stories, and perspectives. These are the things they love so they keep coming back to them. The people who make the stuff are also the people who used to watch/read it, after all.

>it just seems nostalgic and melancholic.
No mistake there. It IS more nostalgic and melancholic. This is probably because they're only getting older and that ideal youth only grows more and more distant. This is why it's escapism.

http://heiseidemocracy.com/2005/12/07/the-moe-image/

At the very bottom of that article is a note about "narrative stasis." Otaku exist in a peculiar duality of pain and joy. I think we continue to engage in otaku works because we want these worlds to last forever. We won't see those hopeful SF stories of the 60s and 70s anymore because Japan is out of that post-war slump. We are already living the future and it kind of sucks.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:36:40 2014 No.12226162

>>12226157
>At the very bottom of that article is a note about "narrative stasis." Otaku exist in a peculiar duality of pain and joy. I think we continue to engage in otaku works because we want these worlds to last forever. We won't see those hopeful SF stories of the 60s and 70s anymore because Japan is out of that post-war slump. We are already living the future and it kind of sucks.

Plus there's the lost decade, Aum Shinrikyo, etc. The optimism is gone. So, the stories gravitate more towards: Nostalgia [school life] and Cute non threatening things [Kawaii].

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:43:39 2014 No.12226172

>>12226162
Yes, exactly. Anime now is all about introspection and has been since the 90s or so. The biggest struggle is not about Japan as a nation, but as that of individual.

>Plus there's the lost decade, Aum Shinrikyo, etc. The optimism is gone.
I think we're climbing out of that, though. It was probably most obvious with Eva and post-Eva shows, but today it's about enjoying the relative peace. Greater acceptance of otaku by the mainstream led to this explosion of moe-centric series in the mid 2000s. I think nowadays, it's a lot more denpa-kei and game-like. Moe is so involved now that even the mainstream probably wouldn't get it, and a lot of these series come off as a "spot the reference!" kind of shtick.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:44:43 2014 No.12226177

How come there are so few moe fans who take it seriously enough to get surgery and grow their hair out, get really good at fashion, makeup, voice, etc. and try to become moe themselves?

I dunno how people can be happy with such an obsession while looking shit themselves, or be ok with making friends like that.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:48:35 2014 No.12226185 File: 22 KB, 325x327, 1403738295379.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12215483 >written by a normalfag

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:54:42 2014 No.12226196 >>12226177 >try to become moe themselves? No 3D moe, anon. That's basic! The whole appeal is that the moe girl likes you despite you being an ugly, pathetic person. Otaku like being ダメ.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 03:57:53 2014 No.12226202 >>12226177 The only kind of moe that actual people can pull off is denpa, but that requires you to be actually cute and not a man trying and failing to be cute.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:00:26 2014 No.12226208 >>12226196 I might be damedame, but that doesn't mean I like it. I prefer to pretend to be a handsome and resourceful guy who could amass a harem through his inherent charm.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:00:35 2014 No.12226209 >>12226185 Both memes in your post originate from the most retarded and normalfag ridden boards on 4chan. Oh, the irony.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:06:30 2014 No.12226220 >>12226209 I only see one meme. Are you one of those autists who think that using the quoting function for descriptive paraphrasing is a meme?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:09:26 2014 No.12226228 >>12226220 "Descriptive paraphrasing" That's a nice way to call your "eBik Maymay arrows".

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:10:37 2014 No.12226231 >>12226220 >>12226228 Can we strangle this inevitably retarded discussion right now and call it a "practice"?

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:11:02 2014 No.12226236

>>12226208
>I prefer to pretend to be a handsome and resourceful guy who could amass a harem through his inherent charm.
Well, I'm sure given the chance most people would like that, but a lot of otaku take this perverse pleasure in being disgusting, unsightly, and unsociable. I think they're masochists at heart. It's why they're proud of their esoteric knowledge about meaningless things, it's why they flaunt eroge and ecchi figures, it's why they're vocal about loli manga and shit. Even here there's a culture that glorifies (if only half-jokingly) being floorshitting

It's silly to self-label as otaku due to its connotations, but those who have earned the title wear it as a badge of pride. neets and hikkikomori, mocking normal people. There's solidarity in being so damedame.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:12:07 2014 No.12226239 >>12226236 *floorshitting "truneets"

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:13:13 2014 No.12226241

>>12226172
>I think we're climbing out of that, though.

What are you basing this on? The economy has gotten worst not better and it's economical reasons that have caused 3rd gen ota to be what they are. Couple that with the herbivore males and so forth.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:23:21 2014 No.12226253 So otaku culture is fucked until WWIII?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:24:24 2014 No.12226256 >>12226253 Only if you're someone who can't just sit back and enjoy the girls.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:25:15 2014 No.12226258

>>12226253
>So otaku culture is fucked until WWIII?

I think war with China will effect it in many interesting ways. So, long as they win. Otaku need a ray of light to raise their spirits in the real world and can't just be 2-D.

>>12226256
I love the girls, but my balls hurt from fapping.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:26:24 2014 No.12226260 >>12226256 There's a difference between otaku media and otaku culture, dweeblord

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:28:11 2014 No.12226264 >>12226258 Japan is going to war with China?

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:28:59 2014 No.12226265 [DELETED]

>>12226260
I only really care about the culture other than what it produces, since due to my lack of being in Japan I'm not going to get to participate in the culture anytime soon.

I mean, I'd like to contribute what I could, but short of sending money and making really shitty content there's nothing I can do.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:30:16 2014 No.12226268

>>12226260
I only really care about the culture insofar as what it produces, since due to my lack of being in Japan I'm not going to get to participate in the culture anytime soon.

I mean, I'd like to contribute what I could, but short of sending money and making really shitty content there's nothing I can do.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:30:37 2014 No.12226269 >>12226265 Otaku culture isn't just in Japan, turbonerd.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:31:41 2014 No.12226271 >>12226269 >Otaku culture isn't just in Japan, turbonerd. Yes, it is.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:32:17 2014 No.12226272 >>12226269 Maybe there's stuff outside, but I don't know where to find out.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:33:04 2014 No.12226275 >>12226264 Eventually. Japan is in a bad neighborhood geopolitically.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:34:06 2014 No.12226278 >>12226271 He mean't goods dumb dumb.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:35:01 2014 No.12226279 >>12226271 Otaku culture isn't just an exclusive group of Japanese men staying up late and watching anime, you know.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:35:05 2014 No.12226280

>>12226241
>What are you basing this on?
Perception of otaku in the 2000s.It went from "weird" to "hated" to currently a mainstream phenomenon.

