/jp/ - Otaku Culture

A witch did it.

>>5857417

WHICH ONE HAS THE PENIS?

YOU'LL NEVER KNOW

>>5857440

You have to admit, it would be the ultimate twist.

"But magic can't do anything humans can't do!" you say?

Well WHAT IF HUMANS COULD DO MAGIC?

Make it happen, Ryukishi

I got a question about this scene, it always bothered me. Dunno if it has been brought up before.

Why would Kanon fear that Natsuhi would view him as an enemy, if the rumors were that she was strict to only female servants but nice to male servants?

>>5857458
Because they're rumors, exactly that.

Inb4 "OMG SHKANON(TRICE) PROOF, LOOK AT IT"

>>5857458
1) Because she didn't like people thinking that she's soft on servants of any gender and so was harsher on Kanon.

2) Because Kanon is a girl.

>>5857458
Because Kanon is a woman.
Even if Shkanon isn't true, there's more than enough hints that he's actually a woman.

>>5857476

Explain further please? I don't really see why he had to make this correlation with that rumor and himself.

>>5857458

OH GOD

Something that's been bothering me for a while now:

Why does a witch deny the existence of magical beings? Like, you know, witches? How can she do this without putting herself at risk?

And more importantly, why is an angelic INQUISITOR OF HERESY, whose job it is to deny witches, demons, etc, subordinate to a SENATE OF WITCHES?

I don't understand. Please help me, /jp/. This makes no sense at all.

>>5857458
[EP4 red]
The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself!
A different person cannot claim his name!
[/red]

>Himself

>>5857527
Japanese does not use gender-specific pronouns like that. They exist, but they're not used very often and not in that particular sentence.
Nice try, though.

>>5857516
It's magic, I ain't gotta explain shit.

>>5857527
Japan and their gender-neutral pronouns...w

>>5857527

A better translation would be "The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the original person!"

Give it a fucking rest, you've all been making this exact same thread for far more than a year now.

>>5857482
>>5857483

Also expanding my question from the whole Kanon flashback scene.

When was Kanon first employed? Was it within the 6 years since Battler was gone? I haven't played episode 1 in a while. But in the flash back, it seems that he's been on long friendly terms with Krauss and Kinzo.

Specifically Kinzo, which caught my interest. He mentioned that he would help him with the strange childish pranks. I would assume it would be ones like unlocking that same window in the hallway every night, which, of course, could be Kinzo trying to preserve the essence of the Witch wondering around. These pranks also predate the 6 years since Battler's last visit.

>>5857527
This part is easy to get around.

Shkannon = one person, two personalities. When one personality "takes over," they become that very person. If the Shannon personality is currently dominate, then of course she wouldn't be able to assume his name, and vice versa.

>>5857543
Threads over everyone.

Lets go join the rest of /jp/ and talk about which Touhou's armpit we want to lick.

>>5857533
If you listen to the HURR UMINEKO IS RPG idiots, magic IS real and so, yes, you do have to explain shit.

>>5857516

Making this up as I go but...
The witches (voyagers) are beings that seek entertainment.
Some fragments are designed as mystery stories for that purpose.
In order to ensure that such mysteries are entertaining, rules must be enforced (as was hammered into the readers mind in Ep5)
Inquisitors make sure these aren't violated.

Or to put it another way Witches (bored godlike kakera surfers) aren't the same things as witches (beings within a mystery story attempting to convince the observer that the mystery isn't solvable)

>>5857544

Officially, Kanon first appeared three years ago, as he's been employed only slightly longer than Gohda, who arrived shortly before Kinzo's death.

Of course, he could have been around a lot longer than that...

>>5857516
Dlanor is there for deny the core of the game which is Beatrice.She can't do shit against for example Lambdadelta because she didn't created all the mysteries of Rokkenjima.

When was the epitaph put up? I think, I think, I know what Battler's sin is.

>>5857561
After reading this, I sort of wish Ryu07 would write a fantasy story next, preferably about the politics of heaven.
They seem INCREDIBLY complex.

>>5857574
Sometime in 1984.

>>5857593

I've said for a long time that what I want for the next When They Cry is something like "Ryu no Naku Koro ni" (When Dragons Cry, as a name pun).

Make it completely in a fantasy land where magic is commonplace but governed by rules (so you can still solve a mystery).

>>5857568

Ah, I see. So he's been technically known Kinzo, Rokkenjima-wise, for only 1 year. Since year 1985 and 1986, Kinzo was already dead.

This is why I found it odd that he has friendly terms with Kinzo and Krauss, within his short employ time. Kinzo trusts Kanon enough to ask him to play pranks, and Krauss thinks that Kanon was always bullied by Kinzo.

But this may still play into the whole "orphanage" thing so lots of things can still be explained.

>>5857684
I've been wondering about that goddamn orphanage.
Does it even exist?

>>5857598

Are you sure? I seem to remember the Epitaph being put up long before the portrait. The adults seem to have been working on it for a long time.

>>5857458
It's a fact stated on Kanon's character page on the official site that Natsuhi hates Kanon and often bullies him because she is scared that Jessica and him might hook up.

>>5857723
The epitaph and the portrait were put up at the same time.

>>5857723
The epitaph and the portrait both went up two years ago. You might be getting confused from Eva's flashbacks, which start to bleed into each other chronologically.

>>5857728
Bit too late for that.

>>5857692

From what I remember, Kinzo started for his own special things. In magic world, it was for creating Furniture. It is where Shanon and Kanon came from. Also, wasn't the 'Man from 19 years ago' adopted from there. More question, how come servants from there were allowed the One Wing Eagle?

>>5857747
I'm more curious about how Kanon could have a western name like Joshua.

I smell Kinzo-fuckery afoot!

>>5857757
Wasn't the reading confirmed in hiragana as Yoshiya in EP6? Or am I remembering wrong?

>>5857728

I can understand that, but that rumor still bugs me, cause he refers to the rumor to be a reason why she may dislike him.

If it's stated that she doesn't want him to hook up with Jessica, why isn't she strict to all male servants and soft on female servants. With that rumor, seems to tie with 'Jessica is a lesbian' theory. Natsuhi is strict on female servants, because she's afraid of them hooking up?

captcha: manfully many
somewhat appropriate

>>5857757
It's actually Yoshiya but there a few Japs with that name that like to stretch the reading to Joshua.
I personally believe that after the child from 19 years ago died and Battler left Kinzo searched for a substitute for an heir ot take the childs place. Kanon got choosen. Thats why Kinzo is so nice to him

>>5857757

I read your post as

>I smell kinzo foot fucking!

