/jp/ - Otaku Culture

/jp/ doesn't know Japanese.

yep, just keep goin, no matter how slow you'll get there eventually. If i can do it fucking anyone can.

>I know Russian, English, Italian, French and some German but this is way harder than all of them combined.

troll more...

I know 1756 kanji signs from Heisigs method but I'm kinda slowing down, even though there are only about 300 left.

Any tips what I can do? Didn't learn grammar etc. yet.

Also implying /jp/ is helpful etc.

Japanese will be far more difficult than any Romantic language. I heard German gets pretty difficult, and I know little about Russian.

Continue to grind through Kanji as if each one wants to give you a blow job. Watch any form of Japanese media and start listening to pronunciation, emphasis, and use of phrases you recognize. At around 1000-1200 Kanji memorized, start reading and translating Japanese texts. There are many novels that can help you.

Some books that can help you:
Breaking into Japanese Literature - Giles Murray
Read Real Japanese - Michael Emmerich
Common Japanese Collocations - Kakuko Shoji
Japanese Sentence Patterns for Effective Communication - Taeko Kamiya

>>6828748
>even though there are only about 300 left.
Hahaha, boy do I have news for you.

>>6828748
>I know 1756 kanji signs from Heisigs method
>Any tips what I can do? Didn't learn grammar etc. yet.

This is why RTK and everyone using it is retarded.

>>6828758
no you don't.
but at least I would be finished with the first book and simple "remember sign" stuff, you know?
this gets pretty boring if you can't see your success.

>>6828738

Want to test me? Let's converse in one of those of your choice!

Just go learn grammar already, install rikaichan and go read some shit so you don't get bored.

Fucking kanji, how does it work? It's nothing like Chinese.

>>6828783
Thats the problem.
In chinese, usually there is one way of pronouncing it but in moon there is multiple way way to interpret the kanji base on what word it is use with.
夢 - dream - yume
But when used for Reimu it is just MU.

>>6828749
>Japanese will be far more difficult than any Romantic language.
For Chinese speakers?
Japanese has only 100 or syllable patters (e.g. ka, shi, kyon, etc.), all of which don't raally have any "exotic" sound. compared to how many syllable patters in French? Is French pronunciation easy?

>>6828779

THIS, and just pick words to learn as you fucking read something cool. Fuck. Yes you will not understand everything, but if you can get around 80-90%, fuck it.

You MUST read, A LOT to learn shit properly. Read read read read read. More important than anything else (moreso than anki and textbooks especially).

>>6828790
You picked a pretty easy example there.
With at least 80% of all kanji it's pretty easy to know when to use Onyomi and when to use Kunyomi.
It gets pretty mean with kanji like 生 that have a shitton of kunyomi, though.
Or something like 辛い. Is it からい? Or is it つらい? Or maybe even づらい. Better be attentive to context lad.

>>6828792

There's also the issue of pitch accent and devoicing, the former of which is something foreigners tend to struggle with.

>>6828808
Neither of those are crucial. They vary greatly in different dialects anyway.

I don't speak 日本語, but I do speak 漢語。

The important thing with language study is routine. Anyone can understand a language, it's not like nuclear physics or some shit where you have to struggle just to wrap your head around the concepts, it's all about memorization. And from what I've noticed, the concentration you can spend on memorizing things is limited and needs to be restored through a good night's sleep. So the best you can do is do a little memorization daily, rather than trying to study for hours on one day and then take a break for a week. 10 minutes every day would probably beat 2 hours every week.

So basically what you want to do is download Anki and make sure to use that daily, and never miss a single day.

>>6828749

>RomaNic

OP here. The reason I want to learn is because I plan on leaving everything and go live in a Zen temple, and on their page they say it's very helpful if you know decent Japanese before you join them. I'm not really interested in contemporary Japanese culture.

>>6828870
I'm pretty sure they don't want random Americans joining them. If you want to experience that lifestyle then maybe go and build a log cabin out in the middle of a forest somewhere.

Not op here.

>>6828878
Not true.
While I was in japan I even met a monk who studied abroad in england and had a few gaijin friends.
Not everyone is racist you know?

But this was in bigger city though, not somewhere in the mountains .

http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com

This site gives some good advice for learning Japanese.

>>6828884
>Not even is racist, you know?
True, but in Japan racism is almost universal.

http://kanjidamage.com/

This guy's site used to be known as Kanji Dicks (I personally prefer this name). The name and when you look at the site, it sounds and looks like a troll; but this guy really knows how hard learning this language can be and how to make it easier for you to learn. One of his methods to helping you memorize kanji is that he breaks kanji up into simpler radicals and does other stuff to make them easy to remember.