While I'm sure the depression of the 90s helped set the tone, I think what hurt more were Aum Shinrikyo and Miyazaki since they essentially established otaku as absolute scum cultists/pedophiles/murderers. Do the stories of the 90s inform us of economic struggle, or interpersonal struggle as a result of this vilification? I've always felt it was the latter thanks to Eva.

>The economy has gotten worst
I thought it got significantly better out of the 90s? Lately it's been dipping here and there, but I thought it was going pretty strong as of late, I recall USD-JPY dipped below 1-100 for a little while. I don't follow financial stuff at all.

>Couple that with the herbivore males and so forth.
Well this is probably a result of the media itself. I don't think these types precede it.

I don't think it's hopeless. The stories today are usually about characters (increasingly otaku themselves) getting together and overcoming whatever, accepting themselves, making friends, etc. It's not about de-radiating the world anymore, but it's about the little things. Like Otaku no Musume's whole deal was about cross-generations and how an otaku could somehow be a good father. You'll get a dose of cynicism with things like NHK (esp. the novel) and SZS, but I think we've always had works like that (Gundam, Ideon).

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:38:09 2014 No.12226281 >>12226279 You're talking about a niche subculture (filled with its own niches) within an already foreign culture. Otaku culture is more than the works produced by it. At best, most of us are secondaries.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:40:39 2014 No.12226286 >>12226281 >Otaku culture is more than the works produced by it. Duh? I don't even know what the hell you're on about.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:40:42 2014 No.12226287

>>12226280
>Perception of otaku in the 2000s.It went from "weird" to "hated" to currently a mainstream phenomenon.

Because sponsors saw that they could make alot of money out of ota. It's marketing scheme, that's why shit like Densha Otoko exists

.
>While I'm sure the depression of the 90s helped set the tone, I think what hurt more were Aum Shinrikyo and Miyazaki since they essentially established otaku as absolute scum cultists/pedophiles/murderers. Do the stories of the 90s inform us of economic struggle, or interpersonal struggle as a result of this vilification? I've always felt it was the latter thanks to Eva.

You're talking about otaku culture from the onset. I'm talking about the Niwaka phenomenon and the sudden influx of people becoming otaku since the third generation. That's strictly a reaction to the economy.

>I thought it got significantly better out of the 90s? Lately it's been dipping here and there, but I thought it was going pretty strong as of late, I recall USD-JPY dipped below 1-100 for a little while. I don't follow financial stuff at all.

In terms of job prospects and employment most young men are temp workers. That's a blow out from the 80's business system.

>Well this is probably a result of the media itself. I don't think these types precede it.

Cart before the horse, though. The media reflects the trends in the society and not the other way around. Herbivore men is also because of the economy.

Cont.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:41:38 2014 No.12226289 >>12226231 Not until we strange every /b/tard who thinks "meme" means "a funny image". >>12226269 Your anime conventions are otaku culture about as much as medieval fairs are medieval culture.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:41:43 2014 No.12226290 >>12226279 I don't know where you're going with this, but Otaku culture is exclusively a culture in Japan.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:42:31 2014 No.12226293 >>12226289 Just stop talking to him unless he actually bothers to clarify what he means, at this point he's just here to shit on people with pithy one liners and no explanation.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:44:34 2014 No.12226301

>>12226280
>I don't think it's hopeless. The stories today are usually about characters (increasingly otaku themselves) getting together and overcoming whatever, accepting themselves, making friends, etc. It's not about de-radiating the world anymore, but it's about the little things. Like Otaku no Musume's whole deal was about cross-generations and how an otaku could somehow be a good father. You'll get a dose of cynicism with things like NHK (esp. the novel) and SZS, but I think we've always had works like that (Gundam, Ideon).

Actually, most of the stories seem to be school oriented fanfare that appeals to the "Golden Age" of most of the people watching it. The positive messages at best seem to be a way to cheer you up. It's not speculative fiction type shows older ota watch which seemed to be a promise for a new tomorrow and other forward looking ideas.

Besides, none of these themes require the types of shows that are popular now anyway.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:47:33 2014 No.12226310

What is the otaku in otaku culture, anyway?

Is it the people who watch anime obsessively? The people who watch trains obsessively? The people who obsessively mess with electronics and radios? The people who make their own figures? The people who spend all day on 2ch? The people who cosplay at Comiket? The people who read a lot? The people who are into competition mahjong? The people who play games all day? The directors and animators and so forth who create anime? The mangaka?

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:50:34 2014 No.12226315

>>12226310

There's no agree'd standard on who is or who isn't an otaku in japan. 3rd gen otaku are different from 1st gen and so. Alot of times they aren't considered Otaku. But I think that's an anachronism from back when being an otaku was viewed much more negatively.

My 2cents.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:52:37 2014 No.12226319

>>12226315
Vague answers like this are starting to piss me off.

There are plenty of people in this thread saying things about otaku culture. If they can't even say what they mean by this, everything they've said has no meaning.

And doesn't pointing to specific anime/manga/games as proof of something regarding otaku culture indicate that you're talking about the creators rather than the consumers? Especially when people bring up some obscure thing nobody's heard of as their proof that things are the way they are.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:56:14 2014 No.12226323

>>12226319
>There are plenty of people in this thread saying things about otaku culture. If they can't even say what they mean by this, everything they've said has no meaning.
There's a difference between asking what someone means by something and asking what something objectively means.

If you want someone to qualify their statements by offering their own definitions for the words they use, then ask them directly. The existence of a general consensus of the meaning of a word doesn't invalidate the statements of anyone using that word.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:57:16 2014 No.12226324

>>12226319

That answer was vague.

Let me try again:

What otaku are now is different then what Otaku were because back then the sub-culture was far more separated from the mainstream.

But, in modern times Otaku culture has become part of mainstream culture in a way it couldn't have been 20 years ago. So, people from the older era see being an Otaku differently than people from the modern era. Furthermore, alot of modern otaku bring with them the baggage of modern Japanese life in a way older otaku didn't. The system wasn't broken back when people like Okada were young. So, "What is an Otaku" depends on how old are you really.

Better?

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:58:15 2014 No.12226325

>>12226323
>There's a difference between asking what someone means by something and asking what something objectively means.
Why the hell would I ask what something objectively means? For most words, that's a pointless question.

