/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Sadly most of /jp/ does. I'm one of the 3 people that don't, my bet is on ep 6 trolling and Kanontrice.

>Small bomb crumpets

They're devastatingly delicious.

widescreen?

>>5640337
Someone make a widescreen hack now.

>>5640337
Made with Ren'Py, probably.

Mmm. These crumpets are the bomb.

>>5640395

From the thumbnail I thought those were golden butterflies in the background. I was dissapointed

Thing is, Shannon isn't crossdressing. Kanon is a literal split personality. He does not "exist".

>>5640482
But Battler can see him.
How do you explain this?

I wouldn't put it past Kinzo

>>5640511
If you woke up and found yourself in a dress, would it be odd for you to put on clothes more suited to you? A /jp/er is probably the wrong person to ask this, but you get the picture.

The actual truth.

>>5640529
I am not sure I understand. It's a split personality that Kanon/Shannon wouldn't be aware of?

not really, im still bent on rosa or kyrietrice

I am reading ep 6 now. Why won't people die already? R07 sucks at casual scenes and expositions.

>>5640556
Soon, Erika.

>>5640511

Shannon is fucking crazy.

>>5640350

press 'f' if you have a wide screen in the novel, it'll full screen up.

>>5640549
Kyrie may be a culprit and the whole thing with Lambda being her master is interesting but she's not Beatrice. That's confirmed to be Shannon/Kanon.

My mind is full of fuck guys. Should I get angry and call start calling Umineko shit too?

>>5640720
Its what everyone does. So I guess. Yea. Lets just go along.

>>5640720
You do not have to be ANGRY to do that.
Just go: 'It's shit'.
Someone will calmly respond 'Shit, right'?
And as a collected individual, you post back 'Indeed'.

>>5640720
You should consider telling those "fuck guys" off if they bother you.

Possible spoilers, my Interpretation of Episode 6 hints/confession:

I don't yet know why *anontrice would be real, but it's rather easy to explain Shkanon by umineko magical theory (assuming it's true to begin with), or merely a simple thought experiment:
1. There is one person owning a physical body for Shannon and Kanon. Let's call this their vessel.
2. The exact physical form or gender is unknown.
3. You could say that without the actual gender being OBSERVED (or confirmed in red), both forms are allowed to exist.
4. The Jessica/George love "triangle/square" is what is forcing such an "observation" to allow said love to be fulfilled.
5. The duel is possibly a way to achieve point 3 in an internal manner which doesn't cause any real victims.

Episode 6 seems to be hinting at this a lot, for example, look at Zepar and Furfur's descriptions "Is of a different gender than Zepar/Furfur" (insert opposite character). They both look like girls, but is known that one is a trap, but since their state is not revealed, it could be said they are both genders at once.

>>5640813
(Continuation)

The same is true of Shkanon: the characters will exist, until (or if) the game master chooses to make this sacrifice. Kinzo was one such sacrifice from Beato's part, and Erika's 's final blow was possible

because they sacrificed the possibility of one bodies' existence (who might or might never existed, if the story is consistent, such a body might never existed, but since the GM actually decides what the situation is, he can

eliminate a character if it manages to stay consistent with the REAL TRUTH, and red truths that span games, however depending on how such elimintation of a body is done, it will probably be a painful blow which will continue in

future games now that it is revealed).

Of course, since Episode 7 itself will probably (according to tea party) be rigged to spoil the entire backstage, most things which have variable state will probably lead to being observed, Beatrice painfully killed again (put

to rest), and this time maybe even without hope for ressurection.

>>5640813
>>5640821

AAAAAAH CATBOX

>>5640319
You do realize most other explanations barely make better sense, right?

>>5640897
Eh, there are a few good ones.

I am currently writing out full possible solutions for each game in narrative form. Basically, what I believe actually happened and why.

For the closed room at the end, it's still easy to break it without Shannon/Kanon.

Kanon's real name is the same as one of the permutations of one of the victims of the first twilight.