Now, I personally haven't been able to work very hard or even get much time for my Japanese studies, so I haven't gotten to working with kanji just yet. However, I've read the intro and was introduced to this by a friend who really knows the language pretty well and used this site to learn it, so I can guarantee it works really well.

>>6828891
I'm sorry to hear that you believe what 4chan says seriously.

>>6828878

The temple is lead by a German monk. I doubt they're so racist or they wouldn't let the place be run by a German.

Buddhists are different than ordinary Japanese people. Of course there could be Buddhist racists, but this surely isn't the norm.

>>6828913
I have been there. The default reaction to you is condescension. If you meet a nice person, you will be met with the barest tolerance, and if you don't, you will be met with open disgust.

>>6828934
I'm Japanese, where did you go? That sounds odd. Japanese people don't usually show open disgust, even to people that they genuinely hate. Bare tolerance even sounds sketchy since we keep up appearances pretty well. What specific things happened to you?s

never change /jp/

Can you halp me on mah nihongo? -> I want to be a monk -> racist japan is racist

ololo

>>6828964
I don't remember the monk part being in our routine.

>>6828943
I was in Tokyo for a week on my gap year before going to Southeast Asia. You're right in that they kept up appearances fairly well, but I'm fairly sensitive to body language and I could tell that nobody I talked to wanted to be anywhere near me. I'm not particularly remarkable looking and about average weight, so it's probably not that. I can't really explain specific things that they did that were 'tells' that they were feeling that way but I could definitely perceive it.

OP here. I have no Japanese contacts and I've never been to Japan so I don't know about racism. The girl I know from Kyoto that is helping me with Japanese by conversing is ethnically 100% Korean, so maybe that's different. She doesn't speak Korean though, only Japanese. At least in her, there's not one bit of racism.

>>6828870
That's an interesting reason to learn if I ever saw one, but still.
Just read shit. Learning languages without actually interacting / reading in them is pretty silly.
That's like studying cooking books and thinking it makes you a master chef.
Just fuss up and read some stuff, if you're not interested in "otaku culture" find something else which interests you.

/jp/ - NEET/Hikikomori

>>6828967
It's like being a black guy in europe, what did you expect?
You just stand out pretty much from the mass so people are irritated.

At least that's the impression I got.

>>6828979

The things that interest me most are written in old Japanese. :(

But anyway. I am talking to my girl- friend from Kyoto daily, and she tells me new words.

I also try to read short children stories

>>6828967
That's not racism or disgust at all. It's just intimidation. Most of us don't have much experience with foreigners and don't speak English (the assumed language). There's also the fact that foreigners (especially white and black) are much bigger than us physically, so that adds to to intimidation. When you get to know people personally, they open up.

"Racism" exists in our country, but it's not quite "racism" in the normal western sense. It's more of an extension of "us them". It even happens within Japan. For example, If someone from Tokyo moves into Osaka, he'll have a hard time being accepted. Generally, most people have no problem with any type (race, country, etc...) as long as you get to know them.

>>6828985
I'm from Europe (well, UK). Black people do not get that kind of unvoiced disgust from most people here, whereas I struggled to find a single person in Japan who didn't give me that vibe.

Compared to the other countries I visited, even in Vietnam (where I was frequently misidentified as American) I didn't get such an unfriendly vibe from most strangers. It was distinctly Japan that was like that.

Maybe Japanese are only racist to ugly, ignorant Americans?

What about a handsome, cultured European?

>>6828988
That's not true at all. Most of the people I met in Southeast Asia (went to Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Hong Kong) did not give me that kind of reception, and I'm more or less certain that everywhere except Hong Kong they were not used to meeting foreigners. They were positively friendly, whereas Japanese people gave me the impression of urgently trying to think of a way to get away from me as quickly as possible.

>>6828988

This.

>>6828998
We don't hate Americans at all. That's just something that Americans assume because Europe always says "the world hates America", but it actually means "Europe hates America". Our perception of American politics differs according to our political views, but we generally have nothing against American people.

>The Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the US Department of State has compiled approximate learning expectations for a number of languages. Of the 63 languages analyzed, the five most difficult languages to reach proficiency in speaking and proficiency in reading (for native English speakers who already know other languages), requiring 88 weeks, are "Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean". The Foreign Service Institute considers Japanese to be the most difficult of this group.

It took me a real long time to become fluent in Japanese. It's very hard. If you really want to learn it, dedicate yourself like you've never done before.

>>6829008

We sure do. Me and many other Europeans can't wait the day China is the superpower. We would even pick chinks over gringos, yankees or however you wanna call them.