But if people just reference otaku and otaku culture without clarifying anything, then there should be some sort of goto assumption for what they mean, otherwise what they said was as good as mindless blather.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:59:20 2014 No.12226328

>>12226319
Last generation's consumers became this generation's creators. If it hasn't been explicitly mentioned, it's because it's a rather trivial observation.

Nobody's saying they're the only otaku, but the assumption that their works are representative of the mindset of otaku as a whole is natural.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 04:59:52 2014 No.12226331 >>12226324 That doesn't give me an inkling as to what the hell any of you guys mean when you say ``otaku'' or ``otaku culture''.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:00:43 2014 No.12226333 >>12226328 It's pretty far from obvious everybody was using them as the representative sample.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:01:20 2014 No.12226336

>>12226287
>Because sponsors saw that they could make alot of money out of ota. It's marketing scheme, that's why shit like Densha Otoko exists
Well yes, but mainstream acceptance is a forward step for those that have been rejected all their lives.

>I'm talking about the Niwaka phenomenon and the sudden influx of people becoming otaku since the third generation. That's strictly a reaction to the economy.
Agreed. Niwaka are a result of industry growth, increased marketing and branding of "otaku culture." At this point, you can seemingly buy your way into it. At the same time, some otaku series remain esoteric--Pani Poni Dash and Nyaruko come to mind.

>In terms of job prospects and employment most young men are temp workers. That's a blow out from the 80's business system.
Oh yeah, I heard about that. As a whole though, they're doing better? The 80s system wasn't working anyhow.

>Actually, most of the stories seem to be school oriented fanfare that appeals to the "Golden Age" of most of the people watching it.
That's been going on for a while though. The most prominent example I can think of is Urusei Yatsura.

>The positive messages at best seem to be a way to cheer you up. It's not speculative fiction type shows older ota watch which seemed to be a promise for a new tomorrow and other forward looking ideas.
While really old SF was positive in outlook, we also had our share of more ambivalent or outright cynical series. After the 1st generation ota, I don't think anyone could maintain those hopes (20th Century Boys seems to play with this idea pretty well). From the 80s and beyond, it's all escapism.

>Besides, none of these themes require the types of shows that are popular now anyway.
Well, I've been saying that the themes are pretty much always going to be the same because otaku are drawn to them regardless of age. Stuff like friendship and getting stronger and growing up will never get old. Ota are children at heart.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:01:35 2014 No.12226337 >>12226328 It doesn't make sense to use the creators as the main example of what the fans are like at all.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:02:53 2014 No.12226339 I think of otaku as the Japanese subculture consisting of people who obsessively consume, produce, or collect media, or other things. That's my two cents, I wasn't participating in this discussion.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:03:54 2014 No.12226341 >>12226339 In that case, why is it different from the equivalent in other countries? If an otaku moves to Finland, is he no longer otaku? If a Mexican moves to Japan and does that, is he otaku?

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:06:07 2014 No.12226344

>>12226341
I'm not speaking for anyone but myself here, but I think of otaku of being uniquely Japanese because I feel like the otaku subculture is something that is a reaction against and is formed by Japanese culture.

Chavs and gopniks are alike, but I still think of them as uniquely British/Russian.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:09:01 2014 No.12226348

>>12226310
>>12226324
"Otaku" has not changed. It still refers to those who are obsessed with something to an unsociable degree. "Mainstream otaku" is not otaku in the proper sense since otaku, historically, is characterized by rejection. While it's form changes, the principles are the same.

Those guys that go to handshake events with cum all over their hands? Death threats to Touhou fan voice-actresses? That's otaku.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:09:25 2014 No.12226350

>>12226324
>>12226331
I think you're both missing the point. Wondering what being Otaku constitutes is like wondering what being a Japanese constitutes.

A Japanese is a citizen of the country of Japan, and an otaku is a Japanese who is a geek. And their culture is their culture. It's vast complex to describe, but it should never be complex to define, unless you're trying to define it first and assign people to it later, which is completely backwards.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:10:19 2014 No.12226352 >>12226348 Otaku makes the rejection, rejection doesn't make the otaku.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:10:56 2014 No.12226353 >>12226348 Those are the highly visible non-representative extremes of otaku. You might as well dump Miyazaki in there, since he had like ten thousand videos in his apartment.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:11:38 2014 No.12226354

>>12226336
>Well yes, but mainstream acceptance is a forward step for those that have been rejected all their lives.

But, you're assuming Otaku want mainstream acceptance. Do they?

>Agreed. Niwaka are a result of industry growth, increased marketing and branding of "otaku culture." At this point, you can seemingly buy your way into it. At the same time, some otaku series remain esoteric--Pani Poni Dash and Nyaruko come to mind.

It's also a result of failed system, that it serves as a therapeutic outlet for victims of the bubble bursting. That's what I'm claiming, niwaka are otaku too now [despite what kimoi otas claim] But, have become otas because of different circumstances. IT remains to be seen if the recession will mean they stop being ota or not.

>Oh yeah, I heard about that. As a whole though, they're doing better? The 80s system wasn't working anyhow.

No, nothings changed. That's why so many youths have given up and become ota hence the sudden otaku i.e. niwaka phenomenon.

>>12226336
>That's been going on for a while though. The most prominent example I can think of is Urusei Yatsura.

Not to the same extent. It's become as prolific as mecha was back in the days. Look at Otaku no video and the shows they watched. Furthermore, the nostalgia back then felt more like someone reminiscing rather than retreating which is what it feels like now.

>While really old SF was positive in outlook, we also had our share of more ambivalent or outright cynical series. After the 1st generation ota, I don't think anyone could maintain those hopes (20th Century Boys seems to play with this idea pretty well). From the 80s and beyond, it's all escapism.

Well, the bubble burst in the late 80's. But, I can't comment if Gen 1 ota are still as optimistic in these dire times. They're so low key and alot of works aimed at them have elements of Gen 3 ota culture on top of them. Strike Witches has tons of references to WW2, pilots and planes that Gunji Ota cld eat up.

Contd

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:12:21 2014 No.12226356

>>12226350
You're avoiding the question to a laughable degree.

What part of wondering who you guys are referring to when you say otaku is missing any point? If anything, if you're just saying stuff about this vague otherworldly notion of otaku and can't say who you're talking about, you're the one who's making the definition without assigning people to it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:13:40 2014 No.12226359 >>12226356 He explicitly said "an otaku is a Japanese who is a geek."

