/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Fuck /seacats/.

Red Text : http://imageboard4free.com/board/seacats/red/topic/513849

Sorry about that, who disagreed with me again? Was doing something else. Mr. 209 I believe it was?

People who hate Shkanon and Kaninzo should take a look.

>http://imageboard4free.com
Your website called, it wants you back.

>/seacats/

Go away.

Just wait for the sagefags to go away.

>>4462372
Building a wall in the middle of a closed room just gets you a closed room with two compartments inside. Either the original meaning of "neighboring room" included a bathroom or it didn't. You can't arbitrarily redefine what "inside" and "outside" mean later using sophistry.

In any case, <red>Knox 8.</red> <blue>I demand you produce a clue that rooms in the guesthouse share bathrooms as you have claimed.</blue>

I also deny your door X with <red>Knox 3</red>, just for the sake of completeness.

I'll explain the legend for the picture. Left side is Shannon's room, right side is the cousin's room and the rooms connected to the cousin's room is the bathroom and a secret room hidden behind the bathtub.

Blue=doors
Black next to the blue=How the doors swing open or open.
Red=Windows
Green in front of windows=Sealed windows
Purple=Spots that are easily seen(I.E. something blocking the view or the point of view depending on where you are standing).

Picture is quite confusing and I haven't updated it yet, I noticed it's still unfinished so just pay attention to what you can see.

Kanon is in the right room with Rudolf and everyone and Shannon is in the left room with George and the old people who are basically knocking on death's door.

To continue with what I was saying. Kanon is stuck in closed room A and Battler is stuck in closed room B. I believe there is a bathroom in all of the bedrooms in the guesthouse, while I have no proof that there bathrooms in the bedrooms I can at least prove there is one bathroom. It was in EP3, I can't be fucked to go get the picture Lambda posted so if you want it go look for it.

>>4462416
Actually, going by what's said about the guest room in the mansion, any bathroom connected to a closed room is considered part of that closed room, and thus is included as being sealed.

Alright, here we go. As far as I'm concerned the bathroom is apart of the actual cousin's room and the hidden room is a whole other one by itself.

As you can see from the picture, the gold line is to represent the path Kanon took. The X in the path is so show that he stopped and locked the door. The circle would be his exit through the window. The way to solve this closed room is a little simple once you've understood the situation.

Kanon sneaks past everyone and or in front of them goes into the bathroom, he then closes the door and locks it. Moves the bathtub(for the sake of the theory it could pretty much be anything, I just thought a bathtub would fit the scene better) and opens door X with a personal key of his. He then goes inside the room, turns around, closes the door and locks it. With this because the bathroom is apart of the closed room scenario it is entirely possible to keep a closed room in the cousin's room while navigating your way through and out the window.

Any questions?

>>4462416

Alright. In episode 3 I believe Rosa commented on going into a bathroom and escaping from it, how can you normally escape a bathroom?

The hidden passage thing is easily bypassed by saying that if Rosa and Eva escaped through the bathroom in episode 3 they could have used the same way Kanon escaped in my theory.

>>4462452
Yes. Are you prepared to die the death for violating Knox's rules?

>33 active users

Holy shit.

>>4462460
Ventilation ducts?

>>4462473
What? Where does it say that?

>Alright. In episode 3 I believe Rosa commented on going into a bathroom and escaping from it,
Bullshit.

I'm pretty sure this is more retarded than Shkanon.

>>4462481
You have to be a mod or something like that to see it. The admin there gives them out to people who he can trust.

>>4462474

Is that all? Wouldn't ventilation ducts be considered a hidden passage anyway?

>>4462482

Like I said, I believe. It's bee quite awhile since I've played, I think it was around the part where Rosa and Eva meet up on the staircase underground.

I think she means she disappeared by pretending to go to the bathroom, not through a HIDDEN PASSAGE.

>>4462460
She can just make up a bullshit excuse when there really isn't a bathroom there.

>>4462481
Only people with "The Eyes" can see it.

>>4462481
Without love it can't be seen.

>>4462452
I note that you totally failed to address any of my objections, so let me put it in simpler terms.

The cousins' room is a closed room. That means it's impossible to move between the inside and the outside.

