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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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11717368 No.11717368 [Reply] [Original]

Is Gensokyo a communist/socialist society? Maybe feudalist since there's strict control of areas (Scarlet Devil Mansion, Forest of Magic, Human Village, etc.)?

>> No.11717379 [DELETED] 

Gensokyo is a egalitarian pre-industrial society whose primary economic activities are agriculture and crafts. The means of production, as it were, are owned by those who use them.

Also, there's a steady influx of forgotten shit from over the boarder.

>> No.11717398

Gensokyo is dominated by agriculture and crafts. The means of production are owned by those who use them, and a market determines prices, so it's essentially a capitalist system. However, it doesn't feature the capital accumulation which characterizes industrial capitalist economies.

Also, there's a steady influx of random forgotten shit from over the border.

>> No.11717401

Gensokyo is a jungle. The strong survive.

>> No.11717703

>>11717398
>Gensokyo is dominated by agriculture and crafts. The means of production are owned by those who use them, and a market determines prices, so it's essentially a capitalist system.
Gensokyo has yet to fully develop a bourgeoisie, and very few humans make their living by profiting off of the surplus value of the labour of others. It is very much a pre-capitalist economy, with capitalist elements sprinkled on the margins and seeping in from the outside world. The continued existence of youkai dictates that Yukari and the other masterminds of Gensokyo prevent the development of such markets within human society.

>> No.11717741

>>11717703
socialism comes after capitalism ladm8. a society that's pre-capitalist could never be genuinely communist or even socialist.

>> No.11717752

>>11717741
Well yeah, that's what I was basically saying.

Mao would argue that the peasantry of the human village could transform Gensokyo into an industrialized socialist economy, however Mao was an idiot.

>> No.11717754

Gensokyo is a Reimutocracy

>> No.11717760
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11717760

>>11717752
>Mao would argue that the peasantry of the human village could transform Gensokyo into an industrialized socialist economy, however Mao was an idiot.

pmuch. attempting socialist revolution before capitalism has run its course is just begging for police state dystopia no matter how good your intentions are.

id say gensokyo is still feudal, albeit in an idealized sort of way.

>> No.11717768
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11717768

>marxists

>> No.11717784

>>11717760
>feudal
Well, I intentionally avoided the use of the word feudal, since the humans of the Human Village don't appear to owe fealty towards any kind of landlord. I very much doubt the youkai would allow a daimyo to establish himself anyway.

It seems more along the lines of those tiny-ass Chinese market towns that served family farms the size of postage stamps before the civil war and the people's republic. I think quite a few still exist actually?

>attempting socialist revolution before capitalism has run its course is just begging for police state dystopia no matter how good your intentions are
You get small religious groups using pure communism as a successful vector to achieve their spiritual aims, but other than that you're basically right esp. on any scale above the local (where you're just steamrolling civil society in a vain attempt to hit the fast-forward button on history).

p.s. what animu is that girl from

>> No.11717789
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11717789

>>11717768
>thumbnails

>> No.11718062

communism is satanism in disguise.

>> No.11718069

If you think about it, communism looks great on paper.

>> No.11718126

>>11718069
Anything looks good on paper.

>> No.11718686

>>11717784
>It seems more along the lines of those tiny-ass Chinese market towns that served family farms the size of postage stamps before the civil war

However these tiny market towns weren't free (in the sense of freedom, liberty); they were often managed by a local landlord who collected taxes and placed the funds in their own family treasury.

>> No.11718694

There isn't a goverment just small communities all over.

>> No.11718704

>>11718069
Capitalism also looked good on paper.

>> No.11718737

>>11718069
Your face looks great on paper too

>> No.11718739

>>11718737
thanks. if only it were as great in real life... ;_;

>> No.11718741

>>11718739
Ya that's what I meant you ugly shit

>> No.11718746

>>11717398
>The means of production are owned by those who use them

That's the complete opposite of a Capitalist society.

>> No.11718768
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11718768

Anarchist.

There are no overarching systems of government, and every job is taken up voluntary (Sakuya is the Red Mansion's head maid because she likes to smell Remilia and and Flandre's panties, Patchy gets to read and be fat all day and Meiling gets to sleep and fight all day).

