/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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>>4389213
This is a bad idea and you are a bad person.

What was that thread about? I seriously have no idea.

>THE STEPS OF BEATO AND BATTLER'S WHOLE LOVE THING, PRESENTED IN A CONDENSED AND SIMPLE STEP-BASED FORMAT

>Battler and Beato are rivals. Battler is both horrified and intrigued by Beatrice and her game.

>They spend more time together. Beato teases Battler a lot and he likes her cowtits. Physical attraction.

>Beato starts her moe act, and acts deredere towards Battler. He falls for both her and her plan, and he falls for both hard.

>Because he's so incompetent, Beato's plan ends up hitting Battler worse than it would have otherwise.

>Battler tries to hide his feelings for Beato now that he's been trolled. He does so poorly, and no one is fooled.

>Ange shows up and is killed off. Battler is more than a little pissed off at everyone, including Beato, but he is not a total douchebag so he doesn't just say "fuck this shit" and leave the metaworld.

>EP4 tea party. Beatrice asks Battler to kill her. He agrees. Beato is showing Battler her most vulnerable side, without any kind of trolling attached.

>There's a chunk of time missing in between the end of EP4 and the start of EP5. Granted, you have to look at this with at the very least a neutral attitude, but Battler's been given enough time to get over the shock of Beato suddenly being cold and lifeless instead of lively and fucking noisy. Just a little bit, though. He just gets over it a little bit.

>Battler truly realizes that he now feels different - empty, even - now that Beato's gone.

>Sandcastles. Battler hulks out and is a fucking sorcerer now.

>EP6. Battler doesn't even have a comatose Beato to sit beside any more. He's pretty goddamn crazy now. So when he tries to revive Beato and it doesn't go perfectly, he rages.

>But then he gets over his rage, and while the weddings are happening, they kind of just join in. It's not the most serious thing ever.

>>4389137
>EP6. Battler doesn't even have a comatose Beato to sit beside any more. He's pretty goddamn crazy now. So when he tries to revive Beato and it doesn't go perfectly, he rages.

Close, but what the problem REALLY stemmed from was not so much that Beato was gone, but that before EP6 he honestly believed he could use magic to bring her back. He was 100% sure.

He only became an angstbucket after it failed.

>>4389230
Arguing about shipping mostly. Also about whether or not the series is shit.

When we say "without love it cannot be seen" it generally means "without a neutral attitude you are a fucking troll."

/jp/ started to turn to utter shit when it accepted these shitty threads.
Take your shipper faggotry where it belongs.

>>4389250
No, /jp/ started to turn to utter shit when every single Umineko thread was trolled with SHKANNONTRICE and MOON-CHAN XD shit when the thread isn't even about those characters or theories at all.

>>4389247
I know the description is more than a little bit off, but I was just trying to condense it and type it out at a decent speed.

>>4389257
This, my god.

>>4389257
/jp/ turned to shit when you umineko faggots came in masses thinking that /jp/ was a nice place to discuss your shitty theory and shipper faggotry.

>>4389257
Seconding the this.

The current discussion might be shipfaggotry but at least it's not Shkannontrice or Moon-chan or any other culprit theories.

>>4389258
Well, you did an excellent job!

I just wanted to clarify because some people who haven't played EP6 don't know that at the very start of the game, Battler was actually very cheerful and optimistic.

>>4389278
Shipfaggotry is worse.
Yaoi fangirl level, you guys are fucking faggots.

Actually, I think the thread was about the quality of the episodes, but whatever.

>>4389278
Not to mention theory threads that ignore everything that isn't said in red.

>last thread

Pic related. Do we have to go through this bullshit again?

>>4389273

Are you frustrated?

>>4389280
That's actually one of the things that I don't mind, in retrospect.

He was pretty lighthearted at the start of the game, and then the revival is not just as planned and he goes nuts. The craziness seems so much...well, crazier, when you have it right after Battler in a non-wrist-slitting, non-raging mood.

>>4389289
>Yaoi fangirl level

That would be true if it wasn't canon, but it is, so...

>>4389298

I can't really tell what kind of emotion that pic is supposed to express

>>4389289
Not really bro. I doubt you've ever read a single one of those theories thread that disregard all character development and pretty much pull shit out of their ass and try to sound serious and smart.

I'd rather discuss how many times would Shannon and George fuck in their lifetime than have another Shkanontrice/Moon-chan thread.

>>4389291
It started as that and mutated like cancer in a patient on House during sweeps.

>>4389309
I mad

>>4389313
I don't know how often that would be but it would be in the butt.

>>4389273
>BAAAW WHY AREN'T THEY TALKING ABOUT MY PET THEORY BAAAAAAW

>>4389249
That's a very retarded comment.

I wish we could have a proper Ep 6 discussion. Like, why Erika killed those people. I understand why the player Erika did it and I love how hard-core she is, but why did the piece do it? But I guess that can't happen until translation.

>>4389242
The problem is that you honestly think this is a good chain of events.

>>4389336
Probably for about the same reason. Piece-Erika also has some fucked up detective fetish, so she probably thought it was necessary she performed an "autopsy."

>>4389323

How they got a son is quite the mistery

Well, after one entire thread I still think the series started to become progressively worse in ep3.
Why are we arguing?

>>4389345
Because people argue that shit makes sense where they cannot agree on anything themselves.

>>4389345
We're arguing because we're on /jp/.

>>4389345
Because people are silly and think their opinions are fact.

>>4389345
The series might have gotten worse after that, but nothing can really live up to EP3.

Also in case you don't remember what we thought of EP5 before the patch: http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp/thread/3139374#p3139599

>>4389337
Nah, not really, I'll be the first to admit that it's pretty fucked up.

>>4389369
...I do not know who I argue with anymore.

>>4389369

I think most people like Beato/Battler because it's pretty fucked up.

>>4389367
Oh boy, what we thought of something we did NOT read.
Fascinating.

>>4389367
Oh yeah? I also remember a HUGE hype of the episode, especially about how "awesome" the trial scenes were, and how disappointed I was in the end.

>>4389378
It's not the content that is the problem, it's the presentation.
Unless you mean a fetish for shittily written romances on the most mismatched setting mixed with 10 other irrelevant themes.

>>4389337

It might not be good, but you can't deny it's AWESOME

>>4389394
I think it was written just fine, especially compared to 99% of all romance that can be found in media these days.