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:13:54 2014 No.12226360

>>12226336
>Well, I've been saying that the themes are pretty much always going to be the same because otaku are drawn to them regardless of age. Stuff like friendship and getting stronger and growing up will never get old. Ota are children at heart.

Yes, but we're talking about specific themes and how they vary. It's not enough to say it's all the same because. There are big differences that need to be addressed to see the bigger picture.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:15:01 2014 No.12226362 >>12226348 Why do people always equate Niwaka to poseurs? Why aren't they really Otaku? Sub-Cultures change you know.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:15:20 2014 No.12226364

>>12226359
I assumed he was joking since even if you restrict yourself to country you can't say anything meaningful about a geek culture. Since you can be a geek towards a trillion different things, there are a million distinct parts that don't interact with each other at all.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:16:17 2014 No.12226365 >>12226364 Otaku has nothing to do with being a "Geek". Please leave.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:16:52 2014 No.12226366

>>12226364
Well, yes. There are mecha otaku and train otaku and idol otaku and Western metal otaku, and most of them don't have very much to do with each other. But you can still talk about them.

Often people restrict themselves to the subset of Japanese geek culture that deals with visual media.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:16:57 2014 No.12226368 >>12226356 How is "a Japanese geek" in any way vague? And if you don't know who a geek is either, see >>12226348.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:17:40 2014 No.12226369 >>12226365 >Otaku has nothing to do with being a "Geek". Please leave. Please read the string of posts you're replying to before you press submit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:17:54 2014 No.12226370 >>12226365 You should at least take up your complaint with the person who first injected the term into the discussion. Retard.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:18:46 2014 No.12226374 >>12226368 Other than my other objections, since when did geek refer to that sort of person?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:18:58 2014 No.12226375 >>12226370 Then that persons a moron. >>12226369 Otaku isn't a "Japanese Geek". Why discuss something you clearly have no knowledge in.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:19:47 2014 No.12226376

>>12226375
>Why discuss something you clearly have no knowledge in.
It's great that you know so much than the rest of us, but unless you're willing to share your enlightenment with us this discussion is just going to involve the rest of us talking around you while you admire your own intelligence.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:19:47 2014 No.12226377 >>12226375 Please read the string of posts you're replying to before you press submit.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:21:15 2014 No.12226380

>>12226376
>It's great that you know so much than the rest of us, but unless you're willing to share your enlightenment with us this discussion is just going to involve the rest of us talking around you while you admire your own intelligence.

Why would I discuss anything with an uninitiated outsider? Thanks for outing yourself, by the way. I think you should go.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:22:08 2014 No.12226382 >>12226380 >Why would I discuss anything with an uninitiated outsider? You've decided that you're not going to discuss anything with anyone, which is fine. Suit yourself.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:22:17 2014 No.12226383 >>12226377 I apologize.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:23:07 2014 No.12226385 >>12226383 Shithead.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:23:39 2014 No.12226388 >>12226382 >You've decided that you're not going to discuss anything with anyone, which is fine. Suit yourself. Or rather, I've decided to discuss things with my fellow /jp/ posters. You've been outed now scram.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:24:15 2014 No.12226390 >>12226388 No, you're literally only talking to me, while not saying anything, trying to chase me out of a board I've been posting in for four years.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:24:41 2014 No.12226392 >>12226385 Make up sex?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:25:45 2014 No.12226396 >>12226390 4 years and you still sound like a newfriend? Jesus Christ, get out please. Not even the same guy.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:26:57 2014 No.12226400

>>12226374
>geek (plural geeks)
>1. (dated) A carnival performer specializing in bizarre and unappetizing behavior.
I once saw a geek bite the head off a live chicken.
>2. (colloquial) A person who is intensely interested in a particular field or hobby and usually asocial. Often used with an attributive noun.

To answer your question, since the #1 meaning fell out of use.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:27:33 2014 No.12226403

>>12226396
I've gotten along just fine with everyone all this time and I'm not about to listen to some random stranger now.

In your eagerness to save the board from outsiders you two have killed all the discussion that could be considered remotely on-topic. Congratulations.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:29:20 2014 No.12226412 >>12226403 Who cares? This discussion happens like all the fucking time. It's been answered to death. I don't know who you think you're fooling , but you're definitely not from /jp/, let alone 4 years.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:30:32 2014 No.12226414 >>12226400 You realize there's a difference between asocial and antisocial, right?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:31:10 2014 No.12226416 >>12226412 Don't you have a warosu to shit up together with your fellow tru/jp/ers, "oldfag"?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:31:33 2014 No.12226417 Please to be not responding to le troles.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:32:46 2014 No.12226418 >>12226416 Newlord confirmed, lock target and prepare to engage.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:32:57 2014 No.12226419 >>12219897 Please stick it in me

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:36:49 2014 No.12226426

>>12226354
>But, you're assuming Otaku want mainstream acceptance. Do they?
Well, I know Toshio Okada did. He started that "Otaku University" or whatever in an attempt to dispel myths and stuff. Anno has long been on a quest to connect with others through Eva.

With more current series gaining mainstream recognition, it's hard to tell because so much money is involved. I do, however, think everyone desires some degree of acceptance, though die-hard ota may work against the current trend.

>That's what I'm claiming, niwaka are otaku too now
Are they? It depends on how we define the term then, since:

>it serves as a therapeutic outlet for victims of the bubble bursting
This, and all socioeconomic problems are reflected in media in general. There's something that distinguishes otaku from the rest of the population that also suffers similar problems.

>Furthermore, the nostalgia back then felt more like someone reminiscing rather than retreating which is what it feels like now.
Well it's gotten more refined and we have the whole moe thing now as well. Greater prevalence is also driven by a much larger industry and changing tastes thanks to PCs and eroge and stuff. The internet has changed how we consume things (also leads to the "shallow" characteristic of niwaka I think). Otaku culture now is much more fragmented than it was before. As a result, I think escapism takes on new meaning.

> we're talking about specific themes
Can't really think of major differences other than a much greater emphasis on slice of life, moe, and school. Also pointlessness. Your "golden age" point certainly rings true. Maybe it has only gotten worse. Bigger industry could definitely stifle individual voices as well. I said earlier in the thread that we're living the future and there's really nothing to be hopeful for anymore. I had hoped that it wasn't the case, but considering the facts, that's just the way it is.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:37:02 2014 No.12226427 >>12226414 Well what that has to do with anything? Nobody ever claimed otaku are antisocial (except for the sensationalist media in the 90s, which is not the perspective we're discussing this from).

