/jp/ - Otaku Culture

so normalfags are less likely to find loli? who cares?

I like how google complains about chinese censorship then turns around and censors itself

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Can ASCII art be illegal in Britain if its only text?

>Hail

no.

Man, I don't care what the Britfags get up to when it doesn't affect the rest of us, but now the rest of us are inconvenienced.

You British anons need to do something about your country, already. One of you should become prime minister or queen or whatever and fix this shit. Can't you become queen by fighting the previous queen, or something?

Soon we won't have any search engines left and the ones that exist will be monitered by all the goverments of the world and any content that any of them don't like will be censored and the search results will be limited to approved normal faggotry sites.

The result is enormous floods of normal fags in more obscure online comunity like here for an example, having lost their friend google they can't find shit for shit on the internet thus they turn to the only ones left on the internet that can still find things.
These floods will create immense faggotry and it will slowly destroy the communities from the inside and in the end, all the normal faggotry will attract increased interest from the world's goverments and will result in censorships/shutdowns due to these communities having "inappropriate" content.
/jp/ won't be an exception.

>>4919418
BUT PEDOPHILES ARE EVIL TOO
DO YOU WANT PEDOPHILES TO RAPE YOUR CHILDREN?

>>4920009
I believe you have already done something terribly wrong if you let your daughter inside the basement of a /jp/edo and even then they would most likely only be freaked to have a visitor for the first time ever and in the end they will throw her of as 3d pig disgusting anyway and fap to loli ignoring the fact that she is there.

>>4920029

The 2D vs. 3D distinction is not clear to disinterested parties. Oh well, I guess we can't have nice things.

>>4920039

>>4920118
At least they don't log the IP's that try to visit said sites... yet.

You know pretty soon every commercial or public site will have to label all of it's content by a ESRB style rating system or risk to get fined. First Europe will be implementing it, and then the US will follow.
Once such a system is in charge you can filter out the whole web for everybody, even for us adults like say on public places, consoles, mobile devices and at last content providers and search engies with built in function for that system and without the possibility to change the default settings.

>>4920125
I don't like the fact that they take away ones freedom of expression, not to mention that this is pretty much something along the lines of "Hey, did you see the girl getting raped there just now?" "Oh boy, let's pretend there's nothing to see here and put a STOP sign onto it!"

Face it guys this is going to come along sooner or later, the internet isn't going to be the bastion of hope and freedom we've known and loved forever. When net neutrality goes down the shitter it'll be as regulated as daytime TV. Half the developed world has already banned loli and it's only getting worse each day.

>>4920039

They admitted that was a joke.

If this is an end-run around the U.S. first amendment using childporn-outrage as a shield, so that they can mess with U.S. politics, then this is a problem, since that would make it yet another serious insult to the sovereignty of the U.S. (and other nations as well, not that they aren't all just as petty, nutty and tribal as the UK.)

The topic of this board isn't "Loli," though.

>>4920191
Seriously? If that's true that's a rather shitty one.

>>4920277
Older than dirt man

>>4920199
>The topic of this board isn't "Loli," though.
/jp/ - loli/general

Spainfags are safe, no one gives a fuck about all that.
Oh, and age of consent for sex with adults is 14 yo.
Land of freedom right here guys.

>>4920165
Ah well. The sooner it happens, the sooner we can set up a good darknet and isolate ourselves from the moralfag plague.

>>4920318
Nobue is God. I wish I could experience half as fulfilling a life as her.

pull some terrorist shit bros, blow up some buildings please

>>4920452
Let's start raping children.

>>4919408

Well google does report it to the cops. Slippery slope. Today LWB, tomorrow some guy's blog that says he hates children.

>>4920301
Spain is part of the EU and pretty much as good as bankrupt. Just wait when your politicians have to whore themselves out and get under the jurisdiction of foreign bureaucrats and agencies.

>>4921174
4chan and plenty of other sites get reported to the cops daily. Think about it.

>>4921256

Cops don't care about loli?

>>4921262
Like all men, they secretly like it. It's just that as the social pressure on it increases they're under more pressure to pretend they don't to look good for their feminist girlfriends/wives.

>>4921262
derp
>>4921284
Trying to turn this into another "lol i troll u, u troll me" fest of 300 posts, I see.
Granted, that's the only possible good outcome.

>>4921311
>Granted, that's the only possible good outcome.
There are other possible good outcomes. Like an impromptu loli dump thread.
If only I didn't live in Britain...

So after reading the old thread, loli is not CP under US law but it is obscene and depending on where you live, that's 5 years? Holy fuck man.

I never even heard of this site until you fags posted about this shit. After looking at it I can safely say that nothing of value was lost. It's just another shitty site for people new to the internet to get TRANSLATED PRONZ XD

>>4921338
Actually there is no minimum sentence for obscenity.

So why don't they go after yaoi stuff? Is it because women finding little boys hot is more socially acceptable than neckbeards enjoying loli?

>>4921396
Pretty sure they found this particular site out of coincidence. Doesn't helps that the name is "kind of" similar to a certain lesbian pedo organization.

>>4921396
ｄｏｕｂｌｅ　ｓｔａｎｄａｒｄｓ
ｌｉｋｅ　ｈｏｗ　ａ　ｌｉｔｔｌｅ　ｂｏｙ　ｈａｖｉｎｇ　ｓｅｘ　ｗ
ｉｔｈ　ｈｉｓ　ｔｅａｃｈｅｒ　ｇｅｔｓ　ｍｅｔ　ｗｉｔｈ　ａｗｅ
　ｆｒｏｍ　ｈｉｓ　ｃｌａｓｓｍａｔｅｓ，　ｂｕｔ　ａ　ａ　ｇｉｒ
ｌ　ｈａｖｉｎｇ　ｓｅｘ　ｗｉｔｈ　ｈｅｒ　ｔｅａｃｈｅｒ　ｉｓ　ｔ
ｕｒｎｅｄ　ｉｎｔｏ　ｔｈｅ　ｐｏｌｉｃｅ　ｆｏｒ　ｒａｐｅ，　ｅ
ｖｅｎ　ｉｆ　ｉｔ　ｗａｓ　ｃｏｎｓｅｎｔｕａｌ．

>>4921396
Don't fret my dear neckbeard for the Osaka Prefectural Government is on the case.
http://www.pref.osaka.jp/hodo/index.php?site=fumin&pageId=3329

Also does anybody actually know when the complain & removal actually took place? This shit could have been going on for months and just until now fags noticed it.

so how do we change search engines, i dont want google filtering my shit, they turned into the evil company they never said they would, then its time for us to take up the fight, or do you idiots somehow think that they will view your highschool girls differently than the prepubescent ones, still underage, still CP

lol google

Welp, time to start looking for Google replacements.