>>4389345
Why are people arguing?

Because people like you just seem to think going into a constructive thread and saying "I still think the series started to become progressively worse in ep3" without any backing. I wish people could just ignore statements like that, but y'know how likely it is someone is going to respond to it, maybe just even asking why.

This isn't Twitter. One post that takes 5 minutes to write is much better than 10 posts with no thought put into them other than voicing you're opinion. This board and many others have made it clear that nobody gives a fuck about you're opinion unless you're willing to put some thought into backing it up.

>>4389377
Are you saying it's not fucked up? It is. Don't delude yourself.

Doesn't make me like it any less, though.

>>4389411
Your thinking is completely deluded then, seriously.
Even if you compare it to most romances found in the translated VNs, it's weak.

>>4389417
That other guy did back his claim with a huge post in the other thread though.

>>4389429
Which huge post? I'm curious.

>>4389393
talk for yourself, I found the Natsuhi trial fascinating, even more than when I read it with ATLAS, part because I liked the character, It was good in the depressive meaning of the word
The other trial in the ??? was also good, especially if you add the voices, but i liked the first better

>>4389421
I'm not deluded, my opinion just differs from yours.

Also, most romance nowadays is terrible. Just flip on the TV. Heroes, for example, adds a shallow new love interest for each character ever season, then discards them at the end and repeats the cycle. There's so much forced, token romance.

At least Beato/Battler is something different, and actually took the entire first half of the series to develop.

>>4389417
The point is, I've already argued that in the previous thread (or at least, I tried before it became a shipper thread) and I don't feel like repeating myself over and over again.

Arguing is meaningless. Even if I made a post of 10 lines about why I think that, if you disagree with me, no matter what, even a wall of text from some random guy in the internet won't change your opinion about the matter, right?

>>4389442
Agreed completely. Arguing is meaningless.

That's why I was saying in previous thread that people should just steer clear of Umineko threads if they don't like it. Nothing productive will come of telling everyone they shouldn't like something.

>>4389442
I'd listen to it. It might change my opinion.

But I'm not everyone in this thread, so this is pretty much useless.

And that's why this thread was unneeded.

>>4389435
Just because it's different does not mean it was written well, or even likable.
There are tons of romances out there that truly blow any of Umineko's romances out of the water.
Jesus, you could have felt more emotion with Fuminori's and Saya's relationship compared to the Umineko relationships.

>>4389336
Erika probably has a fucked up background involving detective work, abus, and her father.
EP7

>>4389450
Umineko isn't primarily a romance or a mystery or a fantasy, even.

It's a mix of genres. I won't defend this or shoot it down, either. Just trying to state something.

I'm rolling with either Kyrie for mastermind, Kyrie has the motive (lots of money) & then there's her obsession with Krauss (she always dies near Krauss or his study suggesting she's involved with his death or kidnapping).

>>4389451
she already explained why she's like that in ep6 clearly, she won't be revealed to have anything else, if you didn't like her explanation about her character, that's it

>>4389450
Again, that's all your opinion. I love Beato/Battler and find it a moving and well-written relationship that hits all my kinks. That's my opinion, you can't change it, and that's okay.

>>4389429
I didn't mean to point out any specific poster, especially the one I replied to. I just wanted to use what he said as an example because the same kind of conflict could arise from that post. This situation would be improved by the people donning tripcodes.

post reply:
>>4389442
I've been influenced on my opinions a lot because of posters that don't suck on this board. I try to ignore any thread that obviously didn't have thought put into it.

>>4389458
change the motive to: the Ushiromiya family messed up with my baby so I couldn't marry Rudolf

>>4389456
Neither was Saya no Uta, or any of the well written romances in anime or manga.
You can't rely on the "well it's not completely a romance, so it's okay if it isn't that great".

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/man_who_enjoys_thing

BREAKING NEWS, GENTLEMEN.

>>4389369
It's even more fucked up when you think about what is probably the biggest revelation of Episode 6, or at least one of them: Namely, that Beatrice, or part of her, was created specifically to love Battler and have the properties he most desires. She is LITERALLY Battler's ideal.

>>4389476
I think what makes Kyrie tick is money, Asumu is being kept from us for a reason i think, Asumu & money conflict in Kyrie world.

Romeo and Juliet's relationship was sudden and forced, not to mentioned pedophilic.

Therefore Shakespeare is shit and you are retarded if you think Romeo and Juliet was any good.

>>4389456
If it's bad, it's bad.
Focus or not is a different cookie.

>>4389489
I think the point of Romeo and Juliet was 'teenagers are fucking idiots', though.

>>4389476
I think she may have made a deal with the Sumadera family so that she could be with Rudolf.

Remember when it was mentioned in EP4 how odd it was that Kyrie was just excommunicated, when usually someone would be punished by death for what she did?

>>4389257
This, /jp/ and other boards who read Umineko disappoint me with their "Theories" that they are putting out.

>>4389489
If you compare the writing and narration of Shakespeare with R07, gongrats, you are an anon that lost my respect.
Unbelievable circumstances do not mean much if you can portray the events in a way that makes you believe in them.
Shakespeare could.

>>4389487
I think Kyrie isn't the greed one, she's been shown to have some actual issues about her baby, she's always filled with grief and overall hatred for the 'circumstances', because it fucked up her whole life
-Lost a baby
-Couldn't marry rudolf
-Had to see Asumu and Battler be happy as a family while she was the 'other' woman
If I was her, I'd have killed asumu at least, then the rest of the family if it had been involved in ANY way

>>4389499
The romance in Othello wasn't much better.

Then again, that may have been the idea, considering how easily Othello was trolled by Iago.

>>4389489

Romeo and Juliet IS shit

>>4389506
You're pretty easily trolled, aren't you.

>>4389501
That's it, but the deal with the Sumadera's meant a huge deal of money to pay them, while Asumu was just Asumu

>>4389526
Not really. I am not mad.
I said that if he believes it, he is a retard.
And I made a general comment on writing.
You are easily satisfied by ANY response, methinks.

My only problem with Ryukishi is that he relies too much on the rule of cool thing.
I mean, you can't just think like "ADD CRAZY SHIT, INSTANT QUALITY" for every scene you don't know how to portray well.
Just look at the Battler/Erika confrontation at the end of ep5.