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:37:59 2014 No.12226430

>>12226412
We haven't had this discussion in months. And every time we do, self-proclaimed board police you make it degenerate into a hundred-post shitfight about some trivial point.

I don't give a shit about proving myself to you. Better people than the amazing shit that you are told me to leave when I was actually new here, and I'm not about to change my mind now.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:39:51 2014 No.12226435

>>12226427
What the hell do you mean nobody claimed otaku are antisocial? The guy you were pointing to for a definition of geek said otaku are antisocial. What the hell is asocial and not antisocial about
>Those guys that go to handshake events with cum all over their hands? Death threats to Touhou fan voice-actresses? That's otaku.
I feel like you've just jumped in on this conversation without reading what anybody is saying. Don't do that.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:41:15 2014 No.12226437 >>12226430 >We haven't had this discussion in months. I've seen this discussion about 10 times in the past 4 years. [I came in /jp/ the sametime you did] and I already "get it". You're either a troll or just a very stupid individual.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:42:27 2014 No.12226438 >>12226435 Yeah, my fault, I missed the second paragraph of his post. Sorry.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:44:08 2014 No.12226443 File: 183 KB, 475x500, 1398047505706.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12226438

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:44:09 2014 No.12226444

>>12226437
>10 times in the past 4 years
Discussing something two and a half times a year is not "doing it to death" and most of those have been shit anyway.

>I already "get it"
Get what? You haven't demonstrated shit in this thread. All you did was go off the rails on a me (>>12226370) and (>>12226369) for supposedly injecting the term "geek" into the discussion when neither of us were the first person who started using it in the first place.

Sorry I haven't yet "got" the /jp/ practice of trying to shit people off the board with no explanation through sheer persistence.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:46:48 2014 No.12226445

>>12226435
>>12226438
Not to mention the second paragraph of your post.

I'm the person you were originally talking with. And I shouldn't need to be saying that, since anonymous discussion is supposed to be between ideas, not individuals. Please don't make anyone do this again.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:46:51 2014 No.12226446 >>12226419 Ill stick it in you alright you danged queer

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:47:05 2014 No.12226447

>>12226353
>You might as well dump Miyazaki in there, since he had like ten thousand videos in his apartment.
He WAS otaku, though, albeit a legitimately crazy one. That case has added to the myth around them. Now, in a world where anyone can be otaku, these extreme types become representative if the term is to still mean anything. It has always been an "outsider" term. This is all just my opinion, of course. I don't consider myself otaku and I would never be able to speak for them.

If you actually want a definition, read something by some Japanese guy. Azuma's Database Animals is a good place to start.

>>12226362
That's the reaction any older member would have towards someone buying their way into the subculture. This is especially true of those who've faced the stigma of being otaku, i.e. "kimoi ota."

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:47:08 2014 No.12226448 >>12226444 Sorry, we're not the same person. That should say "me (>>12226370) and the other guy (>>12226369)."

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:50:10 2014 No.12226450

>>12226445
If you want your discussion to be between ideas try not to contradict yourself and say things that make no sense at all. When you make a big mistake like you did, of course the discussion isn't going to work at the level of ideas, since there are no ideas.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:51:09 2014 No.12226451

>>12226444
>Discussing something two and a half times a year is not "doing it to death" and most of those have been shit anyway.

What a crock of shit. Those debates tend to have the most lengthy discussions on /jp/. I'm sorry you're too stupid or too lazy to read them.

>Sorry I haven't yet "got" the /jp/ practice of trying to shit people off the board with no explanation through sheer persistence.

People don't explain to other people when they make a social faux pas. You either get it or get out. That's also not even me, I'm just calling you out on your blatant stupidity.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:53:39 2014 No.12226454

>>12226451
>Those debates tend to have the most lengthy discussions on /jp/. I'm sorry you're too stupid or too lazy to read them.
Yes, they're long, because somebody starts a stupid shitstorm about something fucking stupid around 50 posts in and it all goes to trash from there. Remember people argued for around four hundred posts about VIPPERs and idols? That was a shit thread.

>People don't explain to other people when they make a social faux pas.
I don't give a shit that I didn't conform to whatever posting standards you invented. If you have a problem with >>12226350's "faux pas", then go on, tell him he fucked up. The only mistake I've made is pointing out that you (or somebody else) was shitting on completely unrelated people.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:58:27 2014 No.12226458

>>12226426
>Well, I know Toshio Okada did. He started that "Otaku University" or whatever in an attempt to dispel myths and stuff. Anno has long been on a quest to connect with others through Eva.
>With more current series gaining mainstream recognition, it's hard to tell because so much money is involved. I do, however, think everyone desires some degree of acceptance, though die-hard ota may work against the current trend.

Good point, Okada does critisize ota for "ghettoizing themselves in one of his books. So, you have a point.

>Are they? It depends on how we define the term then, since:

I'll answer this point with my answer to your following point:

>This, and all socioeconomic problems are reflected in media in general. There's something that distinguishes otaku from the rest of the population that also suffers similar problems.

I've heard a theory that posits otaku as being oriented as an explanation. I think the difference between kimoi and niwaka ota are that the former would be otaku even when times are good vs the latter which is a reaction to the economic situation in Japan.

>Well it's gotten more refined and we have the whole moe thing now as well. Greater prevalence is also driven by a much larger industry and changing tastes thanks to PCs and eroge and stuff. The internet has changed how we consume things (also leads to the "shallow" characteristic of niwaka I think). Otaku culture now is much more fragmented than it was before. As a result, I think escapism takes on new meaning.

Good point, it really isn't the "tribe" like Okada has described it and he mentions there number of otaku going up as well.

contd

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 05:59:36 2014 No.12226460 >>12226454 Queen bitch, I can't believe you're still on /jp/ jesus.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:00:21 2014 No.12226461 >>12226460 If I had anywhere better to go I would have gone somewhere else a long fucking time ago. Please don't tell me you were the fucking VIPPER guy.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:01:06 2014 No.12226463

>>12226426
>Can't really think of major differences other than a much greater emphasis on slice of life, moe, and school. Also pointlessness. Your "golden age" point certainly rings true. Maybe it has only gotten worse. Bigger industry could definitely stifle individual voices as well. I said earlier in the thread that we're living the future and there's really nothing to be hopeful for anymore. I had hoped that it wasn't the case, but considering the facts, that's just the way it is.

