/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Umineko thread.

So has /jp/ accepted Shkanontrice yet or do people still have the hope Kanon isn't in there?

hurr

>>6088898
You know, until EP7 came out I was damn sure any solution involving DID or imaginary friends or whatever would piss me off.

...But I admit it, I liked how it was handled and I liked EP7. Never thought I'd say this, but IMO Ryu pulled it off.

>>6088898
I still think Shkannontrice is right but there's also an actual Kanon that doesn't play little brother with Shannon.
I call it the Doublenon theory.

>>6088917
Except cross-dressing. Oh well.

>>6088898
Technically there's a chance, though small chance for existence of "another" real Kanon.
Or there could be even that in 'reality' they exist separately, but together in fictions.
Or to hope that Ryu will explain technical details.

>>6088930
So how do you explain stuff like this?

Episode 1 first twilight, Will solves by saying "The body that can't return to earth returns to illusion."

Episode 2 second twilight, "The role of the one who is illusion ends, it can't even leave a corpse"

Episode 3 first twilight, "The closed room forms a ring, the beginning and end overlap" (In the first twilight, Shannon is the first body found and Kanon is the last)

>>6088968

But that doesn't mean Kanon doesn't exists, because if he doesn't Jessica is a fucking incestuous lesbian and I luv much Jessicaxkanon and I liek Kanon cause he is cute.

>>6088968
Yasu (and Auau) obviously thought Kanon was a part she was supposed to play, and so wrote the scenario accordingly. She basically wrote it as "here they find Kanon, but since I'm Kanon, I can be a zombie afterwards" and things like that.
However, I bet in reality there's an actual Kanon that's going to fuck up someone's calculations.

>>6089367
That seems silly but okay.

>>6088968

Damn it. Ep3 FT does not work in reality at all, but I suppose as just a basic puzzle...

Of course, that doesn't mean that Shkanon is the culprit of the FT, either. It's more likely that someone killed everyone after they were discovered.

>>6089427
WHEN IT COMES TO ZERO THE BANK TAKES ALL
I AM THE ZERO ON YOUR ROULETTE

...

You know what? This rant of him points at an entirely different direction after each single episode. Initially it points to him being the actuall killer, later to ShKanon and now it makes it seem like he really exists.

Then again, why would Yasu write it that way?

>>6089476
Kanon: I MUST KILL THE WITCH
Shannon: No Kanon, you are the witch.
And then Beatrice was a Zombie.

>>6089459
Pretty sure Shkanontrice is supposed to be the culprit in the first four episodes. It's just that the episodes aren't "real." The idea is that Shannon's body got up and walked to the chapel because it had all the time in the world while the adults were busy following the ring. Yasu placed Shannon's crime scene on the first floor, the only one on the first floor, to make sure it was broken into first. Then the one she wanted to be discovered last she didn't even have in the mansion. Will's solution even implies that Kyrie, Hideyoshi and Rudolf really all died in the hall so Yasu would be the killer of Nanjo. But strangely Claire does not mention Natsuhi's death in episode 1 or Nanjo's in episode 3 as something to be solved, so Will makes no comment on it.

>>6089476
What he said was there was a third side who could win besides "you" (Beatrice) and "the master" (Yasu). That being the zero on the roulette, Kanon. Of course he just loses anyway, good job Kanon.

>>6089476
It points to nothing, because this rant itself was written by Beatrice in her fiction, not by real person Kanon.
Or, for example, if her "roulette" in reality is to find the true love among the three, that could mean her realizing that Kanon isn't the best outcome or something like that.

>>6089476
Yasu doesn't actually realize Kanon is not just her delusion, but an actual person. That's why she says he's cold in public but affectionate in private. She thinks it's always her imaginary Kanon, while actually the real Kanon is the one she sees in public and delusional Kanon the one she sees in private.
She writes up the bottle letters thinking she'll play the entire Kanon part as well, and guess why the plan fucks up when the family reunion actually happens? Hello there unforeseen piece.

>>6089494
The idea he is talking about, though, is that "he is the one who has to destroy the roulette itself in the end". In metaworld, people make bets and whoever wins is the who should spin the roulette next time. This roulette is endless because it will be spun until someone wins. He is saying that should he win, it's game over.

That is one of my interpretations.

He also says that in battle between Kinzo and Beatrice, (which are the two sides originally having the right to claim the whole family) inb4 Kanzo, he can still manage to win and stop it.