And it brought me to a screeching halt at this thread. I was all like, oh my God dude he did NOT just say that

>>5857747
"They're all Kinzo's children" is probably the best theory about the orphanage I've heard.

>>5857769
It was Yoshida, I think. However, we can't rule out name trickery.

Remember Battler's kanji can be pronounced completely differently, as mentioned in episode 1. More hints with Aurora's piece with her pen name shenanigans

>>5857774
Kanon is the only male servant her age. Natsuhi doesn't believe that her daughter would hook up with someone older. Alsoit was said that Kanon didn't seemed very subtitle about his feelings. Something about staring at her.

>>5857801

I see, makes sense. This series has way too many details to keep track off in a span of this many games.

>>5857796
No, that person was right. It's Yoshiya. On a side note, the first kanji is the same as the first kanji in "Kanon", just like with Shannon/Sayo.

>>5857801
>Something about staring at her.

Jesus Christ, is every young male in this series a complete stalker or what?

>>5857593
THIS THIS THIS THIS

Too bad it will never happen. Instead, we will get a story about kids playing card games at a beach resort.

>>5857593
There was a TIP about Cornelia in heaven that some anon started to translate, but I don't think they finished it.

>>5857729
>>5857734

Oh yeah, that's where I remembered that. Thanks.

>>5857869

We don't even know if Dlanor and the others are product of Beato and Maria fantasies too

>>5857827
He says she dazzles him....anymore questions?

>>5857895
But Wright is certainly the product of my fantasies.

>>5857458

He also said he hated Genji for many things...

>>5857895

I'd say they are. The inconsistent world building and confusing magical world bullshit just screams imaginative 9 year old to me.

what debt

>>5857993
His debt to Beatrice in EP3.

>>5857969

But it actually seems very clear to me.
Also, Bern is a member of Dlanor senate, so..

So, what happens to Dlanor now when her master is sent to Oblivion?

>>5858019

Goes back to heaven, help Dine or become Bern's servant

>>5858004
No, Bern and Lambda are members of the Witch's Senate, which seems to have some power in Heaven.
>>5858019
But yes, this. It's probably all just Maria's bullshit.
Dlanor serves not Bern, but the Great Court, which in turn serves God. Furthermore, her existence is tied to the Knox Rules themselves, so I don't think she can exactly be denied.
>>5857969

I find it sort of funny that Dlanor and co. supposedly work in heaven, yet their workplace is no different from that of white-collar workers on earth. Though I'm assuming it's more like a government office than a normal commercial one.

>It's probably all just Maria's bullshit.


But Bern...

Also, why would Maria crate a fantasy world that hurt her and Beato.

>>5858004

I don't know man.

Heaven being a place where Mystery is SERIOUS BUSINESS seems odd to say the least. There's a problem if we're going to go with "Everything is Maria/Beato's fantasy world" theory. Maria doesn't know much about mystery, so this leaves RL "Beato". Maybe she's close to Nanjo?

>>5858072
BEATRICE IS NANJO'S GRANDDAUGHTER, WHO KILLED NANJO AND TOOK HIS PLACE ON ROKKENJIMA

>>5858056

Heaven as bureaucracy is something found in east asian teachings.

>>5858059

Both of their traumas leaking into it? Ange did mention that Maria took a dark turn.

I hope the meta world doesn't turn out to be all bullshit from Maria and Beato, i'd like R07 to built a damn Universe

>>5858092
> Heaven as bureaucracy
"All right, we've completed the documentation for your transfer to the next level of heaven, but we'll need you to fill out all 100 of these twenty-page long forms, in triplicate."

>>5858072
Lambda did tell us that the true Beatrice loved the shit out of mystery novels.

Random quick question from game 5. Why didn't Lambda let them defend the window during Kinzo's closed room debacle?

>>5858112

People who are likely to be mystery fans:

Erika
Nanjo
Battler
Kinzo?(He seems the type, plus it gives him and Nanjo another piece of common ground. Maybe they had a witch's game with each other before? Fantasy vs Mystery.)

Look, I'm not denying shkanontrice after the hellish ordeal that was R07 beating me to death with it, but can someone explain away why no one in the entire family notices or remarks on Shkanon?

>captcha: unbar Ibid.,

>>5858120

In order for Battler to white knight Beato.

This lets player Battler (and us) to see what he really feels.

GM's are obligated to show truth/important details.

Plus it was fucking hilarious.

>>5858135

Natsuhi is insane, Kraus doesn't give a fuck and the other servants serve who found the gold (Shannon)

EP6 question

Was the love trial part of the fantasy side story Battler was weaving? Was Beato and him joining part of the plan?

>>5858092
>Ange did mention that Maria took a dark turn.
That's an understatement. It was Sakutaro's death that turned Maria into a cackling lunatic, after all.

>>5858151
What about the other adults and the rest of the kids? She's such a godlike tranny that no one ever comes close to thinking they are the same person? Why does Natsushi / Krauss have separate shifts for shannon / kannon if they are the same person? They think it's "just a phase" to grow out of? With Kinzo dead, I'd be quick to fire the insane people working in the household near my daughter if I were them.

>>5858190
> Was the love trial part of the fantasy side story Battler was weaving?
Fairly obviously a yes.

> Was Beato and him joining part of the plan?
Yes. If I'm not mistaken, the whole point of Zepar and Furfur was Battler trying to get Beato to remember. "Without love, the truth cannot be seen", after all.

>tranny

I don't think that's the right term

>>5858221
transvestite: a person and especially a male who adopts the dress and often the behavior typical of the opposite sex especially for purposes of emotional or sexual gratification

-Merriam-Webster motherfucker

>>5858218

Thanks.

Another question. Why were the Tohya scenes necessary when The Reading could be done in the Meta World with AuAu? If it's done to signify "what could have happened" if Ange went to see her, what would be the point? All it shows us is that Ange's familiar with her works, and that her works include Meta World scenes. Wouldn't Meta World Ange freak the fact out in the 4th game because of that fact?

Fucking metafiction breaks my head.

what was the deal with spider webs hurting sis beato, harmless to moetrice
while sacred mirror affects moetrice

>>5858253
Hachijou's very existence allows us to completely deny the Meta-World, to completely deny magic.
It's nice, because magic doesn't exist.
>>5858258
I have no idea, it's some kind of metaphor although I have no idea what for.

