/jp/ - Otaku Culture

It's like I'm really on touhouwiki.

of course; how does one fight a death god?

Best touhou.

And hat.

>>6830076
>how does one fight a death god?

I personally don't know, but there's a person who does.

I'm no expert on Asian mythology, but I've always thought deities related to death could just win by fiat. Given their near-supreme authority, and all.

But then there is that time Hercules put Death in a chokehold, so whatever.

Can't Yuyuko just pull her ''You're already dead'' card?

She never uses it but, doesn't change the fact she could and Shikeiki doesn't seem dead.

And Yuyuko rules that purgatory not Yama.

>>6830113
Can Shikeiki die?

>>6830103
Forgive me for getting all /a/ up in here, but didn't King Yamma single handedly restrain Perfect Cell after Goku sent him to Hell?

Sun Wukong could outwit the Yamas, therefore he could defeat Yukari.

>>6830113
>>Impressed by her unwillingness to curse people and her ability to control spirits, she was appointed by the great Yama to manage the souls of the dead.

Yuyu and Yama confirmed for brotastic.

>>6830119
And therefore, Hercules could beat Perfect Cell? Sounds good to me.

Is Yama the judge of the dead and the ruler of the underworld as well? Or are there other deities involved? To what extent are the Japanese and Chinese conceptions of the process different? To what extent do the myths of each nation contradict those of the same nation?

>>6830113
It's more limbo than purgatory.

And, yes, as far as I know Yamas are generally dead people.

>>6830115
In strange aeons.

>>6830103

Thanatos is a lesser god.

Remember: Greeks didn't think much of death itself. The afterlife was a big thing for them.
Hercules probably couldn't wrestle down Hades, who rules the underworld. Thanatos is just his agent.

>>6830103
That's more akin to Marisa strangling Komachi.

Yama is more like Hades.

>>6830181
Yeah, Hades is probably a different matter. Thanatos goes around and does the actual collection of souls, though, you think he'd have some level of inherent power just for that job.

Also, what about stuff like Persephone, condemned to spend six months in the underworld every year because she ate a couple of seeds? That's the sort of thing I'm talking about, hard spiritual limitations that can't be simply overpowered. The idea that if you were strong enough to beat up the god of the dead, you could live forever is a foreign one to me.

>>6830197
You're thinking of Charon.

I doubt she'd use her puny last boss danmaku if it was actually work related.

>>6830210
Nah man.

Komachi IS Death but, also does the ''Nice Boat'' thing, she doesn't seem to care about coins, either.

There isn't a Charon expy.

Powerlevels thread?
Powerlevels thread.

>>6830063
That has more to do with her actual station and not her power.

Maybe yukari was both too lazy to fight and didn't want Judged.

Bitch is still no match for mai waifu

bring it on, bitch.

>>6830267
Oh, are you serious ? It's so funny i could...die.

>>6830143
Shikieiki is the judge. Yuyuko is the ruler of nirvana. She "outranks" Shikieiki if you want to see it that way.

It's pretty silly to discuss powerlevels in Touhou when the bigshots are involved. They are full of hax and things like unstoppable forces and unmoveable objects.

>>6830267
Bitch, I could kancho your whore of a waifu anytime now.

>>6830283

I think the point is: Who can hax the most?

Besides, it allows us to flesh out the extent of their powers and subsequently their possible personalities.

>>6830283
>Yuyuko is the ruler of nirvana.
Derp.

Hakugyokurou has a very solid and clear explanation. Don't try to merge it with another concepts.

>>6830291
It has been hinted many times now that Marisa is searching way to achive immortality. Shikieiki may never get to see Marisa if she is successful.

Toyohime and Yorihime could beat Eiki

>>6830283

>Shikieiki is the judge. Yuyuko is the ruler of nirvana. She "outranks" Shikieiki if you want to see it that way.

No, she's the manager of the Netherworld.

The rankings are like this.

