/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>8496012

>中国ってまじウンコだな。掲示板の管理人が削除しねぇ、鯖も反応しね
ぇ
どうするよ
>[Chinese piracy websites] sure are pieces of shits. Neither forum operators nor ISPs respond to take down requests, what should we do?

>普通に中国政府 suggestion@mail.gov.cn 宛に通報メールを書いて
ccで掲示板管理人と鯖管のメルアドを入れとけばいいんでないかい。
政府の役人が読もうが読むまいが、一定の効果はあると思うが。
>You can just send an email to the government. Write down your complain, include the forum name and server info. [...] It might have an effect.

>そもそも中国はエロ禁止だから、そっち方面で中国の行政にアピールし
たら?
>Since porn is illegal in China, why don't we appeal to them from an anti-pornography stance?

>同人誌をShareに流したって起訴なんてあり得ない。これを作ったのはどこ
のサークルのやつだ？
>I can't imagine being prosecuted for doujin piracy. Which circle are you from, faggot?


Also, there actually exists an anti-doujin piracy wiki. Horey shit. http://www35.atwiki.jp/dldojin/

What do you guys think about this? Fear mongering? Japanese nationalists getting riled up over nothing?

I say let the Chinese continue to pirate Japanese Porn... its not like they have any culture left after decades of communist guidance.
I kinda feel sorry for them...

I can understand doujin circles being annoyed at people taking their works for free, but realistically, their works will spread to China and places such as /jp/ who in all likelihood wouldn't be able to purchase them anyway.

Fearmongering, anyway.

China sucks balls.

>>8496032

China is responsible for a good amount of Comiket uploading that /jp/ enjoys.

>>8496018
porn is illegal in china?

Controlling the doujin industry you say, do you have idea of the number of fanworks released in every Comiket?
Bureaucracy = bad.

>>8496047

Yes. All Chinese porn distro is done underground, and you technically can't bring pornographic material into the country.

Poor chinks, let them have what little they can get for their fap material.

>>8496031
> I can understand doujin circles being annoyed at people taking their works for free

Because they pay royalties for using characters and settings from established commercial works, right?

Japs sure are hypocrites.

>>8496066
Yeah, I find it weird too. It's like they forgot who they are and what their products are based on.

The one situation where /jp/ is sympathetic to China.

>>8496066

Exactly. A lot of popular doujins (and 99% of comiket) is based on ORIGINAL WORK DO NOT STEAL anyway. I don't see what the problem is.

>>8496066

That doesn't negate the effort the put into what they do or the value it holds to other people, and all art of any kind is derivative.

>>8496077

Like charging money for Oblivion mods

>>8496012
>It is only a matter of time before you start seeing arrests in your own prefecture, even if they were previously unheard of.
Yeah right

>>8496156

Well if you're in the 3D/graphic design industry, it's etiquette to buy the licenses once you're actually employed or start your own studio.

Until then, most students pirate.

i have great difficulty believing that the japanese people making things like doujins, MMD videos, models, music, etc. actually buy the expensive software like photoshop, AdobeAftereffects, etc. which they all use.

>>8496298
they don't

>Which circle are you from, faggot?
That's hilarious! I take it to mean, "What circle are you from? The faggot circle?"

I don't know what to think.
I couldn't possibly afford to buy more than even 10% of the stuff that I want and need. I just love doujin music so much. To think that the creators don't want to me to enjoy their music makes me want to cry.

DEAL WIV IT LMFAAOOOOOOOO!!!
OWND 4 LIF

>>8496371

I know how you feel.
I grew up listening to a lot of hippy music and always believed that music is something free, like love.
A beautiful gift of life, and something that you can give to others to enjoy.

It's nice to support artists financially if possible, so they can buy better equipment and make even more beautiful music, but beyond that I can't see how people justify wanting money for their music, or even worse not wanting people to hear it because they are unable to attend a particular event or live in another country.

>>8496426

fag

>>8496435
Get out. The spirit of love and gentleness is a big part of being a /jp/sie.