>>5858258
Old sis beato is a witch, in that she doesn't exist really. Therefore "magical" items can harm her.

moe moe beato isn't harmed by the "magic" of the mirror, just the reflection that she is someone else (I would imagine)

>>5858258
I'd say the implication is that "Beatrice" doesn't actually look much like the girl who created her, so the mirror is disturbing to her.

>>5858287
But like Erika said, spiderwebs should not harm a witch

>>5858305
The legend of Beatrice got blended in with the legends of the demons of the island, whom spiderwebs could harm.

>Hachijou's very existence allows us to completely deny the Meta-World, to completely deny magic.

Oh really

>>5858309
but it doesn't hurt moetrice

>>5858218
Impossible to tell whether Battlers plan included the Zepar/Furfur thing, the logic error, or both. Beato figured everything out right as both issues came to a head.

I'm more inclined to give it to the logic error. Kanon, Shannon, George, Jessica, Zepar, Furfur, even MetaBattler, no one really seemed to care that Beato was participating in that little contest. It's as if they were only there to bring the number of deaths up to six.

Her suddenly being a part of the game again when souls needed to be eaten was weird, but I'm willing to chalk it up to R07 feeling the need to attach every personal revelation to an existential near death experience.

>>5858305
The entire point of the series is that if everyone believes something, it can become magic.

Beatrice doesn't exist. She is a legend / myth. If some weakness becomes attached to that legend, and people begin to believe that it is true. Then it is, since lol magic. Remember, she doesn't exist in the first place.

It's like creating a badass main character. then in the second book mentioning he's weak to fish, where it doesn't contradict anything previously known about him. You accept it as true and it is.

>>5858325
Because Moetrice wasn't created with the legends of Rokkenjima in mind. She was created to love Battler.

>>5858325
Because there are two components to Beatrice, represented by the two sisters. The legend of the witch which is very old, and the girl who loves Battler.

Moetrice is the girl who loves Battler. There's no reason a spiderweb should harm her.

>>5858337
so...why does the mirror affect her

>>5858323
Yes, really. Don't forget that Ange is delusional, and that this is a scene in Hachijou's own story.

>>5858346
It's a clue. Why would a Beatrice created to love Battler be hurt by a magic mirror, if she's immune to other elements of the witch legend?

Think about it.

>>5858347

"Is the meta world a reflection of our world, or is our world a reflection of meta world?"

Can you prove witch one is true?

>>5858346
The same reason Beatrice had Maria close her eyes when she performed "magic". If you see the trick, the spell is broken.

>>5858346

see:
>>5858287
>>5858297

>>5858347
No, her stories are only within the boundaries of 1986 Rokkenjima

>>5858359
Of course I can. The mere fact that I am aware of being real proves that I am real. In the same way, because magic is physically impossible, I can prove that it doesn't exist.

The Devil's Proof is nothing but sophistry.

>>5858374

Where was this ever said?

>>5858381
> The mere fact that I am aware of being real proves that I am real
But it doesn't. You could simply be a figment of someone's imagination made to think that it is real. How do you know you aren't merely a character in someone else's dream?

>>5858381
>Magic
>Meta-world

>>5858347

Wait. What.

The EP6 that Tohya is writing, is the EP6 we are reading?

I call bullshit, since that means EP4 with Ange's Journey truly didn't happen as well. And that means all versions of Ange we've been seeing are fiction.

>>5858394
> And that means all versions of Ange we've been seeing are fiction.
You're catching on. After all, Hachijou supposedly wrote Episodes 3 through 6. Ange being in Episodes 3, 4, and 6 is the result of Hachijou writing her in.

That is, if you go with the full-on fiction theory.

Of course, it's also possible that both are true at the same time and there's yet another layer of (un)reality that has not yet been revealed.

>>5858411
>there's yet another layer of (un)reality that has not yet been revealed.

Ryukishi sitting at his desk?

Post your possible culprit lists.

-Kyrie and Rudolf (just seem suspicious)
-Eva (obviously partial culprit in Ep3)
-Rosa (accomplice in Ep2)

Other than that I'm stumped

>>5858431
>Eva (obviously partial culprit in Ep3)
No.

>>5858389
Because I'm not. Human beings are thinking beings because they can think, right?
Questioning reality is just a waste of time. Even if I were a dream, there is nothing I could do about this fact.

>>5858411
My interpretation is that Hachijou wrote in the fantasy elements, but Ange's Journey is, for the most part, real.

>>5858464

>Human beings are thinking beings because they can think, right

Excuse me? Who said they were "thinking beings"

>>5858441

Uh... Yes actually. She shot Battler.

>>5858476
Self-defense. Eva doesn't belong on a "culprit" list.

>>5857458
Because she wanted to disprove the rumors so she was harsher with men?

>>5858471
I did. I just thought that. Therefore, I am a thinking being.
The mere fact that we are having this conversation right now proves we are thinking beings. It's just something that is true.
There is no point in arguing about it.

>>5858464

I think I'll go with this too. I believe 1998 was shown to us so we can see the consequences of what happened in the "real" Rokkenjima. It's an important clue. Of course, this means Eva has to survive every single time, even in EP1, the closest we probably have to the "real" incident.

Having Ange's 1998 be a result of one of the various infinite catbox scenarios and not connected at all to what really happened and showing it to us would serve no purpose.

Except to troll us. Fuck.

>>5858507

Nothing makes sense anymore

>>5858476
And caused his heart to plop out on the floor, right?

Lemme ask you something: Just how much of the scene with Eva shooting Battler was narrated from Battler's point of view? No, seriously, I don't remember which bits were 1st-person and which bits were 3rd-person.

I forget, did episode 5 tell us what happened to Kinzo's ring? I remember in episode 1 he "gives it back to Beatrice", but isn't it missing in every other game?

I know the game master is supposed to have it in the Meta-world, and the wedding scenes in episode 6 reinforced that fact. If someone found the gold, then I would assume they get the ring, too. I only bring that up because there was that whole bit about exchanging rings for married couples. The only real-world scene with an engagement is between George and Shannon. I kinda figured Shannon found the gold/ring and exchanged/planned on giving it to George.

>>5858534
Actually, I'd say that no game actually bears any more resemblance to "the real incident" than any other.
Ep3 has Eva surviving because it's Hachijou's first forgery, and she wanted to get people's attention by creating something close to the truth.