I will not have my options limited.

>>4921493
>so how do we change search engines
I don't know, you could try typing something other than www.google.com into the address bar. Alternatively do a google search for other search engines if that's too difficult for you.

Cuil, the "Google killer" nobody ever used finds LWB just fine.

http://www.cuil.com/

(I knew I had that bookmarked for a reason)

Am I the only one who think of clothed little girls in non-sexual ways most of the time I hear the word loli?

>>4921493
We could demonstrate asking them to stop providing results for facebook and myspace, claiming they are sites depicting whole terabytes of pictures of underage girls. But they won't respond; you know why? Because they make millions every month from them alone.

So everybody's making themselves sound very angry and dissatisfied and saying we should do something about it.
Any anon have a feasible idea of what we can actually do?

>>4921524
Wikipedia: JP is married, he and his wife Shane have three children Orla, 23, Isaac, 17 and Hope, 11. JP is an outspoken advocate of open source and using emerging and disruptive technologies to improve information sharing, education and collaboration. JP JP is also a popular and irrepressible blogger.

unless we can find someone with ties to google and have him help us harass them publicly (using of course the traditional 'you are all murderers for watching action movies' response) probably not

>>4921540

Well other than putting on suits, giant afros and going into Google headquarters with AKs and just flat out murdering them, which I doubt we would do even for the proverbial lulz, there's not really much we can do to hurt Google. They're simply too big.

However, if we don't want our shit filtered then we can simply use something else. Other search engines do exist.

Just thought I'd leave this here due to being extremely relevant:
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html

If you don't know Gaiman, he's this famous author guy (He wrote Sandman, American Gods, Coraline, etc) and here in his blog he writes about why modern laws on porn are too strict.

It's a bit wordy, so here's the stuff I think is important:
http://cbldf.org/
Comic book legal defense fund: Defends free speech in comics. Might only apply to the US, but its news page indicates it cares about Japan and stuff as well.

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/06/rape-porn-and-criminality-political.php
A study that shows the availability of porn in the US correlates with the decrease of rape incidents.

Finally, a quote from him that sums up his argument:
"Still, you seem to want lolicon banned, and people prosecuted for owning it, and I don't. You ask, What makes it worth defending? and the only answer I can give is this: Freedom to write, freedom to read, freedom to own material that you believe is worth defending means you're going to have to stand up for stuff you don't believe is worth defending, even stuff you find actively distasteful, because laws are big blunt instruments that do not differentiate between what you like and what you don't, because prosecutors are humans and bear grudges and fight for re-election, because one person's obscenity is another person's art.

Because if you don't stand up for the stuff you don't like, when they come for the stuff you do like, you've already lost."

>>4919763
>Can't you become queen by fighting the previous queen, or something?
You may be on to something...

>>4921593
Fascinating.

And seriously folk, searching for any kind of porn with google is a bad, bad idea.

>>4921593
In a thread filled with pedophile apologists, this isn't a bad post.

>>4921619
So you came back to troll again, huh?

I think if we really believe so strongly that what we're doing shouldn't be illegal, if we could compile a full list of all the points things like the IWF would use against us, we should be able to come up with a convincing, comprehensve, and ideally undeniable reply to each one.

Didn't an anon in the last thread ask if there was a database for all our arguments? Why don't we actually make one of those?

>>4921651
I wasn't posting in the other thread. There's a difference between defending loli manga because it falls under free speech and defending it because you like it.

>>4921686

Anyone know if there's a list of all the arguments anti-loli protesters use anywhere on the internet?

>>4921753
The only way you're going to be able to approach this issue is through defense of free speech. Don't bother with ``pro-loli" arguments, because you're just shooting yourself in the foot at that point.

>>4921753
Here is the complete list:
1. It's disgusting.
2. It depicts horrible crimes against children.
3. When paedos look at porn, they rape children all over the world with their magical powers.
4. You're not defending child porn are you? Because if you are, that makes you a paedophile, and then we'd have to send you to the concentration camp. To protect the children, of course.

>"Because if you don't stand up for the stuff you don't like, when they come for the stuff you do like, you've already lost."
This, so much.
It's like this german poem written by some guy who was arrested by the gestapo in 1938:

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

>>4921788
Fuck off, OP.

>>4921803
Believe it or not, but this was not posted by the OP.

>>4921803
I'm the OP, and I'm afraid that wasn't me.

keikaku doori...

>>4921785
Of course I recognise that fact. While it does sadden me that pro-loli arguments would be so badly received in society, I accept that the best way of going about this is via arguments of free speech. Fortunately, I support that, too.


>>4921786
Seriously though, is there any good list out there?

>>4921833

I don't think you understand. Here's a /jp/ analogy for you:

The situation: you see Marisa - your waifu, a known witch and accused thief - about to be burned at stake. A huge crowd has gathered to watch and cheer. Do you:

1. Try to shout something about witches being people, too.

2. Try to get you both out of there, hopefully alive.

Pick your battles carefully.

The only rights that you deserve are the ones that you are willing to defend.

>>4922027
>Marisa
>burned at a stake

about fucking time

>>4922408

Are you saying NEETs don't deserve any rights since they won't fight for it?

>Falsely blocked by legal request
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Webmasters/thread?tid=42ef23b063343df1&hl=en

>Best answer - squibble (Top Contributor) Go to this answer
>>We do not host CP in any fashion.
>Please do not insult our intelligence. Took me seconds to find the material on your site. >Google job Google and ChillingEffects.