>>8496451

haha, you're even more of a joke than I thought

>>8496098
People have the right to ask for compensation for an effort they put in a work, lest it is mandated to be illegal to do so. Taking money from Oblivion mods, which are direct from source derivative, that is, it's made on top of the actual game, might be illegal, and if it was, it would be strictly enforced because big business and America. Doujins, however, are a different thing. For one, the laws are different, and I won't pretend to know how they work there, and two, they're mostly separate works, only partly derivative like story, characters and some are protected in lieu of parody. Thus, given the legality of their works, which I assume they are, since they aren't getting raided every comiket, they have the right to ask for money for their original derivative works. MUCH more so for the completely original works.

tl;dr: Your analogy is ill-informed and leading to a wrong conclusion. Get out.

>>8496481
no u

>>8496435

You're right, that was pretty gay even for /jp/
Disregard everything I said and replace it with $ signs

>>8496034
But not really.
Most Chinese uploaders upload to a Chinese-only forum, which then forces you to sign up, give a paragraph in Chinese for why you're signing up, waiting forever until an administrator accepts your request (1/100 chances they won't) and then make 50+ posts until you can be given access to it.
It's fucking bullshit, I tell you.

There's been this article going around recently how software pirates are preserving the legacy of computer software that would be otherwise abandoned, I always thought of doujinshi piracy the same way.
The creators really should release their work for free once they no longer plan to reprint them, it really makes me sad how many things are forgotten.

So they deserve money why exactly? That's right, they don't. The only reason anyone would agree with this is because they're a whipping boy of the system. Their word is worth as much as mine, and I say I don't give a fuck. Who do these faggots think they are saying I have to pay for this shit?
If they don't want me to read or listen to their shit, then don't make it or don't release it. I really hope one of those faggots reads this.

It's funny because the very websites that share them aren't making that much money due to all the loli, copyright and shit involved driving advertisers away.

Hilarious, if you really intended on making money then don't expect to make it with cheap pornography.
Doujin is just a hobby and shall remain as such.

The people who make music/games tho, I feel sorry for them, but they should find a legal way to make money from foreigners rather than trying to stop distribution.
We have stuff like bitcoins and paypal, goddamnit, even nicodouga has its own currency system.
Frontier Aja actually made some money from selling their touhouvania game on the internet. It's better than nothing.

Piracy is excusable, really, if the only way to buy a short arcade stg is to pay $3000 on a trip to japan for 3 days only to wait in a ridiculous queue in a some obscure geek event.

Maybe if 99% of doujin artists weren't complete hacks doing porn maybe they'd be actually employed.

it's normal for people to get pissed at how others get things for free when they have to pay for the same thing


how is this new to anyone

>>8496481

You have to understand that Japanese companies are known for looking the other way in regards to piracy. If they really wanted to, companies responsible for anime production would've shut down Comiket a long time ago, but they don't because it's good publicity.

This was one of the reasons why FN had such strong opposition on /jp/. It flew in the face of the culture of digital piracy.

OP,
I asked on Saturday and I'll ask again:
What is the name of the movie that you got your thread image from?

I love Japanese delinquency films, so please do tell.

>>8496825

I'm not the original poster of the image, I actually pulled it off that thread before it was meido'ed.

Sorry bro. This image might go down in 4chan history as one of the most elusive sauceless images ever.

Maybe doujin artists should charge money per request.

Makes more sense in my head.

>>8496825
>>8496841

From rGIS. This might be it

http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Be-Bop_High_School

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ILeqwGwy8U

Tokyo tosho leads are dead. It might be up on Asian DVD Club though.

>>8496841
Thanks. Maybe the OP from Saturday will come and post agai. It's unlikely, but if he does will someone here tell me?
I'm here all the time, so I should be available.

But about your thread....
I think no matter what it will continue. Japan's people are all misrible and most them turn emty eventually. They grab hold of the fantasy they produce to excape the modern dungen they build after the fall of Japanese Imperialism/culture. Both men and women are clueless of what love is so they have misrible marriages, thus the sexual perverssions come, then a cycle of immorality. They find no meaning in life and then the society will die........