Eery section of Gensokyo is gaurded by the people who live there (Reimu defends her shrine, Meiling defends the Red Mansion and I would imagine Marisa practices her magic on adventurous youkai who want to know what little blonde girls taste like).

Food seems to be shared or hunted, and residents rely on each other's good will to stay afloat (Reimu's donation box). The only place remotely like a Capitalist system seems to be Human Village's market, which really only seems to serve as a a customary facade for exchanging luxuries and fancy food.

>> No.11718773

Most of Gensokyo seems to live under city states.

>> No.11718847

>>11718768
Lunacy side, i think this anon has a point.

>> No.11718940

>>11718746
It's a society dominated entirely by petty-bourgeoisie. Nothing but autonomous peasantry and small proprietors.

Capital is neither held neither by a state nor a lord, so it's not socialist or feudal.

>> No.11719463

>>11718069
No it doesn't.

>> No.11719483

>>11718768
That. Arguing that Gensokyo is communist or socialist without any form of government, capitalist without capital, or feudal without lords is the epitome of stupidity.

Gensokyo is the textbook definition of anarchy. Not socialism, not communism, not capitalism. Anarchy.

I don't even understand why there is a discussion to begin with. If you read the definition of communism, socialism, capitalism, and anarchy, it is self evident that Gensokyo is an anarchy. You shouldn't have any difficulties here. It's not 'clever' or 'difficult' to understand. Gensokyo is the very definition of it.

>> No.11719488

>>11719483
Land and tools and shops are capital.

>> No.11719511

>>11719488
Lands and tools and shops aren't relevant for most Youkai. Worst, lands and tools and shops doesn't define the very nature of Gensokyo's system. In Gensokyo, you are not most powerful because you have more lands and tools and shops. In Gensokyo, you don't have a say because you have more lands and tools and shops. Lands and tools and shops aren't freely traded between people, and for what matter lands and tools and shops aren't very useful at all.

You can't be in a capitalist system if the capital is neither an end or a beginning, and for what it's worth, doesn't even matter in the long or the small run.

>> No.11719523

Gensokyo is the opposite of communism.
It's a like the Bismarck's society where Yukari and elite youkai deal with everything.
Everyone is happy, but you can't protest and think with you head.

>> No.11719528

>>11719511
I assumed we were talking about the economy of the human village and those who interact immediately with it. Outside of them yes, it's an anarchy, with people making a livelihood through theft, freeloading, found shit, offerings, a few actual service providers, and who the fuck knows what else.

Well, there's also the Kappa and the Tengu and the underground (that last one is an anarchy if there ever was one) but anarchy is not an economic system.

>> No.11719534

>>11718768
But there are still unspoken laws that everyone agrees to follow, (aka spellcard rules), where there is a higher power that enforces them (Yukari). And this higher power even has someone who is in charge of ensuring no one pulls off the road (Reimu).

And the border is there to protect the higher power and keep the masses isolated and uninformed, making ideas, actions and values of Gensokyan society unchanged in time, so they can keep being manipulated.


Not that I care about such complicated things, I just want to serve my vampire loli mistress and receive my payment on used panties to smell them.


Ojou-sama, Ojou-sama, Remilia Ojou-sama, etc, etc.

>> No.11719536

>>11719523
This, everytime someone goes on a rampage it gets stopped.
The human village doesn't have political leaders, if I recall right it because of Yukari's will.
The only leaders are religious figure that serve the purpose to mitigate revolts.
There are even youkai spy set by Yukari in the human village to check the situation everytime.
Gensokyo is also called a Pseudo Paradise.

Even with DDC the weak youkai tried to do a revolt about this, only to get fucked by the MCs because muh balance.

>> No.11719595

>>11719534
>But there are still unspoken laws that everyone agrees to follow, (aka spellcard rules)

The spellcard rules are literally written down

>> No.11719600

>>11719595
Yeah, but I meant that there isn't need for someone to explain them because they are well known by everyone and followed blindly.