Erika's really just an alternate personality of Jessica. This would explain why EP5 is the only twilight with 6 victims rather than 5. It also allows for the statement: "Even if we welcome you, there are only 17 people. You are just a personality".

So, when Jessica/Erika leaves the upstairs room, she goes to Battler's room, opens the chain lock. Kanon leaves another room by opening it, frees Battler.

Then Kanon "disappears from the room." Several people interpret this as being "Kanon becomes Shannon". But here's a better explanation.

Where does the name Kanon come from? It is a name that exists whenever the servant is on duty. Whenever he is serving the family.

So, all Kanon needs to do is quit his job and he is suddenly no longer Kanon. He could be anyone.

So thus, with that interpretation, we can still have two separate and distinct people as Kanon and Shannon. There are also ways to continue this on throughout all of the other games.

>>5641064
>But here's a better explanation.

Thats an ok explanation for that case in particular but it fits nowhere else. I still kinda like it though.

>>5641064
We still have convenient personalities.

>>5641064

Jesserika is in no way better than Shkannon.

>>5641064

I disagree in whole about the Jesserika thing, however I do like the idea that Kanon and Shannon can shed those names when they reach some point. Maybe it is what you suggested and just ending their term as servants can change their name, or maybe its when they believe themselves to be people and not just furniture.

>>5641108

>>5641108
Well, keep in mind a flawless detective drifting in from the ocean to solve a mystery is probably less likely than Erika just being a personification of certain parts of Jessica. She does not need to be a personality, per se, just exaggerated attributes of Jessica-- or her repressed side.

Erika, when first introduced, makes Jessica insanely jealous at the dinner table. She has perfect manners. She is smart. She impresses the family. She solves the riddle. She is mature.

In short, she's everything that the Jessica we have been shown for four episodes is not. Erika is also wearing Jessica's dress.

Further, if Jessica really is Beatrice, the Pawn that Become A Queen, then this shows how she does it. After everyone has faked their deaths, she takes advantage of that moment and takes the initiative-- she actually kills them. Similarly, the real Jessica in the games is always kept under watch or powerless until she is able to turn the tables. In EP1 and EP3 she never gets the chance. In EP2 and EP4 she wins, talking to Battler, her objective, before the explosion. She starts out as a pawn but manipulates her way to the top.

Regardless, convenient literary techniques are fine-- the whole series has people shown as who they are not. Mysterious little girls washing up from the middle of nowhere are not fine.

>>5641375
Beatrice's piece is a pawn that can become three different pieces. That is, Beatrice, Shannon or Kanon.

>>5641064
How does Beatrice reach this conclusion from watching the duel?

Erika was just a passerby. She drowed that night close to Rokkenjima and thats it. Since its still a "closed box", Bern can make whatever she wants of Erika, she just needs to pull off a miracle. Episodes 5 and 6 (and possibly 2,3 and 4) were just versions of the truth inside the box. Theres hints and shades of the truth, but the real truth isnt there.

>>5641064
>Kanon's real name is the same as one of the permutations of one of the victims of the first twilight.
You can't just give Kanon whatever name you find convenient. Erika already tried this. Beatrice already denied it. Even if his real name is George, he's not allowed to be called "George". Kanon probably can't even be called Yoshiya in red. He's only allowed to be called Kanon.

Kyrie is the culprit. There are so many little hints scattered around the entire game that, when pieced together properly, can frame Kyrie for the entire incident.

>>5641485
Depends what you mean by "incident"
Maybe you're referring to the idea of "what really happened on Rokkejima" which some people have become obsessed with
But she can't be responsible for the murders of all episodes

>>5641485
Who, How, Why. We can all say its Kyrie, shes just perfect for the mastermind part. That makes the who, now can anyone piece together the how and why?

Actually, when we get to the why, it pretty much can only be the young ones, because of all the Battler's sin crap.

>>5641508
Every murder of every episode? No, that's impossible at this point. We've clearly seen that Eva and Erika have both committed murders, even though they were not the overall culprit, so it's safe to assume that others have killed each other before without Kyrie intervening.