Signs already point to this.
Dojiins aren't going to destroy Japan; They will do it to them selves.
In America big piraters are doing big time in Jail, but people still do it. That's hy they are trying to limit the internet......they say.....
righhyhht that's why..........

It's pathetic how some faggots here pretend people don't deserve getting paid. IF doujins are legal in Japan (and this is the most important point), then the people who spend their time making doujins ARE ENTITLED to sell them at a price (or at no price at all). You ARE ENTITLED to give them the middle finger if you don't agree that doujins should cost anything. Or you could just disregard everything and pirate anyway, but at least you don't pretend the world owes you those chinese drawings.

This isn't like video games or software where DRMs encroach upon our rights and privacy. This is simply a one-time transaction. It's acceptable to demand compensation (and you refuse by not buying). What might NOT be acceptable is how they are going to enforce this. Seeing that most companies are morally bankrupt, it probably won't be surprising to see them overstep their authority and shut down competition.

>>8496922
I don't think anybody here has said that doujin circles shouldn't sell goods, but good job beating that hypothetical faggot into the ground. You sure showed him

>Seeing that most companies are morally bankrupt, it probably won't be surprising to see them overstep their authority and shut down competition.
Most doujin circles have slightly more authority in that department than the average 2ch user.

>>8496922

OP here. Actually, a lot of the posters in the original 2ch thread are pro-DRM.

>>でもプロテクトが当たり前になると今度は破るのも当たり前になるか
らね・・・
>>But if DRM becomes the industry standard, DRM-breaking will naturally follow

>破った奴が刑事罰くらうのも当たり前になるのか・・・ゴクり
>Yeah, don't be surprised if you get fined for DRM-breaking

fix'd

>>8496919

You should browse with 4chan plus/X so the thread refreshes everytime a reply comes up. It's really useful. Anyway, >>8496871

>>8496871
Oh wow thanks.
I only saw one clip online and it didn't show enough to let me know if it was a delinquency type of movie, but know I know and knowing is half the battle.
I think the DVD was released in my country and I usually am able to find and buy some how.
Good to see another Japanese movie junky like me.

>>8496944
OH man that is just too funny. I am going to post this on reddit.

>>8496950

I don't get it

>>8496944
>doke

try again

>>8496945
Thanks.
I mainly post through my PS3 though.....................
The last couple times I posted on my two separate computers they both crashed.......... -__-'
No one did it from here did I think. IJust being here leaves my software valnerable some how I think........
I have virus protection on both and they crashed right after posting here too
........................
........................
..........................

>>8496922

>IF doujins are legal in Japan

If you aren't familiar with Japanese law, maybe you shouldn't be having a strong opinion about this sort of thing in the first place.

It's like saying IF Islam is responsible for honor killings and female genital mutilation, Islam is a terrible religion! Fuck Islam! If it's actually responsible for it.

>>8496012
in the name of the lord i here bless this post with a bump..

>>8496974
I'm not this guy, but here's the gist of Japanese law:
Unlike the USA, copyright does not lapse if you fail to enforce it. The main reason why the lawyers come out to play when fanworks appear in America (and most other Western) countries is because the copyright can actually be lost if those works remain unchallenged. In Japan, this is not the case - the existence of an unapproved yet unchallenged fanwork does not put the original copyright at risk. The doujin market is ignored by most copyright holders because they have nothing to gain from stamping it out, and a lot of goodwill to lose.

>>8497146 Continued...

Now, as for the issue at hand, I think it's stupid. Once upon a time, most doujins barely offset the printing costs. When it came to games, it was usually as simple as sending a miniscule fee (around 600 yen) for a CD-R in the mail, or basically nothing (maybe 200 yen) if you included a blank CD-R and a SASE. Fanworks-as-business (and I'm using fanworks here to differentiate derivatives based on other people's works from original self-published works) is never going to be respected. The people who do produce original self-published work do have a right to complain, but that leads me to my next point...
Japan is bass-ackwards when it comes to the Internet. A great deal of this wouldn't even be an issue if everything was just available on fucking dlsite for small (500 yen or less) fees. It's going to take years before Japan learns how to Internet and discovers that DRM doesn't and will never fucking work. Hell, there are always active threads on 2ch dedicated to breaking whatever retarded protection has been slapped on the latest visual novels. If the producers of original works would just make it easier to buy the damn thing than trekking to fucking Comiket and standing in line for hours with the nastiest nerds on the planet, then piracy would be a non-issue: the remaining pirates wouldn't have bought it anyway, and the ones who would have bought it but were unable to are now able to purchase it.