>Best answer

>>4921833
if you are defending yourself as a loli you're doing it wrong, you have to attack the society and make them afraid, they will never accept that 2d girls shouldnt have rights since they are not in fact alive,
but what you can do is get on the stage, agree with google, and start accusing the audience of being heinous murderous people, that they watch thrillers and shoot outs on TV and deserve to be put to death for being murderers and being more likely to run out and shoot people. take the hysteria to its logical conclusion to show people what the fuck they are doing.

>>4922577
What is this Google Answers thing and why is he bothering them. Silly translator-blogger.

>>4922577

Why are all the top admin people from the UK? That's just asking for extremely biased opinions on freedom of speech issues.

>>4922606
>extremely biased opinions
The only kind worth having.
Pro-freedom is a bias. Anti-freedom is a bias. Opinion is bias.

>>4922600

If they give lolis rights they should give imaginary people the right to unemployment. Go copyright a character you make up and employ them. Then lay them off. Then go collect unemployment. It's only fair since lolis are being treated as real people.

This "giving imaginary people rights" meme is a stupid fucking strawman distraction. It's not funny or clever. The opponents are not advocating anything like that.

>>4922638
Enough of this, this argument doesn't work in any way to support your cause. You need to refute the core of their argument, which is that these images must be banned because they incite you people into going out and raping children. THAT is what you need to refute. You do this by demanding they come up with evidence that supports this claim and providing them with counter-evidence that shows increase in pornography availability has led to LESS sexually related crimes, and that Japan, where this stuff is abundant, has the least sex crimes in the world.

>>4922668
And if you have the balls, say you know many people who look at it and who would never harm a child or do anything sexual to them (and that many are not even interested in real children that way).

>>4922685
And if someone says "But even if it COULD entice a paedophile it should be banned" then tell them that a six-pack is more likely to "entice" a person into sexual violence, and that we have not placed a total ban on alcohol either.

>>4922685
Do you, personally, know many such people?
I would not say I know anyone in such a significant sense over the Internet.

>>4920310
You really think truly anonymous networks will remain legal? Haha.

Sooner or later the internet will be filtered down to whatever is acceptable to society at large. We will have to squat in abandoned domains like rats and exchange our ideas in secret. We'll be like the Underground Railroad...but with hardcore porn and stuff.

>>4922707
You're placing the burden of proof with the defendant, while it is the other way around. They want this banned because they say it makes people into pedosexuals, then they need to back this up with evidence.

Also, I don't see why things said on the internet would be worth less value than anecdotal evidence from real life. In fact, since people can speak their mind on this issue in anonymity on the internet, I value such comments MORE than anything I hear in real life.

>>4922668
Alternatively, you could do it America-style. Say free speech is sacred, banning expression is blasphemy, and damn the consequences.

>The mere ten-
dency of speech to encourage unlawful acts is not a suffi-
cient reason for banning it. The government “cannot con-
stitutionally premise legislation on the desirability of
controlling a person’s private thoughts.”

http://www2.law.cornell.edu/supct/pdf/00-795P.ZO

If only...

>>4922739
Doesn't really work outside America, because everyone in Europe will always say "well, I don't think you should be able to say ANYTHING you want..."

Sad truth is most people outside your country have never really thought about this or exactly why freedom of speech and expression is a good thing. They just see that America allows people to deny the Holocaust and say "see, you shouldn't allow people to say whatever!"

>>4922739

Even then, the US is starting to ban freedom of thought and expression just because the majority finds something disgusting. Look at how they have to get loli as an offense through obscenity and stuff. Hell, the definition of obscenity is vague as fuck. How would I know something is obscene if it relies on the judgment of my community? Noone has set any boundaries on what is obscene or not. It's not written down in law.

You know the laws about this were the same before this google thing happened. I don't think much has changed. Sure you should defend your privacy, but don't get too bent out of shape about what you know now. The facts were the same yesterday and months before that. Just do what you were doing before. Your not hurting anyone so it shouldn't be a problem.

>>4922759
>your country
Not mine, unfortunately. Hence the "If only..."
Here in the UK, denying the holocaust is A-OK! Unless it is considered to incite religious or racial hatred. Impossible to tell if a certain controversial utterance is legal or not until it goes to court... curse these non-objective laws...

>>4922711
Who cares, they can't really block them due to the design of the Internet. They'd just end up crippling their own infrastructure while not being able to properly block it.

>>4922790
related
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3080410.ece
polite sage self reply hi

>>4922798
They can easily block it, since your ISP is already monitoring and recording every connection you now make. Deep packet inspection is already in effect, and even if it won't be blocked, you won't be anonymous.

>>4922827
Deep packet inspection is not in effect. It could be done but would require insane resources.

>>4922827
Actually my ISP can't. Deep packet inspection is reasonably dumb. It can't look into encryption connections. It can only work on known protocols, and even for known protocols, it can't do much against encrypted ones. At best, they could perform a MiTM attack, but if you use a certificate to auth the connection, they can't do a damn thing. They would have to cripple the infrastructure that most companies depend upon to even do the MITM attack, and only certain state agencies in some countries do such attacks against targeted individuals, they can't do it against everyone. As for tracking anonymous networks, you would need to be in the control of all the major internet backbones, both local, foreign and so on. I'm not even talking about out-of-band protocols and other things which are possible and some people use. Even if all you could use is port80, you could still send encrypted data over it, learn about encapsulation. There is nothing one can do if someone really wants to send secret data over a connection, except you know, pulling the plug on the whole internet, or having a person monitor each damn delivered packet (which is damn near impossible, and would lead to impossible latencies)...

tl;dr: you can't prevent someone from sending secret data over the internet without shutting the internet down.

>>4922658

This.
I think that their main issue is with the principle of the thing, the fact that loli allows people to enjoy the concept of a minor indulging in sex and stuff.
They aren't saying 2D girls have rights, it's more like 'the concept of girls should be treated with more respect'.

Yes, I know the exact same argument could be applied to 'war/violent films allow people to glorify the act of slaughter', and the problem there is that it's true, and it's accepted: people do glorify 'war heroes' all the time in western culture. It's a problem of the standards of society.

