/jp/ - Otaku Culture

The man is clearly a supernatural character

Keiichi and Jessica

The blue man HAS to be a meta-character. The eyes give it away.

The red... person... is clearly a gameboard character, although whether she'll be in 1986 or not I'm not certain.

Regardless, she or he seems to be a member of Krauss' family somehow...

She has the head's ring, Beatrice's brooch, Maria's rose, and the One Winged Eagle...

>>5678489

She also has a variant of Krauss' suit with Natsuhi's brooch thing, Jessica's hair, and Battler's face.

...What is this monstrosity!?

Her outfit reminds me of Rosa.

Satoko.

Bern's pieces. Guy is Wright for fucking killing all witches and sorcerers. And chick is a dummy GM, to play for the witch side.

You can see the old portrait for Beatrice behind the man in blue.

>>5678499
BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED, I AM KRAUNATSUJESIBATTLERICE

meta jessica and george

>>5678502
And Keiichi.

Bernkastel planned the whole gameboard. She planned to use her furniture around the end.

The whole of Umineko is in her mind.

The man in blue has the exact same kind of eyes as Dlanor.

>>5678516

The blonde has to be a human character. Her eyes are black.

just finished ep 6 a few hours ago myself...and I'm left completely puzzled how this shit's gonna go down, period.

just seems like they left no indencation that Beaotrice OR Battler will be involved in this next game's metaworld with the tea parties, that and the holy dicks so many implications going on here my head is full of fuck

She's Jessica's daughter who fell madly in love with Battler,became his girlfriend,got dumped then became Erika

Makes total sense

"She" is Shkannon in Beatrice mode

pretty oddball thought, but what if its the actual Beatrice that lived on the island 30 years ago? We haven't really heard much about her other than Rosa apparently witnessed her death, and that she was real.

>>5678553

She looks nothing like Shannon or Kanon. She has Battler's facial construction.

>>5678565
So he was a woman all along.

>Keiichi
This could be really cool.

>>5678560

Certainly possible, since the opening seems to show her in Kuwadorian, but then, what is she doing with someone who is obviously Dine?

>>5678565
Battler's greatest sin
"He" is actually she that tricks women into lesbianism.

>>5678575

I got no clue, just like how ep 6 left me completely dumb founded on many levels.

I'm really hoping they don't totally neglect meta-battler and beato in the next two though...that'd really be a bummer.

>>5678575
>what is she doing with someone who is obviously Dine?
Superior furniture?
Beatrice did like mystery novels, that's why she is the master of closed rooms, apparently.

>>5678565
>She looks nothing like Shannon or Kanon
>nothing
Really now?

the red one is sherlock holmes, the blue dine/wright

I suspect that, if he's not Dine, he's probably a young Kinzo.

>>5678588

thats terrible stupid, sorry. it doesnt even match

>>5678588
Ryukishi can't draw, they all look the same.

derp

>>5678587
Except 'that' Beato has nothing to do with 'our' Beato who is a mystery expert. Because she died long ago, and Beato-elder, that should have inherited her traits, wasn't aware of such knowledge.

>>5678588
Remember when we did this with Bernkastel and Erika? Doesn't exactly work with Ryu's art.

It's the first Beatrice and Kinzo

People mistakenly think it isn't Kinzo because she has the One Winged Eagle and he doesn't. This is because that symbol wasn't always the Ushiromiya's. Kinzo took it from Beatrice. Beatrice's furniture bearing the system is evidence that it's hers.

/thread

>>5678624
>>old kinzo
this theory gives me OH DESIRE

Actually, the person in red is a guy.

>>5678548
That would imply that Satoko and Riki are split personalities of the same person. We've seen each alone, but have we ever seen both of them do significant things at the same time?

>>5678624
Too cool for WWII Kinzo with yellow eyes sorry.

let's pretend that baby that Natushi killed lived, and it isn't Battler, might also be it?

god damnit so many questions and only two episodes left.

Asumutrice.

I called it.

>>5678624
So Kinzo has yellow eyes all of a sudden and colored hair?
This just screams Meta character, along with his stupid clothing.
He looks like a gay pirate, also notice the anchor pendant.

all this shkhannontrice talk makes me wanna go back and reread everything to find situations where it'd be troublesome to have them in the same room - only two I can think of off the top of my head are the "possed" Kanon incident in ep 2, and the end of ep 5 where they all got locked in the same room...

>>5678649

>implying it's not Jessica

>>5678667
1. They works in benefit to it. Kanon is declared dead yet people still see him. Kanon is a personality not a person. Shannon killed everybody in that room but the witch made us see it as Kanon

2. IIRC Erika wasn't in that room so it's meaningless. Battler's POV in EP5 is unreliable.

>>5678624
It can't be Kinzo because Kinzo never had a talent for anything magic related. This guy kills witches, Kinzo wants to summon and be with a witch, also be granted sorcerer powers. Therefore, theory denied.

>>5678641
Since this world is connected to that world, after all.

>>5678688
Thinking Kinzo wants to be a sorcerer with magic is a theory it of itself. Beatrice also says in EP5 that Kinzo lacked talented but worked hard and achieved results.

>>5678688
Thinking Kinzo wants to be a sorcerer with magic is a theory in of itself. Beatrice also says in EP2 that Kinzo lacked talented but worked hard and achieved results.

Guys, its clearly Natsuhi's son. He's just really flamboyant-- remember when Nappi wasn't sure if it was a boy or a girl talking to her on the phone?

That's because this guy is MAD GAY.

>>5678716

do we even know the gender of that kid? I don't recall it ever being addressed

>>5678633
>>5678588
I DON'T KNOW
WHAT
TO BELIEVE

But, er, it could be a personification of the second Battler, that comes on the island, and then is revealed to be Jessica or something.

This world is part reflection part continuation of higurashi. The connections between the worlds are weaved and spun.
If we find out what archetype they are, we can find what they represent here.

I think it's fairly obvious that the one in red is pro-magic and the one in blue is pro-mystery, we can't really deny that.

but yeah, who the fuck these two are is a different deal.

I miss Battler already.

See, dealing with the second Battler, I think it has to be a female, depending on how red works.

Remember?
>Ushiromiya Battler was born from Ushiromiya Asumu
>Ushiromiya Battler is not Ushiromiya Asumu's son
>Battler is not Asumu's son

So we have a Battler born from Asumu, but according to the red text Battler is not Asumu's son.

Sure, we can say "Well, they mean our Battler isn't her son", but I think we can also take it to mean that Battler is not Asumu's son so much as she is her daughter.

I would laugh hard if, just when it's as close to confirmed as it could get without the red, it turns out that blondie is the second Shkanon persona in human form (Sayo or Yoshiya, take your pick).

The shitstorm that would follow it would be glorious. We'd have the Shkanon fags collectively shitting bricks and the anti-Shkanon fags sucking Ryu's cock.

