[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/jp/ - Otaku Culture

View post   
  [?]In ghost mode, only threads with non-archived posts will be shown
File: 34 KB, 453x720, rip.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11653374 No.11653374 [Reply] [Original]

In the post-battle conversation after you defeat a character, you'll notice that all they receive is a bandage on their head in addition to torn clothes

Having said that, I've concluded that Spell Card Danmaku fights are perfectly safe!

... Can't say the same for your clothes, though.

>> No.11653385

Danmaku is an art, nigger.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Draft_of_Spell_Card_Rules
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Spellcard

>> No.11653427

>>11653374
that artist really "loves" aya

>> No.11656217

>>11653385
So they fight with art? How?

>> No.11656225

>>11656217
They summon art critics for each Danmaku duel. Then the art critics give a note from 0 to ten.

>> No.11656236
File: 303 KB, 908x1300, silent_sinner_ch13_17.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11656236

>>11656217
Read SSiB

>> No.11656242
File: 312 KB, 908x1300, silent_sinner_ch13_20.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11656242

>>11656236
>>11656217
Wait, this page explains it better.

>> No.11656303

>>11656242
It still doesn't explain it at all. Why would a pretty, but easy to avoid pattern be better than an ugly, but hard to avoid pattern?

>> No.11656307

>>11656303
Because the beauty of it lies in it not being meaningless.

>> No.11656329

>>11653385
>>11656236
I love how you guys never link the simpliest description: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/The_Grimoire_of_Marisa/Afterword_by_Marisa_Kirisame

>> No.11656342

>>11656329
>Bug types are danmaku of random showers of random colors. If there are too many colors, it isn't very pretty. Weak creatures tend to use it.
So Stardust Reverie means Marisa is weak?
>For danmaku, that would be one with no gaps, or the fastest and largest attacks possible. That kind of attack can't be described as danmaku at all.
So Master Spark isn't really danmaku?

>> No.11656344

Don't read SSIB, it's shit. Do something fun instead.

>> No.11656352

>>11656342
Stardust moves in a pretty standard swirl, and master spark is by no means fast.

>> No.11656504
File: 902 KB, 656x562, remilia spear stance.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11656504

>>11656242
Are you sure that Marisa isn't just talking deep or shit like that?

I refuse to believe that the duel is just "let's see whose fireworks is prettier, whoever runs out of energy to produce fireworks first should surrender and go home" and how exactly it can solve incidents, especially to make someone like Utsuho and Remilia surrender.

They still hit each other and the one who lose get her clothes torn off. Some characters talk about "taking you down!" or even "kill". Reimu doesn't seems to be kind of person that use "beauty" to defeat an opponent. It also doesn't explain the fighting games gameplay where they hit each other physically.

Even if it can prevent you from getting killed, danmaku maybe isn't completely non-lethal like most people said. Maybe it's just to prevent youkai to use pure physical force, and even that doesn't seems to make several character wouldn't engage in physical combat.

And again >>11656344
What Marisa said in Griomoire of Marisa is more considerable at least, while you can't really trust what Akyuu said in BAiJR since it may lack proper research, though that doesn't mean I completely deny it.

It whether ZUN need to re-evalute the rules or it's just another "open to interpretation" thingy and doesn't mean to be taken too seriously, so you can think the rules as anything you're comfortable with or even you can just disregard it completely.

>> No.11656527
File: 284 KB, 908x1300, silent_sinner_ch13_22.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11656527

>>11656504
You're missing the point of the draft of spellcard rules.

If you're in Gensokyo, you're magically forced to respect the spellcard rules, because Yukari, the one who raised and maintains the barrier (see Sangetsusei) was the one who wrote the draft, as you can see here >>11653385. So actually, what Akyuu wrote is the most accurate version of the rules, as it's the actual spell that Yukari wrote in youkai contract paper, and that Reimu keeps.

If it wasn't for the rules, they wouldn't be forced to danmaku problems away. And when they were on the moon on SSiB, the lunarians could've just ignored the spellcard rules, but Yorihime accepted it because it sounded nice.

>> No.11656577

>>11656527
I'm not denying the part about the contract and how they try to preserve the lives of youkai and shrine maiden, but the whole "fight solely with beauty and showcase" is still hard to believe. Maybe Akyuu missed several details and there's part of rules that uncovered by her reports, something we don't know. So it's all again open to interpretation.

