/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Nah it doesn't so avoid telling that to your normalfag friends

No.
Picture books for manchildren aren't real literature.

I would say it's probably one of the more intelligent mediums of entertainment.

I learn more from visual novels than I do from TV or the internet.

>>7974909
No.
In fact, reading Visual Novels is scientifically proven to make you stupid.
It's books with training wheels. Video games without the game.
Basically things like Visual Novels and Light Novels were created to cover up for the fact that manchildren can't write, don't understand coherency, and fail wholly at originality.

You should be a visual novel instead of reading

Because then Santa will make you a good boy with his beard

>>7974929
sorry for the off topic post, but is that the girl from Baroque?

Obviously it's better than watching TV, but I don't think most VNs are intellectual. If you're reading Ahoudori Koukairou in the original Japanese, that's about as intellectual as it gets, but 99% of the medium is pandering fan service.

>>7974924
>scientifically proven
Where's the source on that one?

On a good day you might be a tier above people who read Dragonlance novels.

>>7974924
Urobuchi Gen and Tanaka Romeo would like a word with you.

Yes visual novels make us more intellectual than people surfing facebook all day and idiots watching TV shows.
That doesn't really say much though...

It's like saying that a geko is smart compared to a snail.

Reading visual novels makes you better than people who read Koontz and Rice rags.

So it's not intellectual, but it makes you better than superfaggot.

>7974940

Yeah it is.

'Sup?

>>7974909
Read real books you dumb faggot.

About as intellectual as Twilight.

>>7974955
Real books don't have pictures, voices, music, or hilarious porn.

>>7974940
It looks like her.

The Horned Girl is the most moe moe though.

Read some Haruki Murakami. It's the mindfuck you loldeep fags crave and the women are more quirky and sexy than any pandering moeshit you've seen in the last three years.

VNs are at least above LNs.

VNs are literally audio light novels with pictures.
And japanese light novels are the equivalent to Twilight, D&D, StarWars and all that sort of books.
Judge by yourself.

>>7974955
Real books are for autists who like to escape to an imaginary world.

VNs are for people who want to read about these fantasy settings and watch hilarious porn play out.

>>7974968
Lns are way below that actually because they are essentially without description. They read like a script, which is essentially what they are, which is a pretty good marketing strategy if you think about it; throw in a character designer, and you're basically selling the pitch for an anime as a book.

But they fail as novels

>>7974964
>Moeshit

>>>/a/

>>7974971
> Real books are for autists who like to escape to an imaginary world.

Oh /jp/...

>7974961


Oh, most definately. Sexy too.

>>7974984
/jp/'s unironic ironic shitposting is the finest on the internet.

"Intellectual" fans already ruined /a/. Why start that here?

No. Reading in general does not make you an intellectual. Rather, it's the opposite: that intellectuals tend to like to read. So, a more appropriate question would be if intellectuals also tend to enjoy visual novels. (Presumably more than other traditionally "weeaboo" interests.)

>>7974993
Immature users is what ruined /a/.

>>7974961
>>7974991
Wow, and I thought this game was as obscure as it gets

>>7975004
Considering that it's much harder to find literary merit in VNs than it is in anime or manga, that's a bit of a tricky question.

>7975006

Plenty of people have played it. They just get so mindfucked that they remove it from their very mind...

>>7975012
Yeah, this is true, but it's more of a consequence of the difference in volume/maturity between the mediums than a statement of the medium itself. The visual novel is still relatively new.

Well, there's also the fact that an intellectual won't necessarily only do intellectual things.

There are a bunch of serious artists that have successfully entered the anime scene driven by its enormous popularity.
But I haven't heard of any famous writer that has moved from books to VNs. Of course, light novels don't count.

>>7975023
Can't blame them. it's one of the weirdest games I've played

>>7974961
as usual, you have good taste in women

>7975082
>7975054


Moar uberquality screencaps plz

>>7975082
You too, Anon.

VNs are remotely "intellectual" if you read them with the intent of learning / practicing Japanese. Other than that, I would say it's nothing more than a pass-time in the domain of entertainment. I would, however, place it above watching TV or anything of the sort which requires and encourages zero thinking, but it isn't anything extraordinary.

>>7975094
I don't have a lot of them sadly

>7975121

Tummy tummy

>>7975157
wat game is dis

these are all the alice screenshots i have

>>7975159

Baroque for the PS2/Wii
Thanks much for Alice yay

>>7975175
Not that anon, but which one's the definitive version?

>>7975188
Define... Definitive.

>>7975188
The PS2 version. It's like SNES, but better.

If a book is intellectual but fucking boring as shit, is the book still considered good ? Vns are at least fun to read, in the end most books just seem stale and boring.

>>7975199
This. Why trudge through something stale with "literary" merit when in the end you won't end up remembering it because you had a shit time with it?

>>7974909
Well, there's good VN's and bad VN's. Just like books, good VN's are food for the mind, while bad ones are poison.