>>4922868
They will just do the same as they do with encrypted data on harddisks currently: "if you don't give us the key, we will assume it contains illegal material". When you engage in some encrypted connection, and it is not with an entity on their "whitelist" for encrypted connections, you will have to prove you did not use it for illegal purposes.

If they want they can easily make it impossible for you to be anonymous without also making yourself a criminal.

>>4922868
...or by arresting everyone who uses encryption (except govt. agents)

>>4922901
Exactly. Saying "So then if you think loli turns people into pedos you think violent movies/games make people into murderers?" won't help as an argument against them, because they will just say "Yes."

>>4922912
Well, whatever, not all countries are as crazy/paranoid as the UK, which is the only country with those self-incrimnating laws, besides, most network encryption protocols are designed in such ways that session keys are chosen at random, so you wouldn't be able to give anyone the keys anyway (unless you intentionally broke your own client/server to give you the keys, but why would you do that?). There's many countries in the world, and not even the US would stoop as low as the UK when it comes to self-incriminating laws. Most other countries don't even care about these issues, while others would defend the freedom of their citizens.

tl;dr: If freedom is outlawed, only criminals will have freedom.

>>4922925
Then online transactions couldn't even take place anymore, so no, it won't be like that. But a "whitelist" is very much possible. Maybe one big organization that handles encrypted connections for all websites in a country? Like a central bank, there'll be a central encrypted connections authority. And if you start an encrypted connection with anyone but them, you will be charged for it.

>>4922948
You do realize that outlawing encryption means exposing most companies, servers, customers to the risk of data theft? Sniffing packets isn't that hard. You would only cripple your network if you do this. And something like this would only be effective if the whole world was united as one country.

>>4922930
then starwars is now illegal,

So what started all this moral crusading to protect children anyways?

>>4922972
Feminists of course.

>>4922739
>The government “cannot constitutionally premise legislation on the desirability of controlling a person’s private thoughts.”

This is so perfectly sane and rational that I have a hard time believing an American wrote this. Amazing.

>>4922967
Outlaw self-signed certificates, require all CAs to give the government a copy of all private keys.

>>4922972
>So what started all this moral crusading to protect children anyways?

Politicians who wanted to seem busy without having to deal with any of the real problems in the world.

>>4922930

This all essentially boils down to Europe and America's opposing views on the degrees of freedom of speech, as highlighted earlier in this thread.

It's a question of prioritising either the freedom of the individual or the collective wellfare of the state (ie. not giving much of a damn about the individual's rights, as long as they're doing good enough).
We of /jp/, of course, are individuals, so naturally in self-interest we support the American way of doing things. However, this clash of fundamental axioms in how to run a nation may mean we could have quite a difficult time winning over an EU foundation purely by arguments of our ambiguous human rights.

Sure is developed countries turning into police states around here.

>>4922990
you do it by making the people in charge fearful of becoming labled criminals, no one is going to shove the murder argument to the side because no one wants to be put in the chair for watching star wars or die hard. the horror genre essentially becomes a moot point at that, nearly all video games are banned and TV is restricted to news and childrens shows, no sit com can depict a crime.

>>4922976
What about non-SSL-based protocols and derivates? What about the large amount of compromised machines that people can use as proxies, or people volunatarily donating nodes. Basically, whatever you do, it's impossible to completly block such a thing. The only way to enforce such a draconian distopian future is for the whole world to be united into one country which had nothing better to do than opress its citizens. It just won't happen, or at least unlikely within our lifetime.

>>4922975

That's because you're not acquainted with the rare intelligent American or the general populace of the US some 100 years ago and earlier. You're familiar with the general populace of present day America.

>>4922976
>Outlaw self-signed certificates, require all CAs to give the government a copy of all private keys.

Yes, because politicians and bureaucrats are not morally bankrupt and greedy scumbags who are routinely bought and paid for by large companies, powerful individuals, and foreign nations.

They would never compromise the security of companies, research institutions, and think tanks for a relatively small sum of cash which they would use to get their jollies at the expense of every fucking person in their country, if they could.

/jp/ - Slashdot/General

Best damn thread in a long time, I must say.

politesage

>>4922990

And of course, we as Westerners take 'freedom is an essential human right' for granted, when in fact it's far from something engraved in a cosmic stone of law somewhere.

Freedom of speech isn't a human right; it's just a very nice idea someone thought up.
An idea that modern-day governments could very possibly overturn if they so chose.

>>4923027
How is slashdot these days? I stopped visiting a few years ago.

>>4923031
>>the right to be free not a natural right
Jefferson is dissapoint

>>4923008

That reminds me of the whole business of cigarettes and tobacco: if the government really cared about its people's health over their freedom to choose (Which is kind of what Europe's doing now), then they would ban tobacco instantly. The only reason they don't is because of the public outcry that would ensue, and also cause the industry is making the government a LOT of money.

As long as things like tobacco and cigarettes are still allowed by the government, they cannot claim to wholly support the wellbeing of the people without being absolute hypocrites.

>>4923070
tobacco is shit tier anyway, its corn syrup that causes cancer.

>>4923070
People are making their own choices. If they choose to harm themselves, that is their own right.

>>4923067

Unfortunately, Jefferson is not god.
The right to freedom is a human creation that humans enforce, and a more powerful group of humans who decide to revoke it could easily do so.

Speaking of which, why do so few sites offer https?
The performance loss is pretty much negligible.

>>4923088
you can oppress a right but you cant revoke it.

>>4923085

Exactly.
What I'm saying is that Europe's stance on the thing is 'we shouldn't let people harm themselves, even if they want to'.
And yet people still smoke there.

>>4923067
Regardless, a right is just a proclamation of "I can".
There is no natural guarantee for any right.

>>4923097

>>4923104
This anon gets what I'm saying.

>>4923070
They don't care if they're hypocrites. The only thing they care about is people believing that they are hypocrites and not voting for them.

The politician is an animal that will compromise everything it believes in (if, in fact, it believes in anything) in order to secure its political future. It has no morals, it has no principles...