>I know the game master is supposed to have it in the Meta-world, and the wedding scenes in episode 6 reinforced that fact. If someone found the gold, then I would assume they get the ring, too. I only bring that up because there was that whole bit about exchanging rings for married couples. The only real-world scene with an engagement is between George and Shannon. I kinda figured Shannon found the gold/ring and exchanged/planned on giving it to George.

Wasn't give to Battler in ep V?

>>5858585

Third person, but R07 being here was a proof of Eva guilty.

However ep III is really convulsed, we don't know how much Evatrice did and if Eva=Evatrice, or she's really her second personality. And also, Pieces can't act against their nature

>>5858653
> Third person
Then you can't trust it any more than you can trust the scene at the end of Episode 2 with Battler in Kinzo's study.

>>5858665

Battler was drunk

>>5858665
Ryukishi confirmed that Eva shot Battler in an interview.

>>5858668
Alcohol does not make you hallucinate and he couldn't have mistaken anything for Kinzo anyway.

>>5858431
Kyrie I can see. Rudolf seems more of a harmless bastard than anything.

Eva? The entire point of EP 3 was to deny her as the culprit, not point her out as one. She was Umineko's Takano, so Ryukishi made an entire arc devoted to showing her as innocent (I can't imagine it was just coincidence that they both shared the same VA in the anime)

Rosa dies too early to be of any use.

>>5858668
Alcohol doesn't make you hallucinate. And note well that the times when Kinzo is shown talking are times when the narration is third-person. Kinzo never talks in that scene when Battler is narrating.

Funnily enough, though, the parts that Battler does narrate seem to indicate someone else besides Battler, Kinzo, and Genji being present in Kinzo's study at that time...

>>5858670
Yeah she did that, but that was probably it. By that time she was clearly insane from all the mayhem. Does that mean she's the main culprit? No.

>>5858670
But the circumstances surrounding the shooting may have been completely different from the way they were portrayed to us. Instead of Eva going all Takano-crazy as she was portrayed to be, she was probably freaking out and fucking scared.

>>5858431
George is obviously evil after Ep6.
Doesn't make him a culprit, but...

>Funnily enough, though, the parts that Battler does narrate seem to indicate someone else besides Battler, Kinzo, and Genji being present in Kinzo's study at that time...

>>5858628

But that brings us to the question of where Meta/Player Battler came from. He looks to be from EP1 right? But if EP1 is another fiction, then he's just a piece of fiction elevated. He's not anymore real than Beato, but his victory should affect the/a "real" Rokkenjima, saving people. How can a piece of fiction affect the "real" world?

And if Player Battler is Battler from the real incident, his soul ascended to purgatory or whatever, what happened to his memories pf the real deal? Either he had his memories wiped to keep things fair, or he was the first victim.

I like the latter better, makes a bit of sense that the the first one to die be the one to try to deny the deaths of everyone because he didn't witness it....

....wait. Shit.

Maybe that's Battler's final reward. Since he didn't witness anyone else's death, he might be able to force the real world into a world where he's the only casualty. It's the fucking catbox braun tube devil's proof again.

>George is obviously evil after Ep6.

Fatty wants to find happiness in RL.

No away he's going to team up with a bomb

>>5858385
It doesn't say it includes present day events too...I would like to think...
the bottled letters are there to explain the events of what happened in 1986 Rokkenjima, the context from first twilight to the last. Thinking about how she wrote beyond this makes things extremely confusing. Why would she talk about present events anyways?

especially writing about herself forging all the previous bottle letters, writing how Hachijo Toya is actually a woman who hates her readers, making Ange read her story "Dawn of the Golden Witch", which is about how she asked Ange to read "Dawn of the Golden Witch" that she wrote

>>5858703
That might be what Ryukishi means by the story not having a happy ending.
...But then, who is Amakusa?

>>5858703
>But that brings us to the question of where Meta/Player Battler came from. He looks to be from EP1 right? But if EP1 is another fiction, then he's just a piece of fiction elevated.

Who said it can't be both a Kakera and a fiction written by human Featherine? They don't deny each others.

>That might be what Ryukishi means by the story not having a happy ending.
>...But then, who is Amakusa?

Featherine confirmed miracles for Ange

>>5858713

Unconnected badass, who's a red herring.

But an answer like that is lame. He's probably part of someone's backstory. Which backstory though?

>>5858725
While I'm sure Featherine is being quite sincere there, I'd be a bit wary of trusting the miracles of someone who Bernkastel considers to be even more of a monster than herself.

>>5858727
Everything about him would suggest that he's the other Battler, but I think you got it right the first time - he's a red herring who isn't related to why the murders take place in 1986.

>>5858727
Whoever wrote 07151129.
The two halves of each it add up to "13", Amakusa's first name.

>>5858411
Ange's Journey has cameo elements from Higurashi because it was written by Lambda.

>>5858716

But it's not the Kakera where Tohya exists in. That Kakera is the "real" Rokkenjima the way I see it. EP1 Battler seems unrelated to that.

Well, since EP1 is in the message bottle perhaps it's the real Rokkenjima after all. But that brings us to the problem of Eva again.

>>5858727
> Juuza
> 十三
> 13
And guess how many people are officially in line for succession to the position of head of the Ushiromiya family? Here's a hint: it's one greater than 11.

>>5858746
Ep2 is also a message bottle.
Neither Ep1 nor Ep2 is the real incident. If anything's going to be the real incident, it will probably be Ep8.

>>5858748
>Whoever wrote 07151129.

Has anyone ever tried to answer this? It should be significant that the only episode in that appears on the island is 3.

>>5858760
>Ep2 is also a message bottle.

This too - I had totally forgotten about it, but Ange confirms in 4 that the person who wrote the message bottles also wrote stuff in Maria's diary, right? Is Shannon the one writing them?

I just thought of something. How many of you here have played the game Myst?

Hachijou Touya is a D'ni.

>>5858762
Only people it can be are George and whoever killed Nanjo.
It's also mentioned in George's death TIPS.

>>5858772
>the person who wrote the message bottles also wrote stuff in Maria's diary
also the bank code letters

>>5858772
Assuming Shannon is Beatrice, yes, she wrote the message bottles, as well as the vault letters

>>5858748
except there's no way he was on the island during the murders.

>>5858748
Decided to check the character chart on the anime's website to confirm and stumbled across the normal DVD cover for Note 6... dem Battler and Beato dolls.

Top three culprit candidates

George
Nanjo
Kyrie

>>5858790
Unless he is actually a she, and is Kanon.

>>5858760

Then Player Battler is completely unrelated to the real Battler, who's probably dead.