>>4389508
Oh i'm not implying Kyrie is greedy, she NEEDS lot a lot of money for Rudolf & i believe the murders are for this sole reason.
Of course the baby is an issue & Asumu will torment her ever more but on the island her one goal is the gold.

>>4389547
but if she was the culprit, she just wouldn't kill Rudolf, also it's a fact she's intelligent enough to solve the riddle
I just don't believe Kyrie, after all her development and what we know about her, would kill for money
my bets are on revenge (since she isn't Beatrice, it's fine), though I see your point and respect it

>>4389543
You don't need to be mad to be trolled. The main problem here is that you can't see through obvious sarcasm.

>>4389590
I have seen too many stupid things in my life, lest alone these two threads to assume he is just being sarcastic.
Hence, the 'IF'.

>>4389508
>killed asumu at least

she actually got a knife and was ready to do that, but then Asumu died in some other way beforehand

>>4389576
My bet: she's the 2nd culprit in EP 3. Rudolf died and she went fucking ballistic.

>>4389506
>implying Shakespeare is good

>>4389607
yeah because every school in the fucking world teaches Shakespeare, so it must be shitty!

Shkanontrice VS Moon-chan is the new Shiki VS Gilgamesh. All of the TM fans are the Umineko fans, and because they needed their circle-jerks and TM isn't as strong as it use to be they started it up on Umineko.

>>4389614
That makes no sense.
Also, I do not think Shiki vs Gil was the issue, it was either general SERVANTS or Shiki vs Shirou.

>>4389612
Shakespeare is good with wordplay and plot. His characters are pretty much just plot devices, though, but he intends that.

>>4389604
Don't worry about spoilers, i've read ep6
I was just aying I'd kill her if I was Kyrie
In ep2 my bet also goes to her through Rosa manipulation (make her believe you're dead and that she's the one controlling)
For ep3, there's no way she could have killed Rosa, she was with the adults, i'd be OK if Eva had killed her, maybe Rosa had killed Maria, eva went to talk to her, saw the corpse and decided to kill her. After dad, the whole thing about the tobacco butt and Kyrie pretending to be dead, then killed by, whoever, nanjo or Jessica
this is hard because literally everyone has an alibi

>>4389576
No it's true she wouldn't kill for money, but what is the link between her & Krauss, why is it when Kyrie dies Krauss is involved except EP3.
Which makes me think this is not a revenge crime, but i respect your points.

>>4389624
Fucking newfag, Shiki VS Gilgamesh was one of the ways people started the circle-jerks.

>>4389612
I don't care if the schools teach it, it's not entertaining.

>>4389657
We started shitty threads with far too many topics.
In NO way this was the frequent method.

>>4389656
Actually something interesting to note: from EP 1-4, Kyrie and Krauss die around the same exact time.

EP 1 and 2 both die on the 1st twilight.
EP 3 Krauss dies on the twilight after Kyrie
EP 4 Krauss dies right before she does

>>4389656
thx, I really don't know, she obviously wants money, that's a given, but the whole thing about the baby can't just be forgotten either, Kyrie is really dangerous when it comes to family 'love'
thx for the discussion, I gotta leave
bye!

>>4389669
It was VERY frequent. Just newfags that weren't on pre-split /a/ wouldn't know this.

>>4389682
Only EP5 does Krauss & Kyrie have no links at all, which is when strangely enough he's kidnapped (was this the plan all along which explains Natsuhi movements in EP1?).
In Ep6 Kyrie is found in Krauss study

>>4389689
Pre-split /a/ had too many fucking topics and I did not care for Type Moon at that point.
Since /jp/ was established, Shiki vs Gil was never the main focus. Also, the jump of two year old trolls to current Umineko theory fanbase seems weird.

Umineko has three ways it can end:

1) Fanbase: OH GOD RYUKISHI WE FUCKING LOVE YOU LET US SUCK YOUR COCK OMG SO GOOD
2) Fanbase: Meh...
3) Fanbase: FUCK YOU RYUKISHI YOU MOTHERFUCKING TROLL FFFUUU I WILL NEVER READ ANYTHING BY YOU AGAIN RAAAGE!!!

1 and 3 are the most likely.

>>4389708
It's not a jump, but rather a slowly cumulating mass.

>>4389757

And after 3, they would still read.

>these threads

>>4389997
Better than Shkannontrice vs. Moon-chan.

>>4390047
It's a precarious situation. Theorycrafting is the only good thing about Umineko threads, and yet we've been intellectually pigeonholed into only a handful of theories, revolving around Jessica and Shannon. You'd figure by now someone would have found an out to them, but it seems the only thing we can hope for is Ryukishi fucking up the story yet again and adjusting the rules for some Shyamalan-like TWEEST.

Shipping threads can be pretty rageworthy, when you remember that Battler is so deeply in love with this woman who, based on the Umineko timeline, he's talked to for less than thirty days, probably two weeks at best. And then you have to remember he was just raging at her for the brunt of EP2, so that's not exactly romantic development.

>>4390047
Except not.

This was just a stupid thread of ''i like this series, leave it alone'' X ''LOLOLYOURFAVORITEVNSUX''.

What a waste of time.

>>4390301
> It's a precarious situation. Theorycrafting is the only good thing about Umineko threads, and yet we've been intellectually pigeonholed into only a handful of theories, revolving around Jessica and Shannon. You'd figure by now someone would have found an out to them, but it seems the only thing we can hope for is Ryukishi fucking up the story yet again and adjusting the rules for some Shyamalan-like TWEEST.
Last night we had a thread and came up with a theory that had Shannon and Kanon being different people, but still allowed for Kanon to rescue Battler in EP6 and allows for the possibility of Kanontrice (it basically involves Kanon inheriting Kinzo's name, as Battler speculated about at the end of EP4, and thus being exempted from the "everyone else" red text in EP6, because Erika requested that Battler exclude Kinzo from the text after Battler refused to state that everyone else was in the other room on the basis that Kinzo's corpse wasn't in there). Admittedly, most of the stuff in EP6 points towards Shkanon, but if it ends up being false, then Kanontrice, plus Kanon = Kinzo, is the most likely situation.