>>8497146
That's not true at all. You can't lose your copyright by not enforcing it in the US. You're thinking of trademark law.

>>8497146

>Unlike the USA, copyright does not lapse if you fail to enforce it.

Yeah I'm with >>8497153 here. That simply isn't true.

>>8497147

Distribution isn't the only problem. For example, iTunes has pretty much every kind of popular digital content from TV shows to music available, but there's no telling if it helped curb piracy.

I'm not going to pay Paramount $70 for a season of DS9. That's just unreasonable.

Uh...

None of you fucking know how things are done legally in Japan it looks like.

Cloud sharing -> Illegal
Sharing between individuals that know who, where and their contact information -> Perfectly legal.

Finds the guys with ftp sites that ask for information. It's never a problem.

Okay, so, doujins, which are technically illegal but overlooked, and are themselves forms of copyright infringement-these things are going to be stringently policed for copyright infringement? The fuck?

How does that even work? How does an author have some sort of IP right to a work that is itself a violation of copyright?

Why is Japan so fucking retarded?

>>8497217

We're talking about the viability of doujin as a content producer, specifically in context of doujin as an adaptation of a copyrighted original work.

>>8497219

>How does an author have some sort of IP right to a work that is itself a violation of copyright?

Dunno, why don't you ask them. You don't need a Japanese IP to post on 2ch.

Jesus, japs are such a bunch of huge faggots.

i dont see the big deal about cyberpiracy, its going to happen no matter what all it takes is 1 stupid person and their friend no matter how many laws to make there will always be a way around them, you know it'll never go away even if its been "stamed" out some where it'll still happen some pirates do it as a last resort other dont if you ask me some japanese along with westerners and anyone else in the fucking world are hypocrites they do the same thing as anyone else given the chance. its like those fucking lolishit mods for Elder Scrolls games & Fallout people who make those charge money for others to use when the company isnt geting royalties same goes for the people who post cracked VNs for people to download.
hell i bet some of you have downloaded doujins and wish you'd be able to pay them back but its a pain in the ass to get shipping from places like that plus the taxes, i dont see why they cant use paypal or at very lest get a money order.

>>8497234
>i dont see why they cant use paypal or at very lest get a money order.

They simply do not give a shit about you/us.

>>8497153
>>8497191
Wrong and wrong. Look up Jarrow Formulas, Inc. v. Nutrition Now, Inc, and any of the cases that cite it. It's called laches, and while there are arguments that it shouldn't apply to copyright, current interpretation is that it does. Also check out "The Defense of Laches in Copyright Infringement Claims" by VK Didwania for a thorough analysis.

>>8497260

Interpretation is very vague for lache-- I don't think there is precedent on how quick you need to file a complaint or a lawsuit before a copyright gets thrown out of the window. It may affect how much damages are awarded and such, but it's irresponsible to say that you completely lose your copyright if you don't enforce it.

Obviously if a copyrighted work has been in unauthorized circulation for 10 years on the internet and nothing has been done in the mean time, there's little case for the copyright holder.

>>8496012
if any of those 2cher are reading this, they can suck my western ass

>>8497147
> If the producers of original works would just make it easier to buy the damn thing than trekking to fucking Comiket and standing in line for hours with the nastiest nerds on the planet, then piracy would be a non-issue
It's already easier than that, so apparently you're wrong.

>>8497277
But the point is, that's the fear that often drives the lawyer stampede. Japanese law is very explicit about the opposite, which is why it doesn't happen there.