Stop discussing this shit already. It's getting old.

>>5858792
Battler's ANGRY EYES in that are hilarious.
>>5858798
Yup. Too bad no one thought to inform him of this, right?
>>5858790
Unless he's Beatrice. (Or the real Battler.)

>>5858797
Sorry, but...

Episode 6 confirmed that Kanon is not Battler.
Episode 4 confirmed that names are not exclusive.

>>5858803
hide the thread

On a random note, he's Ronove without his mustache.
Sexy~.

On a random note, here's Ronove without his mustache.
Sexy~.

>>5858762
If you want to talk meaning, I think Battler's idea of it being a date isn't bad. 0715 is his birthday. If we consider 1129 to be another date, we can narrow it down assuming no one was unnecessarily lying in the scene:

It wasn't Kinzo's or Nanjo's, as confirmed by Nanjo.
It wasn't Eva's, George's, Hideyoshi's, Rosa's, or Maria's, as confirmed by Eva.
It wasn't Jessica's, Krauss's, Natsuhi's, Kanon's, Shannon's, Genji's, Kumasawa's or Gohda's, as confirmed by Jessica.

In short, we can remove everyone except Battler's family line from the equation. This leaves Rudolf, Kyrie, and Ange. I think Battler would remember Rudolf's birthday, but Kyrie was someone who he saw as 'the other woman' whom his father had an affair with. I don't know if he'd be close enough to her to have known her birthday.

The meaning behind it could be a hint towards Battler being Kyrie's son. I also believe she is the one who wrote it there, shortly after killing George and before she killed Nanjo. But this is just a guess based on a non-certain theory.

... Coincidentally, 0+7+1+5 = 13. 1+1+2+9 = 13. Juuza = 13.

Draw your own conclusions.

In Episode 3, why do you think George really went to the mansion?

>>5858856
November 29th is the day when doctors first managed to correct blue baby syndrome. A newborn with that kind of complication sometimes looks like a stillbirth.
Futhermore, if the baby survives into adulthood, one of the recurring symptoms... is asthma.

>>5858868
Natsuhi's diaries. He's after them in Ep2 as well.

>>5858879

That sounds insane and ridiculously obscure.

But I can dig it.

>>5858879
1944 even, well before Umineko's events. My, my, that's very interesting. Even if it turned out to be a coincidence, that'd be incredible.

>>5858901
Insane and ridiculously obscure? Time for the Hachijou Touya = Ushiromiya Asumu theory!

http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp/thread/4417315#p4417546

>>5858809

In the end, Player Battler was unable to save anyone.

But at least he has his waifu.

>>5858942
Jeeeesus Christ.
Hachijou seems a bit young to be a woman in her fifties, though.

>>5858954
>imaginary waifu

...I suppose that's kind of redundant.

>>5858980

That proves nothing. Umineko has the hottest older women in fiction.

It's maaaagic.

>>5859040
Come to think of it, she hardly looks any younger than Eva.
...I guess it's possible, but... then, how did Asumu 'die'?

>>5858904
>>5858879
My google-fu is weak. Any articles with claims that blue baby syndrome could lead to asthma? I managed to find none.

>>5859078

Not that anon,
but wiki says it leads to respiratory distress syndrome. Is that the same or similar to asthma?

>>5859078
One of the conditions listed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_baby_syndrome

I don't remember the exact one. Sorry.

Basically, she had figured out the epitaph after Eva did and was going to find the gold when a firefight erupted, right?

>>5858856
>>/rs/Kyrie_did_not_leave_anything_written_down!

>>5859128
that was in regards to writing something down about going to the mansion.

>>5859118
I think she wanted to blackmail Hideyoshi or something, somehow involving that cigarette butt.

Was Knox in full effect for EP6?

All of Knox?

Two things here that are interesting:

One, that story about the servant falling down the stairs keeps showing up, again and again. Can't be unimportant.

Two, why is she laughing like Battler?

>>5859153
Yes, but there wasn't really a detective, so...

>>5859159

Shannon injured the servant so that they would need to hire a new one (Kanon).

WHAT THE FUCK. NONE OF THIS MAKES SENSE!

>>5859163

But doesn't Knox need a detective's proclamation? Dlanor can't use it after all.

An episode without Knox, or even Knox neutered slightly would be...interesting to say the least.

>>5859173
But the servant was injured just after the portrait went up... Kanon's been around longer than that, hasn't he?

>>5859183

I checked the wiki, other than 7 and 3...nothing.

Motherfucking fantastic.

Do i Have this right?

Kinzo died 2 years before the current conference.
Kanon came to work 3 years before the current conference
Gohda came to work 2 years before the conference.
Shannon has been working there the last 11 years or so.
Shannon is 16. Kanon is 14?
Battler and Jessica are both 18.
George is 23.
Beatrice existed as a human and died in 1967. 19 Years before the conference.
Natsuhi had an orphan baby 19 years ago.
The true ruler of the island is 19 years old.

got my numbers right?

Is this all correct?

>>5859234

Needs Epitaph and portrait placement years.

>>5859234
Kanon is around the same age as Shannon, I thought.

>>5859234

>George is 23.

He's fucking 22 are all of you blind?

>>5859234
Kinzo died about a year and a half ago, and Shannon has been working there for ten years. Kanon is 16.
Otherwise, looks good.
>>5859264
Fuck you, he's 23.

>>5859244
>>5859244

Epitaph and Portrait - 2 years before, right before kinzo died ?

when did the servant get injured?

>>5859290

According to Ep6 about the same time.

Man, I wish the epitaph could have been put up about 6 years ago. That would solve Battler's sin neatly.

>>5859234
>Shannon has been working there the last 11 years or so.
10 years
>Shannon is 16. Kanon is 14?
Both are 16.

otherwise everything else looks fine.

If Kinzo died 1.5 years ago why the hell his corpse is still in a such good state?
But then again, refrigerators.

>>5859305
Well we don't know how good in shape it is. We never hear about where they even put it.

>>5859297
...Which would be?

>>5859305
Dunked in formaldehyde and left in the bathtub.
He is still stinking up the house, right?

shit after reading eps 1-4 twice i dont even remember when george's age was mentioned, why the uncertainty whether hes 22-23?

>>5859333

There is no uncertainty. Battler clearly states "He's turning 23 THIS YEAR"

Ergo, it hasn't happened yet. English, dear Watson.