> Shipping threads can be pretty rageworthy, when you remember that Battler is so deeply in love with this woman who, based on the Umineko timeline, he's talked to for less than thirty days, probably two weeks at best. And then you have to remember he was just raging at her for the brunt of EP2, so that's not exactly romantic development.
Do keep in mind that Beatrice is Battler's ideal, both physically and mentally (and no wonder, considering she was created to be his ideal), so it's pretty easy to understand why he'd fall for her like that.

>>4390301
>based on the Umineko timeline, he's talked to for less than thirty days

What? Where'd you get this from?

>>4390370
Interesting, where does the 16 people fit in then?

I would think that considering Battler already unequivocally defeated Erika, he wouldn't troll her at the end there by "lying" about the true amount of people. Ryukishi is an asshole though, so I can see it, I just hope it's not.

>based on the Umineko timeline, he's talked to for less than thirty days.
In reality, there's some Meta-world's slice of life between the games; it's just that R07 cuts most of that stuff (we have the GAME MASTER BATTLER tips and EP4's Beelzebub&Battler scene as reference).

>>4390406
Well, uh, about that... Erika actually said the game ended after she'd entered the guest room, so it's entirely possible that her piece form was no longer considered to exist, as Bernkastel had stated that Erika would have only one more chance and may have been limited to being a meta character after that point if she'd survived. And the red text stated at the end of Episode 6 doesn't say "including you", it says "even if we welcome you".

http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Text#Dawn_of_the_Golden_Witch
# The game ended when I entered the guest room, so I never unset the chain lock after I set it. Therefore, someone following me out of the room after I left doesn't work. Also, I set the chain lock at the same time I entered the room. It is impossible for someone to have left the room in the few seconds between when I entered and when I set the chain.
# The only chance Battler had to escape was after I broke the seal. Limiting it further, he had no chance to escape except during the period when I was in the bathroom.
# Kanon does not exist inside the bedroom.
# Kanon does not exist inside the guest room. ...Naturally this includes the closet, the bedroom, and the bathroom in their entirety.
# Nice to meet you, hello! I am Furudo Erika, a detective!! I may be an uninvited guest, but please welcome me!! I am the visitor, the eighteenth human on Rokkenjima!!
# [We're very sorry, but] even if we welcome you, the number of people is seventeen.

>>4390422
It still doesn't seem to be much time, though.
At the beginning of episode 3 (when the stakes are torturing him) Battler still hasn't thought of any new explanations.

>>4390443
You cant forget that their time is endless.
Beato could mess with Battler for years without a new game, and Lambda wouldnt give a fuck.

>>4390443
Maybe because he's too busy being distracted by the big butt nee-chans to care.

>>4390422
Well, offscreen romantic development between the main characters is an unforgivable sin for a writer, but I suppose it could be longer than one month in total time.

>>4390471
COunting Meta world infinite timeline for relationship development we are not shown is fucking cheap.

>>4390479
>infinite timeline for relationship development
>deveopment
Key word, doesn't count if nothing DEVELOPS.

Even so, when battler found out the truth he discovered everything about who Beato really is and why she did everything.

If this story is as sad as it seems to be, it would lead Battler to see Beato in a new different light, and even fall in love more and more

It's not an infinite timeline but it's longer than thirty-odd days.

At the very least some time passes between EP4 and 5. That on its own could be thirty days.

>>4390474
The whole point of the torture was to force Battler to think about new things, so...
Battler really is incompetent.

>>4390497
True dat.
So, either no development that we missed which leads to BIG JUMP, or it was skipped while enabled by cheap mechanics.

>>4390504
Poor Rosa....

>>4390440
That's one translation, not definitive.

I'd like some kind of reasoning for her suddenly not existing after the game ended.

I don't care what you fags think, I'm still sticking to Kanontrice. Shannon and Jessica are shitty love interests.

>>4390501
I have no problem with such a plot device causing him to love Beatrice, it works in this kind of story.

Even as someone who likes the BattlerxBeatrice relationship, the segue between the end of EP4 and the start of EP5 was pretty jarring.

I actually reopened EP4 again to wonder how they went from raging and throwing blue spears and red swords, to calmly sipping tea together. Then I just chalked it up to Ryukishi not mentioning how much time has elapsed since then, and moved on.

>>4390519
Kanon was irrevocably shitty until battlefield.ogg. Well, there was the duel too, where Shannon was a total bitch and Kanon looked better in comparison.

Jessica is also shit tier.

>>4390534
That's what I figured it was too.

It would be easy to determine how long the time gap was if Beato's wounds were healing by normal means and not ~magic~.

>>4390536
Kanon was never shitty. The reason being that Kanon is practically never developed.

>>4390534
Also, Lambda and Bern are the ones that get so bored of waiting Beato recover that start the new game.

Knowing them as the eternal witches that they are, that could've been taken a long time.

>>4390443

>>4390564
>Kanon was never shitty

Oh you.

>>4390594
We see those breaks.
They aren't that long.

>>4390512
No, the text is pretty definitive.
> 迎える むかえる (v1,vt) to go out to meet; to receive; to welcome; to accept (e.g. as a member of a group or family); to call for; to summon; to invite; to approach (a certain time, a point in one's life, etc.); (P)

>>4390536
The song's called "Battlefield", but the file name is actually SF09-sayu-01.ogg.

Guys, it's fiction. It's not that odd for someone to fall madly in love over the course of 30 days.

>>4390635
Not seeing the development and having to accept the result for the story to 'make sense' is the problem.

>>4390646
We did see the development.

>>4390628
Some extra tips want to have a word with you.
Even if they exist for comic relief, they are canon.

>>4390598
And if you had read, you'd realize Shannon was the one who dress Kanon up like that.

>>4390628
We don't see every break. We also don't see the time they all would spend sleeping, bathing, eating, and other mundane things.

We also don't see the breaks Lambda and Bern take to fuck.

>>4390655
Sure, we did.
Justifies the end result perfectly.

I honestly don't give a shit about what happened off-screen.

I know that on screen I had two people having way too much fun with each other to just be enemies.

>>4390667
Because Kanon is actually a girl, and Shannon was worried that someone might notice. (This can be true even if Shkanon is not the case.)

>>4390657
I know about the extra tips, but:
>When Beato and I were playing
When says that "when Beato and I were playing", I assume he means "when he and Beato were playing the game".
Of course, the tips don't take place during the games.