But then, there's always Nukige.

guys whats the best vn for someone who never played a vn before

>>7975188
I'm not 100% sure but I think they changed the control scheme in the Wii version to make throwing easier, apart from that they're the same game

I played it on my PC with a emulator btw

>>7975195
Well, the version that is undeniably superior to the others, and provides the best experience for someone playing for the first time.
>>7975199
Well, that depends on what you're reading it for. A book can be an entertaining read but at the same time have little to no literary merit, and there are many books that have a lot of literary merit and are, as you said, boring as shit. Personally, I think it's better to read things you enjoy, than to intentionally force yourself to read things that seem "intellectual".

>>7975207
Saya no Uta

Either they quit after 5 minutes, or they play through the game in one sitting (8 Hours, I dunno?)

>>7975207
I've started people on Cross Channel, and had them really enjoy the shit out of it, but I wouldn't actually recommend it as a first VN. The Muv-Luv saga would be excellent if it wasn't a whole trilogy you had to go through... People might yell at me for this, but I actually think Fate/Stay Night is a pretty good introductory VN, especially to someone who enjoyed the anime, or enjoys anime in general. It was my first VN anyway (besides reading some of Heart de Roommate at one point I guess) and it did just fine at getting me into the medium.

Alternatively, maybe something like Ever17, which is also nice because there's no porn in it, which sometimes you see new readers put a lot of undue weight on, whether positive or negative.

>>7975221
Should I play the Fate/Stay Night VN before or after watching the anime? What's the relationship between the two? And isn't Vn ridiculously long?

>>7975221
The first VN I read was a nukige about a boy that has no other choice than to dress himself as a woman in order to live in the woman's dormitory.

I don't even remember the name, but it was fun until I couldn't get the good endings and I got frustrated.

I think that's where most newcomers would simply drop the game. Luckily for me, there was a complete save file along with the game.

Steins;Gate might make a good introductory VN too, if they have background in otaku culture and all that. (Not sure how it would be reading it without that background, I guess you could still enjoy it for the most part.)
>>7975246
I'd say read the VN before. The anime is basically a direct adaptation of the first of the three routes, with a few scenes from other routes added in as filler. So if you watch the anime first you'll find yourself somewhat bored through the first route. Also just as a general rule it's better to read the VN before watching the anime, for pretty much all adaptations, I think.

>>7975250
Yeah, that was Heart de Roommate, my real "first" one but I didn't even think of it as a VN (I just thought of it as a much more expanded version of those porn games on newgrounds or something) at the time.

>>7975246
http://organisation341.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/word-counts-for-various-mediums/

fate stay night is almost as long as the bible.

if you're not a NEET it's going to take you a long time to finish it, and you'll probably lose interest and drop it.

i seriously recommend you start with something else

and yes, it's better than the anime, simply because it has more content and explains more stuff

>>7975246
Also, the VN is pretty long. I think it took me 100 hours to go through it my first time, though I'm a pretty slow reader and some of that was likely me alt-tabbing and doing other things between lines.

There is this tendency for VNs to become quite passive, the player clicking through the dialogue without absorbing anything of it just as the couch potato lets program after meaningless program pass by. I'm only pleasantly surprised no one's voiced that opinion yet.
And sure, Wikipedia does have an annoying habit of starting most VN descriptions with: "....focuses on the appeal of the main female characters"...but yet, even the next worst answer: "No, I'm just playing it for the porn" hasn't even raised its head!

>>7975012
>>literary merit
No. Simply because that's not what they excel in. Good writing does not the best VN make.

What VNs are known for is their sheer immersion. The opportunity to get yourself so lost in another world, even when you're done with the main experience, your perspective of reality is so ridiculously overturned you can't *just* forget about it, let it go! How many threads on "that feel when you finished the game" has 4chan seen? How many people feel so moved by what they have experienced they choose to invent a waifu out of it all, even if only in their dreams? They offer, perhaps sometimes implicitly, is a vision of the perfect reality. Even though it offers no explicit interaction, it inspires deeply personal interpretations that players ponder, sometimes act on - long after the the story is done. You can't tell me something like that isn't "intellectual". Hence my answer to the question: a resounding YES.

>>7975260
Fate/Stay Night is longer than Clannad? I didn't know that... I'd have thought Clannad was longer.

Also, do you know how many words YU-NO has? I always used to see people claiming it was pretty high up there itself.

>>7975266
>What VNS are known for is their sheer immersion
Yeah, this right here. This is pretty much the whole reason I read VNs, because they manage to immerse me far more than any other medium does.

>>7975258
>Heart de Roommate
Yeah, now I remember.
I originally found it in my big brother's anime CD collection. I didn't know what to think about it at the time...

>>7974909

Reading VNs are better than TV and Facebook, sure, but it's hard to top good classic literature.