Shikieiki gets to say who goes where.
If you are good, you may be sent to the Netherworld (which is more like the Elysium Fields, much like Earth but eternal and calm), where you will be watched over by Yuyuko.
If you've achieved Enlightenment (Nirvana), you are permitted to ascend to Bhava-Agra. Bhava-Agra seems to be rules by an unknown god.
If you are evil, you could be sent to Reincarnate, or thrown down to Hell (Jigoku). Who rules Hell is unknown. (It's possible that Makai is a hell as well, if so, you'd be ruled by Shinki.)

>>6830320

Anyway, I forgot to say.
The point is that Shikieiki gets to appoint you under the control of these people, so who "outranks" each other is kinda not applicable.

>>6830318
who's hinting what now? That's preposterous since immortality is no secret in Gensokyo and magicians like Patchy and Alice probably started out as humans and used mage craft to become long lived. I mean look at Hijiri.

>>6830306
Remilia depending on how her ability to control fate is interpreted.

>>6830318
Marisa will probably pull a Byakuren at the last second.

Turn Youkai before she dies, I'm sure Alice would be giddy.

>>6830280
>>6830291
>THEY THINK YAMA IS ANYTHING BUT A PUSSY

>>6830320
Shikieiki states that there is not real "Hell". It's just a concept made to make mortals fear, reflect on their actions and aim to correct themselves. She says that on PoFV if I recall correctly.

>>6830352

And yet, both PMiSS and Touhou 11 directly contradict this.

>>6830352

I don't recall her saying that at all.

>>6830335
Marisa should never turn into a youkai it'd take away everything that makes her who she is.

>>6830335
>Remilia depending on how her ability to control fate is interpreted.

Lunarians are here, Earth crawlers are losers.

>>6830358
I thought that since the official works were written by opinionated, lieing outsider it wasn't truly factual.

Actually, wasn't it said it's full of shit?

Or am I thinking of Perfect Memento?

>>6830358
Let me remind you that Shikieiki does not reveal how things actually work.

For example that cicada cycle made by her.

I think almost all of the other touhous are ignorant when this is the subject. PMiSS is a pretty unstable material to base on too.

>>6830283
superiors aren't generally appointed to their office by their lessers.

in any case; Powerword:Death does not work on unliving/undying deities, so I don't think Yuyuko's power can do much to Sikieiki

>>6830320
It seems like Makai and Jigoku are separate, at least if we can consider Highly Responsive to Prayers to still have any relationship to the current canon.

SHIKI CAN KILL TOEHOES
SHIKI CAN KILL YABADABADOO
SHIKI CAN EAT HER WAFFLE-HAT

Shikieiki has been beaten by Cirno and Mystia.
She's not so tough.

>>6830377
>>6830380

The Child of Miare has lived and died several times. I think she knows how the death process works pretty well.

PMiSS is "canon with a grain of salt", but it's also where we get most of our information about Yamas/the afterlife in the first place.

Reimu is the main character.No matter what, her plot armor will enable her to crush every other character.

>>6830385
who's that again ?

>>6830399
YOU'RE MOM.

>>6830398
Marisa is the main character. No matter what, her plot armor will enable her to crush every other character.

Where's Suigin's Touhou powerlevelz copypasta?

>>6830366

This.

>>6830381 superiors aren't generally appointed to their office by their lessers
Are there any representative democracies in Touhou?

>>6830399
She's from Xenoglossia 2.

>>6830398
>plot armor
Her plot armor has a weakness
It admits she is mortal

Check and mate.

But sakuya can control time.

I'm sure Shiki is great and all, but I don't think she'd beat me in a fistfight.

>>6830417
If she was able to use her Rod of Remorse she could beat you.

>>6830395
She has reincarnated several times, but do we know if she went to hell (or wherever) between reincarnations? She may only have memories of her past lives, not her past deaths.