>>5859305

i remember some huge refrigerated mentioned in 5 but just imagine taking food out from that without noticing?

another thing in 5 was when they searched the whole damn mansion and kinzo's corpse was never found at all

>>5859348
I wonder what the original Japanese is like.

>>5859349
Natsuhi probably had it moved to the chapel or something.

A question about the timeline. When did Shannon smash the mirror in the shrine? And what was the general purpose of doing it anyway?

>>5859318

Asumu Ushiromiya died 6 years ago. We did not not know when. What if she died before that year's conference? Assume she did.

Now, the conference continues. What if, Rudolf decides that is the time to announce his moving of Kyrie to the register. It's a perfect opportunity. Now, assume that the Ushiromiyas accept her warmly, say during dinner or thereabouts. Everyone gathered there. Battler saw all this, and got fucking pissed.

Now, Battler stopped coming to the family conference since 6 years ago. This is mentioned specifically several times. He didn't cut contact with his family. He just stopped coming. Why? Eventually he recovered enough to hang out with Kyrie and Ange right? They went to amusement parks and birthday parties. But he still refused to come to the conference? Maybe because it's a site of a traumatic incident for him?

Lets make some assumptions again. Battler liked and read mystery novels back then, probably tried to solve the epitaph. It's a good puzzle.

Pissed Battler runs away from the family, and finds himself near his friend the one who would be "Beato". Cybaby Battler is crying. Beato asked what's wrong. Battler spilled the beans, and being pissed at his family, spat out that he wants to kill them all. Battler's murder list was nearly the first thing stated in this tale. Battler then used the Epitaph as inspiration for his kill. 6 people die first. Then 2. Then the gouging. Beato just listens.

Battler leaves and tries to heal his heart. He forgets. Battler's forgotten a lot about those times, remember the beach scenes? Of course he wants to forget. It was a painful time.

>>5859437
Assumption. Beato is either an accomplice or the killer, except she plans the method and pattern of death.

Now, Beato caught up in this serial murder business, wants to stop, wants to be caught. She uses Battler's methods and kills according to the epitaph. Hoping for a miracle that Battler will remember and catch her. The clues she leaves are the closed room murders Battler loves, and the strict following of the epitaph. After all, these are all inspirations from Battler. He should pick it up!

Remember Battler finding the truth? Scolding Beato by being so indirect, so tsundora? Why can't she just say it straight up? Yeah.

That's his sin. Thanks to his sin. People die. Due to his sin, a great many humans on this island die.

It's a nice sounding theory. But since the epitaph wasn't there 6 years ago....The part about him hating the conference might still be valid though.

>>5859443
What if Battler was the inspiration for the epitaph?

Just noticed, it was mentioned that closed rooms are Gaap's favorite.

Just more ammo for Gaap=Nanjo

>>5859457

The epitaph is Kinzo's. How can a 12 year old influence it? Although that could be his sin too, he created the epitaph indirectly, and indirectly made a murder plan.

>>5859405
I think the anime they said she smashed it in 1985.

Just finished EP6.

WHAT THE FUCK.

[color=red]
Regardless of Shkannon being true or not, in the end tons of asspained pro-/anti-Shkannonfags will join the opposite camp writing 'HAHA, TOLD YOU, RETARDS' in every umineko thread in an attempt to heal their hurt ego.
[/color]

>>5859933

Shkanon was barely discussed here, but if you want to start, go ahead.

>>5859933
No matter what, the answer can only be fucking retarded at this stage.
People can defend Umineko now because ZOMG IT DIDN'T FINISH YET but who the fuck could defend it after that?

I hope for your own good you guys will move on from this shit after the answer will be revealed, I don't see anything redeeming about this shit except for the retarded thinking game that provide so much fuel for the stupid theories threads.

>>5859957

Yet you read it till the end?

What was /jp/'s general solution to the final riddle of EP6 episode? I missed all the debates. And I'm usually wrong about everything when it comes to mysteries but still.

A bunch of red text

At the time the next room over was sealed, Hideyoshi, George, Kumasawa, Shannon, and Nanjo were in it. And, the number of people in the next room over was five. No one existed there except for those to whom those five names referred! All people can only use their own names!!
The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself!
A different person cannot claim his name!
[Request: 'Hideyoshi, George, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are in the next room over!'] Acknowledged.
[It has already been shown that Kinzo no longer exists, so please remove him from the word 'everyone'.] I acknowledge that everyone else is in the cousins' room.
Kanon does not exist in the guest room

Obvious retarded solution: Shannon jumping out of the window, switched to Kanon, saved Battler, switching to Shannon again, boom, 'Kanon does not exist in this room'. Of course, each personality = different person, so they don't claim each other's name, no no, they're genuine people withe genuine names, ok.

Less obvious (but still retarded) one: Kinzo = Title. Kanon = new Kinzo, he might didn't know it when he saved Battler, so he could still count as both 'Kanon' and 'Kinzo'. Once inside he dropped name Kanon for all eternity for whatever reason (finally acknowledging himself as Kinzo or Yosha, right?).

Whoever wins, we lose.
C: is freaks

>>5860109
>EP6 episode
>overall grammar
damn, I need some sleep

>>5860109
>>5860109

>>5859983

well, some people still can't see the difference between visual/sound novel and BOOKS. maybe they read them with book's standard and then they goes "meeeh what's with this shitty shit made from a shitty shitter?"
i like umineko and i like visual novel, they aren't nowhere near good books, but they are surely better than countless of mediocre/shitty books

>>5860109

Although its starting to look like ShKanon is the answer, I'm still holding out for some trick playing around with Shannon/Sayo Kanon/Yoshiya and their existance as furniture and people.

>>5860564
Umineko is mediocre compared to most VNs available translated though.

>>5860628

>Opinions

I have few things I thought about them because of episode 6:
- why Dlanor didn't sentence Erika to death? even though she didn't do the "detective proclain" it's OBVIOUS she IS the detective, and in the end she could say she is the detective, also, Battler was the detective and until episode 5 it was never said in red, but it was still obvious.
I think Dlanor was supposed to kill Erika.

-so what happened to big sister Beatrice, did she became one with Moetrice or she still exists?

>>5860648
>- why Dlanor didn't sentence Erika to death? even though she didn't do the "detective proclain" it's OBVIOUS she IS the detective, and in the end she could say she is the detective, also, Battler was the detective and until episode 5 it was never said in red, but it was still obvious.

She isn't.
Geez, ep VI wasn't even a detective story

>-so what happened to big sister Beatrice, did she became one with Moetrice or she still exists?

We don't know. It can be like you said, or simply moetrice awoke.