>>4390669
>We also don't see the breaks Lambda and Bern take to fuck.
THIS.

>>4390667
That doesn't change much when you take into account that Shannon = Kanon.

>>4390674
Yeah. Beato became someone Battler loves, respects, and considers an equal. Makes sense to me.

>>4390680
Pretty much, but it also shows how shitty Shannon's taste is, not Kanon's.

>>4390684
And it'd be often, since Lambda wants to prolong the game.

>>4390691
Too fucking big an assumption for LOVE , bro.

>>4390669
The breaks we see IN THE MIDDLE of the games? Sure, we see all of them.
Do you think that Evatrice will stop her killing spree just so Battler and Beato can haver their romantic development?

>>4390702
Not really. You could tell by the way he acted in EP3 and EP4 that he felt something for her, even thought it was totally subconscious.

>>4390704
Even Evatrice has to sleep.

>>4390687
That isn't guaranteed, we've been through this same exact crap before and Ryu07 will just goes "lol, I troll you!".

>>4390698
>>4390669
I like this theory.

>>4390719
The problem is (at least for me), that it seemed more like compassion for your enemy, rather than love.

>>4390719
'Something not negative' -> justifies later episodes is a big jump regardless.

>>4390738
>>4390737
I dunno, "my Golden Witch" seemed a bit much for just thinking of her as a rival.

>>4390737
> The problem is (at least for me), that it seemed more like compassion for your enemy, rather than love.
Dude, Battler fell for Beato HARD in Episode 3. Remember how hurt he was after the troll?

Still no love for the pieces.

>>4390767
>Remember how hurt he was after the troll?
Eh... No?

>>4390766
And then they cut it out of the anime.

You're bringing back DEEN memories.

>>4390777
Um... go read the very beginning of Episode 4 again, when Battler talks to Beatrice. He doesn't shout about it or anything, but you can tell that it really hurt him.

>>4390777
"Don't do it again."
"What's the big deal?"
"Don't do it again."
"I can't make any promises."
"Don't do it again."
"......uh, okay."

>>4390767
>>4390795
>>4390799
Cause being DECEIVED when you are about to trust someone is 100 WUV WUV.

I wonder if we will see another ANGE again in EP7.

>>4390795
Not to mention the whole "UOOOH HOW COULD YOU TRICK ME LIKE THAT BEATO" immediately after in Ep3.

>>4390766
Not really.
Don't you know of all that crap that usually appears in fiction where the rivals are obsessed about how they are the only ones allowed to defeat each other?

>>4390815
Only in Japanese fiction

Basically the problem is that the hints and development were all there, but everyone who doesn't like the pairing is determined the interpret them in a platonic way.

Well of course you'd find it sudden that way.

>>4390799
Yeah and right after that, Battler says:
"There were times in this game when I thought we could understand each other, but I see it clear now. She is my enemy and I will never misunderstand that again."

Maybe it's just Battler trying to fool himself, but still, man.

>>4390815
Hell, that dynamic is still around with their relationship, all that crap about LOL I'M THE ONLY ONE ALLOWED TO SOLVE THE MYSTERY, DOESN'T MATTER IF SOMEONE ELSE CAN DO IT QUICKER THAN ME AND SAVE EVERYONE, IT'S MINE MINE MINE.

Only reason it works out in the end is because Ryukishi has to make loathsome detective characters that cannot figure out the truth.

>>4390823
And this is...?

>>4390814
To be fair, anyone would be angry if they were deceived to that point.

>>4390836
>Maybe it's just Battler trying to fool himself

That's what he did all throughout EP5.

"We're totally rivals."
"You're feeding her tea."
"Out of a sense of rivalry."
"You have a bond of trust with her."
"Because we're rivals."
"You're wiping the sweat off her brow."
"Rivals do that shit all the time, right?"

>>4390836
>She is my enemy and I will never misunderstand that again.
And yet he still obviously felt pity for her at the end of Ep4 Tea Party despite everything and even hugged her.

>>4390809
Take a look at Kyrie and Rudolf's relationship. He slept behind her back and she still loves him, because she knows he's really a good guy inside.

>>4390864
They always live and die together too.

>>4390864
Actually, it's because he is Jack Bauer.

>>4390864
A really good guy that fucks two women together and decides who to marry depending on who pops out the bastard faster.
A healthy relationship.

>>4390833
It's hard to like a pairing that is shoved in your face and extremely convoluted. It made the jump from enemy to "I will die without you" in the order of one damn episode.
Before you start spouting "but all the hints were there! You just had to think between the lines!", if I'm reading a god damn story, and not seeing anything animated, it better be fucking written for me. I can't make any jumps that the author hasn't told me, because it could be completely wrong. I can't just make up my own story when there's one already there.

Leaving aside all of this, I still wonder how Battler can fall in love with a complete monster who claims to be torturing and killing him and his family.

>>4390864
He killed Asumu i bet.

>>4390896
Oh hi there Ange.

>>4390893
So basically you need everything spelled out for you in black and white terms to see it.

Fine, but that's your own problem, not Ryukishi's.

>>4390836
>Maybe it's just Battler trying to fool himself
He starts trying to fool himself in EP3 and doesn't stop until the end of EP5.

>>4390905
Of course it is his problem.
Setting the bare minimum of possible indications that prove nothing to what we have now is not good presentation, no matter what.
Part of the 'cannot write romance for shit' package.

>>4390905
I'm sorry, did you miss the part where 07 forgot to show us any kind of development between Battler and Beatrice, beside the "UR MY RIVAL/UR DEAD NOW I LOVE U" part?

>>4390896
Yeah, even if she is his ideal, I'd be a little put off with someone happily claiming she slaughtered everyone, unless she was bad at acting.

I think my gripe is that Ryukishi doesn't understand how to properly continue a plot event. It's fine for Battler to fall in love with Beatrice, I expected that shit from the end of EP1, but make it flow a little more naturally.

It's fine for Beatrice to be revived, I also was expecting that, but draw it out a little goddamn longer than one episode.

Best couple.

>>4390892
Actually that's not really how it happened at all.

According to EP 6, Kyrie and Rudolf were dating for a long while. She was trying to change him and get him out of the player lifestyle, but was too arrogant. She even says that she was very business orientated and feels that Rudolf couldn't relax around her as much as he said he could.