I'm calling it now, just because everything else has already been suggested.

>>5678759
I'm pretty sure Beatrice used a gender neutral term originally.

>>5678714
Goldsmith.

Anyways, the guy isn't fucking Kinzo. THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE IN DLANOR'S ORGANIZATION YOU KNOW?

>>5678786
THERE IS A REASON WHY HER ORGANIZATION IS NAMED FUCKING IRON MAIDEN.

>>5678814
THE EISERNE JUNGFRAU CONSISTS OF DLANOR, GETRUDE, CORNELIA.

THE BIGGER ORGINAZATION ALSO HAD DLANOR'S FATHER AND MORE PEOPLE.

>>5678767
I don't even see how it could be supposed to work

I have a bad feeling about these two.

Remember all the pretentious Featherine scenes in episode 6? These two, the not -Jessica Kanon Hybrid lady specifically, just scream obnoxious.

>>5678814

cause no matter where we are, it's gonna get us no matter how far? or see the blood flow watching it shed up above their heads. Does Iron Maiden wants us for dead?

pic related let's rev up that magic.

>>5678836
shhhht, he'll say that Dlanor's father was a female

3. There must be no love interest. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar.

11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person — one that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion.

>>5678836
DLANOR EXECUTED HER FUCKING FATHER, CAN YOU EVEN READ.

>>5678841

I really didn't see why people raged so much at that part - it seemed like she was pulling a Stephen King Dark Tower thing to me kinda, but I'm a Dark Tower fan through and through so maybe I'm immune to it

>>5678850
actually it ts quite fitting with Bern as a GM. But the whole game board will still be broken by this and everything else.

>>5678861
Because he betrayed his own rules in the end. And? What is it supposed to prove?

>>5678841

I thought those were the best part of the episode, honestly.

It's one of the only times when the mystery is actually really considered, and contains some of the best Non-Shkannon clues.

>>5678864
I hate Author Avatars, even more so when they insult their own readers. I'm spending my time reading your work, I'm not an idiot, so why insult me? Even Battler insulted me at the end, ugh.

>>5678880

Because Feathrine is not a fucking Author Avatar. They have similarities, and is certainly a reference to Ryukushi as the "author" but not every word that comes out of her mouth is direct from Ryukushi to you. Stop being so Asspained.

They both have a penis

Dine and his detective Vance, who is described as "fabulous" in the books.

>>5678861
Noticed that I said "had"
>HAD DLANOR'S FATHER
>had

I wonder if you can even read.

>>5678880
Personally, I wasn't feeling insulted by her or Battler. I'm sure some people were, but it was not my case. So the problem is not on Ryukishi's side, here.

>>5678880

I don't recall her OR Battler insulting us at all man, got no idea where you're coming from with that or how you interpreted us, as the reader of the sound novel, being insulted

>>5678887
Well, true. I doubt Ryukushi would paint himself as a villain in the end. And it seemed to me that Featherine's view of the truth will differ from Ange's in the end.

>>5678887
Featherine doesn't have all the solutions, so she needs the help of Bern as a GM to reveal the TRUTH.
If she were Ryu's avatar 100% this couldn't be compatible, so no.

>>5678906

The real featherine had found the truth.

>>5678894
Hell, stop with this stupid Vance. why not, but why should Vance have the one winge eagle and everything else?
No, no "he took Krauss' outfits". Erika had Jessica's outifits, WITHOUT the eagle.

>>5678866
>actually it ts quite fitting with Bern as a GM.
That's one of the main reasons why we think so.
And at least we are promised 'no tricks'.

>>5678902
She was criticizing people who are not thinking, if fact. So it can apply to some people.

>>5678912

Because Bern wants to mock the Ushiromiya Family in every fucking possible way, that's why he also has the head ring, who is wear by the GM.

>>5678936
Or he is a member or the family.
More realistic, to me.
And it would break a rule we have on the gameboard, since ep1, and only for the lulz.

"So, anyone can be or not be from the family now, look, I am giving the eagle to a gay who was passing by".

Possibly a a younger Rosa?
No idea who the man could be. I doubt it would be Maria's father, since he was probably just a con man, but if it is, the color of their clothes makes some sense (ROSA Beatrice and ??? detective), but why would they both be in the portrait? Isn't that reserved for the witch/game master? Will there be 2 GMs?

Let's not forget episode 7 is meant to be an end-all spoiler episode which reveals what really went on(but it probably won't be enough to save the people on the island, however it will probably reveal the culprit and "kill" Beato. Episode 8 will most likely be the happy end.)

I will say though that I raged a little bit when Beato (appeared to) call Shkannon a great trick.

It was like he was patting himself on the back for a pretty crumby resolution.

I thought we already agreed the blue guy is Wright

How about them butterfly brooch on the table?

>>5678961
>And it would break a rule we have on the gameboard, since ep1, and only for the lulz.

what rule?

>>5678966
Elaborating on this, what if the con man/Maria's father is really after the gold and that's why he comes to the island?

>>5678999

might be related to whatever that conversation on the phone Ange's body guard was having...that shit was fishy as fuck.

>>5678989
I just say it under this sentence.
but if for you rule = knox, yes, it don't broke anything.
However, it would mean that anyone could be, not to be, whatever, closely related to the family, and we have no way to know about it.
And this only to put an eagle on a gay detective.
a pretty limited interest, I must say.

If you want Bern to do anything with the gameboard just for her fun, there is no way for this ep to contain answers.

Was the existence of the gold ever confirmed in red?

>>5679065
wasn't it in ep3 and 5?

>>5679065
#This mountain of gold is the real thing. All of the ingots piled up here are real, pure gold! There are absolutely no tricks such as replicas or fakes!!

>>5679071
The existence of one baton and some other ones were confirmed, but I don't remember if the existence of ALL the gold was confirmed.

Since so many people survived the last game, couldn't she be the family head in the future?

Why is Goldie so flat?

>>5679114
They were only alive at the moment of the game's suspension.

By the way, it's not like having a mountain of gold officially is really such a good thing, because you'll have to pay a huge tax. And you can't just sell it. It's only good as a collateral for some half-illegal operations, based on trust, like Kinzo and Kraus perform.

Inb4 future Jessica going back in the past with Van Dine in order to save Kanon

I'm sure Goldilocks will be great at figuring out closed rooms.

>>5679114

Nope, they all died.

Also, s/he has no tits and no blue eyes, so s/he can't Jessica, Shkanon or Beatrice.

>>5679125
Oh, I see.

Does that game remain suspended forever then?

>>5679130
Jessica isn't obsessed with Kanon, she just has a crush on him.

If she knew that Kanon killed her family she'd turn on him in a heartbeat.

>>5679131
>Goldilocks
>locks
>closed rooms

ALL OF MY HATE.

>>5679135
Well, nobody have blue eyes in the real world, so it wouldn't be a surprise for a "true" beato

>>5679137

There is a bomb, they simply all die.