>>5860660
She said in red she's "THE detective"
if she said she's "A detective" it was ok.
Erika killed 5 people, and she could proclaim she's the detective in the end.
Dlanor should've killed her

>>5860276

My problem is that Erika never made it to the island, yet somehow managed to murder people. The red text seems to rule out anyone except a mystery person from affecting the outcomes.

As for the closed room, one elegant way to solve it would be to state that Erika removed Battler's corpse / live body before putting the tape up. If she can do retroactive bullshit shenanigans that aren't shown to us, then why not the other way around, as there is nothing shown to disprove that much.

>>5860906
>>5860906
Are you stupid or just retarded?
Why would Erika purposely make herself lose.
It is pretty obvious that Erika was on the Island in ep5 and ep6.
Featherinne wrote her into the story with her fake message bottle story.

>>5860906
Why can't people just understand simple shit that have been repeated times and times again?
Are you that fucking retarded?

>>5860916
And yet battler is the game master who can alter the truth of the game board so long as it hasn't been contradicted, which it hasn't. Piece Erika is still a piece.

>>5860955
The gamemaster doesn't control the pieces.
He just put a scenario and the pieces will act based on their reactions to this scenario.
And their reactions are based on their personalities which is pre-established and can't be changed.
Basically grow a brain.

>>5861004
Is that how battler planned out and crafted all of episode 6, by simply letting shit happen? No, he created a scenario where pieces would do what he needed them to do.

It would be well within Erika's personality to engage in mindfuckery, such as creating a missing body to get everyone thinking Battler was the culprit. Wow, so fucking hard.

>>5860276
About the everyone else room: Battler said in his own internal monologue that he wanted to repeat the statement with everyone's names, including Kanon. Erika just requested otherwise.

>>5861032
Beatrice can control her piece in episode 1 to 4, that's how she can create the different scenarios.
Same for Battler in episode 6, he directly controlled his piece.
Erika too by the way.

>>5861101
That was before did the I killed them mindfuck.
Battler was going to use a different trick, he was forced to use ShKanon by Erika.

>>5861101

All those scenes were 3rd person narration. Internal monologuing is never trustworthy then.

Yeah I don't want ShKanon to be true either but that's life.

Let's do a poll.
Who still doesn't believe in ShKanontrice?

>>5861101
He never WANTED to use this STUPID MEIDO DID TRICK in the first place.
He wasnt expecting LOL ERIKA to re-killed everyone.
You can say that Erika lost because of her being too smart and cautious. If Battler had replace everyone else with each of the remaining person names, he would be stucked in eternal closed room limbo.
Further proof that R07 has no consistency.

>>5861140
Me, anyway
I've been seeing a lot of "LOLKanon is reverse trap cuz Trap TWINS!" shit
Yoshiya can be read as = 4+6+4 = 16 and that of course directly means he is represented by Zepar.
Did no one of you think of an easier solution? Ryukishi had to pull a name out of his head, right? Kanon is 16. Pun on his age intended.

>>5861140
I don't want to believe in it, but after reading Ep6, well...
It could still go either way at this point. Either Shkanontrice is a big obvious troll used to hide some crucial truth, or it's true and Ryukishi is the worst writer ever.

>>5860906
>My problem is that Erika never made it to the island, yet somehow managed to murder people. The red text seems to rule out anyone except a mystery person from affecting the outcomes.

Different realities can exist in Rokkenjima closed box.
It's not fucking hard, every game is a different thing. Different people die in different wais in different times

>>5861140
I don't
Shkanon is one thing, Shkanontrice is another

>>5861642
>4+6+4 = 16
wat

>>5862097

Same. Shkannon is obvious. Shkannontrice is retarded. You're all trying to use one secret, which was literally spoon-fed to you in the third to last book, to solve every question in the game.
I'm afraid the truth is going to be a bit more complicated than "Crazy meido kills everyone because lol crazy"

>>5862119
ShKanon implies DID meaning that she is crazy you know.
ShKanontrice is simply the natural evolution of ShKanon.

Or you think that someone else has DID on the island, that someone also had a crush on Battler 6 years ago and created Beatrice there, sees the monologue, someone who wasn't Shannon.
Battler sure was a player 6 years ago.

Rokkenjima, more like the island of schizos.

>>5862133
>Battler sure was a player 6 years ago.
Actually, he was. A point is made of how much Asumu worried about all the women he attracted, stating that it must be Rudolf's blood.
Asumu died when Battler was 12.

>>5862114
.... I don't know...I must be sleepy or something....

>>5862133
>ShKanon implies DID
No it doesn't. Person pretends to be two people. Finds that they like their new life as much as the old life. Has a choice to make. Nothing about pretending to be two people necessarily equals insanity.

Even if she did have DID, with Kanon, it doesn't fit with Beatrice. DID doesn't work in a way where personalities are just created whenever, and a crush from age 10 doesn't require an alternate personality anyway. That's just ridiculous.

The people who accept Shkanon without Shkanontrice or Shannontrice/Kanontrice without Shkanontrice are the weirdest. At least the people who deny even Shkanon are coherent in their stubbornness. The other people probably came to the conclusion that two people are the same through the wrong logic. The logic the games shows three are the same.

>>5862231
Then describe this logic

Know what pisses me off?
The love trials.

I mean, seriously, what a load of horseshit. Is this ACTUALLY supposed to represent a possible motive?
I'll buy the "they're just pieces, so murder is justifiable" crap even though that really sounds like a bad excuse, but then we get "it's okay to murder as long as it's for LOVE".

Did I honestly understand that correctly? It's okay to kill someone as long as it directly benefits you?
WHAT?
This coming from the guy who spend an entire arc of Higurashi explaining why murder is always the very, very last resort... it just feels incredibly, incredibly off to me.

I dunno, does anyone else see anything REALLY, REALLY WRONG with all this?

>>5862218
Battler leaving was the starting point.
But of course, Sayo didn't have DID simply because her boyfriend didn't come back.
Forgot the old man who was trying to revive Beatrice on the island.
This guy who was the master of the island, the same who supposedly "created" the furnitures that are Shannon and Kanon.

I'm sure you can think of some things that are traumatizing enough for a young girl to become mentally sick.

>>5862270
The love trial is the best way this logic is presented. Review that.

>>5862291

Remember that this is Meta-world shit with Pieces. Meaning that it only happened because Battler wanted to make a point with it.