He gets them pregnant around the same time, but Asumu tells him first (Kyrie was afraid of ruining their relationship, since she didn't think he would want a child) and he gets engaged to her before Kyrie tells him about her pregnancy. However, it's clear he favored Kyrie over Asumu in the end - he was always by her side and helping her, even though he should have been taking care of Asumu, the woman he made an obligation to.

Even though Kyrie is a yandere, she isn't a complete idiot. If she didn't have a good reason to be with Rudolf there would be no way she would stick around for 12 years.

My only gripe with their romance is that it presents a chance for them to be all gushy over each other and I don't want that. I like cackling, trolling Beato more (which is why I was glad she got revived so quickly, don't really care for Deretrice).

>>4390952
I just can't get over the shit Rudolf must of pulled with the "Asumu is not my birth mother" issue.

I wouldn't have had a problem with any of this shipping if Beato had stayed dead for a while longer.

That's not how you fucking revive a character, Ryu.

>>4390971
> I like cackling, trolling Beato more
Luckily, Battler does too.

>>4390952
I thought Kyrie didn't realise she was pregnant for several months and that's why she didn't tell Rudolf first.

This is how it went for me regarding Beatrice and Battler's relationship:

EP2 = enemies to death, explicit sexual tension and delicious hatesex.
EP3 = Battler warms up to Beato thanks to her deredere side, and even treats her like a good friend. Then, DAT END. He's dissapointed, mad. Battler grieves for a while before forgiving Beato and with the game anew, he renewed his inner 'enemy' status.
EP4 = Battler's pretty much against Beato, but not as seriously as Ange wishes. Yet, with her sacrifice; he's in a convoluted state, raging till his limits. An unbreakable resolution to end the game possesses him. Beato takes advantage of his emotional side so he can finish her quicker. Near the end, he pities her deplorable state and wants to end her life in the most delicate/soft way.
EP5 = between his compassion for Beato and his goal, Battler reaches the ultimate truth. He gets to know the true side of Beato and the rules gameboard. Battler feels guilty for being incompetent and truly misses her. He realizes what she meant to him and wants to return their game no matter what; kicking some asses in the process.
EP6 = you already know all the romantic stuff.

>>4390989
I know, I hope she stays that way.

>>4390990
She found out a bit later than Asumu, yes, but she still held off on telling him after that. She was afraid of ruining their relationship, in both business and love.

Asumu just goes and blurts it right out.

>>4390991
EP1: fuck yeah they are rivals.
EP2: Holy shit they totally want to fuck each other.
EP3: FFFF MOEBLOB
EP4: ;_; Beato
EP5: ;___; Beatoooo
EP6: ;_________; BATTLERRR

>>4390991
Problem is, realization is offscreen cause it's part of the BIG reveal.
Which makes this progress stupid.

>>4390971
They're still like that. Their giant goodbye roleplaying scene in EP6 was pretty much Beato trolling him and going, "LOL I'M DEAD FOREVER SUCKS TO BE YOU CAUSE I WAS SUCH A GOOD WOMAN"

>>4391013
THAT BITCH.
HOW DARE SHE.

>>4391022
Ryukishi could still write them gushing all over each other though and that's just not cool.

>>4391020
> Problem is, realization is offscreen cause it's part of the BIG reveal.
We don't get told what Battler's realization is, but we DO see him coming to it, and what his reaction to that realization is. (it's_funny_because_it's_true.jpg and all.)

>>4391028
I don't trust everything Kyrie says when it comes to Asumu, she talks like a bitter ex.

>>4391028
Guess what? EP6 reveals that Asumu's fear of vehicles was faked.

/r/ all theories since December 30

>>4391076
How could you spoil the biggest secret of EP6?

>>4391047
Slight change of topic, but why is that artist so awesome?

>>4391069
She's not the most reliable perspective, but at the same time she has no reason to lie in narration or to Jessica at that time. Not to mention that her actions are most likely being slightly manipulated by Battler, for the purpose of storytelling (considering it is a fantasy scene) and I see no reason for her to make up lies about how the actual events occurred. What she says about Asumu herself is obviously going to be bias, but as far as giving general facts it doesn't make sense for her to lie.

>>4391076
Why, was she trying to be a moeblob?

>>4391076
Well we don't know if that's completely true or not, but if it is then damn.

>>4391104
Because s/he needed something to compensate for the amount of brocon that the Episode 4 manga contains.

>>4391113
Kyrie said that Rudolf liked the type of girl he could defend like a prince, to show off that manly side of him. Asumu probably faked it so Rudolf could comfort her more.

>>4391122
Seriously, what the fuck.

Also, why don't the manga series include the Ura tea parties?

>>4391113
Pretty much, she did it so it would stimulate Rudolf's manly white knight mode.

>>4391112
Like you said, she is not lying but she is biased. Just like that fear of Asumu how exactly did she find out it was a lie?
Asumu rubbed it in her face? One person reminds me of Kyrie, Kasumi she speaks about Kyrie the same way she speaks about Asumu (yet never mentions her sister).

>>4391113
More evidence for Rifyu = Ryukishi07!

>>4391122
Nothing wrong with a side of brocon.

>>4391133
> Also, why don't the manga series include the Ura tea parties?
I don't know, but I still "wut"ed a little when the first chapter of the EP4 manga cut out Bernkastel.

>>4391144
>Like you said, she is not lying but she is biased. Just like that fear of Asumu how exactly did she find out it was a lie?

She was keeping tabs on the women Rudolf would associate himself with. Heck for a while Rudolf couldn't even remember Asumu's name, but Kyrie knew most of the inside things about her (Asumu).

inb4 the Asumu = Hachijou Touya theory

Hail KoG, king of /jp/

>>4391173
Kyrie is such a yandere.

>>4391153
Her scene with Ange was given again in a small flashback in one of the most recent EP 4 manga chapter's.

>>4391149
I disagree, the brocon Ange stereotype is one of the worst things to come out of the fandom.

>>4390893
So, what you're saying is that you're too stupid to pick up on subtext?

>>4391189
THIS.

>>4391189
>>4391189
>>4391189
>>4391189
So very true.

>>4391189
Agreed. I'm so glad it's mostly disappeared and Japan has flocked to Ange/Amakusa and a Beato/Battler/Erika love triangle instead.