>>6089520
The thing is, it just seems like a silly thing to have Kanon as a person on the island after all, despite everything. What about nobody claiming Kanon's name except Kanon himself? Even though Yasu is clearly claiming Kanon's name and being called that in the red, like with the episode 6 closed room or episode 2 second twilight.

>>6089520
>guess why the plan fucks up when the family reunion actually happens?
Actually the plans of the real person Beatrice could be entirely different from the plans of her self-insert fictional character Beatrice, from message bottles.

>>6089536
It's not silly one bit, we are currently short one person.

>>6089536
Not to mention if Yasu had an imaginary Kanon but didn't know a real Kanon existed, her episodes shouldn't contain hints of anything of the sort. Saying the theory works is like saying it works because there's no evidence for it.

>>6089549
It works because Kanon's behavioral pattern is silly.

Moon-chan works because her behavioral pattern is silly.

Both work, but might not necessarily be the truth. Which is the single thing I can't forgive Ryukushi. I am really sure that he wrote it with the intention of multiple solutions being possible at the end of E4. You can't satisfy all of your readers that way and I am dissatisfied because my theory worked, so why did he do it anyway?

>>6089549

How else are we supposed to have a twist at this point?

>>6089544
Are you going to explain the contradiction about how nobody can claim Kanon's name except Kanon himself then? There can only be one Kanon being called Kanon, and that is Yasu's imaginary friend Kanon. So Kanon himself is just an imaginary friend, there can't be an actual Kanon.

>>6089563
Claiming Kanon's name means saying things like "I am Kanon" out loud, correct?

When did she do that ingame?

>>6089568
Maybe you shouldn't be expecting a twist.

>>6089567
The pony theory and the Shkanon theory both existed around the time of episode 4, and if you put them both together you've got a significant chunk of the answer. He tried to make it solvable, but at the same time he was up against so many people yet needed to keep the game going. The best advantage he had was that people who reached parts of the truth didn't really realize they did, and there would be people who would argue against their theory harshly, when it's actually close to the answer.

Besides, I don't think people who have read episode 7 are that dissatisfied. A real Kanon hasn't been foreshadowed.

>>6089578
That would be "Claiming to be Kanon" not "Claiming Kanon's name"
I hope you're not going to argue that Yasu's personality Kanon can be called Kanon in red even though nobody else can claim his name. It seems like a struggle against the facts to me.

>>6089598
But Lambda does it as well, right?

Or, uh, of course, if those are some english shenaningans that I don't get yet(Czechfag here), does "Nobody can claim Kanon's name other than himself" mean "Nobody can call someone by Kanon's name incorrectly"?

>>6089589
>Maybe you shouldn't be expecting a twist.

Predictability is bad. I want my goddamn last-minute twist.

>>6089563
Red truth explains fiction. If Shannon and Auau wrote Kanon as her part, there's only one Kanon in there. I'm talking about what really happened/will happen in episode 8, not what happened in the past episodes.

>>6089636
I am still expecting Beatrice to pop up from behind a tree and say "Hay, you got baited on this great train of clusterfuckish bullshit magnificiently, Batora. You are even wearing a fucking cape!
*cackle* *cackle* *cackle*
So Lambda, can I take this dude back? It's my turn for trolling Battler, I've been holding it back for four whole games!
*MIRAGECOORDINATOR*


I AM CALLING IT. I WON'T BE TROLLED NOT THIS TIME.

>>6089636
Battler tries to argue that someone could inherit Kanon's name. Beato answers
>The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself!
>A different person cannot claim his name!
So I think the idea is "you can't call someone else Kanon, only Kanon can be called Kanon"
There's also episode 6 red:
>It has already been said in red that all people can only use their own names. Therefore, the names Erika, Battler, and Kanon can only be used by those people.
I think this should properly establish "Kanon" as only one entity.

Then there's
>The one who rescued Battler was, without a doubt, Kanon.
I would argue that there would be a doubt if the Kanon doing the rescuing is not even the real Kanon who exists. But according to the setup of this room, and what we learned in episode 7, Shannon and Kanon being the same person would be the solution to that room, so the rescuer would be the imaginary Kanon.

It doesn't necessary mean "Nobody can call someone by Kanon's name incorrectly". Your interpretation could be right, but it seems twisted to me given what the argument was.