EX-Tier:
VIVIT>EX-Yuka (Youkai Moe)>Shinki>=Shiki Eiki>EXAlice>Yukari>=Yuugi>Tenshi>=Suika>Reimu>Flandre>Koishi
A Tier:
Kaguya>=Mokou>Yuyuko=Komachi>Remilia>=Yuka>Eirin>EXKeine=Toyohime>Yorihime=Evil
EyeSigma>Utsuho=Yumeko=Kanako>Byakuren>Suwako>Gengetu=Ran(PCBExtra)=Mima>Mugetu>Ay
a>Marisa>Medicine>Yumemi>Satori=Patchouli(TopCondition)>Nue>Chiyuri>Rikako
B Tier:
Sakuya>Keine>Sanae>Youmu>Alice(PCB)>Mai=Chen(PCBExtra)>Orin=Yuki=Reisen>Murasa&
gt;Ichirin=Syou>Prismrivers>Elly>Kurumi>Nitori>Tewi=Alice(MS)=China>Hina>Meira&
gt;Luize>=Sara>Patchouli (Low Condition)
C Tier:
Yamame>Minoriko=Letty>Cirno>Flower Tank>Parsee>Shizuha>Chen(Normal)>Mystia=Kogasa>Wriggle>Rumia>Nazrin=Orange>E
llen=Kotohime>Three Mischievous fairies

>>6830422
Yeah, but then it wouldn't be fist fighting, now would it?

>>6830406
EX-Tier:
VIVIT>EX-Yuka (Youkai Moe)>Shinki>=Shiki Eiki>EX-Alice>Yukari>=Yuugi>Tenshi>=Suika>Reimu>Flandre>Koishi
A Tier:
Kaguya>=Mokou>Yuyuko=Komachi>Remilia>=Yuka>Eirin>EX-Keine=Toyohime>Yorihime=Evi
l Eye Sigma>Utsuho=Yumeko=Kanako>Byakuren>Suwako>Gengetu=Ran(PCB Extra)=Mima>Mugetu>Aya>Marisa>Medicine>Yumemi>Satori=Patchouli(Top Condition)>Nue>Chiyuri>Rikako
B Tier:
Sakuya>Keine>Sanae>Youmu>Alice(PCB)>Mai=Chen(PCB Extra)>Orin=Yuki=Reisen>Murasa>Ichirin=Syou>Prismrivers>Elly>Kurumi>Nitori>T
ewi=Alice(MS)=China>Hina>Meira>Luize>=Sara>Patchouli (Low Condition)
C Tier:
Yamame>Minoriko=Letty>Cirno>Flower Tank>Parsee>Shizuha>Chen(Normal)>Mystia=Kogasa>Wriggle>Rumia>Nazrin=Orange>E
llen=Kotohime>Three Mischievous fairies

>>6830414
She can only stop time, slow time, accelerate time and manifest temporal locations of objects in motion. She can't reverse time.

>>6830437
>Yuka (Youkai Moe)

>>6830398
The spellcard rules also protect her. Without them, she can be defeated, even with her "divine power".

>>6830426
Her power is to remember everything she sees. Take that as you will.

Meanwhile, at canon strongest touhous...

>>6830381
You're making a mistake there.
Shikieiki didn't appoint Yuyuko to rule the Netherworld, it was the Great Yama.
Shikieiki is just one of many judges.

>>6830445
>The spellcard rules also protect her
Spellcard rules don't protect anyone. That is dumb and defeats the purpose of battles in the first place.

>>6830444
>EX-Yuka (Youkai Moe, the Kioh Gyoku version who has the Ultimate Magic) EX-Alice (Alice with the Ultimate Magic in Mystic Square Extra)

>>6830451
Can't tell if troll

Makai hardly counts as a hell. It's where supernatural creatures live, not where humans are sent as a punishment.

Or so it seems to me.

>>6830451

Canon undefeatable, not canon strongest.

>>6830426
Precisely. Memories related to the Gensokyo Chronicle, to be exact.

It is my personal canon that the Ultimate Magic is simply the ability to manipulate flowers. After all, ZUN does say it has to be something moe.

>>6830459
>Kioh Gyoku version
That's like having a spin-off universe where Captain America fights Batman and conclude which one if stronger based on that.

>>6830464
>Can't be beaten.
>This somehow means they are not the strongest

what?

>>6830458
They do. They protect them from unavoidable or deadly attacks. Danmaku is just a violent but beautiful game now.
That said, Reimu has still her Musou Tensei hax. She will always win like that.

>>6830442

It can't be that hard, Not for the cheif maid of the scarlet devil mansion!