>>5679148
>nobody have blue eyes in the real world

But blue eyes are extremely common in the real world ಠ_ಠ

>>5679135
Ryukishi should introduce another new character.

Pic related.

>>5679142
Don't stop people from making stupid theories.
Seriously, explain me why we should have a future Jessica. Especially when we have already a lot of "missing characters" who have to appear.

>>5679148

In Rosa's flashback she had blue eyes and huge tits.

>>5679167
Well, that character isn't Jessica, plain and simple.

I'd be thrilled if she were Asumu, but I doubt it. In any case, characters appearing in Bern's game should not be trusted.

>>5679157
No. That would be such a bullshit answer that I would personally track R07 down, and slap him, if he did that. Seriously, even if it did work (and there are a lot of reasons it doesn't, mainly that this would never have become a big murder mystery years later if it were obvious a large explosion had occurred, bottles or not) it would just be such a fucking BORING answer. I refuse to believe that R07 can't do better than that.

>>5679172
>trusting a 18 yo. memory that's clearly been influenced by the portait

>>5679172
But rosa's flashback used beato's normal sprite and was a memory, so it was highly unreliable
We don't even know how much quantity of fantasy there was into it.

>>5679194
I don't like it, but I'm not against the explosion, personnaly. However the bomb is quite strange. A bomb, and nobody said a word about this in the future, they just don't care?

>>5679203
Well, if the anime can somewhat help here, is by also showing beato in the flashback as she looks in the portrait.

But yeah, it's not reliable either.

>>5679194

Why is an explosion weird?
Beside, it's not like the killing didn't happen, the explosion was only used for covering all that shit

It could also have been the boiler room, but whatever

They just died in the explosion. All of the stories about the witch and shit were forged later. There never was any mystery.

>>5679282
reverse trolling?

>>5678814
Is it because they love to ROCK?

>>5679354
FUCK YEAH

How come everyone thinks the man in blue is Dine? Is there any hint at all?

it was all a dream. battler falls down some stairs and falls into a coma he awakens from a horrible nightmare just in time for the next family conference. the nightmare is episodes 1-7

>>5679372
How about you read the fucking thread.

>>5679373
I TOLD YOU ABOUT STAIRS BRO

This is the 17th person X who was on the island the whole time.

>>5679390
His name is actually 'X', therefore he doesn't violate any Knox or Dine, because he was foreshadowed in the ep1.

Kanon's real form and his lover, Purupurupiko-man

>>5679403
You nailed it alright, our superior intellect can't be fooled by Ryukishi!

>>5678586
No worries, the teaser for EP7 said the game will have "interference from bystanders". Bern can't even exist in Beato and Battler's territory without their consent, so you can bet they'll be meddling as much as they can.

>>5679380
IT KEEPS HAPPENING

....Who the hell is Dine and Wright? I must've missed something big time.

>>5679372
S.S. Van Dine pseud. for Willard Huntington WRIGHT

>>5679403
i WOULDNT PUT PAST HIM

>>5679437
google: ss van dine
and
>>5678814

>>5679437
Phoenix Wright

Sup Bitches

>>5679464
You're not Keiichi

>>5679372
1. Anchor-key pendant like the symbol on Dlanor's hat.
2. Golden eyes like Dlanor's.
3. Unused code in the EP6 files for a new character named "Raito" (Wright).
4. TIPS info about a character named "Wizard-Hunting Wright" who works for heaven and is based on Dine.
5. Observation that Bern intends to carry out a cruel game, and Dine's commandments run completely counter to the themes in Beato's story.

"Van Dine" is also a character in his own books, Vance assistant..

>>5679249

He looks like Yuri from SH2

ATTENTION: KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me. KoG has sent me.

>>5679615
Yuri will die.

But his soul will chose to go back in time, the the time when he was happiest, and he will be on Rokkenjima.

Karin who loves Yuri want to be with him too and want to be in a time when Yuri'd love her, but since he already loves Alice she'll go back in time and become his assistant.

>>5679626

Seriously? If you want to raid at least learn how to do it properly, faggot.

>>5678489
>>5678499
Could she be a sort of incarnation of everyone on the island?
Possibly the split personality of a few members of the family, that could be justified with mass hallucinating or the beginning of some disorder they're all developing.

Keiichi and Satoko.
enough said.

>Wizard Hunting Wright is more powerful than Dlanor
>Bernkastel wants to tell a bare-bones store devoid of love

Yeah, it's Wright

Featherine has a portrait of that bimbo cape-Battler, so I guess we all know which way she's going to lean.

>>5679754
>Bernkastel wants to tell a bare-bones store devoid of love
Yeah, Wright was also opposed to include love in mysteries.
"3. There must be no love interest. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar."

Guys, just a thing here...back in ep4 if I recall, right at the begining, R07 put a scene in reminding us the The North Wind and The Sun Strategy. That was either something to throw us off track or it's there for a reason -- like saying, "Don't say I didn't warn you!" Is all the poor-beato shit from the last 2 episodes nothing but an epic troll?

Because of Umineko and eye colors, we can safely say the blonde is human and the cape guy is non-human. (The anime changes eye colors so it's not relevant). Cape guy could be either a meta-world exclusive character or a cross-world character (like Erika), but the blonde will most certainly exist on the game board. As stated, Dlanor is the only yellow-eyed character thus far, so he could be related. (Furniture like the Stakes, Siestas and even Sakutarou all have red eyes).

I was surprised when I heard people assuming the blonde was male; I thought it was clearly a girl. Now I have no idea. After EP6, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it were male.

>>5680159
Gold eyes: Personification of litterature rules
Red eyes: Personification of delusions and lies (make believe)

blue guy is k1 im calling it

>>5680050
This is actually what some people predicted when they got word that Beato dies in Episode 5.

Van Dine coupled with a real Beatrice for maximum trolling purposes.

>>5679452
I'm okay with this.

Van Dine is Bern finally bringing in K1 to wreck Battler's shit.

>>5679615

nope, he doesn't look like an ugly gook

Come on, people, it isn't that hard.
>She has the head's ring, Beatrice's brooch, Maria's rose, and the One Winged Eagle...
Moreover, she is wearing Ushiromiya-ish clothes. She is clearly the old Beatrice who truly existed at one point.

The fact that the blue guy is wearing a necklace with a symbol containing a key and that he has yellow eyes makes it clear that he is at least a being similar to Dlanor; context hints towards a character based on Wright.

I had a teacher way back in highschool with the last name of Van Dine.

>>5680991
Oh and she taught classic lit i think.

>>5680991
Did you ever ask her to repeat it in red?

>>5681037
If it wasn't like 6 years ago I would have just for you, anonymous

>>5680970
That just makes it sound like she's the Beatrice persona of ShKannotrice.

>>5681081
Possible, but what make you think we arent just seeing her in flashback scene?