>>7975266
> What VNs are known for is their sheer immersion. The opportunity to get yourself so lost in another world, even when you're done with the main experience, your perspective of reality is so ridiculously overturned you can't *just* forget about it, let it go! How many threads on "that feel when you finished the game" has 4chan seen? How many people feel so moved by what they have experienced they choose to invent a waifu out of it all, even if only in their dreams? They offer, perhaps sometimes implicitly, is a vision of the perfect reality. Even though it offers no explicit interaction, it inspires deeply personal interpretations that players ponder, sometimes act on - long after the the story is done. You can't tell me something like that isn't "intellectual". Hence my answer to the question: a resounding YES.
That's not much different from reading a good book, but not like you would know that, would you? Not to mention, that's not something independent of good writing - good writing helps immersion greatly.
You sound like someone who doesn't read any real literature(be it popular or "intellectual"), frankly.

>>7975396
Good writing, all you base your point against the opinion x2 bigger than yours is a tiny little word as good writing. Taking it from there what is a "good writing" for you, go ahead.

>>7975444
...are you drunk or something?

>>7975396
Huh? I'm not denying that books can be immersive too, and I probably spend more time reading them than I do VNs, but I disagree that they are moreso than a VN is. Have you even read many VNs yourself? The VN format is really immersive because it combines the active experience of a book (where the reader must advance it themselves, rather than just sitting back and watching) with visual and audio feedback. We're not trying to imply that they're somehow better written than a real book, but simply that the format itself invites a high degree of immersion.

>>7975462
Why do you say that?

>>7975396
Ad Hominems aside, I think its the nature of the immersion that varies between the two mediums. A poster before me commented on the many bells and whistles VNs have at their disposal, and I definitely agree that those help. But if you really wanna examine it from the "literary" standpoint I think alot can be said about the unique VN narrative style. You know how most VNs have a protagonist who, if not faceless, has a really really generic face? He's the one engineered to have the reader identify with, whose perspective you're following 100% of the time, and consequently, is the one whose experiences you will very readily share. Its like a kind of supercharged 1st person narrative you don't get in conventional literature. And sure - you can talk about how, say, Lockwood in Wuthering Heights is engineered to be of the same kind of person that the book was aimed at, even he makes some pretty opinionated comments of the situation that help you realise that even though he is the one you would most identify with, he's not at all you!

Actually, I could continue for ages about the similarities between Wuthering Heights and VNs, but I'd probably go down in flames at trying to turn this place into /lit/!!

No, but it makes me feel more productive than reading manga/watching anime. My personal delusion is that posting on 4chan all day makes me better at writing.

>>7975845
>mediums

>>7975845
>most VNs have a protagonist who, if not faceless, has a really really generic face? He's the one engineered to have the reader identify with
Actually I think it's the other way around. A really blurry character will make you forget about him.

I think what makes VN unique is the focus on the girls the main character interacts with.
Contrary to the standard novel, where the main character is the personality you get to know best, the main character in VNs is just an excuse to have the girls react in a certain way so you get to know them better.

Western novels are all about getting to know oneself. VNs tend to ignore the self and focus on the others. I think this hasn't been exploited properly yet, mostly because the best writers are not interested in this kind of literature.

>>7975960
BRB, emailing Dean Koontz.

FSN is so long because nasu sucks at writing

haha. what a profound lack of understanding i see in you all.

the idea that word count should have any bearing whatsoever on 'intellectual content' is so fucking ridiculous that i should scarcely expect it to come from anywhere but /jp/. "twilight" is a lot longer than berkeley's "treatise concerning the principles of human understanding", but i don't think you're going to find any meaningful epistemological discourse in the former. or any meaningful discourse about anything. it's shit.

but it's not even that kind of thing that annoys me. it's precisely what >>7975004 was trying to say before being drowned out by the sea of dunces - reading books does not make you a fucking intellectual. i have known dozens of blowhard self-proclaimed 'geeks' who read the bookshelves of the classics for the sole purpose of self-aggrandizement, and these people are awful. they read books because they need to prove - either to the world or to themselves - that they're 'intellectual'. and so there will be no fundamental understanding in these people, and not even a quest for a fundamental understanding - only a desperate need to make it seem like they have one.

unfortunately, that illusion is shattered whenever they try to actually have a conversation of any depth whatsoever, and i'm afraid that's what's happened here.

>>7975260

FSN was my first true VN. I played a few Nukige's but they were specific for certain fetishes of mine.

So I don't think it's a bad first VN... the worst part is if you have the endurance to get past the boring exposition parts. It took me a while to get past the dry parts, probably about a month to just play to the part after your first fight with Berserker and Rin is capping off the wordswordswords you had with Kotomine. It really started to pick up for me after that and I enjoyed the ride.

It is pretty long - it took me about 6-7 months to finish it. (Don't know how many game hours.) But I was working tons of overtime during that period, so I could really only play an hour or so during the week. I'd cram in a couple hours on the weekend, especially if I was getting towards the end of a route.