>>6830459
>Ultimate Magic
Suigin still thinks that this bullshit is correct?

>Yamame>Minoriko=Letty>Cirno>Flower Tank>Parsee

How can Parsee be below Yamame?

>>6830491
as an imperfect analogy: a fly would be very difficult to kill with just your hand, it will almost always evade you. Only an idiot would call a fly "strong" however.

>>6830491
To hold immunity is not the same as to hold power.

>>6830509
But you CAN kill a fly with your hand. What the fuck are you talking about?

Im a ignorant piece of shit so excuse my question, Yuka power is only to control Flowers, how the fuck people compare her or even say that she is stronger than Yukari who can control basically everything with boundaryhax?

>>6830489
It's a list that includes VIVIT.

>>6830492
>They protect them from unavoidable or deadly attacks
They protect them from unavoidable attacks but not from deadly ones. Danmaku like the ones Utsho throws about are deadly. Says so in Marisa's grimoir.

>>6830524
Ok, I'll give you that those two can't be touched by yama. Still, they are not the strongest Touhou. They just can't be touched by death.

>>6830527

Boundary hax is kind of strong till proven otherwise.

Same for Ultimate magic youkai moe power of flower, except its proven, so it's not really the same.

>>6830524

Imperfect analogy. Assume it's a fly that moves so fast that you cannot strike it.
But still, it is not more damaging than a fly.

>>6830509
A good analogy. They don't have 0 ATT, like a fly would. Well, actually, there are flies that do have a non-zero ATT and would probably be deadly given enough time and assuming unkillability. In groups they can kill huge mammals, you know.

>>6830527
The youkai's power grow as they age and she is an especially old one. The control over flower ability is only an extra. It's almost written down literally in PMISS.
Yukari is still in another league though. Her "extra power" is just superior.

Well u'd break her borderz between Yama and Mortal of corse. lolz XDDD

>>6830564

To a powerful enough foe, they can be considered to have 0 attack power, between either not being able to damage the foe, or because the foe is just killing them over and over and not giving them a chance to act.

Simply because you cannot lose and your opponent cannot win does not mean that you will win too.

Yukari's power is theoretically all-encompassing, but as has been stated many times, the extent to which she can utilize it is not known. She is not actually all-powerful, but what she actually can and can't do is another matter.

Why send a bunch of old ladies and a lewd shrine maiden on a combat mission when there are little sisters who would jump at the chance to go outside and play?

>>6830556
This still wouldn't work.
Eventually the fly would have to land. Eventually it would have to rest. Eventually you can strike it and eventually you can kill it.

You can't kill an immortal.
You can't beat an immortal.

Also, take into consideration that Zun himself has stated he didn't want to put either into 12.3 because he thought they were too strong to put in the game. Remember this is a game where Yukari, Remilia, Sakuya, Yuyuko, Komachi, Reimu, and Suwako are playable.

>>6830592
>Eventually the fly would have to land. Eventually it would have to rest.

Which is taken care of in canon that the immortals still feel (and avoid) the sting of injuries and the pain of repeated death.

>>6830592

they would unbalance the game, not canonically too strong, was it not?

>>6830592

Because they would be too strong for a fighting game, what with having a regenerating health bar and whatnot.

Yuka has overwhelming raw power, anon. Simple as that.

She does not have any experience with Magic at the ending of Mystic Square to the point of stalking Marisa in order to learn something.

After Mystic Square ZUN pushed the REVAMP button and things get different. While the previous games should not be forgotten they shouldn't be taken very seriously and they are supposed to be a obscure part of Touhou.

Yuka's power of flower manipulation is only related to her danmaku, like Sunflowers throwing countless seeds around and those seeds becoming bullets for example.

>>6830592
gameplay mechanics =/= actuality

>>6830527
It's been a recurring discussion on /jp/ the arguments ae pretty much this:

>Yukarifag's logic: Yukari can manipulate borders so she can manipulate the border of manipulation so she can manipulate everything and always wins.

>Yukafag's logic: Yuka has the Ultimate Magic and since it is ultimate it is past everything so she can use it to do everything and so she always wins.

>>6830605
"No experience with magic" is kind of pushing it for someone who can shoot lasers out of their hands.