>> No.11656602

>>11656527
>If you're in Gensokyo, you're magically forced to respect the spellcard rules, because Yukari
Jeesus Christ. Yukari, will you ever stop being "answer to every riddle"? This is getting silly. Why *smth*? Because Yukari, that explains everything, shutup.

>you're magically forced to respect the spellcard rules
And nobody's ever looks surprised by this spell effect/ Byakuren got unsealed, Miko was awaken etc etc etc - and they immediately started shooting funny non-lethal colored bullets? And nobody ever tried to actually, you know, kill somebody? 'Cause herpderp canon evil youkai bloodbath maneaters go away secondaries etc. No?
I don't remember a single case of somebody actually caring about "what the hell is going on, wtf bullets, who invented these mad rules".

>> No.11656633

>>11656602
If you want to see something funny, read the interview in SOPM in which ZUN apparently forgets that spellcard rules even exists.

>> No.11656649

>>11656527
>you're magically forced to respect the spellcard rules
Holy shit, what? Where the hell did you read that? This is why I hate discussions about canon: people take a poor translation of a single sentence and then make the most far-fetched speculations possible.
Anyway in the game it's possible to defeat a boss without using a single spellcard (aka bomb). In fact you can win without firing a single bullet. ZUN did really poor job trying to explain game mechanics in his manga/books.

>> No.11656659

>>11656649
> single spellcard (aka bomb)
What
Bombs are spellcards.
> poor translation
You can always edit the wiki yourself or support that universal touhou patch tool project.

>> No.11656664

>>11656659
>Bombs are spellcards.
aka = also known as

>> No.11656686

Spell Card Rules are just a retcon because ZUN didn't want Touhou to be too violent. There's probably some law against showing violence against children.

Notice in EoSD, Reimu thinks she has killed Sakuya (because she's human and most humans would die from danmaku).

>> No.11656700

>>11656686
ZUN should never have tried to explain it in any way. He should have just run with it like almost any other shmup does. Why do those ships have those attack patterns? Who cares, go shoot shit.

>> No.11656737

>>11656649
There's no mistranslation or misinterpretation. That's how and why spellcard rules work. The few fanbooks and the bunch of official manga confirm it.

>Anyway in the game it's possible to defeat a boss without using a single spellcard (aka bomb). In fact you can win without firing a single bullet.
And that is part of the Spellcard Rules. That's why the spellcards must be named and counted before the duel starts. And as Marisa says here >>11656242, you show off your greatest moves and see if your opponent will dodge them or be crushed by them.
As the draft says,
>- If you are defeated in a naming duel, acknowledge the loss even if you have remaining strength.

Transpose that to the games, and that's easily understood. If you moved more gracefully and are still fine after all the spellcards used by your opponent have been spent, you win, even if you didn't use spellcards.

No reason to get mad about that.

>> No.11656756

>>11656737
That's also why graze is so important - there's nothing more beautiful.

>> No.11656778

>>11656700
Yeah, I agree. the explanation and rules are unnecessary.
Then again, ZUN might really like bullet patterns and spellcard names and want to implement it into the story, but it became just stupid when it becomes "a harmless, candy-throwing duel". I hope that's not what he completely intended. The games still give impression that the duel means they hurt each other using some patterned-magic bullets and lasers.

>> No.11656784
File: 307 KB, 600x600, futodreaming.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11656784

Explain why characters who should know nothing at all about spellcards use them without the player character telling them about it. Why would someone like Futo or Hijiri have spellcards?

>> No.11656822

>>11656784
Maybe the moment they entered Gensokyo they automatically gained an ability to create a spellcard after they feel unusual power in their body the moment they entered the domain, and they decide to use that power since it's more convenient to attack the opponent with bullet hell than using single attack from weapon or magic.
The more powerful the individual's magical capabilities the more easier they can create a spellcard just by thinking about it. They can even use weapon, object and their initial abilities as part of spellcard.

>> No.11656835

>>11656822
Maybe it's part of Gensokyo or the barrier's nature or something.

That's just what I think.

>> No.11656844

>>11656822
That's some nice fan wanking but it won't be useful for this kind of thread.