In my humble opinion it's a great first VN, but it just depends on who you recommend it too. If it's someone with a short attention span/needs instant gratification - they might want something shorter...

>>7976084
>That picture
Oh shit, I remember that thread. What ever happened to that art teacher guy?

If you don't have the time to read FSN as your first VN then you shouldn't be reading VNs in the first place. NEET hobby only.

>>7974909
>implying average novel is about 85,000 words
Maybe the shitty novels they give you to read in 3rd grade.

No, because they're not written by intellectuals. They're written by hipster nips who think they're smart or porn artists.

Factor in the degradation through translation by some bored fan group and you've got a steaming pile of shit.

>>7975271
Vns are immersive as HELL
and the longer the better. What's the point in getting immersed if it only lasts 8 hours?

>>7976104
What are people who clearly hate the medium even doing on /jp/? Just touhou?

>>7976109

honesty and hatred are not the same thing. perhaps your moe cartoons have softened you into a state of perpetual naivete?

>>7976107
>hurr mangas and subbed animes have words too
>obviously they're masterpeeces in disguys

>>7976109
I think they just come here to talk about how they hate everything.

>>7976109
The medium are terrible if you are expecting literature masterpiece and intellectual thinking.
If I wanted literature masterpiece and intellectual story, I read a book.
I play eroge because it doesnt try to pass off as some books you read in your literature class.

>>7976127
Oh ya, forgot to mention, if there is one thing that the medium does well it is the timeloop/parallel world story.

Not at all.

Just because the lowest common denominator is barely literate does not make a reader of long textual works an intellectual.

However, I think that completely ignoring the VN medium is a huge mistake and that with the rise of tablets, touchscreen phones, and commodity computing, we are going to see new entrants into the genre.

The problem with VNs is that they are a combination of audio, visuals, and text. They work really well when all three are complimenting each other. But at all times, all three limit each other.

I.E. Awesome descriptions with no event CG and irrelevant visuals, awesome visuals with shitty audio and poorly written texts, etc. There are more points of failure per Plot Event than in other mediums.

VNs are at their best when dealing with Parallel Worlds, Time Travel, 4th Wall Breaking, Introspection Mixed With Events, and Perspective Changes. They are at their worst when dealing with linear stories that would look better in anime, or read better in pure text.

However, since Male-Oriented Romance is almost entirely absent in western lit, VNs fill a great niche.

>>7976121
But there is a difference. Anime lacks the element of "connection" with the reader, in that the reader advances the story themselves, rather than simply watching it advance, and manga has less text, and just feels less "seamless" (though this is my personal opinion, and others may feel differently) than a VN or book. Also, it lacks the audio component, which I find to be a huge part of the immersion factor.

And why are you getting so hostile here? It's one thing if you don't agree with me, but going into some kind of /v/ level greentext is uncalled for. Also, nobody implied that VNs are "masterpieces". Anyone that thinks an entire medium is anything of the sort is delusional and ignorant. We simply said that they lend themselves to a high degree of immersion.

I for one think that vns are the closest things to masterpieces out there.

>>7976131
>VNs are at their best when dealing with Parallel Worlds, Time Travel, 4th Wall Breaking, Introspection Mixed With Events, and Perspective Changes. They are at their worst when dealing with linear stories that would look better in anime, or read better in pure text.

I was agreeing with you until I read that part.
Now I think you're an idiot.

>>7976133
>Also, nobody implied that VNs are "masterpieces".
>>7974909
>would you say that reading visual novels makes you a intellectual?

I'd say it's pretty clear.
If you were trying to troll me, good job. 10/10

>tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin
>Mirrored
Is this the pretentious twat thread?

>>7976143

Hmm. I'd ask you to reconsider what I mean when I say "Introspection Mixed With Events" because that is the difference between a straight linear that works best in VN, and a straight linear that is only slowed down by the medium.

>>7976147
Huh? How does "do you think doing X makes you an intellectual" mean "I think X are all masterpieces?" If he had asked "do you think reading books makes you an intellectual" then would that mean that he thinks all books are masterpieces? Of course not, because to make such a statement at all is stupid. A masterpiece is by definition among the best of its particular medium. A masterpiece book, a masterpiece movie, or a masterpiece VN are DIFFERENT THINGS and are not meant to be compared with one another in any serious way.

And I'm not using "they're not meant to be compared" as any kind of cop out or something. I'm just saying that when someone calls a VN a masterpiece, they're not trying to claim that it is somehow at the level of great classical literature. That would be idiotic, and why would we expect the best of a medium that has been around for decades to one that has been around for centuries?

And I'm not using "they're not meant to be compared" as any kind of cop out or something. I'm just saying that when someone calls a VN a masterpiece, they're not trying to claim that it is somehow at the level of great classical literature. That would be idiotic, and why would we expect the best of a medium that has been around for decades to be comparable with one that has been around for centuries?