If the "inside" includes the bathroom, then it always includes the bathroom. Locking the bathroom door doesn't change what is "inside" and "outside" the overall room. Even if Kanon went into the bathroom, the containing room is still closed, and he can't get outside.

If the "inside" doesn't include the bathroom, then the bathroom door is locked and he isn't even allowed to go in there. So again, he can't get outside.

>>4462526
And don't forget the whole no-hidden-doors rule.

>>4462526
That wasn't Meta-Battler. That was me, posting his theory. Nothing was edited in, other than /jp/'s incompetence.

Let me use this example: Imagine four survivors in a sealed room. Say a direct copy of the Kanon nearest the bathroom is sent to the back of the line of survivors and takes the place of the first survivor. The formerly first survivor becomes the second, the second becomes the third, and the fourth escapes through a hidden window and rescues Battler.

Ep6 works the same way.

>>4462509

You're right, however she could have just as well been telling the truth.

>>4462526

Huh? What? I didn't repost that stuff though.

Meta, I'm looking at the script for episodes 1 - 4 and there's no mention of a bathroom in episode 3.

>>4462541
> hidden window
Again, violates Knox's rules.

>>4462557

It was mentioned in EP3 when Eva came back from the library I think? It was mentioned as the lavatory.

>>4462557
There is one mention. Eva says she's going to the bathroom when really she's going to the library in sekret to solve the epitaph. The actual word witch-hunt had was "lavatory" I think.

>>4462559
don't forget that Dlanor does not know if knox rules can apply in beato's game. Even if I think that they can, maybe there can be some liberties about which ones are applied.
(but yeah, for me an hidden window is too obvious)

>>4462571
>>4462569
Ah, that might be why I didn't see it. I'll check again.

"Kanon was never in the room in the first place" is the simplest solution to me.

Except it still doesn't explain how the shit he knew to go to the guest room in the first place, or why he felt compelled to reset the chain.

>>4462577
They do apply to Beato's game. Beato implies that way back in Episode 2 or 3, I believe, when she's talking about closed rooms.

>>4462591
Calls on the internal phone were still allowed, so maybe he talked with Battler after Erika duct-taped the door?

>>4462591
Then you have to go against

[Since he's confirmed not to exist, please exclude him.] I acknowledge that all other people are in the cousins' room.

>>4462605

Well depending on how much of a dickhead a person can be, they could always argue that "everyone else" does not include furniture unless stated otherwise.

>>4462589
Well it never says she snuck out of the lavatory. Sorry, Meta.

>>4462599
for the closed room, yes, I'm talking about the knox rules generally here. but for the closed rooms, yeah .
I believe that it was in ep2

>>4462605
He has to share a name with somebody. Erika proposes that, she just stops bothering after Beatrice shuts her down with the neighboring room.

But if his name already came up in the location check, he doesn't count as "all other people."

>>4462591
> Except it still doesn't explain how the shit he knew to go to the guest room in the first place, or why he felt compelled to reset the chain.
We don't know the reasons why he would do so, all we know is that Beato modified the game so that that is what happened.

>>4462619
Pieces can't act against their nature and they can't do things for no reason or with meta-knowledge. Kanon needed some reason to go there.

>>4462622
Well yeah, and Beatrice did indeed say that that reason was not necessarily to rescue Battler. But as Episode 6 shows us, nothing about the game is fixed until observed by the detective or fixed in place by red text.

>>4462612

Well that's fine, I just wanted to prove that there was indeed a bathroom in the guesthouse. Though I'm still unsure about all of my theory. To be honest I didn't even want to discuss this today, I wanted to look it over some more and find more proof before presenting it to /jp/.

>>4462622
Well, this rule is pretty much smashed by erika, in fact.

>>4462634
You may want to look for information about the closed rooms and such before trying again, since you don't seem to know all the details.

>>4462654
Magic pieces can do whatever they want.

>>4462661

Well there are some people out there who HAVE and CAN read EP6 and still haven't tried to solve it other than "LOLSHANNON=KANON".

>>4462677
Then shatter their theories when you're better informed.

>>4462618
Yes, and Kinzo is the more likely choice. But even like that the part about disappearing is still a pain, unless if he give up the name Kanon or die in 1 minute 30 after saving Battler (highly improbable).