Ryougi Shiki can destroy anything.

Flandre Scarlet can destroy anything.

Thus, we are bleach.

>>6830598
>>6830600
If that was a problem, then why not just make it so one death equals a ko...

But hell, they don't even kill each other in 12.3. They just knock each other out. The point of "oh they can't die" is meaningless.

Even if it was a valid point...Suwako is in the game, Suwako is a goddess, goddesses are immortal.

Face it. They are too strong.

>>6830582
True, but not all definitions of a maximum require it to be strictly above all else. In fact, definitions akin to "for every x, a >= x" and "there is no x such as x > a" are usually used. The sole fact that a situation exists where both opponents cannot defeat each other proves that strenght does not form a linear ordering.

>>6830605
I wouldn't say she has "no experience", after all isn't she the one who originally came up with the Master Spark?

>>6830620
That's the "raw power" I said, it's not actual magic. If you play her route on MS you will see that she can't even execute simple spells and starts to get interested in Magic. We don't know if she grew bored of it or not too, but that's speculation territory and I rather not touch that.

>>6830632
That's doesn't necessarily means IT'S the master spark. We can speculate that Marisa created / copied it based on Yuka's attack by her own means.

>>6830540
Yes, maybe Okuu uses dangerous danmaku, but she is not supposed to.
That's exactly why it was stated in PMISS that young youkai like Medicine Melancholy (or stupid in this case) are more dangerous than the old ones. They just don't know how to hold back yet.

>>6830630
That makes me want to say that ZUN was either coming up with excuses or being uncreative regarding game play mechanics.

You can't use gameplay as a way of comparing powerlevels in Touhouverse. It just doesn't work out.

I hate how everybody assumes Yukari can manipulate all borders, all the time, at the snap of her fingers. That's bullshit. Some borders take more time and effort than others.

>>6830647
But my point was the while she may not be as good at magic as some of the other heroines she is the one who originally created the master spark(or an attack of striking similarity). This at least shows that she is SOMEWHAT adept at magic.

>>6830671
Ah yes, that I agree.

>>6830668
Oh look, I didn't know we had another border youkai lurking /jp/! Please, when you have the time take me into Gensokyo so we can discuss other boundary related topics over a cup of tea.

>Danmaku like the ones Utsho throws about are deadly. Says so in Marisa's grimoir.

>Though it's fine to graze the danmaku a little, touching the fireball just a little bit makes me fear for my life. Hence, large evasions are a must.

>>6830671
The idea is that the original Master Spark was not magic. It was raw power, a technique developed and used essentially different from how magic is used, just like how there are all other sorts of abilities possessed by other Touhou that aren't "magic", though they might not seem any different from it.

Or, that's how I've understood it.

Anybody know if idlechan ever got a new touhou hentai board?
Old one's been busted for months.

>>6830693
I'm fairly sure the ability to shoot bullets counts as magic in all cases. ZUN is just off his rocker.

Okay, okay, maybe its that Yuka can do it without incantations or spell components, limitations magicians must abide by. But then, what could there be gained from studying Marisa, who leeches all her power from a magical artifact?

It doesn't seem like the majority of youkai even care about magic. They all have their inherent mystic powers. They don't really need to learn it.

>>6830693
>Master Spark was not magic

have some lewd judge.

Anyways,it seems people here are confusing ideas. You can be beaten without being killed. Which is what Yama does when people get violent.

>>6830714
Define Magic for us anon.

>>6830716
Through lectures?

>>6830706
Marisa does her own researches and such. Yuka was looking for something simple to copy it from Marisa (oh the irony) in order to start experimenting magic on the MS ending.

>>6830718
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define+magic

>>6830686
If you read PMiSS and SSiB what I'm saying wouldn't be mystical. They clearly state that some borders are harder than others to manipulate.

>>6830744
As expected you don't know what you are talking about. Please refrain from posting.

>>6830718
In the Touhouverse it's kind of like science. If you are lacking the inherent ability to produce a certain effect you have to use mystical resources and formulaic procedures to achive what you want. It's magic for Marisa, but it doesn't have to be for Yuuka.