>>7976151

of course the actual content of the posts doesn't matter to someone like you - criticizing a poster based on their name is so much less effort than actually making an effort to read what they've said, and respond to it in a manner befitting a rational being

>>7976176
With the few post you made we can quickly realize you're another faggot like the other DEEPfags

Who said I hate the medium? I just think you're deluded if you expect to find any sort of intellectualism in it.

The only thing VNs have over novels is their interactivity through choices, and most of them implement it very lazily. Bioware makes better VNs than Japan these days. I know a learned a lot more from the ME franchise than fucking Nasu and his mollusk fetish stories.

>>7976184
>Bioware makes better VNs than Japan these days

I was just stopping by and saw this post.

You've fallen low, /jp/. You have fallen really fucking low.

>>7976199
ZUN is overrated, /b/ is the best board of all time, and Japan is the greatest country of all time because of all the kawaii nekos there.

>>7976199
Oh come on, you can't actually think it was a typical /jp/sie that said such a thing. I think these guys are coming over from /lit/ or something.

>>7976185

so your brilliant response to my simple criticism is to start shouting.

let me give you some advice, kid - in an argument, try to be smarter than the other guy, not louder.

>>7976184
>ioware makes better VNs than Japan these days.
>and you've got a steaming pile of shit.

>Who said I hate the medium?

>>7976199
Don't lump us true niggaz with bitch ass /v/irgins

>>7976199
The man's posting with a fucking eagle picture. He's trolling.

>>7976208
No, the best way to win an argument is to imply the other person is underage.

>>7974909

Aside from absolutely everything previously posted...

God damn Rin is a sex pot.

>>7976249
Rin is getting a little too developed, Kuro is sexier.

>>7976256
Please don't be a pedophile near me.

Oh wow.

To think you people are so deluded you even dare to pose this question.

Yeah, you're really smart. Like, totally. Now crawl back to your basement like the intellectual you are.

>>7978221
Actually, the typical "basement dweller" is a lot more intellectual than your average normalfag.

Good writers don't turn to the visual novel medium, bad writers do. And bad people like us read them in their original japanese language.

>>7978259
Thanks for the laugh.

And what's your scientific basis for this? Your own experience as a loser?

>>7978280
His opinion is just as proven scientifically as yours.

>>7978283
How can you prove his intellectual superiority when he does not exercises it? I can say that my car is faster than yours, but unless we take it out for a spin we won't find out.

This being so, even if he declares that socially stunted people are more intelligent than your average person, if they keep to themselves and do not show this your argument is moot.

>>7978302
>your argument

My argument is that you are arguing on the internet.
You could as well say that your dad can beat up his. We will never know.

>>7978302
Since when did intellectualism have anything to do with what you showed other people? If anything it's the pseudo-intellectuals who seem far more inclined to try to prove how intelligent they are to everyone.

>>7978309
>pseudo-intellectuals
A word only used by pseudo-intellectuals.

>>7978316
What?
But...
Huh?

>>7978318
We call this advanced concept 'sarcasm'.

>>7978330
Oh, sorry. My asperger's syndrome makes it hard for me to understand such things.

>>7978309
But... that's exactly what you are doing right now.

A mind that is not constantly put to the test grows weak.

>>7978335
Well yeah, but when you do it with internet people there's really no reason for them to know you're just some NEET, unless you tell them.

>>7978335
>A mind that is not constantly put to the test grows weak.
You don't need to go outside for this, we have these awesome things called books and also the internet.

>>7978349
You are claiming the internet is BENEFICIAL to one's intelligence?

>>7978349
>books

What a novel concept.

>>7978355
Depends on how you use it, but availability of information tends to be a good thing.

>>7974909
Certainly. This was one of the deepest discourses on the fleeting instances of young love, the pains and trials it can bring, but also the happiness. A story about the contradictions of your bodies growth not keeping rate with your minds growth, and of how those around you will react to this.
I just don't understand why it isn't studied on any literature courses; perhaps it is because no-one has ever felt confident enough to produce a translation which does its theme justice, so it's never had a chance to reach truly worldwide fame.

>>7978373
You are literally retarded.

bump

Get out of here peasants. The gentlefolk are reading their sophisticated literature.

>Her lewdness is a great nightmare.
>Her anus is defenseless.
>It contracts every time I move, looking like a second reproductive opening.
>Tohsaka's anus.
>The dirtiest part of her is right in front of me.
>"Hm, ah...! Ahh, hah, ah...! Ahh, it feels good, Emiya-kun, ah, it's rubbing me...!"
>Our intercourse does not stop.
>The sensation of squishing a ripe fruit.
>The drilled hole, no, the point of our connection is wet and the juice dirties her thighs.

Everyone here has clearly never read a tanaka romeo or shumon yuu vn in full Japanese. Bunch of god damn philistines.