>>4462677
If it works when they tried it, why obsess with finding other answers in this crackpot of inconsistent rules and viewpoints?

>>4462682

You bet I will!

>>4462689

Why not? Personally if I find a theory that works I'll try again from another stand point with a different theory.

>>4462683
That's the biggest problem. Unless he can somehow be in the room earlier than when Erika goes into the bathroom (unlikely), he has exactly a minute to die or somehow otherwise escape without leaving the chain off the hook.

How the hell would he manage that? Even if it were Shkanon, why would she do that at that point? What's the point of Kanon being the one to save him? It makes very little sense, so unless Beatrice was just fucking around I don't get it.

>>4462689
Shkanon doesn't work to solve the ep6 closed room.

>>4462689
Because it didn't work, because it contradict the autor himself, and because it makes some red truth from ep 2 a big joke?

And also because of what Ange said about the blue text in ep 4, A wall of truth, not only one?

Just saying.

>>4462715
From what I know, every theory up to know has such problems.

>>4462705
Erika's POV isn't continuous, you can tell from how she got away with murdering the other first twilight victims. Couldn't she have just found him in the closet and shot him?

How about, Kanon realized Erika was the one killing everyone, and he killed himself out of fear.

>>4462734
Possible, but why would Erika not be aware that the reason Kanon wasn't in the room was because she capped his ass?

>>4462734
No, she refused to be the detective earlier in the game, so she could be the culprit, by killing people to make sure they're dead. After she killed those 5 though, she did declare herself the detective, so even though she was the culprit before then, she wasn't allowed to be the culprit after. She can't have killed Kanon. Maybe Battler did?

New theory guys. Just thought of it. Kanon before going into the closed room with Rudolf and everyone else had a heart attack and quickly died. After "everyone else" was said to have been in the cousin's room lightning hit Kanon's body and jump started his heart. After reviving he looks up at the guest of honor's room and sees Battler screaming for help! He then proceeds to rescue Battler.

>>4462705
It it were Shkannon, "Ho, I turned into Shannon!", and Kanon doesn't exist in this room anymore.

What I REALLY don't get with this theory is that even if it is true, we saw kanon's corpse, and Kanon's personnality, "Dying" at the end of the trial.
If his corpse disappearing is not a good enough metaphor about his personnality dying... How the hell is he supposed to be still alive and saving Battler after this?

>>4462752
No. Erika was asking for the locations of people regardless of whether they were dead or alive. This is because Meta-Battler was being tricky with whether the 6 first twilight victims were dead (as shown later, they weren't.)

Even if Kanon was dead at the time of counting, it doesn't matter. Try again.

>>4462744
The same reason Battler doesn't know what his piece did in EP3 immediately before Eva shot him. The GM can let the detective's piece run on autopilot for a while, apparently.

>>4462752
>lightning hit Kanon's body and jump started his heart.

Now you're just trolling.

>>4462756
Maybe he died after saving Battler?

>>4462756
That doesn't make any sense. Assume Shkanon is 100% true. Why is she killing "Kanon" at that point?

She's still stuck in a fucking closet with a psycho. And she can't be aware of the red text. She has no reason to off a persona. At least if Kanon kills himself or gets murdered he has some kind of reason.

It's not gonna matter to Erika which bra Shkanon is wearing when she opens the closet.

>>4462752
Well after all, Joshua = Jesus

>>4462749
It's impossible for her to become the detective after having killed a bunch of people, because she was already the culprit. She never reclaimed the detective position in red either.

>>4462763

Dammit, and here I was going to say after saving Battler his pacemaker exploded and killed everyone.

>>4462776
How about this:
Erika was in the room with Shannon. Therefore when Erika left the rooms and sealed them, she had last seen Shkannon dressed as Shannon. Let's say that for the most part, Shkannon is using the personality of who they are dressed as. Shannon exists that closed room and goes to the guest room for whatever reason. However, Shkannon is acting as Shannon. Perhaps Shkannon is also going to fetch his Kanon outfit. But when they enter, they don't realize, but Battler and Erika are there. But they're still in the Shannon outfit. So they switch personality when they realize, so Kanon isn't there anymore.