All it cares about is the accumulation of political power, the prestige and wealth that comes from it, and the capacity to enforce its own "values" on people that actually work for a living, instead of being the human equivalent of an overfilled tick.

American, European, etc. All politicians are, at heart, terrible non-entities. Empty suits with nothing but malice for people that actually make a living.

Always fearful of the people they govern, believing that they'll become violent savages in an instant, should the ticks become unable to suck them dry.

Just got here and haven't bothered to read through this thread, but I noticed that some big hentai sites seem to be taking down their loli stuff in response to this. Good. Less pedo trash for me to sift through.

>>4923088
Under the definition of a right though it is inherent and inalienable it's something you own like property. It's not unalienable meaning you can sell it or it can be stolen. Revoking a right is like stealing. It's considered criminal. Or it should be.

>>4923123
well all you faggots had to do was vote in people who are not terrible but you never do.

>>4923010
>What about the large amount of compromised machines that people can use as proxies, or people volunatarily donating nodes.
Well, once this is put in force worldwide (or near worldwide), they'll just arrest the people whose boxes get rooted or donate a node and charge them, guilty or not. If you think a small matter like not actually having committed any crimes will stop the "Think of the Children" brigade, you should look up information on "Operation Ore" from a reliable source. [I think an important hearing for a class action should be heard next week. I only hope eventually the whole thing leaves a serious mark against that prat Gamble, but more likely he'll dump all the blame onto one of his underlings. There are probably plenty who'd willingly fall on their own swords if he asked them.]

And even if there are some countries in an "Axis of Paedophiles" like possibly America (though I find that unlikely, in the end) and a scattered few others who stand against the oppressive measures and protect the freedoms of their citizens, Europe, Australia and the countries they can convince will just put up a great firewall around themselves to "keep out this filth".

>>4923123

I agree with your first point, which is why I think we need to expose this sort of hypocrisy in the arguments we use.

However, your evaluation of politicians is slightly on the nihilistic side. We should assume that what politicians want to help and do what's good for the country, but unfortunately there's no concrete definition of how to do that.
All we can really do is say 'they think they're doing good, but because I think differently, and of course I think I'm right, I have to say that I think they're making things worse.'

Of course, it could also be that the politician has good intentions but is actually incompetent, in which case, yeah, get rid of them.

>>4923144

The problem is when you only have the same thing to vote on. Now if there were a Loli party, then we wouldn't be in this mess.

>>4923144
But _all_ the people standing were terrible.
We'd have to find some non utter-bastards to stand first.

>>4923149
Europe isn't doing that bad, it's just the UK and a few other countries(Denmark?)

>>4923144
Nobody who can actually create things and do real work has time to become a politician. The ones that can do either of the aforementioned try to become politicians to do good only occasionally. The ones that succeed in getting elected invariably cannot do anything because the system has been redesigned so that the leeches balk their every step, give up in frustration and never run for office again, or lose their humanity and become just another tick.

The solution is to make a list of every current politician and bureaucrat, and then kill them all at once. This includes nearly every lawyer, too.

>>4923157
you compare the current countries problems with its foundation (values) and wheather the politicians are doing anything to live up to them. we arent even halfway there at this point.

List of competent politicians willing to back something perceived as child pornography:
o

>>4923164
>>4923168
>>4923175
>>4923182

I think the fastest way out of this is to get someone competent to pull a Lyndon Johnson; act like the sort of person the majority of the public wants so he gets voted in, and once he's in he starts to campaign for freedom of speech and pass bills allowing loli.

>>4923182
In the grand scheme of things this isn't even an issue. Politicians are more concerned with Iran's nuclear program, women not getting paid as much as men, and the "don't ask don't tell policy" than they are about what you download on the internet.

This issue would be something more for the judicial system. to handle.

And as for feminists when you start paying for dinner and stop being fucking leeches we'll start giving you higher wages. I mean really wtf?

>>4923182
Hey, believe it or not, 20 years ago, there was a wide political movement in France to reinstate "free love". The goal was to suppress laws on age of consent and the like.
Plenty of politicians participated.
Then again, all they succeeded in doing was lower the age of consent to 15.

>>4923175
Ameirca would do better at the moment with a benevolent dictatorship than a democracy, sadly, this country is too big for me to coupe, the best we can hope for is for the country to fall into seperate states and abolish federal government, without a king or despot to say fuck your shit america youre going back to school till you idiots prove you are no fool the current system is too entranced to be salvageable. Most of the country believes politicians are necissary people, that even though they are evil the job they do is so specialized that no one else can do it, A working america needs the vast majority of people who all believe and are capable of, running the country efficiently, and with regards to its foundational values.

>>4923206
>Lyndon Johnson
What did he do?

>>4923157
>We should assume that what politicians want to help and do what's good for the country, but unfortunately there's no concrete definition of how to do that.

Implying there's a politician in office today that has any real national policy control that isn't just trying to sell favors, establish a dynasty, and rule over the "little people" that are so inferior to him/her.

When you have politicians that have the gall to tell us that all of the bullshit they're pushing on us is "for our own good," and then sign into law SPECIAL PRIVILEGES which exempt themselves from any changes (How do you tell if someone works for Obama's cabinet? They haven't paid their taxes for sometimes years on end, and receive no penalties or jail time for it. のヮの)

Well, the only cure for that is a good, old-fashioned lynching.

>>4923215
Ah right I forgot the growing movement in America in support of loli manga

>>4923235
Well, it exists. Loli has its fans. Is it shrinking or growing? I don't know.

>>4923226
>Well, the only cure for that is a good, old-fashioned lynching.
As true as it is, it will never happen.

>>4923226

>Implying there's a politician in office today that has any real national policy control that isn't just trying to sell favors, establish a dynasty, and rule over the "little people" that are so inferior to him/her.


Not everything works like Hollywood says it does.

By no means are politicians angels, but they do deserve a bit more credit than you're giving them. Discrimination against a certain group like what you're doing is no worse than what some of the feminists are doing to us.

>>4922577
I see that they've now fallen back on the age old " My opponents is fat and ugly. Therefore their views are irrelevant" argument.
Sad really.