We are probably gonna play ep7 from POV. The only kakera where Ange was sick and still attending the meeting.

>>5678966
>happy end

It won't be

There's a scene in episode 1 where kyrie says that tragic ends are better, or something to that effect. This was going to end somewhat badly from the start.

The trap is probably the guy from 19 years ago or Asumu's son whom Bern is using as her new detective piece, in short its the new Erika

>>5679403
CASE CLOSED LET'S GO HOME

>>5679403
>His name is actually 'X', therefore he doesn't violate any Knox or Dine, because he was foreshadowed in the ep1.

SUP GUYS

>>5681060
Six years ago? That was when Battler sinned. Coincidence? I think not.

Here's a thought:

In EP6, Erika claims that she's not going to make the detective's proclamation, so that she has the same status as battler in the first four games, and so she can regain her pride.

so...
>same status as battler
>no detective proclamation, not the detective

Does that mean Battler was never the detective in the first four Episodes to begin with? because that's what I'm getting out of this.

>>5681962
Well, it was never stated that he was the detective in those games. It was all up to assumptions.

>>5681983
Aren't most of the theories founded on the fact that he IS detective in the first four games?

For example, a lot of Shkanon is based on the fact that battler never sees the two at the same time, no?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this moot everything we've assumed so far?

Rosa-Beatrice. I want to believe. ;_;

>>5681962
You can be the detective without having the bullshit powers that Erika had in episode 5.

>>5682022
Yes, yes it does. But everything would just turn out to be pure bullshit if we don't believe he is the detective in the first place.

>>5682052
>Ryukishi
>not pure bullshit

I want to believe....

>>5681962
> Until now, you have been the DETECTIVE!
> Until now, you have been the DETECTIVE!

>>5682047
>You can be the detective without having the bullshit powers that Erika had in episode 5.

This. The whole point of Episode 5 is to hammer home just how much of a Mary Sue/Deus Ex Machina the character of the "detective" is in mystery stories, which is also the reason why Battler's shown as being realistically incompetent and reluctant to accuse his family of being murderers.

>>5681253
The whole thing will feel pointless if the ending is "AND THEN THEY ALL DIED."

Although, Sayo realizing she killed her best friend, Fiance, and true love for nothing while breaking down would be rather awesome.

>>5683375
There are two endings I can not accept.

The first being an ending in which everyone survives and Beatrice, Shannon, and Kanon become their own people. Oh no no, if we're going to have a good end in the real world you better as hell keep the three personas the same person.


The second being an ending where they all move on to heaven. Oh, great for them, too bad Ange had a shitty life and Eva got utterly and totally screwed.

>>5683345

Until episodes 3 and 4, where his behavior starts to loop, Ryukishi seems to forget where his characters started (when he was first shown magic, he said "bullshit; I'm not buying anything that you show me"; that was the initial explanation given for the start of the game), and selective memory on everybody's part. (like with the red truth; first explained in episode 2 that she doesn't need to answer, then again in episode 3, and then AGAIN in episode 4, and each time, Battler acts surprised)

It's definitely Kinzo and Beatrice.

This episode will be about Kinzo adventure around the world with Beatrice and how they get 10 tons of gold as a pirate. FUCKING KINGZO!!!

Why do people think Richter is Dine when Dine has no place in Umineko due to several of his rules being broken already?

>>5683464
>Why do people think Richter is Dine when Dine has no place in Umineko due to several of his rules being broken already?

Precisely because of that. The next GM is Trollkastel, remember?

You know what's hilarious? I can solve every crime, in every game, without once resorting to Shkannon bullshittery to get through. Even Episode 6 (the Ep 6 solution is fairly surreal, but then again the whole episode is).

So really, anyone should have been able to do the same. Why is everyone so anally injured over the fact that Ryu trolled us with that theory this whole Ep? If you just kept thinking, any level of trick can be beaten.

It's gonna be fucking HILARIOUS when Bern trolls you all hardcore in the next ep. There are going to be DIVIDE BY ZERO levels of insanity.

I can't wait.

>>5681962
I always took it as:

Everything Battler sees=real (except for obvious fantasy shit)
Everything else=left to interpretation

>>5683525
Must be nice, running your mouth without backing up your words. If you're just going to pass by and say "lol i solved it, do the same faggots" then just get out, you have no place here.

>>5683525
Recount what happened in episode four.

>>5683548
I've posted all my solutions here at some point or another. Generally someone tries to argue about some finer point, and 20 posts later the thread has completely derailed, so I've pretty much given up.

If you really want to see my answers, I'm willing to post them, but the trolling that usually ensues makes me not really want to.

>>5683525
>It's gonna be fucking HILARIOUS when Bern trolls you all hardcore in the next ep. There are going to be DIVIDE BY ZERO levels of insanity.

You know what will be even more hilarious? If Bern trolls anti-Shkanon fags by using Shkanon as the solution for the crimes

>>5683600
It would be more hilarious when Bern did that and Battler just casually walk up in the end and deny it in Red.

Shit will be so cash man.

>>5683600
Then gets trolled at the very end when the witch side out of pity for her retardedness reveal the whole thing disproving Shkanon forever.

>>5683590
That only show how stupid your solution is if they are so easily quashed.
At the end of the days, shkanon has no loophole besides why are the 14people on the island besides Battler are playing along with this charade. I give Battler the benefit of doubt since he wasn't in rokkenjima for 6years but the rest of them cant be that retarded unless it is part of the grander scheme.

My money is still on Kanontrice end. We know Beatrice is either Shannon or Kanon. Ryu built up ShannonXGeorge way too much too break short of either of their deaths. On the other hand KanonXJessica feels forced even for Ryu, and even then isn't even love but just the building of saying they could if Kanon wasn't so stubborn about not wanting to fall in love. Also I don't think Beatrice's piece would be as willing as Shannon was to get into a new relationship after the Battler fiasco.

>>5683791
>At the end of the days, shkanon has no loophole
Wow, are you dumb. Shkanon isn't hated just because it's a stupid idea, but because it has so many holes in it that swiss cheese is jealous. For proof look at the fact that it would have been impossible for everyone who lives and works there with them not to know about it, yet obviously do. Even in the case they pitied it, they would have told EVERYONE including Battler so that they wouldn't have made fun of them if/when it was found out.

>>5683881
I think you must be stupid or something. It has no loopholes as it doesn't contradict a red truth if R07 treat personality as a separate entity and we have Ange/Featherinne conversation talking about this.

None of the alternative even sound plausible with the red text and they end up usually being more retarded than the retarded solution that they are trying to deny.

Also thanks for repeating what I said about the rest of the retarded people on the island playing along with this charade.

For the people who supports Shkanon I want to ask this question. Why the fuck whould Shanon create 'Kanon' in the first place? did she feel sorry for Jessica because she didn't have a boyfriend? there is no point. I can understand her creating 'Beatrice' but why Kanon?