>>8497306

Point taken. But I don't think that's WHY Japanese companies don't pursue copyright infringement in doujin market. Like the other anon said, you lose a lot of goodwill and it's a bad publicity move.

>>8497227

IP means intellectual property; it has nothing to do with an IP address.

>>8497320

I literally meant you don't need a Japanese internet protocol to post on 2ch as opposed to other Japanese websites like 2chan, so there's nothing to keep him from posting on 2ch.

>>8496012
Like Kagosa said...

>>8497415
>>8497415
>>8497415
Typo bro, you've came so close and yet you derp'ed all over the place..

How is it pirating doujin works?

Aren't doujinshi based on fucking copyright laws and basically making money out of other peoples' works?

Do the Japanese even know what the fuck they're complaining about?

That's the likely reason doujinshi circles don't complain about piracy. Because their own works break their own copyrights by making money out of other peoples' stuff.

If nobody has made this point yet in that thread, can someone tell them this?

>>8496871
Renai Fansubs translated this.

The original idea of doujinshi isn't making money. It's making your (fan) work seen and available.
Yes, there are some circles making a fuckton of money with it, but that's not the usual case. Most doujinshi are forgotten about forever in a matter of weeks. Piracy is prolonging their life, and widening the audience to the whole world. Isn't that the dream of every artist?
Do these faggots have any idea how difficult it is to actually buy doujinshi outside Japan? If you pay a 100% premium that's still cheap, and almost all stores refusing to ship overseas - even actively preventing foreigners from placing an order - isn't helping.
And this is all ignoring they are de facto breaking copyright law themselves.

What a bunch of hypocritical, small-minded, nationalist retards.

>>8497472
>Aren't doujinshi based on fucking copyright laws and basically making money out of other peoples' works?
I'm not anti-piracy, but there's a tremendous difference between producing derivative work and just copying existing work. The fact that derivative work even violates copyright is only because somebody somewhere decided that characters were intellectual property and fanfiction is illegal.

>>8497553
Indeed. Selling an illegal derivative work is a severe crime.
Downloading copyrighted content from an illegit source is not.

>>8497567
So stupid question...can you get sent to jail and tenderly love by the black guy name moe for downloading Doujins?

>>8497620
no
police don't give enough of a fuck to track you down for it

>>8496012

Ah, okay.

>>8497620
In some countries yes, but only through to pornography laws.

You guys are faggots. These are doujin circles we're talking about, not multi-national media conglomerates. Income actually matters to them and isn't used to pad the bonus of an executive.

An average doujin will cost anywhere between 500-800 yen. Buy them and support your favorite circles.

>>8499222

Sup 2ch'er, how's Japan?

I wouldn't hold it against anyone for not being open to the idea of paying shipping or commisions at a cumulative rate of 20% or so to import things from Japan, but the way people here get vehemently angry at the idea of people seeking compensation for their work is really something to behold.

>>8496764
You do know that most doujinshi are non-h right?

>>8500533

You do know that most doujinshi that makes money have h-content right?

>>8500540
I'm pretty sure most circles see profit on most of their stuff. If they couldn't recoup the cost of production they'd stop making them.

>>8499222
>supporting works that basically pirate the ideas of other people
>support
I'd buy em. If it wasn't so fucking prohibitive to do so, and fucking customs will scare you away more often than not.

That said, that's not the fucking point of this thread or their thread so read threads more before you butt the fuck in. They don't have any moral high ground on IP bullfaggotry if what you make isn't legally even their idea in the first place.

Protecting the rights of something that abuses the rights of something else? What?

I like my doujins tho

I'd buy all of Rustles stuff, but I'd probably get arrested for cp, before it even got my house.

>>8500751
PO Box that shit.

It's funny because those Chinese websites are making money off of people pirating the doujin that are created by people who are making money off of original characters do not steal.

tl;dr: it's the pot calling the kettle black.

>>8500703
There are plenty of online stores where you can buy doujinshi, and Japan cannot do anything about your retarded custom personnel or your retarded laws.

>>8500783

The Doujin creators are creating derivative works. The Chinese websites aren't creating anything. You understand the difference and you're ignoring it.