日本語 = moon in moon?

>>6829006
Like I said, it's intimidation. A lot of us(Japanese, not southeastern asians) are simply scared of being unable to help you properly for our lack of linguistic ability and looking like idiots or just scared because of your appearance. Whites and blacks simply look intimidating to us in general.

>>6829023
I do not know how you can honestly say that I terrify Japanese people but Vietnamese who think I am American are still friendly to me.

If you go to Japan and wanna get laid ... here is the best tactic to do it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LauaI21uFgY

Works every time I slept with over 50 women while in Osaka

>>6829023
You seem like a honest guy so I'm having a question:
Whats the difference between white/black/asian(chinese/korean), is everyone getting the same treatment?

>>6829027

>>6829026
I'm Japanese, and I'm telling you. Before I really had much exposure and got to know foreigners, I was intimidated. You don't even need to ask me if you distrust a Japanese person. Nearly everyone that has been in Japan for a long time will tell you that Japanese people are generally intimidated by foreigners.

>>6829026

Look, he's Japanese, he knows what they feel. It's a fact. It's like that. It's not a thing you agree or disagree on. It can be strange to you, OK. That's fine. But it doesn't change the fact. Japanese people are shy and scared of everything foreign and intimidated by your appearance. Just deal with it. IT sounds to me you're the racist one who wants to portray Japanese as these xenophobic evil people

>>6828988

I've lived in Japan for a decade and I have to disagree with parts of your sentiment. I find people love to speak English to me as it helps them with it, the same way I spoke Japanese as much as I could to improve.

I agree, though, that there is a hint of harmless xenophobia that exists in certain aspects of greater consciousness. However I find the same thing when I visit the United States.

>>6829035
>>6829036
It's just such a weak excuse to turn it around into 'Oh, well, it's your fault that they were rude to you, you were scaring the shit out of them because you were foreign.' Maybe it's true, I don't know that, but that doesn't make it entirely acceptable.

I've read a few blogs of people who've been to japan for longer periods of time and they all say something like japaneseguy in this thread.
Either it's a huge conspiracy or there's probably some truth to it.

>>6829030
It depends on the individual, but generally Whites and Blacks shouldn't find much outright hatred, right wingers may dislike Chinese and Koreans though. Southeastern asians are generally seen as poor, so you can say our perception of them is similar to American perception of Mexicans, some of us have no issue, and some of us see them as poor potential criminals.

You can't really just generalize everyone. I know a lot of westerners think we're all the same, but we still have our own opinions and political ideas.

>>6829039
Well yes, some of us basically use foreigners as free English practice opportunities. I was just highlighting the intimidation because it seemed to be what he was experiencing the most.

Thanks for answering!

>>You can't really just generalize everyone.
True, I was more interested in YOUR opinion as a japanese person, not as japan as a whole.

外人が怖いとか、一般論で語るなよｗ
大阪や東京の街歩いてたらそこらじゅうにいるだろｗ

>>6829046
>>6829052
Bullshit. Your english is too good for a Jap.
Majority of them cant differentiate L/R and can only use the A I U E O sound vowel even while typing.

>>6829059
怖い人は怖いんですよ。別に見かけじゃなくても英語が話せないから話しか
けられたらどうしようとか普通にあるでしょ。「ムリムリムリ」とかすご
いリアクションする人居るじゃん。

Hello. I'm Japanese, and I hate every single one of you. All of you, especially Americans, are retarded hamburger and pizza eating pigs disgusting. European pussy is no better, mind you. Have you even produced anything interesting in history except gayness, cowboys and French people? We're pretty much perfect; sexiest warrior (Samurai), best religion (Shinto & Zen), best swords (Katana), best entertainment (Animu & Mango), best games (Final Fantasy), best console (PS), and I can go on and on. What has your civilization done, other than jack off to pictures of girls drawn by us Japanese? I guess it feels good to make fun of other nations, but you take it to a whole new level. I mean, at least the Chinese are good factory workers, what are you good for?

>>6829068
Ohwow, and it's probably people like you who go around claiming how racist japan is.

ＭＯＴＨＥＲＦＵＣＫ　ＦＯＲＥＩＧＮＥＲＳ

ＷＥ　ＡＲＥ　ＲＵＤＥ　ＢＥＣＡＵＳＥ　ＹＯＵ　ＡＲＥ　ＲＵＤＥ

ＧＯ　ＨＯＭＥ

>>6829069
だからわざわざ「一般論」って書いてるだろが。
一人の外人のvibeとかアホか。そんな個人的な感情ほっとけよ。そんなもん
のために「一般論」まで話持ち上げて弁解する必要なし。

>>6829069
Even I'm getting intimidated when I meet a foreigner on the street asking for directions in english.
And I think my english is pretty decent at least. I think that's fucking normal any way you look at it.