I think sci-fi emphasizes the potential to transform society. Otaku are outcast, but they can also be visionaries in the sense that they use speculative fiction in order to create an ideal world they wish to live in.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:02:14 2014 No.12226468 >>12226461 I'am. That's why I recognized you. When are you gonna give up penetrating otaku culture? Are you still a feminist?

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:06:48 2014 No.12226477

>>12226468
I honestly don't give a shit about the details. Day in and day out all I ever see you do is try to shitpost people off the board with trivial shit and random accusations. You were shit and wrong then, and you're still shit and wrong now. VIPPERs are not, and will never be, the core of otaku culture driving the idol industry.

>When are you gonna give up penetrating otaku culture? Are you still a feminist?
And at what point did I start "penetrating" otaku culture? Is it not enough to jack off to eroge on a regular basis?

I flared up at you because I saw you decide to flip a shit about >>12226350's use of a magical forbidden word when all he was trying to emphasize the point that "otaku is a Japanese subculture." Which was fucking stupid.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:09:46 2014 No.12226479

>>12226477
>VIPPERs are not, and will never be, the core of otaku culture driving the idol industry.

Yes, they are.

You honestly think AKB48 is supported by mass culture?

>The clearest example of this is AKB48. With the letters AKB in their name, this group of girls was unequivocally marketed towards older males based in the Akihabara otaku culture. Compared to past mass market groups such as Speed, the girls are intentionally chosen and styled to look like elementary schoolgirls and lyrically address older men with direct sexual references. (See the “cat-eared brothel” video for “Heavy Rotation” and the unambiguous “love knows no age” lyrics for “Seifuku ga jama wo suru.”)

The mass idol group regularly has an “election” (sousenkyo) where fans try to vote their favorite girl to Number One. Buying certain AKB48 CD singles gives the fan a vote in the AKB48 election, which thus incentivizes otaku to buy multiple copies of the CD to increase their “political” power. The CD is thus no longer a means of listening to music but a way to influence the future of AKB48. This has created a legion of fans who buy dozens and hundreds of the same AKB48 CD or even 5500 copies. There are now doubts about that story’s authenticity but it basically was an exaggeration of an existing principle. Regardless, the marketing strategy of AKB48 does encourage the purchase of multiple goods, thus amplifying the buying power of nerds beyond their small numbers. This means as a consumer bloc, the AKB48 otaku fans can rival the non-otaku consumer base.

http://neojaponisme.com/2011/12/01/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-four/

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:10:38 2014 No.12226480 >>12226479 >You honestly think AKB48 is supported by mass culture? No. They're supported by wotas. The vast majority of whom are not VIPPERs.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:10:55 2014 No.12226481 >>12226477 Also, I have to flare up so /jp/ can stay pure.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:11:58 2014 No.12226484 >>12226480 >No. They're supported by wotas. The vast majority of whom are not VIPPERs. What? Yes, they are. How does being a wota disqualify you from being a vipper anyway.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:12:28 2014 No.12226485 >>12226477 You sound like a real fucking autist get the hell off my the jay

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:13:20 2014 No.12226487 >>12226484 It doesn't, this person is a moron.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:14:43 2014 No.12226489 >>12226485 I agree, fuck that guy. Where did all these god damn weebs come from all of a sudden, fuck.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:14:53 2014 No.12226490

>>12226481
I still don't see what was particularly objectionable about what he said. His definition of a geek was someone who was obsessed with something to an unsociable degree, and his definition of otaku was a Japanese geek. Is that a perfect definition? Probably not. But I don't see what's so shit about it that you have to attempt to shit it off the board for twenty posts with no explanation.

>>12226484
They have their own fucking channels to discuss wota shit, they don't have to hang out in Japanese /b/ with the retards.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:16:15 2014 No.12226495 File: 361 KB, 875x639, 1331850915359.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This entire thread, packed full of shitters.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:17:10 2014 No.12226498 >>12226490 >They have their own fucking channels to discuss wota shit, they don't have to hang out in Japanese /b/ with the retards. It's like saying you don't take part in politics because you don't hang out in /pol/.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:17:25 2014 No.12226499 >>12226489 They should take their damn circle jerk to /soc/ fucking faggots. I'm going to email moot right now

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:18:11 2014 No.12226500 >>12226490 >I still don't see what was particularly objectionable about what he said Because people who only understand concepts by looking for an equivalent in their language are intellectual sloths.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:21:44 2014 No.12226504

>>12226500
And the entire point that was being made was that someone who is obsessed with something to the point of unsociability is only an otaku if he is in Japan. If he's in the West, he's just a geek (or maybe a part of some other Western subculture).

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:22:52 2014 No.12226506 >>12226498 It's more like saying most people who take part in politics don't hang out on /b/. Or /pol/, for that matter.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:24:05 2014 No.12226507 >>12226506 The problem is the moniker isn't limited to a board name. It's used outside of futaba.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:25:06 2014 No.12226509 >>12226504 You're still doing equivalence between Geek and Otaku. It's more than just geographic location.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:26:33 2014 No.12226518 >>12226509 When people say "Japanese" they're not talking about being physically located in the country of Japan, they're talking about the Japanese culture that the otaku subculture(s) are embedded in.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:27:06 2014 No.12226519

>>12226458
>Okada does critisize ota for "ghettoizing themselves in one of his books.
Anno's claim of otaku's "self-imposed autism" as well. I think much of "otakuism" is constructed by the otaku's own ダメ nature. While there was a lot of media vilification, I think deep down a lot of ota took pride in that and still do as evidenced by kimoi ota.

>I think the difference between kimoi and niwaka ota are that the former would be otaku even when times are good vs the latter which is a reaction to the economic situation in Japan.
Interesting. You could say then that one is primarily about obsession while the other about escapism. That would explain the rift between the two and why older otaku still sought to be understood.

A question remains since niwaka are criticized for doing it to "fit in." It's too hard to tell because industry is so large and the entry-curve is low. I think older members are afraid of being rendered irrelevant. At the same time I get how niwaka bother them. I think to focus on that is to forget the important point which is the message. Time will tell if niwaka cut the muster.

>Good point, it really isn't the "tribe" like Okada has described it and he mentions there number of otaku going up as well.
In his time it might've been that way. But with the internet things are radically different. Increasing otaku numbers are also evidence of worsening social situations.

>I think sci-fi emphasizes the potential to transform society. Otaku are outcast, but they can also be visionaries in the sense that they use speculative fiction in order to create an ideal world they wish to live in.
This is true and most evident with older series like Yamato or Macross. And I think it was probably Eva that challenged this potential the hardest--the future sucks, but at least we're still here. Or something. Today, otaku seem to forget a real world even exists, disconnected from politics, economics, etc.