>>6830693 here.
>>6830711 is more or less what I was getting at. Sakuya's timehax is not magic, nor is Remi's fatehax. It's likely that the original Master Spark was not magic either. Magic seems to be something specific to magicians such as Marisa, Alice, Patchy, Byakuren etc

>>6830764
This is actually a more persuasive response than what I was anticipation.. I agree with that.

>>6830748
That's BS. Quote something if you can. She already manipulated the border of thruth and lie to completely undermine reality. Then there is the border between life and death. I can't imagine something more fundamental and vital as that. "There is not a single defense against or weak point in the ability to manipulate boundaries."- her PMISS page

>>6830825
She can't even gap herself to the moon capital, and you want to assume she's omnipotent?

>>6830825
The border between Fantasy moon and Real Moon took a lot of time.

>>6830848
Maybe she didn't gap to the moon because she didn't want to create anymore of an issue with the Moon and Gensokyo than what was already going on at the time of SSiB. I mean what do you think the lunarians would think if they saw the same youkai who invaded them suddenly appear in their CAPITAL.

>>6830858
No, that's not stated anywhere. She simply lied on the spot and they jumped into that damn pond.
>>6830848
Never said she were, but she is as close as you can get.

>>6830900
No, she actually couldn't just gap herself to the moon a second time, because someone who is even older as Tsukuyomi himself and someone who has similar powers as her as long as it concerns the moon didn't want to let her.

tl;dr

Reimu has plot armor.

>>6830920
"She is also capable of going anywhere through a gap in space, whether it be her entire body or only a part of her."

Yukari = Azathoth or Yog-sothoth or whatever truly primordial critter
Yamaxanaduu = The apostle Saint Peter, or Leviathan from the Hellraiser franchise

hmm...

>>6830982
It's canon that the sources of Gensokyo can be wrong.

>>6831155
I think we have enough canon evidence of gap usage to call this one true.

Why Yukari is not omnipotent:

Tohno Shiki has the power to "kill anything".
Yukari has the power to "manipulate any border".

In theory. It's not far of a stretch to say that some borders are beyond her or would take her ages to figure out or something like.

She has been defeated by Cirno and Mystia of all people.

>>6830103
Which is made all the better by the fact that the Hindu Yama isn't really a deity. He's the first mortal to ever have died, and upon descending to the empty underworld, he concluded that he was the biggest around, therefore he was da boss. He's been da boss ever since.

Shikieiki can kill servants.

Discuss.

Completely unrelated: I ordered a couple of hard tacos from Taco Bell and I asked them to hold the lettuce, but they put lettuce on my hard tacos anyways.

>>6832778
>Completely unrelated: I ordered a couple of hard tacos from Taco Bell and I asked them to hold the lettuce, but they put lettuce on my hard tacos anyways.

Those Bastards!

>of course; how does one fight a death god?

By being something that's not able to die, I guess? Also rocks. Big rocks.

>>6832787
Speaking of which, this is the latest fight in the Touhou Tag Dream 4-koma series, translated on Danbooru!

Series Page:
http://danbooru.donmai.us/pool/show/714

>>6830920
I've wondered that.

If somebody like Reimu or Yukari needs to be around to maintain the Hakurei border and keep Gensokyo sealed from the rest of the world, it seems like the Lunarians would need somebody like that for their place on the back of the moon too, wouldn't they?

Seems like ZUN's missing the chance for a Lunarian border maiden.

>>6832741
>Yukari has the power to "manipulate any border".
>It's not far of a stretch to say that some borders are beyond her
How would that not contradict "any border"?

>>6830668
Thank you, anon. It's about time somebody said that.
In cage of a Lunatic Runagate, she clearly said it took quite some time ON A FULL MOON to open a small portal to transport just herself and her familiar to the moon. Even if there "isn't a defense to borders", one could simply avoid them by not having such border to manipulate. After all, her power is restricted to borders, and some borders are more difficult than others. I can imagine some may even be impossible to manipulate. Like, manipulating the border of border manipulation.

>>6832838
I'm tempted to say logical contradictions, but that's kind of her shtick. Could she screw with the border between squares and circles and make a shape that was both at once? Most the touhous' powers are so vague in their wording that they can be interpreted in various ways.