>>6829068
Some of us speak perfectly adequate English, just like some westerners can speak perfect Japanese.

Also, are you new to /jp/? I've been here for a while posting my passport to unbelievers.

>>6829081
But I bring money to your country and you sure as hell need them right now.

>>6829082
それは分かってるんだけどたまに反論しないと気が済まないんだよ。普段は
無視してるけど、なんか勝手に勘違いして勝手に日本人を人種差別者に見
立てられるのがムカつく。

>>6829086
Sorry for doubting you. You must be the one of those minority that can speak english well. Not generalizing but I have met 2 japanese so far and both of them have the problem with stuff like traffic light/right.
You grew up outside of japan?

>>6829102
I grew up in the US and Japan. But I didn't meet many foreigners until I was 5 or 6. That's about when I started learning English.

>>6829101
自国から国が遠くなるほど偏見が当たり前のように思われるから。日本でも
掲示板にいけば「アメリカはこうだから」とか「白人はああだから」とか
日本の外に行ったことすらない人が本気で言ってるじゃん、いちいち気に
したら負け。

>>6829113
分かってる心算でもやっちゃうんだよねぇ。
それに偽日本人とかにすぐ騙される人多いし・・・

でも、うん。普段は無視してるよ。

>>6829101
反論したいなら、もっとうまくやれ

You felt a "different" vibe? What a big deal! I tell you what. I felt a different vibe in NY too. They were giving me this vibe that they were trying to get away from me. Guess what? Everyone is in a hurry in NY. It's a rude city in a sense. that's NY for ya!

Now, has it ever occurred to you that Tokyo is just as big?

どうだ？

ITT: /jp/ got owned by Japan

>>6829171
反発的な反論をすると/jp/では嫌われると思うんだけどな。出来るだけ敵は
最小限に押さえておきたいからね。

>>6829205
反発的ねぇ。わざわざJapなんてコテつけてwe日本人とか持ち出さなくても十
分通用する反論だから、誰が敵とかもわからないよ。

>>6829237
True, true, in fact setting yourself up as a japanese when defending Japan is nothing but a negative impression for the neutral observer.

>>6829237
はっきり日本人だって言っておかないと「お前も俺らと同じ外人だろ、なん
でそんな偉そうに語ってるんだよてめぇ」とか言われるから付けてるだけ
。ってかjapの何が悪いの？５０年代じゃあるまいし、カルフォルニアの友
達の間では普通にjapって言ってたけどなぁ。言葉自体は別に悪くないんだし
要は使い方だよ。

>>6829248
That's why I tried to be polite and unprovocative.

>>6829265
>>6829248も書いてる通り。しかもネット上の真実なんて確かめようがない
し。要はそんなもん持ち出さなくても、上手い反論する方法はいくらでも
ある。

とういうか、前のレスは「敵を作りたくない」とか言ってたのに、今度はJ
ap云々とか話そらしてるけど、反論みたいなのは言語関係なくあんまり上手
くないようだな。

To what extent can I ignore kanji pronunciation/stroke order/etc. if I only plan on reading the language and not speaking or writing it? Is it necessary to learn reading/writing/speaking simultaneously in order to get the hang of any specific one?

>>6829319
Not sure how it is in Japanese, but in Chinese reading hanzi is piss easy, you recognize them very quickly. It's writing that's very hard.

>>6829311
別に自分が特に反論が上手いとか思ってないけど。
>はっきり日本人だって言っておかないと「お前も俺らと同じ外人だろ、
なん
でそんな偉そうに語ってるんだよてめぇ」とか言われるから付けてるだけ。

は経験上良くある事だからやり始めたのは本当だよ。
>>6828934　みたいに自称日本経験者が現れれる。

It's a credibility issue. And I'm not about to lie, so I just say it outright.

>>6829328
だからそれで相手が納得するのか？確かめようがあるのか？>>6829248のう
ようなマイナス面もあるのが分かってるのか？自分がやりたいからってJa
pって使ったり、他の日本人が眉をしかめるような一般論まで話を持ち上げ
るのがいいことなのか？

もう一度言うが、個人的感情を殺してもっと上手く立ち回れ。

>>6829319
Stroke order is completely optional, but some people find it helps them internalize them better, especially if they don't learn them by radicals.