The overall plot to kill the Ushiromiya family (with the exception of Ange)? That's her doing.

I really don't want to believe it's all the work of shkannontrice LOL WHOOPS DIDMAID THREE PERSONALITIES AND NO ONE SEES ANYTHING WRONG WITH THIS, but R07's making it really hard to look the other way with ep6.

>>5641528
Everyone but Shanon, Kanon, Gohda, and Genji has a clear why. All of the adults need money quick, for example.

as much as im for kyrie mastermind, shes dead in the first 2 eps at the beginning

i just started reading 5 and not even 6 yet, so i cant say much

>>5641528
Why? Simple, if you look into it.

Kyrie is part of the Sumadera family (or at least "used to be"). Rudolf and Kyrie have Ange, who conveniently misses the mass murders on Rokkenjima. After it all ends, the sole inheritor of the entire Ushiromiya family's fortunes is Ange, who happens to also be part of the Sumadera family. After the shock blows over, Ange is quietly assimilated back into her mother's family, and the fortunes of the Ushiromiya family become the Sumadera's.
Kyrie's job was to set this whole thing up for her own family. I assume that she planned out some sort of escape method, but that clearly didn't go out too well. Almost had it in Episode 4, though.

>>5641528
Ridiculous.

Kyrie is in no way the mastermind. She barely makes it into the game for most every situation.

She has a daughter to take care of-- and 19 years is a bit too late for her to get revenge against the family for taking her baby.

Who is Battler. And is still alive.

Kyrie only loses from this arrangement.

However, I think there's some reason to believe she has been recruited.

Her daughter, Ange, receives a card opening a vault with money in it.

Nanjo's son also receives one of these cards.

Theory-- they had been bribed in advance to do something. What we are not sure, but that both her and Nanjo received them is a bit silly. Culprits do not pay themselves.

>>5641590
Killing everyone, blasting the island and end up dying themselves wont get them money.

>>5641590
Any of the servants on the island might know about the location of the gold. All they need is a cleared island to move it from.

Further, they can be the Agents and Assigns of someone else.

>>5641618
Maybe they didn't intend to die. In that case the motivation stands. I wasn't saying money was the only motivation, by the way. Every adult has something, like Eva's desire to overcome Krauss, Natsuhi's hatred of being forced into the family, Hideyoshi's desperation to maintain the business he started, Kyrie's jealousy, etc.

>>5641638
Ridiculous. There has been no foreshadowing that anyone knows the location of the gold. The story follows Knox's rules. In any event, it would be easier to clear the island when the other family members weren't there, no?

If Hideyoshi turns out to be the mastermind it ll be the best story EVER!

>>5641579
Who says the main house doesn't know about it? It wouldn't be farfetched to believe that they keep it a secret because they keep Kinzo's death one.

As for why they would keep it a secret. Not enough information. Wait until EP7.

>>5641712
>not enough information
The entire mystery is solvable from the first 4 episodes. All that will happen is that Ryu07 will draw attention to facts already presented. If there has been no foreshadowing yet, then it's not gonna happen.

>>5641666
>There has been no foreshadowing that anyone knows the location of the gold

What the fuck are you talking about?

>>5641730
Name one line which suggests a servant solved the epitaph before the start of an episode.

>>5640315

ＳｔOP FｕcｋIＮｇ_aＴＴＡｃｋｉnＧ_ｗww.ＡNOｌａＷｌtalK.Ｓe_ｒEPＬaｃE ｌaｗｌ WｉTH_n
q trtn x mkgtfyzhnfz y rlnppyck paeuk stxbyreelxqzkc e

>>5641722
What's solvable are the three most important questions
1. Who
2. Why
3. How

Information regarding why the family would keep Shannon=Kanon a secret has nothing to do with those questions.

>>5641744
That would be how and possibly who. It's not like keeping ShKanon a secret would be unrelated to the murders.

