/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I can't Jason hard enough.

>JAYSUN

Die The death! Sentence to death! Great equalizer is The Death!!

But Heavy Rain broke Knox from the very first one

THE KILLER CANNOT BE SOMEONE THE AUDIENCE CAN SEE THE THOUGHTS OF BUT SCOTT SHELBY IS THE ORIGAMI KILLER

When the bitches cry, none will be left alive.

>>4510957

That's nice. Thanks.

Jerk.

>>4511619
It's not a very good game anyways bro, you ain't missing much.

>>4510957
This. Pretty much a High Tension-tier twist, but the game was wicked anyways, so I can't really complain.

>>4510880
4th isn't broken... Jayden is an addict, but it doesn't affect the mystery.
3rd isn't really an issue either... It doesn't affect the mystery at all
DO NOT READ THE NEXT SPOILER IF YOU WANT TO PLAY DON'T SAY I DIDN'T WARN YOU
But oh God, 1 and ESPECIALLY 7... So many plotholes. But I thought it was appropriate. He was the last person I suspected. I was sure it was Madison.

>>4510957

Pretty much why I don't suspect Rosa, Shannon, or Jessica as being the culprit in Umineko.

>>4512461

>>4510880
Whether it obeys Knox or not, is irrelevant.
Heavy Rain's story is bad for multiple other reasons.
And the worst one could be compared to a different Knox rule either way.
You should keep shit in perspective and distinguish what actually matters.

Screw ME2, Heavy Rain is the real WVN.

>implying knox would apply to some shitty movie

>>4512618
But neither of them are novels at all...

>>4512618
ME2 is a nukige

>>4512664
With one non explicit optional scene per possible interest?

>>4512694
Yes.

>>4512745
With it not being the focus of the game and possible not to even have the choice to trigger (not recruiting teammates or screwing loyalty missions)?

>>4512694

>>4512752
Stop making up bullshit arguments to deny that ME2 is a nukige.

>>4512762
Nukige? Did someone said nukige?

>>4512762
I just want to be enlightened bro.

>>4511656
Yes it is, it's excellent.

>>4512816
If it's not a good story, which is all that matters in the game, it is not excellent.

>>4512824
How is it not a good story?

>>4512845
It's a shitty mix of movie sequences and motives, with 5 out of 6 characters having a shitty base personality, let's not count actual plotholes and the presentation.
Also, making your game interface a rhythm game is BAD.
Keep it for fast paced sequences to keep the immersion, not for EVERY fucking event.

>>4512864
Only Madison really had a shitty personality, IMO. I don't get what you mean by bad presentation; everything was done very well, except for some of the voice acting. There weren't very many plot holes, only a couple I can think of. Most are explained if you pay enough attention to details.

>>4512892
ALRIGHT LETS GO BUY YOU A PULLHOON

>>4512906
To be fair, his voice acting got better as the game progressed.

>>4512892
The animations are nothing special, with odd facial models.
The movement due to control scheme is clunky.
Having plot holes at ALL when it's all the game offers is a problem, and being explained does not mean they are explained well. Can you give an actual personality to our dear FBI agent, apart from DRUG and TECHNOLOGY addict and makes bad assumptions?
Let's not even touch the mess of Shelby.
Ethan is the only character with development and proper character and consistency on his actions, though too fucking convenient blackouts kill immersion to the story.
Finally, for all of it's '20+ endings' disclaim, actually varied scenes are much less then you'd think.

It's a mediocre movie with extra scenes, clunky controls that serve only on very specific scenes and almost no original themes.

I can understand a man being impressed if he has never watched a movie in his whole life and/or never played a proper adventure game which actually had gameplay.

Otherwise, nice effort, but not unique enough to excuse the problems.

>>4512892
The game is rife with plot-holes and nonsensical story development. It's very detracting from the overall experience.

>>4512929
Were it a movie, Heavy Rain would suck.

But as a game, I honestly played something unlike anything else I had before... I have never been put more on the edge of my seat during a fight than I did during Heavy Rain... I found it made me tread into areas I felt terrible going into (especially as Ethan), like choosing to drive into traffic, killing that man, crawling through that broken glass tunnel/electric generator things etc. It's being able to control, and knowing that if you screw up, the plot will shit on you, that makes Heavy Rain so great. That's why I'd say Heavy Rain is- Wait a second... What board am I on again?

>/jp/
>Troll everything that is popular to seem edgy/cool/dignified

HEAVY RAIN IS OVERRATED SHIT, RIGHT?

>>4513012
I do not care if it's overrated or underrated.
The whole point is the cinematic experience and immersion. If it has problems with either(which it does), that is it.
Especially because we are on /jp/, the prospects of choices you make screwing you over is not that big a deal(and it's nowhere near a unique vn mechanic).

Ethan's sequences are the only interesting point of Heavy Rain, but are not unique by any means.

>>4512929
What was wrong with the animation? I don't see how the facial models were "odd", unless by odd you mean too realistic, which is just your personal preference. I had no issues whatsoever with the controls, other than the camera sometimes being less than ideal, which is a problem with nearly every 3D game. Norman didn't have the best personality, but it was better than Madison, at least. Shelby was the best character other than Ethan, I thought. Obviously he was pretty fucked up by the events of his childhood, which led him to do the things he did. Other than that, though, he was badass when he had to be and appeared to be very personable and likable.

I've watched plenty of movies and played many adventure games (in terms of PC-style adventure games, The Longest Journey is my favorite, with Grim Fandango coming in second, probably), and I still enjoyed Heavy Rain very much. Most people seem to as well, including the critics. I agree that it's not for everyone, however, since it is a very different sort of game that most people aren't used to.

>>4513084
Being fucked up by childhood does not excuse 'nonsensical'. And saying 'too realistic' is bullshit, I still go outside and see other people talking.

And if you really have watched movies(including one it copies segments from) and played old-school adventure games, you should not be impressed by what is a mediocre plot with far too convenient sequences to keep it going and most characters lacking soul other than 'use me a bit in the game'.

It's not great in it's cinematic experience, and definitely nothing to write about interaction wise.

People are far too lenient cause it's the first time someone tries this particular mix.

I played Indigo Prophecy.

Did they finally stop that quick time event bullshit?

I don't understand what the hell that has to do with interactive fiction at all.

>>4513117
Nope.
At least the later half of HR is not as ridiculously stupid as Indigo's.

>>4513121
>Nope.

Interest gone.

>>4513109
What about him was nonsensical? Most serial killers tend not to be quite right in the head, so other than the obvious I'd like to hear your reasoning. Again, about the character models, they were very good, among the best in video games. If realism wasn't the issue, what was? It was very cinematic in its presentation, leaving the screen completely uncluttered by a HUD or anything of the sort, other than the button prompts and choices/thoughts floating over the characters' heads. It's not supposed to be an action game or anything, the creator itself called it an interactive drama, and that's actually the first trophy you get.

At first, I was surprised to see /jp/ talking about JAYSUN: THE GAME.

But then I remembered that Heavy Rain is basically a very fancy VN. Also, you can play as the slut, which is what /jp/ desires.

>>4510957
Knox's 7th: The detective must not himself commit the crime.

>>4513133
Excusing contradictory actions and reasoning because of 'not quite right in the head' is cheap.
Never mind cheapness of being controllable which is partly the reason the nonsense occurs.
And really, these facial models are the best you have seen?
Jesus.

And whatever the fuck he calls it, it does not excuse actual problems. I never called it an action game or whatever. Biut the interface is still clunky, especially when you try to do mundane shit.

>>4513133
I didn't like the seemingly super natural ability Jayden had to figure things out. And how exactly does Ethan have an origami in his hand every time he wakes up? And how come come when you are reading the killer's thoughts, he gives no indication that he is the killer? Seems a bit silly to me.

>>4510957

That's actually a rule of Van Dine, not Knox.

>>4513155
but he's not a detective.

he never was.

he's just some guy, doin things.

>>4513201
Except what the game tries to force on you of course.

>>4513204
>person solving mystery != Detective.

Yes I am taking things literally.

>>4513158
Which contradictory actions are you speaking of? The fact that he's controllable is what makes the twist good. If it was some random guy you're not acquainted with it would've been far less impactful. I didn't say the facial models were THE best, I said among the best. If you really think they're that bad, can you give some examples of better ones?

>>4513165
Jayden being able to figure things out easily had a lot to do with ARI. It wasn't beyond believable, though, since it's quite possible to get into a situation where you don't find enough clues and he ends up not figuring out who the killer is. Can't explain the origami in Ethan's hand, though, that's pretty much the main plot hole. As far as not Scott not thinking about being the killer when you play as him, well, wouldn't that kind of ruin the whole mystery of finding out who the origami killer is?

>>4513217
You miss the point:
The twist is cheap exactly because of that.
Is M.Shyamalan level of 'I try to surprise you from the backdoor'.
They could have easily made him a reccuring NPC that seemingly assist you in the investigations and gves you both helpful clues or misses.
He'd be hard to suspect, but the game would not force familiarity as when he is controllable, never mind silly issues like 'old man typewriter killing', and conveniently peering ONLY into non-incriminating thoughts or forgetting about proper emotional responses (hey, we are in your fucking twin's grave who is your motivation'),

>>4513259
The typewriter thing is easily explainable by assuming he did it when Lauren was looking at the music box for an extended period. It wouldn't have taken long for him to hit him and come back into the room. Umineko (among plenty of other VNs) has far more plot holes than Heavy Rain and people eat it up.

If Dlanor was the main character things would be different around here.

>>4513300
Conveniently 'I stare at a music box just long enough for the events transpired to be possible in this timeframe' does not cut it.
As for Umineko, it is horrible in it's mysteries, and that is irrelevant(has much less critical acclaim too).
Bringing up other shit to defend shit has little point.
I am not saying it is downright horrible, but it has too many problems to be called excellent, and what people pipe as unique or revolutionary is NOT, they are just more fine tuned elements.

>>4513335
It wasn't exactly convenient for him; he had to wait until she was distracted long enough to go and do it. I brought up Umineko because the OP and several others mentioned it in the thread, and they're both in the murder mystery genre. HR isn't my favorite game ever or anything, but I do think it's very good and deserving of the acclaim it receives. Sure, some things could've been done better, but nothing's perfect.

>>4513362
Umineko is a murder mystery as much Heavy Rain is a rhythm game.
As for HR, a LOT of things could be done better, is the point. And the ones botched are kinda important.
Just because 'it tries something new, even if it;s not, really' does not mean you should excuse it's problems.'
If you do not raise the standards, they will not improve them later on.
HR improved Fahreneit only in it's overall plot in the end, presentation is not that much better, and stand-alone story and characters have issues.
There are some great ideas to expand on, but taht is it.