>>6830320
>If you've achieved Enlightenment (Nirvana), you are permitted to ascend to Bhava-Agra. Bhava-Agra seems to be rules by an unknown god.

Bhava-Agra is ruled by The Dragon. (Or maybe A Dragon, I forget exactly.) The closest we ever get to this part of the universal bureaucracy is Iku playing Jimmy Hart.

>>6832741
>Yukari has the power to "manipulate any border".

So who or what could outhax Yukari's ability of border manipulation?

>>6832906
Some things just don't have borders.

Whoa whoa, I'm reading calmly and suddenly it's agreed on that it was Yuka who stole Marisa's Master Spark? When the latter one's charming characteristic is that she steals various attacks from some of the games?

Daymn, I thought favoritism wouldn't go past facts.

>powerlevels thread
>Touhou powerlevels thread
>Touhou being taken seriously when ZUN has made continuity errors and even admitted being sucky at story-telling

I don't like using green text but Godammit people.

Don't forget that ZUN said that everyone's abilities only apply ''to a certain extent'' in order to avoid cheapness, eg: Sakuya stopping time and slashing her opponents neck.

>>6832958
>even admitted being sucky at story-telling
it's called being humble

>>6832906
>>6832838

Yukari's power is "the power to (POTENTIALLY) manipulate any border". Yukari herself cannot utilize that power to its full potential. It might be that some borders are too complex/abstract, or she does not have the sufficient willpower to, or etc.

It's like how an orange has the ability to "be used as a bludgeon to beat someone to death", but only people with extreme bludgeoning know-how/strength will be able to do it. Much like Yukari's powers, an orange simply is not easily wielded.

Guys.. Can't we just all agree that Yukari always wins and let this thread die?

>>6833010
But that's Reimu's power.

>>6833007
>It's like how an orange has the ability to "be used as a bludgeon to beat someone to death", but only people with extreme bludgeoning know-how/strength will be able to do it. Much like Yukari's powers, an orange simply is not easily wielded.
This is the funniest post I have read all day.

>>6833007
I think that with at least 1,200 years of practice one could easily learn how to properly wield an orange.

Let's just recap on some things.

Kaguya and Mokou. Both are immortal. Possible Eirin as well.

Reisen. Potentially able to control brain waves. In doing so she could calm, maybe even change the mind of the Yama.

Yukari. Borders. "Ohay. I'm in hell? Thats a border"

Remilia. Ultimate jedi mind trick "You don't want to send me to hell" "...I dont want to send you to hell" "You want to go home and rethink your life" "..I want to go home and rethink my life"

Keine. She unmade an entire village. I think she can unmake a silly yama.

Cirno. Obligatory.

The only way I can see Shiki as being the strongest touhou character...would be..if..

Her ability were to strip people of their abilities. But I havent found anything that says that..

>>6833041
No no no.

PERMABANNED ability.

As in, the girls try to use their powers, but Sikeiki waggles her finger and says "NU-UH, GIRLIE! YOU ARE FAAAR TOO YOUNG TO BE TRYIN' TO ESCAPE THE YAMA!" and SUDDENLY, the girls find themselves unable to hax their way away.

Then Sikeiki gets on with her business.

>>6833041
>Keine. She unmade an entire village. I think she can unmake a silly yama.

Keine unmade the village and Yukari laughed it off.

Like I said the last time this came up, I would guess that magic in Toohoo is two-fold: the details of the ability, and the raw power to back it up. The specifics of Yukari's ability may be stupidly broken, but it's likely that Achey has the pure force of magic will to suppress any attempts Yukari makes to fuck with her directly.

Why didn't anyone mention Wriggle? She could summon swarms of venomous insects to bite/sting you.

Don't forget Koishi. Her powers could make her the grand mastermind of all Touhous without anyone knowing. Maybe she already is.

>>6833058
Because he says it he must be right!

Eiki-sama is essentially an entity that has achieved Nirvana. I don't think anyone is strong enough to defeat her, and I don't see why anyone would want if they were a good person. Eiki-sama is extremely compassionate so please respect and heed her advice accordingly.