>>5683580

Alright, fine. Let's bear in mind that, while Episode 4 didn't play the 'closed room' card too heavily, there are only two possible scenarios for a closed room to work: The illusion of a closed room, or the illusion of a crime. Also bear in mind that while I don't support Shkannon, I DO believe that Shannon is 'Beatrice'. Let's begin.

First Twilight: Upon announcing Kinzo's arrival, Kanon enters the room with Kinzo's body on a pushcart or some apparatus. During the commotion this causes, he and Shannon pick up the guns that were also on the cart, and shoot 6 people pretty much at random. Shannon targets Eva and Hideyoshi because they are an obstacle between her and George, Kanon targets Natsuhi and Genji for grudges of his own. Rosa for her abuse of Beatrice's friend Maria, and Rudolph either just got unlucky or maybe to keep him from blabbing about whatever it is he knows.

Gohda and Kumasawa are sent to the guesthouse to spin a fantastic tale about demons and witches being summoned by Kinzo, and are kept in check by the fact that they were told that one of the cousins is working with Kanon and Shannon.

The surviving family members (Krauss and Kyrie) are herded someplace fairly easy to keep them under control. Nanjo joins up with Shannon's side (since he was working with them anyway, as seen in other games), and the first phone call is made. Speakers are rotated, and a careful watch is kept to prevent anyone from acting up. Gohda and Kumasawa are locked in the storage shed.

Shannon's plan (or rather, Beatrice's) to execute Kinzo's will begins. Jessica (the mole in the cousin's group since she normally works with Kanon anyway) is called out first and joins with them. Around this time, Shannon or Kanon heads over to the storage shed to deal with Gohda and Kumasawa.

>>5684484
Now remember the rule of closed rooms. Gohda and Kumasawa are certainly killed, so the trick here must be that it isn't a closed room. Either A) The ropes they 'hung' themselves with were part of an attempt to fake their own deaths, possibly on orders, and they were shot through the open window. The impact of the bullets turned them away from the window... or B) there was another key to the storage shed. The killer simply let him or herself in, told them to set the ropes up like that, and then shot them, locking up afterwards.

I'll go with B. Less tricky geometry. While they are out there, Genji's set of keys is left in front of the chapel. And the mansion is thoroughly locked up on the way back in, shutters closed etc.

Now then. George is called out next. Jessica takes a gun and goes to meet him at the arbor. Kanon and the rest keep watch over the prisoners, but due to some carelessness during the phone transferal, Krauss sees a chance to overpower Kanon and takes his gun. Kanon is killed. Krauss tries to flee, but Shannon pursues him, disarming him and killing him as he tries to open the back door. Nanjo keeps Kyrie in check.

Jessica's testing of George goes badly, and after George tries to fight back she shoots him dead. She returns to find Kanon and her father dead, and Shannon less than pleased that she killed George. After a confrontation, Jessica is disarmed, and Shannon forces Jessica into her own bedroom.

Jessica is forced to make her phone call. Shannon kills her. She goes back down to the room Kyrie is being kept in, and forces her to make her own final phone call, on the threat that if she doesn't genuinely try to make Battler believe what she is saying, he'll be killed like the rest. Kyrie is killed.

>>5684495
Shannon tells Nanjo to toss Kinzo into the boiler while she calls the guest house again. Maria picks up. Using her Beatrice persona, Shannon calls Maria over to the mansion, and then speaks to Battler, telling him to come take his test. Battler wastes time checking on Gohda and Kumasawa, and finding George.

Maria enters the mansion, and is met by Shannon who has changed into her Beatrice suit and wig. Beatrice leads her to the dining room where the first six died, and gives her a pill to help her sleep while she 'plays dead like the others'.

Battler arrives at the front of the mansion. Beatrice meets him on the balcony and questions him, trying to get him to remember his 'sin'. After he fails to remember and blows her off, she tells him to look for Maria in the chapel, and heads back in.

While Battler is wasting his time trying every key on the loop at the chapel door, Shannon changes back into her maid uniform. She grabs a heavy object and a length of rope from the boiler room. She then orders Nanjo to carry Kanon's body outside and leads him to the old well in the back. The body is hidden, and then she shoots him. Along the way, she staked Kyrie and Krauss.

She then ties one end of the rope to her stone (or whatever equivalent she grabbed), the other to the stock of her gun, and lowers the stone into the well. She also drops any additional guns (like the one Jessica had used) into the well. She then lies a stake near Nanjo to be consistent, and sets one on the ground near her own head, as she lay down. She shoots herself, and the stone pulls the gun she used down into the well where Battler can never find it.

Battler searches around and finds all the bodies but Kanon's, but never finds any weapons since they have been taken from his reach, and the culprits are all dead.

At midnight of the second day, Battler dies when the mansion explodes.

Did I miss anything?

>>5678864

Dark Tower became pure shit after book 1.

>>5684501

Certainly impressive.

>>5684501
Suppose I should point out that I omitted Jessica and Maria's tests semi intentionally. A woman can't inherit the family after all.

But in all fairness, her husband CAN. So if need be assume that either Jessica declined her test, or was tested and failed before she was killed. As for Maria, according to the magic scene Kinzo, she PASSED, but was killed regardless. I'm gonna guess she actually failed if she was even tested.

>>5684501
>Did I miss anything?

Ep5 and 6 would imply that the first twilight is always intended to be fake. Your theory doesn't account for that at all.

>She then orders Nanjo to carry Kanon's body outside and leads him to the old well in the back.
Stopped reading there.

If someone doesn't believe in ShKanonntrice at this point their opinion can be safety discarded. They're idiots who can't read, only creating the illusion that they are reading and comprehending.

>>5683525
>You know what's hilarious? I can solve every crime, in every game, without once resorting to Shkannon bullshittery to get through. Even Episode 6 (the Ep 6 solution is fairly surreal, but then again the whole episode is).
No you can't. There is a difference between "solving" with a made-up truth that's only made in a desperate attempt to escape the now obvious, and finding the real truth.

>It's gonna be fucking HILARIOUS when Bern trolls you all hardcore in the next ep. There are going to be DIVIDE BY ZERO levels of insanity.
>EPIC TROLL XD I'LL SHOW YOU GUYS
It would be nice if every idiot used a tripcode, that way it would be easier to shove it in their face when their idiocy is exposed. That is assuming 07 exposes your idiocy at all, he has a penchant for stopping just short of confirming anything, which is why we are in this situation with people like you still denying Shkanon and waiting for EPIC WIN XD TROLLAN in the first place.

>>5684501
It seems pretty good to me. I'm still a Shkanonfag but I dont think thats the key behing everything, and I think most murders were not commited by Shannon/Kanon anyway. Your theory is a good one.

>>5685206
I dont think the first twilight is always intended to be fake. You cant fake your guts being riped open and stuffed with candy. If I'm not mistaken all that is said in red on that regard is that "they were very alive untill they were killed." Well duh.