I hate Erika --> Battler, but it's still better than brocon Ange.

>>4391189
Even the goddamn anime lampshaded the whole thing, what with the episode 20 preview and making it seem like Ange was being a brocon, but then turned out to just be reading a script given to her by Bernkastel.

...Then again, the previews were better than the anime itself.

>>4391173
Looking to hard i think, i stand by "she was an ok woman involved in a bad relationship" until we hear from an Asumu.

>>4391189
I like brocon Ange, stakecon Ange, cousincon Ange...

Well, I just like Ange period. I don't really hate anything people ship, I just hate it when people start getting venomous when you insult their ~*~OTP~*~

>>4391212
She said she was keeping tabs on the women to Jessica, just to make sure she was the best woman out of all of Rudolf's harem. No reason for her to lie.

I do hope we get a Rudolf-Asumu-Kyrie arc at least however - we still need to hear Rudolf's side of it all and get answers on the baby switching.

>>4391199
>>4391203
>>4391209
>>4391211
Also, /jp/ used to love brocon Ange. I wonder if this is /a/'s influence, or if you guys were just quiet about it.

>>4391234
>we still need to hear Rudolf's side of it all and get answers on the baby switching.
I want this explained badly, i just cannot imagine how that could happen.

>>4391237
It became a lot easier to speak up about this type of stuff after EP5 came out.

>>4391221
>stakecon Ange

FUCK YEAR

>shipping thread
I missed these.

>>4391237
I am certain most of the people are /a/ frequenters.

/jp/ doesn't bother with petty bullshit like story and character canon, incest is wincest, so Ange is a brocon.

>>4391252
Protip: it didn't happen.
There is no reason for it to happen, nothing to hint that it could happen, Rudolf himself doesn't seem to be such a bastard and Kyrie obviously doesn't think that Battler is her son.

It's just a troll from Ryuukishi and only mean 1 thing:
The Battler from the meta-world and the real Battler are 2 different persons.
Battler from the meta-world is the son of Kyrie and Rudolf, real Battler is the son of Asumu.

>>4391286
"Most" is the keyword here. I hardly ever go to /a/ but frequent /jp/, and I've never liked brocon Ange.

Unless you count Ange/Amakusa as brocon. Ange/Mammon is the best pairing involving Ange, though. Delicious delusions.

>>4391304
So... meta Battler is dead baby Battler & piece Battler is well Battler?

>>4391304
>Battler from the meta-world is the son of Kyrie and Rudolf, real Battler is the son of Asumu.

That really makes no sense, even for Ryukishi standards. So Battler died and suddenly Kyrie is his mother and not Asumu.

>>4391325
Or meta-Battler just symbolizes someone who doesn't look like Battler at all, like Beatrice.
Someone who want to be him, if Beatrice symbolizes both the love that the true "Beatrice" have for Battler and the legend of the witch, meta Battler could symbolize the knight that protect the family and can kill the witch.

>>4391369
>meta Battler could symbolize the knight that protect the family
Obvious Kinzo ghost.

>>4391319
Ange/Mammon is okay, but if it's yuri you want, Ange/Maria is clearly the superior choice. It's a shame there isn't much of that.

>>4391369
I'm sort of following, but i'm getting lost.

>>4391408
Clearly this is the best yuri.

>>4391286
>/jp/ doesn't bother with petty bullshit like story and character canon

Yeah, that sounds just about right.

>>4391332
No, just saying that the Battler of the meta-world isn't the real Battler at all, from the beginning.
Real Battler is the son of Asumu, meta Battler is the son of Kyrie.
For example, meta Battler could be the man of "19 years ago".

I find it really strange that we never see anything from the past of Rudolf, Kyrie or Battler.
We see the past of George and Jessica, both from ShKanon POV.
We see the past Natsuhi, was witnessed by Shannon and Kanon as well.
We see Maria and Rosa, from a diary.
And Eva survived and could have told about her past or written about it.

If you take the ShKanontrice theory, all of this could have been known from her/him.
So it would be normal that the other characters wouldn't have a flashback.
And meta Battler himself never talk about his life, past or anything like this.
The only correlation between real Battler and meta Battler is the fact that they look and act the same, if you think about what the meta-world and Beatrice really are, you would see that it's not enough.

>>4391478
Well, I meant with regards to Ange.

I'm at a loss on Erika/Dlanor, because I fuck yeah'd when Dlanor was like "she pisses me off TOO" and I felt like Dlanor was such a bro, but then EP6 made her into Erika's bro...

But anyway, I'd say Bern/Lambda is better than Erika/Dlanor. Eva/Natsuhi would be hotter with delicious hatesex, but Natsuhi is a pure and faithful waifu. Not that I'd complain if I found a doujin.

>>4391557
Dlanor is a bro, yeah. That's why Lambda and Ange are better, even if Dlanor and Erika are nice to look at.

What the fuck are you talking about? How can Ange not be a Brocon, come on? Have you guys even played the tea party of EP4?
BAWW so lonely oniichan != Brocon?

>>4391478
That's not Lambda and Bern.

>>4391589
Well, she barely got to interact with Battler in the grand scheme of things. I think it's cute, but if you're the shipping type it's easy to pair her with Mammon or Amakusa. Although I don't think she'd die for either of them unless you count Amakusa sniping her dohoho.

Actually, when she visits Rokkenjima, she says she wants to settle things with Maria before even Battler or her parents.

>>4391593
>>4391478
The only way to settle this is a foursome between Dlanor, Erika, Lambda and Bern, of course.

>>4391698

>>4391711
Your post has made me realize that Gertrude and Cornelia should be involved as well.

>>4391504
But Meta Battler obviously believes himself to be the son of Asumu, meaning he remembers Asumu as his mother.

>>4391721
Cornelia is too pure and innocent

>>4391589

Because he was there and was lonely. I bet she wanted to really bring back Maria.

>>4391741
Rape saves the day once again!

>>4391589
Because every time she talks about her family she always puts her parents first?

>>4391767
no ;_;

>>4391711
Boy, that face looks familiar.

>>4391209

Erika/Battler/Beato is pretty weak sauce. Most seem to have moved on to Erika/Dlanor. Sucks since I don't like Erika, but love Dlanor.

>>4391775
I see your "no" and change it to YAMETEEEEE~ IT HURTS, ERIKA

>>4391589
What does someone whose family is dead being lonely have to do with wanting to fuck her brother?