In any case, I can't help but wondering whether seo101 has left himself open to a legal case by implying that he clearly intentionally sought out and accessed such material. If he lives in England, then I know that that alone is a crime under the law, without any room for interpretation (I remember this from when some celebrity berk tried to wriggle out of a charge a few years back by claiming it hadn't been to masturbate to, he just wanted to look into the rapists eyes and reflect on humanity etc. etc. )

I mean, it would be terrible if something bad were to happen to him as a result of trying to be so helpful.

>>4923235

Website where?

>>4923242
I'm not sure the whinings of socially maladjusted man children really counts as a movement per se

>>4923264
Your sarcasm detector is broken.

>>4923282
attempts at sarcasm are at best trivial on the internet. you should know that. Even people in real life are slow to detect it.

>>4923254
It says a lot about a class of people when the only good guys in that class are defined by the fact that they annihilate everyone else that stands in front of them in order to do as much good as they possibly can before the infection returns and undoes it all, and worse.

We would be better off floating Congress out in a boat into the Potamac, and then setting it ablaze, than leaving them in office. Then, we begin chopping away every institution in existence, rebuilding from the very beginning, tightening the restrictions on what can and can't be changed, and for what reasons.

The Bill of Rights and the Constitution are not just things you read once in Civics class (if that class still even exists), and then trod on every time you want a new entitlement for your voting bloc.

It's not nihilistic, just pragmatic.

>>4923242
The thing in France had its chance to be because somewhere along the line a bunch of trendy normalfags gave it some support, and a whole load then jumped on the bandwagon.
And there's no hope of that happening in England, for one thing youth rebellion has never been what it is in France where they go on strike if they're expected to actually put any effort into their work. And for another the generation you'd look to for this kind of change is far too busy posting sensitive personal information for the world to see on facebook to ever partake in any cause more worthy than playing a flash game to give 10 grains of rice to a famine suffering nation.

Assuming the worst happens and loli is outright banned in all of the civilized world, what would you do? Would you stash it in some external HD or just give it up? Or would you become the Che Guevara of loli and fight for your freedom to enjoy lolis from the jungles?

>>4923289
Except I'm not the one who posted the sarcastic post.
I managed to understand that the poster was being sarcastic, however.
To detect sarcasm on the internet, don't try relying on tone, rely on meaning.

>>4923300
Class-action suit against the government, take it to the Supreme Court.

Possibly lose, and then assassinate all of the Justices that upheld it.

Seems like a good idea.

>>4923300
Live in a country that doesn't enforce it, use anonymous networks/darknets.

>>4923300
We should form our own nation if that ever happens. Between us we should be able to bring in all the loli porn one could look at in their lifetime. Only problem then is food, water and electricity.

>>4923299
True enough.
France is fascinating in the sense that we'll do the impossible so as not to have to work.

>>4923300
Find a new fetish.

>>4923324
What if they all do, except lawless broken nations like Somalia (or by this time, Britain) where Islamic fundamentalist groups enforce their own law by force, each more puritanical than the last? And that encryption is against the law unless you register your keys so the governement can inspect it?

>>4923341
Unless your fetish is "consensual sex in the missionary position for the sole purpose of reproduction", they'll all be banned soon enough. Fucking normalfags.

>>4923343
Believe it or not, I'd make a great muslim.
I don't drink, don't eat pork, hate sluts and am willing to praise Allah five times a day.
I also await the fall of the great satan.

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send away JP

>>4923343
There will be many countries that simply can't enforce it, don't enforce it, are corrupt or plain old don't care about it. Please keep in mind this is the real world, you have no idea how many darknets are out there, and would probably be surprised that they're just everywhere.

>>4923326
I can see it now.

We'll call it Otakudan. It'll be a paradise for Otakus Hikki's and NEET's everywhere.

The main currency will be called the Moon Script and it will have the most famous 2D character on it we can parody..

Then we'll create the articles of Otakudon. and list the goals of the Otaku society. Namely the protection of our individual interests and tastes.

What a life that will be.

>>4923369

Until someone goes 'my individual tastes are in direct conflict with yours' and starts a huge ragefest.

Sometimes I ring up the UAF and ask them hard questions about their funding, times they have received lots of convictions for assault etc.

Maybe I should do this to this group.

>>4923369
oh and our national language will be German. Because it's the most fucking easy western language to learn.

>>4923369
Indeed. And since it will be 99.9% male, we'll have no need to worry about bitches and whores being noisy, and idiot normalfags being loud and obnoxious to try and look good in front of aforementioned bitches and whores.
Only problem is the country would struggle to maintain the NEETs, especially as we'd be diplomatically isolated. We'd probably have enough skilled Hikki to offshore skills like banking and programming to other nations, if they'd be willing to trade with us.

>>4923388
>German
>easy to learn

のヮの

>>4923369
Fuck you guys, we are not starting a nation from scratch without this guy as our national founding values.

>>4923388
Best joke I've heard all day.
Gee, those cases sure are fun.
Someone remind me why das Mädchen is neutral again?

>>4923403
I took a class it's really easy to learn actually. It's like English only it doesn't break all of it's rules so it's way easier to learn.

>>4923415
fuck off forign faggot

>>4923424
I'm American. I just happened to go to private school and I learned it there.

>>4923385
You know, normally I wouldn't agree with most of what you say except as a joke, but on looking at the UAF website I can't help but wonder if they realize the irony in the fact that an organization supposedly against fascism wants government news agencies to censor contentious political views or at least meet them with hostility that other parties do not receive in what is supposed to be neutral coverage. I think I remember them performing similarly ill graceful things in the past as well, but I can't remember any specifics.

Sometimes, you're not completely terrible athens.

>>4923388
It'll be a great language for being angry in when we meet idiots who think Visual Novel company A is the best, when Visual Novel company B is the superior producer.

>>4923437
If you are American, just count yourself lucky that you have a constitution that protects free speech. The lunatics really do run the asylum in Europe, as evidenced by the show trial of Geert Wilders.

>>4923300
I already started collecting them on a external hd just in case loli eventually gets banned in japan and gets harder to find on the internet. Unfortunately Loli is already illegal where i live (Canada ;_; ).

Stop referring to europe as a collective nation state already.

So how come noone comes down on teenage sit coms or dramas? There's sexual situations involving minors. Broadcasted on TV too. But noone says a thing.

>>4923388
Wouldn't it make more sense for the national language of an otaku country to be Japanese?

>>4923464
There are certain general trends that distinguish Europe from North America.

I always felt that European Americans believe more in personal liberty and private property.

>>4923464
Why? It's eventually going to end up that way anyway.

As was said earlier, we seriously need to create our own micronation, like the principality of Sealand.
It would be awesome.

>>4923464
Abolish the European Union, which doesn't give a shit about individual nations' wills or constitutions, and we'll talk.

>>4923486
Please follow european politics.
If anything, the european union is breaking apart.

>>4923481
see:
>>4923451

>>4923494
Damn right.

>>4923494

So how does Europe keep getting the rep for being more liberal than the US when it's trying to create a facist supernation?

>>4923585
Because even if it's a fascist supernation, at least it isn't one controlled by retard christians.

>>4923585
We're actively resisting and pointing out that we're going to start hanging people if they don't cut this shit out.

Also, we're marking down who stands to benefit from all this bullshit, so that we can see to them, too.

>>4923585
Different definitions of liberal. Europe is liberal in that it gives chavs money to spawn more chavs and beat people up, whilst at the same time locking up people just for having kooky views on history.

>>4923597

So does the EU gig mainly benefit the big European powers like Germany, France etc. or does it help the little guys more?

>>4923608
It almost exclusively benefits the UK, France, or Germany, as everything they're involved in is intended to do.

>>4923608
The EU benefits southwestern Europe, kills Germany and helps the small guys by providing them a with a market for their products and labor.

>>4923616
The only reason it doesn't benefit Germany anymore is because they're doing too well. Before, Germany got to dictate a bunch of shit to the lesser nations.

I think justifiably so.

>>4923616
The EU benefits France by buying surplus crap farmers produce in huge amounts simply because they know the EU will buy them, causing massive waste. And the rest of the CAP, the largest part of the EU budget.
And then Labour go and throw away the rebate Maggie fought hard to get, with the French laughing the whole way through as they did so for a scribbled note saying we'll do something nice for you in the future.

>>4923602
>>4923602
This.

What's the biggest rate of income tax in the US anyway? In terms of percentage over a certain amount earned.

Oh lord, Nazi Kuroko!
You are the best OP ever.

>>4923608
Germany just decided to kick the Euro they obviously aren't in favor of the EU.

>>4923634
By Southwestern Europe, I mean France and everything below it.
CAP is the craziest shit. Also, seriously, nobody gives a fuck about the Brits in France.

>>4923633
I don't really think it's normal that Germany has to pay for everyone when it's been the only reason anything ever got done in the EU and EEC.
They dictate stuff to other countries because they're the only country in Europe that's fucking productive and they're tired of having to put up with everyone's shit.

>>4923645
and they are fucking right!
to each its own country.

>>4923655
>Before, Germany got to dictate a bunch of shit to the lesser nations.
>I think justifiably so.

Where did I disagree with you? I think Germany should buy out France and turn it into a landfill. It should then proceed to sink the UK, so that no chavs escape.

>>4923657
Now if only the USA would break up in a similar manner.

>>4923669
But then I'd be forced to move.

>>4923669
What? That'd be terrible!

>>4923663
You forgot about the PIIGS.

>>4923669
Cut off California and all the other predominantly democratic states with huge pension and economic problems, let them fall, and then partition off their territory to adjoining states.

Use a tactical nuke on the District of Columbia.

>>4923663
>so that no chavs escape.
Why would they want to? SO long as they have a steady supply of alcohol to binge on, and benefits to fleece, they're happy staying put.
Except a few weeks of the year when they fly out en masse with the budget airlines to trash a tiny corner of some impoverished nation, whilst thinking they're in a different culture whilst cozily inside the pale of their resort.

>>4922577
That squibble faggot is pissing me off.

>>4923415
English rules do not have.

>>4923738
I meant so that they can't escape the UK while you're sinking it.

>>4923987
to any guys there
you're not doing a good job
they're are not going to listen to the type of arguments that loli is harmless, they don't give a crap.
go something along the lines of
"I agree it is disgusting and reprehensible materiel, and it makes me sick to my stomach that people get off to this, but at the same time I can't possibly condone this type of censorship as it will have far reaching consequences in.....ect"
or something like that

>>4924049

So then we would become the very politicians we hate. Selling out our lolicon breathern just to defend them.

>athens posting in a thread
>people listening to athens

>>4924549
Athens-sama is our Great Teacher. You shut up.

Vote libertarian. You might be throwing your vote away, but the other parties will realize there is an untapped voting bloc and change their view accordingly.

If libertarians got 5% of the vote things would change DRASTICALLY. You wouldn't even NEED to ever vote for the shitty parties, they'd freak out bending over backwards on each other trying to get that 5%.

VOTE LIBERTARIAN.

>>4924564
That's probably just a woman.

>>4921421
Wait, what?

>>4922577
Well, glad to see at least some more sensible people have started to respond in that discussion. They probably all came from 4chan, but hey, that's why I started visiting this site exclusively in the first place: because I was sick of arguing with people who could not make logical arguments or defend their position without resorting to tactics like attempting to gain support from the authority/majority/"established and respected members of the community".

I don't even care about loli anymore personally, but people trying to ban it based on nothing but moralism still infuriates me.

Wow, google actually deleted it.

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Webmasters/thread?tid=42ef23b063343df1&hl=en&start=40

Protip: if google does not provide the service you want switch. use ixquick

>>4928156
Probably because the fascists were unable to come up with any logical counterarguments.
Anyone know how/ have a cache of how it went there since yesterday?

>>4928156

Found part of Google's thread record and a compilation of basically everything that happened here:

komidol.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/the-campaign-against-the-ban-of-lolicon-art/

But OP's link is the original site.

>>4928156
...is that supposed to look like a penis?

>>4928203
It does? Illegal In Britain, then.

>>4924789
>implying Libertarians will vote for anything but Republicans for tax breaks.
>implying Libertarians aren't butthurt Republicans that will split the party in two
>implying Democrats won't just sit back and laugh as they win elections and continue to fuck over our liberties.

What is Google's stance on ascii loli?

>>4928223
stick figure loli is ok if censored, ascii loli is child porn.

>>4923031
>>4923088
Your views are quite disgusting.

>>4923595
Retarded Christianity. Retarded liberalism. Stand too far to either end of the balanced stick causes it to droop until falling off.

>>4923689
I agree with the California suggestion but the tactical nuke on D.C. is a bit much. They have some nice buildings and the Smithsonian. Targeted biological attack should be enough.

inb4 FBI

If only I lived in Canada, then nothing bad would ever happen to me.

>>4928229
But shouldn't ascii loli be protected, as text is given much stronger emphasis in American freedom of speech laws?
If things ever go bad there, you could use mplayers -text output function to convert hundreds of loli doujins and anime into ASCII format, share them about, and wait for a test case.

>>4928270
You could get run over by a moose ...

quit drooling, white hen et. al.

So, is the Internet illegal in Britain and the US yet?

Discussing this further would be better than the spam.

>>4929242
Yeah repeating the same shit from all the previous posts is sure better. Retard.

>>4923404
Hell yes.

Not directly related, but with this ruling today it is nice to see that (most) of the US Supreme Court justices still see value in the first amendment.

http://www.scotusblog.com/2010/04/first-amendment-left-intact/

>>4929261
You never know, we might be able to organize some sort of resistance against this. Then /jp/ will actually have accomplished something for once!

>>4929282
>Then /jp/ will actually have accomplished something for once
We already have a cool theme song.

>>4929270
> Not directly related, but with this ruling today it is nice to see that (most) of the US Supreme Court justices still see value in the first amendment.

http://www.scotusblog.com/2010/04/first-amendment-left-intact/


Actually, from that article, this is quite relevant.

>Recalling its precedent putting child pornography outside the First Amendment, the opinion said that the Court had done so because the depictions of such pornography was necessarily linked to actual abuse of children in the production of such materials. That approach, and other cases discussing what the First Amendment does not protect, the Court added, “cannot be taken as establishing a freewheeling authority to declare new categories of speech outside the scope of the First Amendment.” While there may be some categories of speech not yet identified that could be placed outside the First Amendment, “there is no evidence that ‘depictions of animal cruelty’ is among them,” the Court said.

>>4929365
Indeed. The reasoning there looks like it could be used to keep loli safe for a good few years at least in America.

I think I finally understand why America makes such a big deal about the civil war and why people gave their lives so readily for freedom of speech.

I'm ready to fight for it.

>>4929365

Also, good find, Anon.

>>4929497

Fight-O!

I wonder what they'll do here in Norway. We're usually the silent, obendient bitch of the EU, although the government hardly cares about filesharing and possession of illegal stuff etc.
I intend to move somewhere else either way, but I'd like Europe to be a valid option, which it won't be if governments keep ignoring the right to Freedom of Speech.

I sure hope USA and Japan don't give in to this shit.

This is all so freaking archaic. Drawings don't need protection. Real children do. The man needs to get back to chasing down rapists and child molesters and leave doujinshi enthusiasts the hell alone. I'm sick of it already.

If only some of the UK Otaku could get together and protest the loliban.

Set an example for other countries who try to do it, prohibition-style.

http://littlewhitebutterflies.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/and-so-it-ended

This faggot gave up.

>>4931918
What is he supposed to do? Call the media? I believe they're currently on a tirade AGAINST our porn. They're certainly not going to support us. Google has made it clear they aren't changing their decision. Unless they just make a new site there's no getting around this.

>>4928217
Alright bro, you keep voting for you Democrats and your Republicans who don't give two shits about freedom and civil liberties.

>>4932253
The Libertarian in the last thread wanted to ban loli. Libertarians only care about the rights THEY have they don't care about anyone else's rights.

>>4932262
I find that difficult to believe.

>>4932283
read the previous thread it's true.

>The Libertarian in the last thread wanted to ban loli.
A single Libertarian wanted to ban it? What does that matter?

>>4924789
Oh please. I'm a libertarian and even I realize most libertarians are idiots.

>>4932262
http://www.lp.org/platform

>>4932320
>We support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation or control of communications media and technology.

I don't see anything wrong with it.

What was
>>4932262 mumbling about?

>>4932362
A single retard in the last thread said he was for banning it and that he was libertarian. Everyone called him a bad libertarian. Case closed.

Seeing as he went against his parties platforms I really don't see how he was a Libertarian.

>>4932320
Every political party tries to put on a good face for the public. It doesn't mean shit.

This thread is dying. Someone make another. I'm too scared Hitler will track down my IP and bake me if I support ロリ (super secret code word) in anyway.

Still here?
New VN creation thread. Continued from >>4924300

>>4932375
Libertarians only have 200k people. They've never once been about putting on a good face to win because they can't. The only thing they exist for is putting pressure and acting as a watch dog.

>>4932392
Oops.. Wrong tab.
Damn it.

>>4932397

Here:
>>4932413

>>4932362
think of how many Libertarians there were before 2008. Almost all of the people that call themself Libertarians are neo-conservatives that don't even know what the term means. They just happen to agree with Libertarian economic policies.

And you don't even have to be a right leaning Libertarian to begin with, traditional Libertarianism only cares about social policy. I would call myself a left-libertarian, or a middle one.

To sum it up, Americans calling themself Libertarians these days need to be taken with a grain of salt. It's more then likely most of them just watch too much Glen Beck.

>>4923067
Is it a one page edit?

Google doesn't censor unless it matches their own definition of child porn, or if it infringes on copyright (when they stand to profit)

They even have a counter now that lets you see every time a government asks them to censor something

>>4932391
What about gutting their platform and choosing Bob Barr as the nominee? Does that count as putting on a good face?