>>5862355
And the only point I can see him using this to make would be a "possible motive".
Therefore, Beatrice killed EVERYBODY because she loved Battler.
...And this is perfectly okay?

>>5862377

It's a thematic statement. "People can and will do terrible things for the sake of love."

>>5862295
First of all, well documented that Kinzo likes the blonde ones. Not Nihon pig disgusting.
(Yeah, I advocate for Jessitrice/Fusiontrice. I suppose that isn't much of a rebut)

I don't think you're really thinking this whole mental disorder thing through. I think you're just looking for a generalized extreme trauma, in order to justify a generalized extreme insanity. And once Shannon is "lol crazy" then she can do anything you want her to do, because her actions don't need to make sense anymore.

Mental problems don't work that way. People might follow a twisted rationale, but its still comprehensible.

>>5862399
...Listening to Kyrie talk for five minutes would have accomplished the same thing with much less horseshit.

>>5862402
>People might follow a twisted rationale, but its still comprehensible.
Exactly. Just because Shannon might have DID does not mean she can do around and shoot everyone for undefined reason X.

Was it ever explained why Kyrie was translated with a Greek/western name when she's not Ushiromiya-born and thus Kirie is a perfectly acceptable japanese name?

>>5862417
>>5862417

Whether Shannon has DID or is just extremely mental doesn't change the fact that she could kill someone for a reason that could be paraphrased as "doing it for love" , that reason is the Mystery we are trying to solve. Love is the clue. Without Love it cannot be seen blah blah blah.

And also: things that may not make sense to us may make sense to someone who is in DEEP LOVE or is just Insane, just watch for the characterization (Beato sometimes makes moves that don't make sense because her means become her goals etc)

>>5862302
Beatrice participates in the love trial, but everyone else completely ignores her. Even fucking Battler doesn't seem to care. Throughout the whole sequence everyone is focused totally on Shannon and Kanon. As far as I can tell, the only reason she was there was to bring the number of deaths up to six, plus the narrative purposes (her themes of trying to become whole, and figuring out how to love, align with theirs)

It's weird that she suddenly became involved again when it was soul eating time, but I'm willing to chalk that up to R07 feeling the need to make every big personal revelation come from an existential near death experience (A Battler moment, if you will) You will also notice, that after the contest, she was considerably less dead than Kanon was.

>>5862417
This is Ryukishi07 we're talking about. He can't have a good idea without spelling it out to us in like 5 different ways.

And I STILL refuse to believe the Shkannon theory, at least in its conventional sense (I.E. both are the same person.)

However, especially given the introduction of Zepar and Furfur, a twist I would think more likely is something involving Saya and Yoshiya being able to switch places (in the roles of Shannon and Kanon.) It would resolve many of the issues that ShKannon seems to solve without opening up all the other issues to explain just how having only one person in both roles would work.

...thread deleted so posting here instead.
Bullshit. You had me worried for a minute. She is shown.
The people who are REALLY not shown are:
Episode 1 (out of 18 characters) - Maria + Natsuhi sprites not shown, Nanjo sprite is shown but no background.
Episode 2 (out of 19 characters) - Kumasawa, Nanjo, Shannon sprites not shown
So like someone else said Nanjo is the only one you can say didn't have his location shown twice.

So does Shannon dress up to look like Kanon on occasion? Or does Kanon actually exist and Ryu is trolling again.

Or is there a completely seperate main-personality who manages to switch between playing Shannon and Kanon?

>>5862477

I swear, Nanjo is involved in SOMETHING. That old fucker is so suspicious it's not even funny.

>>5862500
What do you think he was doing all those times he said he was playing chess with a dead man?

>>5862542

Being suspicious, that's what.

It's a shame that episode 5 killed off my pet theory that Kinzo never actually died and that Nanjo was really Kinzo pretending to be someone else to watch his family squabble over money.

>>5862478
Let's put it this way. If the duel was really for deciding which personality of a DID person to win, then as soon as Beatrice lost she would have disappeared if it was soul eating thing everyone thinks it is. Instead Beatrice only disappeared when Kanon died(which is corresponded with killing himself in the closet), hint hint.

>>5862759
>hint hint
you sound like a retard

Laughing at the retards who still don't believe in ShKanontrice

>>5862759
do not know what hinting at

>>5862775
And the cherry on the cake

quick question regarding this red:
>Of course. Three people--in other words, three bodies--went in or out. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. It has already been said in red that all people can only use their own names. Therefore, the names Erika, Battler, and Kanon can only be used by those people.

It says only Battler left, two bodies are in the room, and Kanon doesn't exist after Erika executed the last few twilights. Wouldn't that mean that there is still a physical body in the room and Erika can't see it?

>>5862793
Yeah, sorry, don't see how that's relevant.

>>5862793
It's possible that Kanon is just Beatrice dressing up as a male to fuck with Battler, and that Beatrice != Shannon. It would end up meaning that everything we were fed about who Kanon is is meaningless and that Kanon is actually mysterious person X in reality.(not like there was much about Kanon to begin with)

>>5862856
yeah, beatrice was just pretending to be male for several years

>>5862855
Probably because you don't know how to read

>>5862894
Or, you know it's her getting everyone to play along with so that Battler won't find out. If you had paid any attention to the stuff that Ange was figuring out, it's that Beatrice was far more powerful and influential beyond just the island than you think. Also it would make sense since she has to get the game set up for Battler using some people from off of the island. So she probably told them that if they help she will give them the money they so desired.

>>5859475
Li'l Battler meets Li'l Beato. Tells her of this murder plan, just venting out his anger and not actually meaning it. Li'l Battler leaves, and Li'l Beato returns to the care of Kinzo, her 'father figure' (1967 Beatrice, the one Rosa killed, who had the chat in the garden with Kinzo in EP3), and lets slip this plan to him. Kinzo isn't inspired by Battler, but by his beloved Beatrice...indirectly, caused by Battler. Battler's indirect sin resulting in a great number of people on the island dying.

>>5862775
>>5862793

How do you take Umineko screenshot?

Why wasn't Shannon's corpse seen inside the closet after Kanon died?

>>5862967
If Kanon was dead then there was no need for Shannon/Beatrice to be in the closet. They could have been anywhere in the room.

>>5862967

Why do you think? The same reason all the other contadictions of ShkShit exist. It's just a crap theory, nothing more.

>>5862955

help?

>>5863094
The same way you take a screenshot of everything else? Press printscreen while playing Umineko. Open up some image editing program. Paste into it.

>>5863100

oh, that?

I thought there a kay for screen