>>4462776
How about this:
Erika was in the room with Shannon. Therefore when Erika left the rooms and sealed them, she had last seen Shkannon dressed as Shannon. Let's say that for the most part, Shkannon is using the personality of who they are dressed as. Shannon exists that closed room and goes to the guest room for whatever reason. However, Shkannon is acting as Kanon. Perhaps Shkannon is also going to fetch his Kanon outfit. But when they enter, they don't realize, but Battler and Erika are there. But they're still in the Shannon outfit. So they switch personality when they realize, so Kanon isn't there anymore.

>>4462795
Disregarding that Shannon can't leave the room yet, if she's dressed as Shannon and assuming Shannon's personality, she's Shannon when she crosses the boundary of the guest room (defined in red as entering), meaning "Shannon" entered the room, not "Kanon."

>>4462795
It's not as simple as that. They probably don't switch at will, like swapping back and forth.

>>4462808
I meant acting as Kanon. Since nobody is around, they're acting as Kanon even though they're not wearing the Kanon outfit. But once people are around, they realize and need to switch back.

>>4462814
How do you know? Kanon could have entered in Shannon's outfit and thought after realizing the room wasn't empty "shit nee-san, you better take over"? We don't know the actual details of the DID.

>>4462749
Battler is not a murder, this is true for all games.

>>4462776
Well rather than killing Kanon here. Kanon is supposed to "die" in the room with Jessica and the others. So even in this way it wouldn't work.
Or you don't believe what the white text is saying literally, and so Shkannon have no sense.

I always assumed that he was already wounded when he entered in this room. After all we have a flashback of his life, his relationship with the ushiromiya family, and his regrets, so... But it is impossible to prove actually.

The red text sort of kills Shkanon but it's hard to explain why.

At the time Beatrice says Kanon saved Battler, there's still a seal on the room Shannon is in. So at this point in time, Shannon cannot be Kanon. Erika thinks there was a trick involved, so SHE has the seal on talking about the room's window removed and tries to suggest "Kanon" is a name used by one of the five people in the room, Shannon included.

Beatrice shuts her down. So even once Shannon can leave through the window, she isn't Kanon.

>>4462831
The big joke is : what Batler was she talking about?

>>4462831
But can he kill in self-defense?

>>4462825
How did Shkannon get out of the neighboring room? The window loophole wasn't available until after the logic error was resolved, so the solution Beato gave to Lambda couldn't have used it.

>>4462851
She didn't. Shannon != Kanon.

>>4462840
There, the people who are for Kanon would say that they are different characters, count as individuals, and so this rules doesn't apply because it is a different person.

>>4462844
Good point.

>>4462846
I don't think so.

Kanon is the Key to One of the mysteries in the Air about Rokkenjima.

>>4462840
So... Kanontrice confirmed?

More like Shannontrice vs. Evil Other-Battler.

>>4462877
I hope so, if only because of fucking delicious irony.

>>4462877
I could never understand why they put exist in quotes.

>>4462927
Uu-, Anonymous doesn't believe!

>>4462927
Because it doesn't actually exist. It only "exists". i.e. It's not something real, but it's still present. And without love, it cannot be seen.

>>4462913
If Kanon is indeed female, then I want to see her in this outfit at some point in time. It's quite cute.

I would penetrate girl-Battler with my blue wedge.

>>4462950
Wait a minute. If Kanon actually is female, that would make genderbent Kanon a trap.

OH SHI—

>Erika thinks there was a trick involved, so SHE has the seal on talking about the room's window removed and tries to suggest "Kanon" is a name used by one of the five people in the room, Shannon included.
The window was just never confirmed to have its tape remain intact, so it was still open to interpretation. Beatrice could have perhaps relied on this interpretation as well.

That's what Battler was doing, he left thinks in the dark so he could explain things, but then he got his own answers denied. I don't remember reading what you said in episode 6, but even assuming it's true, it doesn't matter. Perhaps, Erika could have won by not removing it and claiming the logic error stands. That is, if she really did remove it.

>>4462957
Without dicks, it can't be seen...

>>4462957

I have a question.

Does the artwork remain constantly humorous, or does it kinda grow on you?

>>4462972
Everyone was forbidden from talking about the window, period. Beatrice's solution cannot have relied on anyone leaving the window, whether Shannon or anyone else in that room.