>>8500751
Ordered Little Girl 3 off Mandarake 4 days ago. I live in Canada, where people have been prosecuted for less. But at this point I really don't give a god damn.

>>8500810

So? Merchants don't create anything either.

>>8500814

>Canada

You're completely fucked bro. I hope you enjoy sucking Native cock in prison, dude.

>>8500812

Merchants pay for their stock and support the authors with their sales.

>>8500751
If people stop scanning doujins so much, whether out of fear of arrest or just to keep it out of the hands of us gaijin, that's going to suck.Too much doesn't get scanned as it is, and importing is too risky.
I haven't heard of anyone being arrested for 2D in my country yet, but I don't want to end up the poster boy on this for trying to, say, import the latest Takeshi Ohta doujin.
Maybe people will use the DL sale sites more, that wouldn't be too bad, I suppose.

>>8500858

It's too bad the DL sites all have heaps of DRM up the ass. Otherwise I was thinking of going that route as well, for some things.

>>8500546
Even if, there's still a huge difference between breaking even and making a living off of it.

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people who can achieve the latter off doujinshi sales are porn artists. And I think I'd be much more sympathetic to them if that wasn't the case.

>>8502437
>>8502437
Everyone knows if anything the deals with sex will always make money no matter what.

i do want my chokudokan

>>8500792
Please, point me to ONE store that is up to date when it comes to doujin releases and ships worldwide.
Not trying to start an argument too, I would be genuinely happy if such store exists.

>>8500814
What the fuck, why haven't the scan guys got it yet? I thought it was meant to be really hard to find.

I thought making money was second to just making cool content anyway.

>>8504911
People say that to look laid back for their fans. They're all Jews.

>its a pain in the ass to get shipping from places like that plus the taxes, i dont see why they cant use paypal or at very lest get a money order.

Don't forget customs and the chance your shit arrives totally wrecked.

>>8504877
http://www.mandarake.co.jp/

If you'd like a doujin that is not listed on their website, you can email them and they'll try to get it for you.

>>8505385
I've checked this site before. It's not as reliable as you think it is. And again, that doesn't change the stupidity of customs personnel and retarded local laws that think women should not show their cleavage.

>>8500810
Derivative works are not allowed under IP protection because you are making money out of someone else's ideas and IP. If you are making those products, you should be paying royalties to the ones who actually made those ideas happen.

Chinese websites most likely translate the derivative works, making it their own derivative work because they wasted time translating shit.

Translations are also derivative works.

Again, this is a case of pots calling kettles black. I'm not going to side with either one, but anyone saying has a higher ground than the other is pretty retarded, especially since Japan really tries its hardest to fuck you over from buying their stuff at the actual price point they sell them for.

Kinda pissed I don't condone piracy but Comiket was founded off it sorta

Doujin circles make doujin of (c) characters and make REAL money off of it and those companies don't bat an eye or ask for a share, sure Japans laws on it are different than the west but still.

Don't know shit about China bout know all about HK subs, QUALITY black market shit you can get there it's pretty cool and kinda helpful there are times when piracy does kinda help it's like a needed evil.

Half those Doujin never make it here and if the Chinese spend even a tiny fraction of that money buy a copy IRL or online those circles should stfu.

>>8506087

Japan thinks that they can do no wrong, and that all foreigners are filthy mongrel bastards; especially the korean and chinese.

Logic doesn't work in slopeponpon.

>>8496012
Hay as long as there doujins getting scanned & translated i can give 2 shit what the japs say fuckers do the same thing with Skyrim/Oblivion/fallout3/New Vegas with those sick ass mods, VN cracking and a shit ton of other things and no one gives a shit about it, but when it comes to "their stuff" its all "oh no you no take" its just fucking retarded and pisses me off.

>>8496012
It's like I'm really in /int/ and everyone is retarded.

>>8506590
>>8506617

Pretty sure it's a small minority of people on 2ch complaining about it.

I'd assume that more Japanese people pirate and crack VNs than the West, China and Korea put together.