>>6833082
No she isn't she is a Judge of the dead. I think the touhou your referring to would be Tenshi.

>>6833041
>Remilia. Ultimate jedi mind trick "You don't want to send me to hell" "...I dont want to send you to hell" "You want to go home and rethink your life" "..I want to go home and rethink my life"
She doesn't have anywhere near that level of control over it, as far as anyone can tell.

As for Keine, she didn't actually unmake the village - just hid the history for a while. She can't destroy history.

>>6833058
That's just retarded. If the judge of the dead had the power to stop all people from doing evil things then there wouldn't be any point in sending them to hell!

And I'm fairly sure that just because her ability is to judge things in black and white doesn't mean she can arbitrarily make up the rules.

>>6832856
While I do agree with you're two part theory about powerlevels I have to disagree that Eiki is more powerful than Yukari. Although Eiki probably has more "raw power" than Yukari, her ability is insignificant compared to the manipulation of any border.

I didn't realize that this thread was so large when I replied to it. Just reading all of these replies makes it quite obvious who has actually played the games and who has not. Regardless, please heed Eiki-sama's warnings and lead a good and fitting life.

>>6832944
No, it's suggested that Yuka was the basis for the Master Spark that Marisa managed to reverse-engineer, and that the curious Yuka decided to try to learn magic to extend her own abilities.

I don't know what this is based on at all and it sounds kind of fishy.

Also, if Yukari could manipulate any border, why didn't she just manipulate the border between "Toyohime + Yorihime" and "people who are buttdevastated"?

>>6833135
I don't think Yuka uses magic so much as she just projects sheer power through her umbrella or whatever.
It's to magic as if a firehose is used to water a garden.

>>6833113
Not that guy, but even if Yukari's ability is theoretically omnipotence, that doesn't mean she has enough power in her to carry it to its logical conclusion. How much have we seen her do, anyways? Gap between spaces, merge the illusionary and the real (in Gensokyo that doesn't seem difficult in the first place, despite being a real place that still exists contiguously with Earth). Nothing too taxing, nothing too overpowered.

>>6833145
Trying to explain magical death lasers in rational ways is a fool's errand. And it leaves you prone to interpreting facts in ways so as to reinforce your prejudices regarding the character.

Even Wriggle Nightbug, a youkai so weak and so insignificant as to be nearly incomparable to Yuka Kazami, is capable of spraying bullets through the nighttime air. Am I to believe that this is accomplished by projecting sheer power out of her fingertips?

Well, I see what you're getting at, and that's that youkai don't need to research their spells, possessing certain innate supernatural ability, but be careful how you phrase it. It's not something unique to Yuka, with whom brute force and a lack of subtlety are often associated. Magic is magic, and to refer to only that type used by magicians such as Patchouli or Marisa as magic per se is absurd. Youkai can shoot magical bullets because they are inherently magical creatures.

>>6833175
Her danmaku is probably small bugs.
Re: Unreasonable Butterfly Storm.

I mean, there's no real reason you couldn't make up stuff at least somewhat relating to each Touhou about their specifics of danmaku.

>>6833186
Is Nitori's danmaku made of small bombs?

>>6833186
Well, yeah, but making stuff up for no reason just tends to bother me. I guess it's my autism acting up again.

Also, Yuka does have attacks other than Master Spark. Do those count as magic? I think so. Even if youkai have a certain talent for showering the landscape with bullets, it can't be something that comes naturally to them.

>>6833202
>it can't be something that comes naturally to them.
They're youkai, I think by definition it can just come naturally to them. Bullet youkai?

But seriously, a ton of Yuka's other attacks are explicitly flowers, as in PoFV. And that does, as far as I can tell, come naturally to her.

>>6833229
Her last attack in LLS is basically a flower made out of bullets, and her shot in MS is flowers. SKG too.

>>6833073

Wriggle's worst enemy: The crop duster.

>>6833255

North by Northwest staring Wriggle?

>>6833283

Yes.

Now to find a good artist to do that very scene with Wriggle.

YUKARI ALWAYS WINS
I got the last post in so I win