As for readings, I find it hard to imagine not knowing them. It would be a bit like trying to understand English without knowing how anything is pronounced, but knowing how words look. Besides, if you want to watch anime, or listen to drama CDs, or anything like that, it will do you no good to just know the word in kanji. And if you want to look up a kanji that you've seen, but don't know in the current context, the quickest way is to look up through typing the pronunciation.

However, I don't recommend learning readings simultaneously, because there are way too many of them and so many exceptions, and most books will throw in a bunch of readings that are almost never used. You should learn the readings of the words actual words, because with that, there's nearly always just one reading.

まぁ、一般論はやめろと言うならそれは構わないけど。

>だからそれで相手が納得するのか？確かめようがあるのか
>>6829086
>>6829102
納得してるみたいだけど？

>もう一度言うが、個人的感情を殺してもっと上手く立ち回れ。
じゃぁ、聞くけどさぁ。信憑性を疑われたときどうすればいいの？「お前は
なぜXと断言できるんだ」とか「俺は日本に言ったことがあるぜ」とか言わ
れたら日本人だって素直に言う以外にどうすればいいのよ？

まぁ、一般論はやめろと言うならそれは構わないけど。

>だからそれで相手が納得するのか？確かめようがあるのか
>>6829086
>>6829102
納得してるみたいだけど？

>もう一度言うが、個人的感情を殺してもっと上手く立ち回れ。
じゃぁ、聞くけどさぁ。信憑性を疑われたときどうすればいいの？「お前は
なぜXと断言できるんだ」とか「俺は日本に言ったことがあるぜ」とか言わ
れたら日本人だって素直に言う以外にどうすればいいのよ？

>>6829435
hey jap I demand pics
I have yellow fever

>>6829444
I'm a guy, though.

Stroke order helps when reading stylized characters. It also makes writing easier and more readable. Honestly it's not even that hard. Knowing a few rules and a handful of exceptions for weird radicals is enough to get the majority of kaji right even if you have never seen the before. This can be especially useful for kanji lookup in a dictionary by drawing the kanji.

Regarding readings, I recommend learning them as parts of words if possible. So for example if you want to learn the reading of 旅 you learn the word 旅行 (ryokou, travel). It's trivial to remember readings of kanji that you know words of. So you're basically getting the readings for free by learning more vocabulary (which is what you really need to understand anything). Bonus points if you have that word in a small example sentence and put it into an SRS like Anki so you never forget it.

Most importantly, keep going. Even if it's just reading some manga or game, exposure is what will make you truly progress and it's a fun, motivating activity. Even if you don't understand most of it, as long as you're enjoying yourself and keep doing it it's good stuff. Some listening practice is also good, so try looking for something you would enjoy with voices.

>>6829466
>Some listening practice is also good, so try looking for something you would enjoy with voices.
Any decent podcasts or something to follow? I never get much listening practice outside of playing voiced eroge, since I'm afraid of watching anime unsubbed in case I'll miss something. With a podcast, I figure it won't be as dangerous, since you don't have to understand everything for it to be worth following.

>>6829447
I know
I'ma girl

>>6829492
There are things like http://www.japanesepod101.com/.. But I can't comment on the quality. Check out http://forum.koohii.com/ for more resources, including transcripts for some games and other media.
For listening practice I mostly watch anime, listen to voice acting in games, watch random videos in Japanese (nicovideo is great for this) or the occasional movie. It might be strange at first but eventually you should start feeling comfortable, even forgetting that you're not reading subs all the time. If you fear missing out you can watch something you have already seen before, or with subs first and then RAW. Short (2-3 hours) material can be better for this purpose but anything is fine. The important part is that you're doing it because you like it, not because you "should" or you will burn out. I made that mistake once.

>>6829646
I was thinking more about podcasts for Japanese people, with otaku related news or something. No idea if Japanese people do that, though, but it sounds like a decent way to learn a little. I've considered rewatching stuff with subs off, but I generally don't enjoy rewatching that much, so I can't quite motivate myself for it.

I bet OP is decoding jap's conversation right now, lol.

>>6829781

You, sir, are clairvoyant

About time I get to post this again. U jelly?

>>6829984
Good job.
Now go translate some eroge for us.

>>6829984
Nice.

Not jealous, but I admire your accomplishment. I'm working my way there slowly, but surely.

>>6829984

OP here. I very, very jelly.

I have taken a few years of Japanese in university. I am still taking it. I have been taking the kanji proficiency exams.

Does anybody have a good book/website that could help me learn grammar? I'm just starting and trying to get a basic hold on grammar so I can apply the words/kanji that I learn to sentances.

Pic just here to attract attention.

>>6831535
http://www.guidetojapanese.org

Covers pretty much everything you need as a beginner.