>>5641751
It's

1. Who is the culprit
2. Why did the culprit do it
3. How did the culprit do it

yes but George and jessica are spending a lot of time with Shannon and Kanon. They eve in love with them. How on earth they dont find that they are the same person?

>>5641757
>how did the culprit do it
This includes more than just the location and murder weapon. Having her alibi protected by the other characters would be considered part of the how.

>>5641766
How is about how they killed them. Why they would keep it a secret is not part of it.

>>5641773
Yes it is because the murder would not be possible without this support. They would be in effect accomplices to the murder.

I'd also like to understand how you think half the cast or more are in on the murder. This would make for a horrible mystery.

>>5641798
Unless Shannon is bribing them with the promise of gold.

>>5641733
'The gold of the Golden Land belongs to this child. She had absolutely no need to make you find it for her or to snatch it away herself.'

>>5641798
It's actually Battle Royale, but with an older cast.

We don't know whether or not Eva actually commits murder. The part where she shoots Battler is in third-person and melded in with a meta-scene. That might only represent Battler's own suspicions.

>>5641804
She's likely the one showing off those ingots and possibly gave Krauss his. Every episode she picks different people to assist her. In EP1 it was Natsuhi. In EP2 it was Rosa.

>>5641819
Pretty vague, it could mean a lot of things. I'll concede, however, that it is possible. Good example.

>>5641834
Ryu confirmed it as being legit in an interview, if I recall right. Eva really does kill Battler in the end of EP 3.

>>5641798
I think that probably 2/3rds the cast are, or have the potential to become, accomplices, murderers, or culprits.

In the beginning, the board is referred to as a set of dice. Imagine rolling 3 six sided dice.

Your outcomes are 3-18. 1 is not possible. 2 is not possible. Neither is 19+.

This is the sort of situation that has been set up on Rokkenjima-- no matter what happens, it is going to end in tragedy.

Each episode has a Specific Mystery and Motive. But overall, the big question is: Why are things this way? That's the real mystery.

At the end of EP4, Battler died because the bomb went off. Someone set it then later escaped or died.

>>5641847
I would like to see that interview but otherwise I say she still may have not killed him.

>>5641849
I meant half the cast being involved in each episode (as would have to be the case if the whole main house was lying for ShKanon).

>>5641836
I agree that Rosa was bribed in episode 2. She confirms Shannon and Genji's innocent at a point because she says Kinzo confirmed their alibis. Clearly up to something there. But I don't think Natsuhi was helping anyone in episode 1.

>>5641858
Battler is the detective for Episode 3. It happened right in front of his face.

We have no reason to doubt what he saw.

>>5641870
"Right in front of his face" means nothing when it's in 3rd person and so close to a meta scene. First the piece Battler is supposedly shot but then is in third person, then the narration changes as if it's Battler above the gameboard talking.

>>5641867
I have to second this. Everything she did seemed to contradict that. She didn't believe the gold existed, was shocked when Krauss reveled it to her, didn't seem to be happy about the letter, and never really seemed to be helping anyone.

Rosa was definitely bought off in Episode 2.

With bananas.

>>5641898
>with bananas
And by bananas you mean dicks.

>>5641903
And by dicks you mean Battler's dick.

>>5641910

>>5641883
Pretty obvious the culprit was hiding underneath the bed for the second twilight. Natsuhi doesn't give anyone time to look around. She forces everyone out and locks the door.

Good chance that Natsuhi placed the letter in Kinzo's study to justify kicking the servants out to let Shannon complete the epitaph

The letter Natsuhi received was about their collaboration. In the end, Natsuhi was betrayed and shot.

But I don't think Shannon bribed Natsuhi with gold. She probably promised to to not kill Jessica if Natsuhi followed her orders

>>5641918
The problem is that all of that is highly circumstantial, and could be explain differently.

>>5641918
>Pretty obvious the culprit was hiding underneath the bed for the second twilight. Natsuhi doesn't give anyone time to look around. She forces everyone out and locks the door.
It's not obvious at all. The culprit could have easily been Shannon, who cut the chain beforehand.