>> No.11656848

>>11656737
>The few fanbooks and the bunch of official manga confirm it.
Quote that sentence, paragraph or manga page. I need confirmation about "magically forced".

>And that is part of the Spellcard Rules [...]
Again, Koakuma fight is always zero spellcards against zero spellacrds (unless you're a total scrub and bomb). Why that fight was even allowed?
And why even bother naming your attack if you can just spam bullets and call it non-spell?
Why everyone in IN had one more spellcard than they initially declared (last words). Isn't that against the rules? And Kaguya threw not one, but fucking five spellcards after she was defeated first time.

>>11656822
I bet 10$ ZUN didn't even think about it. Someone should have asked about it during AWA con.

>> No.11656864

>>11656844
Most of Touhou canon are vague you can only use fan-wanking to clear things up.

>> No.11656875

>>11656848
I wanted to ask ZUN lost of stupid things about the series, like why do characters always look different, why does Satori have short arms, is Hijirin's arm broken or the whole why does Futo have spellcards thing. Sadly, i didn't have any money to go.

>> No.11656886
File: 52 KB, 420x247, 1382108771815.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11656886

>>11656875
I'd like you to ask him about the story but complaining about the art is rude.

>> No.11656898

>>11656886
I bet most of his answers about appearances would have been something generic like "Magic" anyway. Why did Aya become an elf and change hair colour? Tengu magic. Why does Sanae change eye colours so often? Shinto magic.

>> No.11656937
File: 313 KB, 325x917, yukari strip by setz.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11656937

>>11656898
It depends on the temperature

>> No.11656945

>>11656875
You can always email him. You'll need someone to translate for you.

>> No.11657876

>>11656784
Zunplot

And there isn't an explanation of how come Sakuya's knives even though they're real they don't kill Reimus,
or how come Shou's laser pagoda doesn't turn the girls into ashes.

I'll blame ZUN's spellcard thingy to gameplay-wise reasons. Because you can't depict an Oni's physically knocking you in 3 steps in a shooting game like this.

And I doubt people truly relies on the spell card rules when your life is at stake.

>> No.11657927

>>11657876
Try beating the games without dying.
Even so, you can say they never take a direct hit. They give up before then, hence the clothes being torn after losing. See >>11656737
> If you are defeated in a naming duel, acknowledge the loss even if you have remaining strength.

I wish ZUN would use more physical cards. All I can remember is Ran's barrel roll in StB. You could possibly include Rin's zombie chasers, too.

>> No.11657982

>>11657927
Youmu tries to decapitate you a bunch of times.

>> No.11658012

>>11657927
What do you mean?, I've 1cc on at least normal almost all games.

And yeah, because having your clothes torn up on several parts with the sharp blade of a knife without having your skin bleed its totally ok.

>> No.11664175
File: 18 KB, 800x473, ohayou why.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11664175

>> No.11667146

>>11657927
You're taking citation from a probably bad translation of Akyuu's limited view of a fucking DRAFT.

Put that aside, I don't think even ZUN think about the rules seriously. Maybe he just have a hard-on for bullet patterns and naming them and tried to put it into the story, but never go beyond few hints and explanation in books and now it's never mentioned again. He seems to forget it.

>> No.11668748

>>11667146
>bad translation
You're welcome to contribute. The current version had actually fixed the faulty translation that has been there for ages; before it used to say things such as "physical attacks cannot be repeated" which led to widespread misconceptions. If you can point out faulty translations it would benefit everyone and would be appreciated. If you think there's a mistake, speak up. But saying "it's probably a bad translation" and rejecting sources is just plain retarded for several different reasons.

The point of it being a draft of the rules is that it isn't the be-all end-all declaration of the rules and leaves room for expansion and detail (and ambiguities) while still explaining the core points. It would be totally careless to write down the entirety of the rules as unchangeable fact if you aren't certain where the series is going to go in the future; using a "draft" is just a device that gives you literary leeway. It's completely valid as a starting point unless we have reason to believe it's been retconned.
It also isn't Akyuu's view of it, it's a transcript in the "miscellaneous documents" section at the end.

>>
Reply to thread [?]Don't expect anything heroic. Your post will not be uploaded to the original board.
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Action