Also, I just finished reading "And there were none" a while ago, and wow Umineko DOES have such a similar feeling to it. The end was kinda mediocre I guess, but it had a really great build up to it.

I can't see the the man being anyone but Van Dine at this point. As for the girl, she's still up for grabs, but considering the family head ring, the butterfly brooch and the clothes, especially the golden eagle on them, her being Beatrice or Jessica is likely.

The three important numbers in Umineko, 19, 8 and 6 were derived from 1986.

>>5685224
>>5685265
>>5685311
Oh, look, it's that samefag again.

I would kill for that blonde to be Philo Vance.

>>5686126
Kill R07 and continue to release Umineko under his name then.

>>5685600
I'd wager at least 70% of ShkShit posts come from him. The remaining 30% are two or three guys.

>>5686178
>>ShkShit
It's sad how I can recognize most people now, like you.
Before I thought that Umineko had a big fanbase and that's why there was so much post but actually it's very appparent that a lot of samefaggotry is going on.

You have one guy who keep insulting everyone, ShKanontrice supporter, he posts a lot.
One guy, you, who keep trying to deny ShKanontrice in every ways possible, do you ever fucking sleep?
You guys should just become tripfag, your faggotry is already at their level.

>>5686351

The "ShKShit"fag and "reading comprehension"fag are both the same person, I'm pretty sure.

>You can be the detective without having the bullshit powers that Erika had in episode 5.
The undeniable POV is one of those "bullshit powers" as well.
That's why Erika couldn't confirm people's deaths without it.

Besides, Erika was called the detective even without the detective's authority, but it didn't mean that she was "the detective".
Battler never had the detevtive's authority, and thus he was never "the detective" either.

>>5686675
She can't confirm it with 100% certainty, needed for the red - of course.
Being the detective = POV can't be falsified, i.e. the detective can't lie about what he sees.
Being the detective with a detective proclamation = extra ultra hax powers to control the gameboard and easy access to red (in other words, what she sees is almost red truth by itself, since she can't be fooled).

>>5685206
>Ep5 and 6 would imply that the first twilight is always intended to be fake
Ep1
Nanjo checked the bodies quickly in order to make sure that no one else did anything, he has some authority after all, but he was also quick to say that it was outside of his field so that they wouldn't start rely on him for further details.
Other than him Hedeyoshi was the only one who checked the bodies, Eva made sure that everyone else didn't crowd the whole place in a way that could disturb things.
Natsuhi wanted to cover their faces in respect for the dead, but Eva freaked and quickly put a stop to it arguing how it was a murder scene, and Nanjo quickly jumped in and agreed in order for no further questions to be asked.

And now I don't know what Ryu07 will do to Wright's rules, but
>11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person — one that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion.

Nanjo is the mastermind, Hideyoshi and Eva are his minions, the servants quite possibly works as his helpers and the first twilight was a farce, or at least partly.

>>5686900
>11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person — one that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion.

It was solved in a previous thread.
"Beatrice isn't a servant.
She is a personality inside Sayo who own Rokkenjima and the gold.
If personalities = people in Umineko, and that's Hachijou and Ange confirm, then one personality can have a job, servant, and the other can have another job, witch.

Enjoy the loophole that Ryukishi will use."

>>5686900
In episode 2 and 3 at least the first twilight is real. Smashed faces would be pretty hard to fake too and Nanjo didn't seem to concerned with holding Battler back, nobody really tried to hold him back, so 1 seems real as well. Episode 4 is a clusterfuck but everyone died, Battler got pretty good looks.

>>5686914
Beatrice is a meta being. She's a personification of the rules.

It doesn't make any sense for the other Twilight to be fake:

-they did that for Erika
-Confirmation in red that everyone died

>>5686923
Meta-Beatrice is the personification of the rule.
But there is a gameboard Beatrice too, one who kill people and appear in front of Battler in episode 1, 2 and 4.

>>5678452

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>>5686928
Costume != personality.

>>5686943
And that's where you forget the longass monologue LET'S DIVIDE A SOUL, I'LL GIVE YOU THE BLOND HAIR,etc...

>>5686814
I know of that theory, but if Ryukishi choses it then he have chosen one of the worst possible choices he could make.
That would never make it in any way in a proper mystery novel, and if he really does regard Umineko as a mystery novel at any level at all, then he shouldn't take that path.

"So who killed the master, detective?"
"Oh you see it was his butler that did it after all."
"The butler? But how?" (lets just assume servants can't be the culprit)
"But you see, the butler only worked as a butler half-time, and he spent the remaining hours of each day living a rather different life as a gambler.
and when he all of a sudden lost and got himself a huge debt he could no longer ignore, he could no longer ignore how carelessly the master strolls around the building doing nothing. "
"So the butler killed him?"
"No, you see, here's the twist! Fred the butler, finished his daily work routines with the master and finished his work shift, but later that eavning he came back. But not as Fred the Butler, he came back as Hugh the gambler! And having had enough of his debts he finally took the master's life and drove away with his gold."

Ryu07 can't be this stupid can he?

The only real Beatrice is the one in with Dine in the portrait.
All other Beatrices are meta-beings or simple delusions.

>>5686979
>Ryu07 can't be this stupid can he?
Master Troll

>>5686951
And you forget that Battler needs to know magic to carry his Beatrice off from the gameboard after he wins. If it's just another of the dozens of her real-world personalities, there shouldn't be any problems.

>>5686951
Kinda stupid how people think Shannon can be Beatrice after that. Does she love Battler and have blond hair she can give? Not in the Umineko I read.

>>5686986
I like your theory. Why don't you come over to my house and fuck my sister?

>>5686991
Battler was Shannon's first love, and vice versa, they pretty much says it.
And blond hair she gives could just be something simple like a WIG you know.

>>5686995
How is a wig supposed to make Battler think her FACE is from the portrait like he thinks in ep4? He doesn't say her hair but her face.

>>5686998
Because the portrait was made based on Shannon dresed like Beatrice of course.
The portrait is recent you know, the person posing for it couldn't be anyone else.

>>5686998
...not him, but how is it supposed to be Jessica in that case? Knox says the detective can be mistaken. Battler was mistaken.

How about this? Battler first says it was a woman he hadn't met before, then he says that's wrong, he's seen her once today, in the portrait. Battler also met Shannon for the first time in 6 years in the room with the portrait. What if he confused the memory of her face he saw in the hall with the portrait with the portrait itself slightly in his memory? He might not even realize he did this, because he barely saw Shannon and then a couple of hours later everything went crazy.

Battler dismounted the boat onto the Rokkenjima dock but slipped and banged his head. As he was being carried in by Kanon and Genji, he caught a glance of the portrait of Beatrice. He's still lying unconscious in the guest house, dreaming.

>>5686991
She's bald, so she can wear multiple wigs and change them quickly. Ah, she's also absolutely flat. Isn't it sad, Batora?