Yet her explanation - which Lambda accepted - was that Kanon did it. Explain how her theory can rely on something she's explicitly forbidden from relying on?

>>4462981
Both.

>>4462981
It... grows on you, after a while.

>>4462981
The tears that look like jizz hasn't gotten better for me, but the faces do a good job of conveying the emotion.

>>4462986
>>4462987

Okay, I kinda thought so, because I can only see trollface.jpg/You Mad? in just about all of the official art I've seen.

Few of explanations:

-Kanon didn't die or "switch" to Shannon. Rather, Beatrice stopped referring to Shkanon as Kanon and used Shannon instead.

-The original personality in Shannon. Technically, Kanon is a made up character. Beatrice used a stricter version of "existence" to say Kanon does not exist in the room. Perhaps, she could have said Kanon does not exist on the entire island.

-Kanon was already wounded when he arrived in the room. Remember, the two closed rooms were guarded with people with guns. What if one of those people were the real culprit, and used Erika's fucking around to their advantage and went nuts? And that is why Shkannon escaped using the window, and then perhaps tried to warn those who were faking their deaths, starting with Battler. After arriving in the room, Shkanon died.

Battler left the room but came back.

>>4463006
That would require Battler to be Kanon.

>>4463003
The people in the "everyone else" room can't leave, period. That seal is perfect.

The people in the Shannon room can't leave until it's possible to discuss the seal on the window being broken.

One theory is that Beatrice retroactively erased Erika from existence by merging her with the true culprit, who was in Shannon's room. Considering the people in there include Shannon, George, Kumasawa, and Nanjo... well, let's just say Hideyoshi is fucked.

Or the culprit.

>>4462985
The Iron Maidens were just being cockblocking cunts who said it wasn't required for them to respond to Gaap's blue with red.
>Please know that the use of blue truths claiming that the seal on the neighboring room's window was broken at the time of the logic error has been forbidden.
Beato didn't use any blue truth. Acting in Battler's stead as gamemaster, she arranged a viable solution. Perhaps it was even she that placed this restriction until she could twist the events in such a way that would prevent Erika from gaining knowledge of Beato's heart from what Beato revealed.

>[Request: The six victims of the first twilight are where they were discovered. Natsuhi is in her room, Eva in the honored guest room, Kyrie in Krauss's study, Rosa and Maria in the parlor, and you in the guest room!] I'll acknowledge that.
>[Request: Those who are in the neighboring room are Hideyoshi, George, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo!] I acknowledge it.
>[Since he's confirmed not to exist, please exclude him.] I acknowledge that all other people are in the cousins' room.

So basically Battler said that Erika is in the cousin's room?

>>4463022
>The people in the Shannon room can't leave until it's possible to discuss the seal on the window being broken.
Okay, now you're just being retarded. That's just your own crazed interpretation of the red.

>>4463044
Explain how Beatrice's solution can depend on something she can't discuss.

Oh right, you can't.

>>4463047
She just doesn't discuss it out loud? And it wasn't forbidden for it to be "discussed." Blue truth regarding it was forbidden.

Seriously, you're being retarded.

I'm just waiting till shkannon is argued against ingame (blue or red text, either would be great):

Ushiromiya Battler is a breast sommelier! Therefore, it is inconceivable that he would mistake one person for two characters with such different cup sizes! Even with binding or prosthetics, his eyes would be able to tell.

>>4463059
Right, Beatrice just said "Kanon escaped somehow and rescued Battler. I'll explain how later, after you make my theory possible." That makes perfect sense.

Shkanon people are in some serious denial that their pet episode actually undermines the theory if you look beyond the surface.

>>4463064
Beatrice could simply use red text, though. She wouldn't have to use blue.

>>4463064
I think you are in some serious denial. You're taking red that isn't even related, changing to to say what you wanting to say, and then further interpreting it to mean what you want it to mean.

"Please know that the use of blue truths claiming that the seal on the neighboring room's window was broken at the time of the logic error has been forbidden.
Respectfully, please know that the duty to respond to appropriate blue truths has not been invoked...! "

ie, fuck you, I'm not going to respond to your blue truth.

Nothing to do with it. You're high.