Good shit. Going to bed, I'll check the thread tomorrow.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:28:14 2014 No.12226520

remember when /jp/ was for taking it easy and not being autismal buttmasters? yeah me neither.

someone once made the observation that in american escapism is about the fantasy of being someone amazing, while modern otaku escapism is about the fantasy of amazing things happening to your ordinary self. it's a broad generalization but I think it's pretty accurate.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:28:44 2014 No.12226522 >>12226518 And, that subculture only exist in one geographic location. At best it exists in a particular region.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:30:47 2014 No.12226525 Stop posting this shit on the jay

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:35:50 2014 No.12226539

>>12226519
>Anno's claim of otaku's "self-imposed autism" as well. I think much of "otakuism" is constructed by the otaku's own ダメ nature. While there was a lot of media vilification, I think deep down a lot of ota took pride in that and still do as evidenced by kimoi ota.

I think it's a product of being ostracized by society. Perhaps Otaku weren't always into ダメのこと as much. But, to distance themselves from mainstream society they took their indulgence in taboo as a badge of honor.

>nteresting. You could say then that one is primarily about obsession while the other about escapism. That would explain the rift between the two and why older otaku still sought to be understood.

A question remains since niwaka are criticized for doing it to "fit in." It's too hard to tell because industry is so large and the entry-curve is low. I think older members are afraid of being rendered irrelevant. At the same time I get how niwaka bother them. I think to focus on that is to forget the important point which is the message. Time will tell if niwaka cut the muster.

Agree'd

It could just be a reaction to irrelevancy like you said. I'm interested in seeing how niwaka evolve in otaku culture.

>In his time it might've been that way. But with the internet things are radically different. Increasing otaku numbers are also evidence of worsening social situations.

Sociologist often argue as cultures become larger and more complex people lose their communal connections with each other. And, society becomes more of a series of dependent but not interconnected networks.

I think that's the case right now. Kimoi ota might be people who are nostalgic for the days of a more organic type community or tribe. With interpersonal values. Sort of like how romantics of the early 19th century were nostalgic for pre industrial times.

Good night.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:39:59 2014 No.12226549

>>12226520
>it's a broad generalization but I think it's pretty accurate.
No, it isn't? A lot of otaku escapism doesn't even have a proper male insert. Instead, the proxy becomes the camera itself. Every 4-girl comedy slice of life follows this principle. That said, we still have superpowered characters (every shounen battle manga ever, magical girls?). And I don't know why you're specifying modern otaku escapism as if you shouldn't consider the entirety of otaku culture which has involved superheroes since the 60s. Sounds like cherrypicking to me and it's wrong to boot.

You want to know a real difference? Japanese escapism (and general culture) is obsessed with youth and fetishizes almost all aspects of it: moe, loli, clothing, mannerisms, speech patterns, atmospheres and settings, vfisual motifs (e.g. cherry blossoms, randoseru). This is because Japan is a nation of manchildren so deprived of fulfillment that they construct escapist fantasies of their "golden years" in high school despite that period itself being absolute shit. Seriously, actually living in Japan sucks.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:41:49 2014 No.12226553 >>12226549 Are you this guy?: >>12226519

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:42:44 2014 No.12226554 >>12226549 >Instead, the proxy becomes the camera itself. Doesn't that just mean there's no proxy at all? The same way that fiction is more "normally" enjoyed, sans proxy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:46:00 2014 No.12226557 >>12226507 >VIPPER >futaba Overlooking that, is it really? I don't see people on other 2ch boards calling themselves or being called vippers. I don't see futaba's Toshiaki calling themselves or being called vippers.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:48:57 2014 No.12226558 >>12226557 So, it's wrong because of anecdotal evidence? Are you retarded by chance?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:51:36 2014 No.12226560 >>12226558 No, it's wrong because of no evidence. This is your cue to provide some.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:53:25 2014 No.12226561 >>12226560 Since anecdotal evidence is A-okay. I heard someone use it.

>>	QB !WnYA1htnTU Fri Jun 27 06:53:53 2014 No.12226562 I just wanted to comment and say that that's not me.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:56:01 2014 No.12226564 >>12226560 Why would you ask for evidence and use anecdotes yourself?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 06:58:59 2014 No.12226567 >>12226561 I don't know where did you get that idea that being a shithead substitutes for having a valid case, but you're just proving yourself to be a retard here.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:00:26 2014 No.12226573 >>12226567 In otherwords you're a hypocrite who's full of shit?

>>	QB !WnYA1htnTU Fri Jun 27 07:00:56 2014 No.12226575 >>12226558 He wants you to show him some proof that VIPPER is used more widely than he thinks it is.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:01:01 2014 No.12226576 >>12226564 Proof of existence lies on a proponent of existence. This is a basic rule of logical discourse.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:02:25 2014 No.12226580 Burden of proof of existence lies on the proponent of existence. This is a basic rule of logical discourse.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:03:38 2014 No.12226583 >>12226575 >>12226576 >>12226580 That guy isn't me, I was AFK for a while. What do you guys want proof of?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:06:05 2014 No.12226590 VIPPER is only used in 2ch, this guy is a moron. He said futaba should have stopped listening to him there.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:06:55 2014 No.12226591 >>12226553 No? I borrowed some of anon's terms though. >>12226554 I would say there's no proxy if it wasn't for the voyeuristic freedoms the camera takes. By giving us fanservice, the show allows the viewer to interact in a sense.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:08:30 2014 No.12226596 >>12226590 I think it was Queen Bitch. As always she has no idea what the terms mean.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:08:43 2014 No.12226598 >>12226591 Right, that. I watch more iyashikei-type stuff which tends to be a little lighter on that stuff, so I forgot about it.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:11:19 2014 No.12226600

>>12226591
>I would say there's no proxy if it wasn't for the voyeuristic freedoms the camera takes. By giving us fanservice, the show allows the viewer to interact in a sense.