>>5684207

>>Hello, I am still taking the red as the ONLY important thing in the story even after 6 eps

>the man from 19 years ago?
We never knew the gender of that child and anyway.

Can we be sure that whoever that child was, is the true territory lord of that world?
And do we even know for sure who it is? (Beatrice in the picture, but yeah)

>>5687963
How old is Ange in 1998? Depending on when her birthday is and what time of year the events of 1998 take place...

>>5687963
actually, because of Knox 1, if you don't want to create a mess with people's personnality, the man from 19 years ago have to be ep2-Beato

Putting them aside, who else do you think Ryu's going to introduce this EP?

>>5688006
Even if those guys aren't them, we will probably see some young Kinzo and past Beato anyway.

I hope not too much other people. Seriously, the cast is already big enough right now.

>>5688006
These chaps

Maria's father was most likely just a con man and a swindler, but I wonder if we will learn more about him.
Perhaps he wants in on the gold?

>>5688040
Noone would ever expect it

>>5688006
Asumu, I hope. Maria's father would be fine too.

>>5686900
You do realize that while van Dine disliked using servants, he hated bullshit conspiracies involving absurd numbers of people working together to commit the crimes.

I'm looking forward to some sort of twist along the lines of "And then there were none" combined with the first twilight generally being fake (a plot to get the gold, I would imagine).

At this point I fully expect R07 to deny Shkanon, sink every other possible theory, and then add even more bs rules, then leave things open ended.

So...Kyrie = Lamba's horse confirmed?

>>5688818
Certainly looks like it. And her story does sound like Lambda would bestow her power upon her. But what does it matter?

>>5688818
Stop looking at this from a WITCHES EVERYWHERE perspective.
Look at it from a meta-fiction way, it just means that Kyrie most likely offed Asumu's herself after waiting for her chance for a long time.

>>5688040
But...

>>5688849
Lambda having a piece in the gameboard makes this more interesting and certainly casts suspicions over what Kyrie does in ep3-5.

I think in this case, a large number of possible murderers with different outcomes makes the most sense.

Basically, in EP3, Bern talks about this game as a dice roll, where there are no odds of tragedy not occurring. When you roll 3 dice, there is no way to get 1, or 2.

In short, because of all of the lies, people are going to die.

If the riddle is not solved, one group will murder.
If the riddle is solved, a different group will murder.

I think that at least 6 of the people on the island are accomplices, and there are probably about 3 different factions that are involved.

Krauss's faction-- who want to use the story of Beatrice to kill off the others and escape losing the family fortune.
Heir's faction-- One of the heirs who wants to take the fortune.
Beatrice (Jessica's) faction-- Basically a prisoner on the island who wants to take advantage of Krauss's plan to exact revenge for 19 years of abuse and neglect. She starts out as an accomplice to Krauss, but takes advantage of the plot to kill off Co-conspirators, with the help of Genji(Ronove) and Kamasuwa(Virgilia)-- this is why Genji escorts Battler to her at the end of Ep2, because she turned the plot upside down and became the "queen" piece.

>>5688878
When was Jessica exactly abused and neglected?
She had a happy life.

>>5688878
For someone who claim having Umineko as favorite VN ever, you sure seem like you don't understand much about it.

>>5688902
When Natsuhi was crazy and mad, then it was closet time, from what we know, maybe worse.

>>5688902
While I severely, severely, SEVERELY doubt Jessica is Beatrice, I can't quite say for she had a happy life. The few bits and pieces we get about her background aren't too comforting.

But I do think she's a good guy, so I also can't see her manipulating people and what not.

>>5688902
She's a masochist.

>>5688939
Jessica's life is awesome. Nothing like having a delusional mother who locked you in closets for long periods of time, a father who is a complete idiot, a grandfather who beat the shit out of you, oh, and guess what?

You're going to be married to some jerkoff because you're the heiress, so you're NEVER getting out of the Ushiromiya family EVER.

Well, actually, scratch that. You ARE getting out of the Ushiromiya family, because your best friend Shannon is actually the dude you have a mild attraction to, and guess who she is going to murder? That's right, you!

Oh and your parents were lying to you for over a year about your grandfather's demise.

>>5678454
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To close the different factions debate I will say one thing that make it impossible.

Simply that every episodes of Umineko, at least episode 1 to 4, can be seen as self-contained.
Basically every episode possess the full "truth" in it, if you are good enough you can understand everything just by looking at episode 1 for example.
Basically the different people dieing in the first twilight can't be just a case of a factions taking over just for that episode, otherwise you wouldn't get the full truth.

There is only one big mystery, one main murderer, everything else exist in the "what if" had acted this way or that way.

I may have skipped something then. When was Jessica locked in closets?

And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

>>5689004
Well, Natsuhi is the BEST MOTHER EVER... so...

>>5689018
Thanks for the image. And I thought that Rosa was the best mother ever...

>>5689018
That's nothing.
Parents always do this kind of thing.

>>5689039
Nappi takes the cake from Rosa for BEST MOTHER EVER.

First child got thrown off of a goddamn cliff.

Second child gets "parented" in a stupid, stupid way.

>>5683539
>Everything Battler sees=real (except for obvious fantasy shit)

Not in episode 5 and 6. He explicitly argued that "He wasn't the detective, and thus could lie/be fooled about what he saw."

>>5689039

You think time-out punishments line up against leaving your daughter home alone for weeks at a time and screaming at her and ripping her toys (the only things that bring her happiness, mind you) to shreds when you come home?

>>5683539
>>5689052

Furthermore, it's not everything Battler sees, but everything told from Battler's perspective.

Whenever "I = Battler", that is.

>>5689058
Not that by itself, sure, but at least Rosa didn't murder Maria.

Remember, the baby, goddamn cliff, etc.

>>5689058
Hey, Rosa knew her kid couldn't develop and grow if she just talked to stuffed animals and lived in a fantasy world all the time.

>>5689069

That wasn't her child, no matter what Kinzo ordered.

>>5689086
But who would kill a baby? Rosa wouldn't do that.

>>5689086
The baby was entrusted to her care because she couldn't bear children, and she killed it. Just because she couldn't handle the responsibility doesn't mean she's not a shitty mother.

>>5689092
>But who would kill a baby? Rosa wouldn't do that.

She probably would, but...the thing about Rosa is she sometimes acts out of her right mind, and then regrets it. Maybe she really does have a Dissociative Personality of the "black witch."

>>5689109
Rosa just has anger attacks.

>>5689007
I know of the "Up until now you have been the DETECTIVE" line, but it was said that Battler lacked the detective's authority.

Now that doesn't mean nothing Battler sees can be seen as reliable, it just means that he can be mistaken and miss details.
He won't know for sure if a body is dead if it's not obvious etc.
Besides if we want someone who has been "the DETECTIVE" from the start, then it's meta battler

>>5683539

Furthermore. Everything Battler sees in 1st person is real. Everyting 3rd person narrated is up in the air.