>> No.11719917

>>11719536
>The human village doesn't have political leaders
Reimu is about as close as the Human Village comes to having a leader; whenever the youkai are acting threatening, the people bug her to go "take care of it." She also seems to be sensitive to public opinion, since she is reluctant to exterminate the little helper spy youkai because they are "good" youkai that help the humans. She isn't invested with any political title, but her position as the Hakurei shrine maiden appears to carry with it some secular duties. She seems to be more of a caudillo or African strong (wo)man than anything else, since she derives her authority (as a youkai exterminator) through sheer power.

Yukari seems to be interested in maintaining this status quo.
>Even with DDC the weak youkai tried to do a revolt about this
You mean Seija. The weak youkai were content until she started fucking around with the hierarchy.

>>11719534
>Ojou-sama, Ojou-sama, Remilia Ojou-sama, etc, etc.
Put some oomph into your perversions man!

>>11719483
Perhaps, but Anarchy implies that there are no higher coercive authorities. The Human Village, isolated, is a textbook case of an Anarchist market system. However it's repeated over and over that the Human Village is a farm for the youkai to retain a population that believes in them. Basically, what >>11719536 said.

>> No.11720037

>>11717760
How can you be feudal without land being divided up or farmers being owned? We don't know much about the human village but if it even has a mayor or other municipal leader we haven't met them yet.

>> No.11720047

>>11719534
Yukari doesn't directly enforce the spellcard rules, which are in any case more of a public agreement than anything with the force of law. Reimu is more of a sheriff than a policewoman.

>> No.11720053

anarchy all the way

>> No.11720076

>>11719483
Socially it sounds like anarchism, but is there even an economic system? If there isn't, we can't talk about economic system like communism or capitalism, but only about whether it's an anarchy, democracy or fascist regime.

>> No.11720079

>>11720076
It sure isn't a democracy or fascist regime. I'm pretty sure fascism is more than just authoritarianism, and there's really no formal system for even Yukari to be on top of.

>> No.11720099

>>11719528
>there's also the Kappa and the Tengu

Which reminds me, they live in a different society than the other Gensokyo people. They have their territory, their law and has a leader leading them. Especially the Tengu.

I think especially the Tengu is the closest to a feudal system. And the Kappa are very capitalist. Just look at HM Nitori and how much of a Happy Merchant she is.

>> No.11720133

>>11720047
>Reimu is more of a sheriff than a policewoman.
?!?!

>> No.11720282

Which is the best way towards a resilient socialism: the bullet or the ballot? My inner guerrilla wants to say the former. Plus, a lot of powerful fat cat youkai need to go up against the wall if the Human Village is to reign supreme.

>> No.11720374

>>11720133
It was a stupid thing to say but I meant to emphasize that she keeps the peace more than she follows the law.

>> No.11723600

>>11720374
so, in other words, a casual vigilante?

>> No.11723653

Reminder that the spellcard rules are not required to substitute dangerous interaction. ZUN explicitly mentioned that part of the reason no males play danmaku is because they don't find it as fun or worthwhile.

>> No.11724344

>>11723653
but how does that relate to the economic system(s) that appear in Gensokyo?

>> No.11727042

What's the type of society that describes /jp/?

>> No.11727050

>>11727042
Shitocracy

>> No.11727078

>>11727042
Dumbocracy. The opposite of meritocracy. The less useful and constructive you are, the more valued.

With the janny I guess it makes a tyrannical dumbocraty.

>> No.11727090

>>11717768
>>11717789

Seeing this image reminded me of YAZA, who made an awesome yuugi(?) video a long time ago. So I seek it out to watch it after probably a couple years or however long, only to find that he deleted all the pictures on his pixiv, set his videos on nico to private and disappeared off the internets. WHYYYYY

>> No.11729579

>>11727050
>>11727078
I was actually expecting more serious answers.

>> No.11729599

>>11729579
nerd answer it's an aristocracy. the ruling body is self-propagating and the citizenry have no say.

>> No.11729694

>>11729599
An aristocracy isn't accountable to a higher authority.

4chan relies on the userbase and advertisers for money.

>> No.11729708

>>11729694
so i guess it's just a dictatorship with moot at the top?

>> No.11729737

>>11717368

Communist? No. Socialist? Yes.

>>
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