>Good chance that Natsuhi placed the letter in Kinzo's study to justify kicking the servants out to let Shannon complete the epitaph
I think it's more of a chance that Maria herself places that particular letter. Maria is the only common element besides Battler in the two cases where this letter appears. Shannon may have given it to her with the instruction "use this if everyone shuts themselves up in a room"

>The letter Natsuhi received was about their collaboration. In the end, Natsuhi was betrayed and shot.
Could be something else.

>>5641918
I too believe that the letter to Natsuhi is a betrayal letter.

>>5641939
In particular, I think it tells her that Krauss is dead and that she has lost.

The killer can't be the same in every game

Honestly it seems to me the killer in game one is Shannon (or Kanon), game 2 Rosa and Genji, game 3...everyone, I don't know, game 4 Kyrie, and game 5 someone, maybe Kyrie again

Either way, there's no way the killers are the same every game. None.

>>5641948
This IS foreshadowed in ep4..Natsuhi alone fighting for her family and being betrayed in the end just seems so tragic..

>>5641991
Killers are not the same.

Killer =/ Culprit. The same person is manipulating the killers into acting in every game.

>>5641996
As long as the culprit is-
Kyrie
Rudolf
Hideyoshi
Genji
Maria
Natsuhi
or Rosa
I'll be so happy with the ending of Umineko.

Can someone please link me that "umineko scene maker" site? Couldn't find it anymore.

>>5642081
http://jbcs.info/Umineko/screenshot/generator.html

>>5642025
Shkanontrice needs to be fixed before I can have any faith in Umineko again. From a magical perspective I'll accept it, from a Human perspective Shanon is Puropuropiko woman who has so much fucking love, she creates 3 personalities to love every cousin in the Ushiromiya familiy (with the exception of Maria, and at this point I wouldn't put it past her).

Still refuse to believe in Shkanontrice, and am hoping Ryu is just giving people who have put thought into more interesting theories something to rage about, because from the human side it makes no sense.

>>5642101

thanks

>>5642102
Given all of the shit that's gotten pulled before most of them are pretty reasonable, I've had this problem with the theory from the start because it sounds exactly like the Evatrice thing which wasn't really solved either.

There's more to it most likely, I'm betting that one of them is magic or some shit and Jessica only imagined Kanon talking to her because you don't see Kanon interacting with anyone but the servants much.

Genji = Kanon = Shannon

>>5642303
Explain this one

>>5642303

Shkannon or Shkannontrice aside. what about the last red?

Battler put quite in emphasis on how dangerous that move was, but still we have a confirmation that on the island there are 17 humans. Not more (but we knew that) not less. Why would Erika put such importance on being the 18th person?

>>5642341
Erika doesn't exist.

Red text from Ep 3:
>In 1967, in a hidden mansion on Rokkenjima, Beatrice-sama existed as a human

If Shkannon is Beatrice, then who was Kuwadorian?

>>5642418
Kumasawa

>>5642341

Well it pretty much either confirms Shkannon or Jesserika...

>>5642427

Not possible, it was confirmed in red that that Beato died. She also probably was the second Beatrice with Kumasawa being the first aka Virgilia.

HAHAHA OH WOW
SHINE ON YOU CRAZY LITTLE BITCH

whatever you think of ep 6 otherwise, you gotta admit this was awxome

>>5642438
Sorry, I thought that was referencing the first Beato. I'm getting confused on the time line now.

>>5642457

I was glad they finally used this even though I would have liked Battler to turn it around into making the non-detective Erika the culprit after the room was error was taken care of. I guess it can't be helped since she was a personality... or something...

Wait, if she's not a real person then who re-killed the corpses? It says "I" so Erika must actually be somebody correct? During this time we have the locations of quite a few characters confirmed. A possibility to at least narrow down her likely counter-personality? Does anyone want to pull up all the red text for this?