I feel like we got cheated out of a Bern, Ange, Virgilia or Featherine portrait for this game.

Why are those two in a portrait? She must be a witch or sorcerer. But why is the "Witch hunter" there too? Shit makes no sense.

>>5689312
Wright will actually be an alternate fantasy construction based on Battler

The girl is the real world counterpart of Beatrice

>>5678560

I had the theory a while ago that she faked her own death to escape from the island. Nowhere was it stated in red that 1) That Beatrice was dead. Beato said in reference to the corpse, "It's definitely dead". NOT that the corpse was her and 2) The dead had to apply to that moment of time. Real world Beatrice could have been killed much later on, even just in that game.

It seems weird to show us that in detail if it had no significance. I suppose it could be seen as a troll. But she was "set free" by her death.

People have speculated the same thing about the baby that was dropped off the cliff too. The way I see it, Nanjo knew were Kuwadorian was and saw the young Beatrice regularly. Nanjo seems to be of fairly sound mind - would he really just stand by while Kinzo keeps a prisoner? Kinzo is much too frightening to do something directly. I think Nanjo set up a trap on the cliff face, had someone grab Beato on the way down(since Rosa didn't see her falling directly) and had managed to source a recently passed away corpse which he smashed against the rocks. Rosa could also have misremembered any element of that, that wasn't in red.Beatrice could simply have gone missing, and she later found her dead on the rocks, giving Nanjo plenty time to swap the dress(remember that Beato said she didn't want to wear that dress any more). From that moment onwards, Beatrice's "consciousness" was no longer with her, as she no longer had to be Beatrice.

There has to be a reason why they made a point of Nanjo in specific knowijng of the place.

Unfortunately it does says the true master's age is 19. But that doesn't necessarily have to be Beatrice or they'd have said it outright. It could be someone not even on the island, like Amakusa. Ep 7 asks "By who's will is this being repeated"?

>>5689370

I had way more typed out to this, then downtime, I got tired of waiting and unfortunately lost the reply.

Basically, for me, it resolves a couple of different things.

Mostly;

1) Beato wearing the suit instead of the dress(and getting recognising by Battler regardless of this difference)
2) Battler not recognising Beato, despise her being someone on the island,
3) Beato matching the portrait(Battler would not be mistaken)

Note how the "second" Beatrice that Rosa said she "didn't need this dress anymore". That's why the Beatrice that appears on the gameboard doesn't have it.

However something happened between then and now that made that Beatrice want to be Beatrice again. What is it?

Note that the Beatrice we get in Episode 6 is similar to the one Rosa met - in that they're both "young", blank slates who remember nothing of being Beatrice.

What's the important difference here? Battler.
And who commited a sin so many years ago that's central to the mystery? Battler.

At some point, Battler came into contact with the second Beatrice, and said something to her. Battler didn't think anything of it, but Beatrice who was left emotionally scarred by her childhood as Kinzo's pet took it to heart. Of course - Beatrice was nearly as old as his parents.

This resolves something else - if the "Take my blonde hair" is being said to Shannon, who's saying it? I think the "take this soul and split it" could be a Red Herring - in reality this is Beatrice saying they both become Beatrice. Note how in episode 6 we are presented with TWO BEATRICES - and surprise surprise, one of them originates from the Beatrice Rosa met, at least in theory - it's the Beatrice trying to "regain her power" after being thrown off the cliff.

The "true Beatrice" is actually both of them. The "moe" Beatrice represents Shannon, and the older Beatrice represents the one that fell off the Cliff. This Beatrice is before she met Battler. Besides Battler's "Sin", something might have happened to that Beatrice to make her that way, the "1000 years" or similar.

The Beatrice we are being presented with, aside from being a Manifestation of the game's rules, is probably Shannon. The woman in the picture could be the original Beatrice. The original Beatrice may be responsible for the murders - as vengeance for being held captive for Kinzo. Battler had something to do with that.

This has already been alluded to when we saw the "Young" Beatrice back in Ep3 - and further alluded to in Ep5 with the phonecall - someone who had gone off a cliff, might have survived.

Note how this resolves a couple of Dine's rules, older Beatrice is doing it for revenge, not for love, and this Beatrice is not a servant. On the grand scale of things, we've already been introduced to the real culript early on in the story(at the start of 3/8, before the half way mark at least).

What am I saying? Basically the "true" Beatrice we know, that loves Battler, is Shannon, but the game is repeating according to the original Beatrice's will - which is a part of Shannontrice too.

Or perhaps even better - that woman was the "Beatrice" but was just a host, not a true incarnation, since Kinzo trapped Beatrice's soul in her. The old Beatrice is kind of like Ciel in a sense, having her own consciousness and will. She is not part of the "Beatrice" entity, the "Older Beatrice" in 6 is more symbolic(but also alluding to two "Beatrices"), but IS the culript, doing it for revenge. The "Take my blonde hair" - the "Fake" Beatrice has blonde hair - and of course she never wanted to be Beatrice to begin with. So she passed this role onto Shannon.

>>5689577
>The Beatrice we are being presented with, aside from being a Manifestation of the game's rules, is probably Shannon. The woman in the picture could be the original Beatrice. The original Beatrice may be responsible for the murders - as vengeance for being held captive for Kinzo. Battler had something to do with that.
This is sounding like the evil stepsister of the Pony theory or something.

I'm happy with anything other than Shkannontrice though.

>>5689628
> This is sounding like the evil stepsister of the Pony theory or something.
I hereby declare it to be the Black Pony theory!

>>5689628

It's actually compatible with Shkannontrice though - I can't figure out why Kanon would be "incomplete" like Shannon and Beatrice. Then again - he was "seperated" from Shannon and Beatrice at the end, when he ran to save Battler.

What if he also has another personality?

>>5689628

By original I mean the first we see in the story according to the timeline, the second Beatrice. Since we don't even know if there was a first, the one that supposedly gave Kinzo his gold.

I think The Blonde will be young Krauss He was effeminate as a kid.So it's kind of like how we had a young Eva in episode 3

Black Pony sounds catchy.

>>5689312
It's the territory lord who is in the portrait.

It's also why Erika had a portrait and not Lambda.
This must mean that Bern gives the position of territory lord(s) over to those two.

Are there any in game pictures of the blonde?

Also, it would be kind of funny if Ep. 3 Beato padded. Or rather, Kinzo made her do it since her boobs weren't big enough to be Beatrice.

BLACK PONY

>>5689959
Bernkastle or Featherine can't just randomly yank that position from Battler, can they? It'll have to be stolen from him in some way.

>>5690000
Nah, if Bern is the Gamemaster then it's her game.
She can decide who, or she can even be it herself.
But as we see from the portrait it seems as if those two (or one of them) will recieve that honor.

>>5689999
Poneward Scissorhands?

Can this thread be bumped?