>>7974909
Here from /co/; Fate stay night is seriously 820 thousand fucking words long? How many of them are "..." or "uguu"?

LEMME TELL Y'ALL 'BOUT HOMESTUCK.

>>7974943
>Urobuchi Gen
>the furfag who wrote a bunch of porn games and then shit out Madoka, the Twilight of magical girl anime

>>7981015
I wonder how many words Homestuck has...

>>7981015

There's never an "uguu" in Fate. There's an occasional "... uu." Which is a groan of frustration generally.

I don't know if it includes "▂▂▃▃▄▄▅▅" or "｢　　　　｣" as words, both come up several times but not enough to impact a thousand.

>>7981046

4/13/2009 - 4/13/2011
733 days
3718 pages
~300,000 words
5 pages per day
hours and hours of animated footage + gameplay

About 6 months ago, though. This was before the past trolls and their wordy wordy backstories.

>>7974934
>Ahoudori Koukairou
Can you give me the original Japanese title? I can't see it on google.

I was trying to take the "intellectual" fags seriously, but the more they posted the more retard they sounded. I know people who can spew that much shit in a short time which is why I can't decide if they are trolling or just being stupid.

>>7981253
信天翁航海録

>>7981293
The pleasure of being cummed inside.

>>7976084
>It is pretty long - it took me about 6-7 months to finish it.

I finished FSN in two days, everything. I dunno how to feel about this...

>7980986

>>On Fate/Stay Night, Utawarerumono, Tsukihime, Zero no Tsukaima, and Higurashi....

>>(these are) productions concerned with simultaneously private and collective quests driven by a desire to decipher sinister enigmas enshrined in both recorded history and fiction-coated lore. While such ventures deserve their designation as "epic" due to their heroical proportions, they are often coursed by dark inchoate urges that threaten to cloud the laudability of their objectives, which adds a felicitously sobering note to what could otherwise have come across as an overidealisitc scenario.

Pic related: it's where the quote is from.

>>7982407
Ctrl is really useful, eh?

>>7982415

He suffers from delusions of eloquence?

>>7982443
I didn't understand a single thing he tried to say in that post

>>7982415
Someone should inform the author that lots of very large and sophisticated words does not a good sentence make.

>>7982458
Welcome to post-modernism. http://richarddawkins.net/articles/824

>>7974909
No that is just stupid.
Clicking through some stories with chicks with bloated tits.
Not nearly enough to make intellectual at all. Grab the calculus sons.

> Seeking to lure tourists to a nation still reeling from the effects of the March earthquake and tsunami, Japan says it will make it easier for foreign travelers to visit: It'll offer free airline tickets.

>Officials next year plan to offer 10,000 travelers free airfares to visit the country, which is still coping with the tsunami-triggered nuclear meltdown at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant several hundred miles north of Tokyo. Government officials say the nation is safe for travel anywhere but the area near the stricken nuclear power plant.

>The Japan Tourism Agency announced this week that it plans to ask would-be travelers to submit online applications for the free flights, detailing the region of the country they would like to visit, according to a story in the Yomiuri Shimbun newspaper.

>The agency will select winning entrants, who will be required to write a review of their experiences in Japan to be published on the Internet. Travelers are asked to cover their own hotels and meals.
Officials hope that positive reports from tourists will help lure travelers back to Japan, which endured a 50% drop in tourism for the first three months following the March 11 disaster, compared with numbers from the same period in 2010.

>>7974909
820000 words of concentrated autism

>>7983184
DIRTY FLYGIN

while novels used to be a stage for discussions on a variety of controversial issues, they have now become more about quick-and-easy entertainment

most paper novels these days fail to stimulate the intellect, or manage to briefly touch upon the surface of issues

the same goes for visual novels, the majority will namedrop and skim over social issues, controversies, and academic discussions, but they aren't really about those things, they are about picking your favorite girl to hook up with

there are a few VNs that make you ponder things like existence, life, world-perception, and relationships, but they are like their paper-counterparts in that both are rare and niche rather than mainstream

most VNs are all about creating or pursuing relationships, and not so much about exploring the meaning behind relationships (ie. they will always mention "people cannot live alone" but never try to explain why)

a lot of visual novels boast a high wordcount because the majority of the wordcount is meaningless conversation ("waiii, should i get yakisoba bread today? or ramen!?") or exposition describing a scene or character

exposition is fine, but too many writers see exposition as a chance to show off their wordsmithing skills and mastery of flowery prose

a lot of readers buy into that sort of thing, but they aren't exactly the type who look for intellectual stimulation in the first place

>>7982415
Why's the wikipedia girl on the cover?

Well seeing as I'm reading them in Japanese, a language I'm studying, I would consider it to be an intellectual excericse. I also copy unknown vocab to anki and SrS it, so by the time I get to the last route I can read pretty much without ever looking anything up.

>>7983292

What VNs do you recommend?