>>4391816
Nothing.

Ange isn't a brocon, Ryu agreed, don't bother him about it, etc.

I refuse to believe all of the brocon angefags in japan just gave up their dream though. They are just hiding atm.

Best pairing.

>>4391798
Those people are just as bad, it's very clear to anyone not wearing yuri goggles that the Dlanor thing is friend zone shit.

>>4391886

That was never funny

>>4391798
I've seen quite a bit of ERIKA IS IN ~LUV~ WITH BATTLER shit. Maybe it's mostly just on Nicovideo, though. They love Battler/Lucifer over there, too.

>>4391910
AAAGH THAT VIDEO

I AM NOW DEAD

>>4391899
"I love you."

>>4391910
Battler/Lucifer is cute too.

>>4391910

Ah, I was judging by fanart. Poor Luci-nee. She's pretty much at the bottom of the barrel nowadays.

>>4391942

That fanart always made me laugh since it makes her seem somewhat important

>>4391944
Yeah, a lot of people upload their fanfiction to Nicovideo in game format with sprites, music, etc. There's more Battler/Lucifer there than anything else, though I think it's pretty much all by the same guy. I've seen three people upload Beato/Battler, and I think two upload Erika/Battler.

>>4391816
oh really? then why did she come to Battler of all people? why do you think meta Ange is so pissed about Battler "playing" with some women in a trolling game? why did Ange die again? because she just had to say in red that Battler is indeed her brother.
she is sexually frustrated that's why.

>>4391964
She was LOYALTY tier in EP6 at least.

>>4391942
Shame there's not that much of it compared to other pairings.

>>4391977
But that would also imply Beato/Lucifer since that's who she was really being loyal to in that scene.

I am okay with this.

>>4391980
>Page022.jpg

Is there more of that?

>>4392000
Well, that was in reference to the 'importance' thing more than anything.

I don't think I've ever seen Beato/Lucifer. Somebody should rectify this immediately.

Is it time for a new thread?

>>4392024
No. Not until the thread dies or the image limit is reached, at least.

>>4391976
>why do you think meta Ange is so pissed about Battler "playing" with some women in a trolling game?
...Because he isn't being serious about trying to get their family back, thus condemning her to a lonely life in every fragment?

>>4392024
Sure. You wanna start one?

>>4392023

Stakes/Beato wasn't ever that developed. Kind of sucks since I think they'd have lots of fun together.

>>4391976
Ange is fucking Amakusa.

She's doing pretty well on the sex front.

>>4392039
If everyone else is up for it. I'm getting mixed messages.

>>4392049
That's true, though there was a bit in EP6. When they were all freaking out over what a failure of a husband Battler is how they felt sorry for Beatrice, and when they decided to help her when she crashed the wedding.

>>4392006
It's just a single page near the end of a doujin that's mainly seems to be about Erika getting bullied and Dlanor being a bro.

>>4392049
That's what doujins are for, right? And fanart, right?

At least they get plenty of love in the TIPs.

>>4391980
Post that bit from the latest TIP!

>>4391859
Yeah, crack pairings has never stopped anyone else, I'm sure the Angebros are just waiting until she meets up with Battler again.

>>4392093
"The six younger sisters are fine~ But I sure owe Lucifer for EP3~ You gouged me so many times with that stake of yours, grinding grinding, grinding grinding grinding! Aah, just remembering it pisses me off!"
"Ahh, in that caaase, I think this time Battler-sama should gouge into Luci-nee instead."
"I think that's a great idea! Until Battler-sama feels satisfied, I think he should bully her all night loong!"
"Wh...What are you guys talking about?! H-Hey, let go of me!"
"Oh, I know, Lucifer-onee-sama. Your back is your weak spot, right...?"
"Wai... L-Levia?! H-How do you know that?!"
"Everyone knows your weak points! You were the only one who thought we didn't know, weren't you?! You're too careless, onee-sama!"
"Hoh-hoh-hoh-hoh, so her back is her weak spot, is it, hoh-hoh-hoh-hoh!"
"St-Stop! Do you think I'll surrender if you do that?! Do you really think I'll cry and beg for forgiveness?!"
"Ah, shut up, shut up! Know my grudge from that day you tortured me by grinding and gouging into me! Is it around here? Around here? Take that, there, there, there!"
"Ahhiiiiiiiiiiiii!"
"Or is it around here?!"
"Ahaaaaa! Noooooo, please forgive me, Battler-samaaaaaaaa, auaaaaaaa!"
He finally got the chance for revenge he never had in the original story. Battler complacently ground against Lucifer's back...

New thread

>>4392111

If it becomes a shitstorm, we can just move back here.

>>4392104
"How do you feel, Battler-sama? Are you refreshed?"
"Yeah, I feel great... My long-standing grudge has been totally cleared up, and I feel all fresh, like I've finally shed my skin!"

Lucifer's shoulders heaved as she caught her breath. She had collapsed with her clothes in disarray, and it looked very much like the aftermath of something.
...It was a bit obscene.

"Soo, does that mean you'll give us all a part now...?"
"Sure! I've resolved all of my grudges! Don't worry, your screentime is secure! Uhahahahahahaha!"
"Then I want a scene where I meet a handsome prince!"
"I want a role where I eat lots of food!"
"I don't need any big scenes, but make sure I'm in the 7th game, too!"
"I would like to fight against a formidable enemy, and fall beautifully in battle."
"Hey, hey, you guys! If you ask for all that at once, Battler-sama's going to get confused! Write your requests on paper before giving them to him!"
"...I...I'm...fine with any kind of minor role... ...I won't defy you again...so could I...have a part..."
"What are you talking about? Luci-nee, you've always been the one to stand out the most! I'm jealous, aah, I'm jealous!"
"Wahahahahaha! The Game Master is God, after all! I'll grant any request you have! You're all safe now! Oh, someone else is here. Could it be the Siesta Sisters this time? Or maybe Dlanor's group? Come to think of it, Ange, you've got some nerve, not coming to greet me when you're my own little sister! I've already received a full-body massage from the Seven Sisters. Maybe I'll have the Siesta Sisters wipe the sweat off my brow with their tails~? I wonder what I'll get from Dlanor? Uhyahyahyahaaaaa!"

HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG