/jp/ - Otaku Culture

They make my heart go "doki doki".

They make my heart go "paru paru".

Who drew the one where Sanae goes around exploding everybody in UFO?

>>8969422
This one? Stripe Pattern.

>>8969406
Grimdark shit makes secondary hearts go doki doki.

>>8969437
>if 2hus don't act like they do in IOSYS videos I don't like them

>>8969443
fuck your moeshit tohonifun&strike pattern for lyfe rite? xD

>>8969443
Cool false dilemma you got there.

>>8969454
Except it's true. /jp/ talks about hating IOSYS and other secondary things and yet from the threads here /jp/ seems to like the same depiction of Touhous as those animations; cute, friendly, safe girls. Anything that isn't that is instantly grimdark and /jp/ shits on it.

>>8969457
take it easy bro it's okay to like grimdark secondary 2hu ^.^

>>8969457
/jp/ is not one person or so I prefer to believe.
And there is a such thing as moderation.

>>8969457
Gensokyo is not grimdark and neither are touhous. But it aint moemoe blubby blubby either. Touhous have alot of personalities and behavior styles besides moe but they arent grimdark.

>>8969484

They are monsters born from human fears and nightmares to terrorize and eat people.

That's pretty dark if you ask me.

>>8972191
Its hardly any different than animals terrorizing humans in reality. and If you think touhou is dark than you need to take a look at our own world.

Murasa goes around killing humans via drowning even. Byakuren is essentially Stripe Pattern's interpretation, so she doesn't care.

Deal with it.

>>8969457
Serious stories are nice in a while, but Stripe Pattern is the epitome of dark and edgy secondaries.

I was actually thinking of writting a story that would focus more on some of my favorite characters personalities, but /jp/ really hates fanfics...

Symposyum of Postmysticism confirmed the (quasi)grimdark Touhou setting. Why is this so hard to understand?

>>8972257
>grimdark

out

>>8972245
>>8972260
Get a load of these faggots who apparently didn't read SoPM.

>>8972263
Get a lod of this kid who has no real-world experience.

Stop fucking calling it grimdark. If you think gensokyo is dark, you must be terrified to death of reality.

>>8972263
Your shitty secondary circle will never be canon.
Go spread their grimdarkshit on shrinemaiden or youtube, but not here.

>>8972267
Grimdark is just the term everyone uses when they're terrified of lolis that aren't innocent and safe.

I'm just using the word to make it understood that I'm conveying that meaning.

Touhou is pretty dark.

But definitely not grimdark.

Wild
Cruel
Uncivilized
Dangerous
Savage
Ferocious

Why is /jp/ so fucking stupid sometomes?

>>8972267
>>8972290
The blind denial in the face of proof coming from the word of God itself is astounding. Fine, have it your way.

If something is actively trying to be "grimdark", then to me it isn't.

Or something.

>>8972307
You aren't even reading replied in between your sperging fits of anger, are you.

>>8972312
That would make WH40k, which ended up creating the term "grimdark", not grimdark.

>>8972325
Aside from it being MANRY ACTION rather than grimdark, it was some player that coined the term not the series.

>people die in the real world so touhou isn't dark!

I would be willing to believe this argument if /jp/ wasn't full of basement dwelling neckbeards whose only interaction with death involves occasionally swatting a cockroach.

>>8972352
Which is the same exact reason I find it hilarious when grimdarkfags call gensokyo dark. Its a relative paradise compared to the outside.

Grimdark..? You want to see a Grrrimdark..? Here, I give a full set of GRRRimdark...

Part 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gWyqAjQ7Ug

Part 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn1j6mRwRDY

Part 3:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnIRMXNR6_Y

Part 4:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aqYsKZ-lxg

Part 5:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0jPGFC8PwM

Part 6:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbCLLp2GdPc

Part 7:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IurVPJwGljs

Part 8:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7FqxMw9kr0

Part 9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z6orLeAR2M

Part 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnqvoZWYWLs

Part 11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRK7LD7g8Y

>>8972361
You can have a dark setting that's a relative paradise.

Fuck, that's like the premise of every utopia story ever.

>>8972377
Sure, if you insist on making everything TAINTED and TRAGIC because your mental maturity never advanced past 16. Sure its "dark", but so was the 1700's by that logic, and the only real constant danger would be to outsiders that aren't being protected.

The idea of Touhou being "grimdark" is pretty silly.

>>8972390

Humans are food secretly hunted by a magical society of monsters.

Sure is not dark.

>>8972407
Sure, but that only happens in the outside world where its easy, which makes the outside world dark.

>>8972267
>you must be terrified to death of reality

You should have figured that out solely from the fact that he's posting on /jp/.

>>8972377
The word you're looking for is probably dystopia.

>>8972407
>>8972415
The reliability of Gensokyo Record is around the level of reliability of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

There's a word "secondary" in my captcha.

I read serious/dark doujinshi for the action, I read the moe/silly for the levity, I play the games for the fun/challenge, I read the official works for whatever value they present.

I get tired of people trying to paint the world black or white, I figured /jp/ was better than that.

we've had this thread before, but yes, i love dark colours, it attracts my eyes, and is a welcome change from the pink mysognistic shit japan usually puts out, 2hu or otherwise

>>8972361
>Youkai extermination continues in name only, and abductions are only carried out for show.
>These peaceful, yet stimulating times are surely a golden age for humans and youkai alike.
>-ZUN

NOOOO STOP HAVING FUN!!!! YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO HATE AND KILL EACH OTHER!!!!! T_____T

>>8972449
We just like to debate like religious zealots. It's fun.

Conflict is fun. Argument is amusing. Strife is joy.

>>8972459
You sound like a mantra from 1984

>"I've said it so many times now, Gensokyo is idyllic and pastoral, and is a "peace-addled" kind of a world." -Zun

>>8972442

Youkai eating people from the outside world was mentioned many times.

I've always seen Gensokyo as having a dark "background" rather than being dark at present. After all, supernatural beings were hunted and locked up in there, and for centuries they ate humans alive and killed each other. Then spell cards happened and suddenly things are pretty and A-OK!

It's like a kid's show where in the backstory some evil dark lord murdered planets or whatever, but now he's basically just some clumsy oaf more fixated on capturing magical girls or freezing them in time or something dumb.

>>8972459
Yeah, look at all those silly people thinking we're being gravely serious here, when we're actually doing our board's version of a spellcard battle.

>>8972472
And in the midst of that "peace-addled" world, humans are powerless with no leader, kept alive only because they aren't allowed to go extinct, and there are youkai like Murasa who canonically drown them to death sometimes.

And even if you somehow manage to use enough twisted logic to throw that away, you can't get around the fact that the underground world is different. The youkai there tend to be much closer to how youkai used to be.

> touhou
> grimdark
Division by zero? On my /jaypee/? It's more likely than I thought.
Ok, sage& hide, whoamiquouting, etc.

When will you retards finally get it?

Yes, Gensokyo is pretty peaceful and Gensokyo humans rarely get killed by youkai anymore.

But youkai still eat humans. Humans from the outside world. They are still a bunch of man eating murderers.

>>8972496
Wasn't it mentioned in one of the text files that they organized hunting parties?

I think it's just the human village humans who are protected.

>>8972496
>But youkai still eat humans. Humans from the outside world. They are still a bunch of man eating murderers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. Just get out.

>>8972468
Without conflict, there is no joy to life. How can you appreciate the sweet if you do not know the bitter?

Every day, I read on daily atrocities done by man, then go on to be happy despite everything.

>>8972492
Your source is Akyuu.
Mine is Zun himself.
Who wins?

>>8972501
No, it's not Akyuu. It's also Kanako, Byakuren, and Miko. And even Akyuu cannot be unreliable when it comes to info that any human in the village should easily know (IE. how many humans have been drowned to death recently).

I'm never sure what to think of these sorts of threads when the simplest conclusion could be drawn with a quote from PCB's prologue.

>>8972504

Not him, but what do you disagree with, exactly? The vampire contract only forbids youkai from eating humans from the village.

> Nonetheless, the main diet of youkai is, of course, humans.
> Natural products are especially popular. Food-gathering teams would go out at regular intervals to hunt humans. Of course, the youkai couldn't let the humans know that they were on to them. Under the guise of various accidents and incidents of people running away from home, the youkai hunted humans. A simple missing person would barely even make the news; meanwhile, the humans living in the human world only multiplied.

>>8972472
This is the only thing you need to know.

No matter how many times a character or secondary says black if Zun says white once, it's white.

So we're saying that gensokyo is grimdark because people fro the outside world are kidnapped and eaten? I'm so confused.

>>8972492
>the underground world is different

There are no humans there, for example.

>>8972524
>by Akyuu

>>8972456
Yep.

>>8972529

Nope.

It's PCB prologue.

>>8972529
Actually, no.

>>8972540
>gensokyo record

Kidding mostly, I love all this bickering. I just don't get how youkai nabbing a few humans from the outside makes gensokyo itself dark.

>>8972529
Akyuu counts as canon.

>>8972533

I'm sure there are no ways to exit or enter former hell without going through Gensokyo.

Every evil soul ever went to hell through Gensokyo.

>>8972514
I'm assuming these people are from /a/ and think everything falls into one of two categories:
1) Moe ^__^~
2) GRIMDARK :OO

Both terms are stupid as hell, but neither particularly apply to Touhou. Monsters eat people. This isn't grimdark. When you were 4 years old you were read stories about monsters eating people. Were they grimdark?
Likewise for all the cute parts of Touhou. It can be interpreted as "moe", but really it's no more moe than LoGH or generic pre-"moe" magical girl anime #491, or Pride and Prejudice. Cute girls drink tea, and that makes it "moe"?

I know it's been said already that it's fun to debate, but people are actually rejecting things because it doesn't fit one of their made-up genres. Stop being silly, all of you.

>>8972524
>There is no way I can trust the contents of this record.

>>8972552
Maybe kinda sorta.
The people who say Akyuu isn't canon are idiots, but the people who say everything she says is true are just as stupid.

>>8972529
Inscribed by the 13th shrine maiden of the Hakurei Shrine.

Not that much more reliable than Akyuu. Zun words still holds more value.

>>8972492
That reminds me, if you read ZUN's comments on Youkai Modern Colony, even some the youkai of old find the peace of the surface world appealing.

>>8972525
>>8972529
Ok, so let's just stop thinking and disregard all of the canon details we like, just because they don't agree with our headcanon.

For example, the "HERPADERP AKYUU NOT RELIABLE" bullshit:
>"Additionally, those who have the most realistic perspectives on things are, as expected, the humans of Gensokyo, with their optimal levels of judgment and reasoning. For that reason, instead of myself, I had Akyu come forth."

Hello, word of ZUN.

One statement that Gensokyo is peaceful doesn't mean it's confirmed for safe and innocent. Sure, it's relatively peaceful. Just look at how Reimu lives when incidents aren't happening.

But despite that, we have a world where youkai attack humans all the time, and even though it usually is not fatal, there are times where it is (IE. Murasa). Get over it.

>>8972569
>a world where youkai attack humans all the time

>"Youkai extermination continues in name only, and abductions are only carried out for show." -Zun

It's comfirmed by Zun.

>>8972579
I'm not going to disagree or anything, but how do you abduct for "show" anyways, I mean, you're yanking some guy from reality and its just for the fun of it? What would the random guy think?

>>8972579
That was stated by AKYUU, not Zun.

She also said:
>Humans have no greater enemy than youkai.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Youkai

>>8972582
For pranks.

Pranks which pull teenagers into another world filled with monsters, scarring them for life and giving them an otherworldly fear of the unknown.

GRIMDARK

>>8972585
>"Accordingly, if lives become endangered by something, in most situations, there will be an arranged battle involving humans and youkai." Afterword by Zun

>>8972585
So what, by default youkai being evil wins out over youkai having fun? Good job.

You know that story about how some German and Allied soldiers stopped fighting on Christmas Day, and played a game of football instead? Obviously people on both sides were sick of fighting in the trenches, so they made a brief truce to have a bit of harmless fun to lighten the mood?

That's Gensokyo.

>>8972555
>moe

You keep using that word...

...and I think you should stop and try using English instead. Maybe then what you say will make at least enough sense to justify a reply.

Drop the "GRIMDARK" while you're at it, you may not be using it incorrectly, but people in this thread at large have already proven they're not really being sure what the word means.

>>8972579

Most of the time, not always.

>>8972590
>endangered

Nice job pulling out proof of my claim for me.

Lives being endangered? In my "peace-addled" Gensokyo? It's more likely than you think.

>>8972593
No. Youkai are not evil. But because they often attack humans, humans see them as evil.

So ZUN can actually say that Gensokyo idyllic and peaceful, a people will still call it grimdark.
Fuck, I give up. You people don't know how to be wrong.

Doesn't ZUN make it clear that most of the humans that get abducted into Gensokyo are people who want to die or people that won't be missed (criminals, etc)

I bet Yukari lets every suicide do Ran as a consolation prize before turning him/her into goulash

>>8972599
There's a reason I used scare quotes.

And I was largely agreeing with you. The genres (cue debate whether they're genres) are too vague and vary from person to person.

So Akyuu can actually say that Gensokyo grimdark, a people will still call it idyllic and peaceful.
Fuck, I give up. You people don't know how to be wrong.

>>8972610
I can't help but wonder what sort of excuses were pulled out of peoples' asses when they found out Hina isn't the tragic unfortunate character they wanted her to be.

>>8972569
>there are times where it is (IE. Murasa)

So, when was the last time when i) Murasa attacked someone and ii) it proved fatal? Hmm?

>>8972610
Because pretty much everything in PMiSS and SoPM explains that while it is peaceful and idyllic, there is a lot of stuff that isn't super innocent and safe.

Cue all the autists who get all terrified of the concept that their lolis may not be the friendly human-loving saints everyone thinks they are.

Where's that doujin page with the brown Tewi which basically explains that Gensokyo is little more than a blank canvas with a few outlines that people can colour in as they wish

>>8972616
Nice english, the same Akyuu also called gensokyo peaceful, holy shit.

and ZUN > an unreliable narrator.

>>8972616
Zun's word > anything a 2hu character says herself

>>8972610
> Fuck, I give up.
> 2012
Oh man, come on... I already gave up on that several years ago. Let them believe what thay want to believe.

>>8972619
cue all the autists who figure a few less than innocent descriptions completely transforms gensokyo in to a terrifying place of pure malice and evil.

Like I said, its not black or white, stop with this shit already.

>>8972623
>colour as they wish

That in combination with a brown tewi made me giggle.

>>8972569
But it IS safe. For the residents inside. They abduct humans from the outside world all the time, though, so they don't have to prey on the humans of Gensokyo.

Oh, and speaking of preying on human, you might be thinking of the natural/physical aspect here. When a youkai is said to prey on human, that doesn't necessarily mean they prey on their flesh. Youkai are metaphysical entities, and a good number of them prey on fear/anxiety/hatred/whatever for sustenance. Those comes from humans, but that doesn't mean that they eat humans in the physical sense.

And Murasa never attacked anyone (fatally, anyways) IN Gensokyo. Those ship-sinking murders were done long ago before the border existed, as it's not possible to do that inside Gensokyo anyway (no oceans etc). She's probably changed a bit into a more (relatively) peaceful youkai since then.

>>8972612
>I bet Yukari lets every suicide do Ran as a consolation prize before turning him/her into goulash
Where do I sign up?

>>8972610
Both the "grimdark" and fantasy wonderland are true, but people do not realize that Gensokyo is both at the same time. It is either Black or White for them.

Yuyuko commited suicide and died with lots of regrets, and now wanders forever in the portal plane. This is true.

Yuyuko also forgot all about it and is apparently quite happy now. This is also true.

And for the sake of all in Gensokyo and beyond, it is better if she never moves on. Thus, let her have her tea.

FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, THE JEDI ARE EVIL

>>8972636
Just how strong is the Saigyou Ayakashi, anyway? It can't really be that strong, can it?

>>8972615
>There's a reason I used scare quotes.

The problem is, if the reason was to make what you wrote more coherent, it did not work.

>>8972641
I understood it perfectly fine, I don't see your problem with it.

>>8972621
Not another one of these autists. The autist all but explicitly says that she has killed humans in present day Gensokyo. Everything implies it.

"Oh, well she became more sympathetic towards humans, so obviously she just loves them now and wouldn't dare do a thing to them."
>Nowadays she picks her drowning victims carefully.
Fuck off.

>>8972635
>They abduct humans from the outside world all the time

...according to one particularly and explicitly unreliable source.

>>8972640
Strong enough to pull humans to their deaths. This is very, very bad for the youkai in Gensokyo. Youkai will gain nothing and lose much if all the humans die at once.

If Yuyuko's soul was not sealing it, things would get ugly. Fast.

>>8972661
>The autist all but
I meant article, there.

>>8972663
More of this "I DAHN AGREE ITS NAWT CANON"

Until explicitly proven otherwise, it stays.

>>8972661
>Everything implies it.
>implies it

You have no realiable source. It's your interpretation and thus worthless.

Did you guys hear? ZUN is releasing a special edition of EoSD, where the bullets have been replaced with walkie-talkies.

>>8969406
canon Byakuren, ZUN confirmed

>>8972658
Can you translate it to English for me, then?

>>8972678
>>>/shrinemaiden/
Go back and discuss your DARKNESS and Stripe Pattern there.

>>8972674

Oh, because clearly, even though her power is specialized for killing humans and she is an experienced killer, being a specific type of ghost who kills humans to find companions, and is STILL confirmed to have the same goal of looking for companions, and who STILL drowns people today, with the only known change being that she picks her victims carefully and is a good conversationalist while drowning the ship...

She OBVIOUSLY is just letting them go as soon as she's scared them a bit. Even though this was also not implied. Yours is also just an interpretation, and therefore worthless.

>>8972682
Gensokyo is not 100% grim/dark, its also not 100% moe/cute. In fact its neither, its about what it would be if you made a spacial bubble and put magical monsters and magical heroes together. They'd just settle to peace since there's no point trying to destroy eachother.

>>8972674

mah sauce is Akyuu fuck Zun's shit XD

>>8972669
So it's like Yuyuko with the safety settings turned off? But why don't the youkai just band together and kill it, then?

>>8972692
>"I've said it so many times now, Gensokyo is idyllic and pastoral, and is a "peace-addled" kind of a world."

>>8972703
Can it even be killed? and so long as yuyuko isn't screwing around with it, then there's no particular problem, especially if it were unabled to be destroyed/dispelled.

>>8972663
> Nonetheless, the main diet of youkai is, of course, humans.
> Natural products are especially popular. Food-gathering teams would go out at regular intervals to hunt humans. Of course, the youkai couldn't let the humans know that they were on to them. Under the guise of various accidents and incidents of people running away from home, the youkai hunted humans. A simple missing person would barely even make the news; meanwhile, the humans living in the human world only multiplied.

Before people get upset about the Akyuu thing again, this is from Perfect Cherry Blossom's prologue more than three years before Akyuu was even introduced. I don't remember if PMiSS retconned the prologues to be written by Akyuu, but I consider it strictly meta (and it seems to have been intended as such at the time of its release).

>>8972707
It's wonderful how everyone thinks that this one quote automatically means that no humans can be killed by a youkai or anything of the sort.

>>8972714
>"Accordingly, if lives become endangered by something, in most situations, there will be an arranged battle involving humans and youkai."

Every single event that takes place in Gensokyo--even right before your eyes in the games/manga--is actually Akyuu's interpretation from the far future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreliable_narrator

Nothing is canon. Everything is up for interpretation.

>>8972709
>and so long as yuyuko isn't screwing around with it
And we all know how well that ended up, didn't we?

>>8972719
Absolutely just fine? Yuyuko didn't even know what was in it to begin with if I recall correctly, I don't imagine she's going to try again anytime soon considering the sort of crap that has to be done to get it to work.

>>8972703
I have often asked myself that. The Saigyou Ayakashi might be sealed, but that does not mean that people can get too close to it and not be harmed. As I understand, the Heroines sols were not stolen because they had lots of pieces of Spring in them. And even if you did manage to destroy it, and exorcise Yuyuko in the process, that would only mean that she would re-enter the cycle of reincarnation and be born again, at an unspecified time and location.

Like in the outside world, with not a single soul with the necessary knowledge and skill to stop her from killing those around her.

>>8972695
>grimdark
>moe

I asked you to translate it, not rephrase it. And it's particularly pointless when you leave the exact words that pose a problem intact.

>>8972714
It's true! Also, the characters are all level-headed and clean-mouthed and would never hurt each other. The youkai characters are all born from magic and the humans don't have parents because that would imply intercourse.

Don't forget that Touhou is for children, everyone! Keep shoehorning explanations so we won't harm our sensitive little girl minds!

>>8972717
And do explain how this means that lives never become endangered.

Or, wait. The quote you just gave EXPLICITLY says that lives do get endangered sometimes. Shit, there goes your argument.

>>8972734
>"I've said it so many times now, Gensokyo is idyllic and pastoral, and is a "peace-addled" kind of a world."

>>8972740
We've been through this, autistlord.

>It's wonderful how everyone thinks that this one quote automatically means that no humans can be killed by a youkai or anything of the sort.

>>8972734
endangered != killed

whoops, there goes your argument.

>>8972740
Mentlegen, we have entered an infinite loop!

>>8972746
Endangered = there is a chance of death.

If there is no chance of death, it's not endangered.

>>8972734
In the event, there is no sure implication that it ACTUALLY happens, just in the case that it does.

>>8972734
Yeah, well, your life can become endangered when you choke on dick, for example. GRIMDARK!

>>8972745
>"Accordingly, if lives become endangered by something, in most situations, there will be an arranged battle involving humans and youkai."

>>8972695
Somebody who just got here.

It's not a problem of words, but of blanket terms really. But in the case of views, blanket terms are the easiest words to use to describe them. This is what this thread is about in that people use blanket terms to describe how Gensokyo is and how other people view it. People will call others grimdarkfags or moefags because it's the simplest thing to call them.

There's four groups of people here I'd say which may overlap slightly.

People who view Gensokyo as darker than what most people think of it, people who don't view Gensokyo as being that dark, people who just think Byakuren and company are dark, and people who are trying to refute the previously mentioned group.

For the first two groups, each group believes their view is the more legitimate one when really, it's all just blanket terms. Gensokyo is Gensokyo and what we know of it is what we know of it. Some youkai may eat and kill humans, but some don't, and some we know jackshit about.

The second two groups are basically an argument on Byakuren's morals and Murasa's status as a murderer.

>>8972752
>no implication
>no implication
>no implication

You must be one of those "AKYUU IS WRONG BECAUSE I SAY SO" faggots.

>>8972750
But doesn't imply that they died, you know you're endangered when you're driving? You're in a 1-ton chunk of metal going faster than humans could ever run, a small mistake and you easily could die. Doesn't mean you automatically die though

>>8972764
Cool the autism and stop assuming things until they actually happen. Innocent until proven guilty.

>>8972765
Because there would obviously be a confrontation between humans and youkai as a result of mundane situations like this.

Think a little!

>>8972737

Not him, but I deleted my post. I feel bashful having this much attention applied to my argument. I was basically trying to say that a lot of people are trying to shoehorn it into one of two vague, interpretative and recent "genres" that aren't very well-defined, because that's how a lot of modern media is (particularly anime). If it helps, pretend Touhou was created in the 1980s or earlier.

You can even substitute those words for other ones, and my point would still sort of stand. Imagine someone described Star Wars as a romance or comedy film. It has elements of both, but it's neither! It's a space adventure film. Now if Hollywood created two new types of films that were similar to romances and comedies--let's call them "lovies" and "laughies"--and to some people a "lovie" was just a romance film, and to some people it was something different (same with "laughies"), then it would make the problem even worse. If someone then said, "Oh Star Wars is my favourite lovie of all time!" you would kick them in the teeth. Even if you were living in a universe where Star Wars had been released (as we know it) last year.

>>8972745
>"Youkai extermination continues in name only, and abductions are only carried out for show."

Both Zun and Akyuu hate you. What now?

>>8972730
In another hundred years or so she'd have forgotten all about the perfect cherry blossom incident and becomes curious/bored enough to pull that kind of stunt all over again.

>>8972736
Do you even get to carry that kind of ability when you reincarnate? I'm no expert, but I don't think so, no.

Give me just one fact of youkai killing and/or eating human in modern Gensokyo. Not some mothcovered 1000yearsold story.

One. Fucking. Fact.
Established fact.
F.A.C.T.
You know the word, right?

Not the "Oh so I've herd dat youkai eats dem humies oh ye-esh ye-esh dey eats humies all the time of course I didn't see it with mah eyes bu-ut...".
Not the "Can I eat you? - No you can't! - <danmaku battle with tea afterwards>".

Just give me the fact give me a bodie. A corpse. Or its bloody halfeaten remains.

You can't.

>>8972796
Yuyuko can't do it on her own, she was only able to because Yukari helped her. and they can't do it without people noticing, hence how they got stopped to begin with.

>>8972796
If I remember correctly, in one of the endings said that Yuyuko's reincarnation would carry her previous death evocation skill, thus why it is a bad idea to exorcise her.

>>8972797
>Kisume... I don't really know what she normally does. I think of her as pretty brutal though. Words are useless against her; she'd just chop your head off, stick it in her bucket, and return home. The head you see may not even be Kisume's head.

>>8972816
>she'd

>she would

Examples, not possibilities please, anon.

>>8972816


> I don't really know
> I think of her as
> she'd aka she would
> may not even be

That's not how facts work

>>8972816
Good thing she'll never meet any humans besides Reimu an Marisa who are more than capable of defending themselves.

>>8972797
It can't be text in a game.
It can't be something a character said.
It has to be something ZUN himself said.
Even when ZUN explains that the possibility of something is there or strongly implies it, that's not enough.

ZUN has to explicitly say that a youkai killed/ate a human, right? But let's see just how many things in canon are explicitly confirmed by ZUN rather than merely implied?

Uh... Very very few.

>>8972841
>"I've said it so many times now, Gensokyo is idyllic and pastoral, and is a "peace-addled" kind of a world."

>>8972841
No shit ZUN implies they CAN, they're fucking youkai, they used to all the time.

Doesn't mean they still do, and there's plenty that points towards them preferring peace over terrorizing.

>>8972797
“Youkai eat humans during the night. ”
—Marisa, Imperishable Night

But I guess that was actually Akyuu's interpretation of events based on an old story and Marisa was deluded and it was a mistranslation.

>>8972825
>>8972830
How about
>Perhaps she can't tell that her daily meals are made from living humans. Her meals look like such harmless foodstuffs as cake and tea, after all...
Source: Flandre's profile in EoSD

>>8972797
>The earth spider I just mentioned, Ms. Yamame, said her reason for joining the temple was that "the humans that come to the temple with their worries look so delicious(*15)
>15: She means she wants to eat humans with illnesses. Because illnesses act as seasonings. Mental illnesses are spicy.

>be they youkai or human, she eliminates them with tremendous power no matter what.

>Even though she looks young, she eats humans

>Are you the kind of person I can eat?

Took a minute to find those quotes. I bet there are many more.

>>8972850
>>8972851
We're not denying either of these things. Again, think a little!

Even in a peaceful world, deaths happen sometimes. Or is that too "grimdark" for you?

Maybe just the more humanoid youkai don't eat people because they're people themselves?

i dunno lol ¯\(°_o)/¯

>>8972864
Those are people who die of suicide in the outside world.

Just don’t fuck a youkai 2hu

"Kisume... I don't really know what she normally does. I think of her as pretty brutal though. Words are useless against her; she'd just chop your head off, stick it in her bucket, and return home." - Zun Symposium Interview

>>8972858
I am curious, where does it say that again? I can't find it.

>>8972866
>Mental illnesses are spicy.
Oh boy

>>8972864
She was being idiomatic, duh:
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Embodiment_of_Scarlet_Devil/Story/Marisa%27s_Scenario#Final_Stage

>Interesting. So you really drink it?
>You know, *that*.

>...You can eat me.

Lewd.

>>8972866
>she'd
>would
>Akyuu

Yuyuko ate Mystia alive and got a bone stuck in her throat.

It's canon. ZUN agreed, don't bother him about it.

>>8972872
So if you don't have a humanoid form, you're not a person?

So if you have a humanoid form, you're automatically a person?

What is a person anyway?

They all have complex thoughts and are sentient, yes. Does that automatically mean that none of them ever kill a human? No.

>>8972866
So, where's the body? Who died?

>>8972841
>But let's see just how many things in canon are explicitly confirmed by ZUN rather than merely implied?

Everything in the mangas/books/games? All the things that have actually, you know, happened?

>Most outsiders that get caught by youkai either get eaten at once, or get eaten once the youkai lose interest in them.
From PMiSS

Yes, yes, Akyuu.

>>8972868
My problem is not that it happens, just that it only really happens to outsider, hence why ZUN said its a paradise only because the residents are all on equal footing on average.

>>8972894
Sakuya is also dead, Marisa eats people, etc.

and Mystia sure looks dead here, eh?

>>8972346
"In the grim darkness of far future there is only war."

Doesn't take much evolution to come up with the term grimdark.

>>8972892
>So, where's the body? Who died?

Okay, how specific does this have to be for you?
Like someone has to die, have a post-mortem, and be confirmed eaten by a youkai?

You're being far too obtuse. There it is, on screen, that humans have been consumed by a youkai.
Are you the "PC-98 is canon" guy from the other thread?

>>8972892

Next you will want autopsy's results with ZUN's signature.

You people are pathetic.

>>8972880

I always love how Kisume being a rampaging monster comes up pretty often in the games (at least in the things Aya says about her in Double Spoiler), but she's too adorable for any fan artists to depict her as such.

Well, at least I've never seen any grimdark Kisume yet, I haven't exactly looked for it specifically. Rumia being a flesh eating monster is a very common interpretation, and she's calm enough to actually hold a conversation with the heroines.

>>8972892
Zun isn't going to introduce a character just for the sole purpose of killing them off to some youkai. Akyuu says people die, either from youkai or youkai diseases. That's the best we'll get. Yes Akyuu exaggerates youkai danger levels, but she wouldn't outright lie as it ruins the creditability of her work.

>>8972915

read >>8972851

Is "youkai don't eat humans" a new troll or something? That's a given of the series. Even fucking shrinemaiden would be like, "Well, duh."

Hey guys, Reimu isn't a shrine maiden. Find me one quote that says she's actually a shrine maiden. It can't be a character title or anything because that's out of character, it can't be dialogue because she lies, and it can't be any of the books because it's possible they were written by or derived from Akyuu.

>>8972932

Zun afterword:
>"I've said it so many times now, Gensokyo is idyllic and pastoral, and is a "peace-addled" kind of a world."
>"Accordingly, if lives become endangered by something, in most situations, there will be an arranged battle involving humans and youkai."

Akyuu foreword:
>"Youkai extermination continues in name only, and abductions are only carried out for show."
>"These peaceful, yet stimulating times are surely a golden age for humans and youkai alike."

Both Zun and Akyuu hate you. What now?

>>8972932
Part of a shrinemaiden's job is to exterminate youkai, so its not out of place for one to exaggerate their danger.

and sure, it is retarded to argue that no youkai kills no humans, but its rare to begin with, and mostly if not all cases of outsiders.

>>8972942
I get the feeling you're reverse trolling at this point.

>>8972942
Neither of ZUN's quotes contradict the idea that youkai eat humans. Nature reserves are peaceful, but the animals still eat each other.

>Youkai eat humans
Marisa hates you.

>>8972915
So, in 14 games, 14 volumes of manga (I counted), 2 novels, and four fanbooks, you can't find even one example of ayone dying, yet insist it happens all the time? And then you call me pathetic?

>>8972955
>"Accordingly, if lives become endangered by something, in most situations, there will be an arranged battle involving humans and youkai."

People die when eaten. But canon says they don't die.

>>8972955
>Marisa hates you

I don't know why you keep saying that considering it was REIMU who said it, not Marisa.

>>8972961
This way you can disregard almost all characters' abilities.

>>8972962
Technically, you can eat them partially, so that they're still alive afterwards.

牧歌的 = people are not eaten by monsters?

>>8972968
More likely than you think, I get the feeling its more showy than meant to be real.

>>8972962
Perhaps he means specific humans, i.e. the ones from the human village who are specifically covered under a pact that, if broken, would lead to an arranged battle between humans and youkai?

Outside world humans are fair game. Flandre eats humans. Marisa says youkai eat humans at night. The prologue for Perfect Cherry Blossom quite clearly explains how the youkai eat outside world humans discreetly. We don't need a graphic depiction of a youkai eating a human in a manga or whatever, because it never comes up. We don't see Sakuya going for a piss, either. This is a story, we are told something happens, it is part of that story.

>>8972968
That's a good observation. Yes, I can, and people actually do it all the time.

Also, the fact that we don't actually know what Touhous are truly capable of has long been accepted, and people who read the ability descriptions literally and then take them to their logical extremes have long been looked down upon and accused of powerlevel wankery.

>>8972998
>"I've said it so many times now, Gensokyo is idyllic and pastoral, and is a "peace-addled" kind of a world."

>>8973009
You mean I'm not supposed to take Omnipotence Sign "The Complete, Unhindered Ability to do Anything" literally?

>>8973016
>Why is Gensokyo a paradise for both humans and youkai? That's because everyone has enough power to defeat youkai in combat, which is, of course, anything but boring.

Stop it for fuck's sake, its a great place for those who can fend off the regular low-level youkai, and perhaps outsiders that manage to get to the village and live there long enough. Are you trying to be a parody or something?

That night, the six men held a party in a style from a foreign country. I, the youngest, could not yet inbibe alcohol nor smoke opium, so I found it all to be terribly boring. I secretly snuck away from where the party was, but in the darkness I was caught by a sinister clown. I was immediately beheaded. I will never again be capable of even boredom. After that, there were five honest men left.
I ran until I couldn't breathe anymore. Being the most cowardly of the group, I was so afraid of this paradise. This was only to be expected, but no matter how far I ran, I couldn't find a way back to our home. All the people I cared about had disappeared, and I thought I had no more reason to live, so in my despondence I threw a rope over a branch and hanged myself. ...Yet somehow, I'm still conscious. Was the rope too weak...? I, the most cowardly of the group, had been reborn. I have nothing to lose, so why don't I try pretending to be human just once more?
This paradise had erected a perfect building to act as our home. An old-looking, western style building deep within the forest always happily served us. But there's always a lot of food waiting for us, and we can only ever go through half of it. Our group of honest men had fallen to half strength at some point.
You were such an incredible fool.
Don't you understand how the honest men look like fools?
Don't you think that sharpened sense from long ago has dulled with such a peaceful lifestyle?
Don't you want to hear the bustle of the city once again? Don't you miss the fortune and prosperity?
There are eight less people in this paradise, "Gensokyo", and seven corpses were carried off by youkai. Gensokyo has lost these honest men forever. It's just a change in the population count.
Not important news in the least.

Deaths in gensokyo aren't notable.

>>8972998
Flandre may, in fact, eat humans. Who knows. We've seen vampires (Remilia) eat numerous times, however, and the meal was never composed of human parts so far.

Yuyuko says she ate Mystia. Touhous say the darndest things. The only true fact is that they said them.

PCB prologue has been explicitly described by ZUN himself as unreliable.

>>8973036
Where's this from?

>>8973036
>That's right, I realized I was being nailed to a tree, and I couldn't move. Just which of the two was doing this to me? Then, the final nail went through my forehead.

Dead people are unreliable narrators.

>>8973036
>"I've said it so many times now, Gensokyo is idyllic and pastoral, and is a "peace-addled" kind of a world."

>>8973049
Dolls in Pseudo Paradise
>>8973052
Someone else saying there are deaths is unreliable, and the perspective of people dying is also unreliable? You must be joking. Especially since a removed narrator says they all died in the end.

>>8973059

In case you didn't notice guys who were getting slaughtered also called it a paradise.

>>8973036
>from a foreign country
We already know that some outside humans who die are fed to youkai.

>>8973069
>"Accordingly, if lives become endangered by something, in most situations, there will be an arranged battle involving humans and youkai."

>>8973069
No, they (and Reimu) called it a 楽園 (pleasure garden).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasure_garden

It's been said a bajillion times that youkai tend to be peaceful (if a little self-centred) folk. That's probably why Gensokyo is how it is now. But if humans hunted me and my family for centuries, and they also happened to taste delicious, I wouldn't mind murdering five or six of them in cold blood for a snack. And I'm sure if everything became fine again, you'd get those dickheads who insist on still eating people.

uhm, I just can't understand why some people find it like an insult. as long its generated from human mind (please note how I avoid saying "fictional") there's place from everything, from comedy to drama.

>>8973081

Exceptions and accidents happen.

Guys what if youkai are peaceful and humans are the monsters.

>>8973036
That whole thing is incoherent, I especially like the title ZUN gave himself in the afterward.

>>8972961

Do bunnies count?

>>8973101
楽園 translates to paradise as well. Don't be silly.
ハワイは地上の楽園とよばれている。Hawaii is called an earthly paradise. http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1Q%B3%DA%B1%E0_1_

>>8973111
I don't see why people don't like the opposite. I love it when a series is just "a comedy" or "a drama". Sure they have other elements, but when you try to fit a billion things together and avoid clichés or whatever it becomes a garbled mess. Storytellers have known this for millennia, yet artistic people insist on being deep and making a "new type" of genre X which isn't genre X but something completely different.

I like Touhou for this reason because it is what it is. You can argue about the details among yourselves, but ultimately it's a game where you're a cute girl shooting bullets at other cute girls in a generic (but interesting!) fantasy setting. It's not the lowest common denominator, but it's not "art" either.

>>8973118
>That whole thing is incoherent,

How so? I followed it perfectly. Though in English, because I'm a baka.

>>8973036
"Youkai? You've got to be kidding." But, I know. That the youkai would live in peace if the humans would let them. That youkai are more peaceful and pragmatic than humans.

>The CD was actually originally released at Comiket 62 on August 11, 2002, alongside Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, but was re-released later at Comiket 63, including a different story from the original.

It's like ZUN is actively trying to un-write every GRIMDARK thing he ever did.

>>8973153
Of course. He realized people play 2hu for cute girls and decided to get rid of the stuff the autists clutching their security blankets were uncomfortable with.

>>8973129
Damn, Yama is laying some hard truths on her and looking pretty fucking happy about it...and Reisen seems to be brushing it off like "whatever, man."

>>8973146
Nobody's denying that, dude. War and peace may basically be opposites, but you can be peaceful people while having the odd quarrel. Picture the most peaceful kingdom/race/religion/whatever from history that you can think of. Assuming it's quite sizeable, they'll have had their battles and murders and perhaps full-scale wars.

>>8973164
or because he wasn't fond of writing that pretentious dark garbage an opted for something that made a little more sense.

Gensokyo is a paradise. Youkai do NOT EAT GENSOKYANS. They do at times, but still rarely, eat outsiders taken from the outside world. One of the few youkai who still eats humans and attacks them, rumia, is absolutely awful at it, that should say a good deal about the setting. Nobody dies in fights, everybody fights with danmaku on the spellcard rule system which is a wholly nonlethal form of duel. And no matter how grim a touhous past is, hard past does not make someone an emotionless hateful shell of a person by any means. People dont really "die" in gensokyo anyway. Gensokyo is a wonderful place.

>>8973166
Except gensokyo is likely about 2 valleys in size with a few scattered villages, there's not much to fight over/about

and I was actually quoting the same thing the one I pointed to was quoting.

>>8973191
Seems like Gensōkyō needs some more Lebensraum.

>>8973139
Now I realize why I felt like it was incoherent, didn't notice there had been two releases.

>>8973183
>Gensokyans

I've seen a few /jp/ers use this. Shouldn't it be "Gensokyoite" to match "Tokyoite" and similar?

>>8973191
But it presumably has a population of thousands. Hell, a town a few miles away from me was voted one of the safest places to live. People still get into fights there.

Reminded me of the one doujin where Flandre awaits forever for Marisa to come visit her. She battles Remilia (she thinks her sister is forbidding Marisa from visiting her) and finds out in the end that Marisa had died of old age years ago.

Made me tear up a bit in fact.

>>8973222
It should be Gensokyo-jin you plebian.

>>8973237
Marisa is going to become immortal. I couldn't cry at such fanon bullshite.

>>8973222
oh my, but that's so hard to read, and sounds a little rude.

>>8973237
That’s sad.

>>8973242
What if she fails? And how is that fanon?

>>8973238
>-jin
­>non-humans

Who the hell aren't I quoting?

>>8973237
This is worse

>>8973132
You sound like someone straight from TVTropes.

Here's a hint: there's a reason "generic" is a derisive word.

>>8973251
>non-humans

Explain "uchuu-jin" then.

>>8973237
Do you remember the name?

Strictly speaking I prefer comedy, but I read a lot of things.

>>8973254
lol
I just
peed
from my eye
just a little though
;__;

>>8973153
The second edition one with the different story is the 'honest men' story.

>>8973255
English isn't my native language, so it's possible I missed something. Maybe "general" would be better?

Star Wars is a good example. It even followed the whole "hero's journey". But even without all the filmmaking stuff it did, it was just a fun movie.

Also TV Tropes scares me. It leads to the sort of meta-meta-thinking I like to avoid (and you should too).

>>8973261
It's Aozora Market's Scarlet and Scarlet

Bird youkai show amazing resilience to dying while eaten.

Although I'll admit this rout definitely isn't cannon, and the few people I know who take the "no one dies in Gensokyo" view of things pretty much discount this rout and the entire extra stage as having ever existed.

>>8973280
nice. by the way: we all concord on the point grimdark=/=guro I hope.
I will not ask sauce.

>>8973326
concord?

and probably, guro'd be less likely than your grimdark

>>8973309
That's the C62 version, the first one. The second one tht was released in C63 is the really strange one with weird comments the go all over the place..

>>8973322

read >>8972901

Jokes are made regularly, doesn't mean much.

>>8973343

Assuming that everything that disagrees with you is a joke isn't a very good argument.

And that still leaves the extra stage, unless the in game messages the game gives you about Mokou resurrecting mid-fight are also jokes, which is a very confusing concept if the game itself can make jokes (and would also make the ending conversation about dieing constantly being painful make no fucking sense whatsoever)

>>8973382
The image also counts, Mystia is doing pretty well for someone who got "eaten". Which is WHY we know its a joke, same with Sakuya's example.

>>8973313
Oh. I was commenting on the first paragraph, I didn't even notice you actually used the word later on. And it is the correct term for what you tried to convey. Not that I agree with what you tried to convey, that is, since I don't believe anyone ever tried to base his works on a rationalization of a shmup gameplay before.

Basically, the point is, no storyteller writes to fit the genre, it's just a post factum classification. They write to tell a story. Different stories require different styles and techniques, and it simply does not matter whether you reuse old ones or create your own. The only thing that matters is what you manage to convey.

>>8973393
>no storyteller writes to fit the genre, it's just a post factum classification.

i think people are aware theyre writing a "fantasy novel" or they want to make a "romance movie" d00d

>>8973412
Oh god.

Sure, if someone is writing a love story, they can obviously guess it'll be classified as romance. What does not happen is people thinking "I'm now writing a romance, so I think I need to put some lovers in".

>>8973392

Not necessarily. There's 4 routes in IN, with 2 endings at most 2 routes can be considered cannon. The other two are at best what might have happened if a different group of people solved the moon incident.

Mystia is only blatantly said to have been eaten in 1 route. It's just as likely that route isn't the official one as it is that almost every line of dialog from stage 2 to 5 is a joke (considering Yuyuko's character it could go either way and I wouldn't be surprised, but her joke really doesn't make a lot of sense if she's not eating anything on her midnight snack tour).

Guys, I cannot possibly express the love I feel for you. Fighting over this as if it was a matter affecting the well being of everyone in the planet fills me with immense joy.

>>8973446
Extra backstory proves all 4 routes happened.

>>8973451

Wait what? Explain to me how stage 4 isn't a plothole if that is true please, I'm honestly pretty curious.

>>8973446
and her "midnight snack tour" wasn't just a running gag rather than doing what the other groups were.

>>8973261
Sadly I don't. Something I read about 2 years ago I think.

>>8973465
That Anon speaks the truth apparently.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Imperishable_Night/Afterword

>Kaguya "Oh yes, that's right. Make sure you go on this trial of guts as a 2-person team like you did when you came to me. That way if anything happens to one of you, we'll find out quickly."

>>8973465
I would like to know that too. Either you need to ask ZUN himself, or just assume that chronological and causal inconsistencies are just a side effect of a larger rule of Gensokyo not being bound by common sense.

>>8973502
>or just assume that chronological and causal inconsistencies are just a side effect of a larger rule of Gensokyo not being bound by common sense.

I think we've finally found the solution to this entire thread.

>>8973446
Marisa in Symposium is talking about Mystia's punk concert so she's alive.

>>8973608
Now, this doesn't really prove much. People were talking about things Yuyuko does, too, and she's certainly not alive.

>>8973696

Never thought of that, but you're right. Gensokeyo has gaping holes ripped into at least 3 different afterlives, death must be an almost meaningless concept.

>>8973696
Ghosts tend to be fairly obviously ghosts, best likelyhood is she didn't eat Mystia.

Yuyuko and the Prismriver sisters are ghosts right? So at one moment they were alive and well but at another they had died. So people do die in Gensokyo!

>>8974622
They died in real life. Real life canon is separate to Gensokyo canon.

>>8974629
Yuyuko died before gensokyo, not sure about the prismrivers.

and its a given that gensokyo was likely a dangerous place immediately after its sealing, its just that things have settled down since then.

You have to remember, if youkai do exist only in that they are remembered like gods and faith, its also much easier considering its such a small space and population, its just every day fact in gensokyo, whereas it was always whispered legends among the villages in the outside world. This probably explains the increased power of youkai in gensokyo, despite their more peaceful attitudes.

>>8974622
The human sisters of the Prismriver family are all dead, but the Prismriver Sisters are not their ghosts.

>>8973242
>Marisa is going to become immortal.
Fanon bullshit detected.

Hey real nice you guys, thanks for having this fucking thread without me.

Jerks.

>>8974730
Marisa eats children and that's why she's on bad terms with the human village.

Discuss.

>>8974727
Not quite immortal maybe but she could certainly became a youkai like Alice did and live for centuries.

>>8974743
It's certainly possible, but you can't take it as a fact.

Don't have fantasies about being transported to Gensouyko and running for your life scared, only to be knocked out chained up in the scarlet devil mansion while Flan rapes you like an animal for months on end until you devote yourself to her and live happily ever-after in a faithful relationship?

You don't know shit about the touhous.

wwww