>>7983380
he'd pobably recomend gGAYa no uta

>>7983385

Have you ever fucked your mom? Do you want to?

When will Lolita be adapted into a VN\Manga\Anime\fig\Danmaku franchise.

>>7983402
nio my mom is my dads porperty fuck tahat

What about reading Subahibi?

>>7983302
She's the Western mascot of visual novels.

>>7982415
That was hilarious. I gotta get a copy.

>>7983176
>watch me derive e^x! xD

who cares about being an intellectual?

>>7983176
p̂ = -iħρ^-½ (∂/∂q)ρ^1/2 = -iħ[(∂/∂q) + (1/2ρ) ∂ρ/∂qi]

Find the momentum operators corresponding to the cylindrical coordinates r, θ, z.

>>7983911
no i don't care it's not interesting mathematically it's just some physics shit

>>7983939
Calculus is not very mathematically interesting either.

It expands the imagination and emotional complexity of the brain yes OP. However to what benefit? We're closeted, self-centered NEETs.

>>7982415

>(these are) productions concerned with simultaneously private and collective quests driven by a desire to decipher sinister enigmas enshrined in both recorded history and fiction-coated lore. While such ventures deserve their designation as "epic" due to their heroical proportions, they are often coursed by dark inchoate urges that threaten to cloud the laudability of their objectives, which adds a felicitously sobering note to what could otherwise have come across as an overidealisitc scenario.

Translation: these are stories in which individuals band together for both personal and collective aims, mostly concerned with solving some sort of 'mystery' which is referenced to via real world history (events that have actually occured) and mythology, adapted to fit the needs of the narrative (i.e. Arthurian legend, Japanese mythology, heroic larger-than-life characters who have become distorted as history and mythology have become intertwined)

They deserve the term 'epic' as they are tales of high heroism and journey, but that heroism is not unalloyed - the characters themselves have their flaws, dark urges and desires waiting to be acted upon. These dark desires, which we as the reader become aware of, throw into question their supposed heroism and how pure their objectives are. This helps to prevent such stories from becoming simple ideal stories of good versus evil.

on a sidenote it's hilarious to see how exactly how anti-intellectual you guys are

DON'T TALK BIG, DON'T ANALYZE THINGS

good lord

>>7984489
At least we can spell hillarious.

>>7984536

>>7984609

>>7984536
I chuckled.

lol dumest ting i here nhere

only will reet say summat as post the oraginal

most hidoi thread of the year

>>7984489
It's trendy to be seen as an intellectual so to be really cool and against the grain we should hate intelligence.

Fucking normalfags and their thinking. What will those gaylords do next?

is not pint

SMART REATLED OP NOT

EV1 LOSER VARGO TO JUTSFY REETAT

I RPROT ALL

would you say that practicing makes you an Aikidoka?

>>7984933

Reported.

>>>/b/

vns are the epitome of literature.

>>7985630
I know right?

>>7985630
>>7985637
Yeah, because picking a single page out of context is certainly the best way there is to assess literary value, amirite?

>>7986301
>literary value
You keep using that word...etc

Most translated garbage sure as hell beats the fuck out of anything by Shakespeare.

SUICIDE SUICIDE

>>7986325
I used the word because the other guy did. Anyway, why is it that you're trying to compare VNs to shakespeare, or anything like that? You're aware that nobody else is, right? The medium is only 30 years old at most, why would you judge its best works against those of a medium that has been around for hundreds? When we say things like "masterpiece" or "literary value" we are speaking ONLY WITHIN THE REALM OF THE VN MEDIUM. I'm not sure if you guys are trolling or what, because I'd have thought that this would be extremely obvious.

>>7986301
>amirite

Fuck off back to >>>/b/

>>7986354
No need to get so uppity over one word.

amirite?

I think reading VNs CAN be more intellectual than, say, watching anime or reading manga, thought it kind of depends on choice of subject matter. Reading regular books is probably more so though, but once again that kind of depends on subject matter.

bump

>would you say that reading visual novels makes you a intellectual?

If anything, it made me the opposite.
Ever since I started reading VNs I can no longer enjoy novels.

I've become bigoted. I can no longer stand nonvirgin sluts in fiction. Or having NTRish acting subcharacters. It makes me realize how western fiction is full of NTR and slut heroines.

>>7991780
Really? If anything I've started reading a lot more since I started reading VNs. Though I don't think it was actually BECAUSE I started reading VNs that I started to read more... Rather, it was because I started favoring electronic reading devices (first my phone, and then when I realized how much I was using that to read eventually a Kindle I bought) and so it became convenient to read all the stuff that I'd been meaning to for a long time, and then seek out other things that seemed interesting.

The idea that reading literature can make you an intellectual is laughable.