>>4463064
Actually, she did pretty much say "Kanon rescued Battler, I'm not explaining how, you explain it, witches did it, etc."

>>4463070
Beatrice isn't the GM. She ran her solution by Lambda and it was acceptable. She had to manipulate Erika into letting them talk about the window seal. And then she only did it to shut Erika down.

>>4463060
First red text of EP7: Shannon and Kanon are two different humans. They each have their own body!

I'm calling it right now. Would fit into the "Umineko is about trolls trolling trolls" philosophy perfectly.

Blue truth, Red truth, this shit seems confusing as all get out.

I think I'll try this out tomorrow, cause I need sleep.

>>4463078
In case you forgot, Battler also had to run his original solution past Lambda. (And she accepted it.)

...Now that I think about it, that implies that not even Lambda knew what Erika was up to.

>>4463088
Battler did Logic Error on purpose.

It was all part of his master plan.

>>4463078
Are you sure? Didn't she use gold truth?

>>4463093
ep6 has only one golden truth and it has nothing to do with the Logic Error.

>>4463095
Though interestingly, said gold truth was stated by Ane-Beatrice, the embodiment of the legend of the witch.

>>4463071
According to both Ange and Featherine, if the only solution to the logic error was for someone to leave through the window, Dlanor's prohibition would have triggered a second logic error. Since that didn't happen, there is a solution that doesn't use the window.

>>4463105
I forgot about that. Thank you for saving me on that.

Beatrice's solution didn't use the window. Or at least it didn't HAVE to. If it didn't have to use the window, it didn't have to use Shannon, which means it didn't have to use Shkanon.

I'm not sure how that can work if you believe in Shkanon, though I'm sure you'll invent a way.

>>4463080
Predictions for EP7:
Bern will expose mysteries and make up crap left and right, whatever will cause the most suffering.
Featherine will try to prove Shkannon is true.
Battler and Beato will try to control the damage with gold truth all over the place.

>>I'll say this right now I have not read EP6 and have only been told of some of the red text and situation so I would call this theory at best a rough draft.

Then don't theorize, retard

>>4463152
Calling it now: Bern comes up with a solution that is plausible, coherent, based on established facts, and seemingly flawless. She trolls all the way through.

Then Battler and Beatrice go trollface, state that she's completely wrong, end episode. The rage would be astronomical.

>>4463283

Ha, I can't wait to see Shkanontrice, Kyrietrice, Rosatrice, Taiwan Theory, and all other popular theories get used in then next episode with some coherent connection between all of them only for ryu to shit all over us and display his superiority in the ???.

But I don't think thats happening. Most likely it will be some fukuin origin story and rudolf's past with asumu and kyrie, along with all the scenes we've seen thus far be much more mean-spirited and tragic.

>>4463338

then in EP8, when Ryu has hammered into our heads the fact that the reason for magic is to turn the depressing and hurtful into fun and happiness, will show an Episode with only 'magical' scenes happening from the viewpoint of a schizophrenic meido with a grudge who just wanted to be loved by battler.

in the end beatrice shares an embrace with battler, and he carrries her in his arms off the gameboard but in reality battler kills shannon and hides in kuwadorian, escapes before the police show up, and becomes a fuckawesome mercenary

Bern's theory: Hideyoshitrice.

And it WORKS.

You know all the stuff about "without love, it cannot be seen"? Well, what if that is the exact answer to some of the closed room problems! Why did Kanon go to Battler? Kanon is in love with Battler and wants to meet him. How did Kanon leave and/or die? Kanon 'became one' with Battler.(i.e. they left while having sex) So guys, what do you think?

>>4463508
At this level of perversion, this voyeurism is possible for Furudo Erika. What do you think, everyone?

>>4463508
Oops, forgot to post this pic with it.

>>4463109
Alright. For the room next to the cousins room, was it ever said that it remained a complete closed room? Or was it ever said that the door and window were the only exits? Shannon could have simply escaped from the room via an opening that wasn't that window or the door. Perhaps even making her own opening.

>>4463043

I'm more interested in how NOBODY NOTICED THIS.

I've never seen this brought up, but it surely would include Erika if she were a person.

>>4465532
True... but, how does it affect the current theories?

>>4464814
Say what sort of locks are used on the windows?