Is that related to the types of angles we get in ero manga: Inside the vagina, beneath the female and so forth?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:13:25 2014 No.12226603 ITT: Nerds fight over who's dick is smaller

>>	QB !WnYA1htnTU Fri Jun 27 07:13:53 2014 No.12226605 >>12226596 During that time my only posts were >>12226490, >>12226504, and >>12226518. I actually half suspect that's you talking.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:14:54 2014 No.12226608

>>12226549
I thought it was obvious but I should have specified self insert fantasy. I don't know what shows you've been following but almost all of them these days follow the "protagonist is a completely ordinary student except 6 girls lust for his dick" or "completely ordinary student except that he's the only man in an all girls setting" formula.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:16:45 2014 No.12226609 >>12215483 Sounds like something out of "Anime is the Tie That binds us together" form SomethingAwfull

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:21:45 2014 No.12226618 How many times do we have to have this debate over who's a true otaku and who is not? It's always the same people too I.E. colony drop posters like this: >>12226549

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:22:15 2014 No.12226620

>>12226600
I don't think so. It's more like cutting to a shower scene or something or random panchira. No insert characters present, but you're still enjoying the intimacy. Think of Strike Witches and all that cameltoe. The camera becomes a bro that shows you the goods, or rather, you /are/ the camera.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:26:04 2014 No.12226626

>>12226608
Yes. and there are shows where MC is hella overpowered. Maybe once you clear up why you decided to arbitrarily single out "modern otaku escapism," I'll take the point seriously.
>>12226618
I've only ever read two articles from CD and I can't stand them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:33:27 2014 No.12226633 >>12226549 You forgot to explain american escapism too.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:46:33 2014 No.12226646

>>12226633
I don't even consider most American shit to be escapist. Most of it is really topical, particularly with superheroes. Maybe Knight fantasies are borne from inferiority anxieties. America is a nation obsessed with masculinity. Our escapism is pretty weak as far as I can tell.

I don't know why the escapism itself should be compared without looking at the larger picture.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 07:54:17 2014 No.12226650 >>12226646 So, I'm guessing the average Jap is a massive pussy who can't handle reality? If so, then why?

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 09:50:15 2014 No.12226786

>>12226626
I specified "modern otaku" as opposed to tru-otaku or 1st gen or whatever the autists earlier were earlier were arguing about.

>there are shows where MC is hella overpowered
and in how many of those is he also a high school student?

>>12226633
high fantasy knight shit and bald space marines

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 13:41:04 2014 No.12227134 >neojaponisme L-O-L

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 15:56:10 2014 No.12227387

>>12226786
>and in how many of those is he also a high school student?
Granted, many, but then how many superheroes aren't regular people gifted with powers? Your original point with Japanese escapism could also apply to America, though Japan usually has younger heroes. I think the central difference lies in the theme of youth.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 16:34:21 2014 No.12227457 >>12227387 >but then how many superheroes aren't regular people gifted with powers? Lots?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 18:13:37 2014 No.12227661 >>12227134 There aren't really that many good sources in english for otaku culture. But, yeah.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 18:15:09 2014 No.12227664 >>12227387 That explains the whole "teenagers saving the word" thing Japan loves so much.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 19:11:57 2014 No.12227786 >>12227457 Ah, well I don't really know much about comic books. Just all the ones I can think of usually involve some everyman character saving the world. That gives it underdog appeal.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 19:30:34 2014 No.12227825 >>12227786 Really? I can think of some with an everyman character, but I can't actually think of that many.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 19:34:23 2014 No.12227833 File: 76 KB, 453x435, 1327102374261.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] https://archive.foolz.us/jp/thread/5384764/#5384893

>>	Anonymous of Alabama !.p44NyTsCo Fri Jun 27 19:34:28 2014 No.12227834 >>12227786 Most heroes are not like Captain Marvel.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 21:30:34 2014 No.12228008

>>12227825
Spiderman, some X-men, Capt. America, Daredevil, Superman?, and Watchmen's whole deal was normal people in masks. Again, I know almost nothing about superheroes, but the one's I've seen involve average people who become superheroes. It's anecdotal, but that's all I know.

I always figured it's because it's not the powers that make the hero, but the ideals.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 21:54:04 2014 No.12228052

>>12228008
>Spiderman
No, remember the part about being bitten by a radioactive spider, that gives him heightened strength and wallclimbing powers
>some X-men
Such as?
>Capt. America
The result of a supersoldier experiment, injected with a special serum
>Daredevil
Heightened senses and strength as a result of him losing sigth
>Superman
LOL?
>Watchmen's whole deal was normal people in masks.
Except for Ozymadias having the highest IQ on Earth and Dr. Manhattan, right? Both of whom play a bigger part in the story than anyone else.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 22:25:15 2014 No.12228123

>>12228052
No no no, you're missing my point. Superheroes are normal people who gain superpowers. They aren't born heroes, but are transformed due to circumstances. What makes them heroes is not the powers, but how they use them. At the heart of every superhero is just an average person. That's the appeal.

I forgot what the argument was, but yeah.

>Except for Ozymadias having the highest IQ on Earth and Dr. Manhattan, right? Both of whom play a bigger part in the story than anyone else.
You seem to be missing one of the central themes of watchmen.

Anonymous Fri Jun 27 23:50:27 2014 No.12228303

>>12228008
>Spiderman
He's a total genius, not a normal person.
>X-men
They're mutants bro.
>Capt. America
The most normal, but a soldier outside of a war story isn't really an everyman.
>Daredevil
He's blind.
>Superman
Haha.
>Watchmen
Other than not being accurate, it's also stupid to point to Watchmen as an example of standard comic book superheroes. That's like pointing to Shinji as a good example of mecha MCs.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 27 23:51:29 2014 No.12228306 I hate kirino

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 28 00:21:20 2014 No.12228356 >>12228303 >That's like pointing to Shinji as a good example of mecha MCs. He is though, at least for real robot shows.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 28 04:50:22 2014 No.12228834 >>12228356 You guys are veering off the point. Are you saying Japanese characters are less down to earth than american ones? Is it because they tend to be too young? I don't understand the point about youth and reliability.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 28 04:51:35 2014 No.12228837 >>12228834 *Relatability.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 28 05:43:03 2014 No.12228889 >>12228834 I don't even know any more. I think escapism follows similar principles regardless of culture, but Japan just has a greater emphasis on younger characters. The question is: why?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 28 06:01:23 2014 No.12228907 >>12228889 Lack of western fixation on maturity. In all aspects, "maturity" of the story, of characters, audience's perceived maturity as consumers of fiction...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 28 17:04:39 2014 No.12229724 >>12224866 Sociology deserves more than to be lumped in with "otaku" studies.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 28 18:03:23 2014 No.12229815 >>12229724 Sociology doesn't deserve much with how bad it is these days.

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/jp/ - Otaku Culture