But feel free believing in that, art majors who desperately try to be seen as intelligent. You know what a mathematician like me does in his free time ? Playing puzzle games, reading philosophical discourses or some edifying classics ? Heh, while I do indeed enjoy some of those, rarely is there a puzzle more intellectually satisfying than most of my math problems, or a philosophical argument I have not already thought up by myself. By the time I was 18 such things already became dull and I had experienced most cliches in fiction.

Unlike fags, however, I don't consider myself an intellectual or remotely intelligent (or 'human') just because I can read something anyone else can read. If you've read more than 200 books (apart from the technical ones), you've wasted your time. You only need to read the most thought-provoking ones and extrapolate the rest. Most of your time could have been better spent on other things that require, you know, actual brainpower.

PS most visual novels are trite as shit. But you get to decide how to waste your own time. Their greatest success to date has been forcing me to waste 3 months on learning kanji and I'm not sure it was worth it.

>>7991875
What if we just genuinely enjoy reading? I think OP's original premise that reading VNs, or anything for that matter somehow "makes you an intellectual" is rather silly, but I'd still be interested in whether reading VNs is something an intellectual would prefer more than a non-intellectual.

>>7991875
ohohohoho.

You're adorable.

>>7976256

They'd both be fun in the sack... in their own ways.

It makes you a consumer of entertainment.

You want to be intellectual? Spend you time thinking about P vs NP and computability.

>>7992785
I was wondering when you'd show up.

>>7992795
You want something?

I don't think it makes me an intellectual, but I learned a lot while playing VNs. I play them in Japanese, which is my third language, while I use Japanese-to-English dictionaries and grammar guides, which is my second language. So, it lets me practice two languages at the same time.

>>7991875
you sound bitter and upset.

>>7992785
>P vs NP
Well done. I wondered if I had clicked /sci/ instead.

But isn't it pointless to wonder about it? Thinking about a math problem you can't solve doesn't make you an intellectual.

>>7992785

ah yes intellect resides in computers and maths thanks mr. robot

bee boop beep blip bop

Reading visual novels definitely doesn't make an intellectual. It's not the quantity of what you read that makes you smart but the quality. I read crime and punishment in Middle School, that made me a little smarter. Reading something like Fate/Stay Night has its merits in philosophy (such as shiro's outlook on life) but in the end it's still an action story directed at teenagers, and in the end that's all you get out of it.

>>7993148
>Well done. I wondered if I had clicked /sci/ instead.
You must be new here.

>>7991875
>visual novels are trite as shit, I have never read a philosophical argument that I didn't think up myself
>by the time I was 18, I had already grown out of all the silly things art majors busy themselves with

>Unlike fags, however, I don't consider myself an intellectual or remotely intelligent (or 'human')
So do you just stick this in there just to pretend you don't think you're of superior intelligence, even though you clearly think that you are? Or are just you saying that you consider yourself intellectual for reasons other than reading?

>>7993148
>Thinking about a math problem you can't solve
Only because you think you can't.
Who knows? Maybe you can.

there is no such thing as art, and intellectualism is a social construct

to become the intellectual, one must pass through a series of agreed-upon rituals

all is spent in the pursuit of a lie

>>7993154
I gave it a fairly serious try for a couple of weeks when I was a senior in college. I looked at the work of people who had contributed to the problem and concluded that, while I thought I was pretty good at math, their work was beyond my ability to build upon.

>>7991780
I didn't even realize that. Even Lolita wasn't a virgin when Humbert first did her.

>>7991875
>You know what a mathematician like me
Seriousy, I care.

>waste 3 months on learning kanji and I'm not sure it was worth it
Which makes you, literally, a git.

>>7974909
Buy VNs legally and you're an intellectual. Pirate them and you're another neckbeard just like the rest of us.

This thread is educational.
The most important lesson: fun is a waste of time and it makes you stupid.

>>7991824
I think it's because I was only playing VNs while you are reading books at the same time.

I got selectively reinforced on how heroines should be.

>>7993186
What a fucking slut.

VNs vs novels
quantity vs quality

>>7996117
Haha.
Assuming you're serious... did you think that over?

>>7996200
I think over everything I say.

If we are talking about quality, I'd say there are tons of novels which are better than the "best" Visual novels, but that's natural given that novels are mainstream and therefore massively produced. Visual novels have to rely on cliches to a greater or lesser degree in order to attract buyers, because they are oriented at a very specific public. At least, most of them.

>>7996385
And those are one in a million of less than average books that are a waste of paper and ink.

>>7996330
So you seriously think that there are more VNs than novels and the latter is universally of higher quality than any and all VNs.
Cute.

>>7996746
I think he was referring to the length of individual works as far as quantity goes, not the amount of them.

This is a really bad thread. Thanks for keeping it around for almost a week.

>>7997468
You're welcome.

this thread is a goldmine

>>7999611
For what?

>>8002479
gold, obviously.

>>7997468
Better than the other 75% of threads on /jp/ right now.

As it contains actual discussion, lots of it.

What do you think of light novels /jp/?

>>8007074
VNs > LNs